[00:55] <LLStarks> hey guys, firefox doesn't load v4l1compat.so automatically. doesn't this mean that older webcams can't use chatroulette and such?
[01:00] <LLStarks> v4l2convert.so or whatever the thing is
[01:02] <micahg> LLStarks: shouldn't that be loaded by whatever plugin is using it?
[01:03] <LLStarks> it isn't. same goes for things like skype.
[01:03] <micahg> well, I don't think Firefox should be linking against webcams libs
[01:03] <LLStarks> cheese finds the webcame fine without explicitly needing to load the library
[01:05] <LLStarks> http://pastebin.com/AL7Bg62u
[01:05] <LLStarks> the plugins, namely flash, are looking for the hooks
[01:06] <LLStarks> firefox, at least on linux, needs to provide for that
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> m_conley, we'll get a new launcher API soon in unity, which allows you to use quicklists, and add progress indicators to launcher icons
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> the API is already available (but not stable) - https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk
[16:11] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: ah, excellent - that's the third major project for integration.  So that's awesome.  :)
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be pretty neat :)
[16:29] <fta> chrisccoulson, pm
[17:10] <fta> jdstrand, fyi, linux/stable (9.0.597.84 -> 9.0.597.94)
[17:10] <fta> hmm
[17:11] <jdstrand> ack
[17:12] <micahg> jdstrand: I should have seamonkey tested by EOD
[17:12] <jdstrand> micahg: great, thanks :)
[17:14] <fta> chrisccoulson, micahg: does ff4 use libjpeg_turbo?
[17:14] <fta> yet
[17:14] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/564553/
[17:14] <micahg> fta: I don't think it does yet, let me see if I can find the bug
[17:16] <micahg> fta: not yet, mozilla 573948
[17:17] <fta> ok
[17:17] <fta> jdstrand, just checked, we need it, 5 security fixes
[17:17] <jdstrand> lovely
[17:17] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 573948 in ImageLib "Replace libjpeg with libjpeg-turbo" [Normal,Assigned] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=573948
[17:18] <jdstrand> fta: this will be just chromium-browser and not additional updates?
[17:18] <fta> jdstrand, yes, correct
[17:18] <jdstrand> cool
[17:19] <micahg> jdstrand: do you want me to talk to the release team about 10.04.2 and the Firefox delay?
[17:19] <jdstrand> micahg: sure, that would be friendly
[17:23] <dpm> hi fta, sorry for not replying earlier on on #launchpad I was discussing translations breakage in another browser on -desktop ;) - and then I got sidetracked.
[17:23] <dpm> So it seems that the fix for that bug won't make it for the LP rollout
[17:23] <dpm> but it might be cherrypicked afterwards
[17:24] <dpm> I'd say let's wait until then, and if it doesn't improve, I'd raise it on the launchpad-dev mailing list again
[17:25] <dpm> as danilo and the other guys (apart from henninge) are no longer working in translations
[17:25] <dpm> so the squad working on them should handle this
[17:25] <fta> dpm, i don't see what else i can do in my code. so i'll wait
[17:26] <dpm> fta, yeah, let's do that
[17:26] <fta> dpm, merging everything on my side means way more resources used. 3500 strings x 57 langs x 4 branches
[17:35] <dpm> fta, yeah, I understand it's a pain on your side :(
[17:37] <fta> dpm, the code is there now so it's ok. but i feel bad for the translators, they complain with a good reason, and i don't know what to tell them
[17:38] <fta> dpm, btw, i will blog once more about those translations, i still have some good news
[17:38] <fta> (this bug aside)
[17:39] <dpm> yeah, I read about what you were saying about landing new languages earlier on :)
[17:39] <fta> dpm, did you read my post about ch 9? there was something about translations in it too
[17:50] <fta> dpm, jdstrand: btw, i just generated the source tarball for the new chromium update (9.0.597.94), and it's missing the lp *improved* strings
[17:51] <fta> 2000 out of 200k strings :P
[17:51] <jdstrand> meh
[17:55] <micahg> jdstrand: oh well
[17:55] <dpm> :(
[17:55] <micahg> chrisccoulson: 10.04.2 won't have the next round of Mozilla updates
[17:55] <micahg> s/next/this/
[17:57] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that sucks
[17:57] <micahg> indeed
[18:00] <dpm> fta, I had read the blog post, but it seems too quickly, I had missed the translations part. I've now added it to the translators FB page :)
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> RIP abrowser => http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-4.0.head/revision/751
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> :)
[18:02] <micahg> now I can generate a tarball without authing to bzr :)
[18:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah!
[18:03] <fta> ?
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> oh, actually. we might still need to keep the abrowser branding in the tarball
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> as we'll need it eventually for lucid
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> but for now, we don't need it
[18:04] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I thought we were going to kill it in Lucid as well
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> well, we'll see what happens
[18:04] <fta> seems you guys undid everything asac and me did since 2007 :P
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> fta - sorry ;)
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> fta - people aren't really using abrowser (nobody noticed that it's been broken since december)
[18:05] <micahg> fta: tarball generation did a bzr checkout and if you have an ssh key associated with bzr, it prompts for auth unless you configure it a certain way (which I haven't figured out yet)
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> and it's going to get difficult to maintain in the future too
[18:06] <fta> abrowser was not mine anyway, i never really understood why it was needed
[18:06] <fta> something about OEM iirc
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> fta - yeah. they're not using it now though
[18:07] <fta> ok, good then
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i think i broke tbird upgrades (bug 715310)
[18:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 715310 in thunderbird "package thunderbird 3.1.8+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: le sous-processus script post-installation installé a retourné une erreur de sortie d'état 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715310
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> not much useful information there though. did anyone else see that issue?>
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> it upgraded fine here
[18:10]  * micahg doesn't see the bzr commits for it
[18:10] <micahg> and I'm still not on natty :)
[18:11]  * micahg will ask the Xubuntu folks if they've had any trouble
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[18:12] <chrisccoulson> the only thing i changed there was to do the symlink -> folder migration that dpkg doesn't handle
[18:12] <chrisccoulson> or, folder -> symlink, rather
[18:37] <LLStarks> chrisccoulson: it came up yesterday that apps like chrome, skype, firefox, etc don't have the proper hooks for non-uvc, v4l1 webcams unless the library is directly fed into the app.
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> huh, what does that have to do with firefox?
[18:37] <LLStarks> ffff, i can't read. stupid chatzilla
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> are you sure that's not flash?
[18:39]  * micahg thought it was Flash's fault as well
[18:45] <micahg> chrisccoulson: upgrade worked for charlie-tca
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> micahg - cool, thanks
[18:45] <micahg> chrisccoulson: but he went from 3.1.8+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu5  to current
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> i'll just keep an eye on the bugs then, it might just be one of those random failures we get with update-alternatives
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> (or perhaps he used ubuntuzilla!)
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[18:46] <micahg> chrisccoulson: charlie-tca is having trouble with saved tabs in the latest FF4 beta though
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> micahg - not asking if he wants them saved?
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> that's normal ;)
[18:47] <micahg> charlie-tca: firefox 4.0b11 does not save tabs, even checked in preferences to reopen all tabs when starting
[18:47] <LLStarks> damn xchat
[18:47] <chrisccoulson> micahg - it does save them, but it doesn't restore them automatically
[18:47] <LLStarks> keeps crashing
[18:47] <LLStarks> chris, did you get my last?
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> you need to go to History -> Restore Previous Session
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> ^^micahg
[18:48] <micahg> chrisccoulson: weird, my tabs still restore
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, about v4l1? not sure how that's anything to do with firefox...
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> micahg - you might have a user pref there
[18:49] <LLStarks> where does the responsibility for proper webcam hooks lie? libv4l?
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> micahg - the new behaviour is to save the session, but not restore automatically. this works quite well in the mozilla build, because they have a big "restore previous session" button on the homepage
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> but the new behaviour really sucks for us, because we have our own homepage
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering whether to revert that pref for us
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> the item in the history menu is not discoverable, and people are going to think they've lost their sessions
[18:50] <micahg> chrisccoulson: either that, or give us the button as well
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> i've had a few people ping me about it already
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> micahg - we can't add a button, as our homepage is remote content
[18:51] <micahg> oh, they have a local homepage
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> yep
[18:51]  * micahg was wondering how that worked with remote content, answer is: it doesn't :)
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> which is cool
[18:55] <LLStarks> chris, thunderbird-globalmenu needs to be pulled.
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> micahg - http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/home.png
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> hih?
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> huh, even?
[18:55] <LLStarks> doesn't let thunderbird configure
[18:56] <LLStarks> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[18:56] <LLStarks>   thunderbird thunderbird-globalmenu
[18:56] <chrisccoulson> starting with "thunderbird-globalmenu needs to be pulled isn't particularly helpful". please describe the problem first and i'll come up with a solution ;)
[18:56] <chrisccoulson> rather than telling me a solution before even telling me what the problem is ;)
[18:57] <LLStarks> http://pastebin.com/bDi0reLu
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> right
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> that's nothing to do with thunderbird-globalmenu
[18:57]  * m_conley exhales
[18:58] <m_conley> close one.  :)
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> that is just thunderbird failing to configure, but i've got no idea why yet. nobody else in here recreated it
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, it's more likely to do with another transition we did
[18:58] <LLStarks> okay
[18:58] <LLStarks> sorry for rushing to conclusions
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, is /usr/lib/thunderbird-3.1.8/extensions a folder or symlink after the upgrade?
[18:59] <LLStarks> symlink
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, so, it seems like it worked :/
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> interesting
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> and there are no other useful error messages
[19:01] <LLStarks> i could try looking through apt logs
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> there won't be anything there
[19:02] <LLStarks> but my whole machine has been unstable with bug 714959
[19:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 714959 in nautilus "Nautilus process crashes and restarts in an uninterruptible loop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/714959
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, oh, this is a fresh install of thunderbird rather than upgrade?
[19:05]  * chrisccoulson hasn't tested that!
[19:05] <LLStarks> upgrade
[19:05] <LLStarks> purging and fresh install doesn't help
[19:06] <chrisccoulson> hmmm :/
[19:06] <chrisccoulson> you can recreate it every time?
[19:07] <LLStarks> yea
[19:08] <chrisccoulson> just trying a fresh install
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> if my laptop ever hurries up
[19:13] <LLStarks> i swear my pc is conspiring against me
[19:14] <chrisccoulson> oh, i see it too
[19:48] <fta> jdstrand, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/9.0.597.94~r73967/   + bug 715357
[19:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 715357 in chromium-browser "9.0.597.84 -> 9.0.597.94 upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715357
[19:48] <jdstrand> fta: thanks-- so did you pull back in the translations (or similar), or will this regress?
[19:51] <fta> jdstrand, well, there's no real gap, everything is still translated, but the upstream translations replaced the launchpad translations (supposed to improve the upstream ones). That's all because of lp's new design, so i'd say it's no big deal
[19:51] <jdstrand> fta: ack
[19:52] <fta> jdstrand, it's already built in the stable ppa, all fine
[20:11] <julius__> hello, everyone
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/3.1.8+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 should fix it
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> but it's failed to build because of version skew with cairo packages
[20:13] <julius__> the nightlies for ff-4.0 are failing to build; anyone knows what's wrong?
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> julius__, i'll take a look later, i've got other things to do first though
[20:15] <chrisccoulson> i guess they only failed on last nights build though?
[20:15] <julius__> ok, thanks
[20:15] <julius__> nope, they failed from several days
[20:28] <micahg> chrisccoulson: if I get the Seamonkey testing done early, I'll try to take a look
[20:28] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[20:30] <LLStarks> wow. home dash is terrible.
[20:30] <LLStarks> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/02/home-dash-try-new-mozilla-labs.html
[20:35] <chrisccoulson> LLStarks, it's also experimental
[20:37] <LLStarks> i know, but it was like somebody gave my browser drugs. i had to rm the xpi directly to make it go away.
[20:43] <micahg> jdstrand: I forgot I blew away most of my VMs, is it ok for Seamonkey to be verified by tomorrow?  I want to get kvm set up on a new machine
[20:44] <jdstrand> micahg: absolutely
[20:44] <jdstrand> micahg: thank you for taking care of it :)
[20:45] <micahg> jdstrand: np
[20:51] <jdstrand> fta: uploaded to ubuntu-security-proposed. thanks for the packages! :)
[20:51] <fta> jdstrand, excellent \o/
[21:20] <micahg> jdstrand: is it safe to upgrade my VM machine to natty?
[21:20] <jdstrand> micahg: you mean the host?
[21:20] <micahg> jdstrand: yes
[21:20] <micahg> I'm installing maverick now
[21:20] <jdstrand> micahg: yes. I have one weird kvm/linux issue that seems related to wireless, but I seem to be the only one having the problem
[21:21] <jdstrand> micahg: that said, running maverick for a while is likely not a bad idea
[21:21] <micahg> ok, I just didn't want invalid test results
[21:21] <micahg> ok, maybe I'll play it safe
[21:21] <jdstrand> micahg: that way you can focus on learning the new processes, etc, rather than troubleshooting natty
[21:21] <micahg> heh, ok, makes sense
[21:22] <jdstrand> micahg: it is up to you of course. certainly by beta upgrading to natty is a good idea
[21:22] <micahg> I'm wondering if I should upgrade my laptop now or wait until I'm settled
[21:22] <micahg> jdstrand: I was doing that before :)
[21:22] <jdstrand> micahg: devs are encouraged to run the dev release, but early alphas are not a requirement
[21:22] <jdstrand> I tend to mix it up
[21:23] <jdstrand> this cycle I upgraded quite early
[21:23] <jdstrand> but that was because I wanted to provide feedback on unity
[21:23] <micahg> jdstrand: I assume that if something breaks I'm allowed to take the time to troubleshoot and/or fix it?
[21:23] <jdstrand> micahg: yes-- you need a working system :)
[21:24] <fta> upgrading to natty is way safer than upgrading from debian 5 to 6
[21:24] <jdstrand> micahg: you'll get the feel of it. some bugs are worth chasing and some worth reporting
[21:24] <fta> i did it today, total disaster
[21:24] <jdstrand> fta: bummer :(
[21:25] <jdstrand> eg, I'm not about to chase down a crasher in the unity panel
[21:25] <fta> broken libc, broken kernel, no way to continue/revert
[21:25] <jdstrand> eek
[21:26] <fta> once repaired, a thousand questions during the upgrade, most services to reconfigure, etc
[21:26] <jdstrand> ughh
[21:26] <micahg> wow, I've seen lots of good posts related to squeeze upgrades
[21:26] <fta> well, fortunately, that was my last debian server
[21:27] <jdstrand> probably depends in part on what you run
[21:27] <jdstrand> well, obviously, but the point is that some upgrade paths are more tested than others
[21:27] <fta> i installed thousands of debian servers and desktops in the past
[21:28] <fta> for more than a decade
[21:28] <fta> this upgrade was the worst
[21:28] <jdstrand> I think my worst upgrade experience was upgrading from sarge to gutsy
[21:28] <jdstrand> directly :)
[21:28] <fta> lol
[21:29] <jdstrand> that was less than ideal ;)
[21:29] <jdstrand> and surprisingly, an unsupported upgrade path. go figure
[21:29] <fta> since 2007, i've replaced almost all my debian machines with ubuntu
[21:29] <jdstrand> nice
[21:30] <fta> and tailored a bunch of debs to make the upgrades smooth
[21:30] <jdstrand> especially in later ubuntu releases (lucid+), the security features alone are a huge win (kernel and toolchain hardening, apparmor, etc)
[21:31] <fta> i can now clone most of my boxes quite easily
[21:31] <jdstrand> sweet
[21:31] <fta> incl my fully configured main desktop the way i like it
[21:32] <fta> well, not including unity
[21:32] <fta> which is still not usable for me anyway
[21:33] <jdstrand> it is getting there, but yeah, still quite a few bugs
[21:33] <fta> i'm not sure i'm willing to give up on my follow focus mode
[21:34] <fta> and i definitely don't want to go to everything full screen either
[21:34] <jdstrand> re focus> interesting. I think hallyn wanted that too. he mentioned possibly adding that ability
[21:35] <jdstrand> full screen I think/hope that is a bug. I don't run everything full screen either
[21:36] <fta> i mean, follow focus is not compatible with the global menu unless you go to everything full screen
[21:36] <fta> which is a nono on 24"+ screens
[21:37]  * jdstrand nods
[21:38] <fta> imho, unity is good for netbooks and laptops; but i'm really not sure for desktops
[21:39] <fta> but well, i've seen so many changes since twm in 92 :P
[21:39] <jdstrand> hehe
[21:39] <jdstrand> yes
[21:46] <fta> from that time, i still use the old xterm :)
[22:02] <BUGabundo> yo friends :D
[23:12] <LLStarks> latest thunderbird i386 configures properly
[23:12] <LLStarks> the one that was just built