[02:51] <dutchie> Pendulum/AlanBell: i am around now
[02:51] <dutchie> (ish)
[02:51] <Pendulum> dutchie: I will poke you tomorrow
[02:52] <dutchie> that would probably be a good idea
[02:52] <dutchie> seeing as it is nearly 3 am now 
[06:59] <AlanBell> student ^^
[07:57] <dutchie> AlanBell: :P
[07:57] <dutchie> student that is up at 8 nevertheless
[07:58] <nigelb> dutchie: I suspect he's in France.
[07:58] <dutchie> eh?
[07:59] <nigelb> aah
[07:59] <nigelb> dutchie: ah, sorry.  Confused :D
[08:00] <nigelb> dutchie: you slept at 3 and got up at 8? o.O
[08:01] <dutchie> i think that is due to the large amount of caffeine i consumed last night
[08:06] <nigelb> lol
[15:18] <Pendulum> oh, I said I'd blather about this here this morning since I ran out of time at the meeting last night
[15:19] <Pendulum> I've been beta testing an online cross-platform GUI mobile phone app development program
[15:19] <JackyAlcine> o.O
[15:19] <Pendulum> first app I decided to work on was for this team
[15:19] <Pendulum> I'm not sure if i'll publish it, but I wanted to let people know!
[15:20] <Pendulum> I realise it's a bit ironic to be doing an app about accessibility for a non-accessible platform using (currently) non-accessible software
[15:20] <Pendulum> but it was an easy thing for me to start with in terms of information and just doing something
[15:21] <JackyAlcine> hm. okay
[15:21] <Pendulum> anyway, http://community.spotspecific.com/boards/3/topics/5 is a little about I'm doing with a screenshot of the index for the app
[15:22] <Pendulum> if people are interested, I'll think about publishing once I have things perfect in it
[15:22] <Pendulum> for the record, using this software I can publish for both iPhone and Android
[15:24] <maco> Pendulum: iPhone isn't non-accessible
[15:24] <Pendulum> maco: no, but it's not wonderfully non-accessible
[15:24] <maco> or rather, it has some attempts at accessibility
[15:24] <maco> i am told it's pretty good if you're blind, much better than Android
[15:24] <maco> a kid at school was very excitedly showing me how well it worked for him
[15:25] <Pendulum> err... I mean not wonderfully accessible
[15:26] <Pendulum> I think TheMuso has been considering an iPhone
[15:26] <Pendulum> (I just vaguely remember a conversation about it at a UDS)
[15:27] <maco> i could imagine problems with multitouch for arthritis
[15:38] <Pendulum> I have to admit that for me, my iPhone is fabulous
[15:38] <Pendulum> and substantially more accessible for a lot of things compared to a regular phone
[15:38] <Pendulum> (big buttons, etc.)
[15:38] <Pendulum> but I also use a stylus part of the time (I'd really love a bulked up iPhone stylus that works)
[15:47] <maco> Pendulum: like the one that's pen-size with a brush tip instead of a little super-thin stick? thinkgeek has that...
[15:49] <Pendulum> I relaly need one thicker than that
[15:50] <Pendulum> *really
[15:50] <Pendulum> but I should try that one
[15:57] <Pendulum> Anyway, notice is now there that I'm working on this app (well, was working on it, now sitting on it) and if people want, I'll look into releasing it once I've gotten a chance to clean it up :)
[15:57] <Pendulum> also, Spot Specific is cool, but not accessible yet as far as I know (it's accessible if you can use a mouse, but I haven't really tested with a screen reader yet and it's all webkit, IIRC)
[16:16] <Pendulum> maco: do you have any tips about taking photos of signs? (this afternoon I'm going to be doing photos for a really simple ASL app which will be my next app after the Ubuntu Classroom one I'm working on now)
[16:17]  * AlanBell is doing a BSL app
[16:18] <maco> Pendulum: have a helper. running around to the other side of the camera or trying to aim it on a stand is not easy
[16:18] <maco> the best i can do without a helper is put a mirror behind the camera to check its aim
[16:22] <Pendulum> yeah, my mother's willing to help :)
[16:22] <Pendulum> any suggestions for background colour? I figure I'll be doing the signs infront of my so it's a "what colour t-shirt" question really
[16:23] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I suspect yours will be fancier than mine. I'm just doing an alphabet app with photos and no video
[16:23] <Pendulum> (so lots of screens, but nothing really fancy)
[16:24] <maco> one that contrasts with your skin :P
[16:24] <Pendulum> heh
[16:24] <maco> i dont think you're pale enough for white to be a problem
[16:24] <Pendulum> yeah
[16:24] <Pendulum> I might use blue
[16:24] <AlanBell> smile :)
[16:24] <Pendulum> since that's the colour of the current shirt I'm wearing :)
[16:24] <maco> but i guess one with not a lot of writing would be good
[16:24] <Pendulum> yeah
[16:25] <maco> AlanBell: heh. just dont smile when teaching the sign for "kill" or "murder" or "die" :P
[16:25] <Pendulum> current tshirt is plain blue 
[16:25] <maco> huh. should maybe have a "crimes" lesson in gally?
[16:25] <maco> i just know kill & steal
[16:25] <AlanBell> you don't have a #dd4814 tshirt yet then?
[16:27] <AlanBell> I just know rude signs from that Cee Lo Green song
[16:31] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I will never by choice have a #dd4814 shirt
[16:31] <Pendulum> in fact, I might chance the a11y background colour to #d05630 just because it gives me less of a headache
[16:32] <maco> AlanBell: the funny thing about the cee lo green song in ASL video everybody's all "zomg" about is that ITS NOT EVEN THE RIGHT SIGN
[16:32] <Pendulum> er... a11y app
[16:32] <Pendulum> maco: okay, I wondered about that because it's a different sign from the one I was taught
[16:32] <maco> the sign she's doing is "so what?"
[16:32] <Pendulum> I assumed it was regional variance
[16:32] <Pendulum> but the video is awesome for othe reasons :)
[16:33] <maco> i saw a theory that she had picked it up from a BSL video
[16:33] <maco> either that, or she watches too many mafia movies (that was my theory)
[16:33] <Pendulum> haha
[16:34] <Pendulum> maco: actually looking at wikipedia, she got it from there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity_in_American_Sign_Language
[16:34] <maco> such a page exists? O_o
[16:35] <maco> Pendulum: did didnt read the third sentence
[16:35] <maco> s/did/and/
[16:35] <Pendulum> right
[16:36] <maco> interesting.... i learned what i assume is regional variation on BS
[16:36] <maco> i learned thumb & pinkie
[16:37] <maco> im having trouble differentiating their explanation of "slut" from the sign for girl :-/
[16:38] <AlanBell> I saw a little bit of Glee the other day (by accident, the TV was on and I walked past) and they were doing that song but with "forget you" as the line
[16:38] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that's the radio edit version
[16:39] <maco> if i was signing that song, id sign those two words individually
[16:39] <maco> itd go better with the rhythm anyway
[16:39] <AlanBell> go for it :)
[16:39] <Pendulum> maco: I think it's a matter if distance. I was taught girl came from up near the ear, where slut seems to be just the chin
[16:39] <maco> heh i dont know the rest of the signs, and songs are the hardest thing to interpret
[16:40] <maco> Pendulum: ah ok
[16:40] <maco> for a while i had menstruate and girl mixed up. oops
[17:19] <charlie-tca> Wonderful, they want to make launchpad match the guidelines used for www.ubuntu.com.
[17:19] <charlie-tca> let's get something else half of us can not use
[17:20] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: link?
[17:21] <charlie-tca> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpads-ui-is-evolving
[17:22] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I have a contact person about launchpad issues so I'll start poking now if someone gives me a good explanation I can give to him
[17:23] <Pendulum> (or just a list of issues for me to explain to him)
[17:23] <Pendulum> interested that they mentioned accessibility in the post, though
[17:23] <charlie-tca> orange banner and links, footer that is unreadable if the text size is changed by the user, 
[17:23] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you e-mail it to me?
[17:23] <Pendulum> (sorry in the middle of something else)
[17:23] <charlie-tca> Yeah, you do know they changed the main website so it is more accessibile, right?
[17:23] <Pendulum> yes
[17:24] <Pendulum> this is why I want to know what the issues are *now* rather than what they used to be :)
[17:24] <charlie-tca> I just looked at the website, I still am missing most links in the footer if I grow the text to a size I can read
[17:25] <charlie-tca> To make them all visible requires a 8pt or smaller font
[18:02] <maco> O_o
[18:02] <maco> charlie-tca: why do they go invisible if made big?  overflow=none ?
[18:03] <charlie-tca> When the page is made with big text, using Ctrl+, the links disappear, they seem to be hiding behind each other or something
[18:04] <charlie-tca> If you make the page tiny, using Ctl - , you see many more than when the text is made big. Unfortunately, the entire page grows and shrinks with the text, making it pretty hard to see
[18:05] <charlie-tca> It is a fixed width, fully shrinkable page
[18:06] <maco> charlie-tca: on what browser?
[18:06] <maco> i just zoomed in as far as firefox would let me. i have to scroll left and right to see them all, but nothing seems to be *gone*
[18:08] <charlie-tca> maco: screenshot at http://imagebin.org/138439
[18:08] <charlie-tca> What is under Trademark policy?
[18:09] <charlie-tca> How about the line under Get Ubuntu ????
[18:09] <charlie-tca> there are at least two lines of links missing
[18:10] <maco> i see this http://imagebin.org/138440
[18:11] <maco> and so i suspect browser rendering bug
[18:11] <charlie-tca> I can reproduce it on both firefox 4.0 in natty and 3.6.13 in lucid
[18:11] <charlie-tca> on two different computers
[18:12] <maco> im on 3.6.13 in maverick
[18:12]  * AlanBell tries in natty
[18:12] <maco> it ools like on yours it's zooming *just* the text, not the page
[18:12] <maco> which is rather weir
[18:12] <maco> *weird
[18:12] <maco> so the boxes the text is in are running out of space to hold the now-bigger text
[18:13] <maco> s/ools/looks/
[18:13] <AlanBell> works for me
[18:13] <maco> but i have no idea why only your text zooms without the rest of the page
[18:13] <AlanBell> if you go view-zoom-zoom text only then it zooms text only
[18:13] <AlanBell> untick that and it zooms the page
[18:13] <maco> oh. its optional?
[18:14] <AlanBell> default is unticked
[18:14] <maco> well the way to fix this so that making just text bigger doesnt break shit would be to make the divs sizes be set in ex's and em's
[18:14] <maco> erm
[18:14] <maco> i mean doesnt break stuff!
[18:14] <charlie-tca> Ctrl -  shrinks it like http://imagebin.org/138441
[18:15] <maco> and i have to *pout* at the fact that changing base font size in ff doesnt change the fonts in ubuntu.com....because theyre using px instead of em's grrrr
[18:15] <charlie-tca> zoom text only is not checked
[18:15] <charlie-tca> Looking at the two images, I conclude the page is growing and shrinking
[18:17] <AlanBell> maco: thanks to 960.gs designer types have fallen in love with pixels all over again
[18:17] <charlie-tca> I avoid the website as much as possible, since I can't see all of it
[18:18] <charlie-tca> When they do that to launchpad, I guess my contributions are going to be much less
[18:18] <AlanBell> there is a new style guide on photography and beard maintenance http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf
[18:19] <Cheri703> heh, I'm guessing that was supposed to say brand, but I'm chuckling about a style guide on beard maintenance :D
[18:19] <AlanBell> I meant beards :)
[18:21] <Cheri703> :)
[18:21] <AlanBell> see what I mean!
[19:01] <Pendulum> UDS Diversity meeting (aimed at women) taking place right now in #ubuntu-women-project
[21:37] <JackyAlcine> If this interests anyone, we're working to add speech synthesis to Chromium.
[21:37] <JackyAlcine> https://www.launchpad.net/browserspeak
[21:37] <JackyAlcine> A work in progress.
[22:44] <TheMuso> Pendulum: YES I IN FACT GOT AN IPHONE, TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE SMART PHONE WISE WITH DEACENT ACCESSIBILITY AT THE MOMENT.
[22:45] <maco> TheMuso: your caps lock is on
[22:45] <maco> TheMuso: woah hey....does your screen reader shout when it encounters caps?
[22:46] <TheMuso> Heh yeah it does, and thanks for the heads up, there is a bug with Orca's capslock stuff atm, I am on a notebook atm.
[22:46]  * TheMuso should really dig through git to see if there is a fix upstream for that already, and apply it.
[22:46] <maco> well i figured it's not like you can tell from looking at the screen when it's on
[23:06] <AlanBell> maco: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/spotapp.png
[23:12] <maco> AlanBell: nice
[23:12] <maco> AlanBell: pretty please could you make some photos for BSL for gally?
[23:12] <maco> i need to write in support for more langs, but i also need langs with which to test!
[23:20] <AlanBell> I have a friend I can ask
[23:21] <AlanBell> I don't know it at all so I would be copying the diagrams, no idea if I was doing it wrong
[23:30] <maco> ok