[00:02] <rlameiro> ScottL: yea, [lsd] rocks, he is awesome with synths an stuff
[15:21] <ScottL> there seems to be a lot of excitement about mixbus, but i wonder how many from our community will buy it?
[15:23] <holstein> o/
[16:39] <ailo> ScottL: About possible outdated or unwanted packages in UbuntuStudio. Where could we list those up?
[16:40] <ailo> Right now I'm thinking of padevchooser and pavucontrol
[17:15] <ScottL> ailo,  i think avucontrol is still needed, isn't it?
[17:15] <ScottL> or maybe not
[17:16] <ScottL> i have had to use it but that was when i had onboard, SB, and delta 44 audio
[17:16] <ScottL> i would have to tell pulse to route audio to the sound blaster from youtube or rhythmbox or whatnot
[17:17] <ScottL> but that might have been just because i had 3 audio interfaces, which is not a typical use case i would imagine :P
[17:17] <ailo> ScottL: I haven't installed UbuntuStudio from DVD, so I don't have the original settings. I would think that there's no need for Pavucontrol since it only opens up "Sound Preferences" from the Volume control in the indicator area
[17:18] <ailo> And padevchooser is not starting at all
[17:18] <ailo> Both of those packages I think belong to an earlier version of PA
[17:21] <ailo> delta 44 is probably not working with PA. At least it didn't the last time I checked. I have delta-66 and delta-1010 (same chips), and they won't work with PA without some tweaking with config files
[20:10] <ailo> What's up rlameiro?
[20:10] <rlameiro> hey
[20:10] <rlameiro> just booted directly into irc :D
[20:10] <rlameiro> lol
[20:10] <rlameiro> it is a saved session on kxstudio :D
[20:11] <ailo> A Desktop session? What program do you use for that?
[20:11] <rlameiro> well, dont know
[20:11] <rlameiro> it just started Konversation
[20:11] <rlameiro> i assume it saved my last session
[20:12] <rlameiro> but i dont really get KDE so i am not sure
[20:13] <ailo> I always want to try KDE and I want to like it, but it never happens..
[20:13] <ailo> I think one thing I don't like is all the programs starting with K.
[20:13] <ailo> Shouldn't be a factor, but still
[20:33] <ailo> btw, I find that the latest -lowlatency is performing slightly less reliably than before.
[22:40] <persia> re: pavucontrol and friends: if they aren't working, we ought fix them.  The GNOME mixer presumes you want to use all your devices by default, but JACK users tend to have multiple, specialised, audio interfaces.
[22:41] <persia> Without these tools (or replacements), either the user must completely disable desktop sounds, or potentially end up with issues related to interface choice.
[22:42] <persia> The issue with the delta-* devices is due to the flexibility of the ICE1712 (and ICE1724) chipsets: the current drivers don't have enough information to be able to determine the mixing and select an appropriate channel map to feed JACK.
[22:42] <ailo> persia: I don't understand. I don't see any use for those tools. I have multiple sound cards.
[22:43] <ailo> persia: Yes, I've been told there needs to be some work done on the Alsa end to get those cards working with PA.
[22:43] <persia> The use case is wanting to not disable pulse when you run JACK when you have multiple cards, and not have the desktop sounds feed through something like pulseaudio-module-jack
[22:44] <ailo> persia: qjackctl disables PA, but not jackd. I can run jackd with one cards, while PA is still running on another card
[22:44] <persia> The issue is with ALSA, but more complicated: different interface makers map the ICE17xx cards sufficiently differently there isn't a sane default.  Needs investigation and quirking, and after that, still perhaps defaults to the less ideal place.
[22:45] <persia> ailo, Let me guess: you have one audio interface that is PCI or USB, and another that is firewire.
[22:45] <ailo> No, all either pci or builtin
[22:45] <persia> And they don't all get grabbed by pulse by default?  Is one ICE17xx-based?
[22:46] <ailo> hmm, let me do a quick test
[22:46] <persia> If you're running pulse, it *should* attempt to control and route to all your devices by default.
[22:46] <persia> pavucontrol and pavudevchooser are supposed to let you work around that.
[22:50] <ailo> persia: I just played a youtube video with a Soundblaster pci card while using jack and puredata with builtin HDA Intel
[22:51] <persia> With default settings: no special configuration for either of them?
[22:51] <ailo> No configurations made
[22:51] <persia> Hmm.  Well, maybe we don't need those anymore.  The rationale above is *why* they were there.
[22:52] <ailo> Also, jackd disables pulseaudio when using the same card (in Maverick jack would fail to start)
[22:52] <persia> Well, why they were still there.  They were originally there because pulse was kinda cool, and pulse simply didn't work for many years without them.
[22:52] <persia> Right.  The new jack/pulse negotiation in natty may make them no longer required.
[22:53] <ailo> Pulse has two programs in System menu: "Sound", and "Pulseaudio Preferences"
[22:53] <persia> Still nifty tools for doing things like slinging pulse over the network, etc., but that's separate.
[22:53] <persia> "Sound" is the GNOME Mixer, which also configures pulse.
[22:53] <persia> "Pulseaudio Preferences" is part of the same suite that provides pavucontrol.
[22:54] <ailo> Maybe that is the replacement?
[22:54] <persia> "replacement" isn't quite correct.
[22:55] <persia> But it may be enough.  Send a mail to the list asking for opinions, etc.  See if anyone has a critical use case for the PA UI suite that isn't handled in another way in natty.
[22:55] <ailo> It has network options and virtual outputs on all sound cards. I remember those features from before, but not where they used to be
[22:57] <ailo> If someone would have needed the padevchooser, I think someone would have mailed about it already. I'm not sure, but I think it wasn't working already in Lucid/Maverick. Somewhere around there.
[22:57] <ailo> I know I haven't needed to use it for a while. I'm also thankful that PA has stopped crashing as it always used to do ;)
[22:58] <ailo> Just works now.
[22:59] <persia> Sounds like it might not be needed anymore.  I just like to ask folk.
[23:00] <persia> I once tried to drop one of mixxx or terminatorx, and ended up with a long mail thread explaining, in detail, why they were different tools and both essential.