[00:00] <collinp> I'M NOT LATE.
[00:00] <duanedesign> me too :)
[00:00] <phillw> made it with seconds to spare :)
[00:01] <collinp> Oh yes.
[00:01] <UndiFineD> o/
[00:01] <jledbetter> Howdy
[00:01] <duanedesign> #startmeeting
[00:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is duanedesign.
[00:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:01] <duanedesign> hello everyone and thank you for coming
[00:02] <duanedesign> it is awesome to have so many new people joining the team
[00:03] <duanedesign> our mentee seeking mentor list is kinda long
[00:03] <phillw> I'm kidnapping them as fast I can :P
[00:03] <UndiFineD> funny how it turned out exactly as i predicted in august duanedesign
[00:03] <duanedesign> however I notice some of those folks I have never seen in the channel
[00:03]  * jledbetter goes to look at it.
[00:04] <UndiFineD> or was it oktober ... time flies
[00:04] <duanedesign> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:04] <duanedesign> is there anyone here who has not yet been  paired up with antone?
[00:05] <duanedesign> anyone*
[00:05] <hakimsheriff2> Sorry im late
[00:05] <phillw> duanedesign: as people on the mentor list are recommended by their TL's, it is a difficult problem. Do we turn them away are welcome them?
[00:05] <duanedesign> or should that be paired up with someone...:P
[00:05] <collinp> hakimsheriff: No problem. I was -almost- late myself.
[00:05] <jledbetter> Paired up as in 'seeking master'? Right?
[00:05] <phillw> /sare/or
[00:06] <duanedesign> jledbetter: yes a master or mentor
[00:06] <duanedesign> phillw: what is TL?
[00:06] <collinp> Team Leader?
[00:06] <phillw> Team Leader, as per the email sent out.
[00:06]  * jledbetter isn't a mentor or master but has no available time at the moment, unfortunately.
[00:07] <duanedesign> jledbetter: ok, thank you for beiing honest
[00:07] <collinp> I was here before the team was even called what it is now. I guess that classifies as enough experience :P
[00:07] <collinp> Sadly, I have no time either.
[00:07] <jledbetter> That's how I roll :) Maybe next month.
[00:08] <hakimsheriff2> I am not a full member yet so I cant
[00:08] <duanedesign> hakimsheriff2:  do you have a Beginners Team member sho is helping you out?
[00:09] <hakimsheriff2> Mohi is.my mentor
[00:09] <duanedesign> each prospective member should have someone who is helping them join the team and.or joining a team in the community
[00:09] <duanedesign> hakimsheriff2: oh great
[00:09] <duanedesign> he has been a little ill lately. he will be back soon
[00:09] <hakimsheriff2> Thats why I didnt see him
[00:10] <jledbetter> Is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors up to date? Those the only approved masters/mentors?
[00:10] <duanedesign> lets keep an eye out for the people on the mentee list and see who stops by the channel
[00:10] <MrChrisDruif> No member either....even if I was, wouldn't have much time :)
[00:10] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif: you are doing great :)
[00:10] <phillw> hakimsheriff if you need a bit of extra help, I'm sure that pedro would assist you, those two guys work very closely together.
[00:11] <duanedesign> yes mohi has chicken pox :( I think he is on the mends though
[00:11] <hakimsheriff2> Help in what exactly?
[00:11] <collinp> Remember that Ubuntu is purely volunteer work, you contribute only if you have the time for it, so there's no pressure if you can't due to other obligations.
[00:11] <phillw> hakimsheriff in any area.
[00:11] <duanedesign> hakimsheriff2:  anything UBuntu or BT related
[00:12] <hakimsheriff2> Mohi helps me getting involved
[00:12] <duanedesign> collinp: so true. We want this to be fun
[00:12] <hakimsheriff2> It is fun!
[00:12] <jledbetter> fun +1
[00:12] <MrChrisDruif> Suggestion: discuss this after the meeting? O:-)
[00:12] <hakimsheriff2> Sure
[00:13] <pedro3005> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
[00:13] <duanedesign> also all the members of the team are your mentors. Everyone gets someone assigned to them to be a designated contact, but dont be afrais to ask anyone on the team a question
[00:13] <duanedesign> pedro3005: lol
[00:13] <hakimsheriff2> Btw.... My normal nick doesnt hav a 2 in it
[00:13] <duanedesign> jledbetter: yes that is the list
[00:14] <duanedesign> ehich is a good transition into next topic
[00:14] <jledbetter> :)
[00:14] <duanedesign> [TOPIC] more mentors
[00:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  more mentors
[00:14] <duanedesign> ok, we put into place some new requirements to be a mento.
[00:14] <duanedesign> mentor
[00:15] <collinp> Welcome seidos.
[00:15] <duanedesign> basically the community at large wanted some reassurance that our mentors knew their stuff
[00:15] <seidos> gracias collinp
[00:16] <jledbetter> Have to be a Master to be Mentor, right?
[00:16] <duanedesign> if the bug guys or the doc guys are going to send mentees to us they want to make sure we are assigning knowledgable mentors
[00:16] <duanedesign> jledbetter: yes, I think all members are masters
[00:16] <jledbetter> Great.
[00:16] <phillw> duanedesign: there was only one way I could get Manuela happy as a mentor, as she does not fit into any of the main 4 groups, but Accessibility is a vital part of ubuntu. So I put her htere.
[00:17] <phillw> *there*
[00:17] <duanedesign> that makes sense
[00:17] <duanedesign> phillw: we want to start an accessebility FG eventually
[00:17] <duanedesign> so I see no problem with that
[00:17] <jledbetter> That'd be nice.
[00:18] <duanedesign> If you all saw my email earlier today it outlined breifly the requirments to be a mentor
[00:18] <duanedesign> bug fg mentor should be a member of Bug Control
[00:18] <duanedesign> doc FG, doc contributors or wiki admin
[00:18] <phillw> as the TL for speechcontrol and dragging a dormant project back to life, she has done outstanding work.
[00:18] <UndiFineD> I talked with cprofitt on a accessibility FG , he said it would fit in with devs and support
[00:19] <duanedesign> support fg, is based on contributions since their is no community team counterpart
[00:19] <duanedesign> Development FG you should be a Contributing Developers, per-package uploaders, MOTU or Core Developers.
[00:19] <seidos> is there a particular focus group considered to have the most need right now?
[00:20] <duanedesign> hhmmm, good question
[00:20] <MrChrisDruif> Accessibility, as it's a young fg?
[00:20] <duanedesign> ill think about that
[00:21] <duanedesign> i want to encourage all members to be mentors
[00:21] <phillw> seidos: they all need help, but having missed the 10.10 docs, if you are familar with wiki and docs, that team needs a bit of help.
[00:21] <UndiFineD> if an accessibility FG would be created, the people with interest are recommended to be forwarded to #ubuntu-accessibility
[00:21] <seidos> phillw: i have done a bit of wiki
[00:21] <seidos> i was going to say bugs, but you kind of need to know dev to fix code, unless bugs need triaging
[00:22] <duanedesign> If you are already a member of one of the community teams I mentioned, or you feel like you have enough support under your belt please let me or cprofitt know
[00:22] <duanedesign> so we can add you to othe mentor list
[00:23] <jledbetter> Will do
[00:23] <duanedesign> I also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any good ideas for encouraging/helping each other join these teams so we can increase the number of mentors
[00:23] <hajour> i was not on the list but i been made mentor not long ago
[00:23] <phillw> duanedesign: the creation of an accessibility FG would allow more people to feel comfortable, they need not be a member of just one. There are, for example, some excellent coders on the tram. I'd ask that you check with the council
[00:24] <phillw> /s/tram/team/
[00:24] <duanedesign> right now we will probablly do the accessebility FG under another FG until it grows a bit and then we will make an official FG
[00:24] <UndiFineD> duanedesign: I have a broad interest, so I try know a bit of all
[00:25] <hakimsheriff2> Good idea
[00:25] <duanedesign> i think charlie-tca is also very interested in accessebility
[00:25] <jledbetter> duanedesign, How to get more mentors? Ask? Maybe training too?
[00:25] <seidos> i dabbled in accessibility
[00:25] <seidos> i couldn't get orca working
[00:25] <seidos> not sure what other tools are out there
[00:26] <duanedesign> jledbetter: i thought maybe some loose knit ggroups that help each other accomplish the requirements for membership in the team of interest
[00:26] <hajour> i am mentor accessibility duanedesign
[00:26] <phillw> duanedesign: but it is a bit difficult, as we do teaching web pages, have devs working on projects etc. They just do not know where to 'slot in'
[00:26] <UndiFineD> seidos: you can ask that in #ubuntu-accessibility
[00:26] <jledbetter> duanedesign, I can definitely see that being helpful with dev. It's a huge realm.
[00:27] <collinp> phillw: Accessibility would fit in under the dev FG.
[00:27] <duanedesign> PabloRubianes: hello
[00:27] <PabloRubianes> yes
[00:27] <collinp> Until it gets to a critical mass where it can form it's own FG.
[00:27] <duanedesign> PabloRubianes: sorry i was tryiing to respond to your PM :P
[00:27] <UndiFineD> collinp: what is considered critical mass ?
[00:27] <collinp> Enough to sustain it.
[00:27] <collinp> Probably 10+ members.
[00:28] <duanedesign> yes we have had a problem in the past of jumping the gun on FG
[00:28] <phillw> collinp: speechcontrol itself is well past that :)
[00:28] <UndiFineD> collinp: I think we reached that already
[00:28] <duanedesign> where we have focus groups that sound ggreat, we form them and they never quite sustain themselves
[00:28] <phillw> as we are under the access group, you'd be suprised :)
[00:28] <hakimsheriff2> I am using a text to speech right now
[00:29] <duanedesign> UndiFineD: thats great. we can work on that this month and put it on the agenda for next meeting
[00:29] <collinp> phillw: Consider the fact that the Dev and Wiki FGs are the only ones that have 5+ members in their IRC channels.
[00:29] <jledbetter> Accessibility helps everyone so it's good that it's a very popular group
[00:29] <MrChrisDruif> Great hakimsheriff2 :)
[00:29] <collinp> Right now, at least.
[00:29] <hajour> we have 40 members on speechcontrol team and we are attached on the accessibility program collinp
[00:29] <phillw> duanedesign: I know that fully well, but with people like hajour and pen, along with alan bell - that FG would be self sustainable.
[00:30] <collinp> Speaking of the Dev FG, at the end of the meeting duanedesign, could I make an impromptu announcement?
[00:30] <duanedesign> collinp: absolutely
[00:30] <UndiFineD> new members interested in accessibility are requested to join #ubuntu-accessibility
[00:31] <seidos> UndiFineD: already joined
[00:31] <phillw> they are also required to sign the CoC
[00:31] <duanedesign> ok so we need more mentors, so lets encourage each other and do what we can there
[00:32] <jledbetter> Sounds good
[00:32] <UndiFineD> well, I think I might be ready for a new padawan soon
[00:32] <seidos> duanedesign: i can go where i'm wanted.  people don't like hanging out in an empty and/or quiet channel
[00:32] <duanedesign> :)
[00:32] <phillw> duanedesign: I have a new lubuntueer, he's a dev person. I may be able to get him on board.
[00:32] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD flies through his padawan's :P
[00:33] <duanedesign> ok whho has mentee here?
[00:33] <duanedesign> who wants to give an update
[00:33] <MrChrisDruif> duanedesign: Hmm?
[00:33] <phillw> duanedesign: I have 4!
[00:33] <hajour> well there are all working on the accessibility programs seidos  because i have many in the speechcontrol team
[00:33] <UndiFineD> I have MrChrisDruif , who needs testamonials
[00:33]  * seidos flies through his master
[00:33] <seidos> d'oh
[00:34]  * seidos puts on the rock of shame and the rock of triumph
[00:34] <collinp> phillw: Wow.
[00:34] <collinp> That's quite a bit.
[00:34] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[00:34] <duanedesign> MrChrisDruif: at each meeting we like to give updates on how our mentees are doing. Mentors/Masters share the success, or disappearances of their mentees
[00:34] <duanedesign> ill go first
[00:34] <phillw> UndiFineD: MrChrisDruif is a wonderful padawan, it is joy and delight to chat to him. He has learned so much.
[00:34] <duanedesign> Daniel** has been doing well. He has been putting in the time showing up in the channel
[00:35] <duanedesign> he also is working with phillw
[00:35] <duanedesign> next
[00:35] <hajour> i think MrChrisDruif  also would be a good master
[00:35] <duanedesign> dont be shy, someone tell us how your mentee is doing...
[00:36] <jledbetter> What about mentee saying how she/he is doing if master isn't present?
[00:36] <duanedesign> that would be awesome
[00:36] <phillw> I know that two of mine have had 'issues', but they have assured me that they will not let the project that they have been assigned to down.
[00:37] <duanedesign> phillw: i think as long as they let you know what is going on
[00:37] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif has been my padawan for a small month, he has been around much longer than that, he is my first, but I think he is ready for his testamonials, he made great progress and is involved in the development with many common teams
[00:38] <phillw> UndiFineD: If it were a vote, he'd get a +1 from me without hesitation.
[00:38] <seidos> do you cover positive and negative aspects of mentees or padwans?
[00:38] <duanedesign> yes MrChrisDruif i see alot in the channel which is good :)
[00:38] <MrChrisDruif> duanedesign: phillw is omnipresent (or has his ways of getting the news O:-))
[00:38] <duanedesign> seidos: mostly positives and missing in actions
[00:39] <seidos> RIP MIA :(
[00:39] <UndiFineD> seidos: we tend to emphasize the positive, negative aspects can be dealt with in private hmm :)
[00:39] <collinp> Look who strolls in.
[00:39] <hajour> duanedesign, cprofitt is not here but i have JackyAlcine in my team many hours and i see him also often in ubuntu beginners team and in ubuntu-beginners helping
[00:39] <duanedesign> that way if someone is missing someone else has the opportunity to say oh [s]he is...
[00:39] <seidos> UndiFineD: always?  like festering wounds?
[00:39] <duanedesign> yes
[00:39] <duanedesign> i mean yes to hajour :)
[00:40] <seidos> i inferred \o/
[00:40] <seidos> is inference the same as assumption?  hmmm
[00:40] <collinp> Inference is guessing something missing based on what is given.
[00:40] <collinp> Assumption is guessing based on past experience.
[00:41] <jledbetter> haha
[00:41] <UndiFineD> I think JackyAlcine is ready
[00:41] <duanedesign> ok great
[00:41] <seidos> past experience isn't given?  hmmmm
[00:41] <phillw> hajour: I think JackyAlcine would make an excellent mentor, he has the patience to help and the thirst to learn.
[00:41] <hajour> collinp,  a little could you be a little more clear?
[00:41] <hajour> yes agree phillw
[00:42] <duanedesign> [ACTION] work on accessebility fg
[00:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  work on accessebility fg
[00:42] <MrChrisDruif> Does JackyAlcine have the time? He's always busy with SpeechControl :)
[00:42] <collinp> Er. google.com -> define:inference and define:assumption
[00:42] <seidos> collinp: i don't disagree with the definitions
[00:42] <seidos> thanks :)
[00:42] <charlie-tca> i can infer from what he implied
[00:42] <jledbetter> But anyway...
[00:42] <hajour> MrChrisDruif,  a mentee can work with the project fromm his her mentor
[00:42] <duanedesign> i think that is hajour and UndiFineD. The accessebility fg
[00:42] <collinp> charlie-tca: Oh my god.
[00:43] <charlie-tca> lol
[00:43] <charlie-tca> but assume is never good
[00:43] <seidos> charlie-tca: you can, but should you ;)
[00:43] <jledbetter> Back to agenda, please :)
[00:43] <collinp> ^ good idea.
[00:43] <phillw> there are enough people on accessibilty channels to support a FG - Some quite astounding people in fact
[00:44] <duanedesign> oh and charlie-tca and hggdh have been doing a great job of being available to answer questions in our channel about bug triage
[00:44]  * hggdh hears self's name
[00:44] <duanedesign> please be aware they are there and they love to help :)
[00:44] <UndiFineD> yes, the user days was nice
[00:44] <phillw> duanedesign: and tenach has started the classroom sessions for coding web sites
[00:45] <UndiFineD> ? phillw did i miss it ?
[00:46] <phillw> UndiFineD: we have not done that one yet.... me and another are doing those sessions :D
[00:46] <duanedesign> me and cprofitt talked today about hggdh and charlie-tca becoming members of the BT. I probably dont have to tell you all they would be great members of the team
[00:46] <MrChrisDruif> I don't want to be a party pooper, but we've got about 15 mins left....
[00:47] <UndiFineD> duanedesign: totally agree-ing
[00:47] <duanedesign> and since the last thing we always cover is member votes let us vote on them being members :)
[00:47] <phillw> duanedesign: I do not know hggdh, but charlie-tca I would give a +1 to
[00:47] <collinp> There's not another meeting for a while, so we probably won't have any trouble if we go over the meeting time.
[00:47] <hajour> +1
[00:47] <hggdh> phillw: I am one of the admins for bug-control and bugsquad
[00:48] <PabloRubianes> duanedesign, good lets vote then
[00:48] <duanedesign> [VOTE] hggdh for member
[00:48] <MootBot> Please vote on:  hggdh for member.
[00:48] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:48] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:48] <duanedesign> +1
[00:48] <collinp> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:48] <phillw> hggdh: you have just gained a +1 from me, bug hunting is a neverending task
[00:48] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:48] <hajour> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:48] <phillw> +1
[00:48] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:49] <PabloRubianes> +1
[00:49] <MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:49] <duanedesign> any other members present to vote
[00:49] <collinp> Well, that was simple.
[00:49] <duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
[00:49] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[00:49] <duanedesign> yaa
[00:49] <hggdh> :-)
[00:49] <hggdh> thank you folks
[00:49] <jledbetter> +1 (I was reading sorry)
[00:49] <jledbetter> Grats!
[00:49] <duanedesign> welcome hggdh
[00:49] <collinp> hggdh: I think you mentioning "admin for bug-control and bugsquad" did the trick :P
[00:49] <PabloRubianes> congrats hggdh
[00:49] <charlie-tca> Congratulations, hggdh
[00:49] <hggdh> heh
[00:49] <MrChrisDruif> Congratz hggdh :)
[00:49] <duanedesign> ok now mr charlie
[00:49] <hajour> congrats hggdh and charlie-tca
[00:50] <charlie-tca> I am just an underling compared to hggdh
[00:50] <paultag> +1, late
[00:50] <duanedesign> I met charlie at UDS and I see him all over the community. He would be a great +! iin my book
[00:50] <paultag> love you guys, keep on keeping on
[00:50] <hggdh> charlie-tca: not at all
[00:50] <MrChrisDruif> hajour: I think we need to vote about it (but will prolly pass)
[00:50] <duanedesign> [VOTE] charlie-tca for member
[00:50] <MootBot> Please vote on:  charlie-tca for member.
[00:50] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:50] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:50] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:50] <duanedesign> +1
[00:50] <hajour> +1
[00:50] <jledbetter> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from jledbetter. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:50] <collinp> 0
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:50] <paultag> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:50] <collinp> er
[00:50] <collinp> +0
[00:50] <MootBot> Abstention received from collinp. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:50] <phillw> +1
[00:50] <PabloRubianes> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:50] <duanedesign> ok... anymore
[00:51] <hggdh> Can I vote?
[00:51] <pedro3005> seidos
[00:51] <duanedesign> ya
[00:51] <paultag> hggdh: I think so, you're a member now :)
[00:51] <duanedesign> :)
[00:51] <hggdh> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from hggdh. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:51] <MrChrisDruif> hggdh: Your a member ;)
[00:51] <duanedesign> he catches on quick
[00:51] <paultag> duanedesign: inorite?
[00:51] <duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
[00:51] <MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 8
[00:51] <duanedesign> woo hoo
[00:51] <hggdh> charlie-tca is worth it ;-)
[00:51] <MrChrisDruif> Congratz charlie-tca :)
[00:51] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[00:51] <jledbetter> Congratulions charlie-tca :)
[00:51] <paultag> charlie-tca: 'grats
[00:52] <duanedesign> collinp: did yiu want to say something?
[00:52] <hggdh> yeee, I am not the newest member anymore
[00:52] <PabloRubianes> charlie-tca, congrats!!!
[00:52] <jledbetter> s/Congratulions/Congratulations/
[00:52] <duanedesign> charlie-tca: welcome
[00:52] <collinp> Oh, yes.
[00:52] <phillw> charlie-tca: and hggdh welcome to UBT.
[00:52] <UndiFineD> duanedesign:could we vote on JackyAlcine and / or MrChrisDruif ?
[00:52] <pedro3005> and seidos !
[00:52] <collinp> We need more members for the Dev FG. I was staving off due to the team structure changes, but I think this would be the best time to announce that, since most of the team is here.
[00:52] <MrChrisDruif> =-O
[00:52] <hajour> duanedesign,  can JackyAlcine  be next time on the list for to become ubt member ?
[00:52] <duanedesign> heh, seidos is like mohi
[00:52] <collinp> The current member list for the Dev FG, I can count on two hands.
[00:52] <duanedesign> you mean he is not a member yet!
[00:52] <collinp> The active members I could count on one hand.
[00:53] <pedro3005> duanedesign, he's been my padawan for about a year
[00:53] <duanedesign> collinp: you are rifght
[00:53] <collinp> If you're interested in joining.. well, let me get the wiki page.
[00:53] <pedro3005> i can't stand that guy anymore! make him a member already
[00:53] <MrChrisDruif> pedro3005: A year?
[00:53] <pedro3005> :P just kidding
[00:53] <pedro3005> he's cool
[00:53] <jledbetter> collinp, Aren't we a member if we're on launchpad?
[00:53] <collinp> jledbetter: You're a member if you're in the Launchpad team, yes.
[00:53] <duanedesign> i know there is a lot of interest in the Dev FG...
[00:53] <pedro3005> MrChrisDruif, he became my padawan less than a week after I became a member myself
[00:53] <collinp> But first, there's a process.
[00:54] <jledbetter> Woots
[00:54] <MrChrisDruif> pedro3005: Same with UndiFineD and me :)
[00:54] <collinp> If you want it simply put, it's me checking that you have the credentials enough to be a productive member of the team (not very much) and helping you if you don't.
[00:54] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe two weeks...didn't count O:-)
[00:54] <collinp> So apply to the Launchpad group and I'll get to you on IRC to ensure that you have the credentials for the team.
[00:55] <duanedesign> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development
[00:55] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development
[00:55] <jledbetter> That's a nice idea to help folks get there, collinp
[00:55] <duanedesign> dev FG is aweosme.
[00:55] <pedro3005> so, let's please consider. the poor guy will go on an existential crisis
[00:55] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: this is a marathon, not a sprint. take your time and get to know other members :)
[00:55] <duanedesign> ok seidos
[00:55] <collinp> Rage. I can't find the wiki page.
[00:55] <seidos> pedro3005: couldn't you just make a program to automagically confirm members?
[00:56] <collinp> So I'll just have to list them out manually.
[00:56] <jledbetter> collinp, Is it the one duanedesign linked?
[00:56]  * seidos laments and gnashes his teeth
[00:56] <MrChrisDruif> phillw: I didn't mention being voted upon O:-)
[00:56] <collinp> jledbetter: That's the team's Wiki page, but not the one I'm looking for.
[00:56] <jledbetter> Ah ok
[00:56] <pedro3005> seidos, but, democracy!
[00:56] <duanedesign> we will do MrChrisDruif  and JackyAlcine next meeting so if you have not met them yet take a minute to say hi
[00:56] <collinp> Ok. Knowing or be learning a programming language is the biggest one.
[00:56] <seidos> pedro3005: have everyone vote on your program ;)
[00:56] <jledbetter> Even Java? ;)
[00:56] <MrChrisDruif> Hai :D
[00:56] <collinp> Any programming language will do.
[00:56] <collinp> jledbetter: Yes, even java.
[00:57] <jledbetter> haha :D
[00:57] <pedro3005> seidos, that program exists, it's called MootBot
[00:57] <collinp> (sadly) but uh
[00:57] <collinp> No, I'm kidding.
[00:57] <pedro3005> yeah
[00:57] <pedro3005> we don't take java programmers
[00:57] <jledbetter> :'(
[00:57] <UndiFineD> alright duanedesign
[00:57] <duanedesign> ok
[00:57]  * jledbetter takes her blocks and goes home
[00:57] <seidos> i wish i knew java, heh
[00:57] <collinp> Knowing your way around bug trackers and release systems is preferred.
[00:57] <collinp> That's about all that I can think of.
[00:57] <pedro3005> jledbetter, it's okay. you can still repent your sins. haskell will show you the way to salvation
[00:58] <jledbetter> haha Haskell? hahahahaha
[00:58] <jledbetter> Yeah bug tracker, versioning (bzr/git), yep yep
[00:58]  * pedro3005 grumbles
[00:59] <pedro3005> enough dev chat?
[00:59] <duanedesign> :)
[00:59] <collinp> Typical knowledge of development tools is preferred.
[00:59] <collinp> Now I'm done.
[00:59] <jledbetter> Never! But ok.
[00:59] <pedro3005> we can diverge to -dev if necessary
[00:59] <duanedesign> anything else?
[00:59] <pedro3005> uhm... the voting...
[00:59] <duanedesign> Are we going to make seidos wait one more month
[00:59] <duanedesign> :)
[00:59] <seidos> where is confirmation recorded?
[01:00] <seidos> a wiki?
[01:00] <hakimsheriff> AM I allowed to vote?
[01:00] <seidos> i could just go and update it...
[01:00] <collinp> seidos: Hm?
[01:00] <hakimsheriff> I am not a full memebr yet
[01:00] <duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/seidos
[01:00] <seidos> hakimsheriff: why not?
[01:00] <UndiFineD> hakimsheriff: nope
[01:00] <MrChrisDruif> Well, then you've got the same luck as me :D
[01:00] <MrChrisDruif> hakimsheriff ^
[01:01] <hakimsheriff> Mohi says soon
[01:01] <MrChrisDruif> You have the pleasure to see the rest of the members make their votes :P
[01:01] <hakimsheriff> Maybe next meeting
[01:01] <duanedesign> [VOTE] seidos for member
[01:01] <MootBot> Please vote on:  seidos for member.
[01:01] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[01:01] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[01:01] <seidos> i'll just add myself as a mentor on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[01:01] <duanedesign> +!
[01:01]  * seidos puts on the stone of triumph
[01:01] <duanedesign> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[01:01] <collinp> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from collinp. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[01:01] <pedro3005> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from pedro3005. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[01:01] <UndiFineD> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[01:01] <phillw> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[01:01]  * pedro3005 pokes paultag to vote
[01:01] <duanedesign> seidos: going once
[01:01] <duanedesign> twice
[01:01] <duanedesign> three times
[01:01] <seidos> +1
[01:01] <MootBot> +1 received from seidos. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[01:02] <duanedesign> sold
[01:02] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[01:02] <seidos> seis
[01:02] <duanedesign> [ENDVOTE]
[01:02] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[01:02] <duanedesign> yaa
[01:02] <pedro3005> I feel like a ton has been lifted from my shoulder!
[01:02]  * pedro3005 laughs
[01:02] <MrChrisDruif> seidos: Voting on yourself ;)
[01:02] <jledbetter> lol
[01:02] <seidos> MrChrisDruif: i wanted to exercise my democratic rights
[01:02] <duanedesign> lets put the other two on the agenda for the next meeting?
[01:03] <seidos> thanks your honors
[01:03]  * seidos gives everyone a pen
[01:03] <hajour> o i missed the vote +1 from me for seidos
[01:03] <duanedesign> also if anyone wants to help with the post meeting tasks
[01:03] <duanedesign> please come to -team
[01:03] <paultag> Oh crud
[01:03] <paultag> +1
[01:03] <paultag> duh, of course
[01:03] <phillw> duanedesign: I'd back Jacky 100%, the work he is doing on speechcontrol is wonderful.
[01:03] <pedro3005> seidos, you're a cool kid now
[01:03] <paultag> seidos: +1 for sure
[01:04] <hajour> me to duanedesign
[01:04] <duanedesign> Keep BeginnersTeam/TeamReports updated.
[01:04] <duanedesign> Update Next meeting time on the wiki
[01:04] <duanedesign> Send meeting minutes to ubuntu-beginners mailing list\
[01:04] <seidos> paultag: snarky comment
[01:04] <paultag> seidos: clever retort
[01:04] <duanedesign> thank you everyone
[01:04] <seidos> the polls have closed!
[01:04]  * seidos cries
[01:04] <duanedesign> grreat meeting!
[01:04] <duanedesign> haha grrreat
[01:04] <pedro3005> we laughed, we cried
[01:04] <jledbetter>  \o/
[01:04] <duanedesign> i am tony the tiger
[01:04] <seidos> paultag: if anyone asks, it was 7 votes to 0
[01:04] <duanedesign> #endmeeting
[01:04] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:04.
[01:04] <pedro3005> but time is fleeting
[01:04] <jledbetter> for reals
[01:04] <hakimsheriff> Bye all
[01:04] <UndiFineD> thanks everyone
[01:05] <pedro3005> and for complex numbers too
[01:05]  * jledbetter slips back to -team
[01:05] <seidos> i am zach the zebra
[01:05] <duanedesign> congrats to the new members
[01:05] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, congratz seidos :)
[01:05] <UndiFineD> yep congrats hggdh , charlie-tca and seidos
[01:05] <seidos> thanks MrChrisDruif
[01:05] <hajour> i have a question .we need stil 4 python and 4 C++ programmers we try to get open mary in natty
[01:05] <hggdh> UndiFineD: thank you
[01:06] <hajour> i talk further in #ubuntu-beginners-team
[01:06] <maco> hey beginners team people
[01:07] <maco> whats with the C++ class that your wiki page says happens at 15:00 on saturdays and didnt?
[01:08] <UndiFineD> dont know maco
[01:08] <hajour> collinp,  do you now it ? what maco ask
[01:08] <collinp> No idea.
[01:09] <pedro3005> we should probably take that off the wiki
[01:09] <pedro3005> maco, DiegoTc was going to teach it, showed up once and never again. at least that's what I saw
[01:09] <hajour> collinp,  i am become a mentor but seams me better to begin with 1 mentee
[01:10] <maco> i see
[01:11] <maco> people were in -classroom early saturday asking what timezone the 15:00 meant and so ...cue utc explanation.... and then i scrolled back and saw it didnt happen and then wondered if the wiki was just for a specific week or what
[01:12] <seidos> date -R
[01:12] <seidos> great command
[16:00] <cjwatson> hi foundations folks
[16:00] <ev> hiya
[16:01] <barry> hi
[16:01] <robbiew> o/
[16:01] <cjwatson> Robbie has a conflict, so asked me to chair
[16:04] <cjwatson> (sorry, mumble discussion :-) )
[16:04] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
[16:05]  * cjwatson looks round
[16:05] <cjwatson> james_w:
[16:05] <cjwatson> oops!
[16:05] <cjwatson> ok, backwards order in the directory :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> jhunt: how's the week been?
[16:05] <james_w> hi!
[16:05] <jhunt> Out Friday+Monday. Submitted byobu merge proposal for my UTF-8
[16:05] <jhunt> notification utilities and kirkland has now accepted these. Blog post to
[16:05] <jhunt> follow with some screenshots when I get a chance. Played a bit with my
[16:05] <jhunt> interactive boot idea for Upstart (looking vaguely promising at this
[16:05] <jhunt> point :) Documented my thoughts on how we could enhance the testing for
[16:05] <jhunt> Upstart.  Most of the time spent working on unit + functional tests for
[16:06] <jhunt> Upstart visualisation (requiring unit test framework changes and lots of
[16:06] <jhunt> macros to make the test code understandable! :-) Have documented tests
[16:06] <jhunt> and am currently working through coding. Have now arranged weekly call
[16:06] <jhunt> with Keybuk. Today, more Upstart tests and started to review patches for
[16:06] <jhunt> lp:#643289.
[16:06] <jhunt> EOT
[16:06] <james_w> I'm afraid to say I haven't contributed much to foundations this week ;-)
[16:06] <cjwatson> james_w: yep, sorry ;-)
[16:07] <barry> james_w: please make sure you do better next week :)
[16:07] <cjwatson> jhunt: cool.  good news on the branch maintenance front by the looks of things too
[16:08] <jhunt> indeed - I forgot to bring that up earlier!
[16:08] <mvo> barry: just fyi, I run the python-all auto-upgrade test currently (but its a bit on the slow side, my hdd could be faster it seems)
[16:09] <barry> mvo: thanks
[16:10] <cjwatson> psurbhi1: how about you?  (Sorry I haven't got anywhere with your mdadm fixes branch - I asked mvo this afternoon if he could have a look at it)
[16:10] <psurbhi1> cjwatson, np
[16:10] <psurbhi1> * worked on nfs-util bug 709392 on thursday, friday and a little bit of today (out of curiosity)
[16:10] <psurbhi1> * worked on getting mountall in initramfs - printing and debugging - no major success yet.
[16:10] <psurbhi1> (done)
[16:10] <mvo> psurbhi1: I'm happy to have a look, haven't manged before the meeting unfortunately
[16:11] <psurbhi1> mvo, np at all.. the merges are for lucid and maverick
[16:12] <cjwatson> psurbhi1: thanks, give me a shout if you need another set of eyeballs on mountall
[16:12] <cjwatson> mvo: ?
[16:13] <mvo> apt: upload backport for apt-ftparchive --arch for soyuz, branch merges, debugging, work on lp:~mvo/apt/dpointer;
[16:13] <mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: add simulate profile, cleanup exception, improve overview html;
[16:13] <mvo> Btfs natty test install; Gdebi: fix gio branch; Jockey: fix pkgfile parser bug lp:~mvo/jockey/fix-multiple-modules-in-packages-file;
[16:13] <mvo> software-center: work with didrocks on onecnf, add tests for the netstatus branch, review/merges branches; Soyuz: test support-timeframe-fix with bigjools; Unattended-upgrades: bug triage, add much improved matching; update-manager: improve details display, upload new version with poprted modalises code; Xserver-xorg-video-intel: backport fix for xserver-xorg-video-intel #707236
[16:13] <psurbhi1> cjwatson, ok, thanks!
[16:15] <cjwatson> mvo: have you done a btrfs test install since yesterday, or was this the previous one?
[16:15] <cjwatson> I think it should actually work now
[16:16] <psurbhi1> mvo, cjwatson, is the btrfs test install working?
[16:16] <mvo> cjwatson: that was the previous one - cool, I will do one today then
[16:16] <cjwatson> psurbhi1: it ran into some grub breakage (actually fairly small but rather fatal) - I fixed that
[16:16] <psurbhi1> cjwatson, ok, thanks!
[16:16] <mvo> \o/
[16:16] <psurbhi1> :)
[16:16]  * mvo runs rsync
[16:17] <cjwatson> the installer side was fine except that the subvolumes needed to be made world-readable
[16:17] <cjwatson> but I think today's daily build should be all working, assuming it built
[16:17] <psurbhi1> ok, i will have a look at it too
[16:18] <cjwatson> doko is on holiday
[16:18] <cjwatson> ev: ?
[16:18] <ev> Digging at the X handover in oem-config some more with advice from Scott on the correct approach, usb-creator KVM option, console-setup and xkb-data fixes, timezone widget discussions with GNOME, some bug gardening
[16:18] <ev> (done)
[16:19] <cjwatson> oh, is GNOME interested?
[16:19] <ev> indeed, it's largely going upstream
[16:19]  * ev digs up the blog post
[16:20] <cjwatson> that's very cool
[16:20] <mvo> nice
[16:20] <ev> http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel
[16:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2010/07/16/date-and-time-settings/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/?h=wip/datetime-panel
[16:21] <mvo> hm, are there missing credits in this post ?
[16:23]  * cjwatson moves on
[16:23] <cjwatson> my week (short, I was on holiday on Monday): GRUB btrfs installation fixes (#712029); OpenSSH/hardy fix for IPv6-only hosts (#713002); packaged OpenSSH 5.8p1; porting work; obscure octave3.2 failure on lucid and maverick (#546671); misc grub-install
[16:23] <cjwatson> er bugs
[16:24] <ev> mvo: credited in the source code header, which is all I care about really.
[16:24] <mvo> fair enough
[16:24] <cdbs> is this the foundation team meeting?
[16:24] <cjwatson> cdbs: yes
[16:24] <cjwatson> barry: ?
[16:25] <barry> bug 686257 (python-keyring); bug 702375 (launchpadlib); bug 712136 (pymca); bug 697792 (fuse); bug 664276 (python-numpy); python-libavg review; platform futures meeting; python27 transition analysis/work; udd docs merge into ubuntu dev guide; still need to work out the whole numpy-matplotlib-wxgtk2.8 dependency tangle; done.
[16:27] <cjwatson> ok, thanks all, I am a slow lightning-guider today
[16:27] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Alpha-3 bugs
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha-3 bugs
[16:27] <cjwatson> our beloved release manager is concerned about bug levels :-)
[16:28] <cjwatson> I'd like to ask that everyone make a habit of regularly looking at these two URLs and seeing what you can prune out of them
[16:28] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda#Foundations
[16:29] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33573
[16:30] <cjwatson> perhaps we could take a quick run through critical/high in the latter now
[16:30] <cjwatson> bug 693671 - anyone have a Windows system and fancy attacking this?
[16:30] <cjwatson> bug 605042 - looks like ours, but blocked on kernel team
[16:31] <cjwatson> bug 634664
[16:31] <barry> cjwatson: i have w7 in a vm so i can at least take a look
[16:31] <cjwatson> bug 683260 - this was one of the top ISO testing bugs last time round
[16:31] <cjwatson> barry: great, let me know if you need orientation in the baroqueness of wubi
[16:31] <barry> cjwatson: will do :)
[16:31] <cjwatson> leaving out gcc bugs since doko isn't here
[16:32] <cjwatson> bug 705917
[16:32] <ev> equally available for wubi assistance
[16:32] <cjwatson> bug 712662
[16:32] <barry> ev: ack
[16:33] <cjwatson> (actually, that last is assigned to doko already)
[16:33] <ev> I'll dig at bug 683260
[16:33] <mvo> looks like 671016 is in progress, but we need to find the right words, I will see how I can improve it
[16:34] <cjwatson> I'm guessing 705917 is my fault, I'll take a look at that
[16:35] <ev> oh thanks.  I started to pick at that a bit, but got caught up in the xkb-data/console-setup stuff, so ultimately didn't get far
[16:36] <cjwatson> ah, didn't know you were on it.  yeah, it's very easy to end up yak-shaving with that stuff
[16:36] <cjwatson> ok, that's enough bugs to be getting on with, I think, but it will definitely help if as many people as possible stay on top of those lists
[16:36] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB / Good news
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB / Good news
[16:36] <cjwatson> Debian released, in case anyone's been living under a rock ;-)
[16:37] <ev> I'm all booked for pycon
[16:37]  * barry has to do the same
[16:38] <barry> fwiw, python 3.2 final is getting another rc, so final release pushed back a week
[16:41] <cjwatson> ok, all done by the looks of things :0
[16:41] <cjwatson> :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> thanks all
[16:41] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[16:41] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:41.
[16:41] <barry> thanks cjwatson
[16:41] <psurbhi1> cjwatson, thanks
[16:42] <mvo> thanks!
[16:43] <ev> thanks
[16:44] <jhunt> thx!
[18:58] <highvoltage> Howdy!
[18:58] <highvoltage> Anyone around for the Edubuntu meeting?
[18:58] <doctormo> I'm here
[18:58] <mgariepy> i am here too
[18:58] <alkisg_web> Hi all
[18:58] <hajour> you are beginning now ?
[18:59] <highvoltage> yep
[18:59]  * stgraber waves and go away for another meeting
[18:59] <hajour> i wanted only to say i am busy to get a school in netherland use edubuntu
[18:59] <highvoltage> I'll just quickly spew some updates before we talk to doctormo, he's willing to create a wallpaper for us
[19:00] <hajour> primary school
[19:00] <highvoltage> hajour: cool, I know of one school (or I think organisation) called Het Hooghuis which also does in the netherlands
[19:01] <highvoltage> Last week we release alpha 2, it was kind of nasty because of the amd64 webkit bug, but other than that it went quite well
[19:01] <hajour> i have some questions still about it where can i go for to get answers about it
[19:01] <highvoltage> and we're mostly on track so far
[19:01] <highvoltage> Some of the alpha 2 todo items were pushed out to alpha 3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:01] <hajour> yes i know its a other province city there is oss
[19:01] <highvoltage> hajour: #edubuntu
[19:02] <hajour> thank you very much highvoltage
[19:02] <highvoltage> hajour: or otherwise any of the methods on http://edubuntu.org/community :)
[19:02] <highvoltage> (although except for the mailing lists it's usually the same few people active)
[19:02] <hajour> thank you sorry for the disturb
[19:02] <highvoltage> no you're welcome!
[19:03] <hajour> :)
[19:03] <highvoltage> we also have our first edubuntu-specific security vulnerability, I can't discuss the details yet publically because the fix is currently being prepared for the archives
[19:04] <highvoltage> I'll send more details about that to the edubuntu-devel list within the next 12-48 hours. we might get quite a lot of questions about that so we should be ready
[19:05] <highvoltage> over the last weekend I saw this card on doctormo's blog: http://edubuntu.org/communitydoctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3
[19:05] <highvoltage> oops, http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3
[19:06] <highvoltage> I like the style and doctormo indicated that he's willing to put some effort into a wallpaper for us if we can commit to it
[19:06] <highvoltage> basically he doesn't want to put a lot of time into it if it's going to be wasted, which is understandable
[19:07] <highvoltage> we currently have the artwork team creating some wallpapers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[19:07] <highvoltage> current submissions on http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-6/
[19:08] <highvoltage> I'm not sure what you guys think, but personally it sounds like a good idea to go with doctormo if he can commit to see it through
[19:08] <doctormo> highvoltage: I'm trying to upload an updated version for you.
[19:08]  * highvoltage wonders if mhall119 is around
[19:08]  * mhall119 is
[19:09] <highvoltage> mhall119: good, you usually have an opinion about this kind of thing :)
[19:09] <mhall119> I like doctormo's circuit image best
[19:09] <highvoltage> I liked that too
[19:10] <mhall119> the elephants image on flickr second best, but elephant != narwhal, and that might be confusing
[19:10] <mhall119> give that past animal wallpapers have matched the release mascot
[19:10] <doctormo> What I would like for you both to do mhall119 and highvoltage is put aside your asthetic and think about solid things you want and want to avoid.
[19:10] <doctormo> So, no clishays(sp)
[19:10] <highvoltage> clichés, yes
[19:10] <highvoltage> well, not the old boring ones at least
[19:11] <mhall119> I'd say no words (unless they're for asthetics not reading)
[19:11] <doctormo> The artwork team is coming to a consensus on the format of requests that edubuntu should be aware of
[19:11] <highvoltage> yeah we mentioned no text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0006_Edubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[19:11] <mhall119> not cartoonish either
[19:12] <doctormo> Competitions are no ok for artwork unless they are designed to foster a learning experience between artists.
[19:12] <doctormo> All artwork should probably be matched up with artists who your happy to work with and who you trust and who are willing to work with you.
[19:12] <mhall119> can we trust doctormo?
[19:12] <highvoltage> I like cartoonish, but that's just me, and also why we need larger input (because I love the cartoonish style of http://doctormo.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d38yry3)
[19:13] <highvoltage> mhall119: I have no idea
[19:13] <highvoltage> mhall119: he seems sincere :)
[19:13] <mhall119> that hat makes him look shifty
[19:13] <highvoltage> it does.
[19:13] <mhall119> I'm not even sure he's really a doctor
[19:13] <highvoltage> like doctor evil?
[19:13] <doctormo> I'm a witch doctor, next question! ;-)
[19:14] <highvoltage> I'm not sure how to approach this
[19:15]  * cody-somerville has always enjoyed the abstract realism type artwork Fedora uses for their wallpaper.
[19:15] <highvoltage> if we're going to make a wiki page and spam the list/identica/etc to comment on it we're going to end up with a page with lots of contradictions and something that's not clear enough for doctormo to work from
[19:15] <doctormo> highvoltage: Imagine you needed code contributions.
[19:15] <highvoltage> costales: *nod*
[19:15] <doctormo> Definition, concept and mood. That's all I need.
[19:15] <costales> hi highvoltage
[19:16] <highvoltage> doctormo: the difference with code and artwork is that code usually has few right ways of doing it. I think there are many ways to have nice wallpapers
[19:16] <doctormo> I can make several different non-complete works and you can pick between them and then I'll finish the one you want.
[19:16]  * highvoltage makes some notes about what doctormo needs
[19:17] <highvoltage> doctormo: that sounds great
[19:18] <highvoltage> doctormo: pretty much the biggest things I can think of is that our panels are very light in colour, so having a wallpaper that's not too light would be great (the low contrast is a problem with the current wallpaper)
[19:18] <doctormo> highvoltage: Also check the updated version: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Underwater-Stream-196560265
[19:19] <highvoltage> doctormo: other than ideally having no text, and avoiding the usual clichés that we've seen a million times, I don't think there's really any hard limits, I'd like to give you as much artistic license as possible
[19:19] <doctormo> Before the set of 5 concept works, I'll need those three things from you guys.
[19:20] <doctormo> As well as the rules. Which seem to consist of: no cartoons, no cliches, no text.
[19:20] <highvoltage> ok, we'll get those to you by friday. I'll spam the usual contact means and if people don't respons then they'll have to be happy with what I suggest to you :)
[19:21]  * doctormo thinks that if he really had free license, he'd make a 100% black wallpaper and you'd have to use it  ;-)
[19:22] <highvoltage> strictly speaking, that *would* fit the current criterea we gave you :)
[19:23] <highvoltage> doctormo: ok, so we'll get back to you on friday at with that information. either that or if people aren't happy with giving up on the artwork team I'll let you know
[19:23] <highvoltage> the artwork team's work is good and we'll include it on the disc, I'm just not fond of using it for a default
[19:24] <highvoltage> oh hi costales :)
[19:25] <doctormo> highvoltage: I am doing this as part of the artwork team
[19:25] <highvoltage> doctormo: ok, that's really good, do you talk to john baer at all?
[19:26] <doctormo> Consider the that there is a little bit of a fork, there is me, thorwil and the canonical people and then there is a seperate prong.
[19:26] <highvoltage> ok, that answers my question exactly
[19:27] <highvoltage> anything else for the edubuntu meeting?
[19:27] <doctormo> that consists of baer who believes in wikipedia style, mass competition style amateur art and the extensive use of flikr. Which can work...
[19:29] <highvoltage> yeah
[19:30] <highvoltage> well, I guess that's it for this meeting then, we can continue in #edubuntu then :)
[19:30] <highvoltage> *GONG*
[19:30] <doctormo> thanks highvoltage
[21:01] <poolie> hi
[21:01] <poolie> Ubuntu DistributedDevelopment meeting starting now; all welcome
[21:01] <poolie> #startmeeting
[21:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:01. The chair is poolie.
[21:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:01]  * slangasek waves
[21:02] <jelmer> me
[21:02] <jelmer> hi slangasek
[21:02] <poolie> [topic] attendees
[21:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  attendees
[21:02] <poolie> hi jelmer, slangasek
[21:02] <poolie> barry sent apologies
[21:02] <wendar> listening in
[21:03] <poolie> james_w, hi?
[21:03] <james_w> hi
[21:03] <james_w> sorry I'm late :-)
[21:03] <poolie> np :)
[21:03] <poolie> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110209#preview
[21:03] <jam> hi
[21:03] <poolie> [topic] action items
[21:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[21:04] <poolie> * poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
[21:04] <poolie> done!
[21:04] <jam> I do believe I saw that \o/
[21:04] <poolie> actually i sent it to canonical-tech
[21:04] <poolie> want to try it?
[21:04] <poolie> i got one response already, which is good
[21:04] <poolie> perhaps i should forward it to ubuntu-platform?
[21:04] <james_w> cool
[21:04] <jam> poolie: "want to try it"? try what?
[21:04] <james_w> I would
[21:04] <poolie> working on bzr :)
[21:04] <james_w> jam, try a rotation to the bzr team?
[21:04] <poolie> ok
[21:04] <jam> ah
[21:05] <jam> sure, I'll rotate to bzr for 6 months
[21:05] <poolie> i wonder if we can send a similar invitation to non-canonical-staff?
[21:05] <poolie> just as a thing they might be interested to work on
[21:05] <poolie> perhaps a post that gets to the planet is best
[21:05] <james_w> yeah, I think that would be best
[21:05] <poolie> [action] poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform
[21:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to forward to ubuntu-platform
[21:06] <poolie> [action] poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
[21:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
[21:06] <james_w> posting with things to do and ways to get started can help
[21:06] <poolie> right
[21:06] <poolie> * poolie to update hot bugs for next meeting
[21:06] <poolie> done
[21:06] <poolie> we're now using assignment to <https://bugs.launchpad.net/~canonical-bazaar/+assignedbugs> to track our short list
[21:06] <jam> poolie: is that just ~canonical-bazaar, or is there a different list of 'hot' bugs?
[21:07] <poolie> i think just that's enough
[21:07] <poolie> and that also shows up in https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
[21:07] <poolie> which i propose we use to review them in a bit
[21:07] <poolie> to review which particular bugs are listed, and whether anything else should be
[21:07] <poolie> any comments on this?
[21:08] <jelmer> poolie: So we use that to track our hot bugs list, then reassign to a specific person when we actually start hacking?
[21:08] <poolie> correct
[21:08] <poolie> the kanban shows bugs assigned to the team or its members
[21:09] <poolie> it would be nice to show this in lp itself too
[21:09] <poolie> (i wonder if there's a bug for that)
[21:09] <poolie> ok, moving on
[21:09] <james_w> poolie, is that assigned list *the* queue to work from?
[21:09] <poolie> yes, it is
[21:10] <james_w> ok
[21:10] <james_w> so we should prioritise and put the most important in that list, and drop things that aren't that important?
[21:10] <poolie> people can also take reactive/opportunistic/itch-scratching bugs of course, but they should be taking a lot of work from there
[21:10] <james_w> over time I mean
[21:10] <poolie> with the caveat that bugs they've specifically individually taken from that page won't show up
[21:10] <poolie> as i mentioned above
[21:10] <poolie> correct, we should
[21:10] <poolie> i hope during the bug review phase of this meeting we'll do some of that
[21:11] <james_w> ok
[21:11] <james_w> thanks
[21:11] <poolie> every fortnight
[21:11] <poolie> * poolie to file bug about MOTD information for out-of-date packages
[21:11] <poolie> done
[21:12] <poolie> but not assigned?
[21:12] <jelmer> there was also a very old bug by spiv, perhaps that should be marked as a dupe?
[21:12] <jelmer> bug 121201
[21:13] <poolie> it seems like we could use that to implement this
[21:14] <poolie> ok
[21:14] <poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187
[21:14] <poolie> and it actually is assigned
[21:14] <poolie> and barry filed it
[21:15] <jelmer> ah, ok
[21:16] <jam> poolie: next?
[21:16] <poolie> * jam to review spiv's branch for bug 603395
[21:16] <jam> I didn't get to it, but poolie did, so still done
[21:17] <poolie> i know spiv did some of them
[21:17] <poolie> but the bug's still open?
[21:17] <poolie> anyhow, spiv seems to be progressing on it
[21:17] <poolie> * barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit
[21:17] <poolie> i think he did
[21:17] <jam> poolie: the line-item was about the review, not closing the bug....
[21:18] <poolie> right, it doesn't require review now anyhow
[21:18] <poolie> spiv fixed a bunch of related bugs
[21:18] <poolie> * barry to file bug on debcommit/bzr commit
[21:18] <poolie> blah
[21:18] <poolie> * jam to follow up on pristine-tar stuff
[21:18] <jam> poolie: I know barry talked about debcommit, I didn't see a bug on it
[21:18] <jam> poolie: pristine-tar was updated, many packages fixed, a small handful still failing
[21:18] <jam> so done for that level
[21:19] <jam> it is no longer the #1 failure in the importer
[21:19] <poolie> anything more to do?
[21:19] <jam> poolie: we've done what that item was meant to be. I think investigating future failing imports is just regular stuff
[21:20] <poolie> ok
[21:20] <poolie> [topic] LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary
[21:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  LEP https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary
[21:20] <poolie> we have a lep proposing our major feature here
[21:20] <poolie> i have some questions from jml to fill it out a bit more
[21:20] <poolie> [action] poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
[21:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
[21:20] <poolie> [action] poolie to meet with allison re lep
[21:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to meet with allison re lep
[21:21] <poolie> [action] poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
[21:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
[21:21] <robbiew> huh?
[21:21] <poolie> we need to get it triaged for launchpad if we want a feature squad to work on it
[21:21] <poolie> :) hi
[21:21] <poolie> i have an action to show you https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary and see what you say :)
[21:21] <robbiew> ah..cool
[21:21] <robbiew> sorry to interrupt ;)
[21:22]  * robbiew goes back into his cave
[21:22] <poolie> np, consider yourself shown
[21:23] <poolie> can we set a time separately to look at it, or could you just mail me feedback?
[21:23] <poolie> ("i don't understand what you're talking about" is ok feedback if that's the case)
[21:24] <poolie> ok
[21:24] <poolie> [topic] Package importer progress
[21:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Package importer progress
[21:24] <poolie> the big thing here is that we went through the wheezy release, which caused a bunch of disruption
[21:24] <poolie> including bug 715000
[21:25] <poolie> the fix for which should be deployed today
[21:25] <poolie> i think after that we can restart the importer
[21:25] <poolie> in fact, probably we could restart it now, but it might give the importer indigestion
[21:25] <james_w> is that being rolled out to jubany as well?
[21:25] <poolie> the fixed bzr?
[21:26] <jam> james_w: aiui jubany doesn't care
[21:26] <jam> lp does
[21:26] <poolie> it probably should be, but i haven't specifically seen it fail there
[21:26] <jam> package_import.py doesn't trigger that code path that was having problems with double stacking
[21:26] <james_w> yeah, the fixed bzr
[21:26] <poolie> i think it only affects log on a doubly-stacked branch
[21:26] <james_w> ok, if you've verified then I'm happy
[21:26] <poolie> i think we should just wait for it to be in 2.3.1 or 2.4b1 and then roll that out
[21:27] <james_w> it /does/ do some interrogation of branches over hpss though
[21:27] <poolie> ok
[21:27] <jam> james_w: it affects rev_id => dotted_revno code, but I don't think you hit that in importing.
[21:27] <poolie> are we ok to just fix it if it fails?
[21:27] <james_w> see get_unimported_revisions or roundabout
[21:27] <james_w> if that's how you want to do it then I'm fine with that
[21:27] <jam> poolie: I agree, I think if we see package imports failing, it just becomes a high priority to roll out the code on jubany
[21:28] <poolie> i'll add a task
[21:28] <poolie> i think the wheezy addition has caused a bump in the number of failures
[21:28] <poolie> at any rate the graph has gone up
[21:28] <poolie> hopefully once this is all done it will be back down
[21:29] <poolie> i am pleased by the increasing amount of work on the importer
[21:29] <jam> poolie: is there another bug to restack deb branches to sid?
[21:29] <jam> which is also a workaround for this ug
[21:29] <jam> bug
[21:29] <jam> since you don't end up with double-stacking
[21:29] <poolie> also under that heading, i made a plan with charlies and mthaddon that we'll move it to pepo and (if possible) give up login access on the 1st of March
[21:29] <poolie> i think there is
[21:30] <slangasek> wrt the importer... where is that code published?  I don't see any links to the code from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
[21:30] <jam> slangasek: lp:udd
[21:30] <poolie> good question
[21:30] <slangasek> ah
[21:30] <slangasek> if this could be linked more prominently, perhaps it would help with getting extra-canonical folks involved
[21:30] <poolie> excellent point
[21:30] <poolie> i'll file abug
[21:30] <jam> slangasek: tbh, I doubt it, but I'm happy for it to be more prominently linked
[21:31] <slangasek> jam: maybe it is wishful thinking... there've been a few importer bugs that I would've been keen to at least look at, if I'd been able to find the code more readily :)
[21:31] <poolie> it's true
[21:31] <jam> most of the import code itself is in bzr-builddeb, but sure
[21:32] <poolie> we can say that too
[21:32] <poolie> bug 716123, marked easy
[21:32] <poolie> any other comments on the package importer?
[21:33] <jam> poolie: I'm poking around trying to get feedback for how people want imports to look, especially wrt quilt imports
[21:34] <poolie> true
[21:34] <poolie> thanks for doing that
[21:34] <poolie> it's looking like they really should be imported to looms
[21:34] <jelmer> yeah, I think quilt imports will be important
[21:34] <jam> yeah, but that still leaves us with "and what does that actually mean" :)
[21:34] <jam> also, that wouldn't strictly block a switchover
[21:34] <jam> so i'm not 100% sure what the importance is
[21:35] <jam> The discussion has been very useful for me to start understanding what is actually going on, though.
[21:35] <james_w> (http://paste.ubuntu.com/565180/ is what the importer does over hpss, so I think it should be fine)
[21:35] <jam> james_w: it isn't strictly an hpss thing, any double-stacked branch will fail during log, etc (even purely locally)
[21:35] <jelmer> jam: Yeah :)
[21:35] <poolie> shall we add an action for next time for you to summarize where we got to?
[21:36] <jam> poolie: sure
[21:36] <james_w> jam, right, but we talk over hpss to LP, which has some double stacked branches
[21:36] <jam> sounds like a good action item
[21:36] <poolie> [topic] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
[21:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
[21:36] <poolie> incidentally, i'm going to be on leave 2 weeks from today
[21:36] <poolie> just for a long weekend
[21:36] <james_w> everything else is done locally with no stacking, apart from fetch, which we know is fine
[21:36] <slangasek> s/topic/action/?
[21:36] <poolie> moving on
[21:37] <poolie> you're right
[21:37] <poolie> [action] jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
[21:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
[21:37] <poolie> [topic] hot bug review
[21:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  hot bug review
[21:37] <poolie> should that be 'revue'? :)
[21:37] <poolie> [url] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
[21:37] <poolie> that's a bit large to read the whole thing
[21:37] <slangasek> [link] https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
[21:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://devpad.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/bzr-kanban.html
[21:38] <poolie> but i think it may be a good way to track whether we're working on the right htings
[21:38] <james_w> poolie, I'll start referring to you all as the bzr troupe
[21:38] <poolie> so let's focus on things near the top (critical/high) and in the middle (in progress etc)
[21:38] <jam> poolie: when did we start getting big red ! ?
[21:39] <jam> and what does that actually mean?
[21:39] <poolie> today, apparently
[21:39] <poolie> jamu must have added it
[21:39] <poolie> "in review for more than 3 days"
[21:39] <jelmer> jam: it looks like the time the bug has been in progress
[21:39] <poolie> or in progress for more than 7 days
[21:39] <poolie> i kind of envy landscape if it's a big (!) for something to take more than 7 days
[21:39] <poolie> but perhaps we can get there too if we reduce our wip
[21:39] <slangasek> what's the process for moving from needs testing -> verified? I was all ready to jump on testing bug #706990, I see someone has already followed up to the bug to say it's fixed
[21:40] <poolie> slangasek, there's a key at the bottom
[21:40] <slangasek> aha
[21:40] <poolie> this has been good to work on with jkakar btw
[21:41] <poolie> bug 702024 should be good for making lp rollouts less disruptive
[21:41] <poolie> so, what should we do here?
[21:41] <poolie> are there particular bugs that ought to be on here but aren't?
[21:41] <poolie> should we go back to having the meeting review ~10 top bugs?
[21:42] <poolie> perhaps we should look at the critical bugs?
[21:42] <jam> slangasek: some projects (not bzr) use Fix Committed vs Fix Released, which changes only once there is a full release, not sure that you can release packages, but you could poke the upstreams
[21:42] <poolie> i think we have a few too many bugs altogether in-process at the moment
[21:42] <poolie> but i think if we pay attention it will go down
[21:43] <slangasek> jam: oh, well, I can at least set the tag on the bugs if things prove ok in my own testing :)
[21:43] <poolie> of the bugs mentioned in the previous meeting, all of them are assigned or done, except bug 499684 is assigned to barry
[21:44] <poolie> s//assigned to canonical-bazaar
[21:45] <poolie> ok, moving on
[21:45] <poolie> [topic] any other business?
[21:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other business?
[21:45] <jam> poolie: there is a ton of bugs in there on projects that aren't bzr, and thus don't conform to our bug triage standards
[21:45] <jam> I'm not sure how kanban should interpret that
[21:46] <slangasek> poolie: I can share some happy news if you like
[21:46] <jam> note that *everything* in Verified is assigned to jelmer
[21:47] <poolie> yes, i think he started doing things that way after i set this up
[21:47] <poolie> perhaps to see how it works
[21:47] <poolie> i think we can fudge it
[21:47] <poolie> slangasek, please do
[21:47] <slangasek> I wrote up https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr last week with some recipes for using UDD branches within Linaro, and am seeing some good uptake by the team
[21:47] <slangasek> the bad news is that I think I've found every single bug in bzr-git :-)
[21:47] <jelmer> yeah, I'd be happy to see Verified gone.. I was just seeing how things worked
[21:48] <slangasek> so there are now some official UDD branches in Launchpad with some very rich git history attached
[21:49] <poolie> slangasek, wow, that's great, thanks very much
[21:49] <poolie> let's make sure those bugs get escalated and addressed
[21:49] <poolie> jelmer, i wonder if it would be good for you to pair on fixing those bugs with say vila
[21:49] <poolie> to spread the love around
[21:49] <poolie> mm, i don't know -what- time zone you're in though :)
[21:49] <jelmer> poolie: the bzr-git bugs? I'd be happy to
[21:49] <poolie> maybe you overlap more with jam?
[21:50] <jam> poolie: in a month it will be the same :)
[21:50] <jelmer> slangasek: are these all related to pushing into git, or fetching as well?
[21:50] <slangasek> jelmer: fetching
[21:51] <slangasek> jelmer: 706990 is certainly one I ran into; I've also been dancing on the bleeding edge with qemu-linaro, which has submodule references upstream
[21:51] <poolie> slangasek, so if they're blocking your work on this, please make sure they're at least High
[21:51] <jelmer> slangasek: perhaps we should bump the importance of some bugs
[21:51] <poolie> and assigned to someone
[21:52] <poolie> (or if you can't actually triage/assign, just comment asking for it)
[21:52] <slangasek> nothing blocking currently as I've routed around the damage in the recipes - but I'm happy to highlight the bugs for your consideration
[21:52] <poolie> please do
[21:53] <poolie> that page is really nice
[21:53] <slangasek> who should I feed the list to? (I can't bump bug priorities myself)
[21:53] <poolie> you can mail it to ubuntu-distributed-devel or you can comment on the bugs
[21:53] <slangasek> ok
[21:53] <poolie> whichever is easier
[21:54] <poolie> you could forward a link to that page too
[21:54] <slangasek> will do
[21:54] <poolie> any other feedback from people who've used it?
[21:55] <poolie> [action] poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr
[21:55] <MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie forward/link to https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/ComponentReleasesWithBzr
[21:55] <slangasek> I asked John Rigby to file a bug on bzr-git for his experience of "bzr branch ran for a really long time and then crashed", dunno if he's gotten around to it yet :)
[21:56] <slangasek> otherwise the feedback has been positive
[21:56] <poolie> good
[21:56] <poolie> please do get people to file bugs, especially if they can get a traceback and/or -Dhpss trace
[21:56] <poolie> we don't fix them all right away but we are fixing a lot of them
[21:56] <slangasek> ack
[21:56] <poolie> ok, i think that's it
[21:57] <poolie> happy hacking, everyone
[21:57] <poolie> i'll be on leave from the 23rd and back on the 2nd
[21:57] <poolie> #ends
[21:57] <poolie> #endmeeting
[21:57] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:57.
[21:57] <slangasek> thanks, all :)
[22:00] <james_w> thanks