[01:19] hmm.. i'm slowly starting to loose my faith in the canonical ux team. First this: https://launchpad.net/ido and now they have removed the "Open a new window" from Unity launcher menu, because "you can open it using middle mouse click, just like tabs in browsers" [01:19] actually, this part of ido: http://www.twitvid.com/GNUXF [01:48] witch is a better kernel for 10.10....2.5.37.rc2...or i have natty's 2.6.28.rc4 installed to [01:49] opps 2.6.38.rc4 === cmagina-afk is now known as cmagina [05:03] has issue been fix about Nvida display? [05:04] hm [05:04] when I go to try 11.04 alpha, it asks me to remove cmake. why? [05:04] (I'm using it for a project I help test) [05:05] (and will help actually write code for later) === 52AAAG5O2 is now known as el2ro_ [08:07] I tried the natty daily and it was horribly broken. Is that really the current state? [08:27] pretty much yeah. [08:28] it's been working for me ever since the first alpha, but 2-3 days ago something happened... [08:30] qzio, unity crashes frequently? [08:30] when opening most apps? [08:30] gnome shell looks better visually than unity imho [08:33] yeah. i don't even use unity. it's completely UNUSABLE for a desktop. and gnome(classic) crashes all the time, I was forced to use awesome wm instead. [08:53] great [13:28] it works fine here [13:29] and I use it for my desktop [13:29] so meh, it's obviously a matter of preference [13:29] but I'm still running old X, with binary nvidia drivers. [13:45] !ops [13:46] !ops [14:53] kklimonda: matter of preference? it crashes with the default packages/settings. [14:53] and since it's almost randomly, it's hard to submit bug reports. [14:54] using unity, it's a pita to get more then one terminals. [14:55] qzio: well, I use it, it doesn't crash for me (with default settings and packages) and I have no problem with opening new terminal windows (but this is indeed made harder than it should be) [14:56] I'm not saying that it's bug free, but I like it so far - when I tried using it in 10.10 it was both buggy and slow [14:57] now it's less buggy, and much faster :) === zniavre__ is now known as zniavre [15:01] good for you :) I'm sure it'll be awesome when released [15:01] How do you spawn more then one terminal in unity btw? I must create a new tab and then seperate that into a seperate window. [15:03] qzio: either ctrl+shift+n in gnome-terminal, or middle click on any launcher icon to open a new window. [15:04] ah, middle click. that figures. :) [15:06] completely indiscoverable [15:10] we have a list of some of the shortcuts that work at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts [15:11] We are trying to get as many as we can added, so it becomes a one-stop page for them [15:13] charlie-tca: well, it's one thing to have a nifty keyboard, or keyboard+mouse combo to do stuff, and another thing to make this combo the only way of doing something. [15:13] "Open a new window" menu item has been removed from the context menu [15:14] which is why we need help keeping those shortcuts up to date. [15:15] charlie-tca: I disagree - shortcuts should never be the only way of doing something (especially things as essential as opening new windows) [15:15] well, I agree that we need to keep the shortcuts page up to date [15:15] I disagree that it would be of any help in this case :) [15:15] I don't remember ever saying they should be. But why can't we have something tells people what the shortcuts are that are useable? [15:16] right, my bad [15:16] Note your own "completely undiscoverable" above? [15:17] is nvidia still broken? [15:17] yes it is [15:17] charlie-tca: my point is that if you need a cheat sheet to learn how to do basic things, then the ui is badly designed. [15:17] thanks bjsnider [15:17] I'll hold off on upgrading :) [15:17] never said that wasn't true [15:18] but to have to ask how to do something when it could be visible is also a bad thing [15:18] kklimonda: you and charlie-tca are arguing the same point here :) [15:18] yes, I've noticed ;) [15:18] I declare a tie [15:18] my bad - I should have phrase my point in a difrerent way. [15:19] I just want to find those things easily. Sorry if I misunderstood you. [15:19] well until the UI is perfect (it will never be perfect) the shortcuts wiki is essential [15:20] I agree with that, too [15:20] here's a fun bit of natty fail. my desktop was semi-locked up [15:20] kklimonda: by the way, thanks for fixing that shortcut [15:20] couldn't switch to apps, couldn't click on much but applets, so clicked on log out [15:20] gpc, we're just waiting for nvidia to release a new blob [15:21] on logout, as it closed apps, I saw that somewhere behind all the other apps was a dialog requesting password for my gpg key [15:21] bjsnider: that is the main reason I am still/back on 10.10 [15:21] and haven't attempted to upgrade [15:21] oh well. not as bad as the unity plugin for compiz w/ its crashiness [15:25] It would be cool if gpodder got fixed so that it would work without the one gtk specific icon it crashes for not finding in KDE [15:25] Maybe that's something I should do... make blank icon in case of not found, or something === Technovi1ing is now known as Technoviking [16:37] BLZbubba, [16:51] yo [17:52] the ubuntu 11 alpha has mac style menu bar at the top that all apps share.. does that need a specially built copy of the application? [17:54] I would guess not, since the window manager takes care of those things, not the application, at least I think so [17:56] well some applications, like firefox don't use it [17:56] they have the regular menu in the window [17:57] True, but firefox has always been a bit off when it comes to integrating into the system... [17:58] well thats what I mean, is there special work to be done for an app to integrate? [17:58] as there is for gnome-shell [18:39] bp0, GTK+ apps usually integrate well, qt apps are supported too, altho I don't know if it's not buggy. [18:39] bp0, anything that doesn't use GTK+ to render (i.e. firefox, libreoffice) will need some special work. [18:41] and I don't know why, synaptic doesn't integrate with appmenu, and transmission doesn't work well with it. Two exceptions, despite being GTK apps [18:54] Can anyone take a look at bug #718926 and tell if it affects them? [18:54] Launchpad bug 718926 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu) "Some apps don't integrate to appmenu after having their windows closed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718926 [19:26] can the shared menubar be turned off? [19:26] or back to normal [19:26] weird that gimp goes to single windo finally only to have its menu removed ;) [19:28] Daekdroom, are ubuntu packages of those apps going to have the special work done? [19:29] bp0, probably, or additional packages that will provide such support [19:29] bp0, the shared menubar can be turned off if you use Classic Desktop, but not in Unity. [19:30] does unity handle, or use, the gnome3 action menu stuff? [19:30] well alright [19:31] bp0, regarding the last question about gnome 3 action menu, I have no clue. [19:31] alright [19:46] evening [19:47] Daekdroom, I can't get get alpha 2 to install, but.. i cant replicate your bug [19:47] transmission menu is always put back on top [19:48] in the live cd [19:49] oh wait, yeah i see it now [20:00] bp0, thank you for answering [20:03] will gnome 2.32 be available for 11.04? [20:05] zonkers, you mean classic interface? (gnome-panel and nautilus) [20:13] daekdroom, yeah [20:14] not that I don't like unity but I need to keep the same interface to support mom, brother and others [20:20] for some reason, the only icon themes available are gnome and the high contrast themes.. why? [20:20] (the others are listed, but are not usable) [20:21] zonkers, it is currently available, and I think it'll still be when it's released. [20:22] zonkers, however, you'll have to manually edit the gnome panel for every user because it's different from 10.10's in order to look close (but not very similar) to unity [20:38] daekdroom, ok thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it as I'm sure there will be tutorials for it. [20:51] how can I change my default window manager? [20:52] hv: in GDM [20:52] in the bottom [20:52] that is the session type [20:53] it does not have window managers [20:53] it just lets me pick between "classic desktop" and "desktop" [20:53] classic desktop then :) [20:53] "classic" is GNOME [20:54] while Desktop is Unity [20:54] so classic is still available? [20:54] I'm back on classic/metacity personally [20:54] ok, in a "classic desktop" session, how can I change the window manager to something other than compiz and metacity? [20:54] zonkers: thankfully [20:54] im on classic [20:54] hv: foo --replace& ? [20:55] compiz --replace [20:55] nemo: I don't want to keep issueing that every time ;) [20:55] or what he said [20:55] nemo. i can't use a computer without classic, i gave up kde for it. [20:55] hv: put it in your startup apps then [20:55] it won't work [20:55] at least doesn't for me [20:55] zonkers: eh. I had an open mind about unity, it was just too irritating to use [20:55] fails to start [20:55] plus Compiz effects are all buggy [20:55] nemo: It will work, but it is not a good way. [20:55] I lunch it when I *really* need it [20:56] there used to be the gconf key /desktop/gnome/session/required_components [20:56] but it seems deprecated [20:56] zonkers: also unity manages to take up *more* space than my nicely customised classic :) [20:57] zonkers: besides the crashing and misplaced windows and such [20:57] * hv hates compiz 0.9 compiz 0.8 was ok [20:58] and I cannot touch compiz 0.9 anymore. they rewrote it in C++. wtf! [20:58] hv: hm. that section seems to have a key called windowmanager [20:58] that is set to gnome-wm [20:58] which appears to be a script [20:58] hv: you could probably just replace that script with metacity or whatever [20:58] looks like the script checks some old gconf values... [20:59] hv: also looks like it accepts an env var called WINDOW_MANAGER [20:59] nemo: gnome-wm is a desktop file (/usr/share/applications/gnome-wm.desktop), which launches the gnome-wm executable. [20:59] so you could set that instead of changing in gconf [20:59] hv: /usr/bin/gnome-wm [20:59] is what I'm reading [20:59] I assume the key /gnome/session/required-components/windowmanager = gnome-wm is invoking that... [21:00] yes. the value for the key has to be a desktop file [21:00] ah. [21:00] hv: sooo, why not just set this env var. that seems clean-ish [21:00] on further investigation /usr/bin/gnome-wm seems interesting ... /me reads it ... [21:01] hv: yeah var is mentioned right at top in comments [21:01] as is a gconf key. heh. [21:01] oh, yeah. the comment at the top nails it. [21:01] sorry! [21:02] I'd be inclined to use this except compiz is fairly usable now that I went into ccsm and disabled Unity and set "none" to windows to use shadows on [21:02] sooo, guess I'll leave my default WM as compiz [21:02] aah, shadows behave VERY strange. [21:03] they take up space, affect window placements, etc. [21:03] * hv wishes compiz behaves like openbox some day. [21:07] hv: aaaand, they lagged my windows horribly [21:07] hv: compiz without them is not quite as snappy as metacity, but at least usable [21:07] I'm willing to put up with a slight perf drop to get my guassian blur on translucent windows :) [21:07] gaussian even [21:09] * hv never liked the aero translucent window effect. [21:12] I often switch between openbox and compiz. openbox has some very useful actions (like select the window to left of current one), that I terribly miss in compiz/metcity/mutter/etc., especially when there are tons of terminals on my desktop. [21:14] (I miss the cosmetics, translucent terminals, Super+A, and Super+E in openbox) [21:17] hv: I like to have translucent terminals, is just fun to see the desktop through them [21:17] and sometimes there's stuff going on behind 'em that matters [21:18] hv: but without a gaussian blur, it distracts from the text too much [21:18] obviously it still distracts unless the opacity is reasonably low