[05:52] <inetpro> good morning
[07:00] <Morganvd> morning
[08:59] <kbmonkey> hello
[14:10] <Kilos> hi all
[14:59]  * inetpro thinking about web developer access to web server file systems
[14:59] <inetpro> since FTP should die, how do you handle access to web server resources for web developers?
[15:08] <tumbleweed> sftp (i.e. ssh)
[15:08] <tumbleweed> or webdav, possibly. More stuff supports it
[15:35] <inetpro> tumbleweed: samba?
[15:35] <tumbleweed> I wouldn't be too comfortable with running a samba on the public internet
[15:36] <inetpro> tumbleweed: no, not on the public side
[15:37] <tumbleweed> that's fine then
[15:37] <tumbleweed> of course you may be happier with a deployment system where they don't have direct access to the webroots, but rather have to commit to a repo
[15:38] <inetpro> tumbleweed: now that sounds like the right thing to do
[15:38] <inetpro> but web devs want immediate results
[15:39] <tumbleweed> give them a staging server too :)
[15:39] <tumbleweed> where all their commits are published immediately
[15:39] <inetpro> tumbleweed: how?
[15:40] <tumbleweed> cronjob that pulls from the repo?
[15:40] <inetpro> immediately?
[15:40] <tumbleweed> you can achieve almost-immediately with a commit hook
[15:41] <inetpro> ok, when you say commit, what would you use for that?
[15:41] <tumbleweed> a VCS
[15:42] <inetpro> hmm... 
[15:42] <inetpro> let me ponder about this
[15:43] <inetpro> our web devs are still on Windows
[15:43] <tumbleweed> almost all the populer VCSs work perfectly on windows (even if windows is a horrible environment for development :P )
[15:44] <inetpro> ok, and what VCS would you suggest?
[15:44] <tumbleweed> one they can get along with. These days that's probably svn or git
[15:44] <tumbleweed> I'd avoid svn and go for something distributed, but that can be more copmlex to use
[15:45] <tumbleweed> inetpro: but you need to spend some time getting familiar with VCSs before you can make other people use them :)
[15:47] <inetpro> tumbleweed: I have used cvs, svn and a bit of bzr
[15:47] <inetpro> just the users have never used it, at least not that I know of
[15:48] <tumbleweed> aah, that's not so bad then
[15:49] <inetpro> the reason I'm pondering about it is because I need to think about allowing more than a single developer on sites like drupal
[15:51] <inetpro> want to work out a practicable solution that will keep us going for some time
[15:51] <inetpro> traditionally we've had a lot of sites with simple static info, which is easy to manage
[15:58] <superfly> bzr
[15:58] <superfly> git is overcomplicated
[16:00] <inetpro> ok let's think for the moment about the production side first, assume that the dev environment is sorted and version controlled
[16:00] <inetpro> would you use rsync to sync it all?
[16:01] <inetpro> to sync to production*
[16:03] <inetpro> would you agree that production does not need a VCS
[16:03] <inetpro> ?
[16:06] <superfly> inetpro: we actually just do an update from svn
[16:06] <inetpro> superfly: please explain
[16:07] <superfly> inetpro: we type in "svn up"
[16:07] <inetpro> superfly: you mean directly to a production system?
[16:07] <superfly> yes
[16:07] <inetpro> hmm...
[16:08] <marcog> is it a critical production system?
[16:09] <superfly> we have a VCS and deployment strategy in place to prevent untested code from getting onto the live servers
[16:10] <marcog> i'm thinking more of an update failing halfway
[16:11] <superfly> marcog: we're deploying python apps... if the svn up falls over, the deployment won't continue
[16:12] <marcog> ah ok
[16:12] <tumbleweed> it doesn't sound like this is incredibly critical if the devs can currently write directly to the webroot
[16:13] <tumbleweed> so you also don't want to suddendly jump into an overly-bureaucratic system
[16:14] <tumbleweed> superfly: is bzr ok on windows? (are there decent gui bits). svn has the advantage of being built into many IDEs, which windows people seem to like
[16:14] <superfly> tumbleweed: Bzr Explorer works on Windows, and there's also TortoiseBzr (which I prefer if I'm on Windows)
[16:15] <tumbleweed> marcog: non-SVN/CVS VCSs probably wont have the problem of updates failing half-way
[16:15] <tumbleweed> i.e. update local repo first then update the checkout from that
[16:17] <marcog> tumbleweed: wasn't aware of that
[16:17] <marcog> although superfly mentioned they use svn
[16:18] <tumbleweed> well if you have disk failure / permissions issues / local modifications, you could still get a partial update failure, I guess
[18:11] <Kilos> corrie206, ping
[20:44] <inetpro> superfly: Marble 1.0.0 now available in Maemo extras http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=295
[20:46]  * superfly looks to see if he can install it
[20:47] <inetpro> superfly: you still happy with your N900?
[20:47] <superfly> inetpro: I'm LOVING it
[20:47] <inetpro> cool
[20:47] <superfly> it's the BEST phone I've ever had
[20:50]  * superfly installs Marble
[20:52] <inetpro> superfly: Thanks to some clever detective work by the guys at NokiaPort, who unearthed the specs from a MeeGo bug report, it looks possible that the N9 will have a dual-core 1.6 GHz Intel Moorestown processor, a 200 MHz graphics unit that drives a 480×854 pixel display, 1 GB RAM and an Infineon 3G modem that supports HSPA+ speeds (21 Mbps downlink). 
[20:52] <inetpro> http://thenokian9blog.com/2011/02/04/is-this-nokias-iphone-killer/
[20:54]  * inetpro can't wait to see that
[20:54] <superfly> word
[20:55] <superfly> inetpro: the N900 is Nokia's iPhone killer :-P just that they don't regard it as such
[20:56] <inetpro> superfly: maybe next month I will decide what to get
[21:01] <superfly> night folks
[21:04] <inetpro> good night superfly
[21:06] <deegee_> superfly: g'dnight