[00:00] <erkan^> lip reading is very diffiuclt for me and i have very energy need
[00:00] <JanC> erkan^: right, learning lip-reading might help you a lot (even if it's not perfect)
[00:00] <JanC> he also had a friend helping him
[00:01] <JanC> having a friend to help is difficult to plan of course...  :-/
[00:01] <erkan^> I know deaf and deafblind people that they can lip reading, but it is difficult for me
[00:01] <erkan^> my prefering is sign language and tactile signing language
[00:02] <JanC> erkan^: that makes things more difficult to go t oa "normal" school
[00:02] <maco> erkan^: lip reading is very difficult for everyone
[00:02] <erkan^> yep
[00:03] <maco> erkan^: do you know both nederlands & american sign languages? if so, gallaudet takes many international students
[00:04] <erkan^> but it is problem for deaf too, exampe they can not understand ---> feeling , emoticon.. 9 years age i have very nightmarre... i was very angry on womam. but she can not sign language and i can not speak good when i am angry or i don' t like... very hurt heart pffff
[00:04] <JanC> well, lip-reading combined with partial hearing is useful, but if you hear nothing it involves a lot of heuristics & guessing probably?
[00:05] <erkan^> I know Dutch Sign Langue, because that is my mottherlanguage. and ASL I know little, maco
[00:06] <erkan^> ,,good communcation is very important'' , don' t ccare or you can lip-reading etc... 
[00:06] <erkan^> that is right, JanC 
[00:07] <maco> JanC: yes.... "ok so that was either a g or k, followed by o, then..."
[00:08] <erkan^> maco, i have heard for friend for me that in America is very advanced with ASL
[00:08] <maco> i'm sorry, i didn't understand that
[00:09] <JanC> maco: right (I was in a talk that lacked microphone/amplifier during FOSDEM last weekend, so I was sort of trying to lip-read to "fill the blanks")
[00:09] <erkan^> jan, help me please: ik bedoel... een vriend van me vertelde me dat in Amerika is heel erg vooruitstrevende met de Amerikaanse Sign Language, JanC 
[00:09] <erkan^> vooruitstrevende = advance ?
[00:10] <JanC> maco: a friend of erkan^ told him that that the US is very progressive with ASL
[00:10] <erkan^> oh yes --> progressive
[00:11] <JanC> somehow I think that's limited to certain environments  ;)
[00:11] <erkan^> and tactile sign language in america is very progressive too
[00:11] <maco> yes i think so too
[00:11] <maco> most americans would not know what to do if they met a deaf person, other than look for a pen & paper
[00:11] <erkan^> maco?
[00:12] <JanC> maco: to be honest, neither do I
[00:12] <erkan^> In september 2011 I go perhaps visit in Seabeck or another city ... i don' t know precious
[00:12] <maco> it is somewhat more likely that i meet other hearing people who sign because i live only 20 minutes from Gallaudet, but most of the ones i meet can only finger-spell, not do whole words
[00:12] <erkan^> --> Deafblindness Organization" 
[00:12] <maco> (and even with being so close to Gallaudet, i don't know many)
[00:12] <JanC> I think looking for pen & paper is a better reaction than ignore people   ;)
[00:13] <erkan^> I often use pen & paper when i communication with heard people
[00:13] <JanC> erkan^: or IRC !  :P
[00:13] <erkan^> whahaha 
[00:13] <maco> i was surprised how many people at Ohio LinuxFest knew ASL, even though it was only like 5 hearing people
[00:13] <erkan^> IRC is for every :P
[00:13] <erkan^> sommige mensen weten niet dat ik ben doof :p
[00:16] <erkan^> did I say bad? :P
[00:16] <maco> *shrug* you said dutch
[00:17] <JanC> erkan^: I didn't know you were deaf until I mentioned maco's 'gally' project on an ubuntu-nl IRC channel and you told me
[00:18] <erkan^> wow
[00:18] <erkan^> OerHeks vroeg me of wilde ik gebarenwoorden in de film voor hem maken, herinner ik JanC 
[00:19] <erkan^> oesp sorry, maco
[00:19] <JanC> erkan^: yes, OerHeks wanted to learn sign language, and I mentioned maco's project, then you told me  ☺
[00:20] <erkan^> OerHeks asked me or I will make " sign language words"  in the movie for him, same way as your movie gally " , maco
[00:20] <maco> ah
[00:20] <JanC> for Dutch Signing Language
[00:20] <erkan^> yes
[00:20] <erkan^> DSL
[00:20] <maco> oh right i need to give you commit bits
[00:20] <JanC> :-)
[00:21] <erkan^> What do you mean, maco?
[00:21] <erkan^> " commit bits"  ? what is that :S 
[00:22] <JanC> erkan^: permissions to upload videos
[00:22] <erkan^> yes
[00:22] <erkan^> I think that i go make movie in mart 2011 
[00:23] <erkan^> than I will tell to JanC and maco when i am clear with a moive 
[00:24] <maco> ok added
[00:25] <erkan^> I think that I save videos in youtube or in www.online.nl 
[00:25] <erkan^> save = upload i mean
[00:26] <erkan^> which URL have you uploaded movies , maco ?
[00:26] <maco> they're in bzr
[00:27] <maco> but nederlands bzr is empty right now
[00:27] <maco> someone said his wife was going to help, but then nothing :(
[00:27] <erkan^> I see email 
[00:27] <maco> you can copy the ASL one and then change the videos and the descriptions
[00:27] <maco> to get started
[00:29] <erkan^> ok
[00:30] <JanC> maco: I saw recently somebody is working on an open source SignWriting font (including Unicode codepoints etc.)
[00:30] <JanC> maybe that's useful for gally too...
[00:30] <maco> is signwriting the same everywhere?
[00:30] <maco> i mean, the correspondence to signs, not the meaning of the symbols
[00:30] <erkan^> I hope really that next week or so is it internet connect normal, than i can see very with bzr etc. because i use a wifi for another neightbours , this wifi is very bad
[00:31] <JanC> SignWriting is somewhat like IPA for spoken languages
[00:31] <maco> ok
[00:31] <maco> does it actually get used in europe?
[00:31] <maco> here it's a "some academics know it but the common deaf person doesn't" thing
[00:31] <JanC> in some places
[00:31] <JanC> not sure how widespread it is though...
[00:32] <JanC> it looks like something that could be useful for those who understand though
[00:33] <maco> as i have no understanding of it, i dont think its something i'd implement, but if someone wanted to send a patch to make it display the sign-writing for a given sign....sure
[00:34] <JanC> it "describes" signing, so you can explain gestures to people without needing a video
[00:34] <JanC> that's what I find interesting  ;)
[00:39] <erkan^> i seee --> Nederlands Gebaar Taal (Dutch Sign Language) 
[00:39] <erkan^> but good spell is Nederlandse Gebarentaal 
[00:42] <JanC> I think SignWriting could be a really helpful tool for learning sign languages (especially when learning more than one)
[00:43] <JanC> and for creating the sign language equivalent of "dictionaries"
[00:45] <JanC> the alternative is using videos, but that's a lot of work...
[00:47] <maco> erkan^: ok, i'll fix that
[00:47] <erkan^> (-:
[00:48] <erkan^> I want help you
[00:48] <maco> erkan^: fixed!
[00:50] <erkan^> Cool
[00:50] <erkan^> very nice (-:
[00:54]  * JanC loves how open source collaboration
[00:56] <JanC> beats filling out official forms every day  ;)
[00:57] <hajour> wow that was very lot to read back
[00:58] <hajour> but now i know where my idea was good fur
[00:58] <hajour> remember JanC  my idea from vibration alphabet
[00:59] <hajour> its no need to program really we know now
[00:59] <hajour> but we go look to make a equipment what can be used on a speechprogram
[01:00] <hajour> so sound will go turned to vibrations
[01:00] <hajour> erkan^,  JanC  maco ^
[01:00] <hajour> but i would like some help i have a few people.
[01:01] <hajour> but maco you have already knowledge about deaf .erkan you would be the best to test it
[01:01] <hajour> also codo who is deaf
[01:02] <erkan^> effe lezen
[01:02] <erkan^> *read
[01:03] <hajour> o and AlanBell  i mend by vid. to put on the pages by lesson material like to ad spoken books but then also with movie
[01:03] <erkan^> where is codo from, hajour ?
[01:03] <hajour> it is already used on school also but then from windows mostly
[01:04] <hajour> i don't know from which country erkan^  i not have asked that
[01:04] <hajour> but he is in the speechcontrol team
[01:04] <erkan^> Speech Program I want learn too, example commando to dog. In the further I take a guide dog, i need that.. hajour :S
[01:05] <erkan^> example " left" , " right" , over , vooraan, etc... als ik spreek met de microfoon en de spreekprogramma controleert of ik spreek goede woord uit, snap je het, hajour ?
[01:05] <hajour> speechcontrol is a speech reading program erkan^  with in futher voice command.like pc search file.pc says file found
[01:06] <erkan^> <when I speak with the microfon and the Speech Program control or I speak good word (commando), ddo you understnad hajour?>
[01:06] <erkan^> ok
[01:06] <hajour> not to fast plz :)
[01:06] <hajour> i cant read fast
[01:07] <erkan^> I was translate this Dutch to English, that another people can read in English language, hajour 
[01:07] <hajour> its something we not have in a program erkan.but thank you for note it 
[01:07] <hajour> i will ask to the possibility s 
[01:08] <erkan^> ok
[01:08] <erkan^> i search a internet
[01:08] <erkan^> *an
[01:08] <hajour> i know erkan^  but it don't matter if you write dutch or english to me
[01:09] <hajour> i have dyslectic and apraxia 
[01:09] <erkan^> lang geleden heb ik met de spreekprogramma gedaan bij de logopedielokaal. ik weet het niet hoe heet die.. het is heel erg duur: ongeveer 500 euro :S
[01:10] <hajour> anyway i am so used on english now i can read and write better in english then i can in dutch
[01:10] <erkan^> Ja, ik zal rekening met je houden, hajour
[01:10] <erkan^> ok
[01:10] <hajour> thank you erkan^ 
[01:10] <erkan^> (-:
[01:11] <hajour> dyslectic program i need cost 1295 euro
[01:11] <hajour> but i manage here i get a lot of help here erkan^ 
[01:12] <erkan^> very expensive
[01:12] <erkan^> very people with handicap can not pay a expensive software, hajour
[01:13] <hajour> from AlanBell  and charlie-tca  and Pendulum  , JackyAlcine   JanC  mhall119  MichealH  and many more .yes i pinged you i wanted to say very much thank to you all
[01:13] <hajour> i know erkan^ 
[01:13] <hajour> thats why we are busy to make speechcontrol
[01:14] <hajour> also maco have helped me erkan^ 
[01:14] <erkan^> I understand it now
[01:14] <hajour> i only can do this because of the help from many people maco 
[01:15] <hajour> its the ubuntu way
[01:15] <hajour> erkan^,  i mean
[01:16] <erkan^> hajour: http://www.intaal.nl/
[01:17] <erkan^> http://www.intaal.nl/site/intaal_shopprod.php?artcode=400001 --> i have need this program
[01:18] <hajour> whats that sound o my its my hart. i am still try to become of scare of the prize i saw
[01:20] <erkan^> I am sorry )-:
[01:20] <hajour> np 
[01:20] <hajour> tjeez what is that terrible expensive
[01:20] <UndiFineD> that is very helpful erkan^ 
[01:21] <hajour> yes UndiFineD  was already talking to me
[01:21] <hajour> UndiFineD,  is my boyfriend in rl erkan^  we are a couple
[01:21] <hajour> and yes this is very help full  information erkan^ 
[01:22] <hajour> we go dive in it by way of speaking erkan
[01:22] <hajour> hai jasono :)
[01:22] <JanC> the most disturbing part about text-to-speech programs is that they cost 10× more for a11y than for phone menus...
[01:22] <erkan^> Example: Games Nintendo ds cost 24 euro per stuk. 1 millon people in the world can buy that, than a company can take very money. but special communications-programs from handicap are very expensive, becuase veryh little handicap (example 100) buy a speciall software
[01:23] <jasono> Hi hajour :)
[01:23] <erkan^> which helpful, UndiFineD ?
[01:23] <hajour> well its absurd exspensive
[01:23] <hajour> http://www.intaal.nl/site/intaal_shopprod.php?artcode=400001    <<< jasono look at the prize
[01:23] <JanC> hajour: it's not absurd, it's exploitation IMO
[01:23] <hajour> this is learn full for you
[01:24] <erkan^> sorry ik dacht dat helpfull betekent vollede hlep. nu snap ik, dat betekent " nuttig" ... ja inderdaad UndiFineD (-:
[01:24] <jasono> hajour Are you buying that?
[01:24] <hajour> its being rich on needfull people to take there last money off
[01:24] <jasono> oh
[01:24] <hajour> no we cant jasono 
[01:25] <hajour> erkan^,  needs it
[01:25] <UndiFineD> but we have available ubuntu parts :D
[01:25] <erkan^> ok
[01:25] <hajour> but he cant buy it
[01:25] <hajour> jasono, ^
[01:25] <hajour> that's why we working on speechcontrol and sub parts jasono 
[01:26] <jasono> Oh, it's windows.
[01:26] <hajour> also the bot where you working on jasono
[01:26] <hajour> yes
[01:26] <hajour> we need ubuntu program /programs 
[01:27] <erkan^> " Ik heb iemand ook nodig dat iemand gaat stem in de bestandje opslaan: bijv. aaa, bbb, vooraan, links, enzovoort... dan stuurt naar me.. en ik kan die via het speciale programma openen en ga kunnen oefenen
[01:27] <hajour> what is usable for people with issues
[01:27] <erkan^> snap je het, hajour  ?
[01:27] <hajour> sec.
[01:28] <hajour> UndiFineD,  will explain so but he is searching right now to apps for you erkan^ 
[01:28] <UndiFineD> erkan^: yes there are plans for language training
[01:28] <UndiFineD> I heard JackyAlcine was already thinking of this
[01:28] <erkan^> ok
[01:29] <UndiFineD> "praat" is capable of showing spectograms
[01:30] <UndiFineD> and so are sndfile-tools
[01:33] <erkan^> een spreekbestandje ?
[01:34] <hajour> UndiFineD,  is looking for to find more info erkan^ 
[01:38] <UndiFineD> right now I was looking at jaaa, some sort in of input analyser
[01:41] <erkan^> http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio ?
[01:42] <UndiFineD> not available website
[01:42] <erkan^> sorry
[01:42] <erkan^> http://apps.linuxaudio.org/apps/all/jaaa
[01:45] <erkan^> i go sleep now, latersss UndiFineD JanC maco jasono hajour (-:
[01:45] <erkan^> etc...
[01:45] <JanC> slaapwel erkan^ 
[01:45] <UndiFineD> trusten
[01:45] <hajour> o to late
[14:55] <charlie-tca> For those wanting to help: We need as many shortcuts documented as possible. We have a wiki page with a few of them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[14:55] <charlie-tca> There are many more in Ubuntu, Compiz (ccsm) and Unity that need to be documented.
[14:57] <charlie-tca> If you are just learning to use Ubuntu, having everyone know that Ctrl+Alt+t is a known shortcut to the terminal is worthless if you can't find it somewhere
[15:14] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: do we have any records of any a11y bugs against launchpad?
[15:14] <charlie-tca> against launchpad itself, I have not seen any yet
[15:15] <Pendulum> *nods*
[15:15] <charlie-tca> It might be I haven't them yet, too
[15:15] <Pendulum> was just talking to one of the launchpad guys and he was interested in making sure launchpad is as accessible as possible
[15:16] <charlie-tca> I will keep looking and let you know if I find any, then.
[15:16] <Pendulum> thanks :)
[16:27] <duanedesign> Pendulum: hello
[17:46] <UndiFineD> duanedesign: how is your accessible cli coming along ?
[17:46] <UndiFineD> ;)
[17:48] <duanedesign> UndiFineD: i am working on a new release right now
[17:48] <duanedesign> hopefully be out early next week
[17:48] <UndiFineD> I really love it
[17:48] <duanedesign> lots more translations. The search is no longer case-sensitive.
[17:49] <UndiFineD> and history size ?
[17:49] <duanedesign> ohhhh, glad you mentioned that
[17:50] <duanedesign> yes. I was unable to get a few other things on the preferences panel, but that does work
[17:50] <duanedesign> i will remove the others for now and just have the history size
[17:50] <UndiFineD> well I like that progress you are making
[17:50] <duanedesign> i am so glad you mentioned that:P
[17:50]  * duanedesign makes a note not to forget again
[17:50] <UndiFineD> it works better for me than terminator
[17:51] <duanedesign> UndiFineD: i have a lot of commands that i do not use enough to be easy to find, if at all, in the history
[17:52] <UndiFineD> oh I meant scrollback history actually
[17:52] <duanedesign> so I use it a lot
[17:52] <duanedesign> :)
[17:52] <UndiFineD> with 340 processes ps auxf, the top disappears
[17:53] <UndiFineD> nothing that cant be solved with less
[18:05] <charlie-tca> um, that seems wrong... I want more. You can have it with less ;-)
[18:06] <JackyAlcine> :D
[18:07] <charlie-tca> For those wanting to help: We need as many shortcuts documented as possible. We have a wiki page with a few of them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[18:07] <charlie-tca> There are many more in Ubuntu, Compiz (ccsm) and Unity that need to be documented.
[18:08] <charlie-tca> If you are just learning to use Ubuntu, having everyone know that Ctrl+Alt+t is a known shortcut to the terminal is worthless if you can't find it somewhere
[18:08] <JackyAlcine> So true.
[18:09] <JackyAlcine> I actually changed it to meta+T.
[18:10] <charlie-tca> Having all the shortcuts in one place would help a lot, since they are either not listed or hard to find.
[19:02] <duanedesign> charlie-tca: cool will see if i can add some
[19:03] <charlie-tca> thank you
[19:03] <duanedesign> ctrl + r in the terminal is one I just learned and wis I had known awhile ago
[19:03] <duanedesign> wish*
[19:50] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you remember who it was that was asking about capslock and Orca recently?
[19:59] <AlanBell> sorry, no I don't recall that
[20:00] <AlanBell> gksudo yes, capslock, no
[20:03] <maco> i can scroll back
 hello again, anyne know how to fix an orca bug where the orca key in laptop mode will also toggle caps on and off when you press but otherwise works fine? I dont have this problem in 10.10 but in the current devel release 11.04 i just installed.
[20:04] <Pendulum> TheMuso: maco just found it and yes it was in Natty
[20:05] <TheMuso> Right, I was surprised to hear that it was in Maverick, as I didn't have a problem. Ok, thats good to know, I may trawl git for a fix.
[20:07] <TheMuso> ...but it is natty, and there will be a new orca tarball out in a matter of a couple of weeks at most.
[20:38] <charlie-tca> billg?
[20:39] <maco> he's not here right now
[20:39] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: Billg, I believe
[20:39] <maco> i copied and pasted from yesterday
[20:39]  * charlie-tca slaps head for not reading everything before muttering
[23:31] <hajour> Pendulum, not to be annoying but i was wondering or jono was going his site also more accessible
[23:32] <hajour> charlie-tca, ^ mhall119 ^
[23:33] <charlie-tca> I have no idea. My concern is making sure the accessibility wiki gets some updates and that natty is usable
[23:34] <hajour> well i think that the persons who are here have to give a good example for others
[23:34] <hajour> if we don't do it why should others then do it
[23:35] <charlie-tca> I agree, but I still can't answer you question
[23:35] <hajour> well i hoped jono was here honest say
[23:35] <hajour> to ask him myself
[23:36] <hajour> i just was thinking about it
[23:36] <hajour> i go look more to the speechcontrol wiki to 
[23:36] <hajour> i go do now