[01:14] Hello. I'm blind and I'm using ubuntu 10.10 (with orca/gnome) with vmware inside my windows 7. I'm using the orca screen reader with autologin (does not work at login screen). Anyway, I had to have someone else install my setup for me on windows 7. [01:17] I'm not sure if installation are very accessible, besides being new to the whole linux thing last semeseter. But I wanted to start trying out if I can help develop for ubuntu. The beginner websites that explain are not very helpful for a blind person. The testdrive explanations have pictures and tell you to click here, etc. [01:22] Billg: the installer in 10.10 is not accessible. The installer in the development version, called Natty Narwhal, is being worked to make it accessible. [01:23] Billg: we do have some information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility that will help. There is also a guide to installing with Orca, the screen reader, there. [01:24] so what is my best work around for now, for setting up current devel releases ? [01:24] Billg: as far as development goes, you might want to talk to TheMuso [01:25] I usually test in VirtualBox, but for the current Natty, it won't work there yet for us. [01:37] how do i whisper or talk to someone privately? [01:56] Billg: enter /msg [02:00] JackyAlcine, is open mary already working? [02:01] It would, but I need Abhinva1's code to get audio output working. [02:02] i think Billg could use it , [02:03] if it is ready then we should say it to Billg [02:04] Billg, have you a webcam ? [02:04] JackyAlcine, if he have a webcam let him turn it to the monitor [02:04] so 1 off you can watch for Billg [02:05] Ah, but how would we stream his video to our client. [02:05] to install orca [02:05] hajour: He has Ocra installed. [02:05] i remember a other person who is helped that way [02:06] what have he need more then ? [02:06] i try to think to [02:06] to help [02:07] also Billg we have start working on a talking irc bot [02:08] if we can test it would you wanted to help with testing? [02:08] JackyAlcine, [02:08] have you Billg on skype or something? [02:09] the bots are highly experimental. [02:09] well he is blind it is mend for issues llike that [02:09] and he wanted to help [02:10] who can better say or it works then a person who is blind [02:11] can Billg hear now what iis in chat.or do you give it treu to him JackyAlcine ? [02:20] and this was 1 of the reasons i started speechcontrol [02:21] mhall119, [02:21] if speechcontrol is ready [02:21] can it then automatic install by the cd for to put unbuntu on a pc ? [02:22] we don't really help if they cant install it alone [02:23] For it be automatically installed with Ubuntu, hajour; we'd have to make the freeze date, and that's not possible. [02:23] in the next then? [02:23] i don't give easy up :P [02:24] but JackyAlcine have you read the rest to? [02:24] yup. [02:24] ok [02:24] i had doubt about that [02:24] Perhaps in 12.04+ [02:25] we go do our best [04:06] hajour: if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, you might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty [04:49] JackyAlcine, ^ read what mhall119 says [06:59] hajour: I did read your suggestion for classes, but I didn't really understand it, maybe put it on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org and we can edit it to reveal the meaning [15:22] hm, I just hear that Qt a11y depends on AT-SPI2 which is not finished and currently nobody has time or wants to spend money on it...? :-/ [15:23] JanC: where do you hear that? [15:25] from some KDE application developers [15:25] JanC: if it makes you feel better: currently there is no a11y support for qt apps [15:26] fregl: I know, that's what we were talking about [15:26] so who were you talking to? who else is involved there currently? [15:26] or, well, they say what Qt a11y there is is based on at-spi2 [15:27] and at-spi2 is not finished yet(?) [15:27] that's at-spiu over DBus instead of CORBA [15:27] * fregl currently looks at the qt-at-spi2 bridge... [15:28] hm, it seems natty has at-spi2 ? [15:28] so maybe their info is outdated ;) [15:28] JanC: who were you talking to? [15:30] boud & some other guy involved with Krita [15:31] good, I'm currently trying to figure out the situation a bit [15:32] nokia/trolltech (forget which) did at some point have in their press releases that there was at-spi support, but then one of the qt guys at nokia said at uds its not roadmapped and when i pointed out the press release said it must be wrong. maybe they have super-duper-basic support for just a few things and only in at-spi2? [15:33] maco: the press release is wrong. there is also no at-spi2 support. [15:33] so much for the bad side... [15:33] apparently one problem is/was at-spi is based on CORBA, and at-spi2 on DBus and as they already had DBus-support... [15:33] there is an attempt to create a qt at-spi 2 bridge [15:33] fregl: who is doing that attempt? [15:34] the problem is that it's broken/unfinished [15:34] it got started 2 years ago by someone that I don't know and jpwhiting did some fixes on it later [15:35] http://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi [15:35] fregl: if I understand correctly it was working-with-bugs until the at-spi2 API changed [15:35] well, time to get it working for real [15:37] fregl: is Ubuntu actually using atspi2 in natty? [15:38] JanC: I have no clue. there are packages, I think TheMuso can tell you more. [15:39] I see both libatspi & libatspi2 are in the repositories, let's see if I can see something on a running system... ☺ [15:40] at-spi2-core got into natty 7 days ago [15:41] bah, natty became very unstable recently... [15:43] JanC: for qt apps? nothing will work unless you build the bridge yourself [15:44] fregl: no, I mean whether Ubuntu uses atspi 1 or 2 for Gtk apps currently [15:44] by default atspi1, you can manually switch to atspi2 [15:44] atspi 1 will never work with Qt [15:45] correct [15:45] so they are more or less waiting on a stable atspi2 :-/ [15:59] Which won't happen any time soon. [16:03] JackyAlcine: you know more about that? [16:06] I mean, it would be sad if Qt/KDE developers want to implement a11y but are held back because atspi2 is delayed in GNOME ? :-/ [16:08] But it would be really great to get a11y working well even in gnome [16:14] Compared to the a11y in KDE, GNOME's a11y is a gem. [16:18] the real question is "does it really work well" [18:39] Hello... anyone here know a blind programmer or is one who develops for ubuntu? I'm looking for an easy way to get current devel releases without having to use a GUI. [18:39] hi Billg, TheMuso develops for ubuntu [18:40] best way to get the current devel release is probably install something that installs and upgrade [18:45] you know about any non-GUI apps that do that? the update-manager is not accessible [18:45] do-release-upgrade -d [18:45] I think [18:45] one sec . . . [18:46] yeah, that should work [18:46] u-m not accessible? oh goody [18:47] but it is a cross fingers and toes and everything else operation [18:47] maco: It may be in Natty. Webkit is substantially better now than it was for Maverick [18:47] maco: that will be the gksudo problem [18:47] gksudo problem? [18:47] Pendulum: i didnt think there was any webkit in u-m, just in usc [18:48] orca runs as the user, update-manager runs as root [18:48] orca isn't allowed to see it [18:48] doh [18:48] ah, AlanBell knows the actual answer :) [18:48] yup [18:48] There was some discussion somewhere about fixing it, I only got as far as understanding the problem [18:48] that is not limited to update-manager, either, is it? [18:49] no [18:49] anything that uses policykit should be fine though right? [18:49] like the users & groups thingy? [18:49] I think that is the solution, yse [18:49] yes [18:49] anything that uses gksu is bad, as I recall [18:50] everything using gksu is also a security issue, but it's not always easy to port applications to policykit [18:51] update manager is partly accessible just not the part that lets you upgrade your version of ubuntu [18:52] that's probably a part of synaptic [18:52] or used by both [18:56] or is it just the dialog that warns about risks & shows what it will do etc.? [21:07] JanC: Likely the aprt thats running as root. [21:07] part [21:08] There are a few things put in place to make that work if you install Ubuntu using an accessibility profile. [21:25] if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, we might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty. but we need some more help to do that [21:25] open mary ^ [21:25] a speak program for blind and people with issues [21:25] we are looking still for C++ people who are familiar with Glibmm and Gstreamermm. [21:25] and Python people should know PyGtk. [21:26] 4 of each [21:26] so who can help we would appreciate it [21:26] is it in debian? [21:27] ubuntu [21:27] uh?? [21:28] i dont understand the question complete AlanBell [21:28] it really needs to get into debian and then be synced into ubuntu from there [21:28] I don't think you will get a feature freeze exception for it [21:28] not my decision by any means [21:29] hajour: if it won't cause problems with other parts of Ubuntu, you might be able to get a feature freeze exception to get it into the repositories for Natty [21:29] AlanBell, ^ [21:29] hajour: you'll have to talk to a motu about it [21:29] but the way to get stuff into ubuntu is to get it into debian first, unless it is an important unique part of Ubuntu [21:30] we have motu s in the team mhall119 [21:30] is it in a PPA? [21:30] we have still not a good working speech program AlanBell so i think it is important [21:30] I know I've gotten FFEs in the past because my packages didn't impact anything else [21:31] i have told the team what you said mhall119 [21:31] there are working really hard on it already [21:31] and we have just get 2 new people to [21:32] great [21:32] I do hope it gets in [21:32] jmarsden is packaging together with RainCT [21:33] jmarsden is the new person who this evening have offert his help [21:33] also duanedesign have offert his help [21:34] and Billg he want to help testing [21:35] wat betekent capsule papier, hajour ? [21:35] kan nergesn vinden [21:36] uhm ik weet even niet wat je bedoelt erkan^ :) [21:36] heb jij ook een email van hugo ontvangt? over tactiele view [21:37] ik heb me mail nog niet gelezen maar erkan dit is een engelse chat je mag me wel pm en ok? [21:38] I normally love to see conversations in other languages, but as some people will be following this channel with a screen reader it might be best to take that to -nl [21:39] pm is good too. i try write English too (-: hajour [21:41] Good evening AlanBell [21:41] I have wroten about Tactile View [21:41] I don 't know whhat is "capsule paper" [21:41] (-: [21:41] is that the thermal expanding stuff? [21:42] I read something about that when I was doing a braille font [21:43] yes [21:43] but [21:43] a friend for me is full deafblindness . he can not read a language. he have need "drawing" [21:43] .. swellpaper - drawinng [21:43] :s [21:45] AlanBell, i just told erkan^ in dutch this was a english channel and that he may pm me [21:46] thats all what was said and if i had get a email . [21:46] ha, so you did! [21:46] yes i have erkan^ in pm now [21:47] great [21:53] di you read that i wrote last message , AlanBell and hajour / [21:54] <erkan^> :P [21:54] <erkan^> I am read now --> http://www.nctd.org.uk/MakingTG/ [21:54] <erkan^> last weeks I had problem with internet connect )-: [21:54] <erkan^> do you know about "Tactile View", AlanBell ? [21:55] thanks erkan^ [21:56] i can not found tactile view -software for linux, AlanBell [21:57] what would that software do exactly? [21:58] i think if there would something like that [21:58] it will be a equipment i think [21:59] i never heard about a program like that.most use a speech program then [21:59] uch [21:59] sorry [21:59] delete the last line [21:59] AlanBell: www.tactileview.com , but that do support for Micro$oft only . with a tactile view can you draw a program , when you are clear than go you print with "SwellPaper Drawining" . [22:00] Did I write good English language, hajour ? :S [22:03] erkan^: that looks a lot like a cut down inkscape [22:03] with some gimp-like filters for making images into high contrast line drawings [22:04] he was maco not making something for deaf people? [22:04] AlanBell, ^ [22:04] filters-artistic-cartoon is the similar gimp plugin I was thinking of [22:04] hajour: not exactly [22:05] maco is working on a tutorial tool for American sign language [22:05] it can do other sign languages of course [22:06] AlanBell, where could i go for to make a equipment for for accessibility in ubuntu? [22:07] I don't like GIMP [22:07] :S [22:07] we are busy with something [22:07] i will fill you in later AlanBell i need first a real good plan [22:08] if we have the plan ready i would appreciate if you would look at it AlanBell [22:10] I am deaf and you , AlanBell ? [22:10] sure [22:10] erkan^: I am currently fully able bodied [22:11] do you mean that you can not talk, AlanBell ? [22:12] I can talk [22:12] sometimes it is hard to get me to shut up [22:13] ok i undestand [22:13] i am deaf and retinitis pigmentosa (combi syndrome usher), do you that AlanBell ? [22:13] erkan^: AlanBell is one the few not disabled people that seems able to understand disabilities well. [22:15] ok [22:20] i have explain it charlie-tca to erkan^ :) [22:20] thanks, hajour [22:20] but i am in 6 ppm s and 18 channels [22:20] and i really nreed to eat and take my medicine [22:21] If we could get the rest of Ubuntu to understand the way AlanBell does, it would be easy getting accessibility in Ubuntu. [22:22] hah, well really I don't understand it properly, I can't [22:22] however with the persona stuff I can help improve the general level of understanding in a positive direction [22:24] AlanBell, i have trouble writing with that big pieces but i thould i can record what i have on knowledge for the persona s and then send it to 1 of you [22:24] i have msised here [22:24] :ws [22:25] well i read laterthe answer i really need to eat === erkan^2 is now known as erkan^