[00:30] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ping
[00:34] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i went through several iterations of resize-grip designs today and this is what i came up with: http://imagebin.org/137054
[00:53] <charlie-tca> ochosi: they look fine to me. They are here to stay, so we might as well let everyone get used to them
[00:54] <ochosi> i pushed it to greybird's mercurial repo now for easier testing
[00:54] <ochosi> feel free to grab/test it from here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
[00:54] <ochosi> i think it's a lot more visible than the old one
[00:55] <ochosi> charlie-tca: here's a link of a screenshot with the old grip: http://wiki.knome.fi/_media/shimmer:resize_murrine.png
[00:55] <charlie-tca> they didn't show at all in greybird here
[00:55] <ochosi> yeah, i know..
[00:55] <ochosi> i also made the handle with which you can drag the line between the side-pane and the files more visible
[00:55] <charlie-tca> Okay, so you want me to grab the new theme again?
[00:55] <ochosi> (three lines)
[00:56] <ochosi> yeah, feel free to test it and let me know what you think
[00:56] <charlie-tca> okeydokey
[00:56] <ochosi> it's just a proposal
[00:56] <ochosi> there are other options as well
[00:56] <ochosi> but it's definitely the best i could come up with tonight :)
[00:56] <ochosi> (and it's xubuntu-unique)
[00:57] <charlie-tca> uh-oh. is that a good thing?
[00:57] <ochosi> k, gotta go to bed now, feel free to ping me about the resize-grip anytime, i'll read the backlog
[00:57] <charlie-tca> Well actually, these grips are going to be a gtk3 thing, right?
[00:58] <ochosi> yes, but the style is hand-painted now by me
[00:59] <ochosi> i can also try and improve the default murrine style (the one you can't see currently) and we can make a comparison
[00:59] <ochosi> by the way, here's a comparison i did tonight on resize-grips in different themes/engines: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:get_a_grip
[00:59] <charlie-tca> Is it worth the time and effor?
[01:00] <ochosi> good question, i guess the main question is whether you (and everyone else) is happy with how the grip looks now
[01:01] <charlie-tca> I am happy with them. We just have to watch for the ones that obscure the scroll arrow, I think
[01:01] <ochosi> yeah, i think we might have to report a bug on firefox then
[01:01] <ochosi> with only the vertical scrollbar the lower arrow of the scrollbar is hidden
[01:02] <ochosi> with the horizontal scrollbar visible as well, it works
[01:02] <charlie-tca> ouch
[01:02] <ochosi> weird bug imo
[01:02] <charlie-tca> I better start running in windows more, instead of maximized
[01:02] <ochosi> oh, i didn't realize: the grip disappears when windows are maximized
[01:03] <ochosi> that's a nice feature
[01:03] <ochosi> ok, anyways, now i really gotta hit the bed
[01:03] <charlie-tca> yeah, you only see them in windows
[01:03] <ochosi> see you tomorrow, good night!
[01:03] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I downloaded it
[01:03] <ochosi> nice
[18:33] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:01] <charlie-tca> Let's have a meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting
[19:01] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi, cody-somerville, micahg, pleia2, TheSheep, j1mc 
[19:02] <pleia2> oh, I have an update this time!
[19:02] <pleia2> charlie-tca: ping me when you get to website? I'm at work + jono has me in another meeting too
[19:02] <charlie-tca> pleia2: happy to do that
[19:09]  * cody-somerville wonders why people are using wiki.knome.fi instead of the official Xubuntu wiki.
[19:09] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[19:16] <ochosi> cody-somerville: i discussed this with charlie-tca a few days ago, wiki.knome.fi is for development/wip stuff, xubuntu wiki is for stuff that's more official
[19:16] <mr_pouit> well, one thing nice with knome's wiki is the css, and the speed
[19:16] <mr_pouit> wiki.ubuntu.com sucks at both ;-)
[19:17] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Yea. I hear you. :(
[19:17] <ochosi> yep, that's also true :)
[19:17] <charlie-tca> but wiki.ubuntu.com is our official wiki
[19:17]  * cody-somerville nods.
[19:19] <cody-somerville> ochosi, wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu is the team wiki and is 'official' in that sense but its perfectly fine and intended for there to be WIP/development stuff on wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/.
[19:20] <cody-somerville> People can put WIP stuff anywhere they want but any development related stuff should definitely be on our official team wiki since thats where people will expect it.
[19:20] <cody-somerville> If an alternative moinmoin wiki theme can be provided, I could probably persuade IS to setup wiki.xubuntu.org with it.
[19:21] <ochosi> cody-somerville: i don't mind putting stuff there (apart from the concerns mr_pouit already raised), i discussed that with charlie-tca a few days ago
[19:21] <charlie-tca> so, the only one to move is the publicity stuff for now, right, ochosi ?
[19:22] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, at least that's we agreed on last time we spoke about it
[19:22] <ochosi> charlie-tca: but it's not that i mind adding stuff like greybird's open issues list to the xubuntu wiki
[19:22] <charlie-tca> yeah, we got that already in artwork, right?
[19:23] <ochosi> yeah, at least partly mirrored
[19:23] <cody-somerville> re:knome's comments, its important to note that the shimmer project isn't the only ones who are going to be working on the marketing stuff and we don't want people to have to sign up with some random wiki to be able to contribute IMHO.
[19:23] <cody-somerville> As that raises the barrier to contribution and we have a hard time with turnover already, lol
[19:23] <charlie-tca> noted, but we need more than just ideas on website redesign, too
[20:40] <ochosi> hm, so wallpapers...
[20:40] <mark76> The one with the dolphins looks like it should be in the kubuntu wallpapers folder
[20:41] <charlie-tca> specs are here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[20:41] <ochosi> tbh i don't like the submissions up to now much...
[20:41] <ochosi> they are all very blue and grey
[20:41] <mark76> The dragonfly one makes me think of BSD
[20:41] <charlie-tca> If we pick one or two, we could have the artist change colors to see what it looks liek
[20:42] <mark76> Oh sorry, it's a damselfly
[20:43] <charlie-tca> or I can try again to get some different colors from the artwork community
[20:43] <mark76> What goes with grey?
[20:43] <Sysi-> anything?
[20:43] <charlie-tca> what is this grey thing?
[20:43] <ochosi> this pic is too cheesy, but i like the color-palette: http://wiki.knome.fi/_media/xubuntu:heaven_on_earth-1920x1200.jpg
[20:43] <mark76> Greybird
[20:44] <charlie-tca> with the grey in greybird, anything will look good
[20:44] <ochosi> rather vivid, lively green and blue
[20:44] <ochosi> charlie-tca: +1
[20:44] <ochosi> charlie-tca: that's actually something i really like about greybird :)
[20:45]  * charlie-tca has tried different colors, too
[20:45] <charlie-tca> blue, red, yellow, green, white, they all look great with greybird
[20:49] <ochosi> brb
[20:50] <mark76> Cheetah. Too close to a certain other OS for comfort
[20:50] <mark76> Swallow. That's basically what the lubuntu logo is supposed to be
[20:50] <charlie-tca> windows uses a cheetah?
[20:50] <mark76> Not that OS
[20:51] <mark76> :p
[20:51] <Sysi-> if greybird panel was any ligter, blue wallpaper made us look like kde
[20:52] <charlie-tca> did kde change now? last time I looked, it only had a bottom panel
[20:52] <mark76> Still does
[20:53] <charlie-tca> and that had a weird layout. I couldn't find the shutdown anywhere, and finally killed the box at the power switch
[20:53] <mark76> The shutdown is in the menu
[20:53] <Sysi-> i hate yellow, ubuntu has purple, light green could work
[20:53] <charlie-tca> mint
[20:54] <mark76> Heh
[20:54] <Sysi-> isn't that leaf-green?
[20:54] <charlie-tca> green is green
[20:54] <Sysi-> red is ubuntu satanic or RHEL
[20:55] <Sysi-> multicolor?
[20:55] <mark76> Orange? :D
[20:56] <beardygnome> blue?
[20:56] <ochosi> i'd say at least more than one color
[20:56] <charlie-tca> something like http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/
[20:56] <charlie-tca> or the balloons with some brighter yellows and oranges behind them?
[20:57] <Sysi-> i'd go with lack or white as background
[20:57] <Sysi-> white would be a bit different
[20:57] <beardygnome> very bright though
[20:57] <beardygnome> might give people eye-ache
[20:57] <charlie-tca> yup
[20:57] <mark76> What about off-white?
[20:58] <mark76> But not grey
[20:58] <charlie-tca> both all black and all white are hard on the eyes
[20:58] <charlie-tca> an off-white can work very well
[20:58] <Sysi-> depend on color on them too
[20:58] <Sysi-> grey would work well also
[20:58] <mark76> John Major
[20:59] <Sysi-> sleepytiems, final exams starting tomorrow ->
[20:59] <mark76> Do you really want to be the John Major of the buntus?
[20:59] <ochosi> Sysi-: good luck!
[20:59] <charlie-tca> I have no idea what that is
[20:59] <mark76> He wsa PM of the UK after Thatcher and before Blair
[20:59] <ochosi> me neither, enlighten us mark76 
[20:59] <beardygnome> John Major was a UK Prime MInster
[20:59] <ochosi> ah right
[20:59] <mark76> Commonly known as the Grey man
[21:00] <beardygnome> he was famous for being very boring
[21:00] <ochosi> yeah, well i thought it was a meme i didn't know or something
[21:00] <beardygnome> and wore a lot of grey
[21:00] <charlie-tca> grey does not have to be boring. It can be very complimentary
[21:01] <mark76> Grey and blue?
[21:01] <mark76> Just like the old days
[21:02] <ochosi> why not grey and green?
[21:02] <beardygnome> i'm running greybird with a blue background right now and really like it
[21:02] <beardygnome> grey and green is mint
[21:02] <beardygnome> as in linix mint
[21:02] <ochosi> sry, i meant blue and green
[21:02] <mark76> My processors are overheating
[21:02] <beardygnome> *linux
[21:02] <mark76> Blue and green sounds good.
[21:02] <beardygnome> plus the grey of greybird?
[21:03] <ochosi> why not?
[21:03] <beardygnome> no reason, just wanted to be clear on what you were suggesting
[21:03] <ochosi> right :)
[21:03] <charlie-tca> I would like to see some mixed colors, instead of just blues. blue and green, blue and green and yellow, etc
[21:03] <ochosi> yeah, i agree with charlie-tca 
[21:04] <beardygnome> how about the balloons wallpaper, but with coloured balloons?
[21:04] <charlie-tca> I just seem to have a hard time expressing that to the artists
[21:05] <charlie-tca> sure, beardygnome. that would be neat!
[21:05] <mark76> Rebooting time
[21:07] <charlie-tca> I will try to tell the artwork mailing list again. Maybe use the balloons as a direct expample.
[21:07] <charlie-tca> hm, spelling is going downhill fast :-(
[21:07] <beardygnome> good idea
[21:07] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i remember that i submitted a wallpaper as example for different palettes quite a while ago
[21:08] <ochosi> charlie-tca: so it's not just you they're not listening to
[21:08] <charlie-tca> well, that is some consolation then. 
[21:08] <ochosi> :)
[21:08] <charlie-tca> baby waking up up here. I got to go take care of him :-)
[21:08] <beardygnome> right, i've got to go - good luck with the artists :-)
[21:09] <ochosi> i think someone even created a really nice palette from the wp i submitted, but still no luck
[21:09] <ochosi> charlie-tca: okeydokey, take good care of the baby then ;)
[21:25] <mark76> The weather panel applet doesn't work on 4.8
[21:25] <ochosi> mark76: it has been fixed upstream and i assume the fix will land in natty too (if it hasn't yet)
[21:25] <mark76> Cool
[21:26] <mark76> Panel transparency is still like it was in 4.6 in the version of 4.8 I have
[21:27] <ochosi> mark76: nope, 4.8 features alpha transparency
[21:27] <mark76> It still makes everything invisible if you set it to 0 opacity for me
[21:27] <ochosi> change the alpha value
[21:28] <ochosi> there is more than one transparency setting
[21:28] <mark76> I don't understand
[21:29] <mark76> Ah there's an alpha slider
[21:30] <mark76> Cool
[21:41] <mr_pouit> yeah, uploading the new weather-plugin is on my todo list
[21:41] <charlie-tca> here's hoping it works this time around
[21:42] <mr_pouit> btw I talked to one lubuntu developer, and he told me that it's very likely they won't switch to lightdm (it's still a bit too buggy)
[21:43] <ochosi> mkay
[21:43] <ochosi> to be honest i didn't continue testing it after it started bugging like hell
[21:43] <ochosi> this might be fun in a vm, but it's not so much if you have a real install
[21:44] <charlie-tca> I couldn't make it work in real hardware, just in the VBox install