| holstein | ailo: performance is similar right? | 01:01 |
|---|---|---|
| holstein | i bet this kernel issue is about to just take care of itself | 01:02 |
| * holstein crosses fingers | 01:02 | |
| ailo | holstein: what kernel issua? | 01:02 |
| holstein | well, our kernel issue | 01:02 |
| holstein | the US need for -lowlatency or -rt | 01:02 |
| ailo | holstein: I found the latest -generic to have exactly as low latency as -lowlatency, but didn't do extensive testing | 01:03 |
| ailo | After another look, -generic does not seem to have the same preempt configurations, so I wonder how it works :/ | 01:03 |
| holstein | you could ask JFo | 01:03 |
| holstein | maybe he would know that | 01:03 |
| holstein | BUT thats great news on performance | 01:04 |
| holstein | i know thats where we are heading | 01:04 |
| holstein | and im cool with it | 01:04 |
| holstein | i need to check it with FW | 01:04 |
| JFo | there have been a number of improvements to performance from upstream | 01:04 |
| ailo | I couldn't believe it at first. Yea, you should check your with your fw :) | 01:04 |
| JFo | it is part of the effort to move -rt into the kernel I believe | 01:04 |
| holstein | JFo: yeah, like in the last version even it seems :) | 01:04 |
| JFo | yep | 01:05 |
| holstein | thats awesome | 01:05 |
| JFo | I'm guessing as to the cause though | 01:05 |
| holstein | thats twice recently the buntu kernel team has really noticably rocked the house | 01:05 |
| holstein | for me | 01:05 |
| JFo | yeah, we have recently been twiddling some settings too | 01:05 |
| holstein | JFo: i'll have to test with FW | 01:05 |
| holstein | and mark my bitchy bug | 01:06 |
| JFo | k | 01:06 |
| ailo | If the -generic is as good as -lowlatency or -rt, all that is left is to add user to audio group to be in business. Incidentally, I think on Debian this is done automatically when installing jackd. I will need to doublecheck, but if Debian can do it, why not Ubuntu? | 01:14 |
| holstein | ailo: maybe | 01:15 |
| holstein | seems like there is something trying to side step that need as well | 01:15 |
| holstein | something upstream | 01:16 |
| holstein | maybe if we just sit still long enough | 01:16 |
| holstein | eveything will just fix itself ;) | 01:16 |
| ailo | holstein: You mean not needing audio group anymore? As long as the software needs it, we need it. I'm not an expert, but I don't think we can be without it in Natty. | 01:17 |
| holstein | agreed | 01:17 |
| ailo | Don't know much about the new solution, but as far as I understand, it won't be fully implemented yet, because the software packages need to be updated | 01:18 |
| scott-work | TheMuso: are you finding some time becoming available to help me get the gnome-classic default xsessions patch pushed? or should i start poking around on #ubuntu-motu? | 13:58 |
| scott-work | hi JamesHarrison :) | 13:58 |
| scott-work | morning abogani :) how do you and persia stand on getting the -lowlatency kernel into the repository? i believe the last thing i remember was that you were waiting for the 2.6.38 kernel? | 13:59 |
| scott-work | paultag: are you still waiting for doctormo for ubuntustudio-controls? | 14:00 |
| abogani | scott-work: The -lowlatency kernel is updated and synced with -generic _but_ I doubt that it will be included into official repo. | 14:00 |
| ailo | abogani: It seems the latest -generic kernel performs about as well as the -lowlatency. Is there some caveat with the latest -generic that we don't know about? | 15:04 |
| abogani | ailo: No. | 15:09 |
| abogani | In any case I suspect that testers haven't put enough workload in their tests. | 15:10 |
| ailo | abogani: We were planning to create a test. So far nothing has been done :/. I should try get something done on that soon | 15:11 |
| abogani | However I'll be very happy to know that -lowlatency isn't still necessary. | 15:12 |
| abogani | scott-work: ^ | 15:12 |
| scott-work | abogani: i infer that persia shares your concern about load and performance when contrasting -generic and -lowlatency kernels | 15:14 |
| paultag | scott-work: yeah, I'm starting to get pissed | 15:17 |
| scott-work | paultag: lol, dont' stress too much. is there something i can do to help? learn glade? create a UI? fret and wring my hands? | 15:19 |
| ailo | paultag: scott-work: What's the deal with the -controls now? Seems like most features are not really needed right now | 15:19 |
| ailo | I don't know if -generic will keep being good with realtime, but if it will -lowlatency is not needed. | 15:20 |
| ailo | Audio group is the only thing absolutely needed to be in business. Restricted extras seems like a nice thing to add too | 15:21 |
| paultag | scott-work: yeah, Glade is really what's blocking. I'm going to hound his ass to get it done | 15:22 |
| paultag | ailo: humm? Not sure, but it will be good to unsuck it, at least | 15:22 |
| paultag | ailo: if I can make it pluginable then we can be set | 15:22 |
| scott-work | ailo: but let's make the decision if -lowlatency is needed or not after some more testing, specifically how they perform under significant load | 15:22 |
| ailo | plugin-able sounds like a deal | 15:23 |
| paultag | then we can just add a new requirement if we need it | 15:23 |
| paultag | and the cost of maintaining it will be simple :) | 15:23 |
| paultag | but that comes *after* it's stable and working for natty | 15:24 |
| ailo | persia: I started working on a test program using puredata, to test the kernels. When adding CPU workload, the actual process doesn't really need to be processing audio, right? | 17:48 |
| ailo | As long as jack is connected to puredata, does it really matter if any sound is put through? | 17:49 |
| falktx | hey, how come ubuntustudio doesnt have a 10.04.1 ISO ? | 18:20 |
| scott-work | falktx: what did you do with it? | 18:46 |
| falktx | scott-work: for 10.04 installs, so we dont have to get all the updates after a new install | 18:47 |
| scott-work | falktx: i know, i was just messing with you, like you had misplaced it or something | 18:51 |
| scott-work | i need help! currently the team report looks like a PR campaing for me | 18:52 |
| scott-work | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports | 18:52 |
| scott-work | er, campaign no campaing | 18:52 |
| scott-work | please help me fill in things that other people have done! | 18:52 |
| scott-work | use this link and update it if you did something awesome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/11/January | 18:52 |
| scott-work | or even not very awesome but pretty cool :) | 18:53 |
| scott-work | and if someone wanted to volunteer to become team secretary and keep up with the team report that would be uber cool to me | 18:53 |
| scott-work | 18:53 | |
| scott-work | i should also note that i'm working on a schedule for the team that is based on ubuntu's schedule | 18:54 |
| scott-work | it will help us know when certain things are due, like team reports or alpha release notes | 18:54 |
| scott-work | think of it like a play book, it tells you what to do next :) | 18:54 |
| paultag | scott-work: doctormo's pissed out on me. I'm going to have to fly solo. he gave me a big middlefinger by sending me 2-minute crap | 18:55 |
| ailo | paultag: What do you need ehlp with? | 19:58 |
| ailo | help* | 19:58 |
| ailo | I'm not getting the same latency results with the -generic as before. I wonder what has changed. It's the same kernel after all | 20:21 |
| ailo | ScottL: I don't know what's going on, but the -generic kernel is not behaving the same way as before, after some upgrades. | 20:24 |
| ailo | Because of this, I hardly see any reason to compare -generic with -lowlatency, as I am unable to achieve same latency just having jackd on. | 20:25 |
| ailo | -lowlatency gives no xruns when flooding the CPU, until CPU reaches 100% (I have 2, so both need to be maxed in order to get xruns) | 20:26 |
| ailo | So, xruns do appear after reaching 100% on all processor cores | 20:27 |
| ailo | I haven't done any dynamic testing. But, as long as -generic is not to be trusted, I don't see any reason to continue this test. | 20:28 |
| ailo | Anyway, my conclusion is that -lowlatency seems reliable and that -generic does not. | 20:28 |
| ailo | scott-upstairs: hey | 20:40 |
| holstein | that is odd | 21:04 |
| ailo | holstein: Yea. Seems like we better stick to the -lowlatency after all. | 21:05 |
| ScottL | ailo, sorry, i'm at home now, left early from work to pick up kids before the freeze hits and make the overpasses dangerous | 21:25 |
| holstein | yeah, again with the freezing... | 21:25 |
| ScottL | ailo, holstein, two things have happened recently in regards to the kernel that i'm aware of | 21:25 |
| ScottL | holstein, lol, we're not used to it texas | 21:25 |
| ScottL | ailo, first they enable the "100 line patch" and upstream was suppose to be fixing the "kernel panic" bug as well | 21:26 |
| ScottL | i don't know their respective states other than i _believe_ i saw that the 100 line patch was included now, i think david henessey (not his real last name) said it was included | 21:26 |
| ailo | ScottL: I'm still on 2.6.38-1, but getting different results than before. It must be something else than the kernel that does that. | 21:27 |
| ScottL | henningson, that's his last name | 21:27 |
| ScottL | ailo, that wouldn't surprise me to be honest | 21:27 |
| ScottL | my computer became extremely unstable when upgrading to natty, 4 out of 5 boots resulted in kernel panic | 21:28 |
| ailo | ScottL: I'm having trouble booting too | 21:28 |
| ailo | But, I'm not sure it's kernel panic | 21:28 |
| ScottL | using aptitude i "upgraded" to natty, but choose not to include grub or the kernel updates and it was much more stable | 21:28 |
| ailo | Once, I got a message. Something about udevd | 21:28 |
| ailo | Allthough, the message was looped | 21:29 |
| ScottL | ailo, when booting my computer would stop, most time spit unintellible (to me) text, and the two right lights on the keyboard would flash | 21:29 |
| ailo | I'm testing 2.6.38-4 on Debian. It also has some issues, but no problems booting yet on AMD64. | 21:29 |
| ScottL | and i had to do a hard reboot | 21:29 |
| ScottL | ailo, but earlier i had tried "upgrading" with only eliminating the kernel (meaning grub was included in the "upgrade") and i still suffered kernel panics | 21:30 |
| ailo | ScottL: Same here, hard reboot. No flashing, though. Numlock can't be toggled | 21:30 |
| ailo | So, it's Grub, then | 21:30 |
| ailo | ScottL: Last few boots have been problem free. | 21:32 |
| ailo | But, hard to say anything yet | 21:32 |
| ScottL | ailo, i don't know that it's grub, but my experience would suggest that it might be part of the problem | 21:33 |
| ScottL | i say this because the bug report mentioned that upstream knew of the problem and was fixing it (in the kernel) | 21:33 |
| ScottL | so who knows | 21:33 |
| ScottL | holstein, i had an idea i want to run by you | 21:33 |
| ScottL | in a minute | 21:33 |
| holstein | sure | 21:34 |
| holstein | im around | 21:34 |
| holstein | about to interview JAG from din is noise | 21:34 |
| holstein | if we can get mumble working for him | 21:34 |
| holstein | or an alternative in general | 21:34 |
| ScottL | holstein, it's about the live installer for ubuntu studio, an alternate idea for installing software | 21:35 |
| ScottL | holstein, so, i we get the live installer working but can't user the tasksel anymore | 21:35 |
| ScottL | holstein, we might consider making ubuntustudio-controls more pervasive to include applications installation | 21:35 |
| ScottL | hear me out | 21:35 |
| holstein | i like that | 21:36 |
| ScottL | before anyone jumps on me because there already is apt-get, synaptic, and software-center | 21:36 |
| ScottL | the main apps could still be included on the dvd but not installed immediately | 21:36 |
| holstein | just gotta decide what the 'base' install is or should be | 21:36 |
| ScottL | it would be preferable to install all the desired apps during the initial installation | 21:36 |
| holstein | thats probably where you'll get jumped on :) | 21:36 |
| ScottL | but if we can't get a tasksel replacement then this is what we can do | 21:37 |
| ScottL | and like the thought for controls right now, on first boot up pops up the dialogue and says, | 21:37 |
| ScottL | "you havent' installed any awesome apps yet. would you like to make your computer awesome?" | 21:37 |
| ScottL | but wait, that isn't hte good part | 21:37 |
| ScottL | what if we made it like plugins | 21:37 |
| ailo | ScottL: I still much prefer a CD over a DVD, because of the problems with DVD. I would shrink the amount of programs installed by default, and add a list of all Multimedia programs to -controls in that case. | 21:38 |
| ScottL | meaning you could select tasks to accomplish, i.e. i want to record my band or i like to make techno music | 21:38 |
| ScottL | or i want to do video editing | 21:38 |
| ScottL | think of this like the banks available in rakarrack | 21:38 |
| ScottL | you pick the button (or buttons) that suits your desired "task" and boom! it installs all the pertinent ones | 21:39 |
| holstein | i like it | 21:39 |
| ScottL | ailo, what problems do you experience with DVD? | 21:39 |
| holstein | goes along with the new metas well | 21:39 |
| holstein | and no one else is doing it | 21:39 |
| ScottL | holstein, there could even be a button that says, "no thanks, i'll install my own apps by hand" | 21:39 |
| holstein | *that i know of | 21:39 |
| ScottL | for the autostatic's out there :P | 21:39 |
| ailo | ScottL: DVD's are harder to burn. You burn on one system, it might not work on the next. | 21:39 |
| holstein | ScottL: yup | 21:40 |
| holstein | has to be an opt-out | 21:40 |
| ailo | And DVD's get very easily corrupted | 21:40 |
| ScottL | just few thinking about moving forward and throwing out ideas to explore | 21:40 |
| holstein | it would be $$ if the live installer DVD could be a CD | 21:40 |
| holstein | but i dont think we can fit | 21:40 |
| ailo | I would prefer a very simple, but functional default installation, and maybe add a "install everything" button. | 21:40 |
| ScottL | ailo, i like the idea of offering a cd but there are also some compelling reasons to have a dvd as well | 21:41 |
| ScottL | we could certainly explore all the options | 21:41 |
| holstein | eh, i like this idea though | 21:41 |
| holstein | its unique | 21:41 |
| ScottL | if you follow this: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=ubuntu+daily+build&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 | 21:41 |
| holstein | and you could have a 'podcasting' button | 21:42 |
| ailo | ScottL: A DVD is nice, if there is no internet connection. From all other aspects, a CD is better in my view | 21:42 |
| ScottL | the first three hits should be for "ubuntu daily build" | 21:42 |
| holstein | that would get you the stuff from that meta | 21:42 |
| ScottL | one for alternate, another for live and yet a third for a dvd full of stuff | 21:42 |
| ScottL | holstein, the nice thing about this is that we don't have to use tasks or metapackages for this | 21:42 |
| ScottL | of course it means we need to keep a text file with what we feel is appropriate for each task | 21:42 |
| ScottL | but that is how it is like a plugin | 21:43 |
| ScottL | just podcast-meta.txt file to replace or fix | 21:43 |
| ailo | ScottL: If you can provide both a CD and a DVD, that would be great | 21:43 |
| ScottL | ailo, we can always ask :) | 21:43 |
| ailo | The would cover all uses | 21:43 |
| ScottL | ailo, but before i ask anyone about building more images for specific reasons i would want to develop a well though to plan that provides desirable benefit to users | 21:47 |
| ScottL | and maybe even have a working demo of the new "control panel" | 21:48 |
| ScottL | i really don't want to go bothering people who may not take us as serious and all the "unity users" with half-baked ideas and wishes | 21:48 |
| ailo | ScottL: We have the live Ubuntu cd, of course, which works almost as well.. | 21:49 |
| ailo | ScottL: I think the ultimate solution would be to have UbuntuStudio included as a tasksel in the regular Ubuntu live CD | 21:50 |
| ailo | The most important things I find are that you get a functional base system, that is optimized for multimedia work | 21:51 |
| ScottL | ailo, or you could use the "super ubuntustudio-controls" that allow you to install apps based on tasks :) | 21:51 |
| ScottL | and adjust settings, i.e. adding user to audio or installing better kernel | 21:51 |
| ScottL | i think we could provide better granularity for package installation if we moved away from debian "tasks" and the tasksel application | 21:53 |
| ailo | ScottL: "Tasks" are so different for everyone. Why not just focus on a base configuration, and maybe have some sort of a database with programs, where you can search for programs after function, like sequencer, sampler, video editor... | 21:53 |
| ScottL | again, this is just talking outside of the box and free thinking | 21:53 |
| ScottL | ailo, that is true, that could be done as well | 21:54 |
| ScottL | or in substitution of what i suggested | 21:54 |
| ScottL | ailo, i suppose i'm thinking of new users and trying to lower the threshold for them to become productive | 21:54 |
| ScottL | if we have well defined (we're almost there) and documented (not even close) work flows that would help new user | 21:55 |
| ScottL | but so would having a tick box to install those applications | 21:55 |
| ailo | ScottL: I think having at least one program for every function is enough. New users are likely to already know what is a sequencer, or what is an audio plugin. | 21:56 |
| ailo | Documentation would be great | 21:56 |
| ailo | Some sort of database for software. | 21:57 |
| ScottL | ultimately i think it comes down to what we can provide given our means, i.e. are there enough talented people present who can commit ? | 21:57 |
| ScottL | i'm not a coder, although i have done programming 20+ years ago | 21:58 |
| ScottL | i don't think holstein is a coder | 21:58 |
| ScottL | i think paultag is the only person currently onboard who can code | 21:58 |
| ailo | Because of where Ubuntu seems to be going with Unity, I think UbuntuStudio should try to keep simple, mainstream and functional | 21:59 |
| ScottL | and who isn't pulled in 100 other directions :/ | 21:59 |
| ScottL | those are very desirable qualities ailo :) | 21:59 |
| ScottL | did you know that i kinda new what a sequencer was, but didn't really understood what it did until two days ago? | 22:00 |
| ScottL | isn't that crazy :P | 22:00 |
| ScottL | [lsd]'s tutorials were instrumental into getting me to feel that i had enough understanding to begin trying it | 22:00 |
| ailo | ScottL: I think for myself, I will be moving on to Debian, now that I was able to compile a lowlatency kernel for myself. For Ubuntu, I think I would rather it was much more mainstream than now. Maybe it should disregard advanced Linux users all together, and only focus on being stupid simple? | 22:04 |
| ailo | ScottL: Isn't UbuntuStudio supposed to be a Ubuntu multimedia version? | 22:05 |
| ScottL | for "ubuntu" or "ubuntu studio" be more mainstream and disregard advanced users? | 22:05 |
| ScottL | ubuntustudio = multimedia version? good question, i fear that no one has adequately defined ubuntu studio to say for sure what it's purpose or audience is | 22:06 |
| ailo | ScottL: For UbuntuStudio. Advanced Linux multimedia users will already know what is out there. New users will want to get working right away | 22:06 |
| ScottL | although others would argue my statement | 22:06 |
| paultag | ScottL: I'll get the job done, and I'll get it done on time | 22:06 |
| paultag | ScottL: I have a plan to keep it simple and get it ready for natty | 22:06 |
| ScottL | ailo, i agree, new users are probably the way to go forward | 22:06 |
| ScottL | paultag, i have faith in you! | 22:07 |
| paultag | ScottL: after that, it will need some cleanup, which I'm sure ailo can help me with :) | 22:07 |
| paultag | ScottL: Rock on :) | 22:07 |
| ScottL | paultag, would a sketch of what the UI might look like be helpful? with nice, descriptive comments on what should happen when a button is pushed? | 22:07 |
| ScottL | i can do that | 22:07 |
| paultag | ScottL: yeah, it really would :) | 22:08 |
| ScottL | paultag, this would be functional but it might not be THE UI that others might proffer or suggest or demand | 22:12 |
| paultag | ScottL: We're just trying to get anything in place for natty, so if it works, it ships! | 22:12 |
| ScottL | hah, found an article on facebook when akgraner interviewed me http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=417430951545 | 22:13 |
| ScottL | weird | 22:13 |
| paultag | wooo :) | 22:13 |
| ScottL | paultag, i will get this to you before the end of this weekend | 22:13 |
| paultag | ScottL: for sure. I'll try to get stuff landed in place before that's done so we can push before the 28th deadline | 22:13 |
| ailo | paultag: So 28th is the final day? | 22:15 |
| paultag | ailo: that's my deadline, and I don't miss deadlines :) | 22:15 |
| paultag | ailo[Caafter that it starts to gsuckl to get stuff uploaded | 22:15 |
| paultag | goddamn this fucking lag | 22:16 |
| paultag | I type and 20 seconds later it sends. I can't even see what I'm typing. L | 22:16 |
| paultag | I'm going to bump off for a few, email'll be on | 22:16 |
| paultag | one love | 22:16 |
| ailo | paultag: What's you plan? Are you still pursuing a plugin based app? | 22:16 |
| paultag | ailo: once it's ready for natty | 22:16 |
| paultag | ailo: that's longerm. working is shortterm | 22:16 |
| ailo | paultag: Why not just focus on 3 items then, 1: audio group, 2: -lowlatency 3: restricted extras? | 22:17 |
| ScottL | that's our MO at work on new designs too | 22:17 |
| ScottL | get it working, no matter how ugly | 22:17 |
| ScottL | then next time refine it | 22:17 |
| paultag | 1 :) | 22:17 |
| paultag | +1 * | 22:17 |
| paultag | OK, I need to bump off, my ssh connection is really lagging out | 22:18 |
| paultag | BRB. One love ya'll | 22:18 |
| ScottL | hugs for paultag | 22:18 |
| persia | abogani, You say "The -lowlatency kernel is updated and synced with -generic _but_ I doubt that it will be included into official repo.": is that because of ailo's test results, or something else? | 22:22 |
| ailo | persia: Test results seem to have differed a lot lately. -lowlatency is still in demand | 22:23 |
| ailo | (for me at least :) ) | 22:23 |
| persia | ailo, Perhaps, but I'm not going to upload it unless abogani wants that, because I can't maintain it. | 22:24 |
| ailo | persia: Getting late here, so perhaps abogani will be able to discuss that tomorrow. I will ask him if I see him. | 22:27 |
| persia | If you like. I suspect he'll see backscroll, and get back to me in ~9 hours in the worst case :) | 22:28 |
| ailo | ScottL: How about reducing Ubuntustudio to a single tasksel, and inject the -controls with stereoids later on? | 22:29 |
| ScottL | ailo, that is a possibility but obviously we need to consider what our user want and/or need | 22:45 |
| ScottL | heh, that should have been users, with an 's', plural :P | 22:46 |
| ailo | ScottL: Can't really foresee what the user needs, I think. However, there's still the distinction between Video, Graphics and Audio. My experience with the mainstream user is that he/she usually sticks to one program. One graphic editor, one Video editor, and one sequencer a la Cubase/Pro Tools/Logic | 22:56 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: I plan to make some time to do some other community related stuff in the next week or so, so I'll look then. | 22:59 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, exciting news! thank you :) | 23:18 |
| ScottL | ailo, well, we probably should address which audience we are addressing as well :P | 23:18 |
| ScottL | newbies are going to need a lot of hand holding, while experienced users will already know which applications they want | 23:18 |
| ScottL | perhaps there is a union between the two, perhaps not :/ | 23:19 |
| ScottL | i wish there was a simple way that users could create their own special recipe to install their own apps during each new install | 23:19 |
| ailo | ScottL: Adding software is no problem for the advanced user. Advanced users will often have specific demands, and will tune their system accordingly. New users don't need much to get going. | 23:19 |
| ailo | ScottL: And, considering Ubuntu is the most mainstream distro out there (I think), it seems logical that UbuntuStudio should be that among multimedia distros | 23:20 |
| ScottL | ailo, so this supports your argument for a basic install first and foremost | 23:21 |
| ScottL | this could be a common base for both installs, i.e. experience users and new users | 23:21 |
| ailo | ScottL: I think it would be great if UbuntuStudio was more or less integrated into Ubuntu as a slight pimp up, without sacrificing performance. Doesn't seem logical for US to be all too specific, other than mainstream specific, in that case | 23:23 |
| ailo | All the packages are out there. And there's PPA's | 23:23 |
| ailo | ScottL: To tie things together, I feel what is missing is Documentation | 23:25 |
| persia | If there's something sufficiently exciting in a PPA that it ought be recommended, let's get it into the repos, rather than recommending the PPAs. | 23:25 |
| ailo | ( Not recommending PPA's, just making the point, that if the user wants to add something to Ubuntu, something unusual, there is always PPA's. ) | 23:26 |
| persia | Indeed. | 23:29 |
| ScottL | like for linuxsampler ;) | 23:32 |
| ailo | ScottL: I like your idea of work flows, but I still think those should be in the form of documentation and Videos. Would be best to focus on a few programs. | 23:32 |
| ScottL | there is incredible potential to make things wonderful for ubuntu studio, i truly believe that | 23:32 |
| ScottL | and i think that it is also possible to maximize it's potential while keeping the maintenance acceptable and sustainable | 23:33 |
| ScottL | i've started thinking about establishing things so that other people could continue the work | 23:33 |
| ScottL | this isn't to imply there's an immediate threat of my leaving, mind you | 23:33 |
| ScottL | but i think it would irresponsible of me to think otherwise though | 23:34 |
| ScottL | 23:36 | |
| ScottL | i think it would be cool if you could open ubuntustudio-controls and push the button that says "Save your Installed applications" | 23:37 |
| ScottL | you put in your usb stick, push the button, and it saves a list of all the currently install A/V/G applications | 23:37 |
| ScottL | then when you have to reinstall ubuntu studio you insert your USB, start ubuntustudio-controls, and push the button that says "install my saved applications" | 23:38 |
| ScottL | which then does as advertised | 23:38 |
| ScottL | thoughts? | 23:38 |
| ailo | ScottL: A form of configuration backup? | 23:40 |
| ScottL | ailo, kinda, yeah, but think of it as a transport to install your setup on a different machine or new installation | 23:43 |
| ScottL | couple this with starting with a simplified base install | 23:43 |
| ScottL | the new users can select pre-packaged or "canned" setups to install ("record my band" "make techno music" "edit video footage", etc) | 23:44 |
| ScottL | experienced users can get their setup in minutes with little fuss with the usb dump | 23:44 |
| ScottL | again, they're just saving a list of the audio/visual/graphic applications they ahve installed | 23:45 |
| ScottL | which then is used to re-install them on a new machine/installation | 23:45 |
| ailo | ScottL: "canned" setups is something that you'll see a lot in Mac, with Logic and Garageband | 23:45 |
| ScottL | but that is probably what new users will need | 23:45 |
| ScottL | i know i would have liked that when i first started | 23:46 |
| ScottL | someone to do the "thinking" for you so you can learn how to use it all | 23:46 |
| ailo | ScottL: Premixed sessions, you just add vocals and make some beats to a rap song. That type of thing | 23:46 |
| ScottL | ailo, not really, i mean for package selections | 23:46 |
| ScottL | if a new user starts with a simplified base installation then that user probably needs help understanding which applications that need to be installed | 23:47 |
| ScottL | even our tasksel during the alternate installation leaves something to be desired in terms of explanation | 23:47 |
| ScottL | and is grossly expansive | 23:48 |
| ScottL | but if a new user doesn't understand ubuntu but wants to try ubuntu studio then think if he installs it... | 23:48 |
| ScottL | and -controls pops up on first log in and asks if he wants to install some applications | 23:48 |
| ScottL | with very simplified and devoted "tasks" | 23:49 |
| ScottL | not just "install some audio applications" and then overload the menu with them | 23:49 |
| ScottL | and the user doesn't have any idea what to use or if they even all need to be used just to record his/her guitar | 23:49 |
| ScottL | again, just freethinking and welcome comments, criticism | 23:49 |
| ailo | ScottL: Linux, I suppose lends itself perfectly for adding abstractions outside of applications. | 23:50 |
| ScottL | it may have been my nature (i need to have an idea of what to expect before i do something) but i found linux and ubuntu absolutely frustrating when i started | 23:51 |
| ScottL | i just wanted someone to tell HOW i should do something, but all i got was MANY ways to do it | 23:51 |
| ScottL | when you're new to linux, or PC based DAWs or even recording music...it's just too much | 23:52 |
| ScottL | just tell me how to accomplish what i want to do...do the "thinking" for me | 23:52 |
| ScottL | once you get that under your belt and you have a more basic understanding of the fundementals, then you can branch out and learn other methods | 23:52 |
| ailo | ScottL: First of all you need applications that already can do that, I think. Garageband is a perfect example of that on Mac. | 23:53 |
| ailo | I think Qtractor is a nice simple sequencer for the layman | 23:53 |
| ailo | But for the hobbyist, I don't know | 23:54 |
| ailo | Ardour is great, but there | 23:54 |
| ailo | there's no midi | 23:54 |
| ailo | Yet | 23:54 |
| ailo | For an audio layman, what you need is a program that can load instruments, effects and where you can easily record vocals and maybe a guitar | 23:55 |
| ScottL | but i'm not advocating a single setup for everything, there could be many options in -controls that could be assessed at any time, selected, and installed | 23:56 |
| ScottL | so when you first start, you want to record your guitar...you pick that and install gtick, jack, audacity and learn to use those | 23:56 |
| ScottL | later when you move on and you want to record your whole band, you open -controls again, select "record my band" and ardour installs | 23:57 |
| ScottL | jackd was already installed | 23:57 |
| ailo | For the layman, it would be best if jack was in the background | 23:57 |
| ScottL | lol, don't get bogged down in the details, just flow with the ideas ;) | 23:57 |
| ScottL | conceptually | 23:58 |
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