[04:22] <holstein> xyclo_: zyn clicks bad for me
[04:22] <holstein> yoshimi is the new fork
[04:22] <holstein> i dont get the clicks with it
[09:46] <Cptn_Sandwich> hello
[09:47] <Cptn_Sandwich> is there a sequencer for linux that does swing?
[09:47] <Cptn_Sandwich> like the one in hydrogen
[12:11] <xyclo_> holstein: I agree. It makes sense that Zyn is to blame after all I've tested. I'll go check yoshimi. As always, thanks.
[15:13] <Cptn_Sandwich> hello
[15:13] <Cptn_Sandwich> is there a way to sync jack to external midi?
[15:14] <Cptn_Sandwich> or to sync seq24 to external midi
[15:14] <holstein> Cptn_Sandwich: hey
[15:14] <holstein> sure
[15:14] <holstein> i havent done it
[15:15] <holstein> and ive only read about syning external with ardour
[15:15] <holstein> should be similar though
[15:15] <holstein> you should be able to select a clock source
[15:15] <holstein> and route in JACK
[15:16] <ailo> Cptn_Sandwich: All you need is a midi device. What do you have?
[15:16] <Cptn_Sandwich> i have a buddy with another computer
[15:17] <Cptn_Sandwich> we want to sync up via midi
[15:17] <holstein> i would look at netjack
[15:17] <ailo> Ah, sorry. Took me a couple of moments :)
[15:17] <holstein> or jacktrip
[15:18] <holstein> ailo: which is easier do you find?
[15:20] <ailo> Cptn_Sandwich: You want to sync over network, or just with a midi cord?
[15:20] <Phatsta> Hey everybody
[15:21] <ailo> holstein: I've never synced Linux machines, and never over the network either.
[15:21] <ailo> Here's the jack wiki on netjack http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/NetJack
[15:21] <Cptn_Sandwich> i tried network but the other guy is on linux
[15:21] <Cptn_Sandwich> we tried network
[15:22] <Cptn_Sandwich> it seems tricky to do in windows and im not sure i have my local jack configured right
[15:22] <ailo> Cptn_Sandwich: Maybe you could ask the guys at #jack. I've never used jack on Windows myself.
[15:22] <holstein> netjack is easy to use
[15:23] <holstein> in theory
[15:23] <holstein> i think jacktrip is easier
[15:23] <holstein> BUT harder to install
[15:23] <holstein> and im not sure about JACK for windows at all
[15:25] <Phatsta> a quick question if someone knows... I've got a MOTU firewire card. Would that work in Ubuntustudio?
[15:26] <Phatsta> I just found out about Ubuntustudio 10 minutes ago and it seems like the thing missing for ages.
[15:26] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: MOTU are astoundingly hostile to open-source
[15:26] <holstein> hits is where you look
[15:26] <holstein> http://www.ffado.org/?q=devicesupport/list
[15:26] <holstein> this*
[15:26] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: to the extent that they have threatened to sue people for even discussing developing open drivers for their card
[15:26] <holstein> actually
[15:26] <Phatsta> gordonjcp: too bad :/
[15:26] <holstein> http://www.ffado.org/?q=devicesupport/list&filter0=motu&filter1=&op2=OR
[15:27] <Phatsta> great stuff guys, thanks a bunch, I'll check the site out...
[15:28] <holstein> i make a point to contact motu and let them know im purchasing another companies product :)
[15:28] <holstein> and why
[15:28] <holstein> not that they care, but, we'll see
[15:28] <Phatsta> I wonder why someone would have anything against people writing open drivers for a card... I mean, they won't have to do any work.
[15:28] <gordonjcp> holstein: indeed
[15:28] <Phatsta> really stupid of them if you ask me
[15:28] <holstein> they have deals to protect
[15:28] <holstein> alliances
[15:29] <Phatsta> still stupid :)
[15:29] <Phatsta> hehe
[15:29] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: "ZOMG THEY ARE STEALING OUR PRECIOUS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY"
[15:29] <holstein> agreed
[15:29] <Cptn_Sandwich> holstein where can i find jacktrip?
[15:29] <Phatsta> gordonjcp: I only have one answer for all those "preserve intellectual" idiots: sharing is caring
[15:29] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: an interesting parallel is Creative Labs
[15:29] <holstein> http://code.google.com/p/jacktrip/ Cptn_Sandwich
[15:29] <Phatsta> yeah?
[15:30] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: who cracked down heavily on people distributing "patched" drivers for the SB Live! range of cards that opened up ASIO etc on Windows
[15:30] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: but at the same time distributed docs to Linux developers giving full access to all the features of the Emu 10k1 chip
[15:30] <Phatsta> I think it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that if a community goes together sharing their resources, everyone benefits. at least knowledge-wise
[15:30] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: cheap emu10k1 cards just had some links on the board to set the model ID; the actual ships were identical
[15:31] <gordonjcp> Phatsta: the drivers would ID the board and only give the appropriate capabilities
[15:31] <Phatsta> ridiculous...
[15:31] <gordonjcp> in Linux, it just ignores the board ID and if you try to drive an IO that hasn't got a DAC on it, that's your fault and no-one else's
[15:32] <gordonjcp> the reason being that they didn't want to buy a cheap version of the card for "pro" use, but anyone putting the effort into using it in Linux was probably not someone to annoy
[15:32] <Cptn_Sandwich> so i cant sync jack to a midi clock?
[15:33] <Phatsta> gordonjcp: hehe
[15:33] <Cptn_Sandwich> what are good sequencers that accept midi clocks? i think seq24 doesnt, but prove me wrong
[15:33] <holstein> Cptn_Sandwich: you can
[15:33] <holstein> but you dont need to
[15:33] <holstein> i dont think
[15:33] <Cptn_Sandwich> but i want to
[15:33] <Cptn_Sandwich> tell me how
[15:33] <ailo__> Cptn_Sandwich: It depends on the software you'll be using, if you can get the software to sync to an external midi clock (if you're just using a midi cord)
[15:34] <holstein> Cptn_Sandwich: there are a few seq24 guys over in #opensourcemusicians
[15:34] <Phatsta> gordonjcp: had I known about this 2 months ago I'd bought another card... sadly I thought I'd get everything to work in winxp and I kinda did but I'm not very happy with the results
[15:34] <holstein> IF you get jacktrip going
[15:34] <holstein> you have plenty of options
[15:35] <holstein> jacktrip or netjack
[15:36] <ailo__> Cptn_Sandwich: Seq24 does support external midi
[15:36] <ailo__> clock*
[15:36] <holstein> but it wont *need to
[15:36] <Cptn_Sandwich> ailo__, i know i can sync some software to midi clock
[15:36] <holstein> JACK'll sync
[15:37] <Phatsta> win has really f**ked up lately if you ask me... win7 / 2008 has so many "improvments" that it's barely usable. such a simple thing as repair install isn't possible - hence loads of trouble if you want to clone an installation to another system. it's simply not possible. so all of our customer built servers at work now goes out with vmware esxi in the bottom and vm's with 2008 on top
[15:37] <Cptn_Sandwich> dows jacktrip work with windows?
[15:38] <gordonjcp> seq24 emits midi clock
[15:38] <ailo__> Cptn_Sandwich: If you have midi devices to both computers, you can just connect a midi cord between them. Seq24 seems easy enough to set up. Question is what is sending the clock
[15:38] <holstein> i think http://netjack.sourceforge.net/ does
[15:39] <holstein> depending on the verion, netjack is probably just included in jack for windows
[16:09] <Phatsta> seems as if I'm going to have some trouble getting the card to work... I'm got 200 bucks here for anyone who can make the MOTU 8pre driver work... :)
[16:09] <Phatsta> I've got even
[16:12] <Phatsta> a stable one that is
[16:30] <ailo> Phatsta: I could try making your Windows look like Ubuntu...
[17:04] <Phatsta> ailo: ??
[17:04] <ailo> Phatsta: Your Motu would work, and it would at least seem like you were running on Linux
[17:05] <Phatsta> hehe it's not the looks I'm after...
[17:05] <Phatsta> I'd imagine that everything runs better on linux
[17:06] <Phatsta> and to say that the motu works in windows is really up for discussion...
[17:07] <ailo> Maybe you have a bad firewire chip?
[17:07] <Phatsta> I've tried two different fw cards, both brand new, of different models and makers, one pci and one pci-e
[17:08] <Phatsta> and sure it works... as long as you dont lay too much on it.
[17:09] <Phatsta> 1 guitar with software amp and 1 mic is ok, but anything over that and you'll hear glitches and such
[17:09] <ailo> I've heard that Ricoh is no good and that Texas Instruments is the preferred chip to use
[17:09] <Phatsta> hardware: xeon quad 2,2ghz, 8GB ram, raid-5 disk
[17:10] <Phatsta> hehe my main supplier at work is ricoh (printing systems though) so I'll tell'em ;)
[17:10] <Phatsta> not sure what chipset they've got
[17:11] <ailo> Check this out: http://www.ffado.org/?q=node/251
[17:12] <Phatsta> yeah thanks, I got that from gordonjcp
[17:12] <Phatsta> I'm just on my way to try it out
[17:13] <ailo> Try what out?
[17:13] <Phatsta> the ffado driver on ubuntu with the motu
[17:14] <ailo> The link I posted discusses the different firewire controller chips, and which are best
[17:14] <Phatsta> oh sorry... didn't read that
[17:14] <Phatsta> I get it
[17:14] <ailo> Yeah, I think ffado is the way to go.
[17:16] <Phatsta> yeah it seems to work... I believe you'd get better performance and less issues if you go ubuntu + ffado as long it's stable. I mean, have you ever worked with vst plugins in cubase on windows..?
[17:16] <Phatsta> you'll be 80 years old before you get the damn thing running
[17:16] <Phatsta> it crashes all the time no matter what you do
[17:17] <Phatsta> I'm simply sick of it. Linux computers are usually better all together as long as you know what you're doing
[17:24] <ailo> Phatsta: I had mostly good experiences from Windows actually, except I couldn't get as low latency as I get on Linux. I never used firewire, though. I choose to work with Linux for other reasons mainly. Took me some time to take the step fully, but now I can't imagine working with anything else.
[17:25] <Phatsta> not to make this my life story but I had an event ezbus with a decent computer previously. I never got that to work properly... If I used the asio4all driver it was OK as long as I didn't use guitarrig or any other vst plugin really. I had to use analog dists for everything. It kept bugging me so eventually I invested xxxxx money and bought myself server parts and built this computer I
[17:25] <Phatsta> now have, along with what I thought was a great sound card. what did I get but more trouble... I mean shit! I don't wanna go mac, but what else is there?
[17:26] <ailo> Linux has less support for audio devices, but there are good options on both firewire and pci I think. Don't know how many usb devices are fully supported. I haven't really taken the time to investigate how that works.
[17:26] <Phatsta> ailo: I know, we use linux for loads of stuff at work and I love it. too bad most business applications are based on win though. but for servers and such we always go linux
[17:28] <ailo> If you do decide to get a Mac, you can always install Linux on it later :)
[17:28] <Phatsta> haha yeah of course :)(
[17:28] <Phatsta> I wonder if you could install mac os x on just any pc
[17:29] <Phatsta> I mean they use xeon cpus in their newest macs
[17:29] <Phatsta> so the architecture must be compatible, and there are usually drivers available for mac
[17:30] <ailo> I don't know if you can put together the sum of parts that they support. What kind of motherboards do they use?
[17:31] <Phatsta> no idea... never had a mac pulled apart
[17:31] <Phatsta> but it must be googlable :)
[17:31] <ailo> I've been thinking about getting a firewire device, but I would probably go with focusrite
[17:32] <Phatsta> from the looks of it, they use intel there as well...
[17:32] <ailo> Fairly cheap, well supported on Linux and has a lot of nice features
[17:32] <ailo> Yeah, Mac changed to Intel, but I don't know if anything in there is custom made just for Mac
[17:33] <ailo> Probably not on processor, ram and GPU
[17:33] <ailo> Maybe some chips on the motherboard?
[17:33] <Phatsta> I'd say you'd probably do okay with that... I asked some studio friends of mine what to get... and they all recommended the motu card for a failry cheap but well enough system
[17:34] <Phatsta> bastards ;)
[17:34] <Phatsta> I wouldn't think so... intels way of doing things are quite the opposite, usually
[17:34] <Phatsta> I'm sure you'd be able to find alternate drivers in such case
[17:35] <Phatsta> doesn't hurt to try
[17:35] <Phatsta> and mac os x is based on suse linux last I heard
[17:36] <Phatsta> so why mac drivers won't work in ubuntu is beyond me
[17:36] <ailo> nah, I think OS X is based on a branch of Unix, and they have their own kernel
[17:36] <ailo> Linux is not really based on anything, except inspired by Minix
[17:36] <ailo> The kernel, that is
[17:38] <ailo> Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.png
[17:39] <Phatsta> well about 5 years ago I took a class in linux at the university and there we had suse linux 10.x something. and it actually said on the box that it was the foundation of os x
[17:39] <Phatsta> buht that was 5 years ago
[17:39] <Phatsta> things could have changed
[17:40] <Phatsta> whoaa... that's a messed up chart!
[17:40] <ailo> Maybe you're thinking of FreeBSD?
[17:40] <Phatsta> nah... sus linux :) I'm sure
[17:40] <ailo> "Mac OS X is based upon the Mach kernel.[12] Certain parts from FreeBSD's and NetBSD's implementation of Unix were incorporated in NeXTSTEP, the core of Mac OS X"
[17:40] <Phatsta> they had a retail box there
[17:41] <Phatsta> I hear you... and I can see that you're correct. don't know what the relations were but maybe they were minor I don't know
[17:42] <Phatsta> or maybe I read it wrong
[17:42] <Phatsta> or maybe apple bought suse?
[17:42] <Phatsta> not sure
[17:42] <Phatsta> nope that's novell..
[17:43] <Phatsta> I give up, I'm probably remembering incorrectly
[17:43] <ailo> Actually Microsoft was buying a lot of Novell patents recently, SUSE related I think
[17:43] <Phatsta> uh oh...
[17:43] <Phatsta> bye bye suse ;)(
[17:44] <ailo> I never tried SUSE, but I got the feeling it was closer to Microsoft in some technology
[17:44] <Phatsta> I think so too... they've got an enterprise version that I could imagine containing the novell tree standard
[17:44] <Phatsta> that'd be close to windows active directory
[17:45] <Phatsta> so they probably bought the competition
[17:51] <Phatsta> I just finished the install of ubuntustudio in my virtualbox... where are the sound production softwares?
[17:51] <Phatsta> all I've got is the sound recorder :/
[17:58] <S2Do> Phatsta: You might have forgot to tick that option during the installation. Install ubuntustudio-audio package in synaptic
[18:00] <Phatsta> no I'm sure I did... it asks you what package you want; video or audio or... whatever.
[18:00] <Phatsta> must have done something wrong though.
[18:02] <S2Do> ubuntustudio-audio will get you all the production software
[18:05] <Phatsta> could you install that from the dvd?
[18:08] <S2Do> it's in the repositories. Just open System-Administration-Synaptic Package Manager and search "ubuntustudio-audio", then right click on it and select install
[18:08] <Phatsta> perfect, thanks!
[18:08] <S2Do> or open a terminal and type: sudo apt-get update && apt-get install ubuntustudio-audio
[18:09] <Phatsta> hehe no terminal for me XD
[18:10] <Phatsta> I really tried to learn that one time, but I failed to see the point, at least then
[18:10] <Phatsta> you can do almost everything with the gui anyways :)
[18:11] <Phatsta> what can I say, I'm a gui guy ;)
[18:11] <S2Do> hehe, I know what you mean
[18:13] <holstein> Phatsta: what did motu say to your $200 dollar offer?
[18:14] <Phatsta> I didn't ask them... I'd think they'd only laugh in my face :D
[18:14] <Phatsta> I was thinking if someone here had programming skills :)
[18:15] <Phatsta> but I'll have to try the ffado driver first
[18:18] <Phatsta> hmm do I want to activate "realtime process activity" (translated)
[18:19] <Phatsta> guess I do
[18:23] <S2Do> that would only work if you chose the realtime option during installation
[18:24] <Phatsta> okay... well it doesn't matter right now, this is not the real install so to speak, this is just a virtual box for testing
[18:25] <Phatsta> when I'm at home and have some time over I'll install it on my studio pc
[18:26] <Phatsta> actually, I think I'm going to leave for home now... see you all!
[18:26] <S2Do> have fun :)