erkan^charlie-tca, : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/71970500:05
ubot2Ubuntu bug 719705 in wine "Error: TactileView can not open" [Undecided,New]00:05
charlie-tcathanks, I will add a comment that I reproduced it00:06
erkan^My English is not good, I hope that I have wroten good explain what about problem I have with Wine, charlie-tca 00:08
charlie-tcaIt will be fine. I work with a lot of reports that are not in good english00:08
erkan^Cool (-:00:08
* charlie-tca does about 300 bug reports a month00:09
erkan^Last week age I am beginning with bug reports , UndiFineD had explained me how can I write with a bugs (-: charlie-tca 00:10
charlie-tcaYou are going to do fine00:11
UndiFineDerkan^ :)00:12
UndiFineDyour giving me too much credit00:12
charlie-tcaI have to take a break now00:14
erkan^what about credit ?00:14
TheMusoPendulum: Did you get my email?02:36
PendulumTheMuso: yeah. I only saw some proofreading type changes. Otherwise it looked good. 02:44
PendulumDO you want me to publish it?02:44
TheMusoPendulum: Yes, thats why I sent to you.02:44
TheMusosent it to you.02:44
Pendulumgreat :)02:44
TheMusofeel free to make sed changes.02:45
TheMusoI have my hands full with actually labeling the indicators atm. :)02:45
Pendulumhave fun with that :P02:45
TheMusoGood news though, all the system indicators are labeled, and have branches ready to go.02:45
TheMusoNow starting to tackle application indicators...02:45
TheMusoLike network-manager.02:45
maco2TheMuso: is this something i could help with?03:23
maco2TheMuso: it doesnt sound like something requiring in-depth knowledge of the codebase...03:24
TheMusomaco2: You could indeed, however it requires my changes to libappindicator to be merged, which they are not yet.03:24
* TheMuso is going to do his best to cover everything in main.03:25
TheMusoBut if you would like to have a look anyway, you can pull lp:~themuso/libappindicator/a11y-desc to see the API additions I have made.03:25
TheMusoPython and mono bindings also have these additions.03:26
maco2ok. i'll try to get my vm-capable laptop online this weekend and get a natty vm going03:29
TheMusoI thinhk such work could be considered as a bug fix, and new functionality, but not sure how the release team would judge that, I might run that by them.03:31
TheMusoand not new functionality.03:32
=== Cheri703_ is now known as Cheri703
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leoquanterkan^, je bent ook van harte in mwanzo hoor...:)15:30
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=== UndiFineD is now known as Guest83459
erkan^leoquant, over drie weken tog?18:25
leoquantde lessen ja18:26
leoquantmaar je/u mag gerust mwanzo op irc joinen18:26
leoquantals je dat wil he....18:26
leoquantje bent immers teamlid nu18:26
AlanBellleoquant: can you keep it in english here please as some people may be following with a screen reader18:27
erkan^nu ben ik daar (-:18:28
leoquantindeed and sorry AlanBell  and others18:28
erkan^you are right, AlanBell (-:18:28
erkan^I have seen a email that the meeting begin at 21.00 o'clock? Is 21.00 o'clock European or American time ?18:29
AlanBell21:00 is in 2 1/2 hours from now18:30
meetingologyAlanBell: Error: "now" is not a valid command.18:30
AlanBellah, ubottu can respond to @now and tell the time in UTC18:31
meetingologyleoquant: Error: "schedule" is not a valid command.18:31
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "time" is not a valid command.18:35
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "tijd" is not a valid command.18:35
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "utc" is not a valid command.18:35
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "UT" is not a valid command.18:35
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "UTC" is not a valid command.18:35
erkan^sorry for floods S18:35
JackyAlcineo.O lol18:40
AlanBellheh, only ubottu does that, meetingology just responds to anything with @18:49
Pendulummeeting in 10 minutes :)20:51
erkan^ohh, i go make a coffee (-: 20:52
JackyAlcineNow in 5. where's the agenda? o.O20:55
AlanBellin the /topic20:55
Pendulumyeah, even though the meeting has the wrong date in the /topic20:56
Pendulum(but it's right everywhere else)20:56
hajourhai all20:56
maco2is this the jonoful meeting?20:57
maco2or a regular one?20:57
* charlie-tca made it, apparently20:57
Pendulumhaven't set up the jono one yet20:57
PendulumI'm poking him about it on our call tomorrow20:57
hajouri hope i will stay here now.i was not able to come on chat in morning.its evening here now20:58
Pendulumright it's time21:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb 16 21:00:44 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.21:00
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.21:00
Pendulumagenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda21:01
Pendulum#topic Testing for Natty21:02
meetingologyTOPIC: Testing for Natty21:02
Pendulumcharlie-tca: can you give us an update on testing for Natty and links to where people can get information on how to test, etc?21:02
charlie-tcaWe have Natty Alpha3 coming in two weeks and need people to be testing the images21:03
charlie-tcaIf you have a virtual machine or a spare partition, you can download the images from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ and test them21:04
JackyAlcineAside from usual bugs and discrepancies, what are we looking for?21:04
charlie-tcaI will be posting the test case this weekend for a screen-reader installation, and will let everyone know where it is.21:04
charlie-tcaany bugs 21:05
leoquanti have tested xubuntu en ubuntu(gnome) via vm ware: was never able to send "crash" faillure reports21:05
charlie-tcaWe want to know that it will install, that you can use what is already there, and that you do not have to jump through loops to make it work21:05
leoquantit errors21:05
charlie-tcaThat too is a bug21:05
charlie-tcaYou can report those issues directly to launchpad using       ubuntu-bug ubiquity     in a terminal21:06
MrChrisDruifHai everyone21:07
leoquantthx charlie-tca 21:07
erkan^hi MrChrisDruif (-:21:07
charlie-tcaThe shortcut keys are listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts21:07
hajourhai MrChrisDruif :)21:07
charlie-tcaPlease update this as you discover more 21:07
charlie-tcaOkay, any other questions?21:07
MrChrisDruifcharlie-tca: Don't the devs give us the shortcut keys?21:07
PendulumMrChrisDruif: we wish :-/21:08
charlie-tcaWe do not want every person to have to go and ask someone what they are21:08
MrChrisDruifThat is working ass backwards <_<"21:08
charlie-tcaThe ones in the wiki are what we have been given so far21:09
PendulumMrChrisDruif: I think most of the list we've gotten from jcastro who has gotten them from the developers.21:09
JackyAlcineThat's a bit odd.21:09
hajourcant we ask then for to give the shortcut keys? 21:10
AlanBellthe answer is yes, the devs do give us shortcut keys, and we add them to the list21:10
charlie-tcaIt is a brand new interface, not all the shorcuts have even been defined21:10
AlanBellthey are not all written yet21:10
hajoura ok 21:10
Pendulumso someone here may notice them before we get the next list21:10
Pendulumalso, I'll be posting a blog post by TheMuso today which I think has a little more info about shortcut keys in terms of the indicator panel :)21:11
charlie-tcaWe have already one that was on the list, since it was taken out21:11
charlie-tcas/one/removed one21:11
TheMusoI know F10 to get to the panel is coming.21:12
MrChrisDruifTheMuso: Check the list, it's on there21:12
TheMusoI know.21:12
charlie-tcaThat's all from me21:13
PendulumAnyone else have any questions about testing?21:13
MrChrisDruifPendulum: None so far21:14
UndiFineDcharlie-tca: could you notice the testing channel when the isos are up ?21:14
charlie-tcaas in #ubuntu-testing?21:14
charlie-tcayes, they are usually announced there, but only during the actual ISO testing.21:15
charlie-tcaIt would be good to start testing these every day or two, if we can21:15
UndiFineDI actually meant a /notice :)21:15
* leoquant is doing something wrong via regular updates?21:16
charlie-tcathe ISO's are created daily, with big changed to Unity on Thursday or so21:16
charlie-tcaleoquant: no21:16
leoquantdo we test iso's?21:16
charlie-tcayes, before each release21:16
leoquantokthat was/is new for me21:16
charlie-tcaFor example, before alpha2, I tested 32 images between tuesday and wednesday21:17
MrChrisDruifYeah, you'd want a working iso, right?21:17
AlanBellI understand the italian loco team are particularly hot on iso testing21:17
charlie-tcathis week I have tested 48 or so for Lucid 10.04.2 which comes out tomorrow21:17
charlie-tcahowever, we only catch a few bugs during those testing days21:18
charlie-tcaWe will find the majority of the issues by testing every day or two, or by using natty21:19
leoquantwe could do some iso testing via our LoCo to...i will remember that21:19
UndiFineDcharlie-tca: do you consider alpha 3 stable enough for daily use ?21:19
MrChrisDruifleoquant: You could even make them mad enough to join the ugj ;)21:20
charlie-tcaNot on your production machine, no21:20
charlie-tcaThe hardware video drivers are not working with Xserver 1.10, so most will not have 3d yet21:20
charlie-tcaIf you need your computer to work with, natty is unstable21:21
MrChrisDruifcharlie-tca: for a separate partition as well?21:23
charlie-tcaIt is fine to run in a separate partition, with backups of important data21:23
leoquantMrChrisDruif, thats great21:23
charlie-tcaThere will be days when it will be completely unusable, though21:23
leoquantX updates are mostly killing21:25
charlie-tcaI run natty on my computer, with complete backups of everything, so I can get to an email or a document in lucid if I need it.21:26
leoquant(imo) X is key, and major updates stop after the beta release21:26
charlie-tcaagreed, normally at the beta release, it becomes pretty stable for everyone21:27
MrChrisDruifcharlie-tca: in lucid, alright :)21:27
charlie-tcabut if we can tell the developers, screen-reader install worked yesterday, and today it will not even start, we have a good chance they can find what broke quickly21:28
charlie-tcaIf we tell them it worked last month, it is going to take a lot longer to get it fixed21:28
MrChrisDruifeveryone: no further questions?21:29
JackyAlcineNone from me.21:30
Pendulumokay, great21:31
Pendulumthanks CHarlie :)21:31
charlie-tcaYou are welcome21:31
charlie-tcainterest is great!21:31
Pendulum#topic Blog Volunteers for the next month21:31
meetingologyTOPIC: Blog Volunteers for the next month21:31
Pendulumso we had a semi-successful first month of blogging :)21:32
* charlie-tca hides now21:32
Pendulumand now I'd like to schedule in people to blog for each week (starting next week) until our next meeting (which will be the 16th of next month)21:33
Pendulumso do I have 4 volunteers (with or without topics)?21:33
hajourif you think it will helpfull i will write a blog if i get some help with writing Pendulum 21:33
Pendulumhajour: if you'd like, I'm happy to help. Do you have a topic in mind?21:33
UndiFineDtyping ... :)21:34
hajourmaybe about speechcontrol hoe it begon and why speechcontrol started 21:35
Pendulumsounds good21:35
hajouri don't think it will usefull to put a poem in :P XD21:35
Pendulumhajour: do you want to write it for next week or would you like a little more time?21:36
hajoura little more time if it is possible21:36
Pendulumhajour: how about the week of March 9 (3 weeks from now)?21:37
hajouryes that's fine for me.but if you need earlier i will do it21:37
Pendulumhajour: nope, that's fine21:38
hajourok :)21:38
Pendulum#action hajour to blog about speechcontrol for week of March 9, 201121:38
meetingologyACTION: hajour to blog about speechcontrol for week of March 9, 201121:38
Pendulumother blogging volunteers?21:38
JackyAlcineAh, I would like to, but to be on the Planet, I'll need to work on it intently. =/ And have time.21:39
hajourthere are a few new here pendule21:39
leoquantit must be ontopic?21:40
Pendulumleoquant: it has to be accessibility related21:40
hajourmaybe it has to be more clear what the blog is about Pendulum 21:40
Pendulumthe blog is the blog for the Ubuntu Accessibility Team21:40
leoquantyeah Pendulum but its a small corner21:40
AlanBellI intend to get the next persona published21:41
Pendulumabout the only guideline for posts is that it relate to accessibility in Ubuntu in some way21:41
hajourPendulum,  we could put a link in speechcontrol wiki from the accessibility blog s 21:41
Pendulumso far we've had posts about personas, general team info, the indicator buttons, and ones in progress about why accessibility is important (and hopefully one in progress of being written about testing ;) )21:42
hajoura great AlanBell 21:42
leoquantbut accessibility blogs becomes often so extr. personal/private almost....21:43
* charlie-tca peeks out at Pendulum 21:44
leoquantbut that is its value?21:44
AlanBellthis is the team blog rather than a personal blog21:44
Pendulumthe reason behind having a blog for the team is to increase visibility of the project within the wider community. It's syndicated on planet.ubuntu.com21:44
Pendulumand based on where the trackbacks were I think has been picked up by some other public aggregators21:44
AlanBellit does mean that anyone can write an article, without being an Ubuntu Member and it can be on the planet and other places21:45
Pendulum(certainly we got trackbacks from a couple websites about visual impairment and computing)21:45
Pendulumif we don't have any other volunteers then I'll post an e-mail to the list21:47
Pendulumany other volunteers?21:47
Pendulummaco2: do you want to write about gally?21:47
charlie-tcaI hope to get that article done, but not before next week. I need to get the test case out first. 21:47
Pendulumcharlie-tca: that's fine. do you want me to schedule you in for 2 weeks from now?21:47
hajourhow about to have some trackbacks to from websites about deaf and memory and computing Pendulum 21:47
Pendulum(I can't poke you that week itself, but I can poke you about it next week)21:48
charlie-tcano, put in next week or 4 weeks out21:48
hajourand others21:48
MrChrisDruifPendulum: I might surprise you, but I don't want to be tied to it :)21:48
Pendulumhajour: we haven't had any yet, but that's not something I have control over.21:48
charlie-tcatwo weeks is alpha3, I will be testing again all week21:48
Pendulumhajour: trackbacks are notes that another site has linked back to us21:48
Pendulumcharlie-tca: okay, so next week then?21:48
maco2Pendulum: it's inaccessible :P21:48
Pendulumsounds good21:48
Pendulummaco2: point taken :)21:48
hajoura mail to other site s ore they want to have a trackback?21:48
hajourit can be helpful21:49
Pendulum#action charlie-tca to write about testing for week of March 221:49
meetingologyACTION: charlie-tca to write about testing for week of March 221:49
maco2Pendulum: the saving grace is that you need to be sighted to use what youd learn from it anyway21:49
charlie-tcaThat's not next week21:49
maco2so there's the excuse for it being in a toolkit that's no good for those who aren't sighted ;-)21:49
PendulumAlanBell: is there a way to cancel an action?21:50
AlanBellthe minutes go in the wiki and can be edited there21:50
charlie-tcaNext week is good, i can put the test case link in it too21:50
Pendulum#action charlie-tca to write about testing for week of February 2321:50
meetingologyACTION: charlie-tca to write about testing for week of February 2321:50
charlie-tcayup, that's it21:51
PendulumAlanBell or phillw, would either of you be willing to write about web accessibility for the week of March 2?21:51
hajourwhat you mean by that maco2 ? :)21:52
AlanBellwell I want to prioritise the persona post21:52
PendulumAlanBell: okay. would that work for March 2?21:52
Pendulum(or that week)21:52
Pendulumgreat :)21:52
Pendulum#action AlanBell to post another personas update week of March 2, 201121:53
meetingologyACTION: AlanBell to post another personas update week of March 2, 201121:53
maco2hajour: it's a program to teach sign language. sign language is visual, so the fact that it's written in qt and screen-readers can't handle it doesn't matter so much since if you're blind, you're probably not able to see someone signing to you21:53
Pendulumokay, anyone for the week of March 16?21:53
hajoura ok maco2  hehe21:53
TheMusoI could write something about unity, and how it differs from traditional GNOME.21:53
PendulumTheMuso: that would be wonderful!21:54
TheMusoI also plan to create an audio/video about how to get around in unity with orca.21:54
phillwmy apologies, I was in PM with a padawan21:54
Pendulum(especially as people ask me about the Unity stuff)21:54
Pendulum#action TheMuso to write about Unity in comparison with Gnome for week of March 16, 201121:54
meetingologyACTION: TheMuso to write about Unity in comparison with Gnome for week of March 16, 201121:54
hajourgreat TheMuso 21:55
Pendulumphillw: that's okay, we ended up with enough blogging volunteers :)21:55
TheMusoAnd yeah as I said, I plan to do a multimedia presentation about unity and orca.21:55
PendulumTheMuso: guess I know what you can blog about in April, then? ;)21:55
TheMusoYou could say that. :) it would be an introduction to my presentation.21:55
Pendulumokay, moving on since we have volunteers for the next month21:56
Pendulum#topic Looking for someone to do accessibility interviews21:56
meetingologyTOPIC: Looking for someone to do accessibility interviews21:56
PendulumI posted to the list about this and got a lot of responses by people willing to be interviewed, but not so much by people willing to interview21:56
AlanBelldutchie would be good at that21:56
JackyAlcineHow about SilverFox?21:57
JackyAlcine>_< She's UBT, sorry.21:57
Pendulumessentially, I had a conversation with jono about how it'd be a great thing to have an interview a month or so on the accessibility blog with a member of the accessibility team21:57
AlanBellsilverfox doesn't do pronouns, and is busy with the other interview series21:57
PendulumI think it's a great idea, however, haven't spent 6 months doing Ubuntu Women interviews, I know it's not my forte21:57
Pendulumso I'm looking for someone willing to do them21:57
Pendulumany volunteers?21:58
Pendulum(if not, I'll talk to dutchie and see if he's interested as I don't think he's here right now)21:59
hajourif it was spoken. but writhing :S21:59
Pendulumokay, I'll poke dutch22:00
AlanBellthere are a few people that could be volunteered for that, MarkDude IdleOne  Cheri703  spring to mind22:00
hajourCheri703, would be good at that btw22:00
Pendulumwell since none of them seem to be actually here, I'll talk to people later :)22:00
hajourshe is very good with talking to people22:00
leoquant==bedtime bye22:01
Pendulumby the way, we're now at an hour. Do people want to continue the rest of the meeting or postpone items to next month?22:01
* AlanBell would like to continue22:01
JackyAlcineI want to hear about UFA.22:01
* UndiFineD has time22:01
TheMusoMe too.22:01
hajourcontineu would be fine by me22:01
Pendulumokay, then, we can continue :)22:01
Pendulum#topic Ubuntu for All22:02
meetingologyTOPIC: Ubuntu for All22:02
PendulumAlanBell: that's you :P22:02
AlanBell#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll22:02
* Cheri703 would be good at what?22:02
AlanBellso Ubuntu For All is an idea that has been kicked about a few times over the last couple of years22:02
AlanBellhi Cheri703 22:02
PendulumCheri703: I'll talk to you after the meeting :)22:03
Cheri703ok, sorry22:03
Pendulumno worries :)22:03
AlanBellthe idea is to form a group that kind of makes sure Ubuntu works for everyone, simply enough22:03
AlanBellthere are a bunch of projects in Ubuntu that do that in particular directions, this kind of brings them together22:04
AlanBellit isn't a council (we have plenty of them already)22:04
AlanBellI see it as more of a support team22:04
JackyAlcineLike a hub of some sort?22:05
AlanBellI can see it doing things like checking meetings that are scheduled actually happen, checking and helping with team reports/minutes etc22:05
MrChrisDruifHow do you mean that AlanBell? One team pulls it more towards accessibility, other team pulls it...where?22:05
AlanBellMrChrisDruif: not pulling so much22:06
AlanBellthat is the somewhat tentative project list22:06
AlanBellthey are all projects that were there from the start, or where I have spoken to the team leaders to check they are interested in being involved22:07
AlanBellI don't see it as being a high activity group, just checking to make sure that all the teams involved keep going and have the resources they need22:08
AlanBellthere is a kickoff meeting which will define the scope of the team22:08
phillwAlanBell: I think it is wonderful idea. letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing, saves duplication.22:08
AlanBellFriday 25th Feb 19:00UTC in #ubuntu-meeting22:08
UndiFineDI could see our duaghters in ubuntu-younglings :)22:09
TheMusoDamn can't make that meeting.22:09
MrChrisDruifSame time as Unity Developers meeting22:09
hajourAlanBell,  have the ubunti Younglings already a own chat channel?22:09
AlanBellUndiFineD: that is exactly the idea22:09
AlanBellhajour: no, not yet22:09
AlanBellhajour: that is a project I would like to start, but the rules for such a channel would need careful discussion22:09
AlanBellinvite only etc probably22:10
hajouryes i understand that AlanBell :)22:10
AlanBellanyhow, all stuff we can discuss on the 25th or in #ubuntu-for-all22:10
JackyAlcineHm, wouldn't such a channel need supervision?22:10
hajourit would be great 22:10
JackyAlcineTo keep them safe online?22:10
phillwhajour: it would need to be COPPA registered for under 13 years of age.22:10
hajouryes JackyAlcine 22:10
AlanBellJackyAlcine: yes, that is what I mean22:11
JackyAlcineAh, just checking. :)22:11
phillwhajour: I'll chat after the meeting.22:11
MrChrisDruifphillw: coppa?22:11
Pendulumanyway, Ubuntu Younglings isn't this group. I suspect that's all stuff that can get hashed out in that group :)22:11
hajourok phillw 22:11
Pendulum(or in the U4A meeting)22:11
maco2MrChrisDruif: you know how you cant ask for any identifying info from childdren under 13?22:11
AlanBellyes, we are drifting, I just wanted to announce it here22:11
maco2MrChrisDruif: like how all the websites ask your birthday to verify you're over 13?22:12
Pendulumcan we move on?22:12
maco2yeah sorry22:12
Pendulumno worries :)22:12
Pendulum#topic Next Persona22:12
meetingologyTOPIC: Next Persona22:12
PendulumAlanBell: you wanted to talk about this too?22:12
hajourwell Pendulum  a group like that could say very well or programs are accessible is for that age 22:13
AlanBellok, next persona is Daniela22:13
hajoursorry had typed allready :S22:13
MrChrisDruifacceptable you mean hajour?22:13
Pendulumhajour: that's okay :)22:13
AlanBelltext as we have it so far is here http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/daniela22:13
AlanBelland I found a picture here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Daniela22:13
* AlanBell spent an hour on flickr looking for pictures of women in swimming costumes22:14
AlanBellonly realised afterwards it was a bit odd :)22:14
maco2heh, just head & shoulders with a swim cap would do22:15
AlanBellmaco2: I wanted something more dramatic, she is totally blind remember22:15
hajourwhy its just swimming women22:15
maco2hajour: daniela is a competitive swimmer22:16
hajouri know22:16
hajouriu have helped with daniela persona to .by saying things to UndiFineD  maco2 22:16
maco2hajour: then i dont understand your question22:16
hajouralso i have done swimming contest and i was blind on that time to maco2 22:17
AlanBellanyhow, I would like more help with the text as we move it towards a blog post like the Faisal one22:17
hajouri responsed on this maco2  heh, just head & shoulders with a swim cap would do22:17
AlanBellthe Faisal one is now on the wiki by the way https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Faisal22:17
hajouri find it a great picture AlanBell 22:18
AlanBellPendulum: ok, about done with the persona for now22:18
Pendulumanyone else have anything relating to Daniela?22:19
UndiFineDshe needs a lovely dog and speechcontrol :)22:20
Pendulumokay, moving on22:20
Pendulum#topic Diversity at UDS22:20
meetingologyTOPIC: Diversity at UDS22:20
MrChrisDruifWoohoo...I saw it change on the spot :P22:21
Pendulumlast week there was a meeting about Diversity at UDS in the Ubuntu Women channel aimed at increasing the number of women at UDS22:21
UndiFineDI looked up the hotel, geesh, that is expensive22:21
phillwit was wonderful to see accessibility brought to a 'must be' instead of an add on22:22
PendulumI've requested from jono that we have an accessibility meeting about it too because I've found a lot more people asking me accessibility related questions than asking me questions related to being female at UDS22:22
Pendulumare people interested in such a meeting?22:22
PendulumUndiFineD: UDS hotels are *always* expensive. If you don't get sponsorship, the next best thing is to try to find a cheaper hotel nearby22:23
hajourwe cant afford any hotel Pendulum 22:23
Pendulumbtw, for purposes of UDS I include any sort of "regular" impairment as well as food allergies and anything else that I'm not thinking of but would fall under it22:23
hajourUndiFineD,  and i22:24
maco2hajour: or a local ubuntu community person on whose couch you can surf22:24
Pendulumanyway, so it sounds like there's definitely interest in a meeting22:24
Pendulumis this a good time of day for people?22:24
JackyAlcineFor me, it's perfect.22:24
maco2good for me22:24
JackyAlcineLike right now, right?22:25
Pendulumeither right now or the 21:00 UTC time22:25
Pendulum(I want to be able to tell jono an approximate time of day so that we can get as many people in it as possible)22:25
hajouri want to go but i don't no how22:25
phillw20:00 or 21:00 is fine by me22:25
hajourits ok by me Pendulum 22:26
Pendulumokay, thanks :)22:26
phillwas long as we're not 2,00 miles away from the UK!22:26
TheMusoExcept for Fridays, every other day of the week at 20/21:00UTC is fine.22:26
hajourmaco2,  its far from herte the UDS22:26
maco2hajour: so you know, if you can't attend uds, there is also remote participation via audio streams and collaborative text-editors. that's how i'll participate 22:27
PendulumI'll be bringing this up with jono when I talk to him tomorrow22:27
maco2hajour: i meant trying to get people who live near uds to let you couchsurf ;-)  people have done that before22:27
Pendulum#topic Any Other Business22:27
meetingologyTOPIC: Any Other Business22:27
phillwPendulum: it's in Bhudapest?22:27
TheMusonot from me22:27
maco2phillw: yes22:27
AlanBellthere is a new theme about to come out for wiki.ubuntu.com22:28
phillwi would not be attend :( too far.22:28
AlanBellI got the code today22:28
JackyAlcineInteresting; what's the catch/22:28
hajoura ok maco2  UndiFineD  have explaind what couchsurf means22:28
AlanBell^^ preview of the new design22:28
phillwAlanBell: you have done outstanding work, as you always do.22:29
AlanBellat the moment the code isn't in a public place on launchpad as it got mixed up with some other themes22:29
Pendulumhajour: maco2 can you do that after the meeting?22:29
UndiFineDAlanBell: would be great if I was able to change themes22:29
AlanBellphillw: I didn't contribute to this one at all22:29
AlanBellI just managed to get a copy released to me22:29
UndiFineDAlanBell: I get this nice message when changing themes: This email already belongs to somebody else.22:30
AlanBellI can't fix bugs yet, and I am not sure there is somewhere to submit them, but there will be in a few days22:30
phillwAlanBell: I'm still playing catch up with emails22:30
JackyAlcineI like it, it's a bit cleaner and more gentle to the eye.22:30
AlanBellUndiFineD: I can help you submit a request to get that fixed22:30
hajourAlanBell,  the red is like there are all small mmm how you call that stripes are in what makes the white fonts not clear for me22:30
UndiFineDI sent a request AlanBell .. not getting fixed22:31
ubot2Ubuntu bug 685436 in ubuntu-website "Cannot change theme" [Undecided,Incomplete]22:31
hajourfrom the site from your link22:31
hajourAlanBell, ^22:31
AlanBellhajour: what white fonts?22:32
hajourthe white fonts in the red parts22:32
AlanBellthere is Ubuntu wiki in the header, and white on black in the header menu22:32
* AlanBell can't see any other white text22:32
AlanBellor red for that matter22:33
AlanBellthere is a big orange banner at the top22:33
UndiFineDthere are bugs in the banner22:34
maco2AlanBell:  meh, red-orange ;-)22:34
Pendulumokay, I need to head out soon so does anyone mind if I end the meeting and discussion can continue about this outside of the meeting?22:34
AlanBellfine by me22:34
UndiFineDbut it is too bright for me22:34
phillwpen np22:34
JackyAlcineThe new banner, UndiFineD?22:34
maco2hajour: the text should be much much larger than those stripes...22:34
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb 16 22:34:49 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)22:34
meetingologyMinutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-02-16-21.00.moin.txt22:34
AlanBellthanks Pendulum 22:34
phillwthanks Pendulum22:35
Pendulumcan someone post the minutes, I've just been informed that I need to get ready to go out to dinner22:35
AlanBellPendulum: I will do it, have a nice dinner22:35
JackyAlcineg'night Pendulum22:35
Pendulumalso, I guess tomorrow I'll tell whoever is around about my silly side project that's semi-related to this team (that AlanBell knows about)22:35
maco2hajour: would bold text help?22:36
PendulumCheri703: will you be around after like 8PM EST?22:36
MrChrisDruifHave a nice dinner Pendulum :)22:36
Cheri703as far as I'm aware22:36
AlanBellok, so white text on the orange background22:36
maco2AlanBell: that preview has an ugly on my screen in the form of a grey line going right through the middle of "edit" "info" attachments" as if it were a strikeout22:36
* Cheri703 has been busy with clients/client computers today :)22:36
AlanBelldoes the text say "Ubuntu wiki"?22:37
hajourthank you for chair the meeting Pendulum :)22:37
maco2AlanBell: i think that's the text she's referring to 22:37
JackyAlcineHow about screen shots from everyone?22:37
AlanBellJackyAlcine: well I can use browsershots22:37
hajouri mean22:38
JackyAlcineIt looks okayish on my screen; I like the vibrancy of the previous theme though.22:39
AlanBellmaco2: yes, I get that in firefox too, I have reported that one22:39
hajourthat the orange part where is fonts in with the name ubuntu . it looks like not a whole piece orange but very much slim orange lines 22:39
maco2hajour: yes, there are very very thin lines. are they rendering very thick on your browser so they interfere with the text?22:39
AlanBellthere is a very faint diagonal pinstripe at the top of the orange banner22:40
hajourand with  try to read my eye was going see the fonts double22:40
phillwJackyAlcine: looks fine on both Chromium and FFox for me - the usual problem is for those with poor sight, the text is too small.22:40
UndiFineDAlanBell: broken diagonal for me22:40
maco2they show on mine as being probably done with subpixel stuff since they're not even quite a pixel wide, while the text is showing as at least 3px thick.  is the thickness more similar on yours?22:40
AlanBelland actually, zooming in someone is out by one pixel in the repeating image22:40
hajourand was after that not able to see anymore a couple of minutes by tears in my eye22:40
JackyAlcineWhy not add letters on the page for sizing?22:40
JackyAlcineor a Accessibility icon that switches stylesheets?22:41
phillwJackyAlcine: I've asked about stylesheets.22:41
AlanBellthat is a possibility, but I think they would rather fix it in a way that works for everyone22:41
hajourAlanBell,  maco2 ^22:41
maco2are the fonts set by px/pt settings or by %?22:41
maco2they *ought* to be percent22:42
* JackyAlcine was a webdeveloper before ubuntu. ;)22:42
JackyAlcinemaco2: I can see them locked by px/pt.22:42
maco2or em22:42
maco2ugh 22:42
phillwJackyAlcine: phillw suggested the system that phpbb use.22:42
AlanBellyeah, I know about the font settings :(22:43
JackyAlcineIt's an etiquette; unless they globalized the font in a * {} and just percent it then.22:43
maco2they should be % or em that way the user can set their default font size to 24 instead of 16 it actually does something useful 22:43
maco2JackyAlcine: they dont need to. the browser has a global font size22:43
maco216 is the usual default browser global font size22:43
AlanBellyes, sadly the style guide for the web specifies fonts in pixels22:43
AlanBellthe web team follow the style guide religiously22:44
JackyAlcinemaco2: If the page's size is 16pt, usually all of the elements without definition would inherit that size.22:44
JackyAlcinenot the browser definition.22:44
AlanBellso it is a negotiation with the design team and the web team to get any movement there22:44
JackyAlcinelike in a stylesheet or a deprecated <BASEFONT> tag.22:44
maco2JackyAlcine: but thats why i am saying the css should not set *anything* by px or pt, ONLY by "percent of browser's setting"22:44
hajourhajour> that the orange part where is fonts in with the name ubuntu . it looks like not a whole piece orange but very much slim orange lines hajour> and with  try to read my eye was going see the fonts double.<hajour> and was after that not able to see anymore a couple of minutes by tears in my eye22:44
JackyAlcinemaco2: *shrugs* laziness perhaps?22:45
maco2AlanBell: whoever decided pixels instead of points has a bit of ignorance going on. havent they heard of dpi?22:45
maco2but still, letting the user have their base font size be set in browser and then you scale by percent is better accessibility22:46
hajourto small fonts. also22:46
UndiFineDand by far too bright for me22:46
hajouri cant read fast on the moment my eye is still not rehabitated from reading the site/trying22:47
phillwAlanBell: I'm sure that something like http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=2115856&p=12927386#p12927386 is not impossible.22:47
AlanBellthe header consists of this white+transparent image http://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/images/ubuntu-wiki.png22:48
AlanBellon top of this repeating tile http://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/images/orangeheader-tile.png22:48
hajoursorry maco2  i don't know or you have said something to me22:49
AlanBellphillw: actually these days I think that is less important than it used to be as ctrl+mousewheel just does variable zooming on every site22:49
AlanBellwhen ctrl+mousewheel is broken that is very bad22:50
maco2AlanBell: or ctrl+ or ctrl-22:50
AlanBellsame thing22:50
maco2i keep accidentally zooming my screen all funny when i go to scroll the page :(22:50
maco2or when i go to move the cursor and it just decides to scroll even though im nowhere near the scroll area22:51
AlanBellmaco2: get your big screen and you will *really* not like sites that use the 960gs framework22:51
maco2usually this leaves me thinking "hey! i didnt even press ctrl!" :-/22:51
phillwAlanBell: or when you are using a touch pad and do not have a scrolling mouse?22:51
maco2phillw: touchpads have a scrolling area on the side22:51
AlanBellside of my touchpad scrolls22:51
hajourAlanBell,  if you would ingrease the size of the fonts the stripe problem will not go away22:51
AlanBellhajour: it isn't a font22:51
AlanBellit is an image on another image22:51
maco2even  touchpads that dont have a scrolling area marked and dont scroll in windows.... frequently DO scroll in linux22:52
phillwAlanBell: so does mine, but ctrl - scroll does not zoom22:52
hajourits not the font i talk about but the orange part22:52
JackyAlcinemaco2: has to be enabled first.22:52
maco2phillw: sounds like a bug22:52
maco2JackyAlcine: i thought it defaulted that way22:52
maco2for vertical scroll22:52
AlanBellhowever I am more bothered about readability of the body text than stuff round the edges22:52
maco2horizontal defaults off22:52
maco2and two-finger scrolling defaults off22:52
JackyAlcinenope, I have to set it everytime I install or run Ubuntu on this laptop of mine.22:52
JackyAlcinethe orange hue, hajour?22:53
AlanBellI know the stuff in the footer is hard to read, but it is unimportant small print for example22:53
hajourwell i think boths are importanted22:53
maco2funky. mine doesnt.22:53
AlanBellif the body text was white on an orange background I would consider that a huge problem :)22:53
hajouri still have tears in my eye and for to remember i got only 122:54
AlanBellhttp://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/css/typography.css font definitions22:56
hajourJackyAlcine,  can you say to michael i talk later to him.my eye have to rehastable first i dont see the spellingcontrol line anymorte now also22:56
hajoursay i am sorry i now he hav wight long22:57
hajourJackyAlcine, ^22:57
AlanBellUndiFineD: you need to send an email to rt at ubuntu.com telling them your email address and launchpad profile URL and the error message you get when changing themes on the wiki23:05
AlanBelland link to the bug23:05
AlanBellor, even better23:05
UndiFineDok I will23:05
AlanBelllog in with username ubuntu and password ubuntu and raise a new ticket there23:05
AlanBellthe IS team don't look at bugs or launchpad, they use RT instead, and this is an issue with your profile only so a bug won't fix it23:07
AlanBellphillw: from reading http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm I think it would be exempt, or not hard at all to comply23:09
AlanBellfeel free to discuss further in #ubuntu-for-all23:09
UndiFineDAlanBell: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=1658223:10
AlanBellthat should do it23:12
AlanBellit might take a while, but it is in the right place now23:12
MrChrisDruifFirst of all, I've got two suggestions: put the next meeting in the topic and put it on the fridge23:19
MrChrisDruifAnd we were still discussing the mock up of AlanBell?23:20
UndiFineDMrChrisDruif: the meeting ended some while ago23:20
UndiFineDthis is the afterparty :P23:21
MrChrisDruifI know....but hajour is complaining to me about the mock up23:21
hajourwell i only told what happend by looking to that site23:23
MrChrisDruifLike I said... hajour has got some suggestions23:23
hajourand i think that maybe my english is nnot good enough to say it clear enough23:24
MrChrisDruifWant me to say it hajour?23:25
hajouryes i would appreciate if you want to say it MrChrisDruif 23:25
MrChrisDruifAlright, here the drop: hajour thinks that the header should be upgraded for improved accessibility23:26
MrChrisDruifThe orange isn't a solid color and gives her tired eyes to read23:27
MrChrisDruifBecause of the diagonal lines, the letters become hazy23:28
MrChrisDruifI think that should cover what she feels about it...23:28
MrChrisDruifUpdate: also the letters in the white part become blurry/unreadable if you zoom in a lot23:32
hajourok thanks MrChrisDruif :)23:33
hajourmaco2, AlanBell ^23:33
MrChrisDruifBye y'all23:51

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