[05:52] good morning [07:00] morning [08:59] hello [14:10] hi all [14:59] * inetpro thinking about web developer access to web server file systems [14:59] since FTP should die, how do you handle access to web server resources for web developers? [15:08] sftp (i.e. ssh) [15:08] or webdav, possibly. More stuff supports it [15:35] tumbleweed: samba? [15:35] I wouldn't be too comfortable with running a samba on the public internet [15:36] tumbleweed: no, not on the public side [15:37] that's fine then [15:37] of course you may be happier with a deployment system where they don't have direct access to the webroots, but rather have to commit to a repo [15:38] tumbleweed: now that sounds like the right thing to do [15:38] but web devs want immediate results [15:39] give them a staging server too :) [15:39] where all their commits are published immediately [15:39] tumbleweed: how? [15:40] cronjob that pulls from the repo? [15:40] immediately? [15:40] you can achieve almost-immediately with a commit hook [15:41] ok, when you say commit, what would you use for that? [15:41] a VCS [15:42] hmm... [15:42] let me ponder about this [15:43] our web devs are still on Windows [15:43] almost all the populer VCSs work perfectly on windows (even if windows is a horrible environment for development :P ) [15:44] ok, and what VCS would you suggest? [15:44] one they can get along with. These days that's probably svn or git [15:44] I'd avoid svn and go for something distributed, but that can be more copmlex to use [15:45] inetpro: but you need to spend some time getting familiar with VCSs before you can make other people use them :) [15:47] tumbleweed: I have used cvs, svn and a bit of bzr [15:47] just the users have never used it, at least not that I know of [15:48] aah, that's not so bad then [15:49] the reason I'm pondering about it is because I need to think about allowing more than a single developer on sites like drupal [15:51] want to work out a practicable solution that will keep us going for some time [15:51] traditionally we've had a lot of sites with simple static info, which is easy to manage [15:58] bzr [15:58] git is overcomplicated [16:00] ok let's think for the moment about the production side first, assume that the dev environment is sorted and version controlled [16:00] would you use rsync to sync it all? [16:01] to sync to production* [16:03] would you agree that production does not need a VCS [16:03] ? [16:06] inetpro: we actually just do an update from svn [16:06] superfly: please explain [16:07] inetpro: we type in "svn up" [16:07] superfly: you mean directly to a production system? [16:07] yes [16:07] hmm... [16:08] is it a critical production system? [16:09] we have a VCS and deployment strategy in place to prevent untested code from getting onto the live servers [16:10] i'm thinking more of an update failing halfway [16:11] marcog: we're deploying python apps... if the svn up falls over, the deployment won't continue [16:12] ah ok [16:12] it doesn't sound like this is incredibly critical if the devs can currently write directly to the webroot [16:13] so you also don't want to suddendly jump into an overly-bureaucratic system [16:14] superfly: is bzr ok on windows? (are there decent gui bits). svn has the advantage of being built into many IDEs, which windows people seem to like [16:14] tumbleweed: Bzr Explorer works on Windows, and there's also TortoiseBzr (which I prefer if I'm on Windows) [16:15] marcog: non-SVN/CVS VCSs probably wont have the problem of updates failing half-way [16:15] i.e. update local repo first then update the checkout from that [16:17] tumbleweed: wasn't aware of that [16:17] although superfly mentioned they use svn [16:18] well if you have disk failure / permissions issues / local modifications, you could still get a partial update failure, I guess [18:11] corrie206, ping [20:44] superfly: Marble 1.0.0 now available in Maemo extras http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=295 [20:46] * superfly looks to see if he can install it [20:47] superfly: you still happy with your N900? [20:47] inetpro: I'm LOVING it [20:47] cool [20:47] it's the BEST phone I've ever had [20:50] * superfly installs Marble [20:52] superfly: Thanks to some clever detective work by the guys at NokiaPort, who unearthed the specs from a MeeGo bug report, it looks possible that the N9 will have a dual-core 1.6 GHz Intel Moorestown processor, a 200 MHz graphics unit that drives a 480×854 pixel display, 1 GB RAM and an Infineon 3G modem that supports HSPA+ speeds (21 Mbps downlink). [20:52] http://thenokian9blog.com/2011/02/04/is-this-nokias-iphone-killer/ [20:54] * inetpro can't wait to see that [20:54] word [20:55] inetpro: the N900 is Nokia's iPhone killer :-P just that they don't regard it as such [20:56] superfly: maybe next month I will decide what to get [21:01] night folks [21:04] good night superfly [21:06] superfly: g'dnight