| Billg | Hello. I'm blind and I'm using ubuntu 10.10 (with orca/gnome) with vmware inside my windows 7. I'm using the orca screen reader with autologin (does not work at login screen). Anyway, I had to have someone else install my setup for me on windows 7. | 01:14 |
|---|---|---|
| Billg | I'm not sure if installation are very accessible, besides being new to the whole linux thing last semeseter. But I wanted to start trying out if I can help develop for ubuntu. The beginner websites that explain are not very helpful for a blind person. The testdrive explanations have pictures and tell you to click here, etc. | 01:17 |
| charlie-tca | Billg: the installer in 10.10 is not accessible. The installer in the development version, called Natty Narwhal, is being worked to make it accessible. | 01:22 |
| charlie-tca | Billg: we do have some information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility that will help. There is also a guide to installing with Orca, the screen reader, there. | 01:23 |
| Billg | so what is my best work around for now, for setting up current devel releases ? | 01:24 |
| Pendulum | Billg: as far as development goes, you might want to talk to TheMuso | 01:24 |
| charlie-tca | I usually test in VirtualBox, but for the current Natty, it won't work there yet for us. | 01:25 |
| Billg | how do i whisper or talk to someone privately? | 01:37 |
| JackyAlcine | Billg: enter /msg <nickname> <message> | 01:56 |
| hajour | JackyAlcine, is open mary already working? | 02:00 |
| JackyAlcine | It would, but I need Abhinva1's code to get audio output working. | 02:01 |
| hajour | i think Billg could use it , | 02:02 |
| hajour | if it is ready then we should say it to Billg | 02:03 |
| hajour | Billg, have you a webcam ? | 02:04 |
| hajour | JackyAlcine, if he have a webcam let him turn it to the monitor | 02:04 |
| hajour | so 1 off you can watch for Billg | 02:04 |
| JackyAlcine | Ah, but how would we stream his video to our client. | 02:05 |
| hajour | to install orca | 02:05 |
| JackyAlcine | hajour: He has Ocra installed. | 02:05 |
| hajour | i remember a other person who is helped that way | 02:05 |
| hajour | what have he need more then ? | 02:06 |
| hajour | i try to think to | 02:06 |
| hajour | to help | 02:06 |
| hajour | also Billg we have start working on a talking irc bot | 02:07 |
| hajour | if we can test it would you wanted to help with testing? | 02:08 |
| hajour | JackyAlcine, | 02:08 |
| hajour | have you Billg on skype or something? | 02:08 |
| JackyAlcine | the bots are highly experimental. | 02:09 |
| hajour | well he is blind it is mend for issues llike that | 02:09 |
| hajour | and he wanted to help | 02:09 |
| hajour | who can better say or it works then a person who is blind | 02:10 |
| hajour | can Billg hear now what iis in chat.or do you give it treu to him JackyAlcine ? | 02:11 |
| hajour | and this was 1 of the reasons i started speechcontrol | 02:20 |
| hajour | mhall119, | 02:21 |
| hajour | if speechcontrol is ready | 02:21 |
| hajour | can it then automatic install by the cd for to put unbuntu on a pc ? | 02:21 |
| hajour | we don't really help if they cant install it alone | 02:22 |
| JackyAlcine | For it be automatically installed with Ubuntu, hajour; we'd have to make the freeze date, and that's not possible. | 02:23 |
| hajour | in the next then? | 02:23 |
| hajour | i don't give easy up :P | 02:23 |
| hajour | but JackyAlcine have you read the rest to? | 02:24 |
| JackyAlcine | yup. | 02:24 |
| hajour | ok | 02:24 |
| hajour | i had doubt about that | 02:24 |
| JackyAlcine | Perhaps in 12.04+ | 02:24 |
| hajour | we go do our best | 02:25 |
| mhall119 | hajour: if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, you might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty | 04:06 |
| hajour | JackyAlcine, ^ read what mhall119 says | 04:49 |
| AlanBell | hajour: I did read your suggestion for classes, but I didn't really understand it, maybe put it on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org and we can edit it to reveal the meaning | 06:59 |
| JanC | hm, I just hear that Qt a11y depends on AT-SPI2 which is not finished and currently nobody has time or wants to spend money on it...? :-/ | 15:22 |
| fregl | JanC: where do you hear that? | 15:23 |
| JanC | from some KDE application developers | 15:25 |
| fregl | JanC: if it makes you feel better: currently there is no a11y support for qt apps | 15:25 |
| JanC | fregl: I know, that's what we were talking about | 15:26 |
| fregl | so who were you talking to? who else is involved there currently? | 15:26 |
| JanC | or, well, they say what Qt a11y there is is based on at-spi2 | 15:26 |
| JanC | and at-spi2 is not finished yet(?) | 15:27 |
| JanC | that's at-spiu over DBus instead of CORBA | 15:27 |
| * fregl currently looks at the qt-at-spi2 bridge... | 15:27 | |
| JanC | hm, it seems natty has at-spi2 ? | 15:28 |
| JanC | so maybe their info is outdated ;) | 15:28 |
| fregl | JanC: who were you talking to? | 15:28 |
| JanC | boud & some other guy involved with Krita | 15:30 |
| fregl | good, I'm currently trying to figure out the situation a bit | 15:31 |
| maco | nokia/trolltech (forget which) did at some point have in their press releases that there was at-spi support, but then one of the qt guys at nokia said at uds its not roadmapped and when i pointed out the press release said it must be wrong. maybe they have super-duper-basic support for just a few things and only in at-spi2? | 15:32 |
| fregl | maco: the press release is wrong. there is also no at-spi2 support. | 15:33 |
| fregl | so much for the bad side... | 15:33 |
| JanC | apparently one problem is/was at-spi is based on CORBA, and at-spi2 on DBus and as they already had DBus-support... | 15:33 |
| fregl | there is an attempt to create a qt at-spi 2 bridge | 15:33 |
| maco | fregl: who is doing that attempt? | 15:33 |
| fregl | the problem is that it's broken/unfinished | 15:34 |
| fregl | it got started 2 years ago by someone that I don't know and jpwhiting did some fixes on it later | 15:34 |
| fregl | http://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi | 15:35 |
| JanC | fregl: if I understand correctly it was working-with-bugs until the at-spi2 API changed | 15:35 |
| fregl | well, time to get it working for real | 15:35 |
| JanC | fregl: is Ubuntu actually using atspi2 in natty? | 15:37 |
| fregl | JanC: I have no clue. there are packages, I think TheMuso can tell you more. | 15:38 |
| JanC | I see both libatspi & libatspi2 are in the repositories, let's see if I can see something on a running system... ☺ | 15:39 |
| charlie-tca | at-spi2-core got into natty 7 days ago | 15:40 |
| JanC | bah, natty became very unstable recently... | 15:41 |
| fregl | JanC: for qt apps? nothing will work unless you build the bridge yourself | 15:43 |
| JanC | fregl: no, I mean whether Ubuntu uses atspi 1 or 2 for Gtk apps currently | 15:44 |
| fregl | by default atspi1, you can manually switch to atspi2 | 15:44 |
| JanC | atspi 1 will never work with Qt | 15:44 |
| fregl | correct | 15:45 |
| JanC | so they are more or less waiting on a stable atspi2 :-/ | 15:45 |
| JackyAlcine | Which won't happen any time soon. | 15:59 |
| JanC | JackyAlcine: you know more about that? | 16:03 |
| JanC | I mean, it would be sad if Qt/KDE developers want to implement a11y but are held back because atspi2 is delayed in GNOME ? :-/ | 16:06 |
| charlie-tca | But it would be really great to get a11y working well even in gnome | 16:08 |
| JackyAlcine | Compared to the a11y in KDE, GNOME's a11y is a gem. | 16:14 |
| charlie-tca | the real question is "does it really work well" | 16:18 |
| Billg | Hello... anyone here know a blind programmer or is one who develops for ubuntu? I'm looking for an easy way to get current devel releases without having to use a GUI. | 18:39 |
| AlanBell | hi Billg, TheMuso develops for ubuntu | 18:39 |
| AlanBell | best way to get the current devel release is probably install something that installs and upgrade | 18:40 |
| Billg | you know about any non-GUI apps that do that? the update-manager is not accessible | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | do-release-upgrade -d | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | I think | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | one sec . . . | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | yeah, that should work | 18:46 |
| maco | u-m not accessible? oh goody | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | but it is a cross fingers and toes and everything else operation | 18:47 |
| Pendulum | maco: It may be in Natty. Webkit is substantially better now than it was for Maverick | 18:47 |
| AlanBell | maco: that will be the gksudo problem | 18:47 |
| maco | gksudo problem? | 18:47 |
| maco | Pendulum: i didnt think there was any webkit in u-m, just in usc | 18:47 |
| AlanBell | orca runs as the user, update-manager runs as root | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | orca isn't allowed to see it | 18:48 |
| maco | doh | 18:48 |
| Pendulum | ah, AlanBell knows the actual answer :) | 18:48 |
| charlie-tca | yup | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | There was some discussion somewhere about fixing it, I only got as far as understanding the problem | 18:48 |
| charlie-tca | that is not limited to update-manager, either, is it? | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | no | 18:49 |
| maco | anything that uses policykit should be fine though right? | 18:49 |
| maco | like the users & groups thingy? | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | I think that is the solution, yse | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | yes | 18:49 |
| charlie-tca | anything that uses gksu is bad, as I recall | 18:49 |
| JanC | everything using gksu is also a security issue, but it's not always easy to port applications to policykit | 18:50 |
| Billg | update manager is partly accessible just not the part that lets you upgrade your version of ubuntu | 18:51 |
| JanC | that's probably a part of synaptic | 18:52 |
| JanC | or used by both | 18:52 |
| JanC | or is it just the dialog that warns about risks & shows what it will do etc.? | 18:56 |
| TheMuso | JanC: Likely the aprt thats running as root. | 21:07 |
| TheMuso | part | 21:07 |
| TheMuso | There are a few things put in place to make that work if you install Ubuntu using an accessibility profile. | 21:08 |
| hajour | <hajour> if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, we might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty. but we need some more help to do that | 21:25 |
| hajour | <hajour> open mary ^ | 21:25 |
| hajour | <hajour> a speak program for blind and people with issues | 21:25 |
| hajour | <hajour> we are looking still for C++ people who are familiar with Glibmm and Gstreamermm. | 21:25 |
| hajour | <hajour> and Python people should know PyGtk. | 21:25 |
| hajour | <hajour> 4 of each | 21:26 |
| hajour | <hajour> so who can help we would appreciate it | 21:26 |
| AlanBell | is it in debian? | 21:26 |
| hajour | ubuntu | 21:27 |
| hajour | uh?? | 21:27 |
| hajour | i dont understand the question complete AlanBell | 21:28 |
| AlanBell | it really needs to get into debian and then be synced into ubuntu from there | 21:28 |
| AlanBell | I don't think you will get a feature freeze exception for it | 21:28 |
| AlanBell | not my decision by any means | 21:28 |
| hajour | <mhall119> hajour: if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, you might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty | 21:29 |
| hajour | AlanBell, ^ | 21:29 |
| mhall119 | hajour: you'll have to talk to a motu about it | 21:29 |
| AlanBell | but the way to get stuff into ubuntu is to get it into debian first, unless it is an important unique part of Ubuntu | 21:29 |
| hajour | we have motu s in the team mhall119 | 21:30 |
| AlanBell | is it in a PPA? | 21:30 |
| hajour | we have still not a good working speech program AlanBell so i think it is important | 21:30 |
| mhall119 | I know I've gotten FFEs in the past because my packages didn't impact anything else | 21:30 |
| hajour | i have told the team what you said mhall119 | 21:31 |
| hajour | there are working really hard on it already | 21:31 |
| hajour | and we have just get 2 new people to | 21:31 |
| AlanBell | great | 21:32 |
| AlanBell | I do hope it gets in | 21:32 |
| hajour | jmarsden is packaging together with RainCT | 21:32 |
| hajour | jmarsden is the new person who this evening have offert his help | 21:33 |
| hajour | also duanedesign have offert his help | 21:33 |
| hajour | and Billg he want to help testing | 21:34 |
| erkan^ | wat betekent capsule papier, hajour ? | 21:35 |
| erkan^ | kan nergesn vinden | 21:35 |
| hajour | uhm ik weet even niet wat je bedoelt erkan^ :) | 21:36 |
| erkan^ | heb jij ook een email van hugo ontvangt? over tactiele view | 21:36 |
| hajour | ik heb me mail nog niet gelezen maar erkan dit is een engelse chat je mag me wel pm en ok? | 21:37 |
| AlanBell | I normally love to see conversations in other languages, but as some people will be following this channel with a screen reader it might be best to take that to -nl | 21:38 |
| erkan^ | pm is good too. i try write English too (-: hajour | 21:39 |
| erkan^ | Good evening AlanBell | 21:41 |
| erkan^ | I have wroten about Tactile View | 21:41 |
| erkan^ | I don 't know whhat is "capsule paper" | 21:41 |
| erkan^ | (-: | 21:41 |
| AlanBell | is that the thermal expanding stuff? | 21:41 |
| AlanBell | I read something about that when I was doing a braille font | 21:42 |
| erkan^ | yes | 21:43 |
| erkan^ | but | 21:43 |
| erkan^ | a friend for me is full deafblindness . he can not read a language. he have need "drawing" | 21:43 |
| erkan^ | .. swellpaper - drawinng | 21:43 |
| erkan^ | :s | 21:43 |
| hajour | AlanBell, i just told erkan^ in dutch this was a english channel and that he may pm me | 21:45 |
| hajour | thats all what was said and if i had get a email . | 21:46 |
| AlanBell | ha, so you did! | 21:46 |
| hajour | yes i have erkan^ in pm now | 21:46 |
| AlanBell | great | 21:47 |
| erkan^ | di you read that i wrote last message , AlanBell and hajour / | 21:53 |
| erkan^ | <erkan^> :P | 21:54 |
| erkan^ | <erkan^> I am read now --> http://www.nctd.org.uk/MakingTG/ | 21:54 |
| erkan^ | <erkan^> last weeks I had problem with internet connect )-: | 21:54 |
| erkan^ | <erkan^> do you know about "Tactile View", AlanBell ? | 21:54 |
| AlanBell | thanks erkan^ | 21:55 |
| erkan^ | i can not found tactile view -software for linux, AlanBell | 21:56 |
| AlanBell | what would that software do exactly? | 21:57 |
| hajour | i think if there would something like that | 21:58 |
| hajour | it will be a equipment i think | 21:58 |
| hajour | i never heard about a program like that.most use a speech program then | 21:59 |
| hajour | uch | 21:59 |
| hajour | sorry | 21:59 |
| hajour | delete the last line | 21:59 |
| erkan^ | AlanBell: www.tactileview.com , but that do support for Micro$oft only . with a tactile view can you draw a program , when you are clear than go you print with "SwellPaper Drawining" . | 21:59 |
| erkan^ | Did I write good English language, hajour ? :S | 22:00 |
| AlanBell | erkan^: that looks a lot like a cut down inkscape | 22:03 |
| AlanBell | with some gimp-like filters for making images into high contrast line drawings | 22:03 |
| hajour | he was maco not making something for deaf people? | 22:04 |
| hajour | AlanBell, ^ | 22:04 |
| AlanBell | filters-artistic-cartoon is the similar gimp plugin I was thinking of | 22:04 |
| AlanBell | hajour: not exactly | 22:04 |
| AlanBell | maco is working on a tutorial tool for American sign language | 22:05 |
| AlanBell | it can do other sign languages of course | 22:05 |
| hajour | AlanBell, where could i go for to make a equipment for for accessibility in ubuntu? | 22:06 |
| erkan^ | I don't like GIMP | 22:07 |
| erkan^ | :S | 22:07 |
| hajour | we are busy with something | 22:07 |
| hajour | i will fill you in later AlanBell i need first a real good plan | 22:07 |
| hajour | if we have the plan ready i would appreciate if you would look at it AlanBell | 22:08 |
| erkan^ | I am deaf and you , AlanBell ? | 22:10 |
| AlanBell | sure | 22:10 |
| AlanBell | erkan^: I am currently fully able bodied | 22:10 |
| erkan^ | do you mean that you can not talk, AlanBell ? | 22:11 |
| AlanBell | I can talk | 22:12 |
| AlanBell | sometimes it is hard to get me to shut up | 22:12 |
| erkan^ | ok i undestand | 22:13 |
| erkan^ | i am deaf and retinitis pigmentosa (combi syndrome usher), do you that AlanBell ? | 22:13 |
| charlie-tca | erkan^: AlanBell is one the few not disabled people that seems able to understand disabilities well. | 22:13 |
| erkan^ | ok | 22:15 |
| hajour | i have explain it charlie-tca to erkan^ :) | 22:20 |
| charlie-tca | thanks, hajour | 22:20 |
| hajour | but i am in 6 ppm s and 18 channels | 22:20 |
| hajour | and i really nreed to eat and take my medicine | 22:20 |
| charlie-tca | If we could get the rest of Ubuntu to understand the way AlanBell does, it would be easy getting accessibility in Ubuntu. | 22:21 |
| AlanBell | hah, well really I don't understand it properly, I can't | 22:22 |
| AlanBell | however with the persona stuff I can help improve the general level of understanding in a positive direction | 22:22 |
| hajour | AlanBell, i have trouble writing with that big pieces but i thould i can record what i have on knowledge for the persona s and then send it to 1 of you | 22:24 |
| erkan^2 | i have msised here | 22:24 |
| erkan^2 | :ws | 22:24 |
| hajour | well i read laterthe answer i really need to eat | 22:25 |
| === erkan^2 is now known as erkan^ | ||
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