[00:44] <seidos> so what do i have to install to get my computer to talk to me?  i want to use it with my eyes closed
[00:46] <charlie-tca> seidos: gnome-orca
[00:47] <charlie-tca> and run it in a terminal, it will have you set up the preferences. You decide if you want it run at login, then.
[00:47] <seidos> ah, already installed
[00:48] <seidos> i'm using 10.10
[00:48] <charlie-tca> the command is "orca"
[00:54] <seidos> charlie-tca: thanks...it appears to be functioning
[00:55] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[01:05] <maco> AlanBell: hmm yes this weekend i should write the "work with other languages" part
[01:06] <maco> just in case anyone starts work on another language pack
[01:33] <seidos> this orca thing is sweet!  my computer is talking \o/
[01:34] <Pendulum> seidos: awesome!
[01:41] <charlie-tca> TheMuso: Is there any reason I can not forward the speech-dispatcher bugs upstream to Debian?
[02:00] <hajour> is orca fixed again charlie-tca ?
[02:01] <charlie-tca> It works for some people
[02:01] <charlie-tca> I keep playing with the pitch and speed and stuff to make it sound better for me
[02:02] <charlie-tca> hajour: you can't run it on the eeepc if you can't run gnome on it
[02:02] <hajour> because last we tryed it the pc automatic was going out
[02:02] <hajour> o :(
[02:03] <charlie-tca> yeah, too much of gnome is needed to get it too work, I think
[02:08] <Pendulum> well, afaik, none of that really made it into alpha2
[02:08] <Pendulum> it's set for alpha3
[02:14] <hajour> my hope was high. but fast gone.like a blow of the wind .it disappeared
[02:15] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: do we have jcastro's keyboard shortcut list?
[02:15] <charlie-tca> yes, let me get it
[02:16] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[02:17] <charlie-tca> We are requesting others go ahead and fill it in whenever possible, too.
[02:17] <Pendulum> great
[02:17] <Pendulum> I'm trying to think of a spot to stick it on our wiki page
[02:21] <charlie-tca> We should add a link to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility/doc
[02:21] <charlie-tca> which is for the users instead of the devs
[02:21] <Pendulum> yeah
[02:56] <hajour> it is 3:55 in night here i go to sleep so
[02:56] <hajour> good night all/morning
[02:57] <Pendulum> g'night hajour 
[02:57] <hajour> :)
[12:16] <hajour> can someone fill me in what it means ? we are not under accessibility speechcontrol ???!!!
[12:26] <AlanBell> hajour: I have no idea what it means
[12:27] <AlanBell> are you referring to philw's email?
[12:27] <Pendulum> hajour: I'm just going to repeat what I said in the SpeechControl channel here (so people know we've discussed it)
[12:27] <Pendulum> AlanBell: she is
[12:27] <Pendulum> I'd said something to phillw about how I wanted to make sure that it was clear that SpeechControl was not the BT accessibility focus group. I think he misunderstood me in thinking that someone had said differently
[12:27] <AlanBell> sorry, just reading back in the other channel
[12:27] <Pendulum> the mail says you are and that he's upset if anyone has said you aren't
[12:27] <Pendulum> s'ok
[12:28] <Pendulum> question was asked in both places so I figured it was worth answering in both places
[12:29] <hajour> they said in ubt meeting that a focus group at least must have 10 persons
[12:30] <hajour> i have say that speechcontrol have 38 members and we are under accessibility
[12:30] <mhall119> hajour: maco: http://justanothertriager.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/have-an-interesting-project-you-want-to-talk-about/
[12:30] <hajour> so that means accessibility is bigger then 10
[12:30] <Pendulum> hajour: I know, I just don't want speech control to be the BT focus group
[12:31] <hajour> i also not .but i want accessibility is
[12:31] <Pendulum> and while I think you're doing good word, there's no one in speech control I would consider to be an appropriate a11y mentor yet
[12:31] <mhall119> 5 minutes to talk about speechcontrol and/or galley during UDW
[12:31] <Pendulum> *work
[12:31] <hajour> have they misunderstood me Pendulum ?
[12:31] <Pendulum> hajour: I don't think so, but I've found it unclear a couple times.
[12:32] <AlanBell> this is all something that can be sorted out
[12:32] <hajour> i really try Pendulum  but write is hard
[12:32] <hajour> i do my best
[12:32] <Pendulum> hajour: it's not just you. So I think it's something that I needed to say to make sure was clear :)
[12:33] <Pendulum> if it was just you, I'd have come to you. I talked to phillw because he's been involved longer with the beginners team
[12:33] <hajour> i thought if i say how big speechcontrol is and we are under accessibility they would make accessibility a focus group Pendulum 
[12:34] <hajour> i meant it well
[12:34] <Pendulum> *nods*
[12:34] <hajour> i go read it mhall119  but i need some time for it
[12:35] <Pendulum> We know we have the interest on the BT side of things, it's finding appropriate mentors so that there can actually be a fg
[12:46] <hajour> i have a helper in my home now i will come back later 
[12:46] <Pendulum> I have to go out in a little while so I may not be around when you get back
[12:49] <hajour> ok Pendulum  
[12:49] <hajour> have to go really till later
[17:44] <UndiFineD> mhall119: wow, 5 minutes of airtime on UDW for SpeechControl 
[17:45] <UndiFineD> mhall119: anything I can do to help that ?
[17:50] <mhall119> UndiFineD: add yourself to the list
[17:51] <mhall119> bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Sessions
[17:51] <mhall119> under stephanegraber
[17:51] <UndiFineD> mhall119: well that be nice but I am working
[17:53] <UndiFineD> what i can do is prepare a text
[17:53] <mhall119> it's only 5 minutes, there's not much to prepare
[17:53] <mhall119> you just say who you are, what you made, why it's cool, and where they can find out more information about it
[17:54] <UndiFineD> alright
[17:54] <mhall119> that'll leave you about 1 minute for Q&A
[18:56] <hajour> mhall119,  UndiFineD  had explain it to me what you mend UDW
[18:56] <hajour> very nice
[18:57] <UndiFineD> I am almost done writing it
[20:25] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I blew it. I have to get the blog post done tonight or tomorrow
[20:50] <erkan^> readed alan :P
[21:39] <Billg> hey, I just installed the current devel release 11.04 alpha but my orca key in laptop mode will also press the capslock key also turning caps on and off every time i hit it.  my 10.10 virtual machine doesn't have this problem.  Any ideas?
[21:41] <Billg> orca will still do what it needs to do.  it's just annoying when i got to type something the caps might be on.
[21:45] <Billg> be back in a bit
[21:52] <AlanBell> erkan^: I got a memoserv thing from you! first one I ever had
[21:54] <erkan^> really, AlanBell ? 
[21:54] <erkan^> memoserv is easy (-:
[22:06] <erkan^> did you understand a memoserv what i wrote, AlanBell  ?
[22:07] <AlanBell> nee, ik ben Engels
[22:08] <maco> oh i can understand that
[22:09] <erkan^> owwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[22:09] <erkan^> i have wroten in dutch language lol AlanBell 
[22:09] <erkan^> euh
[22:09] <erkan^> next time i will write in English language :p
[22:09] <AlanBell> :)
[22:11] <Billg> hello again, anyne know how to fix an orca bug where the orca key in laptop mode will also toggle caps on and off when you press but otherwise works fine? I dont have this problem in 10.10 but in the current devel release 11.04 i just installed.
[22:13] <erkan^> Do " Orca "  support for deaf too or not ? :S
[22:14] <maco> erkan^: i think its purpose is for blind-but-hearing users 
[22:14] <maco> but i guess its possible it could work with a brailletty
[22:14] <erkan^> ow ok
[22:15] <erkan^> in the further i go learn with braille when my eyes doens 't go good
[22:15] <erkan^> but maybe ubuntu can help me with a braille? :P
[22:16] <maco> if i lose one of my senses, i hope it's hearing, because i know enough ASL and zilch braille
[22:18] <erkan^> i understand it
[22:18] <erkan^> am i here only that i am deafblindness, maco ? :P
[22:19] <maco> possibly
[22:19] <maco> i have a friend who was teaching web design at Gallaudet University (deaf uni in the US) and couldn't get the students to do any of the accessibility stuff like alt tags, until finally he brought in someone who was deaf-blind to show them a braille TTY
[22:20] <erkan^> i have asked to deafblindness about linux, but they don' t like linux. they love windows or mac os x :( andd i like linux
[22:20] <erkan^> Cool
[22:20] <erkan^> A friend (and collegue too) for me was on Gallaud univeristy too
[22:21] <erkan^> very godo taht deaf and deafblindness go study in Gallaudet University
[22:22] <erkan^> *good that
[22:24] <erkan^> My dream: I want study to High School , maco
[23:00] <JanC> erkan^: bedoel je "hogeschool" ?
[23:02] <erkan^> of havo
[23:03] <erkan^> ja janc
[23:03]  * erkan^ wil geen uni of beroepsopleiding volgen
[23:04] <JanC> "HAVO" ~= high school I think, "hogeschool" ~= "college" in the US
[23:05] <erkan^> oww
[23:06] <JanC> but I might be wrong about "HAVO", as I'm not Dutch...  ;)
[23:07] <erkan^> The havo or hoger algemeen voortgezet onderwijs (literally: "higher general continued education") is a stream in the secondary educational system of the Netherlands. It has five grades and is generally attended from age twelve to seventeen. A havo diploma provides access to the hbo-level (polytechnic) of tertiary education.
[23:07] <maco> highschool in the US is secondary school that most everyone goes to (ends around age 18)
[23:07] <JanC> right, according to WikiPedia HAVO ~= high school
[23:07] <erkan^> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoger_algemeen_voortgezet_onderwijs
[23:08] <JanC> the tricky thing is that "high school" translates to "hogeschool" in dutch, while that's where you go after secundary school  ;)
[23:08] <maco> gotcha
[23:09] <JanC> you go to a "hogeschool" to get a bachelor (or in some cases a masters)
[23:09] <maco> in spanish "colegio" is high school, so im used to such confusions
[23:09] <JanC> yeah, "college" is used for certain types of high school in Beglium too
[23:10] <JanC> Belgium
[23:10] <maco> surprisingly, japanese actually does use "tall/high"+school to mean secondary school.  university is "big school"
[23:10] <erkan^> when i have learned high school, than I can good write in English langauge... that I true
[23:11] <maco> i say "uni" like a brit instead of "college" because i figure its at least one less layer of confusion
[23:11] <JanC> college/collège is actually a form of catholic high school in Belgium
[23:11] <maco> yeah see i figure all americans know what university means even if they tend not to say it
[23:12] <JanC> right
[23:12] <maco> and i dont know of anywhere that "university" overlaps with some other level of schooling
[23:12] <maco> the word, i mean
[23:12] <maco> so its much better for disambiguation
[23:13] <JanC> in Belgium a masters from a "hogeschool" is not the same as a masters from a "universiteit" though
[23:13] <JanC> the former tends to be somewhat more practice-oriented while the later is more theory-oriented
[23:14] <maco> ah what we call technical school
[23:14] <JanC> depends  ;)
[23:14] <maco> oh dear
[23:15] <JanC> "hogeschool" has tracks that end in a bachelor and tracks that end in a master
[23:15] <erkan^> maco: JanC gaat voor jou vertalen dat ik schrijf in Nederlands. Gallaudet University is hetzelfde als HBO opleiding
[23:16] <maco> JanC: *whimper*
[23:16] <JanC> erkan^: I think what you call HBO in the Netherlands is a bachelors, and I think maybe what maco means by technical school?
[23:16] <maco> 4-years is Bachelors here
[23:17] <maco> normally you then do 1-2 years after that for Masters
[23:17] <erkan^> dat heeft een vriend (en/of collega) tegen me verteld
[23:17] <maco> but sometimes people go for 5 years straight and get Bachelors & Masters all at once
[23:18] <maco> what i mean by technical school is... we have a separate system of post-secondary schools called technical institutes or tech schools, and that's where you go for things like nursing, medical transcription, network administration, etc.  some of those schools give just certificates, and others give bachelors
[23:18] <JanC> in Belgium you can get e.g. a masters in engineering in 5 years from both a "hogeschool" and a "universiteit", but the former will be more practical, and the later more theoretical
[23:19] <maco> hmm ok
[23:19] <maco> i think we'd call both universities here and it'd just be a school's reputation that told you which you'd get
[23:19] <erkan^> ik ben net "bachelors" aan het lezen
[23:19] <erkan^> nieuwe woord voor me geleerd
[23:19] <JanC> maco: that sounds like "technical schools" are a mix of what we call "hogeschool" and "(post-)secondary"
[23:20] <erkan^> <I am reading bachelors. I have learnd that new word>
[23:20] <maco> "nieuwe"...wow, dutch has lots of letters to say "new"
[23:22] <JanC> ;)
[23:23] <maco> oh wait, japanese has more
[23:23] <maco> atarashii
[23:24] <JanC> in any case, here is no 1:1 mapping between school systems in different countries...
[23:24] <maco> yes. confusingly.
[23:24] <JanC> not even between Belgium & The Netherlands for example
[23:24] <maco> i was surprised when my dad mentioned that high school when he was a kid was only 3 years
[23:25] <JanC> they had middle school?
[23:25] <erkan^> yes
[23:25] <erkan^> haha
[23:25] <erkan^> nice he ?
[23:25] <JanC> or just less years?
[23:25] <maco> i think it was 1-6, 9-12
[23:25] <maco> normally here it's like 1-4, 5-7, 8-12
[23:26] <maco> er wait
[23:26] <maco> bahhh
[23:26] <JanC> in Belgium, primary school & secundary school are 6 years each
[23:27] <maco> normally here its  1-4, 5-8, 9-12
[23:27] <erkan^> primary school / secundary = basisschool ?
[23:27] <maco> and when he was in school it was i guess 1-9, 10-12
[23:27] <maco> when i was in school, they didnt have room for all the students, so we had 1-4, 5-7, 8-9, 10-12
[23:28] <JanC> erkan^: primary school = "basisschool"
[23:28] <maco> (1-6,9-12? how did i even type that? it makes no sense)
[23:29] <maco> erkan^: secondary = havo
[23:29] <erkan^> and secundary school = voortgezete onderwijs ?
[23:29] <erkan^> kee
[23:29] <JanC> HAVO is just one type of secondary school
[23:29] <maco> oh thats confusing
[23:29] <erkan^> dus das "voortgezette onderwijs" (-:
[23:31] <JanC> maco: secondary school has several "tracks", ranging from general education (with an emphasis on languages, math, etc. if you want) to tracks that lead to learning a particular job
[23:31] <maco> oooh ok
[23:32] <maco> we're required to do the general education stuff, but my high school allowed students to take half the day to attend at a vocational school
[23:32] <maco> hmm....i wonder if the performing arts high school had much general ed. requirements...
[23:33] <JanC> in Belgium the 4 main tracks are general, technical, profession (handicraft) & art
[23:33] <maco> hi jasono
[23:33] <JanC> where "technical" is between learning a specific craft & general education
[23:33] <jasono> Hi maco
[23:34] <maco> jasono: are you new around here, or have i not been paying attention?
[23:34] <erkan^> Wat noemen zese woord (ofwel VS) voor mbo, hbo en universiteit 
[23:34] <erkan^> oeps
[23:35] <erkan^> Wat noem men een Engelse woord (ofwel VS) voor mbo, hbo en universiteit? (secundary = voortgezet ; primair = basis), JanC 
[23:35] <jasono> maco Kind of new but I always come on thois chanel so I guess not. Depending on what you mean.
[23:35] <jasono> *this
[23:35] <erkan^> Good night, jasono 
[23:35] <jasono> Good night erkan^
[23:35] <maco> jasono: you joined & parted before, so i was just checking it wasnt "hrm it says accessibility but theyre just speaking some other language..."
[23:36] <JanC> erkan^: MBO is what I mean with learning a craft (you learn a job)
[23:36] <maco> JanC: which i would call vocational or trade school
[23:36] <jasono> maco Oh. Yeah my connection dropped. :/ 
[23:37] <JanC> maco: maybe (now I'm getting confused, nobody in US movies/books goes to such a school... :p )
[23:37] <erkan^> ok
[23:38] <maco> JanC: that's because here it's considered low-class
[23:38] <JanC> unless it's part of "high school"
[23:38] <JanC> eh
[23:38] <erkan^> Ik heb VMBO basisberoepgerichte leerweg (Economie, Administratie) geleerd, daarna heb ik MBO 2 niveau "bedrijfsadministratief medwerker" opleiding gedaan. am I craft ?
[23:39] <maco> JanC: we have advertisements for them on TV, and it's always made out to be what you do if you want to change jobs or if you're a housewife who needs to train for a job quickly
[23:39] <maco> JanC: college/university is generally considered to be what "everyone" does after high school, even if it's not true
[23:39] <JanC> I was talking about learning a job for high school age people?
[23:40] <maco> oh i see
[23:40] <maco> maybe it's weird, but we have them at both high school level and at post-high-school
[23:40] <maco> like my high school that sent students half the day to one of these
[23:40] <JanC> well, they exist post-high school of course
[23:41] <maco> i remember wanting to go to the vocational school during high school and my mum said i couldnt because if i went it would prevent me from going to uni
[23:41] <JanC> organised by the employment agencies & such
[23:41] <maco> (because going there would mean not having all the extra maths and such to get into uni)
[23:41] <JanC> right
[23:42] <JanC> we also have the intermediate "technical" level in high school which is somewhat in between
[23:44] <maco> i dont know if the half-day-hs/half-day-elsewhere thing is weird, but my hs had programs like that for both vocational schools and the community college (CC = state-run school for uni-level classes offering only 2-year degrees called "Associates Degree" which can be transferred to an actual uni to put toward a Bachelors)
[23:44] <erkan^> brb
[23:45] <JanC> in Belgium you would go to a different school, not take classes elsewhre half time
[23:45] <JanC> (not sure what is best actually)
[23:46] <maco> one year, i was enrolled in hs, cc, and uni all at once
[23:46] <JanC> I doubt that's possible over here  ;)
[23:46] <JanC> the school system is (or at least was) very rigid
[23:46] <maco> we had teachers at the hs who were certified by the uni to teach the uni classes with the uni's curriculum for certain specific classes, including computer science and calculus...
[23:47] <maco> so i went to the cc in the morning, then in the afternoon i took phys ed at the hs along with a bunch of uni classes at the hs
[23:48] <JanC> I can imagine if there is good "guidance" that could be a good idea
[23:49] <JanC> OTOH, things like "math" has several levels in schools over here, ranging from 2h/week to 8h/week, where the 2h course covers about 1/30th of the 8h course  ;)
[23:50] <JanC> (the 8h is only during the last 2 years of high school though)
[23:50] <erkan^> heb ijj ict opleiding gevolgd? zo ja, universiteit of master , JanC  ?
[23:52]  * erkan^ is very curious to ubuntu-people what have they learn on school :P ...
[23:53] <JanC> erkan^: I have a high school diploma  ;)
[23:53] <erkan^> en beroepsopleiding ?
[23:53] <JanC> I did follow courses for bachelor though
[23:53] <erkan^> bachelor = hbo snap ik ?
[23:53] <JanC> yes
[23:54] <erkan^> ik wil kijken of het mogelijk voor me is dat ik ga na zomerseizoen een havo opleidng volgen 
[23:55] <erkan^> omdat ik graag nederlands, engels, aardrijkskunde, biologie geschiedenis wil leren zonder specialist (beroeopsopeldiing) volgen
[23:56] <JanC> erkan^: I know somebody who's deaf and is now a master ("licentiaat") in electronic engineering
[23:56] <JanC> well, "know", he's the son of the local electronics shop in the place where I grew up
[23:57] <JanC> so it's certainly possible if your teachers want to help
[23:57] <JanC> I think always speaking with their face to the class helps a lot...
[23:57] <JanC> so that you can use "lip-reading"
[23:59] <JanC> (he went to a normal school & university after he was 16yo or so)
[23:59] <erkan^> I am searching
[23:59] <erkan^> but i don' t want learn lip-reading
[23:59] <erkan^> mijn voorkeur is naar tolk
[23:59] <erkan^> maar is erg duur )-: