[18:15] <AlexTrial91> Good evening everybody, I'm french visual impered and I need you to use Ubuntu with speech or braille in text mode.
[18:16] <kinouchou> Hello AlexTrial91
[18:16] <AlexTrial91> I have install Ubuntu 10.10 today but my braille display aren't reconize...
[18:17] <AlexTrial91> I have liked test Emacs with speechd-el but when I launch emacs I don't know how launch speechd-el and BRLTTY, how do you do?
[19:30] <Wormo> hi, I'm looking for advice on configuring a system for a user with low mobility
[19:30] <Wormo> advice on using stuff like dasher or interfacing with an eye tracker would be of interest
[19:33] <Wormo> also info on practical use of brain-computer interface would be great
[19:37] <Pendulum> Wormo: what sort of advice are you looking for? I use dasher, but not with an eye tracker
[19:38] <Wormo> Can you set it up to handle the whole desktop?
[19:39] <Wormo> Pop up shells, send stuff to them, switch between an editor and a web browser, etc
[19:39] <Wormo> or you have to use menus to get it connected to various apps
[19:43] <Pendulum> I don't think there's a way to do that because it only has input for characters
[19:44] <Wormo> no ctrl/alt modifiers?
[19:44] <Wormo> for desktop shortcuts
[19:44] <Pendulum> not that I know of
[19:44] <Wormo> hm
[19:45] <Wormo> is there anything else out there that deals with not-so-accurate pointing devices
[19:45] <Wormo> dasher was the only one I've heard of
[19:45] <Pendulum> for that you might want to look at onboard which is the default onscreen keyboard
[19:45] <Pendulum> (in Ubuntu)
[19:45] <Wormo> I think he's gotten frustrated with onscreen keyboards
[19:46] <Pendulum> ah, okay
[19:46] <Wormo> and liked dasher when there was still some hand movement
[19:46] <Pendulum> yeah, I'm not sure if there's anything at all similar to Dasher that includes ctrl/alt type modifiers
[19:48] <Wormo> have you heard of any other projects focusing on low mobility needs?
[19:48] <Wormo> as in very low, not just stickykeys
[19:52] <Pendulum> not off the top of my head, sorry. I'd suggest either e-mailing the Ubuntu accessibility list or the Gnome one for a better list, but Dasher and the more traditional on screen keyboards are the only things I know of (obviously being used with mousetweaks)
[19:53] <Wormo> do you think it would be worth coming to an irc meeting to see if anyone else is trying to do this with ubuntu?
[19:54] <Pendulum> You could try, but I know out of the Ubuntu a11y team, I'm the person who comes to IRC meetings and has the most mobility impairment
[19:54] <Pendulum> by the way, can the person speak?
[19:54] <Wormo> a little still
[19:54] <Wormo> his family understands best
[19:54] <Pendulum> ah, okay. So probably not enough for voice recognition?
[19:55] <Wormo> sadly no
[19:55] <Pendulum> it's not ready yet, but we have some people working on a voice recognition navigation program, but it sounds like it wouldn't work for your needs :(
[19:55] <Wormo> I'm thinking brain wave is ultimately the way to go... 
[19:55] <Wormo> after all these years in the labs, still not much out here though
[19:56] <Pendulum> yeah
[19:56] <Wormo> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/08/07/21/1926251/NIA-Brain-Computer-Interface-Mind-Control-Gaming
[19:56] <JackyAlcine> Wormo: Such technology is heavily funded and work in Linux systems is a bit beyond us; perhaps only in universities.
[19:57] <JackyAlcine> The closest I can bring to this is perhaps facial recognition and retinal locking using a HD camera and a good computer, but even that wouldn't be perfect.
[19:57] <Wormo> Perfect no, but providing a pointer device would be very useful
[19:58] <Pendulum> Wormo: can the person use a switch device? I assume you've looked at the devices that mousetweaks supports?
[19:58] <Wormo> I suspect this NIA hardware might be good enough, except doubt they'll ever provide enough protocol docs
[19:59] <Wormo> He could right now, but maybe not next year due to ALS progression
[19:59] <Wormo> so goal is to get him trained on something that will continue to work
[19:59] <Pendulum> yeah
[20:00] <Wormo> he's a hotshot programmer so he'll be better able to cope than most
[20:05] <charlie-tca> dasher with all punctuation and symbols has CTRL in it
[20:05] <Wormo> hey thanks
[20:05] <Wormo> so it should be possible to control desktop programmed with hotkeys, yes?
[20:06] <Wormo> or problems because dasher loses focus?
[20:06] <charlie-tca> you have to play with the different languages available to find it, but yes, it will be there 
[20:06] <charlie-tca> dasher never lost focus for me
[20:07] <Wormo> great
[20:07] <Wormo> sounds like it can be main interface method then
[20:08] <Wormo> getting the input events from the eye tracker is my next problem then
[20:09] <Pendulum> Wormo: mousetweaks
[20:10] <Pendulum> and there's another program as well, let me find the name
[20:10] <Wormo> ok thanks
[20:11] <Wormo> mousetweaks generates clicks from staying in one place?
[20:11] <Pendulum> look at mousetweaks and mousetrap
[20:11] <Wormo> Ok cool
[20:12] <Pendulum> http://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap/
[20:13] <Pendulum> http://live.gnome.org/Mousetweaks/Home
[20:13] <Pendulum> both are in Ubuntu by default, I believe
[20:14] <Pendulum> and it's just a matter of turning them on
[20:14] <Wormo> in Lynx?
[20:15] <Pendulum> to turn them on, you'd need to use the Ubuntu Assistive Technology menu
[20:16] <Wormo> Thanks for all the help, I've got some stuff to play with now...
[21:08] <phillw> Pendulum: would you have any objections to my adding speechcontol and inferno onto your wiki area to state that they are sub groups?
[21:09] <Pendulum> phillw: I still don't know what Inferno is and I think SpeechControl is best listed as an accessibility project being worked on for Ubuntu than as a subgroup
[21:10] <phillw> Pendulum: the inferno project is for a talking / speech bot for IRC.
[21:11] <phillw> it will be be able to also to listen to words and post them.
[21:12] <phillw> Pendulum: do you have time for a PM?
[21:13] <Pendulum> yes
[21:40] <gpc> phillw Pendulum https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots scroll down to the bottom and look at the section on External log bots.
[21:40] <gpc> I assume Inferno isn't a log bot but the same basic rules would apply.
[21:42] <phillw> gpc: There has been a discussion to make inferno a plugin across various clients, which is the one I prefer the lads work on.
[21:42] <Pendulum> phillw: is it your project or someone else's project?
[21:42] <gpc> Ah ok. 
[21:43] <phillw> Pendulum: it belongs to speechcontrol, as a sub group.
[21:43] <gpc> phillw: so inferno would be a client for irc clients and won't actually post anything to channels unless told to?
[21:44] <gpc> errr plugin for irc clients
[21:44] <hajour> i prefer one i can use in many channels as possible 
[21:44] <hajour> its mend for helping people
[21:44] <Pendulum> hajour: a plug in would be better
[21:44] <Pendulum> a bot you'd need to get permission to put it into channels
[21:44] <hajour> can aplug in also be used in not irc channels?
[21:45] <Pendulum> a plug in you could run on your client and no one would even know it was there and it would work for all your channels
[21:45] <phillw> gpc: indeed it would not, the only option for using a bot is that it would have to be all rooms.
[21:45] <gpc> phillw: if it is a client side plugin then I don't see why the IRCC would object to it. provided it doesn't make noise in the channels.
[21:45] <phillw> hajour: I'm going to tell the 'boys' to make is a plugin.
[21:46] <hajour> first i would prefer a answer
[21:46] <hajour> phillw, ^
[21:47] <hajour> hajour> can aplug in also be used in not irc channels?
[21:47] <gpc> the rule about "no bots" is to prevent having bots that respond to commands and then post to the channel. the IRCC wants that to be controlled so that they can insure the info being given by the bot is valid.
[21:48] <phillw> gpc: I am not on line 24/7 and my server company are 100% against IRC stuff - So that does really does put me between a rock and hard place.
[21:48] <hajour> i not ask for rules i ask i can use it in not irc channels because new channels in begin are ##
[21:49] <phillw> hajour: we have testing rooms for bots.
[21:49] <gpc> hajour: the plugin would not care if it were #channel or ##channel
[21:49] <hajour> if i have a mentee and he begins a project i need to can use it in ## also
[21:49] <Pendulum> hajour: it depends on the IRC client you use. If it was a plug in for empathy, I would assume that it would work on other chat programs that empathy does
[21:50] <hajour> ok if its sure it can be used in ## also then it will be a plug in
[21:50] <gpc> phillw: so what inferno would do is listen for voice commands from the user and make them work in the client?
[21:50] <phillw> gpc: yes
[21:51] <gpc> sounds nice. let me know when you have a alpha/beta ready for testing on xchat
[21:51] <hajour> a new person need to be able to talk in channels everyone thats the coal
[21:51] <phillw> gpc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpeechControl/InfernoBot
[21:51] <gpc> I have no problem breaking my irc client for testing :)
[21:52] <phillw> gpc: we have testing channel for bots :)
[21:52] <gpc> cool, reading wiki now
[21:52] <hajour> glad the idea i dropped is not be unmeaning full anymore and can help others the bot idea
[21:53] <hajour> i think the team from infernobot can make it very well but it will need work
[21:55] <hajour> honest say i almost nothing have to tell to the sub team they are very creative in thinking about accessibility i  think
[21:55] <phillw> hajour: there is a lot of work to do to bring in projects that have withered and died,
[21:55] <hajour> and in trying to find solutions
[21:56] <hajour> well i think all of ubuntu do there best phillw
[21:57] <hajour> sometimes a spark can light up a big fire of enthusiasm
[21:58] <hajour> and that gives effect of giving it to others
[21:58] <hajour> phillw ^
[21:59] <hajour> hope said it good
[21:59] <phillw> hajour: why do you think I always wear my harressed look? Trying to ensure teams talk with each other and 4 padawans is quite a workload!
[21:59] <hajour> i not new how to describe it on a other way
[21:59] <Pendulum> phillw: maybe you should figure out your priorities and cut down on what you're doing?
[22:01] <phillw> hajour: between you and Pendulum you will prevail, my padawans are doing excellenty and there are couple of them up for election at the next UBT meeting.
[22:01] <phillw> Pendulum: I'm fine, I love it :)
[22:02] <hajour> Pendulum,  i help phillw with 2 of his padawans :)
[22:04] <hajour> also a few other mentors keep a eye on them
[22:07] <phillw> Pendulum: as you full well know, bringing accessibiltiy into UBT has been a quiet goal of mine. Teach the youngsters to code that way / understand it. Well Accessibility is still not an official Focus Group, but we are all accepted under the development FG :)
[22:38] <AlanBell> evening all
[22:42] <charlie-tca> Hello, AlanBell 
[22:43] <charlie-tca> I think I tossed your name around again, but if not, I tried :-)
[22:44] <AlanBell> :)
[23:07] <hajour> hai AlanBell :)
[23:11] <AlanBell> o/ hajour 
[23:53] <phillw> hiyas AlanBell Jacky was voted on by the UBT council, 
[23:56] <AlanBell> yay