[05:08] <Lomion> I have heard that Unity is not released under the GPL.
[05:08] <Lomion> Does this mean that Ubuntu is becoming less free?
[05:08] <holstein> hey Lomion 
[05:08] <Lomion> hi
[05:09] <holstein> ubuntustudio is not planning on adopting unity anytime soon
[05:09] <holstein> lets not go on what we've 'heard' though
[05:10] <holstein> let me see if i can dig up the license on unity
[05:10] <Lomion> I'm doing the same.
[05:10] <holstein> ubuntu is not really an exclusive 'open source' project though
[05:10] <ailo_at> Unity is subject to Canonical's contributor agreement, requiring contributors to assign copyright to Canonical, and potentially allowing Canonical to release it under a different license
[05:10] <ailo_at> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28desktop_environment%29
[05:11] <holstein> free as in you dont have to pay for it
[05:11] <ailo_at> This is the license, I believe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical%27s_contributor_agreement
[05:11] <ailo_at> Ever heard of open core? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_core
[05:12] <holstein> not yet
[05:12]  * holstein looking
[05:13] <ailo_at> Seems like MySQL has a similar license
[05:13] <holstein> ubuntu never really set out to be 'free'
[05:14] <Lomion> That's what I thought. I don't like that Canonical can claim ownership of contributed code.
[05:14] <holstein> just a viable desktop platform
[05:14] <holstein> eh, you can choose not to contribute to that project
[05:14] <persia> Um, careful.
[05:14] <persia> Unity *is* GPL.
[05:15] <holstein> im ok with it as long as its not hidden
[05:15] <persia> But upstream doesn't accept patches unless someone signs an agreement.
[05:15] <persia> OpenOffice used to do that, and now there is LibreOffice.
[05:15] <persia> No idea if that will happen with Unity, but don't fear it just because of that, unless you have a patch that you don't want to give to upstream, and can't get applied any other way.
[05:16] <holstein> persia: you think this is more for quality control?
[05:16] <persia> I don't speculate as to why upstream has that condition.
[05:16] <persia> But I don't think it's appropriate to claim that it's not GPL when it is.
[05:16] <holstein> hehe, thats a safe answer :)
[05:17] <Lomion> persia: exactly.
[05:18] <persia> Lomion, And to address your other concern: Ubuntu isn't any less free, nor is it likely to get that way (if nothing else, it would break commitments to mirror providers).
[05:18] <persia> That it may be slightly more difficult to send patches upstream for some packages is also nothing new: we've been dealing with that with firefox for a long time, and have similar issues with other packages.
[05:19] <Lomion> I've been reading 
[05:20] <Lomion> That's true. I've been reading a lot about Canonical's contributor agreement, and also about their eventual adoption of Wayland, which is also not released under GPL.
[05:21] <Lomion> I'm starting to question how free Ubuntu will be in the future.
[05:21] <holstein> yeah?
[05:21] <holstein> you mean, cost?
[05:21] <persia> There's *heaps* of software in Ubuntu not under the GPL.
[05:21] <holstein> or 'free' ?
[05:21] <Lomion> I mean 'free'
[05:21] <persia> But everything meets the Ubuntu free software guidelines.
[05:21] <holstein> yeah, i dont think it will get more or less free
[05:21] <persia> Don't fuss about titles.
[05:22] <holstein> the cost should stay the same
[05:22] <holstein> since the commercial efforts to make money are different than selling it
[05:22] <holstein> with the software store and ubuntone
[05:22] <persia> From what I see, Wayland used to be under the MIT license (as is the xorg stack we use today), and may be moving to LGPL.
[05:23] <persia> Nothing there to fear.
[05:23] <persia> holstein, Lots of folk sell Ubuntu: nothing prevents that (and, in fact, if any software is licensed in a way that limits sales, it is considered non-free)
[05:24] <Lomion> persia: really?
[05:24] <persia> Lomion, Yes.
[05:25] <holstein> persia: ture
[05:25] <holstein> true*
[05:25] <Lomion> I thought only the media (CD, usb drive, etc) that contain Ubuntu could be sold...not the actual software.
[05:25] <persia> Lomion, The "Wayland is no longer GPL" noise seems to come from a change to some of the utilities from GPL to LGPL.  Nothing to concern most folk.
[05:25] <persia> No, all the software can be sold.  Mind you, lots of people give it away free, so one has to have an edge to be able to sell it.
[05:26] <persia> I bought a copy of Ubuntu on one of my laptops.  I know a company that charges 15 USD to install it on a server if you get one from them (you can install it yourself for nothing, but some folk like convenience).
[05:26] <Lomion> persia, I didn't realize. I thought it was still under the MIT license.
[05:27] <persia> Lomion, I might be entirely wrong about Wayland: the sum of my knowledge is based on http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODgxNQ
[05:27] <persia> But I very much doubt there is anything to be concerned about, and I'm very sure that Ubuntu isn't going to get less free.
[05:28] <persia> Oh, regarding selling Ubuntu: there's a trademark restriction: you can only sell Ubuntu if you don't change it: if you change it, you have to call it something else, or get permission from Canonical.
[05:28] <Lomion> That makes sense.
[05:28] <persia> Most folk work around that by applying patches as part of Ubuntu before it releases, so it doesn't matter much if one is cooperative.
[05:29] <persia> Yeah: it's a quality control thing: nobody wants someone to claim they are giving away "Ubuntu" and have it be something else.
[05:30] <Lomion> I just tested 11.04 this evening...quite impressive. I don't like Unity so far, but there's still an option to use the traditional gnome desktop.
[05:31] <persia> Studio will default to the traditional desktop for 11.04
[05:31] <persia> Plus, there's Kubuntu or Xubuntu, if you want something different.
[05:31] <Lomion> True. I havn't used KDE since 4.0 was released, but I think it's got a lot better since then.
[05:37] <persia> Oh, regarding "only the media can be sold": in the case where someone is requesting the source code for Ubuntu, and doesn't want to download it, it is permitted to charge for the media, but not for the source code.
[05:37] <persia> Basically, if you give/sell someone the software, you can't withhold the source: required for freedom, but doesn't block sales of the software in the first place.
[20:46] <ailo_at> Well, after recent comments on the jack mail list, I am once again of the opinion that we should not have memlock unlimited.
[21:54] <holstein> ailo: doesnt need to be unlimited right?
[21:55] <ailo> holstein: No. In the original UbuntuStudio controls you can choose the amoung in percents.
[21:55] <ailo> amount*
[21:55] <holstein> im with you ailo 
[21:56] <holstein> i know you've been doing research and testing
[21:56] <ailo> Not so much on this subject. I've never had any problems to my knowledge, but it seems some people have had.
[21:56] <ailo> Hard to say sometimes what a crash is about
[21:57] <ailo> Especially when one doesn't care too find out ::)
[21:57] <holstein> yeah
[21:57] <holstein> or just not sure how to find out
[21:57] <holstein> tracking these errors down can be a lot of work
[21:58] <holstein> needs to be done though
[21:58] <ailo> I guess it would be a good practice to learn what logs to look inside and ask others about the crash if it's hard to figure out
[21:58] <holstein> ailo: app crashes?
[21:59] <holstein> or jack crashes?
[21:59] <holstein> im pretty sure i havent had any issues
[21:59] <holstein> i used to follow the 64studio settings though
[21:59] <holstein> which were not unlimited
[21:59] <ailo> I've had some system freezes that very well could have been caused by something like the memlock thing
[22:00] <holstein> ailo: what are you setting memlock at now?
[22:00] <ailo> I have the standard settings created when installing jack
[22:01] <ailo> It's been a while since I had a total system freeze
[22:01] <ailo> Probably a year ago
[22:01] <ailo> Or more
[22:01] <holstein> yeah
[22:01] <holstein> i havent seen that since some other machine
[22:01] <holstein> years ago
[22:02] <ailo> It won't hurt to minimize the memlock to something like 75%, so I think we should change the default value to something like that.