[01:19] <kklimonda> hmm.. i'm slowly starting to loose my faith in the canonical ux team. First this: https://launchpad.net/ido and now they have removed the "Open a new window" from Unity launcher menu, because "you can open it using middle mouse click, just like tabs in browsers"
[01:19] <kklimonda> actually, this part of ido: http://www.twitvid.com/GNUXF
[01:48] <FloridaGuy> witch is a better kernel for 10.10....2.5.37.rc2...or i have natty's 2.6.28.rc4 installed to
[01:49] <FloridaGuy> opps 2.6.38.rc4
[05:03] <Spirits-Sight> has issue been fix about Nvida display?
[05:04] <pietro10> hm
[05:04] <pietro10> when I go to try 11.04 alpha, it asks me to remove cmake. why?
[05:04] <pietro10> (I'm using it for a project I help test)
[05:05] <pietro10> (and will help actually write code for later)
[08:07] <eruditehermit> I tried the natty daily and it was horribly broken. Is that really the current state?
[08:27] <qzio> pretty much yeah.
[08:28] <qzio> it's been working for me ever since the first alpha, but 2-3 days ago something happened...
[08:30] <eruditehermit> qzio, unity crashes frequently?
[08:30] <eruditehermit> when opening most apps?
[08:30] <eruditehermit> gnome shell looks better visually than unity imho
[08:33] <qzio> yeah. i don't even use unity. it's completely UNUSABLE for a desktop. and gnome(classic) crashes all the time, I was forced to use awesome wm instead.
[08:53] <eruditehermit> great
[13:28] <kklimonda> it works fine here
[13:29] <kklimonda> and I use it for my desktop
[13:29] <kklimonda> so meh, it's obviously a matter of preference
[13:29] <kklimonda> but I'm still running old X, with binary nvidia drivers.
[13:45] <yodog> !ops
[13:46] <yodog> !ops
[14:53] <qzio> kklimonda: matter of preference? it crashes with the default packages/settings.
[14:53] <qzio> and since it's almost randomly, it's hard to submit bug reports.
[14:54] <qzio> using unity, it's a pita to get more then one terminals.
[14:55] <kklimonda> qzio: well, I use it, it doesn't crash for me (with default settings and packages) and I have no problem with opening new terminal windows (but this is indeed made harder than it should be)
[14:56] <kklimonda> I'm not saying that it's bug free, but I like it so far - when I tried using it in 10.10 it was both buggy and slow
[14:57] <kklimonda> now it's less buggy, and much faster :)
[15:01] <qzio> good for you :) I'm sure it'll be awesome when released
[15:01] <qzio> How do you spawn more then one terminal in unity btw? I must create a new tab and then seperate that into a seperate window.
[15:03] <kklimonda> qzio: either ctrl+shift+n in gnome-terminal, or middle click on any launcher icon to open a new window.
[15:04] <qzio> ah, middle click. that figures. :)
[15:06] <kklimonda> completely indiscoverable
[15:10] <charlie-tca> we have a list of some of the shortcuts that work at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[15:11] <charlie-tca> We are trying to get as many as we can added, so it  becomes a one-stop page for them
[15:13] <kklimonda> charlie-tca: well, it's one thing to have a nifty keyboard, or keyboard+mouse combo to do stuff, and another thing to make this combo the only way of doing something.
[15:13] <kklimonda> "Open a new window" menu item has been removed from the context menu
[15:14] <charlie-tca> which is why we need help keeping those shortcuts up to date.
[15:15] <kklimonda> charlie-tca: I disagree - shortcuts should never be the only way of doing something (especially things as essential as opening new windows)
[15:15] <kklimonda> well, I agree that we need to keep the shortcuts page up to date
[15:15] <kklimonda> I disagree that it would be of any help in this case :)
[15:15] <charlie-tca> I don't remember ever saying they should be. But why can't we have something tells people what the shortcuts are that are useable?
[15:16] <kklimonda> right, my bad
[15:16] <charlie-tca> Note your own "completely undiscoverable" above?
[15:17] <gpc> is nvidia still broken?
[15:17] <bjsnider> yes it is
[15:17] <kklimonda> charlie-tca: my point is that if you need a cheat sheet to learn how to do basic things, then the ui is badly designed.
[15:17] <gpc> thanks bjsnider
[15:17] <gpc> I'll hold off on upgrading :)
[15:17] <charlie-tca> never said that wasn't true
[15:18] <charlie-tca> but to have to ask how to do something when it could be visible is also a bad thing
[15:18] <gpc> kklimonda: you and charlie-tca are arguing the same point here :)
[15:18] <kklimonda> yes, I've noticed ;)
[15:18] <gpc> I declare a tie
[15:18] <kklimonda> my bad - I should have phrase my point in a difrerent way.
[15:19] <charlie-tca> I just want to find those things easily. Sorry if I misunderstood you.
[15:19] <gpc> well until the UI is perfect (it will never be perfect) the shortcuts wiki is essential
[15:20] <charlie-tca> I agree with that, too
[15:20] <nemo> here's a fun bit of natty fail.  my desktop was semi-locked up
[15:20] <charlie-tca> kklimonda: by the way, thanks for fixing that shortcut
[15:20] <nemo> couldn't switch to apps, couldn't click on much but applets, so clicked on log out
[15:20] <bjsnider> gpc, we're just waiting for nvidia to release a new blob
[15:21] <nemo> on logout, as it closed apps, I saw that somewhere behind all the other apps was a dialog requesting password for my gpg key
[15:21] <gpc> bjsnider: that is the main reason I am still/back on 10.10
[15:21] <gpc> and haven't attempted to upgrade
[15:21] <nemo> oh well. not as bad as the unity plugin for compiz w/ its crashiness
[15:25] <Lynoure> It would be cool if gpodder got fixed so that it would work without the one gtk specific icon it crashes for not finding in KDE
[15:25] <Lynoure> Maybe that's something I should do... make blank icon in case of not found, or something
[16:37] <billybigrigger> BLZbubba,
[16:51] <BLZbubba> yo
[17:52] <bp0> the ubuntu 11 alpha has mac style menu bar at the top that all apps share.. does that need a specially built copy of the application?
[17:54] <arand> I would guess not, since the window manager takes care of those things, not the application, at least I think so
[17:56] <bp0> well some applications, like firefox don't use it
[17:56] <bp0> they have the regular menu in the window
[17:57] <arand> True, but firefox has always been a bit off when it comes to integrating into the system...
[17:58] <bp0> well thats what I mean, is there special work to be done for an app to integrate?
[17:58] <bp0> as there is for gnome-shell
[18:39] <Daekdroom> bp0, GTK+ apps usually integrate well, qt apps are supported too, altho I don't know if it's not buggy.
[18:39] <Daekdroom> bp0, anything that doesn't use GTK+ to render (i.e. firefox, libreoffice) will need some special work.
[18:41] <Daekdroom> and I don't know why, synaptic doesn't integrate with appmenu, and transmission doesn't work well with it. Two exceptions, despite being GTK apps
[18:54] <Daekdroom> Can anyone take a look at bug #718926 and tell if it affects them?
[19:26] <bp0> can the shared menubar be turned off?
[19:26] <bp0> or back to normal
[19:26] <bp0> weird that gimp goes to single windo finally only to have its menu removed ;)
[19:28] <bp0> Daekdroom, are ubuntu packages of those apps going to have the special work done?
[19:29] <Daekdroom> bp0, probably, or additional packages that will provide such support
[19:29] <Daekdroom> bp0, the shared menubar can be turned off if you use Classic Desktop, but not in Unity.
[19:30] <bp0> does unity handle, or use, the gnome3 action menu stuff?
[19:30] <bp0> well alright
[19:31] <Daekdroom> bp0, regarding the last question about gnome 3 action menu, I have no clue.
[19:31] <bp0> alright
[19:46] <BUGabundo> evening
[19:47] <bp0> Daekdroom, I can't get get alpha 2 to install, but.. i cant replicate your bug
[19:47] <bp0> transmission menu is always put back on top
[19:48] <bp0> in the live cd
[19:49] <bp0> oh wait, yeah i see it now
[20:00] <Daekdroom> bp0, thank you for answering
[20:03] <zonkers> will gnome 2.32 be available for 11.04?
[20:05] <Daekdroom> zonkers, you mean classic interface? (gnome-panel and nautilus)
[20:13] <zonkers> daekdroom, yeah
[20:14] <zonkers> not that I don't like unity but I need to keep the same interface to support mom, brother and others
[20:20] <NateWiebe> for some reason, the only icon themes available are gnome and the high contrast themes.. why?
[20:20] <NateWiebe> (the others are listed, but are not usable)
[20:21] <Daekdroom> zonkers, it is currently available, and I think it'll still be when it's released.
[20:22] <Daekdroom> zonkers, however, you'll have to manually edit the gnome panel for every user because it's different from 10.10's in order to look close (but not very similar) to unity
[20:38] <zonkers> daekdroom, ok thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it as I'm sure there will be tutorials for it.
[20:51] <hv> how can I change my default window manager?
[20:52] <BUGabundo> hv: in GDM
[20:52] <BUGabundo> in the bottom
[20:52] <hv> that is the session type
[20:53] <hv> it does not have window managers
[20:53] <hv> it just lets me pick between "classic desktop" and "desktop"
[20:53] <nemo> classic desktop then :)
[20:53] <BUGabundo> "classic" is GNOME
[20:54] <BUGabundo> while Desktop is Unity
[20:54] <zonkers> so classic is still available?
[20:54] <nemo> I'm back on classic/metacity personally
[20:54] <hv> ok, in a "classic desktop" session, how can I change the window manager to something other than compiz and metacity?
[20:54] <nemo> zonkers: thankfully
[20:54] <BUGabundo> im on classic
[20:54] <nemo> hv: foo --replace& ?
[20:55] <BUGabundo> compiz --replace
[20:55] <hv> nemo: I don't want to keep issueing that every time ;)
[20:55] <BUGabundo> or what he said
[20:55] <zonkers> nemo.  i can't use a computer without classic, i gave up kde for it.
[20:55] <nemo> hv: put it in your startup apps then
[20:55] <BUGabundo> it won't work
[20:55] <BUGabundo> at least doesn't for me
[20:55] <nemo> zonkers: eh. I had an open mind about unity, it was just too irritating to use
[20:55] <BUGabundo> fails to start
[20:55] <BUGabundo> plus Compiz effects are all buggy
[20:55] <hv> nemo: It will work, but it is not a good way.
[20:55] <BUGabundo> I lunch it when I *really* need it
[20:56] <hv> there used to be the gconf key /desktop/gnome/session/required_components
[20:56] <hv> but it seems deprecated
[20:56] <nemo> zonkers: also unity manages to take up *more* space than my nicely customised classic :)
[20:57] <nemo> zonkers: besides the crashing and misplaced windows and such
[20:57]  * hv hates compiz 0.9   compiz 0.8 was ok
[20:58] <hv> and I cannot touch compiz 0.9 anymore. they rewrote it in C++.  wtf!
[20:58] <nemo> hv: hm. that section seems to have a key called windowmanager
[20:58] <nemo> that is set to gnome-wm
[20:58] <nemo> which appears to be a script
[20:58] <nemo> hv: you could probably just replace that script with metacity or whatever
[20:58] <nemo> looks like the script checks some old gconf values...
[20:59] <nemo> hv: also looks like it accepts an env var called WINDOW_MANAGER
[20:59] <hv> nemo: gnome-wm is a desktop file (/usr/share/applications/gnome-wm.desktop), which launches the gnome-wm executable.
[20:59] <nemo> so you could set that instead of changing in gconf
[20:59] <nemo> hv: /usr/bin/gnome-wm
[20:59] <nemo> is what I'm reading
[20:59] <nemo> I assume the key /gnome/session/required-components/windowmanager = gnome-wm is invoking that...
[21:00] <hv> yes. the value for the key has to be a desktop file
[21:00] <nemo> ah.
[21:00] <nemo> hv: sooo, why not just set this env var. that seems clean-ish
[21:00] <hv> on further investigation /usr/bin/gnome-wm seems interesting ... /me reads it ...
[21:01] <nemo> hv: yeah var is mentioned right at top in comments
[21:01] <nemo> as is a gconf key. heh.
[21:01] <hv> oh, yeah. the comment at the top nails it.
[21:01] <hv> sorry!
[21:02] <nemo> I'd be inclined to use this except compiz is fairly usable now that I went into ccsm and disabled Unity and set "none" to windows to use shadows on
[21:02] <nemo> sooo, guess I'll leave my default WM as compiz
[21:02] <hv> aah, shadows behave VERY strange.
[21:03] <hv> they take up space, affect window placements, etc.
[21:03]  * hv wishes compiz behaves like openbox some day.
[21:07] <nemo> hv: aaaand, they lagged my windows horribly
[21:07] <nemo> hv: compiz without them is not quite as snappy as metacity, but at least usable
[21:07] <nemo> I'm willing to put up with a slight perf drop to get my guassian blur on translucent windows :)
[21:07] <nemo> gaussian even
[21:09]  * hv never liked the aero translucent window effect.
[21:12] <hv> I often switch between openbox and compiz. openbox has some very useful actions (like select the window to left of current one), that I terribly miss in compiz/metcity/mutter/etc., especially when there are tons of terminals on my desktop.
[21:14] <hv> (I miss the cosmetics, translucent terminals, Super+A, and Super+E in openbox)
[21:17] <nemo> hv: I like to have translucent terminals, is just fun to see the desktop through them
[21:17] <nemo> and sometimes there's stuff going on behind 'em that matters
[21:18] <nemo> hv: but without a gaussian blur, it distracts from the text too much
[21:18] <nemo> obviously it still distracts unless the opacity is reasonably low