[00:07] <RAOF> Seems about right.
[02:26] <RAOF> Hah, yes.  There it is.
[02:38] <bryceh> good bye McCreary desktop.  hello sandybridge desktop
[02:40] <RAOF> Ooooh funky.
[03:01] <LLStarks> yup, that graphical corruption from bug 710961 can be reliably replicated while scrolling sites in firefox.
[03:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 710961 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] Screen Corruption with new Xorg stack (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710961
[03:01] <LLStarks> shut up ubot
[03:02] <LLStarks> j/k love ya
[03:30] <RAOF> Ok, that's useful to know.
[10:28] <tjaalton> mvo: looks like bug 614993 has some people complaining about the same upgrade issue I had yesterday, removing nouveau was the cure
[10:28] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 614993 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "10.04 -> 10.10 upgrade fails: pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks: xserver-xorg-video-v4l demoted to universe (affects: 46) (dups: 11) (heat: 250)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614993
[10:28] <tjaalton> with logs, even
[10:29] <mvo> tjaalton: hm, fix released, is the fix incomplete?
[10:31] <tjaalton> mvo: they hijacked the bug.. :/
[10:31] <mvo> bää
[10:32] <tjaalton> :)
[10:34] <tjaalton> I could open a new one and ask them to join
[13:44] <mdeslaur> A small Haiku to sum up my feelings this morning:
[13:44] <mdeslaur> Nouveau drives my card,
[13:44] <mdeslaur> Makes my graphics open-source.
[13:44] <mdeslaur> Please stop freezing though!
[13:46] <tjaalton> yes, likely a kernel bug
[13:46] <tjaalton> you can try vanilla 2.6.36 and see if that helps :)
[13:47] <tjaalton> apparently the changes in .37 broke it
[13:47] <tjaalton> well, causes a hang that I'm seeing
[13:48] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: and it's still not fixed in .38?
[13:48] <tjaalton> no
[13:48] <tjaalton> see fdo bug 33999
[13:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 33999 in kubuntu-meta (Baltix) (and 1 other project) "/dev/ram Alert! does not exist (DVD install) (dup-of: 27539)" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33999
[13:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 27539 in ubuntu "issue in booting live dvd (dups: 1) (heat: 1)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27539
[13:48] <tjaalton> bah
[13:48] <tjaalton> freedesktop bug 33999
[13:48]  * mdeslaur kicks ubot4
[13:49] <ubot4> Freedesktop bug 33999 in Driver/nouveau "2.6.37 - NV11 crashes X if glxgears started" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33999
[13:49] <tjaalton> the same trace with my nv50
[13:50] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: ah, yes, I get that with libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental installed. But, I don't have it installed right now, and am getting freezes 3-4 times a day.
[13:51] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: hmm yes, could be related or not
[13:51] <tjaalton> seen it too
[14:35] <tseliot> tjaalton: is the kernel in xorg-edgers Natty's kernel?
[14:35] <Sarvatt> tseliot: yep it is
[14:35] <tseliot> Sarvatt: ok, thanks
[22:05] <pwnguin> had a random question from a frustrated user. they want to remove -nouveau but leave other x drivers intact
[22:05] <pwnguin> why does xserver-xorg-video-all use depends vs recommends?
[22:10] <RAOF> Because it's not essential itself.
[22:10] <dandel> I don't know about removing the driver, however, it's easy enough to disable (Blacklist the nouveu module), or boot with the xforcevesa boot option added.
[22:10] <RAOF> ie: there's no penalty to not having xserver-xorg-video-all installed.
[22:11] <pwnguin> the complaint is that debian dependencies are too complicated, unlike arch
[22:11] <pwnguin> so when you go to remove nouveau, it asks to remove -all, and then autoremove everything else
[22:12] <dandel> hmm... sounds like your request is to lighten the cd load a bit by using vesa or vga driver by default, and then do like what is done with the closed source drivers, and ask if you want the other drivers installed ?
[22:13] <pwnguin> well, i donno about that. mainly just trying to figure out why this is different than ubuntu-desktop
[22:13] <RAOF> At least in part because Ubuntu-desktop's Recommends: are user-visible.
[22:13] <dandel> personally, i think that would be a better option to begin with, actually.
[22:14] <RAOF> Wheras the user-visible difference between having -nouveau installed or not is ~400KiB of disc space.
[22:14] <dandel> I have had issues with Ubuntu 10.04 boot because of my video card (not supported by radeon driver) in that release... so it's harder.
[22:16] <dandel> most end users who are new will grab the lts version, and if it auto-sets things which are not properly supported it can be troublesome... 10.04 kernel does not support rhd5000 or newer cards, but forces radeon driver by default on them anyways.
[22:17] <RAOF> Well, that's a bug.  The drivers *should* fall back cleanly to vesa when encountering unsupported hardware.
[22:17] <RAOF> But using vesa on the livecd isn't a good option.
[22:17] <LLStarks> https://lists.launchpad.net/hybrid-graphics-linux/msg00450.html
[22:17] <dandel> well, the livecd in 10.04 is useless with rhd5000 (or newer) cards unless you force vesa.
[22:18] <pwnguin> im just looking at the policy and it's not quite an absolute dependency. i think recommends would be sufficient, and traditional for metapackages, so i was thinking there might have been a reason for it
[22:18] <LLStarks> if we can turn optimus cards off, i hope we can turn them on.
[22:19] <dandel> RAOF, the problem with that is the xorg driver does not always know that the device is unsupported, and is blanket enabled on all cards which have the rhd 2000 or higher id set.
[22:19] <RAOF> pwnguin: It's probably a holdover from when Debian didn't install recommends by default.
[22:24] <RAOF> dandel: Actually, it's got a list of supported PCIIDs and checks aganist that.  The X server will always try to load radeon on all ati hardware, but the radeon driver will check against its list.
[22:26] <dandel> RAOF, True, however, what happens when the kernel module does not support the card... which is the case with 10.04 and the rhd5000 series.
[22:26] <LLStarks> does radeonhd support it?
[22:26] <dandel> Not in 10.04.
[22:26] <RAOF> LLStarks: radeonhd doesn't usefully support anything anymore :)
[22:27] <dandel> i get garbage and system freezes with the open source driver on 10.04.
[22:27] <RAOF> dandel: In that case, the radeon driver should fall back to its UMS support; if that doesn't work, it's a bug in the driver.  But it's not because it doesn't (in theory) support the card :)
[22:28] <dandel> Yea, and i can reproduce this bug every time... on livecd and usb (although usb creation for 10.04.1 amd64 is also broken, no boot menu)