/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/09/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

collinpI'M NOT LATE.00:00
duanedesignme too :)00:00
phillwmade it with seconds to spare :)00:00
collinpOh yes.00:01
UndiFineDo/00:01
jledbetterHowdy00:01
duanedesign#startmeeting00:01
MootBotMeeting started at 18:01. The chair is duanedesign.00:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]00:01
duanedesignhello everyone and thank you for coming00:01
duanedesignit is awesome to have so many new people joining the team00:02
duanedesignour mentee seeking mentor list is kinda long00:03
phillwI'm kidnapping them as fast I can :P00:03
UndiFineDfunny how it turned out exactly as i predicted in august duanedesign00:03
duanedesignhowever I notice some of those folks I have never seen in the channel00:03
* jledbetter goes to look at it.00:03
UndiFineDor was it oktober ... time flies00:04
duanedesign[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership00:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership00:04
duanedesignis there anyone here who has not yet been  paired up with antone?00:04
duanedesignanyone*00:05
hakimsheriff2Sorry im late00:05
phillwduanedesign: as people on the mentor list are recommended by their TL's, it is a difficult problem. Do we turn them away are welcome them?00:05
duanedesignor should that be paired up with someone...:P00:05
collinphakimsheriff: No problem. I was -almost- late myself.00:05
jledbetterPaired up as in 'seeking master'? Right?00:05
phillw/sare/or00:05
duanedesignjledbetter: yes a master or mentor00:06
duanedesignphillw: what is TL?00:06
collinpTeam Leader?00:06
phillwTeam Leader, as per the email sent out.00:06
* jledbetter isn't a mentor or master but has no available time at the moment, unfortunately.00:06
duanedesignjledbetter: ok, thank you for beiing honest00:07
collinpI was here before the team was even called what it is now. I guess that classifies as enough experience :P00:07
collinpSadly, I have no time either.00:07
jledbetterThat's how I roll :) Maybe next month.00:07
hakimsheriff2I am not a full member yet so I cant00:08
duanedesignhakimsheriff2:  do you have a Beginners Team member sho is helping you out?00:08
hakimsheriff2Mohi is.my mentor00:09
duanedesigneach prospective member should have someone who is helping them join the team and.or joining a team in the community00:09
duanedesignhakimsheriff2: oh great00:09
duanedesignhe has been a little ill lately. he will be back soon00:09
hakimsheriff2Thats why I didnt see him00:09
jledbetterIs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors up to date? Those the only approved masters/mentors?00:10
duanedesignlets keep an eye out for the people on the mentee list and see who stops by the channel00:10
MrChrisDruifNo member either....even if I was, wouldn't have much time :)00:10
UndiFineDMrChrisDruif: you are doing great :)00:10
phillwhakimsheriff if you need a bit of extra help, I'm sure that pedro would assist you, those two guys work very closely together.00:10
duanedesignyes mohi has chicken pox :( I think he is on the mends though00:11
hakimsheriff2Help in what exactly?00:11
collinpRemember that Ubuntu is purely volunteer work, you contribute only if you have the time for it, so there's no pressure if you can't due to other obligations.00:11
phillwhakimsheriff in any area.00:11
duanedesignhakimsheriff2:  anything UBuntu or BT related00:11
hakimsheriff2Mohi helps me getting involved00:12
duanedesigncollinp: so true. We want this to be fun00:12
hakimsheriff2It is fun!00:12
jledbetterfun +100:12
MrChrisDruifSuggestion: discuss this after the meeting? O:-)00:12
hakimsheriff2Sure00:12
pedro3005fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun00:13
duanedesignalso all the members of the team are your mentors. Everyone gets someone assigned to them to be a designated contact, but dont be afrais to ask anyone on the team a question00:13
duanedesignpedro3005: lol00:13
hakimsheriff2Btw.... My normal nick doesnt hav a 2 in it00:13
duanedesignjledbetter: yes that is the list00:13
duanedesignehich is a good transition into next topic00:14
jledbetter:)00:14
duanedesign[TOPIC] more mentors00:14
MootBotNew Topic:  more mentors00:14
duanedesignok, we put into place some new requirements to be a mento.00:14
duanedesignmentor00:14
collinpWelcome seidos.00:15
duanedesignbasically the community at large wanted some reassurance that our mentors knew their stuff00:15
seidosgracias collinp00:15
jledbetterHave to be a Master to be Mentor, right?00:16
duanedesignif the bug guys or the doc guys are going to send mentees to us they want to make sure we are assigning knowledgable mentors00:16
duanedesignjledbetter: yes, I think all members are masters00:16
jledbetterGreat.00:16
phillwduanedesign: there was only one way I could get Manuela happy as a mentor, as she does not fit into any of the main 4 groups, but Accessibility is a vital part of ubuntu. So I put her htere.00:16
phillw*there*00:17
duanedesignthat makes sense00:17
duanedesignphillw: we want to start an accessebility FG eventually00:17
duanedesignso I see no problem with that00:17
jledbetterThat'd be nice.00:17
duanedesignIf you all saw my email earlier today it outlined breifly the requirments to be a mentor00:18
duanedesignbug fg mentor should be a member of Bug Control00:18
duanedesigndoc FG, doc contributors or wiki admin00:18
phillwas the TL for speechcontrol and dragging a dormant project back to life, she has done outstanding work.00:18
UndiFineDI talked with cprofitt on a accessibility FG , he said it would fit in with devs and support00:18
duanedesignsupport fg, is based on contributions since their is no community team counterpart00:19
duanedesignDevelopment FG you should be a Contributing Developers, per-package uploaders, MOTU or Core Developers.00:19
seidosis there a particular focus group considered to have the most need right now?00:19
duanedesignhhmmm, good question00:20
MrChrisDruifAccessibility, as it's a young fg?00:20
duanedesignill think about that00:20
duanedesigni want to encourage all members to be mentors00:21
phillwseidos: they all need help, but having missed the 10.10 docs, if you are familar with wiki and docs, that team needs a bit of help.00:21
UndiFineDif an accessibility FG would be created, the people with interest are recommended to be forwarded to #ubuntu-accessibility00:21
seidosphillw: i have done a bit of wiki00:21
seidosi was going to say bugs, but you kind of need to know dev to fix code, unless bugs need triaging00:21
duanedesignIf you are already a member of one of the community teams I mentioned, or you feel like you have enough support under your belt please let me or cprofitt know00:22
duanedesignso we can add you to othe mentor list00:22
jledbetterWill do00:23
duanedesignI also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any good ideas for encouraging/helping each other join these teams so we can increase the number of mentors00:23
hajouri was not on the list but i been made mentor not long ago00:23
phillwduanedesign: the creation of an accessibility FG would allow more people to feel comfortable, they need not be a member of just one. There are, for example, some excellent coders on the tram. I'd ask that you check with the council00:23
phillw/s/tram/team/00:24
duanedesignright now we will probablly do the accessebility FG under another FG until it grows a bit and then we will make an official FG00:24
UndiFineDduanedesign: I have a broad interest, so I try know a bit of all00:24
hakimsheriff2Good idea00:25
duanedesigni think charlie-tca is also very interested in accessebility00:25
jledbetterduanedesign, How to get more mentors? Ask? Maybe training too?00:25
seidosi dabbled in accessibility00:25
seidosi couldn't get orca working00:25
seidosnot sure what other tools are out there00:25
duanedesignjledbetter: i thought maybe some loose knit ggroups that help each other accomplish the requirements for membership in the team of interest00:26
hajouri am mentor accessibility duanedesign00:26
phillwduanedesign: but it is a bit difficult, as we do teaching web pages, have devs working on projects etc. They just do not know where to 'slot in'00:26
UndiFineDseidos: you can ask that in #ubuntu-accessibility00:26
jledbetterduanedesign, I can definitely see that being helpful with dev. It's a huge realm.00:26
collinpphillw: Accessibility would fit in under the dev FG.00:27
duanedesignPabloRubianes: hello00:27
PabloRubianesyes00:27
collinpUntil it gets to a critical mass where it can form it's own FG.00:27
duanedesignPabloRubianes: sorry i was tryiing to respond to your PM :P00:27
UndiFineDcollinp: what is considered critical mass ?00:27
collinpEnough to sustain it.00:27
collinpProbably 10+ members.00:27
duanedesignyes we have had a problem in the past of jumping the gun on FG00:28
phillwcollinp: speechcontrol itself is well past that :)00:28
UndiFineDcollinp: I think we reached that already00:28
duanedesignwhere we have focus groups that sound ggreat, we form them and they never quite sustain themselves00:28
phillwas we are under the access group, you'd be suprised :)00:28
hakimsheriff2I am using a text to speech right now00:28
duanedesignUndiFineD: thats great. we can work on that this month and put it on the agenda for next meeting00:29
collinpphillw: Consider the fact that the Dev and Wiki FGs are the only ones that have 5+ members in their IRC channels.00:29
jledbetterAccessibility helps everyone so it's good that it's a very popular group00:29
MrChrisDruifGreat hakimsheriff2 :)00:29
collinpRight now, at least.00:29
hajourwe have 40 members on speechcontrol team and we are attached on the accessibility program collinp00:29
phillwduanedesign: I know that fully well, but with people like hajour and pen, along with alan bell - that FG would be self sustainable.00:29
collinpSpeaking of the Dev FG, at the end of the meeting duanedesign, could I make an impromptu announcement?00:30
duanedesigncollinp: absolutely00:30
UndiFineDnew members interested in accessibility are requested to join #ubuntu-accessibility00:30
seidosUndiFineD: already joined00:31
phillwthey are also required to sign the CoC00:31
duanedesignok so we need more mentors, so lets encourage each other and do what we can there00:31
jledbetterSounds good00:32
UndiFineDwell, I think I might be ready for a new padawan soon00:32
seidosduanedesign: i can go where i'm wanted.  people don't like hanging out in an empty and/or quiet channel00:32
duanedesign:)00:32
phillwduanedesign: I have a new lubuntueer, he's a dev person. I may be able to get him on board.00:32
MrChrisDruifUndiFineD flies through his padawan's :P00:32
duanedesignok whho has mentee here?00:33
duanedesignwho wants to give an update00:33
MrChrisDruifduanedesign: Hmm?00:33
phillwduanedesign: I have 4!00:33
hajourwell there are all working on the accessibility programs seidos  because i have many in the speechcontrol team00:33
UndiFineDI have MrChrisDruif , who needs testamonials00:33
* seidos flies through his master00:33
seidosd'oh00:33
* seidos puts on the rock of shame and the rock of triumph00:34
collinpphillw: Wow.00:34
collinpThat's quite a bit.00:34
MrChrisDruifxD00:34
duanedesignMrChrisDruif: at each meeting we like to give updates on how our mentees are doing. Mentors/Masters share the success, or disappearances of their mentees00:34
duanedesignill go first00:34
phillwUndiFineD: MrChrisDruif is a wonderful padawan, it is joy and delight to chat to him. He has learned so much.00:34
duanedesignDaniel** has been doing well. He has been putting in the time showing up in the channel00:34
duanedesignhe also is working with phillw00:35
duanedesignnext00:35
hajouri think MrChrisDruif  also would be a good master00:35
duanedesigndont be shy, someone tell us how your mentee is doing...00:35
jledbetterWhat about mentee saying how she/he is doing if master isn't present?00:36
duanedesignthat would be awesome00:36
phillwI know that two of mine have had 'issues', but they have assured me that they will not let the project that they have been assigned to down.00:36
duanedesignphillw: i think as long as they let you know what is going on00:37
UndiFineDMrChrisDruif has been my padawan for a small month, he has been around much longer than that, he is my first, but I think he is ready for his testamonials, he made great progress and is involved in the development with many common teams00:37
phillwUndiFineD: If it were a vote, he'd get a +1 from me without hesitation.00:38
seidosdo you cover positive and negative aspects of mentees or padwans?00:38
duanedesignyes MrChrisDruif i see alot in the channel which is good :)00:38
MrChrisDruifduanedesign: phillw is omnipresent (or has his ways of getting the news O:-))00:38
duanedesignseidos: mostly positives and missing in actions00:38
seidosRIP MIA :(00:39
UndiFineDseidos: we tend to emphasize the positive, negative aspects can be dealt with in private hmm :)00:39
collinpLook who strolls in.00:39
hajourduanedesign, cprofitt is not here but i have JackyAlcine in my team many hours and i see him also often in ubuntu beginners team and in ubuntu-beginners helping00:39
duanedesignthat way if someone is missing someone else has the opportunity to say oh [s]he is...00:39
seidosUndiFineD: always?  like festering wounds?00:39
duanedesignyes00:39
duanedesigni mean yes to hajour :)00:39
seidosi inferred \o/00:40
seidosis inference the same as assumption?  hmmm00:40
collinpInference is guessing something missing based on what is given.00:40
collinpAssumption is guessing based on past experience.00:40
jledbetterhaha00:41
UndiFineDI think JackyAlcine is ready00:41
duanedesignok great00:41
seidospast experience isn't given?  hmmmm00:41
phillwhajour: I think JackyAlcine would make an excellent mentor, he has the patience to help and the thirst to learn.00:41
hajourcollinp,  a little could you be a little more clear?00:41
hajouryes agree phillw00:41
duanedesign[ACTION] work on accessebility fg00:42
MootBotACTION received:  work on accessebility fg00:42
MrChrisDruifDoes JackyAlcine have the time? He's always busy with SpeechControl :)00:42
collinpEr. google.com -> define:inference and define:assumption00:42
seidoscollinp: i don't disagree with the definitions00:42
seidosthanks :)00:42
charlie-tcai can infer from what he implied00:42
jledbetterBut anyway...00:42
hajourMrChrisDruif,  a mentee can work with the project fromm his her mentor00:42
duanedesigni think that is hajour and UndiFineD. The accessebility fg00:42
collinpcharlie-tca: Oh my god.00:42
charlie-tcalol00:43
charlie-tcabut assume is never good00:43
seidoscharlie-tca: you can, but should you ;)00:43
jledbetterBack to agenda, please :)00:43
collinp^ good idea.00:43
phillwthere are enough people on accessibilty channels to support a FG - Some quite astounding people in fact00:43
duanedesignoh and charlie-tca and hggdh have been doing a great job of being available to answer questions in our channel about bug triage00:44
* hggdh hears self's name00:44
duanedesignplease be aware they are there and they love to help :)00:44
UndiFineDyes, the user days was nice00:44
phillwduanedesign: and tenach has started the classroom sessions for coding web sites00:44
UndiFineD? phillw did i miss it ?00:45
phillwUndiFineD: we have not done that one yet.... me and another are doing those sessions :D00:46
duanedesignme and cprofitt talked today about hggdh and charlie-tca becoming members of the BT. I probably dont have to tell you all they would be great members of the team00:46
MrChrisDruifI don't want to be a party pooper, but we've got about 15 mins left....00:46
UndiFineDduanedesign: totally agree-ing00:47
duanedesignand since the last thing we always cover is member votes let us vote on them being members :)00:47
phillwduanedesign: I do not know hggdh, but charlie-tca I would give a +1 to00:47
collinpThere's not another meeting for a while, so we probably won't have any trouble if we go over the meeting time.00:47
hajour+100:47
hggdhphillw: I am one of the admins for bug-control and bugsquad00:47
PabloRubianesduanedesign, good lets vote then00:48
duanedesign[VOTE] hggdh for member00:48
MootBotPlease vote on:  hggdh for member.00:48
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:48
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:48
duanedesign+100:48
collinp+100:48
MootBot+1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:48
MootBot+1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:48
phillwhggdh: you have just gained a +1 from me, bug hunting is a neverending task00:48
UndiFineD+100:48
MootBot+1 received from UndiFineD. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:48
hajour+100:48
MootBot+1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:48
phillw+100:48
MootBot+1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 500:48
PabloRubianes+100:49
MootBot+1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 600:49
duanedesignany other members present to vote00:49
collinpWell, that was simple.00:49
duanedesign[ENDVOTE]00:49
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 600:49
duanedesignyaa00:49
hggdh:-)00:49
hggdhthank you folks00:49
jledbetter+1 (I was reading sorry)00:49
jledbetterGrats!00:49
duanedesignwelcome hggdh00:49
collinphggdh: I think you mentioning "admin for bug-control and bugsquad" did the trick :P00:49
PabloRubianescongrats hggdh00:49
charlie-tcaCongratulations, hggdh00:49
hggdhheh00:49
MrChrisDruifCongratz hggdh :)00:49
duanedesignok now mr charlie00:49
hajourcongrats hggdh and charlie-tca00:49
charlie-tcaI am just an underling compared to hggdh00:50
paultag+1, late00:50
duanedesignI met charlie at UDS and I see him all over the community. He would be a great +! iin my book00:50
paultaglove you guys, keep on keeping on00:50
hggdhcharlie-tca: not at all00:50
MrChrisDruifhajour: I think we need to vote about it (but will prolly pass)00:50
duanedesign[VOTE] charlie-tca for member00:50
MootBotPlease vote on:  charlie-tca for member.00:50
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:50
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:50
UndiFineD+100:50
duanedesign+100:50
hajour+100:50
jledbetter+100:50
MootBot+1 received from UndiFineD. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:50
MootBot+1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:50
MootBot+1 received from jledbetter. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:50
collinp000:50
MootBot+1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:50
paultag+100:50
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 500:50
collinper00:50
collinp+000:50
MootBotAbstention received from collinp. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 500:50
phillw+100:50
PabloRubianes+100:50
MootBot+1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 600:50
MootBot+1 received from phillw. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 700:50
duanedesignok... anymore00:50
hggdhCan I vote?00:51
pedro3005seidos00:51
duanedesignya00:51
paultaghggdh: I think so, you're a member now :)00:51
duanedesign:)00:51
hggdh+100:51
MootBot+1 received from hggdh. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 800:51
MrChrisDruifhggdh: Your a member ;)00:51
duanedesignhe catches on quick00:51
paultagduanedesign: inorite?00:51
duanedesign[ENDVOTE]00:51
MootBotFinal result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 800:51
duanedesignwoo hoo00:51
hggdhcharlie-tca is worth it ;-)00:51
MrChrisDruifCongratz charlie-tca :)00:51
charlie-tcaThank you00:51
jledbetterCongratulions charlie-tca :)00:51
paultagcharlie-tca: 'grats00:51
duanedesigncollinp: did yiu want to say something?00:52
hggdhyeee, I am not the newest member anymore00:52
PabloRubianescharlie-tca, congrats!!!00:52
jledbetters/Congratulions/Congratulations/00:52
duanedesigncharlie-tca: welcome00:52
collinpOh, yes.00:52
phillwcharlie-tca: and hggdh welcome to UBT.00:52
UndiFineDduanedesign:could we vote on JackyAlcine and / or MrChrisDruif ?00:52
pedro3005and seidos !00:52
collinpWe need more members for the Dev FG. I was staving off due to the team structure changes, but I think this would be the best time to announce that, since most of the team is here.00:52
MrChrisDruif=-O00:52
hajourduanedesign,  can JackyAlcine  be next time on the list for to become ubt member ?00:52
duanedesignheh, seidos is like mohi00:52
collinpThe current member list for the Dev FG, I can count on two hands.00:52
duanedesignyou mean he is not a member yet!00:52
collinpThe active members I could count on one hand.00:52
pedro3005duanedesign, he's been my padawan for about a year00:53
duanedesigncollinp: you are rifght00:53
collinpIf you're interested in joining.. well, let me get the wiki page.00:53
pedro3005i can't stand that guy anymore! make him a member already00:53
MrChrisDruifpedro3005: A year?00:53
pedro3005:P just kidding00:53
pedro3005he's cool00:53
jledbettercollinp, Aren't we a member if we're on launchpad?00:53
collinpjledbetter: You're a member if you're in the Launchpad team, yes.00:53
duanedesigni know there is a lot of interest in the Dev FG...00:53
pedro3005MrChrisDruif, he became my padawan less than a week after I became a member myself00:53
collinpBut first, there's a process.00:53
jledbetterWoots00:54
MrChrisDruifpedro3005: Same with UndiFineD and me :)00:54
collinpIf you want it simply put, it's me checking that you have the credentials enough to be a productive member of the team (not very much) and helping you if you don't.00:54
MrChrisDruifMaybe two weeks...didn't count O:-)00:54
collinpSo apply to the Launchpad group and I'll get to you on IRC to ensure that you have the credentials for the team.00:54
duanedesign[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development00:55
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development00:55
jledbetterThat's a nice idea to help folks get there, collinp00:55
duanedesigndev FG is aweosme.00:55
pedro3005so, let's please consider. the poor guy will go on an existential crisis00:55
phillwMrChrisDruif: this is a marathon, not a sprint. take your time and get to know other members :)00:55
duanedesignok seidos00:55
collinpRage. I can't find the wiki page.00:55
seidospedro3005: couldn't you just make a program to automagically confirm members?00:55
collinpSo I'll just have to list them out manually.00:56
jledbettercollinp, Is it the one duanedesign linked?00:56
* seidos laments and gnashes his teeth00:56
=== davidm_ is now known as Guest14614
MrChrisDruifphillw: I didn't mention being voted upon O:-)00:56
collinpjledbetter: That's the team's Wiki page, but not the one I'm looking for.00:56
jledbetterAh ok00:56
pedro3005seidos, but, democracy!00:56
duanedesignwe will do MrChrisDruif  and JackyAlcine next meeting so if you have not met them yet take a minute to say hi00:56
collinpOk. Knowing or be learning a programming language is the biggest one.00:56
seidospedro3005: have everyone vote on your program ;)00:56
jledbetterEven Java? ;)00:56
MrChrisDruifHai :D00:56
collinpAny programming language will do.00:56
collinpjledbetter: Yes, even java.00:56
jledbetterhaha :D00:57
pedro3005seidos, that program exists, it's called MootBot00:57
collinp(sadly) but uh00:57
collinpNo, I'm kidding.00:57
pedro3005yeah00:57
pedro3005we don't take java programmers00:57
jledbetter:'(00:57
UndiFineDalright duanedesign00:57
duanedesignok00:57
* jledbetter takes her blocks and goes home00:57
seidosi wish i knew java, heh00:57
collinpKnowing your way around bug trackers and release systems is preferred.00:57
collinpThat's about all that I can think of.00:57
pedro3005jledbetter, it's okay. you can still repent your sins. haskell will show you the way to salvation00:57
jledbetterhaha Haskell? hahahahaha00:58
jledbetterYeah bug tracker, versioning (bzr/git), yep yep00:58
* pedro3005 grumbles00:58
pedro3005enough dev chat?00:59
duanedesign:)00:59
collinpTypical knowledge of development tools is preferred.00:59
collinpNow I'm done.00:59
jledbetterNever! But ok.00:59
pedro3005we can diverge to -dev if necessary00:59
duanedesignanything else?00:59
pedro3005uhm... the voting...00:59
duanedesignAre we going to make seidos wait one more month00:59
duanedesign:)00:59
seidoswhere is confirmation recorded?00:59
seidosa wiki?01:00
hakimsheriffAM I allowed to vote?01:00
seidosi could just go and update it...01:00
collinpseidos: Hm?01:00
hakimsheriffI am not a full memebr yet01:00
duanedesignhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/seidos01:00
seidoshakimsheriff: why not?01:00
UndiFineDhakimsheriff: nope01:00
MrChrisDruifWell, then you've got the same luck as me :D01:00
MrChrisDruifhakimsheriff ^01:00
hakimsheriffMohi says soon01:01
MrChrisDruifYou have the pleasure to see the rest of the members make their votes :P01:01
hakimsheriffMaybe next meeting01:01
duanedesign[VOTE] seidos for member01:01
MootBotPlease vote on:  seidos for member.01:01
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot01:01
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting01:01
seidosi'll just add myself as a mentor on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors01:01
duanedesign+!01:01
* seidos puts on the stone of triumph01:01
duanedesign+101:01
MootBot+1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 101:01
collinp+101:01
MootBot+1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 201:01
pedro3005+101:01
MootBot+1 received from pedro3005. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 301:01
UndiFineD+101:01
MootBot+1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 401:01
phillw+101:01
MootBot+1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 501:01
* pedro3005 pokes paultag to vote01:01
duanedesignseidos: going once01:01
duanedesigntwice01:01
duanedesignthree times01:01
seidos+101:01
MootBot+1 received from seidos. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 601:01
duanedesignsold01:02
MrChrisDruifxD01:02
seidosseis01:02
duanedesign[ENDVOTE]01:02
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 601:02
duanedesignyaa01:02
pedro3005I feel like a ton has been lifted from my shoulder!01:02
* pedro3005 laughs01:02
MrChrisDruifseidos: Voting on yourself ;)01:02
jledbetterlol01:02
seidosMrChrisDruif: i wanted to exercise my democratic rights01:02
duanedesignlets put the other two on the agenda for the next meeting?01:02
seidosthanks your honors01:03
* seidos gives everyone a pen01:03
hajouro i missed the vote +1 from me for seidos01:03
duanedesignalso if anyone wants to help with the post meeting tasks01:03
duanedesignplease come to -team01:03
paultagOh crud01:03
paultag+101:03
paultagduh, of course01:03
phillwduanedesign: I'd back Jacky 100%, the work he is doing on speechcontrol is wonderful.01:03
pedro3005seidos, you're a cool kid now01:03
paultagseidos: +1 for sure01:03
hajourme to duanedesign01:04
duanedesignKeep BeginnersTeam/TeamReports updated.01:04
duanedesignUpdate Next meeting time on the wiki01:04
duanedesignSend meeting minutes to ubuntu-beginners mailing list\01:04
seidospaultag: snarky comment01:04
paultagseidos: clever retort01:04
duanedesignthank you everyone01:04
seidosthe polls have closed!01:04
* seidos cries01:04
duanedesigngrreat meeting!01:04
duanedesignhaha grrreat01:04
pedro3005we laughed, we cried01:04
jledbetter \o/01:04
duanedesigni am tony the tiger01:04
seidospaultag: if anyone asks, it was 7 votes to 001:04
duanedesign#endmeeting01:04
MootBotMeeting finished at 19:04.01:04
pedro3005but time is fleeting01:04
jledbetterfor reals01:04
hakimsheriffBye all01:04
UndiFineDthanks everyone01:04
pedro3005and for complex numbers too01:05
* jledbetter slips back to -team01:05
seidosi am zach the zebra01:05
duanedesigncongrats to the new members01:05
MrChrisDruifYeah, congratz seidos :)01:05
UndiFineDyep congrats hggdh , charlie-tca and seidos01:05
seidosthanks MrChrisDruif01:05
hajouri have a question .we need stil 4 python and 4 C++ programmers we try to get open mary in natty01:05
hggdhUndiFineD: thank you01:05
hajouri talk further in #ubuntu-beginners-team01:06
macohey beginners team people01:06
macowhats with the C++ class that your wiki page says happens at 15:00 on saturdays and didnt?01:07
UndiFineDdont know maco01:08
hajourcollinp,  do you now it ? what maco ask01:08
collinpNo idea.01:08
pedro3005we should probably take that off the wiki01:09
pedro3005maco, DiegoTc was going to teach it, showed up once and never again. at least that's what I saw01:09
hajourcollinp,  i am become a mentor but seams me better to begin with 1 mentee01:09
macoi see01:10
macopeople were in -classroom early saturday asking what timezone the 15:00 meant and so ...cue utc explanation.... and then i scrolled back and saw it didnt happen and then wondered if the wiki was just for a specific week or what01:11
seidosdate -R01:12
seidosgreat command01:12
=== emma is now known as em
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
=== davidm_ is now known as Guest66174
=== JamieBen1ett is now known as JamieBennett
=== artir is now known as Artir
=== evilvish is now known as vish
=== davidm_ is now known as Guest36164
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
=== JackyAlcine is now known as JackyAlcine|away
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch
cjwatsonhi foundations folks16:00
evhiya16:00
barryhi16:01
robbiewo/16:01
cjwatsonRobbie has a conflict, so asked me to chair16:01
cjwatson(sorry, mumble discussion :-) )16:04
cjwatson#startmeeting16:04
MootBotMeeting started at 10:04. The chair is cjwatson.16:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:04
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
cjwatson[TOPIC] Lightning round16:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Lightning round16:05
* cjwatson looks round16:05
cjwatsonjames_w:16:05
cjwatsonoops!16:05
cjwatsonok, backwards order in the directory :)16:05
cjwatsonjhunt: how's the week been?16:05
james_whi!16:05
jhuntOut Friday+Monday. Submitted byobu merge proposal for my UTF-816:05
jhuntnotification utilities and kirkland has now accepted these. Blog post to16:05
jhuntfollow with some screenshots when I get a chance. Played a bit with my16:05
jhuntinteractive boot idea for Upstart (looking vaguely promising at this16:05
jhuntpoint :) Documented my thoughts on how we could enhance the testing for16:05
jhuntUpstart.  Most of the time spent working on unit + functional tests for16:05
jhuntUpstart visualisation (requiring unit test framework changes and lots of16:06
jhuntmacros to make the test code understandable! :-) Have documented tests16:06
jhuntand am currently working through coding. Have now arranged weekly call16:06
jhuntwith Keybuk. Today, more Upstart tests and started to review patches for16:06
jhuntlp:#643289.16:06
jhuntEOT16:06
james_wI'm afraid to say I haven't contributed much to foundations this week ;-)16:06
cjwatsonjames_w: yep, sorry ;-)16:06
barryjames_w: please make sure you do better next week :)16:07
cjwatsonjhunt: cool.  good news on the branch maintenance front by the looks of things too16:07
jhuntindeed - I forgot to bring that up earlier!16:08
mvobarry: just fyi, I run the python-all auto-upgrade test currently (but its a bit on the slow side, my hdd could be faster it seems)16:08
barrymvo: thanks16:09
cjwatsonpsurbhi1: how about you?  (Sorry I haven't got anywhere with your mdadm fixes branch - I asked mvo this afternoon if he could have a look at it)16:10
psurbhi1cjwatson, np16:10
psurbhi1* worked on nfs-util bug 709392 on thursday, friday and a little bit of today (out of curiosity)16:10
psurbhi1* worked on getting mountall in initramfs - printing and debugging - no major success yet.16:10
psurbhi1(done)16:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 709392 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Lucid) "NFS client does not submit "nfs_file_sync" write requests when the file open call includes O_SYNC." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70939216:10
mvopsurbhi1: I'm happy to have a look, haven't manged before the meeting unfortunately16:10
psurbhi1mvo, np at all.. the merges are for lucid and maverick16:11
cjwatsonpsurbhi1: thanks, give me a shout if you need another set of eyeballs on mountall16:12
cjwatsonmvo: ?16:12
mvoapt: upload backport for apt-ftparchive --arch for soyuz, branch merges, debugging, work on lp:~mvo/apt/dpointer;16:13
mvoAuto-upgrade-tester: add simulate profile, cleanup exception, improve overview html;16:13
mvoBtfs natty test install; Gdebi: fix gio branch; Jockey: fix pkgfile parser bug lp:~mvo/jockey/fix-multiple-modules-in-packages-file;16:13
mvosoftware-center: work with didrocks on onecnf, add tests for the netstatus branch, review/merges branches; Soyuz: test support-timeframe-fix with bigjools; Unattended-upgrades: bug triage, add much improved matching; update-manager: improve details display, upload new version with poprted modalises code; Xserver-xorg-video-intel: backport fix for xserver-xorg-video-intel #70723616:13
psurbhi1cjwatson, ok, thanks!16:13
cjwatsonmvo: have you done a btrfs test install since yesterday, or was this the previous one?16:15
cjwatsonI think it should actually work now16:15
psurbhi1mvo, cjwatson, is the btrfs test install working?16:16
mvocjwatson: that was the previous one - cool, I will do one today then16:16
cjwatsonpsurbhi1: it ran into some grub breakage (actually fairly small but rather fatal) - I fixed that16:16
psurbhi1cjwatson, ok, thanks!16:16
mvo\o/16:16
psurbhi1:)16:16
* mvo runs rsync16:16
cjwatsonthe installer side was fine except that the subvolumes needed to be made world-readable16:17
cjwatsonbut I think today's daily build should be all working, assuming it built16:17
psurbhi1ok, i will have a look at it too16:17
cjwatsondoko is on holiday16:18
cjwatsonev: ?16:18
evDigging at the X handover in oem-config some more with advice from Scott on the correct approach, usb-creator KVM option, console-setup and xkb-data fixes, timezone widget discussions with GNOME, some bug gardening16:18
ev(done)16:18
cjwatsonoh, is GNOME interested?16:19
evindeed, it's largely going upstream16:19
* ev digs up the blog post16:19
cjwatsonthat's very cool16:20
mvonice16:20
evhttp://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel16:20
MootBotLINK received:  http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel16:20
mvohm, are there missing credits in this post ?16:21
* cjwatson moves on16:23
cjwatsonmy week (short, I was on holiday on Monday): GRUB btrfs installation fixes (#712029); OpenSSH/hardy fix for IPv6-only hosts (#713002); packaged OpenSSH 5.8p1; porting work; obscure octave3.2 failure on lucid and maverick (#546671); misc grub-install16:23
cjwatsoner bugs16:23
evmvo: credited in the source code header, which is all I care about really.16:24
mvofair enough16:24
cdbsis this the foundation team meeting?16:24
cjwatsoncdbs: yes16:24
cjwatsonbarry: ?16:24
barrybug 686257 (python-keyring); bug 702375 (launchpadlib); bug 712136 (pymca); bug 697792 (fuse); bug 664276 (python-numpy); python-libavg review; platform futures meeting; python27 transition analysis/work; udd docs merge into ubuntu dev guide; still need to work out the whole numpy-matplotlib-wxgtk2.8 dependency tangle; done.16:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 686257 in python-keyring (Ubuntu) "upgrade to python-keyring 0.5.1 (and MIR)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68625716:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 702375 in python-launchpadlib (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade to 1.9.5" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70237516:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 712136 in pymca (Ubuntu) "Please merge pymca 4.4.1p1-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71213616:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 697792 in fuse (Ubuntu Lucid) "permissions of /etc/fuse.conf are reset on upgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69779216:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 664276 in python-numpy (Ubuntu Natty) "python-numpy doc related build failure" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66427616:25
cjwatsonok, thanks all, I am a slow lightning-guider today16:27
cjwatson[TOPIC] Alpha-3 bugs16:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha-3 bugs16:27
cjwatsonour beloved release manager is concerned about bug levels :-)16:27
cjwatsonI'd like to ask that everyone make a habit of regularly looking at these two URLs and seeing what you can prune out of them16:28
cjwatsonhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda#Foundations16:28
cjwatsonhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=3357316:29
cjwatsonperhaps we could take a quick run through critical/high in the latter now16:30
cjwatsonbug 693671 - anyone have a Windows system and fancy attacking this?16:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 693671 in Ubuntu Natty "wubi install will not boot - phase 2 stops with: Try (hd0,0): NTFS5" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69367116:30
cjwatsonbug 605042 - looks like ours, but blocked on kernel team16:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 605042 in eglibc (Ubuntu Natty) "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60504216:30
cjwatsonbug 63466416:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 634664 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Updates not downloaded during install when selected and internet is available" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63466416:31
barrycjwatson: i have w7 in a vm so i can at least take a look16:31
cjwatsonbug 683260 - this was one of the top ISO testing bugs last time round16:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 683260 in casper (Ubuntu Natty) "persistence doesn't work on liveusb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68326016:31
cjwatsonbarry: great, let me know if you need orientation in the baroqueness of wubi16:31
barrycjwatson: will do :)16:31
cjwatsonleaving out gcc bugs since doko isn't here16:31
cjwatsonbug 70591716:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 705917 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "kde frontend keyboard selector broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70591716:32
evequally available for wubi assistance16:32
cjwatsonbug 71266216:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 712662 in bash (Ubuntu Karmic) "network redirection has been enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71266216:32
barryev: ack16:32
cjwatson(actually, that last is assigned to doko already)16:33
evI'll dig at bug 68326016:33
mvolooks like 671016 is in progress, but we need to find the right words, I will see how I can improve it16:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 683260 in casper (Ubuntu Natty) "persistence doesn't work on liveusb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68326016:33
cjwatsonI'm guessing 705917 is my fault, I'll take a look at that16:34
evoh thanks.  I started to pick at that a bit, but got caught up in the xkb-data/console-setup stuff, so ultimately didn't get far16:35
cjwatsonah, didn't know you were on it.  yeah, it's very easy to end up yak-shaving with that stuff16:36
cjwatsonok, that's enough bugs to be getting on with, I think, but it will definitely help if as many people as possible stay on top of those lists16:36
cjwatson[TOPIC] AOB / Good news16:36
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB / Good news16:36
cjwatsonDebian released, in case anyone's been living under a rock ;-)16:36
evI'm all booked for pycon16:37
* barry has to do the same16:37
barryfwiw, python 3.2 final is getting another rc, so final release pushed back a week16:38
cjwatsonok, all done by the looks of things :016:41
cjwatson:)16:41
cjwatsonthanks all16:41
cjwatson#endmeeting16:41
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:41.16:41
barrythanks cjwatson16:41
psurbhi1cjwatson, thanks16:41
mvothanks!16:42
evthanks16:43
jhuntthx!16:44
highvoltageHowdy!18:58
highvoltageAnyone around for the Edubuntu meeting?18:58
doctormoI'm here18:58
mgariepyi am here too18:58
alkisg_webHi all18:58
hajouryou are beginning now ?18:58
highvoltageyep18:59
* stgraber waves and go away for another meeting18:59
hajouri wanted only to say i am busy to get a school in netherland use edubuntu18:59
highvoltageI'll just quickly spew some updates before we talk to doctormo, he's willing to create a wallpaper for us18:59
hajourprimary school19:00
highvoltagehajour: cool, I know of one school (or I think organisation) called Het Hooghuis which also does in the netherlands19:00
highvoltageLast week we release alpha 2, it was kind of nasty because of the amd64 webkit bug, but other than that it went quite well19:01
hajouri have some questions still about it where can i go for to get answers about it19:01
highvoltageand we're mostly on track so far19:01
highvoltageSome of the alpha 2 todo items were pushed out to alpha 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:01
hajouryes i know its a other province city there is oss19:01
highvoltagehajour: #edubuntu19:01
hajourthank you very much highvoltage19:02
highvoltagehajour: or otherwise any of the methods on http://edubuntu.org/community :)19:02
highvoltage(although except for the mailing lists it's usually the same few people active)19:02
hajourthank you sorry for the disturb19:02
highvoltageno you're welcome!19:02
hajour:)19:03
highvoltagewe also have our first edubuntu-specific security vulnerability, I can't discuss the details yet publically because the fix is currently being prepared for the archives19:03
highvoltageI'll send more details about that to the edubuntu-devel list within the next 12-48 hours. we might get quite a lot of questions about that so we should be ready19:04
=== davidm_ is now known as Guest19757
highvoltageover the last weekend I saw this card on doctormo's blog: http://edubuntu.org/communitydoctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry319:05
highvoltageoops, http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry319:05
highvoltageI like the style and doctormo indicated that he's willing to put some effort into a wallpaper for us if we can commit to it19:06
highvoltagebasically he doesn't want to put a lot of time into it if it's going to be wasted, which is understandable19:06
highvoltagewe currently have the artwork team creating some wallpapers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper19:07
highvoltagecurrent submissions on http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-6/19:07
highvoltageI'm not sure what you guys think, but personally it sounds like a good idea to go with doctormo if he can commit to see it through19:08
doctormohighvoltage: I'm trying to upload an updated version for you.19:08
* highvoltage wonders if mhall119 is around19:08
* mhall119 is19:08
highvoltagemhall119: good, you usually have an opinion about this kind of thing :)19:09
mhall119I like doctormo's circuit image best19:09
highvoltageI liked that too19:09
mhall119the elephants image on flickr second best, but elephant != narwhal, and that might be confusing19:10
mhall119give that past animal wallpapers have matched the release mascot19:10
doctormoWhat I would like for you both to do mhall119 and highvoltage is put aside your asthetic and think about solid things you want and want to avoid.19:10
doctormoSo, no clishays(sp)19:10
highvoltageclichés, yes19:10
highvoltagewell, not the old boring ones at least19:10
mhall119I'd say no words (unless they're for asthetics not reading)19:11
doctormoThe artwork team is coming to a consensus on the format of requests that edubuntu should be aware of19:11
highvoltageyeah we mentioned no text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper19:11
mhall119not cartoonish either19:11
doctormoCompetitions are no ok for artwork unless they are designed to foster a learning experience between artists.19:12
doctormoAll artwork should probably be matched up with artists who your happy to work with and who you trust and who are willing to work with you.19:12
mhall119can we trust doctormo?19:12
highvoltageI like cartoonish, but that's just me, and also why we need larger input (because I love the cartoonish style of http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3)19:12
highvoltagemhall119: I have no idea19:13
highvoltagemhall119: he seems sincere :)19:13
mhall119that hat makes him look shifty19:13
highvoltageit does.19:13
mhall119I'm not even sure he's really a doctor19:13
highvoltagelike doctor evil?19:13
doctormoI'm a witch doctor, next question! ;-)19:13
highvoltageI'm not sure how to approach this19:14
* cody-somerville has always enjoyed the abstract realism type artwork Fedora uses for their wallpaper.19:15
highvoltageif we're going to make a wiki page and spam the list/identica/etc to comment on it we're going to end up with a page with lots of contradictions and something that's not clear enough for doctormo to work from19:15
doctormohighvoltage: Imagine you needed code contributions.19:15
highvoltagecostales: *nod*19:15
doctormoDefinition, concept and mood. That's all I need.19:15
costaleshi highvoltage19:15
highvoltagedoctormo: the difference with code and artwork is that code usually has few right ways of doing it. I think there are many ways to have nice wallpapers19:16
doctormoI can make several different non-complete works and you can pick between them and then I'll finish the one you want.19:16
* highvoltage makes some notes about what doctormo needs19:16
highvoltagedoctormo: that sounds great19:17
highvoltagedoctormo: pretty much the biggest things I can think of is that our panels are very light in colour, so having a wallpaper that's not too light would be great (the low contrast is a problem with the current wallpaper)19:18
doctormohighvoltage: Also check the updated version: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Underwater-Stream-19656026519:18
highvoltagedoctormo: other than ideally having no text, and avoiding the usual clichés that we've seen a million times, I don't think there's really any hard limits, I'd like to give you as much artistic license as possible19:19
doctormoBefore the set of 5 concept works, I'll need those three things from you guys.19:19
doctormoAs well as the rules. Which seem to consist of: no cartoons, no cliches, no text.19:20
highvoltageok, we'll get those to you by friday. I'll spam the usual contact means and if people don't respons then they'll have to be happy with what I suggest to you :)19:20
* doctormo thinks that if he really had free license, he'd make a 100% black wallpaper and you'd have to use it ;-)19:21
highvoltagestrictly speaking, that *would* fit the current criterea we gave you :)19:22
highvoltagedoctormo: ok, so we'll get back to you on friday at with that information. either that or if people aren't happy with giving up on the artwork team I'll let you know19:23
highvoltagethe artwork team's work is good and we'll include it on the disc, I'm just not fond of using it for a default19:23
highvoltageoh hi costales :)19:24
doctormohighvoltage: I am doing this as part of the artwork team19:25
highvoltagedoctormo: ok, that's really good, do you talk to john baer at all?19:25
doctormoConsider the that there is a little bit of a fork, there is me, thorwil and the canonical people and then there is a seperate prong.19:26
highvoltageok, that answers my question exactly19:26
highvoltageanything else for the edubuntu meeting?19:27
doctormothat consists of baer who believes in wikipedia style, mass competition style amateur art and the extensive use of flikr. Which can work...19:27
highvoltageyeah19:29
highvoltagewell, I guess that's it for this meeting then, we can continue in #edubuntu then :)19:30
highvoltage*GONG*19:30
doctormothanks highvoltage19:30
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-bbl
pooliehi21:01
poolieUbuntu DistributedDevelopment meeting starting now; all welcome21:01
poolie#startmeeting21:01
MootBotMeeting started at 15:01. The chair is poolie.21:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:01
* slangasek waves21:01
jelmerme21:02
jelmerhi slangasek21:02
poolie[topic] attendees21:02
MootBotNew Topic:  attendees21:02
pooliehi jelmer, slangasek21:02
pooliebarry sent apologies21:02
wendarlistening in21:02
pooliejames_w, hi?21:03
james_whi21:03
james_wsorry I'm late :-)21:03
poolienp :)21:03
poolieagenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110209#preview21:03
jamhi21:03
poolie[topic] action items21:03
MootBotNew Topic:  action items21:03
poolie* poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list21:04
pooliedone!21:04
jamI do believe I saw that \o/21:04
poolieactually i sent it to canonical-tech21:04
pooliewant to try it?21:04
pooliei got one response already, which is good21:04
poolieperhaps i should forward it to ubuntu-platform?21:04
james_wcool21:04
jampoolie: "want to try it"? try what?21:04
james_wI would21:04
poolieworking on bzr :)21:04
james_wjam, try a rotation to the bzr team?21:04
poolieok21:04
jamah21:04
jamsure, I'll rotate to bzr for 6 months21:05
pooliei wonder if we can send a similar invitation to non-canonical-staff?21:05
pooliejust as a thing they might be interested to work on21:05
poolieperhaps a post that gets to the planet is best21:05
james_wyeah, I think that would be best21:05
poolie[action] poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform21:05
MootBotACTION received:  poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform21:05
poolie[action] poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors21:06
MootBotACTION received:  poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors21:06
james_wposting with things to do and ways to get started can help21:06
poolieright21:06
poolie* poolie to update hot bugs for next meeting21:06
pooliedone21:06
pooliewe're now using assignment to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-bazaar/+assignedbugs> to track our short list21:06
jampoolie: is that just ~canonical-bazaar, or is there a different list of 'hot' bugs?21:06
pooliei think just that's enough21:07
poolieand that also shows up in https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html21:07
pooliewhich i propose we use to review them in a bit21:07
poolieto review which particular bugs are listed, and whether anything else should be21:07
poolieany comments on this?21:07
jelmerpoolie: So we use that to track our hot bugs list, then reassign to a specific person when we actually start hacking?21:08
pooliecorrect21:08
pooliethe kanban shows bugs assigned to the team or its members21:08
poolieit would be nice to show this in lp itself too21:09
poolie(i wonder if there's a bug for that)21:09
poolieok, moving on21:09
james_wpoolie, is that assigned list *the* queue to work from?21:09
poolieyes, it is21:09
james_wok21:10
james_wso we should prioritise and put the most important in that list, and drop things that aren't that important?21:10
pooliepeople can also take reactive/opportunistic/itch-scratching bugs of course, but they should be taking a lot of work from there21:10
james_wover time I mean21:10
pooliewith the caveat that bugs they've specifically individually taken from that page won't show up21:10
poolieas i mentioned above21:10
pooliecorrect, we should21:10
pooliei hope during the bug review phase of this meeting we'll do some of that21:10
james_wok21:11
james_wthanks21:11
poolieevery fortnight21:11
poolie* poolie to file bug about MOTD information for out-of-date packages21:11
pooliedone21:11
pooliebut not assigned?21:12
jelmerthere was also a very old bug by spiv, perhaps that should be marked as a dupe?21:12
jelmerbug 12120121:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 121201 in Bazaar "Allow servers to give clients a MOTD" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12120121:12
poolieit seems like we could use that to implement this21:13
poolieok21:14
pooliehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/60918721:14
ubottuUbuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzr branch lp:ubuntu/foo should warn when foo is out of date" [High,Triaged]21:14
poolieand it actually is assigned21:14
poolieand barry filed it21:14
jelmerah, ok21:15
jampoolie: next?21:16
poolie* jam to review spiv's branch for bug 60339521:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60339521:16
jamI didn't get to it, but poolie did, so still done21:16
pooliei know spiv did some of them21:17
pooliebut the bug's still open?21:17
poolieanyhow, spiv seems to be progressing on it21:17
poolie* barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit21:17
pooliei think he did21:17
jampoolie: the line-item was about the review, not closing the bug....21:17
poolieright, it doesn't require review now anyhow21:18
pooliespiv fixed a bunch of related bugs21:18
poolie* barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit21:18
poolieblah21:18
poolie* jam to follow up on pristine-tar stuff21:18
jampoolie: I know barry talked about debcommit, I didn't see a bug on it21:18
jampoolie: pristine-tar was updated, many packages fixed, a small handful still failing21:18
jamso done for that level21:18
jamit is no longer the #1 failure in the importer21:19
poolieanything more to do?21:19
jampoolie: we've done what that item was meant to be. I think investigating future failing imports is just regular stuff21:19
poolieok21:20
poolie[topic] LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary21:20
MootBotNew Topic:  LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary21:20
pooliewe have a lep proposing our major feature here21:20
pooliei have some questions from jml to fill it out a bit more21:20
poolie[action] poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep21:20
MootBotACTION received:  poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep21:20
poolie[action] poolie to meet with allison re lep21:20
MootBotACTION received:  poolie to meet with allison re lep21:20
poolie[action] poolie to meet with robbiew re lep21:21
MootBotACTION received:  poolie to meet with robbiew re lep21:21
robbiewhuh?21:21
pooliewe need to get it triaged for launchpad if we want a feature squad to work on it21:21
poolie:) hi21:21
pooliei have an action to show you https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary and see what you say :)21:21
robbiewah..cool21:21
robbiewsorry to interrupt ;)21:21
* robbiew goes back into his cave21:22
poolienp, consider yourself shown21:22
pooliecan we set a time separately to look at it, or could you just mail me feedback?21:23
poolie("i don't understand what you're talking about" is ok feedback if that's the case)21:23
poolieok21:24
poolie[topic] Package importer progress21:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Package importer progress21:24
pooliethe big thing here is that we went through the wheezy release, which caused a bunch of disruption21:24
poolieincluding bug 71500021:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 715000 in Bazaar 2.3 "Stacking is not fully transitive" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71500021:24
pooliethe fix for which should be deployed today21:25
pooliei think after that we can restart the importer21:25
pooliein fact, probably we could restart it now, but it might give the importer indigestion21:25
james_wis that being rolled out to jubany as well?21:25
pooliethe fixed bzr?21:25
jamjames_w: aiui jubany doesn't care21:26
jamlp does21:26
poolieit probably should be, but i haven't specifically seen it fail there21:26
jampackage_import.py doesn't trigger that code path that was having problems with double stacking21:26
james_wyeah, the fixed bzr21:26
pooliei think it only affects log on a doubly-stacked branch21:26
james_wok, if you've verified then I'm happy21:26
pooliei think we should just wait for it to be in 2.3.1 or 2.4b1 and then roll that out21:26
james_wit /does/ do some interrogation of branches over hpss though21:27
poolieok21:27
jamjames_w: it affects rev_id => dotted_revno code, but I don't think you hit that in importing.21:27
poolieare we ok to just fix it if it fails?21:27
james_wsee get_unimported_revisions or roundabout21:27
james_wif that's how you want to do it then I'm fine with that21:27
jampoolie: I agree, I think if we see package imports failing, it just becomes a high priority to roll out the code on jubany21:27
pooliei'll add a task21:28
pooliei think the wheezy addition has caused a bump in the number of failures21:28
poolieat any rate the graph has gone up21:28
pooliehopefully once this is all done it will be back down21:28
pooliei am pleased by the increasing amount of work on the importer21:29
jampoolie: is there another bug to restack deb branches to sid?21:29
jamwhich is also a workaround for this ug21:29
jambug21:29
jamsince you don't end up with double-stacking21:29
pooliealso under that heading, i made a plan with charlies and mthaddon that we'll move it to pepo and (if possible) give up login access on the 1st of March21:29
pooliei think there is21:29
slangasekwrt the importer... where is that code published?  I don't see any links to the code from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment21:30
jamslangasek: lp:udd21:30
pooliegood question21:30
slangasekah21:30
slangasekif this could be linked more prominently, perhaps it would help with getting extra-canonical folks involved21:30
poolieexcellent point21:30
pooliei'll file abug21:30
jamslangasek: tbh, I doubt it, but I'm happy for it to be more prominently linked21:30
slangasekjam: maybe it is wishful thinking... there've been a few importer bugs that I would've been keen to at least look at, if I'd been able to find the code more readily :)21:31
poolieit's true21:31
jammost of the import code itself is in bzr-builddeb, but sure21:31
pooliewe can say that too21:32
pooliebug 716123, marked easy21:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 716123 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "web page should tell where to get the source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71612321:32
poolieany other comments on the package importer?21:32
jampoolie: I'm poking around trying to get feedback for how people want imports to look, especially wrt quilt imports21:33
poolietrue21:34
pooliethanks for doing that21:34
poolieit's looking like they really should be imported to looms21:34
jelmeryeah, I think quilt imports will be important21:34
jamyeah, but that still leaves us with "and what does that actually mean" :)21:34
jamalso, that wouldn't strictly block a switchover21:34
jamso i'm not 100% sure what the importance is21:34
jamThe discussion has been very useful for me to start understanding what is actually going on, though.21:35
james_w(http://paste.ubuntu.com/565180/ is what the importer does over hpss, so I think it should be fine)21:35
jamjames_w: it isn't strictly an hpss thing, any double-stacked branch will fail during log, etc (even purely locally)21:35
jelmerjam: Yeah :)21:35
poolieshall we add an action for next time for you to summarize where we got to?21:35
jampoolie: sure21:36
james_wjam, right, but we talk over hpss to LP, which has some double stacked branches21:36
jamsounds like a good action item21:36
poolie[topic] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports21:36
MootBotNew Topic:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports21:36
poolieincidentally, i'm going to be on leave 2 weeks from today21:36
pooliejust for a long weekend21:36
james_weverything else is done locally with no stacking, apart from fetch, which we know is fine21:36
slangaseks/topic/action/?21:36
pooliemoving on21:36
poolieyou're right21:37
poolie[action] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports21:37
MootBotACTION received:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports21:37
poolie[topic] hot bug review21:37
MootBotNew Topic:  hot bug review21:37
poolieshould that be 'revue'? :)21:37
poolie[url] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html21:37
pooliethat's a bit large to read the whole thing21:37
slangasek[link] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html21:37
MootBotLINK received:  https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html21:37
pooliebut i think it may be a good way to track whether we're working on the right htings21:38
james_wpoolie, I'll start referring to you all as the bzr troupe21:38
poolieso let's focus on things near the top (critical/high) and in the middle (in progress etc)21:38
jampoolie: when did we start getting big red ! ?21:38
jamand what does that actually mean?21:39
poolietoday, apparently21:39
pooliejamu must have added it21:39
poolie"in review for more than 3 days"21:39
jelmerjam: it looks like the time the bug has been in progress21:39
poolieor in progress for more than 7 days21:39
pooliei kind of envy landscape if it's a big (!) for something to take more than 7 days21:39
pooliebut perhaps we can get there too if we reduce our wip21:39
slangasekwhat's the process for moving from needs testing -> verified? I was all ready to jump on testing bug #706990, I see someone has already followed up to the bug to say it's fixed21:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 706990 in Bazaar Git Plugin "git-import fails on remote repository with AttributeError: 'RemoteGitRepository' object has no attribute '_git'" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70699021:39
poolieslangasek, there's a key at the bottom21:40
slangasekaha21:40
pooliethis has been good to work on with jkakar btw21:40
pooliebug 702024 should be good for making lp rollouts less disruptive21:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 702024 in Launchpad itself "Restarting codehosting SSH server drops existing connections" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70202421:41
poolieso, what should we do here?21:41
poolieare there particular bugs that ought to be on here but aren't?21:41
poolieshould we go back to having the meeting review ~10 top bugs?21:41
poolieperhaps we should look at the critical bugs?21:42
jamslangasek: some projects (not bzr) use Fix Committed vs Fix Released, which changes only once there is a full release, not sure that you can release packages, but you could poke the upstreams21:42
pooliei think we have a few too many bugs altogether in-process at the moment21:42
pooliebut i think if we pay attention it will go down21:42
slangasekjam: oh, well, I can at least set the tag on the bugs if things prove ok in my own testing :)21:43
poolieof the bugs mentioned in the previous meeting, all of them are assigned or done, except bug 499684 is assigned to barry21:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 499684 in bzr-builddeb "Interface to dpkg-buildpackage inconsistent and not well documented" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49968421:43
poolies//assigned to canonical-bazaar21:44
poolieok, moving on21:45
poolie[topic] any other business?21:45
MootBotNew Topic:  any other business?21:45
jampoolie: there is a ton of bugs in there on projects that aren't bzr, and thus don't conform to our bug triage standards21:45
jamI'm not sure how kanban should interpret that21:45
slangasekpoolie: I can share some happy news if you like21:46
jamnote that *everything* in Verified is assigned to jelmer21:46
poolieyes, i think he started doing things that way after i set this up21:47
poolieperhaps to see how it works21:47
pooliei think we can fudge it21:47
poolieslangasek, please do21:47
slangasekI wrote up https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr last week with some recipes for using UDD branches within Linaro, and am seeing some good uptake by the team21:47
slangasekthe bad news is that I think I've found every single bug in bzr-git :-)21:47
jelmeryeah, I'd be happy to see Verified gone.. I was just seeing how things worked21:47
slangasekso there are now some official UDD branches in Launchpad with some very rich git history attached21:48
poolieslangasek, wow, that's great, thanks very much21:49
poolielet's make sure those bugs get escalated and addressed21:49
pooliejelmer, i wonder if it would be good for you to pair on fixing those bugs with say vila21:49
poolieto spread the love around21:49
pooliemm, i don't know -what- time zone you're in though :)21:49
jelmerpoolie: the bzr-git bugs? I'd be happy to21:49
pooliemaybe you overlap more with jam?21:49
jampoolie: in a month it will be the same :)21:50
jelmerslangasek: are these all related to pushing into git, or fetching as well?21:50
slangasekjelmer: fetching21:50
slangasekjelmer: 706990 is certainly one I ran into; I've also been dancing on the bleeding edge with qemu-linaro, which has submodule references upstream21:51
poolieslangasek, so if they're blocking your work on this, please make sure they're at least High21:51
jelmerslangasek: perhaps we should bump the importance of some bugs21:51
poolieand assigned to someone21:51
poolie(or if you can't actually triage/assign, just comment asking for it)21:52
slangaseknothing blocking currently as I've routed around the damage in the recipes - but I'm happy to highlight the bugs for your consideration21:52
poolieplease do21:52
pooliethat page is really nice21:53
slangasekwho should I feed the list to? (I can't bump bug priorities myself)21:53
poolieyou can mail it to ubuntu-distributed-devel or you can comment on the bugs21:53
slangasekok21:53
pooliewhichever is easier21:53
poolieyou could forward a link to that page too21:54
slangasekwill do21:54
poolieany other feedback from people who've used it?21:54
poolie[action] poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr21:55
MootBotACTION received:  poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr21:55
slangasekI asked John Rigby to file a bug on bzr-git for his experience of "bzr branch ran for a really long time and then crashed", dunno if he's gotten around to it yet :)21:55
slangasekotherwise the feedback has been positive21:56
pooliegood21:56
poolieplease do get people to file bugs, especially if they can get a traceback and/or -Dhpss trace21:56
pooliewe don't fix them all right away but we are fixing a lot of them21:56
slangasekack21:56
poolieok, i think that's it21:56
pooliehappy hacking, everyone21:57
pooliei'll be on leave from the 23rd and back on the 2nd21:57
poolie#ends21:57
poolie#endmeeting21:57
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:57.21:57
slangasekthanks, all :)21:57
james_wthanks22:00
=== Craig_Dem_ is now known as Craig_Dem
=== Ursinha-bbl is now known as Ursinha

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!