/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/09/#ubuntu-us-tn.txt

excid3|mbphey00:24
cyberangerhey00:26
cyberangerwhat's up excid3|mbp00:26
excid3|mbpnot a whole lot00:28
excid3|mbpyou?00:28
cyberangerenough00:29
cyberangernot too busy, not too bored00:29
wrsthey excid3|mbp, cyberanger00:46
excid3|mbpthats a good middleground00:47
cyberangerhey wrst00:50
cyberangerexcid3|mbp: when it holds00:50
cyberangerit is00:50
cyberangerhey techMiles03:04
techMileshey thar.03:07
techMileswassap?03:07
cyberangernot alot, doing some hacking03:08
cyberangeralot of code to rewrite03:08
techMilesyeah.03:08
techMilesam doing excel work, here.03:08
techMilesclass. but love excel. :D03:08
cyberangerouch03:08
cyberangeropenoffice calc isn't good enough?03:09
techMilesthe class requires excel03:09
techMilesand it does have a lot of functions that Ooo doesn't quite match yet03:09
cyberangerwell, I do remeber those days, in high school (didn't need any office course, assumed if you were IT, you knew it enough as is)03:10
cyberangerand they can be different, I still did the work in oo.o (trying to get the school to switch, did that work twice)03:11
linuxman410wrst u here03:54
linuxman410wrst u here03:58
wrstcyberanger: you are showing away have you changed clients?13:08
=== electricus_ is now known as electricus
vychunemorning14:45
Xpistosmorning all14:47
wrstmorning Xpistos, vychune14:48
vychunehow are yall14:48
wrstgood14:48
chibihogoshinotoday is manga day15:23
wrsthey chibihogoshino15:50
wrsti was at a sherwin williams paint store last night and they run linux15:50
vychunefor real?!?!?15:50
vychuneoh and lowe's run linux15:50
wrstyes they run suse enterprise linux15:51
wrstvychune: http://www.novell.com/news/press/2008/12/sherwin-williams-standardizes-its-retail-stores-on-suse-linux-enterprise-from-novell.html15:51
wrstlooked like the same desktop almost that lowes uses15:51
vychuneoh cool15:52
wrstyes that was very cool15:52
XpistosHey the guys at my network released a new podcast yesterday call The Memory Leak16:00
Xpistoshttp://thememoryleak.com16:00
wrstcool Xpistos, hello chibihogoshino16:26
Xpistoshey wrst16:26
vychunebrb16:32
netritiousmorning locotn16:41
wrstmorning netritious16:43
netritioushow's it going wrst?16:44
wrstpretty good turning into a nice humpday16:44
netritiousgood to hear wrst16:44
wrstyeah how are you doing netritious?16:45
netritiousoh stuck on a little problem with vncserver and gdm16:45
netritiousdaughter on the way home since schools are closing (again)16:46
wrstmy wife is on the way also due to snow :)16:49
wrstnetritious: VNC and gdm sounds interesting16:49
netritiousfrom what I recall from 2 am this morning...16:56
netritioussudo apt-get install vncserver (or maybe vnc-server?)16:57
netritiousvncpasswd ~/.vnc/passwd16:57
netritiousvncserver :116:58
wrsti have never tried to get it to work from GDM netritious, i've always just enabled the sharing through the preferences16:58
wrstmenu16:58
netritiousI should have clarified...16:59
netritiousgdm is starting16:59
wrsti'm curious how all that will work for you16:59
netritiousbut not my custom UNR install/session16:59
netritiouswell first I disabled gdm from starting up automatically17:00
wrstahh17:00
netritiouswhat's happening basically is that the netbook mods (maximus,clutter) are not being started as part of the gdm session17:01
netritiouswhen I connect with vncserver17:01
wrstahh i see, oh yeah 10.04 uses clutter i forget about that17:01
wrstor 10.10 does too i think17:01
netritiousto be perfectly honest I don't understand all the mechanics of it right now, but I'm working on it17:02
wrsti have never really messed with clutter17:03
netritiousafter I finish this have to work on setting up ssh tunnels for the vncserver17:03
wrsti just know on my desktop it didn't work so well, but not made for it17:03
netritiousclutter is cool...i dig it17:03
netritioususing as server interface atm17:04
wrstahh17:04
netritioussetting up as server interface anyway...17:04
netritiousbut it's all good..17:04
wrstwell if cyberanger were here he would remind that a gui for a server is for sissies ;)17:04
netritiouswhen the server boots, gdm doesn't start17:05
wrstbut you want it to correct?17:05
netritiouswell I'm keeping it down to as minimal as I can17:05
netritiousno multimedia, plain vanilla document viewer, lvm and virt manager, etc17:06
netritiousand starts at runlevel 317:06
netritiousvia /etc/init/gdm.conf17:06
wrsthmm ok i found  a little do but starts it at 217:07
wrsthttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=118734617:08
netritiousI used sysv-rc-conf, but upstart is where it's at17:09
netritious*I've used sysv-rc-init17:09
netritiousargh17:09
netritious*I've used sysv-rc-conf17:09
wrsthmm one think i like about arch, all that is in /etc/rc.conf add gdm to the daemons line and you are done17:10
wrst*thing17:10
netritiousnice17:10
wrstbut don't think i would want bleeding edge for my server ;)17:10
netritioushehe17:10
wrstthat woudl be scary , i'm running 10.04 at home still and it is wonderful17:11
netritious+117:11
wrstand i say "still" its not even a year old from its original release17:11
XpistosHey should I upgrade to 10.10 and then 11.04 or should I just wait?17:13
wrstXpistos: you will have to go that route if you are upgradeing from 10.04 to get to 11.0417:14
wrstbut the difference in 10.10 and 10.04 is near minimal and i think 10.04 is better in my mind17:14
XpistosI never upgrade17:14
Xpistosonly fresh installs17:15
wrstoh gotcha17:15
XpistosI have always had problems with upgrades17:15
wrsti would just wait then i don't think there is that much of a difference to me, i am running 10.10 right now17:15
netritiousXpistos: me to17:16
netritiousand not always the same problem17:16
wrstXpistos: i have had reasonable success with them17:16
wrstLTS to LTS upgrades always seem to work much better for me17:16
netritiousthey go about as well as a Windows upgrade for me :D17:16
wrstoh netritious i remember a win 98 to ME upgrade :\17:17
netritiousterrible days for admins17:17
netritiousheck terrible days for anyone using that stuff17:18
Xpistoslol17:18
wrstyeah that was horrible17:18
wrstnetritious: i ordered some RAM finally for that vista machine i was quizzing you about a few weeks ago the one with the dirty heat sink17:19
netritious98 SE ran somewhat solid if you were careful enough, but when 2k hit the market I never looked back17:19
Xpistosso wait for 11.04 then?17:19
XpistosHey, is there a windows program to convernt XML into readable files17:20
wrstXpistos: i don't know about 11.04 if its gotta go i would really stick with 10.04, i'm trying out 11.04 now17:20
wrsterr natty17:20
XpistosLike a spreadsheet or something17:20
netritiousif there aren't many changes from 10.04 to 10.10 yeah why not wait17:20
netritioushm...can you just import the xml file into a spreadsheet? it is 2011 for crying out loud17:21
XpistosMy install has been wonky for the last few weeks and I am way overdue for a reinstall anyway17:21
netritiousI'm saying spreadsheets should support xml by now, but never actually tried importing17:21
wrstXpistos: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-oocalc/?ca=dgr-lnxw16XSLT-OOo17:22
wrstthat looks a little complicated, i'm with netritious looks like it should just do it17:22
netritiousomgoodness xlst lol17:22
netritiousyeah, it should wrst17:23
netritiousxlst is a PITA to get your head wrapped around, kinda like regular expressions (xlst and regexp are nothing alike though)17:23
netritiousthe syntax is uber weird17:24
Xpistoswrst: nah that is too complicated for me17:24
wrstlooked too complicated for me too Xpistos :)17:24
netritiousXpistos:17:25
netritiousdepending on the XML file I have an old php5 function that I might be able to tweak to transform to csv17:25
netritiousor if you know php you can hack at it17:26
Xpistosi don't17:27
Xpistosuet17:27
Xpistosyet17:27
netritioushttp://pastebin.com/x1Pgnr1D17:28
netritiousexamples at the bottom17:29
cyberangerwrst: all clients can set away, some don't show the status as nicely as others17:58
wrstthis i know cyberanger i have never seen yours do that before17:59
wrsti thougth maybe you had moved over to using quassel17:59
cyberangerand why would I remind netritious gui is for sissies, your doing that for me ;-)18:00
wrstha well thought since you were gone cyberanger.... but i will never call netritious a sissy18:00
cyberangerno, it's just rare I remember to set away on more than one network (bitlbee)18:01
wrstahh well me too18:01
* wrst wonders why the cronjob of setting his clock has not been working18:02
cyberangerwhat's the entry look like18:03
wrstha well i don't have an entry cyberanger, that's why!18:03
wrstmust have done that before i had to reinstall18:03
cyberangerand how do you set that in  a gui?18:03
cyberangerwell, that would do it18:03
wrstok i have it set now hopefully that will keep me up to date after 34 days i was behind 4 minutes18:04
cyberangerwrst: are you using ntpdate (sounds like it18:06
cyberanger)18:06
wrstyes i am18:07
wrstis there a better option cyberanger?18:07
cyberangerntpd18:07
wrsthmm didn't really think about there being an option :)18:08
netritiousjust bought the domain linux 4sissies.org18:09
netritiousj/k :)18:10
cyberangerwrst: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime18:13
cyberangernetritious: that gets into your options, but ntp is really the best18:13
netritiouscyberanger: you meant wrst I bet18:14
cyberangeryeah, I did, whopps18:15
wrstha ha i got it thnks cyberanger :)18:16
cyberangernetritious: that domain, should it be a .com, blog about converting to linux18:16
cyberanger( for dummies is already taken, after all ;-))18:17
netritioushehe18:19
netritiouscyberanger: do you use vncserver/Xvnc?18:23
cyberangerssh18:23
netritiouslol, I know you use ssh18:23
wrstnetritious: cyberanger is having to make up for past smart alicisms that he has missed today18:24
netritiouseveryone, raise your hand if you use ssh o/18:24
cyberangerwell, with irssi, weechat, mutt, elinks, vlc (-I ncurses) rtorrent18:24
cyberangerwhat else do I need ;-)18:24
netritiousreminds me of Mrs Slocum? saying "..and I'm unanimous in that!"18:25
netritiousAre You Being Served18:25
cyberangeroh, why a nice tool to manage it, screen, maybe a volume app, alsamixer, and a network manager, wicd-curses ;-)18:25
netritiouswicd wasn't for me18:26
cyberangerno need for vnc, with all that18:26
netritiousoh I agree, but I like options18:26
cyberangernetritious: what did you try it on, what version, ncurses or gtk18:26
netritiousgtk18:27
cyberangerhrm, no clue on version ?18:27
netritiouswhatever is in repos for 10.0418:27
netritiousdoesn't manage bridged networking, at least not that I could tell18:28
cyberangerwhat was the shortfall for you18:28
netritious^18:28
cyberangerah, yeah, bridged networking, dunno if network-manager can do that either though18:28
netritiousthat and it did not apply a configuration until after I logged in, which makes sense to some degree18:28
netritiouswith gdm/gnome and all18:28
netritiousit doesn't18:29
netritiousI manage it manually18:29
netritious/etc/network/interfaces18:29
netritiouseasy enough :)18:29
cyberangeryeah, and I think the config bit is probally a safe idea18:29
netritiousyeah18:30
cyberangeresp since you have network passwords there, and can have an encrypted home18:30
cyberangermeans it won't complain if you use the file from $HOME18:30
netritiousI just created a menu link for "Network Interfaces" mapped to gksudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces18:31
netritiousotherwise I use nano, can use vi is desperate18:31
netritious*if desperate18:31
netritious=not without a cheatsheet18:32
netritiousI remember most of vi commands, but not enough sometimes lol18:32
netritiousI always end up looking something up18:32
netritiousanyways I like being able to start gdm/gnome from afar if needed OR create a one-time vnc session for gnome18:34
cyberangervi isn't something I'm a fan of, luckily I don't need to be18:34
netritiousthe end goal is to tunnel it through ssh18:34
wrstcyberanger: i really don't understand vi and nano is so easy to use, is there any advantage to vi?18:35
netritiousvi is available on any *nix18:36
cyberangerwrst: when it's already on the freebsd computers I've worked with, and nano's not18:36
netritiousif you know vi you can get around on most if not all *nix18:36
wrstok i understand that then :\18:36
cyberangerto compile or not to compile, that is the question18:36
* wrst might need to learn how to use the confusing thing18:36
cyberangerwrst: or have a cheetsheet and a loaded gun nearby18:37
wrstyeah18:37
cyberanger(the gun is for the computer, useful tool to put it out of it's misery)18:37
netritiousI never compile on linux unless I have to18:39
cyberangernetritious: and bsd?18:39
netritiousI use ports :)18:40
netritiouson pfsense I use pkg_add though18:40
cyberangerstill compiling18:40
netritiousbut pfsense isn't exactly freebsd18:40
netritiouspkg_add is for pre-compiled binaries18:41
netritiousthat you get form a package repo like using apt18:41
netritious*from18:41
cyberangerwell, it's not freebsd being key18:43
netritiousnow that I think about it I guess you can pkg_add src lol18:43
netritiouspkg_add is pkg_add on both freebsd and pfsense18:44
* wrst 's head is spinning he just likes checking email and social networking sites from home18:45
netritioushttp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-8.1-release/Latest/18:45
netritiousI'm really out of touch with freebsd other than pfsense implementation of it, which was originally based m0n0wall project, which uses PHP for the system init, which makes it "not really freebsd"18:47
cyberangerwrst: ouch, social networking, really :-?18:48
netritioushehe18:48
cyberanger(at least your using a secure os, compared to most)18:48
wrstno not really cyberanger18:48
wrstjust being a punk18:48
cyberanger(at least your using a secure os, compared to most)18:49
netritiouslol18:49
wrstcyberanger: i have actually been incorporating ubuntu a lot more here at work18:49
cyberangercool18:51
cyberanger95% or ...18:51
wrstyes especially printint to pdf, making pdf's scanning that type of thing18:51
wrstoh more like the 5% but...18:51
* cyberanger wonders about wrst sometimes18:55
wrsti wonder about me sometimes cyberanger18:55
netritiousIs it naive to think a modern OS is what makes a system secure or not?18:56
cyberangerintresting, it's easier to mess with a propitery document format with open souce tools18:56
wrstit is for me cyberanger, and go figure that out18:56
cyberangernetritious: depends, name a modern windows based OS ;-)18:57
netritiousmodern=release in the last 2 years lol18:57
netritiouswell, let's say 1-1.5 years18:58
cyberangerI think when kept up to date, continuously, and otherwise properly setup and maintained, yes18:58
cyberangerwhich means windows fails that on my markers18:58
netritioushehe18:58
wrstcyberanger: really if you are smart and have users set up in the right way windows can be ok18:58
wrstbut that rarely ever happens18:59
cyberangerand your users still is where alot of the mess is18:59
netritiouscyberanger: that was the point I was making18:59
cyberangerand the level of out of the box support, to lock it down, that's where I fault windows19:00
netritious+1 wrst for his observation :)19:00
cyberangernetritious: for linux, things are more or less locked down to home19:00
cyberangerI agree the users still pose risk, but the level for a clumsby user is deluser and adduser19:01
cyberangerand done19:01
netritiousfirewall is disabled by default, well there are no rules, in ubuntu 10.0419:01
netritiousfirewall enabled by default on windows since XP SP219:02
netritiousjust sayin' lol19:02
wrstnetritious: i thought ufw was installed and enabled by default?19:02
netritiousit is but there are no rules19:02
cyberangernetritious: but no network services listening in distros19:02
netritiousand no not enabled I don't think19:02
netritiouscyberanger: install a package and you might, or run some script and you might19:03
cyberangerwell, ubuntu enables dhcp, unfortunately, overlooked that19:03
netritiouswinders does to19:03
wrstnetritious: i've just noticed when installing certain packages it does things to ufw19:03
cyberangeryeah, but the administrator should be the one setting up the network and running sudo19:04
netritiousjoe bob 9-5'er user doesn't know anything about that stuff19:05
cyberangerdebian has nothing listening, and netinst and altinst is more refined on ubuntu19:05
netritiousthat stuff=admin19:05
cyberangernetritious: true, but he should19:06
cyberangersame on windows19:06
cyberangerit'd be like owning a car but you don't know how to change a flat19:06
netritiouschanging a flat and a BSOD or grub> prompt not the same lol19:07
netritiousplenty people know how to change tires without being a mechanic19:08
wrstok netritious looking is ufw enabled on the desktop?19:09
netritiousI know it's installed, but it is not to the best of my knowledge enabled in any way19:09
cyberangernetritious: I'm not saying you need to be an admin either19:09
netritiouseasiest way to tell...19:09
netritioussudo iptables -L19:10
netritiousif you don't see any rules then traffic is flowing freely19:10
cyberangerknow about malware's common vectors, and why not running as root for everything is good19:10
wrstok netritious19:10
* wrst heads to look19:10
cyberangersudo iptbles and netstat --inet -l are a useful match19:11
cyberangernetritious: and for everything else, consulte your "mechanic"19:11
netritiousyeah ain't that the truth cyberanger19:11
wrstyep just confirmed on my server will check desktop when i have it fired back up, glad i have a firewall on my router atleast :\19:12
netritiousgot to hand it to some people trying to figure it out on their  own but sometimes they just make a bad thing worse19:12
wrstnetritious:  like me and painting at my house sometimes its better to hire a pro19:13
netritiousI like netstat --inet -ln19:13
netritioushehe19:13
cyberangerwrst: but where's the fun in that19:13
netritiouswell nothing like learning everyday19:13
netritiousI enjoy it...most of the time :)19:14
cyberangernetritious: netstat -alvenc19:14
cyberangernetritious: netstat --inet -alvenc19:14
cyberangerthat's my fav19:14
netritiousheh good one cyberanger19:15
cyberangercrud, bind9 got a bad update, fried rndc, and my lan domain in the process19:17
netritiousthat sucks cyberanger19:17
cyberangernetritious: it's useful when something is just hammering you, built in tool, togo with you built in firewall19:18
cyberangernetritious: the annoying part is it took out my local mirror19:23
cyberangerindirectly19:23
cyberangersince it's based on the domain name19:24
* cyberanger goes to add a (temporary) hosts entry19:24
cyberangerthis'll be back up in 5 minutes or less, just should have been less, computers know binary, how's zero downtime look :-/19:25
wrstXpistos: its you again?19:44
Xpistosyep19:45
wrstgoodness thought we were through with you for the day :P19:45
cyberangerservers back up19:48
cyberangerwoot19:48
cyberangerwrst: ouch, that hurts over here for some reason, right next to my splean19:48
wrstcyberanger:  that was only directed towards Xpistos :)19:50
cyberangerthus my suprise, your aim is off19:50
wrstbut cyberanger i like you... Xpistos... nah not so much :D19:52
XpistosYeah cyberanger19:53
XpistosHe likes you  ... me not so much19:53
cyberangerlol19:53
wrstha ha nah Xpistos i like you too... cyberanger is just smarter than we are so we have to suck up :)19:53
XpistosI don't, i just have to offer him a podcast for that19:54
wrsth aha :)19:54
* cyberanger wonders how everybody is doing today20:08
wrsti'm a little bit of a pain in th e  rear today cyberanger :)20:15
cyberangerwrst: uh, glad to hear it20:18
cyberangerI think20:18
wrstha ha well i always am20:20
chibihogoshinoits so quiet i can hear my self think..20:50
cyberangerchibihogoshino: it's so quiet in here I can hear a ping drop21:13
chibihogoshinolol21:13
chibihogoshinowhat about a pong21:13
cyberangersuppose so21:15
cyberangernever too worried about a pong21:15
wrstchibihogoshino: :P21:16
* wrst makes a weak attempt to liven things up21:17
chibihogoshinoheh21:17
chibihogoshinoits manga day21:17
techMileshey guiz22:33
wrsthey techMiles!23:13
techMiles:D23:13
wrstwhat's up?23:13
techMilesNot a lot here. working on my actionlist.23:14
techMilesaka todolist. but stuff I can actually DO. lol23:14
cyberangerlol23:15
wrsthmm good perspective i generally work on my... stuff i will never do list :)23:15
techMilesyeah23:16
techMilesI have one of those23:16
techMiles:D23:16
techMilesthus why I differentiate23:16
wrstha ha techMiles i need to reconsider my list organization!23:16
techMilesyeah23:16
* wrst considers sending all his list to techMiles for organization23:17
techMilesmine was inspired by reading so much about productivity and lists (that it actually interfered WITH my productivity. how's that irony for ya), and a professor of mine who uses that actionlist.23:17
techMileswrst: lmao. I don't know what you can/can't do. but I can try and work on it. xD23:17
wrst:)23:17
wrstoh laziness is my culprit techMiles23:17
techMilesactionlist #1) Consulting fee to tech.miles@gmail.com paypal. $200.23:18
wrstha ha23:18
wrstthat will help me get over my laziness and do it myself!23:18
wrst:)23:18
techMilesactionlist #2) reverse-psychology therapist. fee to tech.miles paypal. $50.23:19
techMilesactionlist #3) never getting anything done on your lists. Priceless23:19
wrst:)23:20
* wrst has not seen the great blizzard part 6 of 2011 yet23:22
elijah-mbpit really started snowing hard when i went to wally world earlier, wrst.23:25
wrstelijah-mbp: milk and bread??? :)23:25
elijah-mbpham, milk, hamburger helper, and DIET SODA.23:25
elijah-mbpdiet soda was the real important part of that.23:25
* wrst notices the all caps diet soda as he is chugging a fat filled Dr. Pepper23:25
elijah-mbphaha23:26
wrstelijah-mbp: i have never completely figured out the milk and bread rush on stores especially when we are getting a meager 1-3"23:26
elijah-mbp<-- diabetic, can't drink the real stuff anymore23:26
wrstbut now hamburger and what not... i fully understand that :)23:26
* techMiles can't drink diet.23:26
techMilesThe artificial sweeteners give me a migraine23:26
netritiousdinner time..cya later alligators23:44

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