[03:19] <RAOF> bryceh, tjaalton: What do you think about switching to r600g by default and announcing a call-for-testing?
[03:19] <RAOF> #dri-devel is being very “why are you trying to fix r600c” and “yeah, we just made sure r600g works with gnome-shell”.
[03:22] <bryceh> RAOF, I'm in favor of switching.  There are trade-offs however
[03:22] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:22] <bryceh> on the one hand, what we have has been tested in the distro and seems reasonably stable aside from a few bugs (which we know about and which look reasonably fixable I guess)
[03:23] <bryceh> on the other hand, upstream is focusing only on the gallium side, so if we upstream bug reports and patches, they'll be more interested
[03:24] <RAOF> Yeah.
[03:24] <bryceh> RAOF, obviously it's insufficient to switch just for the sake of making upstream developer's lives better (c.f. lessons learned with -intel taking this approach)
[03:25] <bryceh> however it's been my experience the ATI guys are much more grounded and give better advice
[03:26] <RAOF> We'd also be following debian and fedora here, so there is at least a bigger testing pool.
[03:26] <bryceh> RAOF, ultimately I think if we switch in order to get better responsiveness from upstream on bugs, then we really ought to take good advantage of it by making sure we forward -ati bugs aggressively
[03:27] <bryceh> RAOF, what were the main reasons we had for sticking with r600c?  just stability concerns?
[03:27] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:28] <bryceh> so then yeah, I think it would be ok, so long as we are attentive to forwarding bugs up
[03:28] <RAOF> We weren't sure whether it would be ready for default, and we hadn't tested it like we have r600c.
[03:29] <bryceh> the -ati guys are easy to work with and have been dependable for sorting out issues when we've pulled in new ati bits late in the release in the past, so I'd not be uncomfortable doing this.
[03:30] <RAOF> Ok.  I'll update the new 7.10.1 snapshot with that in mind.
[03:30] <bryceh> one other thought
[03:31] <bryceh> actually, nevermind
[03:31] <bryceh> when do you think you'll have 7.10.1 ready for upload?
[03:32] <bryceh> if it's going to be more than a week, I'd like to roll out cherrypicks that we know fix issues; the less bugs we have to keep track of, the easier it makes triage ;-)
[03:32] <bryceh> ok, wife is chomping at the bit to go out to dinner (belated valentines day or she just doesn't want to cook tonight... hard to say)
[03:32] <RAOF> Approximately now :)
[03:33] <RAOF> Have dining fun!
[03:33] <bryceh> ok, if you knock something together, email me and I'll upload tomorrow morning
[07:55] <tjaalton> RAOF: yeah, sounds good
[07:56] <RAOF> You wouldn't additionally have any response to the driver selection RFC I sent out to ubuntu-x@ a couple of days ago? :)
[07:56] <tjaalton> ah, let me check
[07:58] <tjaalton> RAOF: the galleon switchover stuff?
[07:58] <tjaalton> uh
[07:58] <tjaalton> gallium
[07:58] <RAOF> tjaalton: Yeah.  Exactly.
[07:59]  * RAOF would *also* like to be involved in a galleon switchover :)
[07:59] <tjaalton> hehe
[08:00] <tjaalton> so that patch would be for people to fall back on r600c if they find r600g unstable for them?
[08:01] <RAOF> It would be to fallback to r600c if they have disabled KMS.
[08:01] <tjaalton> oh right
[08:01] <tjaalton> maybe the second option would work then
[08:01] <RAOF> Currently they can twiddle it with the ForceGallium xorg.conf option.
[08:02] <RAOF> Or, rather, the second option would be so that it falls back to r600c if they've disabled KMS.
[08:02] <tjaalton> and ship r600c in the "other" directory, and drop when UMS support is dropped
[08:02] <RAOF> The first option *additionally* allows users to twiddle gallium/classic.
[08:02] <RAOF> Independent of KMS.
[08:03] <RAOF> I guess I'm undecided on the utility of providing that knob.
[08:05] <tjaalton> hmm, so for r300 the fallback with UMS already happens?
[08:06] <tjaalton> without extra patching
[08:06] <RAOF> With the existing ForceGallium patch, yeah.
[08:06] <tjaalton> ah
[08:06] <RAOF> This is replacing the existing patch, which works but in a way which potentially breaks people who are testing mesa, with a different (upstream approved) solution.
[08:06] <tjaalton> oh right, they all are shipped in the same dir
[08:09] <tjaalton> guess I need to think about it for awhile then :)
[08:09]  * tjaalton grabs a cup of tea
[08:13] <tjaalton> why doesn't gallium work with UMS?
[08:13] <tjaalton> maybe i'm missing something obvious
[08:14] <RAOF> Probably because it assumes the whole gem/ttm kit and caboodle.
[08:14]  * RAOF wonders idly what a caboodle is.
[08:14] <RAOF> Also possible: it's only DRI2, and DRI2 is only available on KMS for radeon.
[08:15] <tjaalton> ah, that's it then
[08:15] <RAOF> (Although that's pretty close to a restatement of requiring gem/ttm)
[08:19] <bryceh> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/kit-and-caboodle.html
[08:25] <tjaalton> RAOF: does classic work with KMS?
[08:25] <RAOF> Yes, it does.
[08:25] <tjaalton> ok
[08:25] <RAOF> Otherwise option 2 would be the trivial solution, yes :)
[08:25] <tjaalton> that makes more sense, yep
[08:25] <tjaalton> right
[08:26] <tjaalton> this patch would be useful as long as UMS is also available
[08:27] <tjaalton> no wait. duh
[08:28] <tjaalton> since kms works with both, the line above is _not_ true :)
[08:28] <tjaalton> though how long is the classic ones supported
[08:28] <tjaalton> are
[08:32] <tjaalton> RAOF: I guess the second option is better. when the option becomes obsolete there'll be a number of people with it in their xorg.conf, that probably have forgot about it by then and wonder why the config broke
[08:33] <RAOF> Heh, yes.
[08:33] <tjaalton> and the second one can be silently dropped at some point
[08:34] <tjaalton> though if it makes upstream there's no need
[08:37] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:37] <RAOF> It can just sit there, waiting for some other driver to do something similar.
[08:38] <tjaalton> right, like... *chrome? :P
[08:39] <RAOF> Oh, wow.  Yeah, I guess they might do something like that!
[08:46] <jcristau> soon each via owner can use a different driver
[08:46] <tjaalton> more drivers than users :)
[09:18] <vish> freaky spam's subject!! "Hello alberto.milone! A lot of software is for windows and macOS! Logic Studio 8 Full Pack with Content" 
[09:18] <vish> but i'm not tseliot! ;p
[09:19] <tseliot> :D
[10:22] <tjaalton> I closed bug 710762 as wontfix
[10:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 710762 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Middle mouse button no longer works (affects: 3) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710762
[10:27] <tjaalton> RAOF: you got a new mesa in the works?
[10:28] <RAOF> tjaalton: 
[10:28] <RAOF> Yeah.  I should push it to git.
[10:29] <bryceh> tjaalton, good call.  Might be worth a brief mention on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
[10:30] <bryceh> well, it's late, time for bed.  cya
[10:31] <RAOF> Night!
[10:31] <tjaalton> bryceh: ok, will add
[10:32] <tjaalton> RAOF: ok, so unity works with the nouveau commit by calim?
[10:32] <vish> tjaalton: unity depends on middle click
[10:32] <tjaalton> vish: you have three buttons right?
[10:32] <vish> iirc it is for "open new instance"
[10:33] <vish> tjaalton: yea, but there is what they have done.. removed the item from the context menu and made it depend on middle click
[10:33] <RAOF> tjaalton: Yeah, for me at least.
[10:33] <tjaalton> RAOF: cool, so I'll be able to test too
[10:34] <tjaalton> vish: well, there are tradeoffs to re-enable it, as described on the commit (also on the bug)
[10:35] <vish> sure, but i think it should be mentioned to the unity folks..
[10:35] <tjaalton> they should've noticed by now
[10:35] <tjaalton> but anyway, where can I find them?
[10:36] <vish> tjaalton: its Bug #709707 btw
[10:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 709707 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Middle click on application icon should open a new window (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709707
[10:36] <vish> tjaalton: on #ayatana
[10:36] <tjaalton> vish: thanks
[10:36] <vish> np..
[10:38] <tjaalton> re-enabling the emulation is possible via input properties, so it should be added to "The GUI" if needed
[11:49] <lool> My desktop doesn't get redrawn properly if I switch to console and back to Xorg, but it does if I switch workspace; is this tracked in a bug already?
[11:49] <lool> (-intel)
[11:50] <tjaalton> bryceh is probably best on top of intel bugs atm, I haven't seen that behaviour on mine
[15:42] <bjsnider> kklimonda, i convinced pitti to change nvidia-common so it's a hard dependency of jockey-common. so starting with natty, to use the nvidia-installer, you'll have to remove all of jockey
[15:44] <kklimonda> bjsnider: that's great news imo :)
[17:13]  * dupondje thanks bryceh & jcristau 
[17:13] <dupondje> issue seems solved :)
[17:26] <bryceh> dupondje, good to hear, what was the fix ultimately?
[17:32] <dupondje> installing your patched version ? .
[17:32] <dupondje> ;)
[17:32] <bryceh> dupondje, ahh good
[17:32] <dupondje> btw, you maby have upload rights to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk-vnc/+bug/711442 ? ;)
[17:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 711442 in vinagre (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "vinagre crashed with SIGSEGV in g_socket_send() (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 269)" [Medium,New]
[17:33] <bryceh> dupondje, I do, but there's also a Patch Pilot on call right now (sconklin) who is on deck for sponsoring these sorts of things
[17:34] <bryceh> dupondje, point him to the bug on #ubuntu-devel and ask for sponsorship
[17:34] <bryceh> dupondje, that'll be the "right way" to handle this.  :-)  If he doesn't respond or if you have any trouble let me know and I'll lend a hand.
[19:44] <ricotz> Sarvatt, i am going to update mesa in edgers, there were quite some nvc0 commits ;)
[19:45] <Sarvatt> ricotz: appreciated! :)
[23:21] <bryceh> weird, after messing around with the keyboard layout prefs dialog debugging some bugs, now my windows no longer take focus when clicked; only when I click the title bars
[23:21] <bryceh> if I set to focus-follows-mouse, that works, but then unset that and back to broken behavior
[23:23] <RAOF> That's highly odd.
[23:23] <RAOF> Does switching to metacity work?
[23:23] <bryceh> this is with metacity running actually
[23:23] <RAOF> Well, that bet I was about to make about it being a compiz problem looks pretty silly now. :)