[11:10] <czajkowski> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf  <----- very useful document
[15:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is NCommander.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00]  * rsalveti waves
[15:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110217
[15:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110217
[15:00] <NCommander> Who's here this morning
[15:01] <janimo> hello
[15:02]  * NCommander pokes GrueMaster ogra persia 
[15:02] <NCommander> and davidm
[15:02]  * GrueMaster is pre-caffeinated.
[15:02] <GrueMaster> davidm may be running late.
[15:03] <GrueMaster> (he mentioned it last night in a different channel).
[15:03] <NCommander> ah
[15:03]  * ogra pokes NCommander back
[15:03]  * NCommander is poked
[15:03] <NCommander> k
[15:03] <NCommander> let's go
[15:03] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)
[15:04] <NCommander> Done. Thanks ogra for bringing it up at the release meeting
[15:04] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[15:04] <ogra> i didnt
[15:04] <NCommander> ogra: I thought you said you did in #ubuntu-release
[15:04] <rsalveti> I had one action to talk with cooloney to work on the DVI patches, and he's already working on it
[15:04] <ogra> i just changed our report but that didnt mean that kate used the other tracker
[15:04]  * NCommander coughs
[15:05] <ogra> she does now after our conversation in #ubuntu-release, yes
[15:05] <NCommander> I also did talk with skaet_ on this the other day
[15:05] <ogra> i dodnt think she noticed it in the report
[15:05] <NCommander> ah
[15:05] <ogra> (which is why you should talk to her ;) )
[15:05] <NCommander> either way, its resolved
[15:05] <ogra> yes
[15:05] <ogra> :)
[15:06] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:06] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:07] <NCommander> no comments on the workitem tracker?
[15:07] <ogra> we look pretty good i'd say
[15:08] <NCommander> cool
[15:08] <ogra> we need to move items next week though
[15:08]  * NCommander moves on
[15:08] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:08] <ogra> if there are any we dont make
[15:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:08] <rsalveti> also good :-)
[15:08] <ogra> its on the images since yesterday
[15:08] <ogra> i'll care for the new upstream next week
[15:08] <GrueMaster> And semi-works too.
[15:08] <ogra> the dash isnt fixed in that version
[15:09] <ogra> upstream has the fix already afaik
[15:09] <ogra> upstream is at 3.4 while we are at 3.2
[15:09] <GrueMaster> Is une-efl still seeded in the image or no?
[15:09] <ogra> no
[15:09] <ogra> its gone to universe already
[15:09] <rsalveti> oh, cool
[15:09] <GrueMaster> Ok.  Hadn't checked due to other high priority testing.
[15:10] <GrueMaster> It was useful in that unity-2d can't launch apps yet.
[15:10] <ogra> we're waiting for QT for NEON stuff
[15:10] <ogra> it launches apps for me
[15:10] <ogra> just doesnt show the dash
[15:10] <GrueMaster> Try launching a terminal.
[15:10] <ogra> well, shows it but doesnt get you search results
[15:10] <ogra> i dont have a terminal in the launcher
[15:11] <ogra> and the dash doesnt work
[15:11] <ogra> what i click on in the launcher works here
[15:11] <GrueMaster> Filemanager also crashes, but I think that is due to the icons bug.
[15:11] <ogra> hmm, works for me too
[15:12] <GrueMaster> (can't tell as I have no terminal. )  :P
[15:12] <ogra> i have issues with it on my x86 lappie, but not on the panda
[15:12] <ogra> but as i said. new upstrea pending that will solve the dash issue
[15:13] <GrueMaster> Open the file manager and go to /usr/share/applications.  It will crash trying to display the .desktop icons.
[15:13] <GrueMaster> (which was the alternate way to launch the terminal)
[15:14] <ogra> ah, i didnt try that
[15:14] <ogra> well, overall unity-2d looks ok apart from known bugs
[15:15] <GrueMaster> yep
[15:15] <rsalveti> that's fine
[15:15] <ogra> NCommander, move (if there arent any other issues)
[15:15] <rsalveti> now we need to blog about it :-)
[15:15] <rsalveti> or wait alpha-3
[15:15] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <ogra> rsalveti, davidm alrteady did ;)
[15:15] <ogra> see planet
[15:15] <rsalveti> new kernel for omap3, based on 38-rc5, should work quite same way for us
[15:16] <rsalveti> ogra: nice, will check
[15:16] <rsalveti> for omap 4 cooloney is still working on the DVI patches
[15:16] <rsalveti> once he's done he'll update the ti-omap4-dev branch
[15:16] <ogra> did anyone test the ppa kernel yet ?
[15:16] <rsalveti> janimo?
[15:16] <janimo> I ran it today
[15:17] <janimo> and booted, but reverted to .35 after that
[15:17] <rsalveti> should work, as it's basically upstream
[15:17] <ogra> what didnt work ? ;)
[15:17] <janimo> I tried turning off proc1
[15:17] <janimo> and the command hung
[15:17] <janimo> even if the board did not
[15:17] <ogra> no PM in that kernel
[15:17] <janimo> so no CPU hitplug?
[15:17] <ogra> so thats not surprising
[15:17] <janimo> the sysfs file is exposed though
[15:17] <rsalveti> janimo: don't expect pm to work :-)
[15:17] <ogra> i would think hotplug is a PM feature
[15:17] <janimo> it should not if it does not work
[15:17] <rsalveti> well, pm is there
[15:17] <GrueMaster> That's the same on .35 kernel.
[15:17] <rsalveti> just doesn't work :-)
[15:18] <ogra> GrueMaster, on the natty .35 one ?
[15:18] <janimo> also I saw tiwlann errors in dmesg but maybe I did not nstall some firmware pkg
[15:18] <ogra> there it should work
[15:18] <janimo> did not test much else
[15:18] <rsalveti> janimo: could be
[15:18] <GrueMaster> Mmm.  May have been mav.
[15:18] <janimo> as I wanted to build mono and did not want to risk an oops or something
[15:18] <ogra> natty .35 has the PM patches
[15:18] <rsalveti> natty should be fine
[15:18] <GrueMaster> I hit it testing f-spot last night.
[15:18] <rsalveti> I tested yesterday while testing mono
[15:18] <ogra> .38 wont have or get them though
[15:18] <janimo> rsalveti, so tiwlan on panda should work without TI PPA now?
[15:18] <rsalveti> put second cpu off and still going fine
[15:19] <janimo> that would be nice
[15:19] <rsalveti> janimo: yup, just need the right firmware
[15:19] <janimo> hmm, so a restriced package just as on x86?
[15:20] <janimo> without needed to fetch from the TI ppa?
[15:20] <ogra> likely that way
[15:20] <persia> Is the firmware merged into linux-firmware?
[15:20] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:20] <ogra> persia, not yet
[15:20] <janimo> anyway we'll discuss in #arm  later
[15:20] <ogra> and i think the codebase isnt fully merged either yet
[15:20] <rsalveti> but no other news from TI
[15:20] <rsalveti> nor Linaro, about newer changes for OMAP 4
[15:20] <ogra> we have to wait for TI's "go"
[15:20] <janimo> do TI make a new code drop in the PPA sometime?
[15:21] <janimo> ok
[15:21] <rsalveti> once we have the "go" we can update the branch and publish it to the ppa
[15:21] <ogra> janimo, for natty, yes, but note they are not bound to release schedule
[15:21] <janimo> sure
[15:21] <ogra> its a PPA after all
[15:21] <ogra> just needs to be ready by release
[15:21] <janimo> I see tiwlan firmware on x86 so maybe I just need to get that pkg on the panda too
[15:21] <janimo> if it is built against this kernel version
[15:21] <ogra> try it :)
[15:21] <rsalveti> current schedule ways that we'll have a working 38 kernel days before the final release hehe :-)
[15:22] <rsalveti> *says
[15:22] <ogra> if it works we can just pull it over
[15:22] <rsalveti> we'll see :-)
[15:22] <rsalveti> move?
[15:22] <ogra> well, as long as we have sound and display we can drop .35 imho
[15:22] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:22] <rsalveti> ogra: probably
[15:23] <ogra> the other features will just stream in
[15:23] <GrueMaster> This week has been busy with a flurry of kernel updates from the kernel team on older releases.
[15:23] <ogra> and network :)
[15:23] <ogra> oh, we moved =
[15:23] <persia> And USB, please.
[15:23] <GrueMaster> sigh.
[15:23] <ogra> persia, network expects USb
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Kernel updates for Lucid and Maverick on Dove have a serious regression in that they corrupt the console output.
[15:24] <rsalveti> ouch
[15:25] <GrueMaster> Also working on a revised script for pulling a bug list from LP that better suits the teams needs.  WIP.
[15:26] <GrueMaster> May not be able to get everything as some search query capabilities appear to be missing from lplib.
[15:27] <ogra> file bugs ;)
[15:27] <GrueMaster> Linaro team has me hopping on some old (karmic) bugs.  Apparently they can't reproduce the failures on natty with newer platforms.  Go figure.
[15:27] <ogra> heh
[15:27] <GrueMaster> ogra: planned on it once I can dive back in.  Kernel testing preempted this for the moment.
[15:28] <GrueMaster> That's it for QA.
[15:28] <ogra> great
[15:29] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:29] <janimo> triaged/tested and closed a few bugs in yesterday's porting jam
[15:29] <NCommander> Did some debugging work on mono, made some interesting progress
[15:30] <janimo> fixed one more alignment related FTBFS during the week
[15:30] <NCommander> janimo: any chance you looked at kdebindings? I'm stumped on that build failure, and a second set of eyes might help
[15:30] <janimo> NCommander, ok, will take a look
[15:30] <ogra> the mono smp finding was awesome, kudos to rsalveti and GrueMaster !!
[15:30] <janimo> yes
[15:31] <NCommander> ogra: unfortunately, even adding memory barriers to mono doesn't quite fix it :-(
[15:31] <NCommander> If anything, it breaks worse now
[15:31] <rsalveti> urgh
[15:31] <janimo> I think both banshee bugs have the same root and should be dupes
[15:31] <GrueMaster> It will be a major step in the right direction.
[15:31] <rsalveti> NCommander: did you talk with upstream already?
[15:31] <NCommander> rsalveti: yeah, and we cooked a patch
[15:31] <janimo> NCommander, did they have a patch in 2.8 or 2.10 already?
[15:31] <NCommander> http://pastebin.com/aRZ0R2HK - for reference
[15:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pastebin.com/aRZ0R2HK - for reference
[15:32] <ogra> NCommander, it works with nosmp
[15:32] <NCommander> janimo: no charges to the code in 2.8 or 2.10, I am working against 2.10 for the moment with intergration with upstream
[15:32] <NCommander> ogra: yes, I know :-)
[15:32] <ogra> rthats a massive progress
[15:32] <rsalveti> we can just say, turn one cpu off in case you want to play music with banshee :-)
[15:33] <janimo> NCommander, is that for armv6?
[15:33] <ogra> rsalveti, if PM works ;)
[15:33] <NCommander> janimo: and great, we're continuing to work on it :-/
[15:33] <rsalveti> ogra: haha, true
[15:33] <janimo> on ARMv7 memory barrier is DMB I think no coprocessor instrucitons involved
[15:33] <ogra> but yeah, gross hack but would work
[15:34] <NCommander> janimo: we decided for the sake of upstream to do it with the MCR instruction so they don't have to specifically decide at runtime which ARM variant we're on :-/
[15:34] <janimo> NCommander, from what I've seen in the code they test for armv7 in a few places already, but it's ok
[15:35] <NCommander> janimo: I think I figured out why our code is busted though
[15:35] <janimo> what seems interesting is that on their CI site (monkeywrench) 2.8/arm/ubuntu 9.04 passes tests
[15:35]  * NCommander is now more awake and relooking at the patch
[15:35] <davidm> G;day NCommander ogra janimo rsalveti GrueMaster persia
[15:35] <ogra> how about discussing that offline ?
[15:35] <ogra> seems to get a bit to much into detail for the meeting
[15:35] <GrueMaster> janimo: 9.04 was armv5 iirc.
[15:36] <janimo> GrueMaster, oh that would explain a lot of things
[15:36] <ogra> yes
[15:36] <ogra> 9.04 was essentially debian recompiled
[15:36] <janimo> they don;t have more arm boards to set up more CI boxes. too bad
[15:37] <GrueMaster> They can order panda's.  :P
[15:38] <ogra> move ??
[15:38] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:39] <ogra> failed today (as all arches did)
[15:39] <GrueMaster> yep
[15:39] <ogra> thanks to computer-janitor
[15:39] <ogra> lool fixed that afaik
[15:41] <GrueMaster> Zzzzzz
[15:41] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[15:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:41] <ogra> flash-kernel has issues with panda with the new kernel
[15:41]  * NCommander groans
[15:42] <ogra> specifically with linaro using a unified omap flavour
[15:42] <NCommander> ogra: ugh, they changed omap4 to use 'omap'?
[15:42] <ogra> but also with the kernel reporting omap4 boards differently
[15:42]  * NCommander notes that breaks a ton of sanity checks ...
[15:42] <ogra> NCommander, yes
[15:42] <ogra> that was on their roadmap for quite some time
[15:43] <GrueMaster> How will that even be possible?
[15:43] <ogra> ??
[15:43] <ogra> it apparently works
[15:43] <GrueMaster> Can one kernel run both platforms?
[15:43] <ogra> ask linaro kernel devs how they did it
[15:43] <ogra> sure
[15:43] <GrueMaster> ok
[15:43] <rsalveti> sure, at least one omap kernel for all
[15:43] <rsalveti> that's the upstream direction
[15:43] <ogra> well, i guess it wont run on omap2
[15:44] <rsalveti> hehe, true
[15:44] <rsalveti> omap 3 and omap 4
[15:44] <ogra> but who has the hw to test that anyway
[15:44] <GrueMaster> Oh, boohoo.
[15:44] <rsalveti> nobody cares for omap 2 anymore
[15:44] <ogra> anyway, just wanted to mention it
[15:44] <ogra> aob seemed appropriate
[15:44] <GrueMaster> Interesting.
[15:44] <rsalveti> and soon just one u-boot too
[15:44] <ogra> we need to look into that
[15:44] <ogra> and most likely reqork some of the subarch detection
[15:44] <rsalveti> x-loader should still be different for the moment, as it needs the hardware id
[15:44] <GrueMaster> ...and in the darkness, bind them.
[15:45] <ogra> (as we need to do for blaze anyway to fix the open bug)
[15:45] <janimo> these are all post natty right? unified uboot and kernel
[15:45] <ogra> janimo, fixing flash-kernel is natty
[15:45] <ogra> bootloaders arent
[15:45] <rsalveti> janimo: unified probably
[15:45] <janimo> right, I mean omap3/4 unification
[15:45] <janimo> binaries
[15:45] <ogra> and will likely require HW changes anyway
[15:45] <ogra> the rom code wont just handle unified x-loader
[15:46] <rsalveti> nops
[15:46] <ogra> janimo, unified kernels are reality in linaro
[15:46] <rsalveti> but only one u-boot and kernel is cool enough already
[15:46] <ogra> and flash-kernel currently breajs for them
[15:46] <ogra> 'breaks
[15:46] <rsalveti> lool seems to be fixing it
[15:46] <ogra> lool fixes upstream
[15:47] <ogra> we need to fix it downstream for the moment
[15:47] <ogra> debian doesnt support omap4 yet
[15:47] <ogra> and i dont even thing omap3 atm
[15:47] <persia> So we should have unified kernels in "linux" for natty+1?
[15:48] <rsalveti> at least for omap
[15:48] <ogra> yes
[15:48] <persia> Cool.
[15:48] <ogra> possibly +2 who knows
[15:48] <ogra> in any case linaro has it today
[15:48] <ogra> anyway, thats all from me
[15:49] <rsalveti> I'm also done
[15:49] <NCommander> anything else?
[15:49] <rsalveti> move! :-)
[15:52] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:52] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:52.
[16:03] <lool> rsalveti: I'm not working on Ubuntu's flash-kernel ATM
[16:03] <rsalveti> lool: yeah, ogra explained
[16:03] <lool> rsalveti: So I don't think I'll be fixing any Linaro/Ubuntu issue soon; the work I'm doing is rather longer term investment in having a more useful flash-kernel
[16:03] <rsalveti> but good anyway
[16:04] <ogra> lool, thats what i expected
[16:04] <lool> In any case, I kept relatively quiet on this because I don't want to discourage people from improving flash-kernel just because I might possibly be working on it
[18:46] <beardygnome> hi charlie-tca, we're selling our house at the moment and I've got someone coming round to see it for the first half of the meeting, but will try to make the second half.
[18:46] <charlie-tca> Okay, thanks for letting me know
[18:47] <charlie-tca> take your time with the house. That is more important
[18:47] <beardygnome> cheers charlie-tca, catch you later
[18:58] <charlie-tca> I would like to keep this a short meeting. I am already a week behind on minutes from last week, so we got to wing it a bit
[18:59] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting
[18:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:59. The chair is charlie-tca.
[18:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:00] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the Xubuntu Weekly community meeting
[19:00] <charlie-tca> The full agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:00] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old Business
[19:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Old Business
[19:01] <charlie-tca> Since I am behind on the minutes, does anyone remember if there is any old business to discuss?
[19:01] <knome> marketing
[19:01] <knome> says agenda
[19:02] <knome> no - i think that's for the prev meetin
[19:02] <knome> +g
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Yes, we still need to create a marketing plan on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
[19:02] <charlie-tca> any volunteers to do that?
[19:02] <ochosi> yeah, btw i'm sorry since i wasn't here the last couple of days i didn't manage to move the publicity-section from shimmer-wiki to the xubuntu wiki yet
[19:03] <charlie-tca> No problem, I remembered you were gonna be busy
[19:03] <knome> don't add a specific action for me, but i'll work on the marketing plan, probably with ochosi and mr_pouit (and maybe pleia2)
[19:03] <charlie-tca> and make it on the wiki?
[19:04] <knome> it would be great if ochosi could take the item so we can move our plans to the ubuntu wiki once we have something more
[19:04] <Sysi> knome suggested it for me once but i'll propably be just watching and trying to learn
[19:04] <charlie-tca> Okay, carried forward then
[19:04] <knome> i need to go toi toilet, but you could even make it a shimmer action
[19:04] <knome> :P
[19:04] <charlie-tca> (yes, i am in a bit of a hurry today)
[19:05] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] shimmer project to move items pertaining to Xubuntu to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
[19:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  shimmer project to move items pertaining to Xubuntu to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
[19:05] <charlie-tca> Thanks, knome
[19:06] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates - Team Leads
[19:06] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
[19:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your turn for updating us
[19:07] <mr_pouit> okay, sorry for being late
[19:07]  * charlie-tca thinks you got here right on time, packaging and development updates
[19:07] <mr_pouit> * More syncs from debian experimental
[19:07] <mr_pouit> * Updated xfce4-session and tumbler to the latest upstream releases
[19:07] <mr_pouit> * More bugfixes/improvements for xubuntu-default-settings (Bug #79053, Bug #718177, mostly menu tuning, feedback welcome!)
[19:07] <mr_pouit> * Uploaded update-notifier to fix restarting with 4.8 (Bug #716905)
[19:07] <mr_pouit> * Fixed a few plugins to work with the new panel (xfce4-weather-plugin, xfce4-timer-plugin).
[19:08] <charlie-tca> I want to say the weather plugin is working in Natty now
[19:08] <mr_pouit> great
[19:08] <mr_pouit> and some bugs reported for the integration with ubiquity
[19:08] <mr_pouit> that's all
[19:08] <charlie-tca> You have been busy!
[19:08] <mr_pouit> as I wrote, some feedback is welcome for the menu
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Thank you for your hard work.
[19:09] <ochosi> one more quick note in the packaging department from me: i'm working hard on making gmusicbrowser final for natty, should be ready next week before the freeze
[19:09] <ochosi> iirc micahg does the packaging of that one?
[19:10] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:10] <mr_pouit> (yeah, the two remaining items are a new elementary-icon-theme release and gmusicbrowser)
[19:10] <charlie-tca> and the wallpaper, right?
[19:10] <knome> that isn't a "feature" ?
[19:10] <micahg> yeah, I've been trying, I need to get someone to show me how to get the debian upstream dir not to import
[19:10] <ochosi> yep about elementary icons: talked with upstream today, they will do a new release for us in time for the feature freeze and will also accept our packages until then
[19:10] <mr_pouit> yeah, but it can be uploaded after feature freeze (next thursday)
[19:10] <mr_pouit> (the wp)
[19:10] <charlie-tca> okay
[19:11] <ochosi> micahg: can we talk about gmusicbrowser in #xubuntu-devel after the meeting?
[19:11] <mr_pouit> for the icon theme and gmb, it's easier it they are ready before that :)
[19:11] <mr_pouit> s/it/if/
[19:11] <charlie-tca> micahg: mr_pouit or cody-somerville should be able to help with that, can't they?
[19:11] <micahg> charlie-tca: well, it's a git issue
[19:11] <charlie-tca> oh
[19:12] <charlie-tca> any other questions for Packaging and Development?
[19:12] <charlie-tca> thank you, mr_pouit.
[19:12] <mr_pouit> :)
[19:13] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
[19:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Busy couple of weeks. This week we tested the iso images for 10.04.2
[19:13] <charlie-tca> and they passed
[19:13] <charlie-tca> I fell down on bugs again, but will pick them up next week
[19:14] <charlie-tca> We need some testers and probably a new testing lead, if anyone is interested
[19:15] <charlie-tca> We need to have some more people looking at Natty, so we can get the feedback to mr_pouit and ochosi in time for any changes needed.
[19:15] <charlie-tca> We have Natty Alpha3 coming out in two weeks.
[19:16] <ochosi> mhm, good point
[19:16] <ochosi> > marketing?
[19:16] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu 10.04.2 will be released either today or tomorrow, depending on testing for Kubuntu and Ubuntu
[19:16] <charlie-tca> what marketing?
[19:17] <charlie-tca> did I get lost again?
[19:17] <knome> next topic?
[19:17] <Sysi> i didn't get alpha2 to boot from usb, syslinux config fail
[19:17] <charlie-tca> any questions on bugs and testing?
[19:17] <ochosi> (no i meant: maybe getting more people to test is also an issue for marketing)
[19:17] <charlie-tca> Sysi: correct
[19:18] <knome> i suppose it's an issue for anything
[19:18] <charlie-tca> If you create the image on 10.10 or 10.04, you have to type "live" or " help" at the boot:  prompt
[19:18] <charlie-tca> then it will work
[19:18] <charlie-tca> and I don't know why
[19:18] <mr_pouit> I guess unity is getting all attention, that's why we have less testers
[19:19] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
[19:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
[19:19] <charlie-tca> We do have users running Natty, and they are quite happy so far
[19:19] <charlie-tca> anyone have an update on this? pleia2 or knome maybe?
[19:20] <knome> no updates. i suppose pleia2 should investigate if we can switch to wordpres
[19:20] <knome> +s
[19:20] <pleia2> I was supposed to ask knome to do some drafts with a grey background and a black background as some folks requested at the last meeting, but I didn't
[19:20] <knome> pleia2, well now you did :)
[19:20] <pleia2> :)
[19:20] <charlie-tca> I am sorry, it would have helped if I had gotten the minutes out
[19:20] <pleia2> not sure who I can follow up with re: wordpress, would that be cody? or canonical?
[19:21] <knome> pleia2, probably canonical IS would be the best place to ask
[19:21] <charlie-tca> I don't know for sure
[19:21] <charlie-tca> I think it is Canonical, though
[19:21] <knome> pleia2, afaik cody can't decide anything (he can help on us getting what we want though)
[19:21] <pleia2> ok, I can submit an rt ticket to get things started
[19:21] <charlie-tca> okay
[19:21] <knome> pleia2, err, if there is any other way, please use that
[19:21] <charlie-tca> You want an action for any of that?
[19:22] <knome> it took over two years for my last rt tickets to go through
[19:22] <knome> and they were really trivial
[19:22] <pleia2> knome: the process I tend to find works best is submit rt ticket, then join #canonical-sysadmin after a couple weeks and ask directly :)
[19:22] <knome> pleia2, sure, feel free to ask me to join as well
[19:22] <charlie-tca> It helps to know how to push
[19:23] <pleia2> but they are currently under a lot of pressure to upgrade the wiki, so I'm not hopeful that they'll have time in the super near future
[19:23] <pleia2> (they have wiki plans that are being put into place these next few weeks, yay!)
[19:23] <charlie-tca> A nice change for O maybe?
[19:23] <knome> pleia2, also, do you have time to look at the website later today - let's say at 22 or 23 utc?
[19:23] <pleia2> knome: I can try, I don't get out of work until 1UTC
[19:24] <knome> okay. ping me @ #shimmer
[19:24] <pleia2> k
[19:24] <knome> anyway, i have a proposal
[19:24] <charlie-tca> Thank you for the update, pleia2.
[19:24] <knome> let's arrange a skype meeting to discuss the marketing plans
[19:24] <charlie-tca> knome: proposal for here or for pleia2 ?
[19:24] <knome> as well as possible changes to the xubuntu strategy document
[19:24] <knome> here
[19:24] <charlie-tca> go ahead
[19:24] <knome> ^ there you go ;)
[19:25] <charlie-tca> Don't we all need skype to do that?
[19:25] <knome> yeah. we can do any other voip-call as well, if skype is a problem
[19:25] <charlie-tca> I don't have any, but you can conference me in, if needed
[19:25] <knome> but i think it would make much more sense if we could really discuss things
[19:26] <Sysi> does everybody have a microphone?
[19:26] <knome> not only by typing
[19:26] <knome> arrangeable, i think
[19:26] <charlie-tca> No, but I can get one
[19:26] <knome> i'm not proposing on keeping the meeting now, but arranging one later
[19:26] <charlie-tca> okay, knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
[19:26] <knome> you can add an action item for me to do some preparation stuff for that
[19:27] <Sysi> (mumble?)
[19:27] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
[19:27] <MootBot> ACTION received:  knome is to set up a tele-conference of some type to discuss marketing
[19:27] <charlie-tca> leaves it nicely open to what ever can be done
[19:27] <knome> ...as well as the strategy document and the future of xubuntu
[19:27] <knome> :)
[19:28] <charlie-tca> I don't think I can hit that one today, but it is still in the minutes, too
[19:28] <charlie-tca> I keep carrying it forward
[19:28] <knome> sure
[19:28] <charlie-tca> visibility counts
[19:29] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] artwork
[19:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  artwork
[19:29] <mr_pouit> Not an update, but a todo item: we need someone to update the slideshows displayed during the installation, they are badly outdated (they were made for karmic or lucid)
[19:29] <mr_pouit> (sorry, that was for marketing)
[19:29] <charlie-tca> valid point
[19:29] <ochosi> yeah, true
[19:29] <charlie-tca> that is artwork too
[19:29] <knome> artwork but documentation as well
[19:29] <charlie-tca> That just hits everything, huh?
[19:30] <knome> mmh
[19:30] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] find someone to update the slideshow
[19:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  find someone to update the slideshow
[19:30] <knome> i can work on the technical/artwork side
[19:30] <charlie-tca> ochosi: any updates?
[19:30] <knome> but i need somebody who knows natty
[19:30] <charlie-tca> I kind of know natty
[19:30] <ochosi> hm, yeah, small updates
[19:31] <ochosi> mr_pouit helped me figure out the last remaining issues for panel-plugins in greybird
[19:31] <charlie-tca> knome: we will get together somehow on it
[19:31] <ochosi> i think in alpha3 everything should work great
[19:31] <Sysi> i'll be testing natty (and i have archlinux with xfce 4.8)
[19:31] <ochosi> but the changes are not comitted yet
[19:32] <ochosi> i have to test it a bit more and and clean up the code for the panel in greybird (which i couldn't do yet since i was away till today)
[19:32] <ochosi> the xfwm theme is still missing the stick-button, but i'll add the one from bluebird for now, i think it'll work ok and then the xfwm-theme is also complete
[19:33] <charlie-tca> ochosi: can it be done by Feature Freeze on the 24th?
[19:33] <ochosi> those two items can be done, yes
[19:33] <ochosi> i'm also looking for problems in the icon theme
[19:33] <ochosi> so far everything seems ok
[19:34] <charlie-tca> ouch, I forgot, I got one more for you
[19:34] <ochosi> especially after i've done the appfinder-icon
[19:34] <ochosi> yes?
[19:34] <mr_pouit> (even if it's not fully ready, it's more bugfixes than new features, so it's ok to upload later imho)
[19:34] <charlie-tca> change the cursor color and size, it reverts to default in parts of the desktop and windows
[19:35] <ochosi> cursor-color and size means mouse-cursor?
[19:35] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:35] <ochosi> hm, to be honest i
[19:35] <ochosi> 've never dealt with the mouse pointer
[19:35] <charlie-tca> It will be the changed cursor in the window, then revert in the title bar
[19:35] <Sysi> charlie-tca: for what i know it's common 4.8 problem
[19:35] <charlie-tca> darn
[19:35] <charlie-tca> Thanks, Sysi
[19:36] <Sysi> (have it on arch too)
[19:36] <ochosi> k, so i guess that's an upstream bugreport, not artwork :)
[19:36] <charlie-tca> Well, never mind then
[19:36] <mr_pouit> yeah, it was present in 4.6 already
[19:36] <charlie-tca> Any questions or comments for artwork?
[19:36] <Sysi> but it's after X restart too?
[19:37] <ochosi> ok, if anyone finds other missing or problematic icons in elementary (pulled from launchpad/bzr), please let me know
[19:37] <charlie-tca> It depends on the theme, Sysi
[19:38] <charlie-tca> some do it no matter what, others are not as bad when starting, but get worse over time
[19:38] <Sysi> still propably upstream thing
[19:38] <charlie-tca> yeah
[19:38] <charlie-tca> since it does spread itself over many themes
[19:38] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC]Discuss panel launchers for natty
[19:38] <MootBot> New Topic: Discuss panel launchers for natty
[19:38] <ochosi> ok, the generic icons/launchers should also be ready for natty, haven't tested them yet personally
[19:39] <charlie-tca> Are they in natty, or need to be downloaded?
[19:39] <ochosi> should be uploaded already
[19:39] <ochosi> right mr_pouit ?
[19:40] <knome> left charlie-tca
[19:40] <knome> har har
[19:40] <charlie-tca> I will be testing the images this weekend
[19:40] <knome> :)
[19:40] <ochosi> what a funny knome :)
[19:40] <ochosi> ok great
[19:40] <mr_pouit> yep, uploaded already
[19:41] <charlie-tca> Thank you, ochosi and mr_pouit
[19:41] <charlie-tca> anything else for the default launchers?
[19:41] <ochosi> my suggestion for panel items would be something like: Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword | Folders and maybe Trash
[19:41] <ochosi> oh, and Software Center
[19:41] <Sysi> terminal in panel is.. handy but questionable
[19:42] <charlie-tca> software center ? people really use that?
[19:42] <Sysi> i think advertising it would be good
[19:42] <charlie-tca> I agree with the panel launcher list as presented then
[19:42] <ochosi> oh, and Appfinder
[19:42] <Sysi> if it fits our target groups
[19:43] <ochosi> ok
[19:43] <Sysi> personally i've never used appfinder, and would it give good picture about xubuntu?
[19:43] <charlie-tca> [IDEA] Default panel launchers to be Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword SoftwareCenter Appfinder | Folders
[19:43] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Default panel launchers to be Desktop | Browser Email Musicplayer Terminal Abiword SoftwareCenter Appfinder | Folders
[19:44] <charlie-tca> appfinder is xfce specific and it is great
[19:44] <ochosi> +1
[19:44] <Sysi> though i don't see real promlems in about anything added to panel
[19:44] <ochosi> and: it will get even better in xfce 4.10
[19:44] <charlie-tca> It lets you find any app on the computer, whether or not they show in the menus
[19:45] <charlie-tca> and it is fast. I have been using in Natty, since we didn't have a menu when I upgraded.
[19:46] <charlie-tca> I did tell a gnome guy to use one day, that was bad
[19:46] <charlie-tca> s/use one/use appfinder one
[19:46] <charlie-tca> any other comments on launchers?
[19:46] <ochosi> sry people, g2g
[19:47] <ochosi> will read the log tomorrow
[19:47] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
[19:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
[19:47] <charlie-tca> I have one announcement - Xfce is starting on 4.10 now, to be ready in January 2012.
[19:47] <charlie-tca> It will include Accessibility built in, if it goes according to plan
[19:48] <charlie-tca> and if it stays on schedule - ready for LTS release in April 2012
[19:48] <mr_pouit> thunar 1.3.0 is already out (first development release for 4.10)
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi
[19:49] <charlie-tca> late agaibn
[19:49] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[19:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[19:49] <charlie-tca> Does anyone have anything further for this meeting?
[19:50] <charlie-tca> I propose we take up the strategy document starting in three weeks, a bit at a time.
[19:50] <charlie-tca> the meeting of March 10 is what I am thinking
[19:51] <charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for attending and participating in this meeting.
[19:52] <charlie-tca> we will have another meeting in one week, 2011-02-24 at 19:00 UTC
[19:52] <charlie-tca> Thanks, all
[19:52] <charlie-tca> #endmeeting
[19:52] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:52.
[19:53] <charlie-tca> and we will need to discuss alternate meeting times later too
[20:06] <beardygnome> hi, is the meeting still going?
 Meeting finished at 13:52.
[20:08] <beardygnome> cheers, i'll catch up with charlie-tca in xubuntu-devel