[11:59] <jussi> ok, so, are we all here? topyli elky tsimpson?
[11:59] <topyli> o/
[11:59] <elky> hi
[11:59] <tsimpson> |o
[11:59] <jussi> #startmeeting
[11:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 05:59. The chair is jussi.
[11:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:00] <topyli> welcome back to the grind elky :)
[12:00] <jussi> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[12:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[12:00] <jussi> No new bugs.
[12:00] <jussi> [topic] Last meetings action items
[12:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Last meetings action items
[12:01] <tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/January
[12:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/January
[12:01] <jussi> topyli: [ACTION] topyli to link from guidelines to shell policy
[12:01] <jussi> been done?
[12:01] <topyli> done
[12:01] <jussi> excellent, thats it then.
[12:02] <jussi> oh, assuming you did the report, which I see ;)
[12:02] <jussi> Right, so todays agenda is just Matt's one, is ikonia here?
[12:03] <elky> I pinged him a min ago, he seems detached.
[12:03] <jussi> Since his item is not really something we can discuss without him, I suggest we pass over it.
[12:04] <jussi> Also, I think we should remove it for now, he is welcome to add it again if he can make the meeting. Sound good?
[12:04] <topyli> in fact i would suggest remov... yeah
[12:04] <jussi> hehe
[12:04] <jussi> ok, so, anything else anyone has on their mind?
[12:04] <tsimpson> there is something I just remembered...
[12:05] <tsimpson> regarding enabling ubottu bug information in support channels
[12:05] <jussi> oh yes
[12:05] <jussi> Ive no problem with a trial in #u - seems fine in #k
[12:05] <tsimpson> it's currently enabled in #kubuntu and #xubuntu (iirc), with rather low traffic
[12:06] <tsimpson> how long would we trial it in #ubuntu for?
[12:06] <tsimpson> until the next meeting maybe?
[12:06] <jussi> tsimpson: sounds good.
[12:06] <topyli> two weeks is enough
[12:07] <jussi> right, so a qucik vote?
[12:07] <elky> We can always pull the plug before the meeting if it's painful.
[12:07] <topyli> i could do a similar chattiness review again like i did for #k and #x
[12:07] <jussi> topyli: perfect
[12:07] <tsimpson> yeah, obviously we'll need to keep an eye on it
[12:07] <elky> If we need to have a meeting to stop an issue in the channels then there's something wrong.
[12:08] <topyli> yes if it gets clearly disruptive it should be disabled before the time's up
[12:08] <jussi> [vote] Put ubottu bug parsing on in #ubuntu for trial until our next meeting.
[12:08] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Put ubottu bug parsing on in #ubuntu for trial until our next meeting..
[12:08] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[12:08] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[12:08] <jussi> +1
[12:08] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[12:08] <tsimpson> +1
[12:08] <MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[12:08] <knome> +1
[12:08] <MootBot> +1 received from knome. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[12:08] <topyli> +1
[12:08] <MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[12:09] <elky> +1
[12:09] <MootBot> +1 received from elky. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[12:09] <jussi> knome: just council votes in these meetings ;)
[12:09] <jussi> [endvote]
[12:09] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[12:09] <knome> ;)
[12:09] <tsimpson> knome: though others are welcome to comment :)
[12:09] <topyli> we have the option to turn it off if it's disruptive of course
[12:09] <jussi> topyli: of course.
[12:09] <tsimpson> jussi: I'll take that action then
[12:09] <jussi> [action] tsimpson to enable bug parsing in ubottu for #ubuntu
[12:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to enable bug parsing in ubottu for #ubuntu
[12:10] <tsimpson> ooh, I just remembered something else :)
[12:10] <jussi> [action] topyli to do stats for the trial ubottu period
[12:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to do stats for the trial ubottu period
[12:10] <topyli> we should announce it on the mailing list so ops can keep an eye on it
[12:10] <jussi> sure. elky want to do that?
[12:11] <elky> jussi, im unfamiliar with the k and x process, so probably best topyli does it.
[12:12] <tsimpson> elky: I think he meant the announcement to the list
[12:12] <jussi> thats right.
[12:12] <elky> tsimpson, then it'll be a one-liner of "We are going to enable bug information in #ubuntu." becauase I know nothing else.
[12:12] <jussi> elky: just need to say we decided to turn it on, watch and see what happens, and itll be reviewed at the nxt meeting
[12:13] <jussi> with the usual, please tell us if theres an issue.
[12:13] <jussi> [action] elky to send mail to the -irc list to inform ops about the change.
[12:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  elky to send mail to the -irc list to inform ops about the change.
[12:13] <jussi> anything else from peoples? if not, Ill get the usual post meeting stuff sorted.
[12:13] <tsimpson> the other thing I remembered is: should #ubuntu- "game" channels be allowed, I think it was niko who asked for wolfenstine(?)
[12:14] <jussi> tsimpson: wolfy
[12:14] <jussi> thats a good point.
[12:14] <elky> It may be a while too. I'm trying to move my mail to gmail and I don't trust it right now.
[12:14] <topyli> tsimpson: oh yes. i can't see why they should be in the namespace
[12:15] <topyli> elky: joys of imap upload eh :)
[12:15] <tsimpson> iirc, he wanted to setup 2 channels, but the issue was if it's allowed or not, and I could not give an answer
[12:15] <elky> topyli, well more the cleanup when it fails the first time.
[12:15] <topyli> ah
[12:16] <topyli> yes iirc the game needs two channels, one for the game and one for chat
[12:16] <jussi> I think we need to have a policy of somehting along the lines of that we accept channels that are for building or supporting ubuntu in some way.
[12:16] <elky> Apparently thunderbird doesn't much like being told to delete 40k mails in one hit.
[12:16] <tsimpson> the general (unwritten) policy that I gathered is that, if it's an LP team we generally allow channel creation
[12:17] <tsimpson> but that's not such a good policy to have, anyone can create a team
[12:17] <jussi> I think this needs some more thought - about what channels we accept into the namespace
[12:18] <tsimpson> and I just thought of another issue when we finish this one :D
[12:18] <topyli> yep. i joined the ubuntu-smokers team a while back. i haven't yet created a channel though :)
[12:19] <elky> RFC time?
[12:20] <topyli> draft needed first
[12:20] <jussi> I think the best thing is we have a think about this, perhaps jot down some thoughts, and come back to it next time. I can take an action to put down a few points.
[12:20] <jussi> [action] jussi to put down some thoughts on namespace limits.
[12:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi to put down some thoughts on namespace limits.
[12:20] <topyli> great
[12:20] <jussi> tsimpson: next?
[12:20] <tsimpson> dual-cloaks
[12:21] <jussi>  ahh, I thought we had this discussion? Do we not accept them now?
[12:21] <tsimpson> we have nothing saying we do/don't
[12:21] <elky> Is there a written policy about it?
[12:21] <jussi> right, I know we have given them in the past.
[12:22] <elky> We seem to be writing policies about every other thought process, why not this one too.
[12:22] <jussi> I dont have an issue, as long as the second cloak is not a group/name that stands against our CoC or so.
[12:22] <tsimpson> do we allow do we allow /*/ubuntu.member.*?
[12:22] <tsimpson> s/do we allow /
[12:23] <jussi> tsimpson: we have staff with that, though Ive not seen otherwise.
[12:24] <elky> tsimpson, it would break our member cloak access settings which is less of an issue with staff. We might want to chance our member cloak access settings to cater for that if they become numerous enough.
[12:24] <tsimpson> I know staff have them, but mostly because *!*@freenode/staff/* need to be on access lists
[12:24] <tsimpson> I'm wondering if we should just generally allow for anyone who wants it
[12:24] <tsimpson> (I think we should btw)
[12:25] <jussi> tsimpson: can you think of any issues from it?
[12:25] <jussi> Im not against it, Im just trying to see any reasons why not?
[12:25] <tsimpson> the only thing that would break, ask elky said, is our *!*@ubuntu/member/* channel access
[12:25] <elky> Which is something we can mitigate.
[12:25] <tsimpson> but that's not a huge issue, we can always just add *!*@*/ubuntu.member.*
[12:26] <jussi> I guess thats up to the person if they feel thats something they need.
[12:26] <elky> I think it's a worthwhile thing.
[12:27] <jussi> I wonder how that works with staff - do we then need to somehow reserve ubuntu.member from being used in cloaks? (right now we just have ubuntu/member/ )
[12:27] <jussi> [vote] Allow dual cloaks, with the possibility of */ubuntu.member
[12:27] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Allow dual cloaks, with the possibility of */ubuntu.member.
[12:27] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[12:27] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[12:27] <tsimpson> I'm pretty sure it already is reserved, but we can ask
[12:28] <tsimpson> +1
[12:28] <MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[12:28] <jussi> +1
[12:28] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[12:28] <elky> +1
[12:28] <MootBot> +1 received from elky. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[12:28] <jussi> topyli: ?
[12:28] <topyli> oh
[12:28] <topyli> +1
[12:28] <MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[12:28] <elky> One of the main reasons we've never been so enthusiastic about it is because when Nalioth was serving council, he was quite adamantly against it as he thought the cloaks that are handed out freely (and abused) would soil the ubuntu name.
[12:28] <jussi> [endvote]
[12:28] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[12:28] <tsimpson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks needs updating then
[12:28] <topyli> was reading scrollback, sorry
[12:29] <tsimpson> to reflect that there are more that 2 possible cloaks
[12:29] <jussi> right, so who wants the action for that?
[12:29]  * tsimpson will
[12:29] <jussi> [action] tsimpson to change wiki
[12:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to change wiki
[12:29] <jussi> and the email to inform people?
[12:29] <tsimpson> may as well do that at the same time
[12:30] <jussi> the email should probably go to the cloaked people at the same time - perhaps send it with the message this group lp feature?
[12:30] <persia> Please give suggested syntax for replacement masks in the email, to have some standardisation over channels.
[12:30] <jussi> [action] tsimpson tosend the mail regarding the cloaking change.
[12:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson tosend the mail regarding the cloaking change.
[12:31] <tsimpson> persia: I'll need to ask some staff if @*/ubuntu.member.* is reserved (which I think it is)
[12:31] <jussi> also, someone need to query staff about reserving that - if its not already. topyli, you want that?
[12:31] <jussi> heh
[12:32] <tsimpson> I'd guess that is is, as many other groups allow similar things
[12:32] <persia> tsimpson, Sure.  I just have a few channels to update to reflect it, and would rather use the same string as other folk :)
[12:32] <jussi> tsimpson: Ill action you for it, itll only take a sec, and then we have it recoded :)
[12:32] <topyli> jussi: tsimpson is on the roll, don't interrupt him :)
[12:32] <tsimpson> persia: I'll put examples in the email, and go on a wiki hunt
[12:32] <jussi> [action] tsimpson to query staff about the cloak details and reservations
[12:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to query staff about the cloak details and reservations
[12:33] <jussi> ok, anything else?
[12:33] <persia> tsimpson, Thanks
[12:33] <jussi> right then
[12:33] <jussi> #endmeeting
[12:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:33.
[12:34] <jussi> Ill do the clean up.
[12:35] <topyli> thanks all
[12:37] <nigelb> Meetings on sunday <3
[12:38] <persia> Meetings *early* on sunday get bonus points
[12:38] <knome> it's not *so* early... :)
[12:38] <elky> Meetings I can actually get to get extra bonus points.
[12:39] <persia> knome, You just explain that to the folk in UTC-11 (who will probably claim it's still saturday night)
[12:40] <knome> ;)
[12:40] <knome> they can tell that to the folks in UTC+bignumber
[12:41] <nigelb> persia: But it should be late Sunday or early Monday for you.
[12:42] <persia> nigelb, I'm only in +9, so not so bad.  One of the required attendees for the just past meeting is in +11, and there's plenty of +13 folks around (although not at this hour, usually)
[12:44] <nigelb> persia: Time zones are just painful.
[12:45] <persia> nigelb, Indeed.  We should all measure time in kiloseconds since epoch.
[12:46] <topyli> flat earth ftw
[12:51] <persia> topyli, Won't help, unless you have a static sun.  Constructs around central lighting with controls are better suited.
[12:51] <topyli> probably cheaper than fixing the solar system too
[12:52] <persia> Depends.  There's not much distinction between "fixing the solar system" and "creating a dyson sphere"
[12:54] <MrChrisDruif> Council meeting over?
[12:54] <vish> MrChrisDruif: the irc? yes
[12:55] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, the irc. Thanks vish :)
[12:55] <MrChrisDruif> Thought it would be at 14:00 CET
[12:55] <MrChrisDruif> Had it wrong in my head...
[12:56] <persia> CET is only UTC+1 at this time of year.
[12:56] <vish> i wonder how a mobius-strip-shaped earth would deal with timezones ;)
[12:57] <vish> it would be much more fun :D
[12:58] <persia> vish, If it's rotating about a static light source, it's not that different from what happens today.
[12:58] <MrChrisDruif> Mobius-strip?
[12:59] <MrChrisDruif> :P
[13:00] <vish> persia: yea, but i suspect we'd have a whole new list of species too.. (with all those light-depleted zones)  :)
[13:01] <persia> huh?  Nothing would stay light-deprived.  Anyway, this isn't the place for that discussion.
[13:02] <MrChrisDruif> -offtopic?
[13:02] <persia> Indeed.
[13:06] <vish> iirc, we used to auto-update the topic of this channel for the upcoming meetings right..? if so, why did we stop that?
[13:07] <persia> vish, Because the fridge changed to Google Calendar, and the version of iCal offered by Google Calendar is incompatible with the SupyBot iCal reader for recurring events.
[13:08] <vish> aw.. :(
[13:08] <persia> Please fix :)
[13:09] <vish> ;p  if i knew about supybots i would try..
[13:10] <tsimpson> if you know python, you can try
[15:28] <gpc> -1 to voting on stuff when A) You aren't on the council and B) not in the channel it affects.
[15:40] <mhall119> cdbs: did you need me for something?