[00:08] <cyphermox> jcastro, ping
[00:11] <bcurtiswx> DBO, still there?
[00:11] <DBO> yeah
[00:11] <bcurtiswx> DBO, http://paste.ubuntu.com/565619/
[00:11] <DBO> bcurtiswx, i need context
[00:12] <DBO> I dont understand what Im looking at
[00:12] <bcurtiswx> DBO, yes my paste reflexes are slow
[00:12] <bcurtiswx> DBO, http://paste.ubuntu.com/565620/
[00:12] <DBO> do you know what code where is causing that
[00:13] <DBO> or is this a general issue
[00:13] <DBO> bcurtiswx, if I had to guess
[00:14] <bcurtiswx> DBO, idk, actually. :-X
[00:14] <DBO> you are calling g_hash_table_size in several places
[00:14] <DBO> where you should be calling g_slist_length
[00:14]  * bcurtiswx stares at kenvandine
[00:14] <jcastro> cyphermox: yo
[00:15] <DBO> line 185 226 and 268 of your paste in particular bcurtiswx
[00:15] <bcurtiswx> DBO, will try.  Thx :)
[00:15] <DBO> jcastro, do you wanna play something fun on xbox tonight?
[00:15] <DBO> kenvandine is annoying... leaving without saying a word
[00:16] <jcastro> man, I need to raincheck, I've already committed to a bar night
[00:16] <DBO> may the fleas of a thousand camels infest his armpits
[00:16] <jcastro> tomorrow for sure though
[00:16] <DBO> awesome
[00:16] <jcastro> DBO: yeah, he's being lazy, it's only 2 hours after core hours!
[00:16] <DBO> at least friend me today so I can see what games you have
[00:16] <jcastro> he's weak. :)
[00:16] <cyphermox> jcastro, still looking for xorg debs?
[00:16] <DBO> jcastro, past two nights have been till 3AM for me
[00:16] <DBO> so yeah
[00:16] <jcastro> cyphermox: lamalex and a bunch of DX people need them
[00:16] <DBO> lazy
[00:17] <jcastro> cyphermox: I personally am ok, since I read -devel. :)
[00:17] <DBO> I dont read -devel, I just dont trust RAOF :P
[00:18] <cyphermox> jcastro, ah ok ;)
[00:18] <RAOF> jcastro: Just formulating a reply.
[00:18] <DBO> RAOF, you're here... so nice to see you buddy...
[00:18] <jcastro> RAOF: expect flamage at some point, neil wasn't very happy today
[00:18] <jcastro> RAOF: but I know how to use apt so I am delightfully working with a held back xorg
[00:19] <cyphermox> jcastro, aren't the old packages always on the archive?
[00:19] <RAOF> They're not in the archive; they *are* on launchpad.
[00:19] <DBO> i think they get pumped in the alpha stages
[00:19] <jcastro> I know they would be on lp somewhere
[00:19] <cyphermox> ah right
[00:19] <jcastro> I gave it a shot but it's not so simple
[00:19] <RAOF> He's welcome to flame, but there's a limited amount that we can actually do :)
[00:19] <jcastro> there's what I think "xorg" is
[00:19] <jcastro> and then there's the 2345983475938475 packages it really is
[00:20] <jcastro> and if you miss one .... death
[00:20] <jcastro> RAOF: I think the fundamental fix here is teams who aren't platform, DX, U1, design, etc. need to pay closer attention to -devel
[00:20] <jcastro> either that or platformers need to use -devel-announce or something
[00:21] <RAOF> Hm.  Did we not send an X warning to -devel-announce?  That's an oversight on our part.
[00:21] <jcastro> I don't recall, that was like 2 weeks ago
[00:21] <RAOF> Right.
[00:21] <jcastro> it's odd they only ran into this just now
[00:21] <RAOF> Have they only just upgraded?
[00:22] <jcastro> dunno
[00:22] <RAOF> Maybe we could do a session at UDS: Partial Upgrades, X, and You!
[00:22] <RAOF> Or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the apt.
[00:23] <jcastro> I did one at a rally once for non-platformers, but it was more general
[00:23] <jcastro> like "stop just dist-upgrading, read..."
[00:23] <jcastro> hey, if you use the update-manager and use the closed nvidia, they would still be held back?
[00:24] <RAOF> I think so.  It certainly should complain about a partial upgrade.
[00:25] <cyphermox> when I tried, at the end of last week on another system, nvidia-current just gets removed, and if you try to install it it removes xorg :D
[00:25] <RAOF> cyphermox: Without complaining about a partial upgrade?
[00:25] <RAOF> Or hitting the “ok, partial upgrade, I know what's happening” button?
[00:26] <cyphermox> RAOF, no.
[00:26] <cyphermox> it was a clean install, not at upgrade
[00:26] <cyphermox> when I tried to use jockey to install nvidia drivers -- doom
[00:26] <jcastro> I thought we got rid of the partial upgrade button?
[00:26] <jcastro> because of things like this?
[00:26] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Jocky shouldn't offer to install those (and we need to fix nvidia-current's dependencies)
[00:27] <cyphermox> RAOF, even using apt-get directly, afaik it wouldn't complain so much, just say that it removes packages
[00:27] <cyphermox> I could dist-upgrade that box and check now
[00:27] <cyphermox> brb
[00:28] <RAOF> Yeah.  But it would ask whether you want to proceed.
[00:28] <RAOF> \
[00:28] <RAOF> It's a packaging bug that you *can* install nvidia-current if you ask for it, though.
[00:29] <cyphermox> RAOF, not the first time I see apt and blindly trust it to break my system ;)
[00:41] <DBO> RAOF, I love you :) fix nvidia :) you're a great guy :) but really fix nvidia :) even though I know you cant
[00:41] <RAOF> I can at least tell you how to get back to 1.9 + nvidia.
[00:49] <RAOF> Or, for those playing at home, Unity runs on nouveau+xorg-edgers :)
[01:01] <nmarques> RAOF, fglrx ?
[01:02] <RAOF> fglrx won't work with Xserver 1.10 yet.
[01:02] <RAOF> But the open-source radeon driver works, and also runs Unity.
[01:02] <RAOF> (For cards approximately older than the latest Radeon X6800)
[01:19] <lamalex> ok this is what happened
[01:19] <lamalex> i did read -devel
[01:19] <lamalex> i knew it was wrong I just woke up (umm a little hungover) and did a dist upgrade without thinking because aptitude full-upgrade is what I usually do
[01:19] <lamalex> then everything broke
[01:20] <lamalex> i had been doing update-manager -d and unchecking the x updates previously
[01:20] <lamalex> and then I had a slip up
[01:20] <lamalex> with devastating results
[01:21] <lamalex> RAOF, how difficult is it to get a list of the packages needed to downgrade?
[01:21] <lamalex> because I know ted and DBO both have them
[01:21] <lamalex> I KNOW YOU DO DBO
[01:23] <RAOF> lamalex: See my reply to Jorge.
[01:23] <lamalex> ha uhh which one
[01:23] <lamalex> oh
[01:23] <RAOF> The one I sent 15 seconds ago.
[01:23] <lamalex> nouveau + xorg-edgers works?
[01:24] <RAOF> Nouveau + edgers works.
[01:24] <lamalex> interesting
[01:24] <lamalex> well then here we go
[01:24] <lamalex> ppa:xorg-edgers
[01:24] <lamalex> ?
[01:24] <RAOF> Yes.  I'll invest a little time working out what fixed it so Natty + nouveau can work.
[01:24] <RAOF> Indeed.  ppa:xorg-edgers
[01:25] <lamalex> I will try and be less of an f-tard from now on
[01:25] <lamalex> I made a decision about 20 minutes ago to get my life in order
[01:25] <lamalex> i want some discipline
[01:25] <lamalex> diet. intense amounts of excercise. reading only pure discourse.
[01:26] <lamalex> not upgrading x when I shouldn't.
[01:26] <RAOF> :)
[01:26] <RAOF> Drinking only rainwater or pure grain alcohol… :)
[01:26] <lamalex> hahah
[01:26] <lamalex> you get it
[01:31] <lamalex> ugh i think we have dep issues with libunity/places updates
[01:32] <lamalex> hmm RAOF this update wants to remove xserver-xorg-video-nv
[01:32] <lamalex> eh but not if i dont dist-upgrade nevermind
[01:33] <lamalex> but then it doesn't update -nv
[01:33] <lamalex> :\
[01:33] <lamalex> RAOF, rescue me
[01:34] <lamalex> RAOF, is it core hours for you currently?
[01:35] <lamalex> yes it appears to be 9:30
[01:35] <lamalex> am
[01:35] <lamalex> ok
[01:35] <RAOF> Which update?
[01:36] <RAOF> (Yup, its' the middle of core-hours for me - 12:30)\
[01:36] <lamalex> I'm guessing this? xserver-xorg-core: Breaks: xserver-xorg-video-8 which is a virtual package.
[01:36] <lamalex> should i remove xserver-xorg-video-8
[01:37] <RAOF> Hm.  What part of the update is that?
[01:37] <lamalex> mmm I don't really know how to answer that
[01:37] <RAOF> You've hit the ‘apt-get -f install’ part?
[01:37] <lamalex> well I do aptitude full-upgrade usually
[01:38] <RAOF> Are you trying to follow my “how to downgrade to 1.9” mail, or something different?
[01:39] <lamalex> ohi have not seen that mail
[01:40] <lamalex> i am trying to install xorg-edgers
[01:40] <RAOF> Ah.
[01:40] <lamalex> and use nouveau + xorg-edgers
[01:40] <lamalex> so I added the ppa
[01:40] <lamalex> did and update
[01:40] <lamalex> and now on upgrade i have dep issues
[01:40] <RAOF> Well, it can happily remove xserver-xorg-video-nv; you don't need it.
[01:40] <lamalex> OH RIGHT
[01:40] <lamalex> nv is not nouveau
[01:40] <RAOF> But I'm not sure why it's giving dep issues.  Let me check my local edgers box.
[01:40] <lamalex> steller
[01:40] <RAOF> :)
[01:41] <lamalex> stellar
[01:41] <lamalex> i mean
[01:41] <lamalex> i still don't see a -nouvea update though, should I?
[01:41] <DBO> either of you play xbox?
[01:42] <lamalex> I have to go to the grocery store before they close
[01:42] <lamalex> I will be back in maybe 45 minutes
[01:42] <RAOF> You should see a nouveau updgrade (I think), but most interestingly you'd want libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental.
[01:42] <RAOF> What does “apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-nouveau” output?
[01:44] <lamalex> haha it's not installed
[01:44] <lamalex> i am using nv i guess?
[01:44] <RAOF> Probably -fbdev
[01:44] <RAOF> -nv is almost entirely useless; it can only load if you've disabled kms.
[01:44] <lamalex> hahah that explains why everything looks like shit
[01:44] <lamalex> ok then
[01:44] <lamalex> let's try this again
[01:45] <DBO> ping sladen
[01:46] <RAOF> Install xserver-xorg-{video,input}-all
[01:46] <RAOF> I've done it on my (i386) -edgers system, so all the dependencies should be resolvable.
[01:47] <lamalex> i did not have that -dri-experimental package
[01:47] <lamalex> installing
[01:48] <lamalex> ok i need to go to the grocery store for real
[01:48] <lamalex> i will be back in 45 mins
[01:48] <RAOF> :)
[01:52] <DBO> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/716803 can you confirm this one RAOF?
[01:54] <RAOF> I would, but unity's currently unresponsive  :P
[01:56] <RAOF> Hm.  No, I can't with my working box.
[01:56] <RAOF> DBO: Doesn't seem to apply to my 3.4.2-0ubuntu1 + nouveau box.
[01:56] <DBO> me either...
[01:57] <DBO> Im really wondering how hes getting it to happen
[01:57] <RAOF> Oh, hey!
[01:57] <RAOF> Now it does!
[01:58] <RAOF> What changed… hm.  I added a second window to the screen.
[01:58] <RAOF> And I switched windows using scale.
[01:59] <RAOF> Now it seems that when a window gets mapped or unmapped the launcher is unhidden.
[02:00] <DBO> weird
[02:00] <DBO> okay
[02:00] <DBO> can you try to get exact steps to reproduce
[02:00] <RAOF> That's fun!
[02:01] <DBO> I cant trigger it
[02:01] <DBO> fudge
[02:02] <DBO> RAOF are you currently in that state?
[02:02] <RAOF> No.  I've logged out in order to reproduce from a clean state.
[02:02] <DBO> okay let me know when you get it again
[02:03] <sladen> DBO: yo
[02:03] <DBO> sladen, hows it going
[02:03] <DBO> I see your bug
[02:03] <RAOF> Bah.  Of course, now I can't seem to reproduce :/
[02:03] <DBO> trying to reproduce it now
[02:04] <DBO> it seems like something grabbed XdndSelection and did not let it go
[02:04] <DBO> or something to that effect
[02:05] <RAOF> Oooh!  Win!
[02:05] <RAOF> What info would you like
[02:05] <DBO> RAOF, how you did it
[02:05] <sladen> DBO: interesting, I've had a couple of reboots since then (totally crashed compiz/unity) and now don't see it
[02:05] <DBO> and if you can
[02:05] <DBO> see if anything is currently owning XdndSelection
[02:06] <RAOF> DBO: I *think* it was selecting some text in gnome-terminal and dragging it.
[02:06] <RAOF> Hm.  How would I go about doing that? :)
[02:06] <DBO> how do you drag text from gnome terminal...
[02:06] <RAOF> You don't :)
[02:06] <sladen> selecting/dragging text from FF will cause it
[02:06] <DBO> thank you!
[02:07] <sladen> but it's not the same thing, as the launcher then stays open until you release the text
[02:07] <RAOF> It's kinda  fun summonning the launcher as a side-effect of summoning Do :)
[02:07] <DBO> time to open firefox
[02:07] <sladen> which is different from the constant hiding/unhiding on right-click and the like
[02:07] <DBO> nope
[02:07] <DBO> firefox didn't do it
[02:08]  * RAOF sees if gnome-terminal is a minimum reproducible case.
[02:09] <sladen> wish I'd taken some screencasts
[02:09] <DBO> i believe you
[02:09] <DBO> I even know what code is the likely cause
[02:09] <RAOF> Oh, donkeys.  One hypothesis shot down.
[02:09] <DBO> its supposed to unhide when a DND is started
[02:10] <DBO> so in theory
[02:10] <nmarques> guys, mind about a quick question on nux ?
[02:10] <DBO> starting a drag and drop should fix it
[02:10] <sladen> yeah, that bit is is intention (DND)
[02:10] <DBO> nmarques, go ahead
[02:10] <nmarques> are RenderingPipeGLSL.h and NuxGraphicsObject.h supposed to be zero lengthed ?
[02:11] <DBO> nmarques, there is a lot of crap in nux right now
[02:11] <DBO> so likely yeah
[02:11] <DBO> it needs a good cleaning
[02:11] <DBO> like... badly...
[02:12] <RAOF> Ok.
[02:12] <DBO> Ok.
[02:12] <RAOF> So, I can semi-reliably get it to happen.
[02:12] <DBO> okay how
[02:12] <RAOF> I'm not sure what the trigger is, though.
[02:12] <DBO> thats not a lot of help
[02:12] <RAOF> By fiddling around with a combination of scale & sound-preferences & selecting text in gnome-terminal.
[02:13] <RAOF> Oh, it actually also happens each time you raise a window.
[02:13] <RAOF> Now I'll see if I can narrow down the reproducible steps a bit more.
[02:14] <DBO> RAOF, once you trigger it
[02:14] <DBO> does dragging and dropping something from nautilus fix it
[02:15] <RAOF> Yay!  Reproducible!
[02:15] <sladen> my own guess is/was that it was caused by some focusing change;  so a popup menu is actually a new window, and changing the menu/title at the top is probably doing the same
[02:15] <RAOF> (Not necessarily minimal) Have a maximised gnome-terminal; select some text; trigger scale with super+w
[02:16] <sladen> RAOF: oooh, that works
[02:16] <RAOF> Dragging and dropping something from nautilus to the launcher's rubbish bin does *not* break that state.
[02:17] <sladen> gaah, how do I get out of it again now :)
[02:17] <nmarques> DBO, could you take a look at this and check if this is reliable information ? :)
[02:17] <RAOF> sladen: Log out? :)
[02:17] <nmarques> DBO, http://pastebin.com/wZeQQbiT
[02:17] <RAOF> Running compiz --replace is probably sufficient.  Hm.  Actually - that's an interesting test case.
[02:18] <RAOF> Yes.  compiz --replace drops out of that state.
[02:19] <DBO> wtfing fuck
[02:19] <DBO> okay I need you guys to do some debug for me
[02:19] <DBO> RAOF, open up Launcher.cpp
[02:20] <DBO> find void
[02:20] <DBO> Launcher::EnsureHiddenState ()
[02:20] <DBO> and comment the shit out of it so we can see what is triggering the hide / unhide
[02:21] <RAOF> You mean engage printf debug mode?
[02:21] <DBO> yes
[02:21] <DBO> you'll see a bunch of sub-expressions
[02:21] <DBO> we need to see what each one is
[02:22] <RAOF> Is there a nux-y way to log?
[02:23] <DBO> printf
[02:23] <DBO> any other questions?
[02:24] <DBO> you can use g_print if you really want
[02:24] <DBO> though its the same thing...
[02:24] <DBO> pretty sure all it does is call printf
[02:25] <DBO> RAOF, you may want to note that that method gets called a lot
[02:26] <DBO> so you may want to limit your output to times when the value of _hidden actually changes
[02:27] <DBO> nmarques, that test should be reliable
[02:27] <DBO> nmarques, I cant say for sure
[02:27] <DBO> but its supposed to be
[02:28] <nmarques> DBO, despite of the ATI issue... I'm almost finishing compiz stuff, and soon will try to launch it :)
[02:28] <DBO> nmarques, i dont know whats going on with ATI
[02:28] <DBO> :D
[02:33] <DBO> RAOF?
[02:33] <RAOF> DBO: Installing build deps, building.
[02:33] <DBO> build deps...
[02:33] <DBO> you never built unity from source?
[02:35] <RAOF> I have in the past, but I've  blown that btrfs install away and installed afresh.
[02:35] <RAOF> On ext4, which doesn't take > 2 hours to install unity's build-deps.
[02:36] <DBO> btrfs
[02:36] <DBO> why would you do that...
[02:36] <RAOF> If it doesn't get tested it doesn't get stable, and btfrs has a whole bunch of awesome features that could be used if it *were* stable and default.
[02:37] <lamalex> RAOF, you're the man
[02:39] <DBO> I still cant reproduce the damn bug
[02:39] <DBO> but if DND doesn't fix it...
[02:47] <DBO> RAOF?
[02:47] <kenvandine> DBO, got a branch for the fix?
[02:48] <DBO> kenvandine, just pull down latest libunity
[02:48] <DBO> it was mikkels bug
[02:48] <DBO> i fixed it
[02:49] <RAOF> DBO: I've got all the debug stuff happening,  I just need to reproduce and correlate.
[02:49] <DBO> sweet sweet
[02:56] <RAOF> Bah!  Build again with a little less verbosity, and suddenly reproduction is difficult.  Gah1
[02:58] <DBO> RAOF, teach you to try to reproduce a bug
[02:58] <kenvandine> hey DBO
[02:59] <DBO> Im sorry, all our DBO's are currently with other developers. A DBO will be with you as soon as one is available.
[02:59] <kenvandine> DBO, nice commit message "fix a bug"
[02:59] <kenvandine> hehe
[03:00] <DBO> i didn't want to embarrass mikkel
[03:00] <kenvandine> that kind of bug :-D
[03:00] <sladen> thank goodness nobody reads IRC!
[03:01] <kenvandine> oh!
[03:01] <kenvandine> nice
[03:01] <kenvandine> -  [DBus (name = "org.canonical.Unity.LauncherEntry")]
[03:01] <kenvandine> +  [DBus (name = "com.canonical.Unity.LauncherEntry")]
[03:01] <DBO> yep
[03:01] <DBO> that kind of bug
[03:02] <DBO> the one that confirms you never ever tested your code once
[03:02] <kenvandine> hehe
[03:05] <DBO> no dice so far RAOF?
[03:05] <RAOF> Dope
[03:05] <DBO> debug harder damnit!
[03:06] <RAOF> Yay!
[03:06] <RAOF> GAH!  Do stops working after a compiz --replace.
[03:06] <lamalex> aw
[03:06] <lamalex> poor do
[03:07] <lamalex> ha hey look
[03:07] <lamalex> #ayatana is like #gnome-do
[03:07] <RAOF> So I can't select text→pastebin
[03:07] <lamalex> where is csziksoy
[03:08] <RAOF> And launching firefox has undone the crazy state!
[03:08] <DBO> just get me mah debug biatch
[03:09] <RAOF> Whoops.  Ctrl+C in console ≠ copy.
[03:09] <DBO> dont tell me you lost it
[03:09] <kenvandine> DBO, yay!
[03:09] <DBO> kenvandine, now is not the time for happy
[03:10] <RAOF> DBO: paste.ubuntu.com/565662
[03:10] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, how are you still working :P im about ready to go to bed.. lol
[03:11] <RAOF> DBO: I'll get comparable output while not in state=crazy.
[03:11] <DBO> RAOF, you did bother to note somewhere in there where it was turning on and off right?
[03:11] <kenvandine> DBO, i wish it had worked last night :)
[03:12] <kenvandine> now to do a xchat-indicator release with this goodness
[03:12] <DBO> yes
[03:12] <lamalex> ok reboot time. let's see.
[03:12] <RAOF> Turning on and off?  The debug triggers when the final changes - so each one of those is an on/off pair.
[03:12]  * lamalex crosses fingers
[03:12]  * kenvandine uploads fixed libunity to natty
[03:12] <DBO> RAOF, you did not check _window_is_over_launcher
[03:12] <DBO> whihc I bet is the important one
[03:12] <DBO> _window_over_launcher I mean
[03:13] <DBO> so how does one cause _window_over_launcher to go screwy
[03:16] <RAOF> I'll add those missing things and re-re-reproduce, gently down the stream!
[03:20] <DBO> re-re-reproduce is what all of our parents did
[03:21] <RAOF> DBO: http://paste.ubuntu.com/565664 has a working hide→unhide→hide transition followed by brokenness.
[03:22] <lamalex> :\ still no unity
[03:22] <lamalex> but i am using nouveau now
[03:22] <RAOF> lamalex: if you run compiz, what's the error?
[03:22] <DBO> its the damn autohide handle!
[03:25] <lamalex> RAOF, Fatal: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing
[03:25] <RAOF> ?!
[03:25] <RAOF> glxinfo?
[03:25] <lamalex> although oddly the nux check says everything is ok
[03:25] <DBO> RAOF, where it says !_autohide_handle
[03:26] <lamalex> http://paste.ubuntu.com/565666/ \m/
[03:26] <lamalex> which is odd
[03:27] <RAOF> lamalex: Generally, one tries not to use the software rasteriser :).  Do you have libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental installed?  If so, Xorg.0.log please :)
[03:27] <DBO> RAOF, change it to say !(_autohide_handle && _hidden)
[03:27] <DBO> try that
[03:27] <DBO> god thats fucking complex
[03:27] <lamalex> RAOF, yah
[03:28] <lamalex> RAOF, xorg log http://paste.ubuntu.com/565667/
[03:28] <RAOF> Hurray for ccache.
[03:28] <DBO> RAOF, let me know if that fixes it for you
[03:28] <DBO> and I'll commit that to trunk at some point
[03:28] <RAOF> Wilco.
[03:28] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, have you made changes to the xchat-indicator stuff.. i can't get my code to work, but if you've changed something maybe i can
[03:29] <kenvandine> you need the fixed libunity
[03:29] <RAOF> lamalex: Mmm, vesa's not likely to be 3d accelerated :).  Can you give a dmesg?  The log indicates that nouveau's having trouble opening the drm device.
[03:29] <kenvandine> my code from last night works
[03:29] <bcurtiswx> my problem is that the counting works, its just not showing up on the icon
[03:29] <lamalex> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/565668/
[03:30] <bcurtiswx> i have didrocks' libunity that was built today
[03:30] <bcurtiswx> someone clicked the wrong button 'eh
[03:30] <DBO> bcurtiswx, yeah you need trunk for now
[03:30] <DBO> didrocks build from today is not new enough
[03:31] <bcurtiswx> DBO, will bzr branch lp:libunity give me trunk ?
[03:32] <DBO> bcurtiswx, yes
[03:32] <RAOF> lamalex: Uuur, your kernel command line is funky!  nomodeset + nouveau isn't going to work, at the very least :)
[03:32] <lamalex> lemme check it
[03:32] <lamalex> it might have been tweaked for nvidia
[03:32] <RAOF> lamalex: Maybe drop the uvesafb stuff, too.
[03:32] <RAOF> It looks very much like it has.
[03:33] <DBO> RAOF, does it... does it fix it
[03:33] <DBO> cuz you know... I wanna know...
[03:33] <bcurtiswx> error: Package `Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories
[03:33] <lamalex> RAOF, just quiet splash, right?
[03:33] <RAOF> DBO: Trying now.
[03:33] <RAOF> lamalex: Yah,.
[03:33] <lamalex> ok
[03:34] <lamalex> ok, trying again..
[03:34] <bcurtiswx> DBO, ^^
[03:35] <RAOF> DBO: I can't tell.  First attempt resulted in the launcher not actually showing up when it should.  I'll see if that's transient.
[03:35] <DBO> uhm
[03:35] <RAOF> ...and now it's not *hiding* when it should.
[03:35] <DBO> i may have made that backwards
[03:35] <DBO> the logic is a bit hard there
[03:35] <RAOF> I'll try reversing it :)
[03:36] <DBO> RAOF, bool autohide_handle_hold = _autohide_handle && !hidden;
[03:36] <bcurtiswx> DBO, error: Package `Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories.. config worked.. am i missing something tho?
[03:36] <DBO> and then where it used to say !_autohide_handle
[03:36] <DBO> make that !autohide_handle_hold
[03:37] <RAOF> Do you mean !hidden or !_hidden?
[03:37] <lamalex> ok RAOF now I have no X :P
[03:37] <lamalex> gdm just flashes
[03:38] <RAOF> lamalex: Sweet! Xorg.0.log? :)
[03:38] <RAOF> DBO: I'm going with !_hidden
[03:38] <lamalex> heh much harder to copy and paste the link :P
[03:38] <DBO> RAOF, same thing
[03:39] <lamalex> http://paste.ubuntu.com/565670
[03:39] <lamalex> RAOF: ^
[03:39] <lamalex> but good news my tty is much nicer looking sans those lines in grub
[03:40] <lamalex> if byobu was only a curses version unity
[03:40] <lamalex> that would be wonderful
[03:41] <RAOF> Hm.  That's a new one on me.
[03:41] <sladen> DBO: RAOF: happy debugging.  going to crash now. nn
[03:41] <DBO> sladen, no crashing, this is Ubuntu
[03:41] <lamalex> RAOF: i didnt see anything obviously wrong in there, what line?
[03:41] <RAOF> lamalex: The bit near the end (starting at 318) where it prints a backtrace.
[03:42] <lamalex> RAOF: i can't see the paste..
[03:42] <bcurtiswx> hmm, can't figure out whats causing that error
[03:42] <lamalex> oh
[03:42] <lamalex> i was not at the bottom of the file apparently
[03:43] <RAOF> DBO: I think that's got it.
[03:43] <lamalex> ha. nice.
[03:43] <RAOF> lamalex: Yeah, it's a bit above the bottom; X catches its own segfaults and prints a backtrace.
[03:43] <bcurtiswx> error: Package `Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories..  if anyone has a clue that'd be great
[03:43] <lamalex> suh-weet.
[03:45] <DBO> RAOF, any luck?
[03:45] <RAOF> DBO: Yeah, I think that change fixes it.
[03:45] <DBO> awesome
[03:45] <DBO> okay I'll have that fix in my next branch
[03:46] <DBO> ehhh I'll put it up now actually
[03:47] <lamalex> RAOF: i like how it tells you to consult the x log in the x log :P
[03:47] <RAOF> It's very good that way :)
[03:48] <bcurtiswx> lamalex, its the ol' recursive trick.  try to make your head go "kaploooey"
[03:48] <lamalex> so, i wonder what is making it segfault
[03:48] <DBO> RAOF, pushed
[03:48] <lamalex> because it wasn't segfaulting with all of the grubstuff
[03:48] <DBO> thank you for the help
[03:49] <lamalex> RAOF: think maybe the uvesafb jawn will help?
[03:49] <RAOF> It might, if only because it prevents nouveau from loading.
[03:49] <lamalex> ha
[03:49] <RAOF> What would be _really_ nice is a symbolic backtrace.
[03:49] <lamalex> know how I can get one?
[03:50] <RAOF> Something's gone kablooie there, possibly while registering GESTURE, possibly in GLX.
[03:50] <lamalex> can I run x under gdb?
[03:50] <RAOF> lamalex: SSH in from another system, sudo gdb X :)
[03:50] <lamalex> why can't I from this system?
[03:50] <kenvandine> DBO, if you aren't running unity, will unity_launcher_entry_get_for_desktop_id just return NULL?
[03:50] <lamalex> RAOF: also when I run X it says I'm not authorized
[03:51] <lamalex> does x nees to be run as root??
[03:51] <DBO> kenvandine, no it works regardless
[03:51] <RAOF> Yes, X needs root.  Still.
[03:51] <lamalex> ah ok
[03:51]  * lamalex goes to get his netbook
[03:51] <bcurtiswx> hmm
[03:51] <kenvandine> DBO, humm... how does it get a launcher if there is no unity launcher running?
[03:51] <RAOF> lamalex: Because X will change VTs, and then when gdb stops it you'll be on the wrong VT.  And X needs to *release* the VT in order for you to switch back to gdb
[03:51] <DBO> kenvandine, it doesn't, thats the magic of dbus
[03:51] <kenvandine> i guess i should worry about it if it won't actually break people :)
[03:52] <DBO> kenvandine, also I did mention that you dont actually get to see remote state
[03:52] <kenvandine> true
[03:52] <DBO> kenvandine, if you in one program set the count to 2
[03:52] <DBO> other programs dont see it
[03:52] <bcurtiswx> well i can't build the current libunity :-\
[03:53] <bcurtiswx> error: Package `Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories
[03:53] <DBO> make sure dbusmenu-glib is installed bcurtiswx
[03:53] <lamalex> hey RAOF so I assume there are some debugging symbol packages I should install
[03:53] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, renamed
[03:53] <lamalex> any idea which ones>
[03:54] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, it is Dbusmenu-0.4 now
[03:54] <kenvandine> not Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4
[03:54] <bcurtiswx> this is trunk im building from
[03:55] <kenvandine> yeah
[03:55] <kenvandine> dbusmenu changed just today
[03:55] <bcurtiswx> oh, configure.ac change?
[03:55] <RAOF> lamalex: xserver-xorg-core-dbg, xserver-xorg-input-evdev-dbg,  xserver-xorg-video-nouveau-dbg.  In general, check out list-symbols-packages-v2.sh from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash - it's awesome.
[03:56] <DBO> RAOF, still fixed? :)
[03:56] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, no, just where it needs a gir or vapi name
[03:56] <RAOF> DBO: Hasn't come back yet :)
[03:56] <DBO> RAOF, you make my happy place happy
[03:57] <lamalex> RAOF: when I have X again I totally will
[03:57] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, what are you building?
[03:57] <bcurtiswx> libunity
[03:57] <kenvandine> lp:~ken-vandine/libunity/dbusmenu_rename
[03:57] <kenvandine> merge that branch
[03:58] <kenvandine> i just proposed that merge to libunity
[03:58] <kenvandine> renamed it to fix GIR problems
[03:58] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK thx
[03:59] <bcurtiswx> holy warnings batman
[04:00] <lamalex> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/565676
[04:00] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, do i need to restart unity after the make installs?
[04:00] <RAOF> lamalex: Bah, sorry.  libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental-dbgsym too?
[04:01] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, yes
[04:01] <bcurtiswx> FKDSNLFJBNDSJLbf
[04:01] <bcurtiswx> IT WORKS!!
[04:01] <kenvandine> woot
[04:02] <bcurtiswx> aww, didn't update total
[04:02] <bcurtiswx> but i got the initial draw tho
[04:03] <lamalex> RAOF: with dri: http://paste.ubuntu.com/565679
[04:03] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, wait isn't that your problem too.. do I need to do something special?
[04:03] <kenvandine> not anymore
[04:03] <kenvandine> works great now
[04:05] <RAOF> lamalex: But that does tell me it's dying in glx init, so you could get X back just by removeing libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental.
[04:05] <RAOF> (In case you missed it in my crazy-router disconnect)
[04:05] <lamalex> i did miss that
[04:05] <lamalex> ok i will try that
[04:05] <lamalex> let's see
[04:06] <RAOF> Did you also miss the request for libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental-dbgsym?
[04:06] <lamalex> no, i posted a second trace with those symbols
[04:06] <lamalex> well
[04:06] <lamalex> i missed the request
[04:07] <lamalex> but i figured that out mself
[04:07] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, hmm only works when i reset unity
[04:07] <lamalex> ermm ok so x started i guess but blak screen
[04:07] <bcurtiswx> maybe restart comp?
[04:08] <RAOF> lamalex: Sadness.  With libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental removed?  Try a restart; sometimes things get wedged.
[04:08] <lamalex> ok no i got it
[04:08] <bcurtiswx> brb gonna restart
[04:08] <lamalex> i needed to start gdm
[04:08] <lamalex> ok i have gnome
[04:08] <RAOF> Woot!
[04:08] <RAOF> But edgers segfaults X on startup for you.
[04:09] <lamalex> and at a much nicer res than vesa
[04:09] <RAOF> This is probably because you've got a significantly newer card than anything I've got access to.
[04:09] <lamalex> so this is /better/
[04:09] <RAOF> Oh, yes.  And with acceleration! :)
[04:09] <lamalex> RAOF: if there's anything I can do to help
[04:09] <lamalex> ill test any crazy patches you want just send em to me
[04:10] <RAOF> lamalex: I'll see about backporting the bit which fixes unity on *my* machine, then talk patches.
[04:11] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, well
[04:12] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, only shows on a unity --reset
[04:12] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i can pastebin the code for a quick look if you want
[04:13] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/565682/
[04:15] <kenvandine> i'll try to look in  a bit
[04:15] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK
[04:15] <kenvandine> want to get xchat-indicator uploaded here
[04:15] <bcurtiswx> for sure, i hope i can get empathy out tomorrow.. for sure with your help
[04:20] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, highlight
[04:20] <kenvandine> woot
[04:20] <kenvandine> working well
[04:21] <bcurtiswx> brag brag brag :P
[04:21] <kenvandine> :-D
[04:28] <lamalex> hmm nouveau does not seem to handle my laptop backlight as well
[04:36] <lamalex> and renders notify osd wrong
[04:36] <lamalex> nice
[04:39] <bcurtiswx> 11:39PM and it's probably like 12 in the afternoon in Australias
[04:52] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, save that paste loc, and we'll chat next tomorrow mornin ?
[04:53] <bcurtiswx> nite all
[06:40] <RAOF> Urgh!  Lets say I'm using the newest unity, and I *still* have the problem with an invisible window stealing input on the leftmost part of my screen.  What info, if any, do you guys \need?
[07:36] <didrocks> good morning
[07:56] <RAOF> Howdie didrocks
[08:00] <didrocks> hey RAOF
[08:03] <RAOF> Mmm, bisecting mesa on an atom netbook.  It's fast, like the lightning!
[08:05] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:06] <MacSlow> greeetings folks
[08:07] <RAOF> Ah.  It's obviously the morning somewhere :)
[08:08] <MacSlow> hey there RAOF
[08:09] <RAOF> Hey MacSlow!
[08:25] <sladen> moaning
[09:17] <didrocks> sladen: hey
[09:17] <didrocks> sladen: I've uploaded a cherry-picked version fixing most of the false positive in showing the launcher
[09:17] <didrocks> sladen: but I can still trigger some, just not a reproducible testcase though
[09:17] <didrocks> sladen: if you find one, do not hesitate to open a new bug :)
[09:18] <sladen> didrocks: oooh, groovy.  I was expecting to wait a week (or succomb to local patching!
[09:18] <didrocks> sladen: no, it was too annoying to let it that way :)
[09:18] <didrocks> but still, some false positives (not a lot though)
[09:19] <didrocks> so test case can be nice! :)
[09:20] <sladen> didrocks: it's very modal.  So it's fine until you trigger whatever combination sends it into that mode
[09:20] <sladen> didrocks: will keep my eye out
[09:20] <didrocks> sladen: thanks :)
[10:13] <DJKorbit> good morning
[10:59] <DJKorbit> i've followed the instructions in the INSTALL file of unity on how to install from source
[10:59] <DJKorbit> but i can't my compiled version of unity
[10:59] <DJKorbit> any clue of what might be going wrong?
[11:50] <kamstrup> Does anyone know why I can no longer hold down a keyboard key, I have to do repeated tapping now...
[11:51] <kamstrup> Ah, already found the option
[11:51] <kamstrup> Awesome that 'Keypresses repeat when key is held down' defaults to false...
[11:52] <kamstrup> X-|
[12:16] <aruiz> dbarth, at what time is ted usually around?
[13:22] <cyphermox> kvalo, you there?
[13:25] <kvalo> cyphermox: yes
[13:25] <kvalo> cyphermox: what's up?
[13:26] <cyphermox> hey :)
[13:26] <cyphermox> testing the new connman and ofono now
[13:27] <cyphermox> so normally things should just work for eth, wifi and 3g?
[13:29] <kvalo> cyphermox: cool. for 3g it depends what modem you have.
[13:29] <cyphermox> zte mf 636
[13:29] <cyphermox> it's a pretty standard one, I don't think it has too complex an interface ;)
[13:30] <kvalo> cyphermox: what's the usb id?
[13:33] <cyphermox> 19d2:2000, flips to 19d2:0108 IIRC
[13:35] <kvalo> cyphermox: idProduct 2000 is missing from ofono.rules, at least.
[13:36] <kvalo> cyphermox: sorry, meant 0108 of course
[13:36] <kvalo> cyphermox: but do you have problems with wifi and ethernet as well?
[13:37] <cyphermox> kvalo, only getting to testing
[13:37] <cyphermox> I don't want to break my dev systems so I took my aspire one, but it needed updating
[13:37] <kvalo> ah, ok
[13:37] <cyphermox> but afaik, the new conflicts work great
[13:37] <kvalo> good, that's very important
[13:38] <cyphermox> it would just be cool if you could tell me how connman and ofono get restarted on upgrades, because afaik they shouldn't (potentially cuts connections, which is not good when you're trying to do work at the same time)
[13:40] <kvalo> cyphermox: for daily builds they are restarted currently
[13:40] <kvalo> cyphermox: let me check from the scripts
[13:40] <cyphermox> well, here now they got restarted
[13:40] <cyphermox> it's not in maint scripts :/
[13:41] <cyphermox> maybe upstart does that itself?
[13:41] <kvalo> DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS = --restart-after-upgrade
[13:41] <cyphermox> d'oh
[13:41] <cyphermox> I fail ;)
[13:41] <kvalo> but that was from the daily builds
[13:42] <kvalo> I doubt ubuntu packages have that
[13:43] <kvalo> yeah, you should use --no-restart-on-upgrade
[13:44] <kvalo> cyphermox: but I have to say that if I agree that it's better to reboot than restart connman. it's extremely annoying to boot the whole device
[13:45] <cyphermox> kvalo, there won't be daily connman updates though
[13:45] <kvalo> cyphermox: true
[13:45] <kvalo> but still every reboot is an annoyance
[13:46] <kvalo> heh, maybe something like connman would restart itself when it's disconnected ;)
[13:46] <cyphermox> there is no better way than notify for reboot afaik
[13:46] <cyphermox> that's how NM does it now
[13:46] <cyphermox> doesn't mean you *have* to reboot, you can just restart connman and carry on if that's what you prefer ;)
[13:47] <kvalo> actually for ofono udev rules might be broken
[13:48]  * bcurtiswx waves to room
[13:48] <kvalo> they are not always backward compatible
[13:48] <kvalo> bcurtiswx: hi
[13:48] <cyphermox> bcurtiswx, hey
[13:49] <cyphermox> kvalo, it's time to test ofono now
[13:49] <cyphermox> wifi is online
[13:49] <cyphermox> connman doesn't have ipv6 yet does it?
[13:58] <cyphermox> kvalo, ok, seems my modem is actually a :0031, and supported
[13:59] <kvalo> cyphermox: it has ipv6, but indicator-network doesn't support yet. but if you have radvd, it will work
[13:59] <kvalo> cyphermox: cool that your modem works!
[14:00] <cyphermox> i don't have radvd, connman should ask dhcp too
[14:00] <kvalo> dhcpv6 is not supported
[14:00] <cyphermox> kvalo, yikes
[14:00] <cyphermox> oh well
[14:01] <kvalo> why do you need dhcpv6?
[14:01] <cyphermox> btw, I noticed something: failed to set regulatory domain
[14:01] <cyphermox> kvalo,  that's how I hand off IPv6 addresses here
[14:01] <kvalo> RA is much easier :)
[14:01] <cyphermox> supported by my wireless router too
[14:02] <cyphermox> it's easier yes, but I like things complicated :)
[14:02] <kvalo> :)
[14:02] <kvalo> about the regdomain, I think we should just disable that for now
[14:02] <cyphermox> no
[14:02] <cyphermox> it's there for a reason ;)
[14:03] <cyphermox> and it also fails for a reason here: driver has its own rules and handles it properly
[14:03] <kvalo> nah, hardware will provide the regdomain anyway
[14:03] <cyphermox> kvalo, I think connman knows better
[14:03] <kvalo> I haven't checked, but most probably connman checks the country from ip and sets the regdomain based from that
[14:03] <cyphermox> e.g you can give the right regdomain based on location, which the driver doesn't necessarily know
[14:04] <kvalo> but that's not really needed feature right now and most probably just exposes kernel bugs
[14:04] <cyphermox> kvalo, otoh, this is details. for now things seem to work
[14:04] <cyphermox> kvalo, this is not about feature though, really more about compliance
[14:05] <kvalo> in the future, then things are really stable setting regdomain based on location is safe.
[14:05] <kvalo> but that's so new stuff
[14:06] <kvalo> so there are definitely bugs.
[14:06] <kvalo> for example, I was reading last week about regdomain bugs in kernel
[14:06] <cyphermox> well, what I mean is it's not a crasher, so I don't think it should be taken out
[14:06] <cyphermox> not touched, maybe, if it's buggy but not crashing (better than none at all)
[14:06] <kvalo> it doesn't crash your setup
[14:07] <cyphermox> no, it doesn't
[14:07] <cyphermox> just a log entry
[14:07] <kvalo> but might create problems for someone else
[14:07] <kvalo> but I don't care that much that I would start arguing about this :)
[14:08] <cyphermox> hehe me neither
[14:16] <kvalo> cyphermox: how does it work otherwise? btw, did you include my dhcp patch?
[14:18] <cyphermox> yup
[14:18] <kvalo> nice
[14:18] <cyphermox> oh wait... this is going to be a little more difficult to test properly
[14:19] <kvalo> gord: oh no, http://valadoc.org/valadoc.html doesn't work for me!
[14:20]  * kvalo needs his valadoc
[14:20] <gord> kvalo, http://valadoc.org/references.html ?
[14:20] <kvalo> gord: works, thanks :)
[14:21] <gord> :)
[14:23] <DJKorbit> hi
[14:23] <DJKorbit> anyone here with troubles running your compiled version of unity?
[14:24] <DJKorbit> i'd like to share my pain with someone
[14:30] <DJKorbit> i'm getting a segfault when i try to launch unity's compiz plugin
[14:30] <DJKorbit> i'm using compiz from git repo
[14:34] <lamalex> apinheiro, i just replied to your testing email
[14:35] <mtrudel> kvalo: apparently, my ppa packages don' t have the patch, but I did put it in the branch, so updating now to test this ;)
[14:36] <kvalo> mtrudel: thanks
[14:39] <API> lamalex, ok, thanks, I will read it now
[14:40] <lamalex> woo we are down to 18 NEW bugs in unity
[14:42] <didrocks> + a few on the places and bamf/dee, but yeah, the bug number is way lower, good work dx!
[14:42] <didrocks> :)
[14:43] <DJKorbit> can any of you help me to put my compiled version of unity running?
[14:43] <DJKorbit> i always get a segfault on compiz when i start unity
[14:43] <lamalex> DJKorbit, when it's printing out the nux information?
[14:44] <DJKorbit> i don't know, here is what i did
[14:44] <DJKorbit> i downloaded the source, compiled and installed this packages
[14:44] <DJKorbit> ccsm                 compiz-with-glib-mainloop  nux            plugins-main
[14:44] <DJKorbit> compizconfig-python  libcompizconfig            plugins-extra  unity
[14:45] <DJKorbit> in the order written in the INSTALL file in unity
[14:45] <DJKorbit> i run "compiz --replace cpp &" and i get an error saying that cpp does not exist
[14:45] <DJKorbit> then i run ccsm and unity appears enabled, i disable it and enable it again, then i get the segfault
[14:46] <DJKorbit> this is really annoying because i have code i want to test and i can't even test a printf to see if my code is running :(
[14:47] <DJKorbit> i think i've fixed the code for the launcher showing up unmounted volumes, but i can't test it
[14:47] <lamalex> API, what I suggested might be a little difficult as you need a compiz screen
[14:48] <API> so TestPanel.cpp is somehow a compiz plugin?
[14:48] <API> lamalex, ^
[14:48] <API> as far as I see on this code
[14:49] <lamalex> no testpanel.cpp is not a compiz plugin
[14:49] <API> it seems a standalone nux application
[14:49] <lamalex> yes
[14:49] <API> not a compiz plugin
[14:49] <API> that is what Im answering on my email
[14:49] <API> that we can't use that approach
[14:49] <API> at least
[14:49] <API> not directly
[14:49] <cyphermox> hey mtrudel
[14:49] <mtrudel> cyphermox: hey dude
[14:50] <cyphermox> kvalo, mtrudel is my session on konversation w/ connman with your patch, let's see if it disconnects after 3 min (my dhcp lease time)
[14:51] <lamalex> API, yah that's why I said, "API, what I suggested might be a little difficult as you need a compiz screen"
[14:51] <kvalo> hi mtrudel :)
[14:51] <cyphermox> hehe
[14:51] <cyphermox> so far so good
[14:51] <API> lamalex, so you are suggesting more or less doing the same that in the TesPanel
[14:52] <API> but mixed with david proposal
[14:52] <API> of looking the code
[14:52] <API> of basic compiz plugins
[14:52] <API> something like a "unity testing compiz plugin"
[14:53] <cyphermox> kvalo, I think it would be nice to have some logging to let us know there was a dhcp renewal with no change; just in case we find out down the road that there's an issue
[14:53] <cyphermox> kvalo, but I think this is proving that your patch works as expected applied to the package
[14:54] <kvalo> cyphermox: with '-d' there is a message. if you see "changed = 0" or something like that there is no change
[14:54] <cyphermox> oh
[14:54] <cyphermox> cool, that's good enough
[14:57] <DJKorbit> lamalex, if i send you my patch, can you see if it fixes the mount bug?
[14:57] <cyphermox> kvalo, perfect, just got a "changed 0"
[14:58] <kvalo> cyphermox: I accidentally forgot that debug line to the patch ;)
[14:58] <lamalex> DJKorbit, no I am not able to run unity atm
[14:58] <DJKorbit> lamalex, ok
[14:59] <lamalex> DJKorbit, where is is segfaulting, how are you running unity that you know it's segfaulting?
[14:59] <DJKorbit> i'm calling through gnome-terminal
[15:00] <DJKorbit> i run compiz --replace and it exists with segfault once i activate the unity plugin in ccsm
[15:00] <lamalex> ahh
[15:00] <lamalex> DJKorbit, ok so first off it's way easier to run 'unity' from the command line
[15:06] <DJKorbit> lamalex, i'll try that
[15:07] <DJKorbit> it doesn't work, i don't have window borders now
[15:08] <DJKorbit> i'll run the default unity from a text console export the display to :0
[15:08] <DJKorbit> i'll try to use gdb to open the core dump
[15:09] <DJKorbit> where does the core dump go?
[15:11] <DJKorbit> i tried /var/crash
[15:11] <DJKorbit> what segfaulted was unity-panel-service
[15:11] <DJKorbit> ExecutablePath: /usr/lib/unity/unity-panel-service
[15:13] <DJKorbit> ignore that crash, it's from yesterday
[15:26] <kenvandine> ronoc, i proposed a branch porting to libnotify4-dev, so it doesn't depend on the deprecated libnotify
[15:26] <kenvandine> ronoc, note the new libnotify dropped support for attaching to a widget
[15:33] <ronoc> kenvandine, any other way around not attaching to the widget ?
[15:34] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i am using your xchat-indicator but somehow my (locally built unity) isn't showing numbers when i'm highlighted
[15:34] <bcurtiswx> so i'll have to look as to why my unity isn't updating
[15:50] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ping
[15:50] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, thx.. indicator works, but not mind..
[15:50]  * bcurtiswx \o/
[15:50] <bcurtiswx> mine*
[15:51] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:51] <kenvandine> any changes since last night?
[15:51] <bcurtiswx> nope
[15:51] <kenvandine> ok, i'll try soonish
[15:51] <kenvandine> glad the xchat one works though
[15:51] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:51] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, thx.  i'll let you know if i get anywhere :)
[15:52]  * bcurtiswx bows down to kenvandine 
[16:03] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, when you do look at the code.. don't laugh :P
[16:04] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i glanced at it last night... it looks remarkably like xchat-indicator :)
[16:04] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, however, being nestled down in empathy's event code is going to make it need to be more complicated i suspect
[16:05] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, yes well.. the count works. as the debug shows.. at least
[16:06] <kenvandine> oh... good :)
[16:06] <kenvandine> i'll look after i get through some of these DX releases
[16:07] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, sorry i didn't get to it last night... i fell asleep with my laptop still open right after i got xchat-indicator uploaded :)
[16:08] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, no need to be sorry :)
[16:09] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, did todays unity libunity updates include the stuff we need for this, so I don't have to keep building from source
[16:09] <kenvandine> yes
[16:09] <kenvandine> i uploaded that fix last night before i crashed
[16:10] <bcurtiswx> OK, well then maybe unity will work for me.. lol
[16:14] <bcurtiswx> ping someone plz
[16:16] <aruiz> tedg, ping
[16:17]  * kenvandine waves to aruiz
[16:17] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ping
[16:17] <aruiz> kenvandine, hey hey
[16:17] <aruiz> how are you doing?
[16:17] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, once more, plz
[16:17] <kenvandine> great, and you?
[16:17] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ping once more
[16:18] <aruiz> kenvandine, having some LibreOffice/DBusMenu fun
[16:18] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, hmm, with todays libunity i don't see your numbers.. maybe somethings wrong on my system
[16:18] <kenvandine> aruiz, that really doesn't sound like fun
[16:18] <kenvandine> :)
[16:18] <aruiz> kenvandine, it's painful, but somewhat rewarding
[16:23] <bcurtiswx> hmm, just got -0ubuntu5 for libunity3.. ping again :) i appreciate the help
[16:24] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ping
[16:24] <bcurtiswx> no numbers.. fully updated :-\
[16:24] <bcurtiswx> for xchat-indicator
[16:25] <kenvandine> oh?
[16:25] <kenvandine> is it showing up in your indicator?
[16:25] <bcurtiswx> ping again.. didn't look
[16:32] <and471> kvalo, hi
[16:32] <and471> kvalo, from first glance I can't see the root of the problem
[16:32] <and471> so I want to compile and run indicator-network-settings to see if I can fix it
[16:33] <and471> should libconnman work on maverick?
[16:54] <dbarth_> tedg: piti is offering to help get a fallback plan for nvidia in #ubuntu-meeting
[16:55]  * apw wonders if the experimental package of gallium drivers might work for your purposes
[16:55] <dbarth_> lamalex: victopr is looking for the autopilot program, the current version will do if the c++ one is blocked
[16:55] <dbarth_> victorp rather
[16:55] <dbarth_> apw: we'de rather get nvidia, as this is what users will most probably run
[16:55] <dbarth_> ie, what we will recommend for natty
[16:56] <apw> dbarth_, no pretty boot for them then
[16:56] <dbarth_> but yeah, for a 2-weeks solution
[16:56] <dbarth_> ie, to let developers continue to work
[16:56] <apw> yeah
[16:56] <dbarth_> apw: thanks for proposing to help
[16:57] <apw> one should ask bryce about the xorg-retro PPA, that might be utilised too
[16:59] <dbarth_> tedg: ^^
 apw: libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental
[16:59] <apw> is the gallium stuff one might try
[17:00] <lamalex> dbarth_, I updated the python one in trunk yesterday to fix the indent error
[17:00] <lamalex> didrocks, did you make that packaging fix?
[17:00] <dbarth_> lamalex: super, thanks
[17:00] <dbarth_> lamalex: just reference it on the unity wiki page somewhere, and you'll get customers; they're waiting at the door: they all want it ;)
[17:00] <didrocks> lamalex: you mean, taking your latest version?
[17:01] <dbarth_> victorp, the xorg guys
[17:01] <dbarth_> cool
[17:01] <lamalex> dbarth_, ok
[17:01] <lamalex> didrocks, yah- we were going to install it to like /usr/lib/unity or something
[17:02] <didrocks> lamalex: no, I didn't think about it (add to an install target): please open a bug so that I can think we I have some time
[17:02] <lamalex> :(
[17:02] <didrocks> sorry but ETOOMANYPING
[17:02] <lamalex> we talked about it in Dallas
[17:02] <didrocks> lamalex: I know, I have to change the upstream cmake file
[17:02] <didrocks> (so not really packaging)
[17:03] <lamalex> dbarth_, I will update a wiki page sometime today, in the mean time can you tell victor it's in unity trunk tools/autopilot.py
[17:09] <jcastro> kklimonda: did you get my mail wrt. transmission and progress bar thingies?
[17:28] <nmarques> good people, will we have a libindicate release soon ?
[17:29] <nmarques> last file name changes on dbusmenu trigger build side effects on libindicate
[17:51] <lamalex> oubiwann_, this is where bug info has been going https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnityFilingBugs
[17:51] <lamalex> including triage stuff
[17:52] <oubiwann_> lamalex: awesome, thanks
[17:54] <lamalex> gabaug, http://i.imgur.com/KKCOw.png
[17:55] <lamalex> be right back
[17:55] <lamalex> erm, sorry
[18:02] <lamalex> where is ted?
[18:06] <nmarques> tedg, hi, do you have planned an update for libindicate ?
[18:09] <tedg> nmarques, update?  Today?
[18:10] <nmarques> tedg, yeah a new release, the latest changes on dbusmenu broke libindicate for me :(
[18:11] <kenvandine> nmarques, how so?
[18:11] <kenvandine> is it just the build?
[18:11] <tedg> nmarques, Uhg, I didn't realize it broke.  So, need to fix it before I can release it :)
[18:11] <nmarques> tedg, Couldn't find include 'Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4.gir'
[18:11] <kenvandine> right
[18:11] <nmarques> tedg, indicator-sound also the same ;)
[18:12] <kenvandine> that would be an easy patch :)
[18:12] <kenvandine> just rename it
[18:12] <kenvandine> nmarques, i proposed a branch to ronoc for indicator-sound already
[18:12] <nmarques> kenvandine, I haven't looked at it yet, cause I'm still updating other stuff
[18:12] <kenvandine> ok
[18:12] <nmarques> kenvandine, but from my repo, those 2 packages seem to be the only ones with a problem so far
[18:12] <kenvandine> just replace Dbusmenu-Glib-0.4 with Dbusmenu-0.4 in Makefile.am
[18:13] <kenvandine> we renamed that to fix introspection
[18:13] <nmarques> yeah, I've seen the changelogs ;)
[18:13] <kenvandine> ok
[18:13] <lamalex> tedg, do there is little to nothing about triaging on that wiki page duncan emailed. I really don't even know where to start since my technique is, "do I know what the problem is? Yes -> Confirms | No -> Ask for glxinfo/drivers" :P
[18:15] <tedg> lamalex, Heh, in general it should be "does it look like there's enough information to debug" else "ask for more info" -- but surely more debugging techniques is useful.
[18:15] <tedg> lamalex, We should probably work on that some as well.
[18:15] <tedg> lamalex, Like, how do you get the data out of the places to see if they're broken.
[18:16] <lamalex> you mean Places (tm)
[18:16] <lamalex> ?
[18:16] <tedg> lamalex, Yeah, there should be some way with dee, no?
[18:16] <nmarques> kenvandine, I've fixed it, do you want me to submit the patches ?
[18:16] <lamalex> tedg, I actually don't know
[18:16] <tedg> Perhaps we could do an apport hook or something...
[18:17] <tedg> nmarques, Actually, I fixed it too :)
[18:17] <tedg> nmarques, So no need :)
[18:17] <tedg> Thank you though!
[18:17] <nmarques> tedg, a release is better for me, cause the less patches the better ;)
[18:17] <nmarques> tedg, np
[18:18] <tedg> nmarques, Yeah, can do.
[18:18] <nmarques> tedg, awesome ;P
[18:28] <jcastro> DBO: did you see trevino's menu fade merge proposal from yesterday?
[18:28] <DBO> jcastro, no
[18:44] <jcastro> DBO: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/fading-title
[18:44] <jcastro> it appears that you're on it
[18:44] <DBO> jcastro, i didn't do that
[18:44] <DBO> someone else di
[18:44] <DBO> d
[18:45] <DBO> oh that one!
[18:45] <DBO> yeah I think thats merged
[18:45] <tedg> lamalex, Here's the one I wrote previously: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingGNOMEPowerManager
[18:46] <tedg> lamalex, That may have some ideas.
[18:46] <lamalex> cool
[18:50] <tedg> nmarques, https://launchpad.net/libindicate/0.5/0.4.93
[18:51] <nmarques> tedg, ;) thx
[18:54] <lamalex> tedg, that page is pretty detailed, nice
[18:58] <DBO> gnome-power-manager has a significant memory leak
[18:58] <tedg> lamalex, What else can we ask for unity?  Perhaps dump the panel-service?
[18:58] <tedg> DBO, It seems to be libappindicator, though we've been unable to effectively isolate it.
[18:59] <lamalex> introspection dumb
[18:59] <lamalex> dump
[18:59] <DBO> tedg really...
[18:59] <DBO> if the leak is there its likely elsewhere too
[18:59] <tedg> DBO, Yes, but on some systems GPM rebuilds the menu several times a second, so it's most noticible there.
[19:00] <tedg> DBO, I actually think that it's in the GTK menu code, but I have no proof.
[19:02] <DBO> tedg, is it possible to stub out methods to deal with gtk menu?
[19:03] <tedg> DBO, possibly, but since the app is the one allocating all those, and we're responding to them.  I'm not sure it'd prove that it's GtkMenu's fault even if we did.
[19:06] <tedg> DBO, bug 569273
[19:08] <tedg> lamalex, Didn't smspillaz have a mode to dump compiz's memory, should we put that in the doc?
[19:09] <lamalex> hm maybe
[19:09] <lamalex> smspillaz, ^ wake up
[19:10] <smspillaz> tedg: yes, the debug spew plugin
[19:10] <smspillaz> (I'm not awake)
[19:11] <tedg> smspillaz, How does one do that?
[19:11] <smspillaz> tedg: ccsm -> debug spewer -> enable it -> set the keybinding -> wait for something bad to happen -> press keybinding -> send /tmp/compiz_internal_state$pid to me
[19:11] <smspillaz> or to whoever
[19:13] <kenvandine> tedg, is libindicate the last for the day?
[19:15] <jcastro> DBO: man I just found the coolest launcher bug, I had to take a video, you're going to love this
[19:15] <DBO> jcastro, is it the one where the hiding flips the hell out
[19:15] <jcastro> yeah
[19:15] <jcastro> it's totally awesome
[19:16]  * kenvandine wants to see
[19:17] <jcastro> one sec
[19:17] <spikeb> hmm, release schedule got changed a bit.
[19:18] <jcastro> kenvandine: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/nice_one_jason.ogv
[19:19] <spikeb> LOL love the name
[19:19] <jcastro> heh
[19:19] <jcastro> I love how my pithos icon inexplicably just attached itself to the mouse pointer
[19:19] <DBO> jcastro, you have such fail in me
[19:19] <spikeb> haha
[19:20] <DBO> jcastro, can you figure out how to trigger it reliably?
[19:20] <DBO> thats been the hardest part of fixing that
[19:20] <jcastro> yes, switching to any non-static option in ccsm
[19:20] <jcastro> if I turn off autohide it works
[19:20] <jcastro> but any autohide mode makes it go like that
[19:20] <DBO> wait what?
[19:20] <DBO> every time?
[19:20] <jcastro> yeah
[19:21] <DBO> seriously...
[19:21] <jcastro> Dodge active window seems to make it the most spastic
[19:21] <jcastro> with the other hides it tries to come out but jiggles and gives up
[19:22] <jcastro> when I do dodge active window it basically sits there jiggling indefinately
[19:22] <DBO> works fine here...
[19:22] <jcastro> I take it there's no bug for this yet?
[19:23] <DBO> simply reporting the bug to me wont get it fixed :P
[19:23] <DBO> i need your help
[19:23] <DBO> see you can reproduce the problem
[19:23] <jcastro> every time
[19:23] <DBO> also I want you to know you have no fun games
[19:23] <DBO> (off topic I know)
[19:23] <jcastro> yeah, we can do some cheap xbl stuff though
[19:23] <DBO> fair enough
[19:23] <jcastro> ok so I'll file a bug and start documenting
[19:24] <DBO> what version of unity do you have?
[19:24] <jcastro> just updated today, whatever's in natty
[19:24] <kenvandine> jcastro, that's good stuff man
[19:25] <DBO> tedg, my date time indicator is now just a time indicator
[19:25] <DBO> I am annoyed
[19:25] <DBO> how do I fix this?
[19:26] <kenvandine> gsettings
[19:26] <DBO> gsettings has no gui kenvandine
[19:26] <DBO> NO GUI
[19:26] <kenvandine> one sec
[19:26] <tedg> DBO, dconf-editor
[19:26] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/17226/how-do-i-show-the-date-in-the-clock-indicator
[19:27] <tedg> DBO, In dconf-tools
[19:27] <jcastro> DBO: see that link
[19:27] <jcastro> and then give the guy some upboats
[19:27] <kenvandine> gsettings set com.canonical.indicator.datetime show-date true
[19:28] <kenvandine> DBO, ^^
[19:28] <tedg> Yeah, jcastro can you edit that for natty?
[19:28] <DBO> it already is true
[19:28] <tedg> That worked for Lucid, but in Natty it needs to be "com.canonical"
[19:28] <DBO> its still just a time indicator
[19:28] <kenvandine> DBO, use my command
[19:28] <kenvandine> if that doesn't work, there is a bug and it is tedg's fault
[19:28] <kenvandine> :-D
[19:29] <jcastro> tedg: I certainly can
[19:29] <DBO> kenvandine, +2 internets!
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i must say, i like having the date on my panel. yes
[19:31]  * kenvandine doesn't
[19:31] <bcurtiswx> most mornings I wake up and don't know what day it is until i check my phone or my computer.. lol
[19:31] <jcastro> tedg: for 10.10 it's still org.ayatana I assume?
[19:31] <DBO> bcurtiswx, totally agree
[19:32] <DBO> "what is today's date" is a very common question to hear from me
[19:32] <kenvandine> jcastro, no it is com.canonical
[19:32] <kenvandine> oh
[19:32] <kenvandine> for 10.10
[19:32] <kenvandine> yes
[19:32] <kenvandine> org.ayatana
[19:32] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/17226/how-do-i-show-the-date-in-the-clock-indicator
[19:32] <tedg> jcastro, correct
[19:32] <jcastro> we're all set now
[19:32] <kenvandine> we should make sure all the indicators are using that new name
[19:33]  * kenvandine knows some aren't
[19:33]  * kenvandine will do that
[19:33]  * tedg thinks kenvandine should talk to himself more often
[19:33] <kenvandine> tedg, done with releases for today?
[19:33] <spikeb> spikeb, kenvandine here had an interesting idea.
[19:33] <tedg> kenvandine, yup
[19:34] <kenvandine> tedg, great
[19:34] <DBO> hehe
[19:34] <DBO> the girlfriend is playing deadspace
[19:34] <DBO> its awesome to watch
[19:38] <jcastro> DBO: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/717364
[19:39] <DBO> jcastro, you dont have to make up bugs to get my attention :)
[19:41] <bcurtiswx> brb
[19:43] <jcastro> DBO: I like to be ignored just like everyone else!
[19:44] <bcurtiswx_> back
[19:52] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, if you want to push the empathy fixes, go ahead :)
[19:52] <kenvandine> push?
[19:52] <kenvandine> did you get it fixed?
[19:59] <nmarques> guys one tiny question
[20:00] <nmarques> on the application menu indicator, for example if we opne empathy it displays the correct menu, if we close it and re-open it through the indicator-messages, it does no longer displays the menu... does this also happens on Ubuntu ?
[20:06] <kenvandine> nmarques, not happening for me
[20:09] <nmarques> kenvandine, ;(
[20:12] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, it works for new IM's
[20:13] <tedg> nmarques, Yes, it happens for me... have to blame mterry for that one... I know why :)
[20:28] <nmarques> tedg, anyway I can fix it ? :)
[20:40] <tedg> nmarques, Yeah, I probably wont' get to it today though.
[20:41] <nmarques> tedg, I'll wait, no worries with that
[20:41] <nmarques> tedg, I still have a lot to do on compiz for unity :(
[20:57] <lamalex> we have so many incomplete bugs I have volunteered to triage
[20:57] <lamalex> fml
[20:58] <lamalex> So part of the problem is that thunderbird is a giant piece of crap for filtering these launchpad headers.
[20:58] <tedg> lamalex, Yes, you'll probably need procmail.
[20:59] <tedg> lamalex, I had to break down and set that up.  It's the only way.
[20:59] <lamalex> UGH
[20:59] <lamalex> If I slam my head into the corner of a wall because of bug triaging, do I get workers comp?
[21:00] <tedg> lamalex, No, but slamming your head into GL surfaces does count ;)
[21:00] <lamalex> haha
[21:00] <lamalex> Ok I'll just paint some polygons onto it
[21:00] <lamalex> who will know the difference
[21:28] <nattylivetest-1> greetings
[21:33] <nattylivetest-1> testdriving, natty alpha 2 and something hit me just now: I was instinctively reaching for the top left menu button while having FF4 in full screen, which made the side bar slide in, so I could reach for the desktop switcher... that might sound like "working as intended" for you, but it's my first taste of Unity 3d, yet that felt natural, so kudos to the people involved
[21:33] <nattylivetest-1> BUT
[21:33] <nattylivetest-1> (if anyone's listening?)
[21:37] <lamalex> DEEBS
[21:37] <lamalex> nattylivetest-1, i am listening
[21:39] <nattylivetest-1> lamalex: great! are you part of the Unity team?
[21:39] <lamalex> yes
[21:39] <nattylivetest-1> even better
[21:39] <lamalex> so is DBO and the launcher is his baby
[21:39] <nattylivetest-1> ok :)
[21:39] <lamalex> his ugly ugly baby
[21:39] <nattylivetest-1> hmm hang on
[21:40] <DBO> ugly?
[21:40] <DBO> nobody has ever made a more integrated launcher
[21:40] <DBO> ever
[21:40] <PsynoKhi0> anyway.... ;)
[21:41] <lamalex> yah but it never stops crying
[21:42] <PsynoKhi0> so I thought it was great that it felt natural to me (though I had to first get a fullscreen app up to see the trick)
[21:42] <lamalex> how old is it? and it still uses a bottle?
[21:42] <DBO> its like 6 months
[21:42] <DBO> so yeah
[21:42] <DBO> bottle fed still
[21:42] <DBO> i love when you stop a build halfway through
[21:42] <DBO> and then your terminal text is purple until you start another build
[21:43] <lamalex> haha that doesn't happen to me
[21:43] <DBO> it does if you exit while the text is purple
[21:44] <DBO> back
[21:45] <PsynoKhi0> though how about brand new users? I'm going through the docs on Canonical's website, though it doesn't look like anything's in place to make first time users comfortable with the UI... You know something that would answer an e.g. windows user's "now what?" once the Unity desktop shows up
[21:46] <PsynoKhi0> well, anyone who has or hasn't past experience with desktop UIs for that matter
[21:48] <lamalex> uh, there are like a total of 5 people who haven't used a computer before who will come into contact with unity
[21:48] <lamalex> and for them it will be the first time
[21:48] <lamalex> so it won't matter theyll be a blank slate
[21:50] <PsynoKhi1> compiz crashed :(
[21:51] <lamalex> PsynoKhi1, so the thing about docs is that right now it's pointless
[21:51] <lamalex> things are changing so much
[21:51] <lamalex> that behavior will be different, look, etc
[21:52] <lamalex> sometime after feature freeze we will have docs for how to use and stuff
[21:52] <PsynoKhi1> erm ok though I meant: anyone working on e.g. first steps onscreen help thingy?
[21:53] <PsynoKhi1> FSOHT is a kickbutt acronym acutally....
[21:53] <PsynoKhi1> actually even
[21:54] <lamalex> PsynoKhi1, uh i don't actually know
[21:54] <PsynoKhi1> ah
[21:54] <lamalex> that would be a /great/ contribution though
[21:54] <lamalex> if you want to help out
[21:56] <PsynoKhi1> any little step that helps me get closer to the point where I can walk into a computer shop of my choice, and get out with a lappy of my choice with the OS of my choice on it, I'd gladly help, and since I think that NOT freaking out new users with an alien UI should increase mainstream adoption... sure thing!
[21:58] <PsynoKhi1> can't code for the life of me though, I can setup a design draft if that's enough for now?
[21:58] <lamalex> well docs are not code
[21:58] <lamalex> docs are just writing
[21:58] <lamalex> so if you're literate, you can help ;)
[21:58] <lamalex> njpatel, DBO, jcastro, do we have a user documentation plan?
[21:58] <lamalex> are we going to go the yelp route?
[21:59] <lamalex> mallard or whatever it's called
[21:59] <DBO> i think that would be ideal
[21:59] <jcastro> no clue
[21:59] <PsynoKhi1> leetureight I am
[22:02] <PsynoKhi0> brb
[22:06] <lamalex> Who here is running unity. Can you try and reproduce this https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692823
[22:10] <jcastro> i've logged in like 4 times today and haven't had that
[22:10] <jcastro> htorque: how about you?
[22:11] <PsynoKhi0> lamalex: does submitting a suggestion about an UI help system risk hurting a few egos though? I mean, that's kind of like admitting the UI isn't intuitive enough....
[22:12] <jcastro> lamalex: do you see this by any chance? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/717364
[22:12] <lamalex> PsynoKhi0, well maybe I don't understand what you're suggesting
[22:13] <lamalex> it sounded like you had no problems and Unity behaved as you'd expected without you even knowing how it was going to behave
[22:13] <jcastro> PsynoKhi0: what I recommend is around freeze time we'll  likely be asking for people to help document stuff
[22:13] <jcastro> that would be the ideal time to jump in
[22:14] <jcastro> PsynoKhi0: For example we could use some help documenting keyboard shortcuts as a start: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[22:17] <lamalex> PsynoKhi0, in the mean time if there are pieces of the ui where you think the interaction needs improvement, file a bug
[22:17] <lamalex> you don't have to have the fix
[22:17] <PsynoKhi0> erm there are keyboard shortcuts? o.O got no run menu with alt+F2 so I thought "screw this" heh
[22:19] <lamalex> i was trying to figure out why those weren't working and realized I wasn't using unity
[22:21] <PsynoKhi0> ok here's the thing: I burned natty alpha 2 on a CD to run a live session, so I could get a feeling of how Unity worked, and to see if there was any on-screen hints I thought a person with no previous experience of Ubuntu might find useful to learn their way around the UI
[22:21]  * spikeb nods and listens
[22:22] <PsynoKhi0> though you might every well be expecting 1. the UI to be intuitive enough (which by all means would be the best one could wish for) 2. the user to adopt a hit-and-miss approach (which IMO won't cut it for the masses of - pardon my cynism)
[22:23] <PsynoKhi0> masses of Joe Sixpack*
[22:25] <PsynoKhi0> hmm does Canonical still aims at hitting big on the consumer desktop/handled market?
[22:25] <PsynoKhi0> aim*
[22:26] <spikeb> with all the ranting about user experience, I would guess yes.
[22:28] <PsynoKhi0> are Ubuntu devices on the shelves of large consumer electronics retail store part of the equation?
[22:28] <PsynoKhi0> stores*
[22:28] <spikeb> I have no idea.
[22:35] <PsynoKhi0> ok... the reason I'm asking is a reference to how the first netbooks did quite hit big, I've never found much info as to WHY, MS was way too happy pulling out numbers on the return rate of Linux-based netbooks, though I suppose that no one ever bothered giving buyers a quick run-through of the device, Joe Sixpack went home, if he wasn't scared by the new UI he managed to somehow download an exe of his favorite program, which wouldn't
[22:35] <PsynoKhi0> run, end of the road - in other words: Joe Sixpack can't be bothered with hit-and-miss
[22:36] <PsynoKhi0> didn't quite hit big*
[22:36] <PsynoKhi0> literate indeed >.<
[22:45] <lamalex> tedg, are you around?
[23:18] <htorque> jcastro, sorry, was busy - no, haven't seen compiz crash in a while now
[23:27] <PsynoKhi0> compiz crashed for me, running natty alpha 2 LiveCD, radeon HD4670... I was trying to alt-tab to bring a terminal window to the foreground (it was hidden beinh fullscreen FF4)
[23:27] <PsynoKhi0> though that might have been solved in daily builds :)
[23:51] <lamalex> DBO, are you still here?