[00:05] <erkan^> charlie-tca, : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/719705
[00:05] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 719705 in wine "Error: TactileView can not open" [Undecided,New]
[00:06] <charlie-tca> thanks, I will add a comment that I reproduced it
[00:06] <erkan^> ok
[00:06] <erkan^> (-:
[00:08] <erkan^> My English is not good, I hope that I have wroten good explain what about problem I have with Wine, charlie-tca 
[00:08] <charlie-tca> It will be fine. I work with a lot of reports that are not in good english
[00:08] <erkan^> Cool (-:
[00:09]  * charlie-tca does about 300 bug reports a month
[00:10] <erkan^> Last week age I am beginning with bug reports , UndiFineD had explained me how can I write with a bugs (-: charlie-tca 
[00:11] <charlie-tca> You are going to do fine
[00:12] <UndiFineD> erkan^ :)
[00:12] <UndiFineD> your giving me too much credit
[00:14] <charlie-tca> I have to take a break now
[00:14] <erkan^> what about credit ?
[02:36] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Did you get my email?
[02:44] <Pendulum> TheMuso: yeah. I only saw some proofreading type changes. Otherwise it looked good. 
[02:44] <Pendulum> DO you want me to publish it?
[02:44] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Yes, thats why I sent to you.
[02:44] <TheMuso> sent it to you.
[02:44] <Pendulum> great :)
[02:45] <TheMuso> feel free to make sed changes.
[02:45] <TheMuso> I have my hands full with actually labeling the indicators atm. :)
[02:45] <Pendulum> heh
[02:45] <Pendulum> have fun with that :P
[02:45] <TheMuso> Good news though, all the system indicators are labeled, and have branches ready to go.
[02:45] <TheMuso> Now starting to tackle application indicators...
[02:45] <TheMuso> Like network-manager.
[03:23] <maco2> TheMuso: is this something i could help with?
[03:24] <maco2> TheMuso: it doesnt sound like something requiring in-depth knowledge of the codebase...
[03:24] <TheMuso> maco2: You could indeed, however it requires my changes to libappindicator to be merged, which they are not yet.
[03:25]  * TheMuso is going to do his best to cover everything in main.
[03:25] <TheMuso> But if you would like to have a look anyway, you can pull lp:~themuso/libappindicator/a11y-desc to see the API additions I have made.
[03:26] <TheMuso> Python and mono bindings also have these additions.
[03:29] <maco2> ok. i'll try to get my vm-capable laptop online this weekend and get a natty vm going
[03:31] <TheMuso> I thinhk such work could be considered as a bug fix, and new functionality, but not sure how the release team would judge that, I might run that by them.
[03:32] <TheMuso> and not new functionality.
[15:30] <leoquant> erkan^, je bent ook van harte in mwanzo hoor...:)
[18:25] <erkan^> leoquant, over drie weken tog?
[18:26] <leoquant> de lessen ja
[18:26] <leoquant> maar je/u mag gerust mwanzo op irc joinen
[18:26] <leoquant> als je dat wil he....
[18:26] <leoquant> je bent immers teamlid nu
[18:27] <AlanBell> leoquant: can you keep it in english here please as some people may be following with a screen reader
[18:28] <erkan^> nu ben ik daar (-:
[18:28] <leoquant> indeed and sorry AlanBell  and others
[18:28] <erkan^> you are right, AlanBell (-:
[18:29] <erkan^> I have seen a email that the meeting begin at 21.00 o'clock? Is 21.00 o'clock European or American time ?
[18:30] <AlanBell> UTC
[18:30] <AlanBell> 21:00 is in 2 1/2 hours from now
[18:30] <AlanBell> @now
[18:30] <meetingology> AlanBell: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
[18:31] <AlanBell> ah, ubottu can respond to @now and tell the time in UTC
[18:31] <leoquant> @schedule
[18:31] <meetingology> leoquant: Error: "schedule" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> @time
[18:35] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> @tijd
[18:35] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "tijd" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> @utc
[18:35] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "utc" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> @UT
[18:35] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "UT" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> @UTC
[18:35] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "UTC" is not a valid command.
[18:35] <erkan^> sorry for floods S
[18:40] <JackyAlcine> o.O lol
[18:49] <AlanBell> heh, only ubottu does that, meetingology just responds to anything with @
[20:51] <Pendulum> meeting in 10 minutes :)
[20:52] <erkan^> ohh, i go make a coffee (-: 
[20:55] <JackyAlcine> Really?
[20:55] <JackyAlcine> Now in 5. where's the agenda? o.O
[20:55] <AlanBell> in the /topic
[20:55] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[20:56] <Pendulum> yeah, even though the meeting has the wrong date in the /topic
[20:56] <Pendulum> (but it's right everywhere else)
[20:56] <hajour> hai all
[20:57] <maco2> is this the jonoful meeting?
[20:57] <maco2> or a regular one?
[20:57]  * charlie-tca made it, apparently
[20:57] <Pendulum> regular
[20:57] <Pendulum> haven't set up the jono one yet
[20:57] <Pendulum> I'm poking him about it on our call tomorrow
[20:58] <hajour> i hope i will stay here now.i was not able to come on chat in morning.its evening here now
[21:00] <Pendulum> right it's time
[21:00] <Pendulum> #startmeeting
[21:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 16 21:00:44 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[21:00] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[21:01] <Pendulum> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[21:02] <Pendulum> #topic Testing for Natty
[21:02] <meetingology> TOPIC: Testing for Natty
[21:02] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you give us an update on testing for Natty and links to where people can get information on how to test, etc?
[21:02] <UndiFineD> o/
[21:02] <charlie-tca> sure
[21:03] <charlie-tca> We have Natty Alpha3 coming in two weeks and need people to be testing the images
[21:03] <leoquant> 'lo
[21:04] <charlie-tca> If you have a virtual machine or a spare partition, you can download the images from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ and test them
[21:04] <JackyAlcine> Aside from usual bugs and discrepancies, what are we looking for?
[21:04] <charlie-tca> I will be posting the test case this weekend for a screen-reader installation, and will let everyone know where it is.
[21:05] <charlie-tca> any bugs 
[21:05] <leoquant> i have tested xubuntu en ubuntu(gnome) via vm ware: was never able to send "crash" faillure reports
[21:05] <charlie-tca> We want to know that it will install, that you can use what is already there, and that you do not have to jump through loops to make it work
[21:05] <leoquant> it errors
[21:05] <charlie-tca> That too is a bug
[21:06] <leoquant> indeed
[21:06] <charlie-tca> You can report those issues directly to launchpad using       ubuntu-bug ubiquity     in a terminal
[21:07] <MrChrisDruif> Hai everyone
[21:07] <leoquant> thx charlie-tca 
[21:07] <erkan^> hi MrChrisDruif (-:
[21:07] <charlie-tca> The shortcut keys are listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[21:07] <hajour> hai MrChrisDruif :)
[21:07] <charlie-tca> Please update this as you discover more 
[21:07] <charlie-tca> Okay, any other questions?
[21:07] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca: Don't the devs give us the shortcut keys?
[21:08] <Pendulum> MrChrisDruif: we wish :-/
[21:08] <charlie-tca> We do not want every person to have to go and ask someone what they are
[21:08] <MrChrisDruif> That is working ass backwards <_<"
[21:09] <charlie-tca> The ones in the wiki are what we have been given so far
[21:09] <Pendulum> MrChrisDruif: I think most of the list we've gotten from jcastro who has gotten them from the developers.
[21:09] <JackyAlcine> That's a bit odd.
[21:10] <hajour> cant we ask then for to give the shortcut keys? 
[21:10] <AlanBell> the answer is yes, the devs do give us shortcut keys, and we add them to the list
[21:10] <charlie-tca> It is a brand new interface, not all the shorcuts have even been defined
[21:10] <AlanBell> they are not all written yet
[21:10] <hajour> a ok 
[21:10] <Pendulum> so someone here may notice them before we get the next list
[21:11] <Pendulum> also, I'll be posting a blog post by TheMuso today which I think has a little more info about shortcut keys in terms of the indicator panel :)
[21:11] <charlie-tca> We have already one that was on the list, since it was taken out
[21:11] <charlie-tca> s/one/removed one
[21:12] <TheMuso> I know F10 to get to the panel is coming.
[21:12] <MrChrisDruif> TheMuso: Check the list, it's on there
[21:12] <TheMuso> I know.
[21:13] <charlie-tca> That's all from me
[21:13] <Pendulum> Anyone else have any questions about testing?
[21:14] <MrChrisDruif> Pendulum: None so far
[21:14] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca: could you notice the testing channel when the isos are up ?
[21:14] <charlie-tca> as in #ubuntu-testing?
[21:14] <UndiFineD> yes
[21:15] <charlie-tca> yes, they are usually announced there, but only during the actual ISO testing.
[21:15] <charlie-tca> It would be good to start testing these every day or two, if we can
[21:15] <UndiFineD> I actually meant a /notice :)
[21:16]  * leoquant is doing something wrong via regular updates?
[21:16] <charlie-tca> the ISO's are created daily, with big changed to Unity on Thursday or so
[21:16] <charlie-tca> leoquant: no
[21:16] <leoquant> do we test iso's?
[21:16] <charlie-tca> yes, before each release
[21:16] <leoquant> okthat was/is new for me
[21:17] <charlie-tca> For example, before alpha2, I tested 32 images between tuesday and wednesday
[21:17] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, you'd want a working iso, right?
[21:17] <AlanBell> I understand the italian loco team are particularly hot on iso testing
[21:17] <charlie-tca> this week I have tested 48 or so for Lucid 10.04.2 which comes out tomorrow
[21:18] <charlie-tca> however, we only catch a few bugs during those testing days
[21:19] <charlie-tca> We will find the majority of the issues by testing every day or two, or by using natty
[21:19] <leoquant> we could do some iso testing via our LoCo to...i will remember that
[21:19] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca: do you consider alpha 3 stable enough for daily use ?
[21:20] <MrChrisDruif> leoquant: You could even make them mad enough to join the ugj ;)
[21:20] <charlie-tca> Not on your production machine, no
[21:20] <charlie-tca> The hardware video drivers are not working with Xserver 1.10, so most will not have 3d yet
[21:21] <charlie-tca> If you need your computer to work with, natty is unstable
[21:23] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca: for a separate partition as well?
[21:23] <charlie-tca> It is fine to run in a separate partition, with backups of important data
[21:23] <leoquant> MrChrisDruif, thats great
[21:23] <charlie-tca> There will be days when it will be completely unusable, though
[21:25] <leoquant> X updates are mostly killing
[21:26] <charlie-tca> I run natty on my computer, with complete backups of everything, so I can get to an email or a document in lucid if I need it.
[21:26] <leoquant> (imo) X is key, and major updates stop after the beta release
[21:27] <charlie-tca> agreed, normally at the beta release, it becomes pretty stable for everyone
[21:27] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca: in lucid, alright :)
[21:28] <charlie-tca> but if we can tell the developers, screen-reader install worked yesterday, and today it will not even start, we have a good chance they can find what broke quickly
[21:28] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[21:28] <charlie-tca> If we tell them it worked last month, it is going to take a lot longer to get it fixed
[21:29] <MrChrisDruif> everyone: no further questions?
[21:30] <JackyAlcine> None from me.
[21:31] <Pendulum> okay, great
[21:31] <Pendulum> thanks CHarlie :)
[21:31] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[21:31] <charlie-tca> interest is great!
[21:31] <Pendulum> #topic Blog Volunteers for the next month
[21:31] <meetingology> TOPIC: Blog Volunteers for the next month
[21:32] <Pendulum> so we had a semi-successful first month of blogging :)
[21:32]  * charlie-tca hides now
[21:33] <Pendulum> and now I'd like to schedule in people to blog for each week (starting next week) until our next meeting (which will be the 16th of next month)
[21:33] <Pendulum> so do I have 4 volunteers (with or without topics)?
[21:33] <hajour> if you think it will helpfull i will write a blog if i get some help with writing Pendulum 
[21:33] <Pendulum> hajour: if you'd like, I'm happy to help. Do you have a topic in mind?
[21:34] <UndiFineD> typing ... :)
[21:35] <hajour> maybe about speechcontrol hoe it begon and why speechcontrol started 
[21:35] <hajour> hoe=how
[21:35] <Pendulum> sounds good
[21:35] <hajour> i don't think it will usefull to put a poem in :P XD
[21:36] <Pendulum> hajour: do you want to write it for next week or would you like a little more time?
[21:36] <hajour> a little more time if it is possible
[21:37] <Pendulum> hajour: how about the week of March 9 (3 weeks from now)?
[21:37] <hajour> yes that's fine for me.but if you need earlier i will do it
[21:38] <Pendulum> hajour: nope, that's fine
[21:38] <hajour> ok :)
[21:38] <Pendulum> #action hajour to blog about speechcontrol for week of March 9, 2011
[21:38] <meetingology> ACTION: hajour to blog about speechcontrol for week of March 9, 2011
[21:38] <Pendulum> other blogging volunteers?
[21:39] <JackyAlcine> Ah, I would like to, but to be on the Planet, I'll need to work on it intently. =/ And have time.
[21:39] <hajour> there are a few new here pendule
[21:40] <leoquant> it must be ontopic?
[21:40] <Pendulum> leoquant: it has to be accessibility related
[21:40] <hajour> maybe it has to be more clear what the blog is about Pendulum 
[21:40] <Pendulum> the blog is the blog for the Ubuntu Accessibility Team
[21:40] <leoquant> yeah Pendulum but its a small corner
[21:41] <AlanBell> I intend to get the next persona published
[21:41] <Pendulum> about the only guideline for posts is that it relate to accessibility in Ubuntu in some way
[21:41] <hajour> Pendulum,  we could put a link in speechcontrol wiki from the accessibility blog s 
[21:42] <Pendulum> so far we've had posts about personas, general team info, the indicator buttons, and ones in progress about why accessibility is important (and hopefully one in progress of being written about testing ;) )
[21:42] <hajour> a great AlanBell 
[21:43] <leoquant> but accessibility blogs becomes often so extr. personal/private almost....
[21:44]  * charlie-tca peeks out at Pendulum 
[21:44] <leoquant> but that is its value?
[21:44] <AlanBell> this is the team blog rather than a personal blog
[21:44] <Pendulum> the reason behind having a blog for the team is to increase visibility of the project within the wider community. It's syndicated on planet.ubuntu.com
[21:44] <Pendulum> and based on where the trackbacks were I think has been picked up by some other public aggregators
[21:45] <AlanBell> it does mean that anyone can write an article, without being an Ubuntu Member and it can be on the planet and other places
[21:45] <Pendulum> (certainly we got trackbacks from a couple websites about visual impairment and computing)
[21:47] <Pendulum> if we don't have any other volunteers then I'll post an e-mail to the list
[21:47] <Pendulum> any other volunteers?
[21:47] <Pendulum> maco2: do you want to write about gally?
[21:47] <charlie-tca> I hope to get that article done, but not before next week. I need to get the test case out first. 
[21:47] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: that's fine. do you want me to schedule you in for 2 weeks from now?
[21:47] <hajour> how about to have some trackbacks to from websites about deaf and memory and computing Pendulum 
[21:48] <Pendulum> (I can't poke you that week itself, but I can poke you about it next week)
[21:48] <charlie-tca> no, put in next week or 4 weeks out
[21:48] <hajour> and others
[21:48] <MrChrisDruif> Pendulum: I might surprise you, but I don't want to be tied to it :)
[21:48] <Pendulum> hajour: we haven't had any yet, but that's not something I have control over.
[21:48] <charlie-tca> two weeks is alpha3, I will be testing again all week
[21:48] <Pendulum> hajour: trackbacks are notes that another site has linked back to us
[21:48] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: okay, so next week then?
[21:48] <charlie-tca> okay
[21:48] <maco2> Pendulum: it's inaccessible :P
[21:48] <Pendulum> sounds good
[21:48] <Pendulum> maco2: point taken :)
[21:48] <hajour> a mail to other site s ore they want to have a trackback?
[21:49] <MrChrisDruif> *make
[21:49] <hajour> it can be helpful
[21:49] <Pendulum> #action charlie-tca to write about testing for week of March 2
[21:49] <meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to write about testing for week of March 2
[21:49] <maco2> Pendulum: the saving grace is that you need to be sighted to use what youd learn from it anyway
[21:49] <charlie-tca> That's not next week
[21:49] <Pendulum> bah
[21:49] <maco2> so there's the excuse for it being in a toolkit that's no good for those who aren't sighted ;-)
[21:50] <Pendulum> AlanBell: is there a way to cancel an action?
[21:50] <AlanBell> the minutes go in the wiki and can be edited there
[21:50] <charlie-tca> Next week is good, i can put the test case link in it too
[21:50] <Pendulum> #action charlie-tca to write about testing for week of February 23
[21:50] <meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to write about testing for week of February 23
[21:51] <charlie-tca> yup, that's it
[21:51] <Pendulum> AlanBell or phillw, would either of you be willing to write about web accessibility for the week of March 2?
[21:52] <hajour> what you mean by that maco2 ? :)
[21:52] <AlanBell> well I want to prioritise the persona post
[21:52] <Pendulum> AlanBell: okay. would that work for March 2?
[21:52] <Pendulum> (or that week)
[21:52] <AlanBell> yes
[21:52] <Pendulum> great :)
[21:53] <Pendulum> #action AlanBell to post another personas update week of March 2, 2011
[21:53] <meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to post another personas update week of March 2, 2011
[21:53] <maco2> hajour: it's a program to teach sign language. sign language is visual, so the fact that it's written in qt and screen-readers can't handle it doesn't matter so much since if you're blind, you're probably not able to see someone signing to you
[21:53] <Pendulum> okay, anyone for the week of March 16?
[21:53] <hajour> a ok maco2  hehe
[21:53] <TheMuso> I could write something about unity, and how it differs from traditional GNOME.
[21:54] <Pendulum> TheMuso: that would be wonderful!
[21:54] <TheMuso> I also plan to create an audio/video about how to get around in unity with orca.
[21:54] <phillw> my apologies, I was in PM with a padawan
[21:54] <Pendulum> (especially as people ask me about the Unity stuff)
[21:54] <Pendulum> #action TheMuso to write about Unity in comparison with Gnome for week of March 16, 2011
[21:54] <meetingology> ACTION: TheMuso to write about Unity in comparison with Gnome for week of March 16, 2011
[21:55] <hajour> great TheMuso 
[21:55] <Pendulum> phillw: that's okay, we ended up with enough blogging volunteers :)
[21:55] <TheMuso> And yeah as I said, I plan to do a multimedia presentation about unity and orca.
[21:55] <Pendulum> TheMuso: guess I know what you can blog about in April, then? ;)
[21:55] <TheMuso> You could say that. :) it would be an introduction to my presentation.
[21:56] <Pendulum> okay, moving on since we have volunteers for the next month
[21:56] <Pendulum> #topic Looking for someone to do accessibility interviews
[21:56] <meetingology> TOPIC: Looking for someone to do accessibility interviews
[21:56] <Pendulum> I posted to the list about this and got a lot of responses by people willing to be interviewed, but not so much by people willing to interview
[21:56] <AlanBell> dutchie would be good at that
[21:57] <JackyAlcine> How about SilverFox?
[21:57] <JackyAlcine> >_< She's UBT, sorry.
[21:57] <JackyAlcine> *He
[21:57] <Pendulum> essentially, I had a conversation with jono about how it'd be a great thing to have an interview a month or so on the accessibility blog with a member of the accessibility team
[21:57] <AlanBell> silverfox doesn't do pronouns, and is busy with the other interview series
[21:57] <Pendulum> I think it's a great idea, however, haven't spent 6 months doing Ubuntu Women interviews, I know it's not my forte
[21:57] <Pendulum> so I'm looking for someone willing to do them
[21:58] <Pendulum> s/haven't/having
[21:58] <Pendulum> any volunteers?
[21:59] <Pendulum> (if not, I'll talk to dutchie and see if he's interested as I don't think he's here right now)
[21:59] <hajour> if it was spoken. but writhing :S
[22:00] <Pendulum> okay, I'll poke dutch
[22:00] <Pendulum> *dutchie
[22:00] <AlanBell> there are a few people that could be volunteered for that, MarkDude IdleOne  Cheri703  spring to mind
[22:00] <Pendulum> hehe
[22:00] <hajour> Cheri703, would be good at that btw
[22:00] <Pendulum> well since none of them seem to be actually here, I'll talk to people later :)
[22:00] <hajour> she is very good with talking to people
[22:01] <leoquant> ==bedtime bye
[22:01] <Pendulum> by the way, we're now at an hour. Do people want to continue the rest of the meeting or postpone items to next month?
[22:01]  * AlanBell would like to continue
[22:01] <JackyAlcine> I want to hear about UFA.
[22:01]  * UndiFineD has time
[22:01] <TheMuso> Me too.
[22:01] <hajour> contineu would be fine by me
[22:01] <Pendulum> okay, then, we can continue :)
[22:02] <Pendulum> #topic Ubuntu for All
[22:02] <meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu for All
[22:02] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that's you :P
[22:02] <AlanBell> okies
[22:02] <AlanBell> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll
[22:02]  * Cheri703 would be good at what?
[22:02] <AlanBell> so Ubuntu For All is an idea that has been kicked about a few times over the last couple of years
[22:02] <AlanBell> hi Cheri703 
[22:03] <Pendulum> Cheri703: I'll talk to you after the meeting :)
[22:03] <Cheri703> hi
[22:03] <Cheri703> ok, sorry
[22:03] <Pendulum> no worries :)
[22:03] <AlanBell> the idea is to form a group that kind of makes sure Ubuntu works for everyone, simply enough
[22:04] <AlanBell> there are a bunch of projects in Ubuntu that do that in particular directions, this kind of brings them together
[22:04] <AlanBell> it isn't a council (we have plenty of them already)
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> +!
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> +1
[22:04] <AlanBell> I see it as more of a support team
[22:05] <JackyAlcine> Like a hub of some sort?
[22:05] <AlanBell> I can see it doing things like checking meetings that are scheduled actually happen, checking and helping with team reports/minutes etc
[22:05] <MrChrisDruif> How do you mean that AlanBell? One team pulls it more towards accessibility, other team pulls it...where?
[22:06] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: not pulling so much
[22:06] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll/ProjectList
[22:06] <AlanBell> that is the somewhat tentative project list
[22:07] <AlanBell> they are all projects that were there from the start, or where I have spoken to the team leaders to check they are interested in being involved
[22:08] <AlanBell> I don't see it as being a high activity group, just checking to make sure that all the teams involved keep going and have the resources they need
[22:08] <AlanBell> there is a kickoff meeting which will define the scope of the team
[22:08] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...
[22:08] <phillw> AlanBell: I think it is wonderful idea. letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing, saves duplication.
[22:08] <AlanBell> Friday 25th Feb 19:00UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[22:09] <UndiFineD> I could see our duaghters in ubuntu-younglings :)
[22:09] <TheMuso> Damn can't make that meeting.
[22:09] <MrChrisDruif> Same time as Unity Developers meeting
[22:09] <hajour> AlanBell,  have the ubunti Younglings already a own chat channel?
[22:09] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: that is exactly the idea
[22:09] <AlanBell> hajour: no, not yet
[22:09] <AlanBell> hajour: that is a project I would like to start, but the rules for such a channel would need careful discussion
[22:10] <AlanBell> invite only etc probably
[22:10] <hajour> yes i understand that AlanBell :)
[22:10] <AlanBell> anyhow, all stuff we can discuss on the 25th or in #ubuntu-for-all
[22:10] <JackyAlcine> Hm, wouldn't such a channel need supervision?
[22:10] <hajour> it would be great 
[22:10] <JackyAlcine> To keep them safe online?
[22:10] <phillw> hajour: it would need to be COPPA registered for under 13 years of age.
[22:10] <hajour> yes JackyAlcine 
[22:11] <AlanBell> JackyAlcine: yes, that is what I mean
[22:11] <JackyAlcine> Ah, just checking. :)
[22:11] <phillw> hajour: I'll chat after the meeting.
[22:11] <MrChrisDruif> phillw: coppa?
[22:11] <Pendulum> anyway, Ubuntu Younglings isn't this group. I suspect that's all stuff that can get hashed out in that group :)
[22:11] <hajour> ok phillw 
[22:11] <Pendulum> (or in the U4A meeting)
[22:11] <maco2> MrChrisDruif: you know how you cant ask for any identifying info from childdren under 13?
[22:11] <AlanBell> yes, we are drifting, I just wanted to announce it here
[22:12] <maco2> MrChrisDruif: like how all the websites ask your birthday to verify you're over 13?
[22:12] <MrChrisDruif> Aha...
[22:12] <Pendulum> can we move on?
[22:12] <maco2> yeah sorry
[22:12] <AlanBell> yes
[22:12] <Pendulum> no worries :)
[22:12] <Pendulum> #topic Next Persona
[22:12] <meetingology> TOPIC: Next Persona
[22:12] <Pendulum> AlanBell: you wanted to talk about this too?
[22:13] <AlanBell> yeah
[22:13] <hajour> well Pendulum  a group like that could say very well or programs are accessible is for that age 
[22:13] <AlanBell> ok, next persona is Daniela
[22:13] <hajour> sorry had typed allready :S
[22:13] <MrChrisDruif> acceptable you mean hajour?
[22:13] <Pendulum> hajour: that's okay :)
[22:13] <AlanBell> text as we have it so far is here http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/daniela
[22:13] <AlanBell> and I found a picture here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Daniela
[22:14]  * AlanBell spent an hour on flickr looking for pictures of women in swimming costumes
[22:14] <AlanBell> only realised afterwards it was a bit odd :)
[22:14] <hajour> hehe
[22:14] <UndiFineD> hah
[22:15] <maco2> heh, just head & shoulders with a swim cap would do
[22:15] <AlanBell> maco2: I wanted something more dramatic, she is totally blind remember
[22:15] <hajour> why its just swimming women
[22:16] <maco2> hajour: daniela is a competitive swimmer
[22:16] <hajour> i know
[22:16] <hajour> iu have helped with daniela persona to .by saying things to UndiFineD  maco2 
[22:16] <maco2> hajour: then i dont understand your question
[22:17] <hajour> also i have done swimming contest and i was blind on that time to maco2 
[22:17] <AlanBell> anyhow, I would like more help with the text as we move it towards a blog post like the Faisal one
[22:17] <hajour> i responsed on this maco2  heh, just head & shoulders with a swim cap would do
[22:17] <AlanBell> the Faisal one is now on the wiki by the way https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Faisal
[22:18] <hajour> i find it a great picture AlanBell 
[22:18] <AlanBell> Pendulum: ok, about done with the persona for now
[22:19] <Pendulum> anyone else have anything relating to Daniela?
[22:20] <UndiFineD> she needs a lovely dog and speechcontrol :)
[22:20] <MrChrisDruif> :D
[22:20] <JackyAlcine> +1
[22:20] <Pendulum> okay, moving on
[22:20] <Pendulum> #topic Diversity at UDS
[22:20] <meetingology> TOPIC: Diversity at UDS
[22:21] <MrChrisDruif> Woohoo...I saw it change on the spot :P
[22:21] <Pendulum> last week there was a meeting about Diversity at UDS in the Ubuntu Women channel aimed at increasing the number of women at UDS
[22:21] <UndiFineD> I looked up the hotel, geesh, that is expensive
[22:22] <phillw> it was wonderful to see accessibility brought to a 'must be' instead of an add on
[22:22] <Pendulum> I've requested from jono that we have an accessibility meeting about it too because I've found a lot more people asking me accessibility related questions than asking me questions related to being female at UDS
[22:22] <Pendulum> are people interested in such a meeting?
[22:22] <TheMuso> Yes.
[22:23] <phillw> yes
[22:23] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: UDS hotels are *always* expensive. If you don't get sponsorship, the next best thing is to try to find a cheaper hotel nearby
[22:23] <hajour> we cant afford any hotel Pendulum 
[22:23] <Pendulum> btw, for purposes of UDS I include any sort of "regular" impairment as well as food allergies and anything else that I'm not thinking of but would fall under it
[22:24] <hajour> UndiFineD,  and i
[22:24] <maco2> hajour: or a local ubuntu community person on whose couch you can surf
[22:24] <Pendulum> anyway, so it sounds like there's definitely interest in a meeting
[22:24] <Pendulum> is this a good time of day for people?
[22:24] <JackyAlcine> For me, it's perfect.
[22:24] <maco2> good for me
[22:25] <JackyAlcine> Like right now, right?
[22:25] <Pendulum> either right now or the 21:00 UTC time
[22:25] <Pendulum> (I want to be able to tell jono an approximate time of day so that we can get as many people in it as possible)
[22:25] <hajour> i want to go but i don't no how
[22:25] <phillw> 20:00 or 21:00 is fine by me
[22:26] <hajour> its ok by me Pendulum 
[22:26] <Pendulum> okay, thanks :)
[22:26] <phillw> as long as we're not 2,00 miles away from the UK!
[22:26] <TheMuso> Except for Fridays, every other day of the week at 20/21:00UTC is fine.
[22:26] <hajour> maco2,  its far from herte the UDS
[22:27] <hajour> here
[22:27] <maco2> hajour: so you know, if you can't attend uds, there is also remote participation via audio streams and collaborative text-editors. that's how i'll participate 
[22:27] <Pendulum> I'll be bringing this up with jono when I talk to him tomorrow
[22:27] <maco2> hajour: i meant trying to get people who live near uds to let you couchsurf ;-)  people have done that before
[22:27] <Pendulum> #topic Any Other Business
[22:27] <meetingology> TOPIC: Any Other Business
[22:27] <AlanBell> yes
[22:27] <phillw> Pendulum: it's in Bhudapest?
[22:27] <TheMuso> not from me
[22:27] <maco2> phillw: yes
[22:28] <AlanBell> there is a new theme about to come out for wiki.ubuntu.com
[22:28] <phillw> i would not be attend :( too far.
[22:28] <AlanBell> I got the code today
[22:28] <JackyAlcine> Interesting; what's the catch/
[22:28] <JackyAlcine> *?
[22:28] <hajour> a ok maco2  UndiFineD  have explaind what couchsurf means
[22:28] <AlanBell> http://libertus.co.uk:8083/
[22:28] <AlanBell> ^^ preview of the new design
[22:29] <phillw> AlanBell: you have done outstanding work, as you always do.
[22:29] <AlanBell> at the moment the code isn't in a public place on launchpad as it got mixed up with some other themes
[22:29] <Pendulum> hajour: maco2 can you do that after the meeting?
[22:29] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: would be great if I was able to change themes
[22:29] <AlanBell> phillw: I didn't contribute to this one at all
[22:29] <AlanBell> I just managed to get a copy released to me
[22:30] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: I get this nice message when changing themes: This email already belongs to somebody else.
[22:30] <AlanBell> I can't fix bugs yet, and I am not sure there is somewhere to submit them, but there will be in a few days
[22:30] <phillw> AlanBell: I'm still playing catch up with emails
[22:30] <JackyAlcine> I like it, it's a bit cleaner and more gentle to the eye.
[22:30] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: I can help you submit a request to get that fixed
[22:30] <hajour> AlanBell,  the red is like there are all small mmm how you call that stripes are in what makes the white fonts not clear for me
[22:31] <UndiFineD> I sent a request AlanBell .. not getting fixed
[22:31] <UndiFineD> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/685436
[22:31] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 685436 in ubuntu-website "Cannot change theme" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[22:31] <hajour> from the site from your link
[22:31] <hajour> AlanBell, ^
[22:32] <AlanBell> hajour: what white fonts?
[22:32] <hajour> the white fonts in the red parts
[22:32] <AlanBell> there is Ubuntu wiki in the header, and white on black in the header menu
[22:32]  * AlanBell can't see any other white text
[22:33] <AlanBell> or red for that matter
[22:33] <AlanBell> there is a big orange banner at the top
[22:34] <UndiFineD> there are bugs in the banner
[22:34] <maco2> AlanBell:  meh, red-orange ;-)
[22:34] <Pendulum> okay, I need to head out soon so does anyone mind if I end the meeting and discussion can continue about this outside of the meeting?
[22:34] <AlanBell> fine by me
[22:34] <UndiFineD> but it is too bright for me
[22:34] <phillw> pen np
[22:34] <hajour> ok
[22:34] <JackyAlcine> The new banner, UndiFineD?
[22:34] <maco2> hajour: the text should be much much larger than those stripes...
[22:34] <Pendulum> #endmeeting
[22:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 16 22:34:49 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[22:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-02-16-21.00.moin.txt
[22:34] <AlanBell> thanks Pendulum 
[22:35] <JackyAlcine> o/
[22:35] <phillw> thanks Pendulum
[22:35] <Pendulum> can someone post the minutes, I've just been informed that I need to get ready to go out to dinner
[22:35] <AlanBell> Pendulum: I will do it, have a nice dinner
[22:35] <JackyAlcine> g'night Pendulum
[22:35] <Pendulum> also, I guess tomorrow I'll tell whoever is around about my silly side project that's semi-related to this team (that AlanBell knows about)
[22:36] <maco2> hajour: would bold text help?
[22:36] <Pendulum> Cheri703: will you be around after like 8PM EST?
[22:36] <MrChrisDruif> Have a nice dinner Pendulum :)
[22:36] <Cheri703> as far as I'm aware
[22:36] <AlanBell> ok, so white text on the orange background
[22:36] <maco2> AlanBell: that preview has an ugly on my screen in the form of a grey line going right through the middle of "edit" "info" attachments" as if it were a strikeout
[22:36]  * Cheri703 has been busy with clients/client computers today :)
[22:37] <AlanBell> does the text say "Ubuntu wiki"?
[22:37] <hajour> thank you for chair the meeting Pendulum :)
[22:37] <maco2> AlanBell: i think that's the text she's referring to 
[22:37] <JackyAlcine> How about screen shots from everyone?
[22:37] <AlanBell> JackyAlcine: well I can use browsershots
[22:38] <hajour> i mean
[22:39] <JackyAlcine> It looks okayish on my screen; I like the vibrancy of the previous theme though.
[22:39] <AlanBell> maco2: yes, I get that in firefox too, I have reported that one
[22:39] <hajour> that the orange part where is fonts in with the name ubuntu . it looks like not a whole piece orange but very much slim orange lines 
[22:39] <maco2> hajour: yes, there are very very thin lines. are they rendering very thick on your browser so they interfere with the text?
[22:40] <AlanBell> there is a very faint diagonal pinstripe at the top of the orange banner
[22:40] <hajour> and with  try to read my eye was going see the fonts double
[22:40] <phillw> JackyAlcine: looks fine on both Chromium and FFox for me - the usual problem is for those with poor sight, the text is too small.
[22:40] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: broken diagonal for me
[22:40] <maco2> they show on mine as being probably done with subpixel stuff since they're not even quite a pixel wide, while the text is showing as at least 3px thick.  is the thickness more similar on yours?
[22:40] <AlanBell> and actually, zooming in someone is out by one pixel in the repeating image
[22:40] <hajour> and was after that not able to see anymore a couple of minutes by tears in my eye
[22:40] <JackyAlcine> Why not add letters on the page for sizing?
[22:41] <JackyAlcine> or a Accessibility icon that switches stylesheets?
[22:41] <phillw> JackyAlcine: I've asked about stylesheets.
[22:41] <AlanBell> that is a possibility, but I think they would rather fix it in a way that works for everyone
[22:41] <hajour> AlanBell,  maco2 ^
[22:41] <maco2> are the fonts set by px/pt settings or by %?
[22:42] <maco2> they *ought* to be percent
[22:42]  * JackyAlcine was a webdeveloper before ubuntu. ;)
[22:42] <JackyAlcine> maco2: I can see them locked by px/pt.
[22:42] <maco2> or em
[22:42] <maco2> ugh 
[22:42] <phillw> JackyAlcine: phillw suggested the system that phpbb use.
[22:43] <AlanBell> yeah, I know about the font settings :(
[22:43] <JackyAlcine> It's an etiquette; unless they globalized the font in a * {} and just percent it then.
[22:43] <maco2> they should be % or em that way the user can set their default font size to 24 instead of 16 it actually does something useful 
[22:43] <JackyAlcine> *there
[22:43] <maco2> JackyAlcine: they dont need to. the browser has a global font size
[22:43] <maco2> 16 is the usual default browser global font size
[22:43] <AlanBell> yes, sadly the style guide for the web specifies fonts in pixels
[22:44] <maco2> EWWWWWWWWWWW
[22:44] <AlanBell> the web team follow the style guide religiously
[22:44] <JackyAlcine> maco2: If the page's size is 16pt, usually all of the elements without definition would inherit that size.
[22:44] <JackyAlcine> not the browser definition.
[22:44] <AlanBell> so it is a negotiation with the design team and the web team to get any movement there
[22:44] <JackyAlcine> like in a stylesheet or a deprecated <BASEFONT> tag.
[22:44] <maco2> JackyAlcine: but thats why i am saying the css should not set *anything* by px or pt, ONLY by "percent of browser's setting"
[22:44] <hajour> hajour> that the orange part where is fonts in with the name ubuntu . it looks like not a whole piece orange but very much slim orange lines hajour> and with  try to read my eye was going see the fonts double.<hajour> and was after that not able to see anymore a couple of minutes by tears in my eye
[22:45] <JackyAlcine> maco2: *shrugs* laziness perhaps?
[22:45] <maco2> AlanBell: whoever decided pixels instead of points has a bit of ignorance going on. havent they heard of dpi?
[22:46] <maco2> but still, letting the user have their base font size be set in browser and then you scale by percent is better accessibility
[22:46] <hajour> to small fonts. also
[22:46] <AlanBell> yes
[22:46] <UndiFineD> and by far too bright for me
[22:47] <hajour> i cant read fast on the moment my eye is still not rehabitated from reading the site/trying
[22:47] <phillw> AlanBell: I'm sure that something like http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=2115856&p=12927386#p12927386 is not impossible.
[22:48] <AlanBell> the header consists of this white+transparent image http://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/images/ubuntu-wiki.png
[22:48] <AlanBell> on top of this repeating tile http://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/images/orangeheader-tile.png
[22:49] <hajour> sorry maco2  i don't know or you have said something to me
[22:49] <AlanBell> phillw: actually these days I think that is less important than it used to be as ctrl+mousewheel just does variable zooming on every site
[22:50] <AlanBell> when ctrl+mousewheel is broken that is very bad
[22:50] <maco2> AlanBell: or ctrl+ or ctrl-
[22:50] <AlanBell> same thing
[22:50] <maco2> i keep accidentally zooming my screen all funny when i go to scroll the page :(
[22:51] <maco2> or when i go to move the cursor and it just decides to scroll even though im nowhere near the scroll area
[22:51] <AlanBell> maco2: get your big screen and you will *really* not like sites that use the 960gs framework
[22:51] <maco2> usually this leaves me thinking "hey! i didnt even press ctrl!" :-/
[22:51] <phillw> AlanBell: or when you are using a touch pad and do not have a scrolling mouse?
[22:51] <maco2> phillw: touchpads have a scrolling area on the side
[22:51] <AlanBell> side of my touchpad scrolls
[22:51] <hajour> AlanBell,  if you would ingrease the size of the fonts the stripe problem will not go away
[22:51] <AlanBell> hajour: it isn't a font
[22:51] <AlanBell> it is an image on another image
[22:52] <maco2> even  touchpads that dont have a scrolling area marked and dont scroll in windows.... frequently DO scroll in linux
[22:52] <phillw> AlanBell: so does mine, but ctrl - scroll does not zoom
[22:52] <hajour> its not the font i talk about but the orange part
[22:52] <JackyAlcine> maco2: has to be enabled first.
[22:52] <maco2> phillw: sounds like a bug
[22:52] <maco2> JackyAlcine: i thought it defaulted that way
[22:52] <maco2> for vertical scroll
[22:52] <AlanBell> however I am more bothered about readability of the body text than stuff round the edges
[22:52] <maco2> horizontal defaults off
[22:52] <maco2> and two-finger scrolling defaults off
[22:52] <JackyAlcine> nope, I have to set it everytime I install or run Ubuntu on this laptop of mine.
[22:53] <JackyAlcine> the orange hue, hajour?
[22:53] <AlanBell> I know the stuff in the footer is hard to read, but it is unimportant small print for example
[22:53] <hajour> well i think boths are importanted
[22:53] <maco2> funky. mine doesnt.
[22:53] <AlanBell> if the body text was white on an orange background I would consider that a huge problem :)
[22:54] <hajour> i still have tears in my eye and for to remember i got only 1
[22:56] <AlanBell> http://libertus.co.uk:8083/moin_static193/light/css/typography.css font definitions
[22:56] <hajour> JackyAlcine,  can you say to michael i talk later to him.my eye have to rehastable first i dont see the spellingcontrol line anymorte now also
[22:56] <JackyAlcine> Alrighty
[22:57] <hajour> say i am sorry i now he hav wight long
[22:57] <hajour> JackyAlcine, ^
[23:05] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: you need to send an email to rt at ubuntu.com telling them your email address and launchpad profile URL and the error message you get when changing themes on the wiki
[23:05] <AlanBell> and link to the bug
[23:05] <AlanBell> or, even better
[23:05] <AlanBell> http://rt.ubuntu.com
[23:05] <UndiFineD> ok I will
[23:05] <AlanBell> log in with username ubuntu and password ubuntu and raise a new ticket there
[23:07] <AlanBell> the IS team don't look at bugs or launchpad, they use RT instead, and this is an issue with your profile only so a bug won't fix it
[23:09] <AlanBell> phillw: from reading http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm I think it would be exempt, or not hard at all to comply
[23:09] <AlanBell> feel free to discuss further in #ubuntu-for-all
[23:10] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=16582
[23:12] <AlanBell> that should do it
[23:12] <AlanBell> it might take a while, but it is in the right place now
[23:14] <UndiFineD> thanks
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> First of all, I've got two suggestions: put the next meeting in the topic and put it on the fridge
[23:20] <MrChrisDruif> And we were still discussing the mock up of AlanBell?
[23:20] <UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif: the meeting ended some while ago
[23:21] <UndiFineD> this is the afterparty :P
[23:21] <MrChrisDruif> I know....but hajour is complaining to me about the mock up
[23:23] <hajour> well i only told what happend by looking to that site
[23:23] <MrChrisDruif> Like I said... hajour has got some suggestions
[23:24] <hajour> and i think that maybe my english is nnot good enough to say it clear enough
[23:25] <MrChrisDruif> Want me to say it hajour?
[23:25] <hajour> yes i would appreciate if you want to say it MrChrisDruif 
[23:26] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, here the drop: hajour thinks that the header should be upgraded for improved accessibility
[23:27] <MrChrisDruif> The orange isn't a solid color and gives her tired eyes to read
[23:28] <MrChrisDruif> Because of the diagonal lines, the letters become hazy
[23:28] <MrChrisDruif> I think that should cover what she feels about it...
[23:32] <MrChrisDruif> Update: also the letters in the white part become blurry/unreadable if you zoom in a lot
[23:33] <hajour> ok thanks MrChrisDruif :)
[23:33] <MrChrisDruif> :D
[23:33] <hajour> maco2, AlanBell ^
[23:51] <MrChrisDruif> Bye y'all