[00:06]  * brobostigon-g1 retuens on yaaic
[00:09] <brobostigon-g1> hmm
[00:10] <brobostigon-g1> as soon as i go to an email from notification it seems to disconect me.
[00:10] <brobostigon-g1> weird.
[00:28]  * dwatkins takes pictures of Eeyore
[01:04] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] End of an era - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/02/17/end-of-an-era
[01:05] <penguin42> erm that's possibly the most random thing to end up being posted by that
[01:05] <hcfd> Hi guys. Can anyone tell me the best/fastest way to get Sun/Oracle Java RE 6 Update 3?
[03:02] <hazrpg> \o hey all
[05:00] <shauno> morning hazrpg
[05:03] <hazrpg> morning
[05:03] <hazrpg> holy cow just realised it was 5am xD
[05:03] <shauno> heh, yup.   up at the crack of stupid for work
[05:04] <shauno> btw, scroll up in -minecraft and see if you've got any input :)
[05:05] <hazrpg> how far am I scrolling up?
[05:05] <hazrpg> :P
[05:06] <shauno> just the last hour or so
[05:17]  * ball sighs
[05:18] <hazrpg> ؟
[05:18] <MartijnVdS> ¿
[05:18] <hazrpg> whoops... that was the wrong keyset
[05:18] <hazrpg> <== has arabic installed too
[05:19] <MartijnVdS> but.. you have to type that backwards!
[05:20] <shauno> !esnesnon
[05:20] <hazrpg> ماما :)
[05:20] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: are you my mummy?
[05:20] <hazrpg> my arabic writing/typing is really poor though :(
[05:20] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: google translate :P?
[05:21] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: + doctor who reference, yes
[05:21] <hazrpg> ?
[05:21]  * ball thinks about Daleks
[05:21] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empty_Child
[05:21] <hazrpg> ball: missing england already dude?
[05:21] <MartijnVdS> it's the scary "kids with gas mask" episode
[05:22] <ball> hazrpg: Every day.
[05:22] <MartijnVdS> ball: just sing a couple of verses of "God save the Queen" each morning before you go to work. Should help.
[05:22] <hazrpg> ball: always welcome to come back, and sure we'll all have open arms out for ya :)
[05:23] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: or he could set up a cron job to automatically play it in the morning for him ^^
[05:23] <shauno> it's not meant to play in the morning.  it's meant to be the last thing you hear before the telly shuts off for the night :)
[05:24] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, and then The Star-Spangled Banner in the morning, to remind you where you are
[05:24] <shauno> haha, I'm not going there ;)
[05:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: but ball is there
[05:25] <ball> hazrpg: Not an option for a variety of reasons. Two of the primary ones are that a) I can't afford it and b) my daughter can't fly.
[05:25] <shauno> bbc used to play the national anthem before they signed off for the night.  back in the scary days when stations actually turned off at night
[05:28] <hazrpg> ball: can't fly why?
[05:28] <hazrpg> ball: no passport?
[05:28] <hazrpg> shauno: ikr!
[05:28] <shauno> ?
[05:29] <hazrpg> "I Know Right!"
[05:29] <shauno> ah
[05:29] <MartijnVdS> no passport? that exists? :P
[05:29]  * hazrpg the creepy girl with the random green man early in the morning before station on...
[05:29] <hazrpg> back before teletext was cool
[05:30] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: you're a GIRL?!
[05:30] <shauno> reminds me, I need to figure out how to renew my passport
[05:30] <maco2> this requires caps?
[05:30] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.ips.gov.uk/
[05:30] <maco2> and two forms of punctuation?
[05:30] <shauno> MartijnVdS: last time I looked it required me to know someone in certain job functions (police, etc).  which I don't :(
[05:30] <MartijnVdS> maco2: well, I was assuming "Hassan" wasn't a girl's name
[05:31] <shauno> well, I do, but not in this country
[05:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: which country is that? North Korea?
[05:31] <shauno> almost; Ireland (the non-british bit)
[05:32] <MartijnVdS> shauno: 3 seconds of google tell me: http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=254
[05:32] <ball> hazrpg: medical reasons.
[05:32] <shauno> MartijnVdS: lol, I don't need an irish passport; I'm not irish :)
[05:33] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, you're a Complex Case :)
[05:33] <MartijnVdS> shauno: talk to your consulate/embassy :)
[05:33] <ball> New passport's going to cost me US$ 240
[05:33] <ball> ...perhaps more now, it's a while since I checked.
[05:33] <shauno> I'm british but living in ireland.  the general plot is exactly the same as renewing in the UK, except the co-signer has to be in the republic too.  which is where I run into a wall.  I don't know many people here
[05:34] <shauno> let alone nurses / policemen / teachers / and what-not
[05:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://britishembassyinireland.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/passports/
[05:34] <hazrpg> ball: ah
[05:35] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: rofl, no... just realised I had /me typed up before I sent that
[05:35] <shauno> anyhow, back in 30 minutes or so, need to shuffle off to work (5 minutes ago)
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> \o
[05:37] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: nope, I'm definitely a boy... I checked
[05:37] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: heh, just realised how you knew my name xD
[05:38] <hazrpg> are most of you signed up to the mailing list?
[05:39]  * MartijnVdS gets enough mail already :P
[05:40] <hazrpg> shauno: you might appreciate this :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyCIpKAIFyo
[05:40] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: so no?
[05:40] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: indeed
[05:41] <hazrpg> that's what filters are for :P
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> whiskey tango foxtrot @ video
[05:41] <ball> hazrpg: There's a mailing list?
[05:42] <hazrpg> ball: yeah...
[05:42] <hazrpg> ball: hit up http://www.ubuntu-uk.org/
[05:42] <hazrpg> or directly to the signup for the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
[05:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: did the Windows-Ancient in virtualbox with USB-serial trick/hack work?
[05:43] <hazrpg> on my gmail I have it set to filter "ubuntu-uk.lists.ubuntu.com" to go to a label called "ubuntu-uk"
[05:44] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MfrT0wvMg
[05:45] <hazrpg> nope
[05:46] <hazrpg> there must be a way to make pidgin have a darker colour scheme :/
[05:47] <hazrpg> really bugs me that its white :/
[05:47] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1340828
[05:48] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: aww
[05:49] <hazrpg> MartijnVdS: don't thinkt that will work on my windows install though
[05:49] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: see, there's your problem
[05:50] <hazrpg> I switch between ubuntu and windows often, so I have .purple set to a directory both can access
[05:50]  * MartijnVdS just has 2 PCs to switch between Win7 and Ubuntu :)
[05:51] <hazrpg> heh, if I had the money I would
[05:51] <MartijnVdS> hazrpg: job > minecraft :P
[05:51] <hazrpg> don't really have a job lol
[05:52] <ball> I have one, but it's suboptimal
[05:52] <ball> I suppose technincally I have two.
[05:52] <hazrpg> I do at the moment, but after this project I don't know where the next client will come from
[05:52] <hazrpg> joys of working for yourself
[05:52] <ball> Neither works.
[06:01] <Apacheuk> morning, geez you guys are up early today
[06:02] <hazrpg> or haven't slept yet...
[06:06] <Apacheuk> true :)
[06:08] <Apacheuk> supposed to be getting BT Infinity enabled today
[06:18] <Myrtti> boo
[06:23] <shauno> 30 minutes was optimistic.  windows decided it didn't want to wake up :/
[06:58] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:38] <nigelb> Morning \o/
[07:48] <daubers> Morning
[07:58] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> interesting tale of two kernels... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/kernel-any-other-name Anyone running Ubuntu Server (32bit) *needs* to read this.
[08:33] <DJones> Morning
[08:36] <chalcedony> hi DJones
[08:38] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:38] <DJones> hi chalcedony screen-x
[08:39] <chalcedony> hello
[08:55] <AlanBell> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmpubadm/writev/goodgovit/contents.htm
[09:04] <diplo> Morning
[09:29] <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: wow - interesting article.
[09:29] <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: Do debian do server kernels?
[09:31] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[09:31] <BigRedS> good morning!
[09:32] <bigcalm> Today's SMBC is a hoot :)
[09:33] <andylockran> SMBC ?
[09:33] <andylockran> to me that's Solihull Metropolitan Borough Council.
[09:34] <andylockran> and they're never a hoot :p
[09:34] <bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/
[09:34] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:36] <bigcalm> It's fun how the BBC weather site changes its background depending upon the type of weather. But it does make using the site depressing this time of year
[09:38] <DJones> Anybody using tweetdeck on windows? Just wondering whether you'd recommend the Desktop app, or the google chrome app
[09:38] <gord> its just flash either way isn't it?
[09:38] <bigcalm> Only place I use that is on my Nexus One
[09:39] <DJones> the desktop app is adobe air, not sure about the chrome version
[09:40] <bigcalm> gord: air not flash on the desktop
[09:40] <bigcalm> http://www.tweetdeck.com/desktop/ # that's using my monitor. How generic
[09:41] <bigcalm> By the looks of it, all 3 objects are Dell
[09:41] <gord> bigcalm, right, but air is basically just flash
[09:42] <JamesTait> Aloha!
[09:42] <screen-x> \o JamesTait
[09:42] <bigcalm> I guess, but doesn't require flash player. 6 of one half a dozzen of the other
[09:43] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:44] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski :)
[09:47] <czajkowski> JamesTait: oi thats my greeting in here!
[09:47] <czajkowski> dont confuse me
[09:47] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i was going to mention that
[09:47] <screen-x> but JamesTait is so creative with his 'good mornings'
[09:48] <screen-x> he wont hog yours for long czajkowski
[09:48] <JamesTait> czajkowski: Can't we share? :)
[09:48] <popey> morning all
[09:48] <screen-x> morning popey
[09:48] <JamesTait> screen-x: I'm running out of languages. :-P
[09:48] <dwatkins> Guten morgen!
[09:49] <popey> Ja!
[09:49] <czajkowski> Maidin mhaith
[09:51] <andylockran> Suku Manu
[09:52] <bigcalm> Nannoo nannoo
[09:52] <MooDoo> mork calling orson
[09:52] <dwatkins> nanu! nanu!
[09:53] <czajkowski> http://www.networkworld.com/community/banshee-amazon-store-disabled-by-canonical-in-ubuntu  hmmm
[09:58] <andylockran> ooh
[09:59] <bigcalm> Interesting
[10:02] <shauno> I think I'd just have to echo 'hmmm' on that one.  interesting read
[10:05] <daubers> I'm not sure why they're complaining tbh
[10:05] <bigcalm> I buy physical CDs and use Spotify, so I'm not going to make a difference anyway :)
[10:06] <andylockran> It's an interesting precedent.
[10:06] <daubers> At least they asked
[10:06] <andylockran> i.e. if banshee's relationship with the amazon store was supporting the development of banshee
[10:06]  * gord is going through a branch that makes unity respect the gtk theme, wonderful stuff :) 
[10:06] <HazRPG> hmm...
[10:10] <daubers> I do find it amusing that open source peeps seem to want to promote Amazon getting money than a company that works on a distro getting money
[10:10] <mungojerry> 7digital never has any music i am looking to buy
[10:11] <mungojerry> amazon does
[10:11] <mungojerry> maybe they could have compromised on 50% :S
[10:11] <BigRedS> daubers: I don't think the issue people are taking to heart is whether amazon get money or not
[10:11]  * Myrtti found what she was looking for in 7digital and bought it from the Ubuntu One store
[10:11] <daubers> I have no idea if any discussion on the %age was actually raised
[10:12] <shauno> daubers: I believe U1 is essentially the same setup, but they get to rebrand their portal?
[10:12] <daubers> BigRedS: Ultimatley though, a large portion of that money will go back into OSS software anyway, as canonical pays devs to work on OSS stuff
[10:12] <daubers> shauno: No idea
[10:12] <Myrtti> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2010/oct/01/oliver-blank-finland-album-app and Oliver Blank did have his first one on the store so I got it from there
[10:13] <dutchie> daubers: Open Source Software software?
[10:14] <daubers> dutchie: BOX!
[10:15] <BigRedS> daubers: I think the issue is it affecting the competetiveness, more than the final destination of that money
[10:19] <shauno> I think that's pretty much it.  7digital's offering kinda pales in comparison to amazon's.
[10:19] <shauno> so canonical 'pull an apple' to either protect, or substitute that revenue
[10:20] <mungojerry> i guess those that enable amazon store will then be giving 100% to banshee?
[10:21] <bigcalm> Nothing goes to Banshee
[10:22] <dutchie> bigcalm: they get money off amazon
[10:22] <directhex> banshee has no amazon affiliate code
[10:22] <bigcalm> I thought that was GNOME
[10:22] <directhex> banshee uses the gnome code. nothing ever goes to a banshee dev
[10:22] <dutchie> oh, fair enough
[10:22] <shauno> it is, s/banshee/gnome foundation
[10:22] <bigcalm> I read the artical ;)
[10:23] <bigcalm> Well, half of it before getting bored
[10:23] <daubers> shauno: Not quite a complete apple though is it, they've not banned it, just disabled the default
[10:24] <shauno> I think it fails the 'do unto others' test tho.  If someone changed that affiliate code to their own in non-cannonical *buntu derrivate, people would cry foul
[10:25] <daubers> Surely thats why they asked rather than just did?
[10:25] <mungojerry> the amazon store within banshee is great, really handy since it avoids the separate downloader deb. shame that many won't realise it is there.
[10:26] <directhex> clearly banshee > amazon's downloader thingy
[10:26] <directhex> there's also a tool called clamz, dunno how well it works
[10:27] <mungojerry> oh well, it's all politics, i hope it blows over in a few days
[10:29] <directhex> "Hah, I see what Bansee screamers are up too. They want a place on GNOME advisory board to push their Mono and Anti-GNU agenda and they have no money. So they decided to tax Ubuntu and mask it as support for GNOME. Canonical should just dump banshee and use Rythmbox."
[10:30] <mungojerry> i  thought mono extremists would have siwtched to hating java by now.
[10:31] <mungojerry> actually i'd be wary of using virtualbox though
[10:31] <dwatkins> why the concern with virtualbox, mungojerry
[10:31] <mungojerry> because the new owners are not OSS friendly
[10:31]  * dwatkins adds a question mark to the above line... ?
[10:31] <directhex> mungojerry, they still herald Java as completely Free and safe.
[10:31] <directhex> mungojerry, it's GPL, and it's not Microsoft. those are how things are defined as Free
[10:32] <BigRedS> I think Java's probably percieved as too stagnant to be viewed in a threatening way
[10:33] <BigRedS> MS are actively pussing .NET, nobody's doing that with Java
[10:33] <BigRedS> *pushing
[10:33] <UndiFineD> I use virtualbox, they actually loosened the license for 4.0
[10:33] <mungojerry> how so undifined?
[10:33] <popey> 10:24:48 < shauno> I think it fails the 'do unto others' test tho.  If someone changed that affiliate code to their own in non-cannonical *buntu derrivate, people would cry foul
[10:33] <popey> people already do
[10:33] <UndiFineD> it was stricter, and not all goodies were available for free
[10:34] <popey> crunchbang has changed their affiliate code for firefox so they get revenue and ubuntu doesnt
[10:34] <popey> AIUI
[10:34] <popey> I don't believe Ubuntu has ever complained about this fact
[10:34] <popey> I suspect mint probably change thiers too
[10:36] <mungojerry> canonical already contribute financially to the gnome foundation too
[10:44] <mungojerry> popey i noticed an xserver update to natty today
[10:44] <mungojerry> or is it the nvidia update you're waiting for?
[10:45] <gord> mungojerry, no
[10:46] <mungojerry> didn't see the changelog tho
[10:48] <AlanBell> gord: when resizing a VM window that runs unity it gets a bit confused, is that a bug?
[10:49] <AlanBell> end up with the top toolbar where the top of the old screen size was
[10:50] <gord> AlanBell, sorry i don't follow
[10:50] <gord> oh wait you mean unity running in a vm :)
[10:50] <AlanBell> yes
[10:50] <gord> yeah, so resolution changes aren't hooked up yet, i don't know why. i need to ping the nux guy about that again honestly, there are a bunch of bugs about it
[10:51] <AlanBell> ok, thought there might be
[10:54] <morleypotter> Morning all - Does anyone know anything about multiple network protocols in peer to peer technologies (i'm not up to anything by the way :) )
[10:55] <AlanBell> bug 684539 seems to be the main one for the resolution change issue
[10:55] <morleypotter> I'm wondering, if I create a torrent file (legal, for uni work) will it work on all the protocols and applications?
[10:58] <morleypotter> gord: I'm using VM's at the minute for my uni project, you get very different results with different VM packages. (have only walked in half way through the conversation though)
[11:01] <bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw # safe for work, requires sound
[11:05] <morleypotter> bigcalm: nice one :)
[11:09] <czajkowski> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf  <----- very useful document
[11:11] <AlanBell> I spy Matt Barker
[11:12] <mungojerry> firefox 4 beta + adobe reader plugin takes 10 attempts to open pdfs :( got there eventually
[11:13] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I spy most of the design team
[11:13] <czajkowski> :(
[11:13] <czajkowski> :)
[11:13] <czajkowski> sorry wrong to pull a sad face
[11:13] <gord> mungojerry, don't like evince?
[11:13] <gord> gord <3 evince
[11:13] <mungojerry> i like viewing the pdf in the browser window
[11:13] <gord> its like adobe reader but doesn't take an hour to start up and doesn't eat up a billion ghz of processing power
[11:13]  * mungojerry has cpu to burn
[11:14] <gord> i have a quad core i7, adobe reader is still slow and eats up more cpu than i can provide it with
[11:14] <mungojerry> it's funny, when i run a kickstart for our user machines, half of the 15 min kickstart time is taken by installing adobe reader (90mb)
[11:15] <davmor2> morning all
[11:15]  * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
[11:15] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi there will be less of tha mister!
[11:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: it was that, proding or hugs, I fancied a change :P
[11:16]  * AlanBell tickles davmor2's fancy
[11:17]  * AlanBell didn't really think that one though properly
[11:17]  * czajkowski pus AlanBell and davmor2 in a room on their own 
[11:17] <czajkowski> *puts
[11:17] <davmor2> AlanBell: No you didn't
[11:17] <mungojerry> lol
[11:18] <gord> do we need an #u-uk naughty step?
[11:18] <davmor2> gord: haha
[11:18] <davmor2> He czajkowski you off on Holiday again?  do you every work in the UK?
[11:19] <czajkowski> gord: yes MooDoo and davmor2 to sit on it every day
[11:19] <czajkowski> davmor2: I am in the uk....
[11:19] <czajkowski> saturday week off to spain :d
[11:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: My point exactly you seem to be out of the country more than you're in it :D
[11:20]  * screen-x would have been on it yesterday
[11:21] <Ng> /1/3
[11:21] <gord> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613083 hehe
[11:21] <gord> libreoffice off to a flying start ;)
[11:24] <Ng> gord: epic facepalm :O
[11:24] <bigcalm> gord: WOW!
[11:26] <mungojerry> i usually use .rpmsave when trashing files with a package :P
[11:26] <gord> in other news, i just tried to close a window on my desktop, then i realised that "window" was a screenshot of an osx application a friend had sent me
[11:26]  * mungojerry thinks of a good april fool joke involving desktop wallpaper :P
[11:28] <shauno> hah, that bug is tasty.  if only for the "oh, didn't think of that.  sorry" bit
[11:30] <dwatkins> oh my, that could be rather catastrophic
[11:32] <dwatkins> why don't installers just do something like: TEMPDIR=/tmp/`date +%s`     ?
[11:32] <dwatkins> granted, there's a miniscule chance of a conflict, so it could also include the PID and some other pseudo-random reference/number
[11:34] <screen-x> dwatkins: a dir version for $(tempfile) would cool
[11:34] <dwatkins> screen-x: dir version in which sense?
[11:34]  * dwatkins checks for a manpage for tempfile
[11:35] <andylockran> I thought /usr/share/appname/* was a sensible place to store app stuff.. why's it even looking at  / ?
[11:35] <andylockran> surely that goes against FHS anyway
[11:35] <dwatkins> I think it's just during installation, but even so andylockran - you have a point
[11:36] <andylockran> /usr/share/app/temp :p
[11:36] <andylockran> merging both our suggestions
[11:42] <andylockran> using opera at the moment.. you can 'stack' tabs ontop of each other.
[11:42] <smittix> anyone any good with MS SQL
[11:46] <Laney> dwatkins: mktemp -d
[11:46]  * daubers upgrades his USB stick
[11:47] <diplo> smittix, I've used it in the past, not overly heavily.. I'd just asked and see if any of us can answer :)
[11:48] <andylockran> smittix: hit us with the question :)
[11:48] <MooDoo> :)
[11:48] <Laney> laptop → natty
[11:48] <popey> s/hit/tickle
[11:48]  * Laney is scared
[11:48] <popey> i want to go home
[11:48] <popey> to put my new ssd in laptop :(
[11:48] <popey> this is the downside of getting new toys delivered to work
[11:48] <Laney> yesterday I had a new toy arrive at work
[11:49] <smittix> andylockran: Came in this morning with our ERP down, Looks as if someone has deleted a field from within a table. Im no SQL expert but i need to know whats happened.
[11:49] <Laney> so I may have worked from home in the afternoon ;)
[11:49] <Laney> ♥ squeezebox radio ♥
[11:49] <andylockran> smittix: guess the best thing is to find out what the logging logs.
[11:49] <popey> heh
[11:49] <popey> smittix: what ERP system is it?
[11:50] <smittix> It's called Defacto
[11:50] <andylockran> smittix: check the transaction log ?
[11:50] <popey> oooh, not heard of that one
[11:50] <andylockran> do you know hte field?
[11:50] <waveform> smittix: have a look at the system catalog (wherever that it in MS SQL - I'm not sure off the top of my head) to see what the last modified timestamp of the table's meta-data is?
[11:50] <smittix> Where is the transaction log?
[11:50] <waveform> smittix: you might want to try #sql as well - there's a few people in there that know MS-SQL pretty well
[11:51] <andylockran> smittix: yeah, I'm afraid I can't help with MS SQL specifics (not knowing it at all)
[11:52] <dwatkins> Laney: thanks
[11:52] <dwatkins> daubers: a magical stick of diagnostic tools?
[11:54] <waveform> smittix: just had a quick trawl thru the t-sql ref - have a look at modify_date in sys.objects (filter on the name column for the table you're interested in)
[11:54] <daubers> dwatkins: Indeed!
[12:00] <smittix> waveform: thanks I will try it
[12:04] <screen-x> presumably if I renew an ssl cert, I have to download and install new version of cert from CA?
[12:07] <BigRedS> screen-x: yup
[12:08] <BigRedS> new cert, new ca-cert if you're using one, generally same key
[12:09] <screen-x> BigRedS: ok, just waiting for a new version to appear on the certificate management page
[12:09] <czajkowski> nnn/away
[12:10] <screen-x> s/nnn/mmm/ its lunchtime!
[12:10] <czajkowski> :)
[12:12] <HazRPG> \o Lunchie
[12:12] <Lunchie> heya haz
[12:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: was humming the theme to batman as she typed that I'm sure
[12:15]  * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step 
[12:15] <HazRPG> czajkowski: ^^
[12:15] <screen-x> is that #ubuntu-uk-naughtystep?
[12:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: Has been sat on the naughtystep the whole time :P
[12:17] <czajkowski> davmor2: only place for you and MooDoo
[12:17] <HazRPG> that and minecraft xD
[12:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: it has our names on :)
[12:18] <czajkowski> more like a dent in the seat
[12:18] <AlanBell> it does :)
[12:23] <Welshy-Rob> Hello, my ubuntu (10.10)  seems to be running really slowly on my system, i can only run about two programs at once and it still manages to crash now this could be because i have a pretty poor pc but the previous version of ubuntu used to run so much faster! is there anything you can suggest i do?
[12:24] <czajkowski> Welshy-Rob: have you U1 running and updating files anywhere?
[12:24] <screen-x> Hi Welshy-Rob, have you investigated system > administration > system monitor?
[12:25] <HazRPG> beaten to the punch
[12:25] <HazRPG> was about to ask both those questions
[12:25] <Welshy-Rob> czajkowski, whats UI?
[12:25] <HazRPG> U1 = Ubuntu One
[12:25] <HazRPG> file syncing and music store
[12:25] <Welshy-Rob> then no i dont
[12:26] <Welshy-Rob> screen-x, there's nothing really odd there to be fair
[12:26] <HazRPG> open up system monitor and as screen-x mentioned, and try and see what's eating up your resources - might help narrow down what's killing your system
[12:27] <HazRPG> try and organise by CPU %, that way you can see what's doing the most activity
[12:27] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: is it anything in particular thats crashing?
[12:27] <Welshy-Rob> firefox, chrome, Banshee
[12:27] <screen-x> do you get prompted to report a bug when the crash?
[12:27] <HazRPG> Welshy-Rob: what would you say was the general routine you do before it just crashes out?
[12:28] <Welshy-Rob> nah i have to reboot, its completly dead cant even move the mouse, well usually its when i go on facebook  or music changes song
[12:30] <screen-x> sounds X ish, have you tried reading /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old?
[12:30] <mungojerry> welshy-rob when looking at system monitor , go to the resources tab and check how much RAM you have too
[12:30] <mungojerry> by RAM i mean memory
[12:31] <Welshy-Rob> mungojerry, 266.3Mib (53.7%) of 495.8 Mib
[12:31] <Welshy-Rob> screen-x,  what am i looking for ?
[12:32] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: a crash, normally reported at the end of the log
[12:32] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: also, that isnt much ram..
[12:33] <Welshy-Rob> screen-x, yeah its only single core 512 ram so its not the greatest pc in the world but before ubuntu 10 it used to run fine ?
[12:35] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: anything interesting in the xorg log?
[12:35] <Welshy-Rob> !paste
[12:37] <Welshy-Rob> screen-x,  ill show you
[12:37] <screen-x> ok
[12:37] <mungojerry> welshy-rob, do you have system monitor graphs open when performing the operations that cause it to go slow? it could be useful in identifying what is happening (whether memory or CPU grpahs flatline at 100%)
[12:37] <Welshy-Rob> http://pastebin.com/ceb4z76w
[12:38] <Welshy-Rob> mungojerry,
[12:38] <Welshy-Rob> yeah
[12:39] <Welshy-Rob> mungojerry, well right now, my CPU history is sky high and im only running xchat, system monitor and file browser
[12:39] <mungojerry> ok, now switch to processes tab and order by CPU column
[12:40] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: xorg log looks ok.
[12:40] <Welshy-Rob> screen-x, could it be compiz? cause i have medium effects enabled?
[12:41] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: dont know, mungojerry sounds like he has a plan though.
[12:42] <mungojerry> what's at the top of the list? and what are the CPU values
[12:43] <Welshy-Rob> atm, gnome system monitor cpu 22-9
[12:43] <Welshy-Rob> then xchat at 2 and metacity at 0
[12:43] <Lunchie> laters people, time for systems analysis class
[12:44] <HazRPG> yeah system monitor does tend to kill the CPU sometimes, might be worth changing the intervals up from every 3seconds to say 5-10 seconds
[12:45] <Welshy-Rob> HazRPG, done
[12:46] <mungojerry> variable CPU is OK, it's when your CPU usage is pinned at 100% that you have a bottleneck
[12:46] <mungojerry> now it's time to try and break the system again while watching system monitor
[12:47] <Welshy-Rob> sweet
[12:48] <Welshy-Rob> right, lets crash my pc then, wll the Xorg log everything right?
[12:48] <screen-x> Welshy-Rob: it will only be noted there if you manage to crash X
[12:49] <Welshy-Rob> ok
[12:50] <Welshy-Rob> well ill be right back then....
[12:50] <screen-x> hmmm successs?
[12:51]  * mungojerry only just discovered that skype for linux has a share-your-desktop facility - does it work ok with ubuntu?
[12:51] <mungojerry> firewall-traversing desktop support for parents would be cool
[12:52] <screen-x> mungojerry: I use openvpn for that, but I guess skype would be easier..
[12:53] <mungojerry> yeah, bigtime
[12:58] <HazRPG> I've used it on skype for a while in ubuntu :P
[12:58] <Bassetts> Does anyone have experience with Logitech HD webcams on linux?
[13:00] <screen-x> Bassetts: iirc http://popey.com/webcam/ uses a logitech.
[13:00] <screen-x> though it appears to have fallen over slightly
[13:00] <Bassetts> ping popey do you use a logitech webcam with linux?
[13:00] <Bassetts> thanks screen-x
[13:01]  * BigRedS uses a logitech webcam with linux
[13:01] <BigRedS> I don't know which one off-hand, though, and I don't have it with me
[13:01] <Bassetts> BigRedS: is it a HD one?
[13:01] <Bassetts> ahh ok
[13:01] <BigRedS> ah, no
[13:01] <BigRedS> I should've read up *before* responding :)
[13:01] <Bassetts> that is the ones I am worried about working, specifically a C310
[13:02] <BigRedS> ah, it doesn't claim any sort of standards compliancy :(
[13:02] <mungojerry> hazrpg, u can send and receive desktop sharing requests throught NAT routers between win/linux machines?
[13:02] <HazRPG> I use a Microsoft LifeCam HD one
[13:03] <Bassetts> HazRPG: does that work?
[13:03] <HazRPG> works fine in cheese - and on skype, so one would assume so :P
[13:03] <BigRedS> I'm always amused at how well MS hardware tends to work under Linux. Mostly through just adhering to standards...
[13:04] <HazRPG> mungojerry: if you mean by sharing requests, that I can control the remote machine - then no, however you can share the desktop and see what the other person is doing, or they can see what your doing... works quite well
[13:04] <davmor2> BigRedS: It's the one thing MS do right hardware
[13:04] <HazRPG> I wouldn't recommend playing a game over it though - as I found out xD
[13:04] <mungojerry> hazrpg, great, thats all i need
[13:05] <mungojerry> my dad is > 1hr drive away and often asks me vista questions
[13:05] <HazRPG> BigRedS: is is shocking how microsoft hardware is reasonably good, its just the O/S that reeks
[13:05] <mungojerry> i used to know what screens to expect on XP but i haven't really gone near windows for a few years now
[13:05] <HazRPG> it is*
[13:06] <HazRPG> heh, yeah people ask me vista questions all the time and I haven't a clue how to respond - XP I know, slowly getting to grips with 7
[13:07] <HazRPG> ubuntu I sort of know (always seem to find something new to learn all the time!)
[13:07] <HazRPG> just really don't know what's going on with vista though, and its shocking how many still actually use it (sadly) T_T
[13:08] <mungojerry> my dad refused to pay for the upgrade
[13:08] <popey> Bassetts: i do
[13:08] <gord> the other weekend i spent about half an hour desperately trying to figure out how to uninstall an application on windows 7...
[13:09] <Bassetts> popey: is it a hd one?
[13:10] <popey> define HD
[13:10] <popey> it's a logitech pro 9000
[13:10] <popey> 960x720 is max resolution
[13:10] <daubers> ascii 70 and ascii 68
[13:10] <popey> AIUI the logitech pro 9000 'for business' does 1280x720
[13:10] <Bassetts> one that Logitech market as their HD range
[13:11] <Bassetts> e.g. c270, c310 etc
[13:11] <popey> it is neither of those
[13:11] <Bassetts> fair enough, they seem fairly new and I wanted to check compatibility
[13:11]  * daubers realises ascii 70 is F and goes to sit in the fail corner
[13:12]  * mungojerry bought 20 packs of monster munch today mmmmm
[13:13] <popey> (
[13:13] <Bassetts> shame my HD camcorder doesnt function as a webcam too :-(
[13:13] <mungojerry> ) is still irked by the topic name
[13:14] <popey> heh
[13:14] <popey> Bassetts: which camcorder?
[13:14]  * popey hugs his kodak zi8
[13:14] <Bassetts> Samsung H200
[13:14] <popey> co-worker has kodak zx3 which is lovely
[13:14] <popey> and waterproof to 3M
[13:14] <dwatkins> I tend to buy cheese & onion crisps in packs of 26
[13:14] <dwatkins> although I like Monster Munch also :)
[13:15] <popey> i end up with a layer of monster on the inside of my mouth
[13:15] <popey> (that sounds wrong)
[13:15] <mungojerry> 20 bags for £2.55 ..months supply sitting in my office drawer
[13:15] <popey> when I eat monster munch
[13:15] <Bassetts> popey, that is one of those handheld mobile phone like ones right?
[13:15] <popey> ya
[13:15] <popey> like the flip
[13:15] <popey> its great, i carry it with me everywhere in my coat pocket
[13:15] <Bassetts> aye, I went for a traditional style one
[13:16] <popey> also, SD cards FTW
[13:16] <Bassetts> mine does SD :-)
[13:16] <Bassetts> didnt see the point in an ssd model when 16GB of 1080 lasts as long as the battery
[13:17]  * mungojerry used a webcam to find out who was snaffling our cakes and biccies once
[13:17] <Bassetts> mungojerry: that is a similar reason to me wanting one
[13:17] <Bassetts> webcam + motion + revo = spying :-)
[13:17] <mungojerry> turned out to be a cleaner at 5am having a right old feast..and helping themselves to £20 from my drawer. althouh i shouldn't have hidden it under a bar of chocolate
[13:18]  * Bassetts wanders off to actually eat something and finish off coursework
[13:18]  * mungojerry ponders cracking open another bag of crisps
[13:19] <Myrtti> I don't understand the attachment to crisps, I don't understand the multipack idea, I don't understand it in packed lunches, I don't get it
[13:19] <Myrtti> maek no sense
[13:19] <mungojerry> myrtti, you're finnish, right?
[13:20] <Myrtti> it's a treat in my books, not something that you could have every day
[13:20] <mungojerry> my sister's partner is danish. he says the same thing. it's very british though. you never find delicacies like monster munch or walkers sensations chicken &thyme flavour in other countries :P
[13:20] <Myrtti> goes to the same category with candy, chocolate and soda
[13:21] <mungojerry> crisps are an essential part of my daily lunch
[13:21] <Myrtti> ew
[13:21]  * andylockran tucks into some prawn cocktail...
[13:21] <popey> MARMITE!
[13:21] <popey> OM NOM NOM MSG
[13:22] <soneill> our work canteen has started offering marmite as an alternative to jam
[13:22] <soneill> that is all
[13:22] <popey> we have marmite in our canteen too, with toast
[13:22] <mungojerry> in fact, if i've gone a day without eating crisps or meat, i feel that i've missed out
[13:22] <popey> it wins
[13:22] <moreati> Myrtti: What's in a Finnish packed lunch?
[13:22] <popey> fish and vodka
[13:22] <gord> moreati, disappointment
[13:22] <lunchie> Ewww Marmite
[13:22] <popey> hah
[13:22] <soneill> lol gord
[13:22] <popey> darkness
[13:22] <popey> and quietness
[13:23] <mungojerry> they do have better haribo flavours in other countries though
[13:23] <mungojerry> i often go to lidl to check out their offerings
[13:23] <lunchie> like what?
[13:23]  * moreati ignores the national stereotyping and hopes for a chance to learn something
[13:23]  * HazRPG runs behind mungojerry and bites one
[13:24] <Myrtti> moreati: usually there are no packed lunches, our cafeterias are fairly good, but (rye) bread or salad or microwaveable leftovers, milk or juice and a muesli bar?
[13:24] <HazRPG> (monster munch that is)
[13:24] <gord> pretty much what kind of packed lunch i had as a kid
[13:24] <mungojerry> sounds like crisps would go nicely with that lunch
[13:25] <JamesTait> Bacon and poached egg on toasted seeded batch. Not one for the vegans, obviously.
[13:25] <moreati> Myrtti: Thank you, I'll have to try rye bread some time
[13:25]  * mungojerry had chocolate spread sandwiches as a kid. that is why he has high dental bills but is strangely underwieght
[13:25] <Myrtti> I don't usually ever buy soda, candy or salty snacks at a store, I have been without crisps for years. Sometimes I have plain Doritos with salsa or guacamole when watching a movie, but...
[13:25] <popey> I used to like working in finland
[13:25] <lunchie> monster munch flavored haribos, and vodka to wash it down
[13:25] <popey> except that the canteen did healthy food, which was no good after we went out on the beer on thursday night
[13:26]  * mungojerry gave up beer a few years ago
[13:26] <mungojerry> wsn't hard considering the quality in london pubs
[13:27] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[13:27] <Bassetts> hey brobostigon
[13:27] <brobostigon> hey Bassetts
[13:27] <BigRedS> g'morning brobostigon!
[13:27] <shauno> I've sworn off drinking anything I didn't make myself.  ends up being more scarcity than moderation
[13:27] <Bassetts> long time to chat
[13:28] <brobostigon> hey BigRedS
[13:28] <mungojerry> hey i have an ubuntu question *shock*
[13:28] <popey> ooo me too :)
[13:28] <popey> you first
[13:28]  * mungojerry steps up...
[13:29] <dwatkins> shauno: how do you make water? ;)
[13:29] <mungojerry> i have ubuntu desktop connected to ldap. my /etc/nsswitch.conf contains "passwd files ldap", but when i do ps -ef i see entries such as this: 108      32510     1  0 Feb16 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/hald
[13:29] <shauno> dwatkins: who on earth drinks water?
[13:29] <mungojerry> uid = 108 rather than haldaemon
[13:30] <dwatkins> shauno: good point, I rarely do
[13:30] <mungojerry> but getent passwd | grep 108 shows haldaemon
[13:30] <mungojerry> weird huh?
[13:30] <mungojerry> my own uid and root show correctly
[13:30] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude \o
[13:31] <brobostigon> HazRPG: hey, :)
[13:31] <mungojerry> popey , your turn
[13:31] <popey> 68        5630     1  0  2010 ?        00:00:32 hald
[13:31] <popey> I see same :)
[13:32] <popey> on RHEL5
[13:32] <mungojerry> popey, u on ldap, or any other auth?
[13:32] <dwatkins> I also see the UID for haldaemon in the ps output on CentOS 5.5
[13:32]  * mungojerry notices it on SL5/RHEL5 too
[13:32] <dwatkins> i.e. the number not 'haldaemon'
[13:33] <popey> passwd:     files ldap
[13:33] <mungojerry> yet i see avahi in RHEL, which only exists in ldap
[13:33] <popey> file a bug :)
[13:33] <popey> wonder if haldaemon is missing in ldap?
[13:34] <mungojerry> doesn't need to exist
[13:34] <mungojerry> sorry, avahi only exists in passwd
[13:34] <dwatkins> I'm using winbind as well as local files for user info (i.e. what nsswitch.conf describes as passwd)
[13:34] <popey> i have no avahi on this box
[13:34] <mungojerry> bug 131306
[13:34] <mungojerry> That's because 'haldaemon' and 'messagebus' are to long to fit into the  field. Instead ps shows the numerical ID for those users.
[13:34] <popey> oooo
[13:34] <mungojerry> google to the resuce
[13:35] <popey> how crap
[13:35] <dwatkins> mungojerry: tada
[13:35] <dwatkins> I guess all command line outputs with tables are a bit restricted in terms of how they can output, one way or another
[13:35] <mungojerry> checked a colleagues machine who has a long name, same thing
[13:36]  * dwatkins is reminded of someone he was at school with by the name of Konstantin Konstantinovic
[13:36]  * mungojerry is reminded of hassan hassan hassan in my brothers year
[13:36] <penguin42> your name? And your surname? And finally any middle names?
[13:36] <popey> There's a bloke at Dell called "Demis Dememis"
[13:36] <dwatkins> Some parents are just cruel.
[13:36] <popey> (say it aloud)
[13:37] <mungojerry> i had a visit from a dell person called del lunn
[13:37] <popey> anywa, mungojerry can I do my question now?
[13:37] <dwatkins> popey: in French or English pronounciation?
[13:37] <mungojerry> and he came to give SAN training
[13:37] <popey> phonetically
[13:37] <mungojerry> popey go ahead
[13:37] <dwatkins> I guess I need to reformat parts of my brain, but I'll let you get on ;)
[13:37] <popey> whats the best way to migrate from 320GB hard disk to 120GB SSD
[13:38] <popey> clonezilla wont work, because the disk is shrinking
[13:38] <penguin42> delete 200GB
[13:38] <popey> its running ubuntu
[13:38] <dwatkins> popey: OS partition or just data? is there space?
[13:38] <mungojerry> lvm or partitions
[13:39] <mungojerry> if the /home partition is < 120gb i'd copy only that over to a suitably sized partition on the SSD
[13:39] <screen-x> popey: tar via ssh
[13:41] <dwatkins> I'd be considering booting from USB with external storage attached if I had to copy the OS partition, and couldn't just reinstall and copy /home across (assuming same OS version)
[13:41] <mungojerry> partimage GUI run from livecd allowed me to reduce my partition
[13:43] <mungojerry> screen-x i wonder what happened to welshy-rob :P
[13:43] <screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, I thought he quit because he was trying to cause a crash, but then didnt return..
[13:48] <shauno> tar's a surprisingly sensible way to clone systems.  (cd / && tar cf - $(ls -1 |egrep -v "mnt|proc|sys|dev") ) | (cd /mnt/target && tar xvfp -)
[13:49] <dwatkins> I like that tar preserves permissions and ownership, assuming equivalent UIDs
[13:49] <shauno> you'd need to recreate whatever hides beneath devfs's mountpoint tho
[13:49] <shauno> (or run it from a livecd and not have to exclude folders)
[13:51] <bigcalm> In the fridge there is some couscous made on Sunday. Think it'll still be ok?
[13:51]  * brobostigon shakes his head.
[13:52] <bigcalm> That bad?
[13:52] <brobostigon> maybe.
[13:52] <bigcalm> Pot noodle it is then
[13:52]  * mungojerry just watched the elementary OS video in HD full screen to get a feel of what it's like : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwHTcSZjAk
[13:53] <brobostigon> bigcalm: i would say, with starches, a day, is probebly the limit.
[13:53] <dwatkins> I wouldn't touch rice or couscous that's over a day old
[13:54] <dwatkins> see: wikipedia://e-coli
[13:54] <brobostigon> agreed.
[13:54] <brobostigon> yes.
[13:54] <Myrtti> cold rice and couscous is one of the most common sources of foodborne illnesses in western countries
[13:55] <shauno> this I didn't know.  last night's rice tends to feature heavily in my curries
[13:55] <dwatkins> mungojerry: looks a lot like someone copied Mac OS X to me :-/
[13:55] <brobostigon> thats why, when i reheat my curry, i reheat it properly, to kill off all that.
[13:55] <mungojerry> even borrowed the wallpaper
[13:55] <Myrtti> shauno: Cooking with Geeks has a good chapter about cold rice
[13:55] <dwatkins> mungojerry: indeed, I don't get why people insist on making their desktops look like some other OS, I'd prefer to be unique
[13:56] <shauno> dwatkins: I was thinking that, but as a self-confessed mac 'fanboy', I refrained
[13:56] <mungojerry> i have a special way of dealing with cold rice: open bin, throw away.
[13:56] <dwatkins> shauno: my main machine at home is a MacBook Pro
[13:56] <mungojerry> dwatkins running which OS?
[13:56] <dwatkins> mungojerry: currently just Mac OS X 10.6.6, although I've been consiering triple-booting it with Ubuntu and that other OS some people use
[13:57] <dwatkins> thing is, Mac OS X is good enough
[13:57] <brobostigon> mungojerry: less than 24 hours, reheat, really well, to kill off bugs. more than 24 hrs, bin.
[13:58] <penguin42> anyone got a msi u135 netbook? Argos seem to be doing them for £149
[13:58] <mungojerry> never been tempted by mac os since i generally prefer to buy cheaper hardware, self-upgrade and "make do" with what i find
[13:59] <shauno> I got lazy when that's what my day job turned into.  ruined a perfectly good hobby.
[14:01] <mungojerry> i'm no RMS but community and ideology in software feature quite highly for me.
[14:02] <mungojerry> if it needs specialist software to run/administer, then often i avoid it (e.g. mp3player, printer, scanner, smartphone)
[14:05]  * brobostigon uses diskspace analiser toworkout,where toclear out stuff from the microsd inhis phone.
[14:06] <shauno> my ideology tends more towards my data than software.  software's effectively transient. my data is mine.
[14:06] <brobostigon> bigger microsd i think.
[14:07] <shauno> a fantastic number of the loudest free software advocates are happy to let google own their emails
[14:07] <mungojerry> shauno, although google offer ways to extract the data, so you aren't locked in
[14:07] <shauno> so you have a nice free, prinstine system, while all your data is wrapped up in proprietary products
[14:09] <mungojerry> my zimbra server now offers a button allowing users to download an archive of all their mail,etc. previously only possible to admins - nice touch
[14:29] <andylockran> that's kewl mungojerry is that the new 7 version?
[14:31] <dogmatic69> any way to get mysql 5.5 on 10.10
[14:33] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: I think you'd need to build it
[14:33] <dogmatic69> :/
[14:33] <BigRedS> I had a brief look for someone packaging it for debian and didn't come across anything
[14:33] <dogmatic69> no worries
[14:33] <dogmatic69> ill wait for a ppa
[14:34] <BigRedS> though by brief it was about long enough for the customer to point out that he didn't *need* it
[14:34] <dogmatic69> :)
[14:37] <bigcalm> Made fresh mushroom couscous and added some bacon
[14:37] <bigcalm> Bacon makes anything better
[14:50] <lunchie> Hooray for bacon
[14:52] <dwatkins> bigcalm: does that include bacon toothpaste? ;)
[15:03] <bigcalm> dwatkins: for dogs I'm sure it does
[15:04] <brobostigon> http://www.slapometer.com/ :)
[15:19]  * popey returns from work after asking his question ages ago
[15:20] <dwatkins> welcome home, popey - time to put your feet up and start doing tech support for your family instead of your colleagues, I assume...
[15:20] <popey> er
[15:21] <popey> still at work
[15:21] <popey> i mean "return to irc from work" :D
[15:21] <popey> the laptop has a desktop ubuntu install on it, with one big partition
[15:21] <popey> i need to migrate to ssd
[15:21] <danfish> popey: migrate to 120gb ssd from 300gb disk?
[15:21] <dwatkins> aha, thought you might have some nice cushy number where you finish early so you can collect younglings from school
[15:21] <danfish> how full's the 300gb disk with actual data?
[15:21] <popey> danfish: yes
[15:22] <popey> guess easiest is do a clean install then rsync /home over
[15:22] <bigcalm> I would
[15:22] <shauno> I still vote for tar|tar
[15:22] <danfish> popey: probably yes - I did that when I migrated from 32 -> 64 bit
[15:22] <popey> shauno: needs a second machine
[15:22] <dwatkins> I'd back it up to an external disk, try the resize, and if it fails, restore or reinstall then restore the data
[15:22] <shauno> popey: or a livecd
[15:22] <danfish> but I forgot about the VM's in a a dir under /var :(
[15:23] <dwatkins> popey: if you were closer, I'd lend you my 1TB spare hdd
[15:23] <popey> i have plenty of space
[15:23] <shauno> oh, laptop .. two disks at once may be awkward
[15:23] <popey> indeed
[15:23] <danfish> nice SSD tho
[15:23] <popey> could put the ssd in a usb enclosure
[15:23] <bigcalm> external harddrive enclosure
[15:23] <popey> seems perverse
[15:23] <bigcalm> Jinx
[15:24] <popey> then what? boot to cd, do the install then rsync over, swap drives, job done?
[15:24] <popey> in fact!
[15:24] <popey> how about, shutdown machine, swap disks, so I'm on SSD
[15:24] <bigcalm> Yes
[15:24] <popey> boot from CD, install, attach _old_ disk via USB
[15:24] <popey> rsync data
[15:24] <bigcalm> Yes
[15:24] <popey> job done
[15:24] <popey> that makes more sense
[15:24] <bigcalm> That's what was in my mind from the start
[15:25] <popey> haha
[15:25] <popey> you say that now!
[15:25] <popey> :D
[15:25] <bigcalm> ¬.¬
[15:32] <andylockran> anyone use mailman?
[15:32] <bigcalm> As a subscriber, yes
[15:32] <andylockran>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[15:32] <andylockran> 25556 mailman   16   0  364m 289m 2572 S  0.0 14.9   0:16.09 python2.5
[15:32] <andylockran> One of our servers is running it - two lists, one with 10 people, the other with 20
[15:32] <andylockran> neither is high traffic (as you would imagine)
[15:33] <andylockran> is it normal for it to be eating so much memory ?
[15:33] <dogmatic69> andylockran: is that not including cache?
[15:33] <popey> andylockran: http://paste.ubuntu.com/568260/
[15:34] <popey> thats lug.org.uk
[15:34] <popey> which has 100+ lists
[15:35] <andylockran> yeah, Houston, I have a problem :)
[15:35] <andylockran> mailman  25556  0.0 14.8 373684 296316 ?       S    04:01   0:16 /usr/bin/python2.5 /usr/lib64/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
[15:35] <andylockran> that seems to be the culprit for the high memory usage
[15:38] <dwatkins> So the mailman is eating your memory? Makes a change from the dog eating the mailman...
[15:40] <andylockran> :P
[15:40] <mungojerry> andylockran, using zimbra 6.0.10
[15:40] <ikonia> anyone done any motherboard/cpu shopping latley, I need to swap out a legacy board/cpu combo on a Linux box and I'm out of touch
[15:40] <mungojerry> but zimbra 7 is looking nice
[15:40] <popey> ikonia: not I, Azelphur has I think
[15:40] <popey> he keeps up to date on hardware
[15:41] <directhex> don't get one made from wood. wood is bad at conducting electricity. #protip
[15:41] <ikonia> well, I'm scouring the second hand stuff too
[15:41] <ikonia> the board I've got on this box could take a quad core 775 chip, but it won't support more than 2GB ram
[15:42] <popey> i have no idea what a 775 chip is :D
[15:42] <dwatkins> 2 GB of RAM is enough for anyone.... oh wait, it's not 1999 anymore.
[15:42] <ikonia> need something that will support a quad core and more ram, with as much Linux happy kit on, eg: intel chipsets :)
[15:42] <popey> I just maxed out every PC I own to 8GB
[15:42] <directhex> popey, older intel socket, as used for desktop chips from high-end Pentium 4 up to Core 2 Quad
[15:42] <popey> ahh, probably same as my desktop then
[15:43] <popey> Asus thing with C2D which could go as high as Q6600
[15:43]  * popey points ikonia at directhex :)
[15:43] <ikonia> popey: that's the same problem I've got, all my desktops are rammed up to the nines, gone to ram this one up and it won't take more than 2GB...
[15:43] <Azelphur> ikonia: haha good timing just woke up
[15:43] <ikonia> I know directhex is normally on the cutting edge
[15:43] <ikonia> Azelphur: ahhh perfect
[15:43] <popey> novatech bundle?
[15:43] <ikonia> I can go away and do a ton of research or I can ask experence
[15:43] <Azelphur> I'm not that amazing on hardware, when I built mine I went to my hardware person and said "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
[15:43] <ikonia> experience
[15:43] <Azelphur> but I'm a bit better having completed the build :)
[15:44] <Azelphur> what's your budget?
[15:44] <ikonia> what's my options for a solid board that will take a good chunk of ram and a quad core cpu
[15:44] <ikonia> budget isn't set, more interested in what I can get
[15:44] <gord> novatech don't do good build quality in my experience of buying one thing from them
[15:44] <gord> which makes me an expert
[15:44] <directhex> that's p45 territory isn't it?
[15:44] <directhex> wife's is g33
[15:44] <Azelphur> ikonia: you can get i7 boards reasonably cheap now
[15:44] <ikonia> this isn't a performance whore, so doesn't have to be leading edge
[15:44] <ikonia> just solid,
[15:44] <ikonia> I'm lookin on scan at the moment
[15:44] <ikonia> looking
[15:44] <Azelphur> you want a second hand one? :D
[15:44] <ikonia> new or second hand
[15:44] <directhex> yeah, p45 is the only living chipset for s755
[15:44] <ikonia> not really bothered
[15:45] <popey>  /join #ubuntu-swapshop
[15:45] <brobostigon> see you all later, have fun.bye-
[15:45] <ikonia> popey: that can't exist !
[15:45]  * Azelphur has an Asus Striker 2 Formula with 8GB of DDR2 800Mhz RAM and a Q6600 @ 2.4ghz on the table next to him
[15:45] <popey> 01 811 8055
[15:45] <popey> iirc
[15:45] <directhex> wait, nope, p45 is gone
[15:45] <directhex> it's into "only embedded gpu etc" ranges like g33
[15:45] <ikonia> Azelphur: that may tick the box, is it for sale ?
[15:45] <Azelphur> yea, that's my old PC :D
[15:46] <popey> \o/ win
[15:46] <ikonia> q6600 used to be very cool
[15:46] <Azelphur> it also has an 8800GT graphics card, and a 250GB hard drive
[15:46] <ikonia> Azelphur: how many nics on it
[15:46] <Azelphur> no case, though
[15:46] <Azelphur> it has 2 onboard network devices
[15:46] <ikonia> don't want graphics cards or disks or anything like that
[15:46] <ikonia> hang on, let me check it out on line
[15:46] <mungojerry> popey, wikipedia tells me thats the seconds series phone number
[15:46] <directhex> wife has an e6850 iirc, made more sense for her than the q6600
[15:47] <ikonia> annoying, nforce chipset
[15:47] <ikonia> not sure if I want that
[15:47] <mungojerry> "The telephone number for the first series of the show was 01 288 8055.  This number was also used for many other BBC phone-in events, with the  result that on one occasion a young caller trying to reach Swap Shop instead got through to a phone-in with the then Prime Minister James Callaghan."
[15:47] <directhex> ikonia, market's flooded with intel chipsetted gigabytes in that market.
[15:47] <Azelphur> ikonia: *shrug* I ran Ubuntu on it for years flawlessly
[15:47] <ikonia> looks solid though, ticking all the boxes
[15:47] <Azelphur> wine gaming and stuff
[15:47] <ikonia> Azelphur: I won't be running ubuntu and the support of the chipset is quite important
[15:47] <Azelphur> ah
[15:47] <ikonia> Azelphur: just researching
[15:48] <ikonia> directhex: are they much cop ?
[15:48] <directhex> ikonia, intel boards for your cpu: http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Motherboards-Intel/357/130/574/611
[15:48] <Azelphur> I've got a couple of people interested in buying the whole lot, so if they fall through I'll send it in your direction :p
[15:48]  * mungojerry wonders if intel will buy the trolltech guys
[15:48] <ikonia> £34 !!!! my word
[15:50] <mungojerry> "intel said its partner Nokia dropped the MeeGo operating system after Microsoft offered "incredible" amounts of money for the phonemaker to switch to Windows but it would find new partners for MeeGo."
[15:50] <ikonia> I can get an ok asus board for £38 !!! that's mental
[15:51] <Azelphur> ikonia: if it's your first built it's a good idea to buy your stuff from scan, that's what I did
[15:51] <Azelphur> they do insurance against accidental damage during install
[15:51] <Azelphur> so if you drop it while installing it they'll replace it for free basically
[15:51] <ikonia> Azelphur: not first build, just being lazy doing research
[15:51] <Azelphur> :)
[15:53] <directhex> Azelphur, ikonia knows his stuff
[15:53] <directhex> well
[15:53] <directhex> knew, maybe? :p
[15:53] <popey> hehe mungojerry
[15:54] <Azelphur> :)
[15:55] <mungojerry> does anyone know if it's possible to create clickable TOC in an openoffice doc as resulting pdf?
[15:55] <mungojerry> s/as/and
[15:55] <dwatkins> it should be, since PDF supports this, mungojerry
[15:57] <ikonia> ha ha
[15:57] <ikonia> just a bit rusty on the current hardware wizard stuff
[15:58] <ikonia> is it worth going to the I7 platform ?
[15:59] <daubers> Blasted poxy SCSI cables
[15:59] <popey> my boss has an core i thing laptop
[15:59] <popey> he seems happy with it
[15:59] <popey> 8 cores, 12GB RAM
[15:59] <popey> insane laptop
[16:00] <directhex> ikonia, is it a hardcore box?
[16:00] <ikonia> but it won't be hammered hard
[16:00] <ikonia> nah
[16:00] <ikonia> it will host a few kvm vm's though
[16:00] <directhex> encrypted?
[16:00] <ikonia> nah
[16:00] <dwatkins> popey: I have a core i7 with 8GB RAM
[16:00] <ikonia> at home so no risk
[16:01] <dwatkins> popey: a laptop, that is
[16:01] <popey> hehe
[16:01] <popey> can't see myself buying another laptop anytime soon
[16:01] <popey> cant justify it
[16:01] <dwatkins> I can run several virtual machines without noticing a slowdown, which is really handy
[16:03] <ikonia> to run a couple of vm's do I really need to move to the I7 platform, I don't think so (but I don't know)
[16:04] <ikonia> rats, just found the perfect board but it only supports 4GB ram
[16:07] <ikonia> cool, the lesser model supports both ddr3 and ddr2, and in ddr2 mode it supports 8GB
[16:08] <directhex> there's no i7 no laptops!
[16:08] <directhex> just rebadged i5!
[16:08] <directhex> argh!
[16:08] <dwatkins> directhex: oh?
[16:08] <danfish> ikonia: i've a laptop with a mere i3 4gb of RAM, and encryption, and two VM's - W7 and natty, running just fine
[16:08] <dwatkins> ikonia: I also run VMs on a core2duo with 4 GB RAM
[16:08] <directhex> dwatkins, if you're using memory in multiples of 2 not 3, it's i5!
[16:09] <directhex> danfish, the key with encryption is aesni, which brand new chips (rather than fast ones) have
[16:09] <popey> directhex: what does my bosses laptop have then with 12GB RAM?
[16:09] <dwatkins> directhex: I'm just going by the computer's own description of its own CPU
[16:09] <directhex> dwatkins, you trust *intel* to know about intel models? foolish boy!
[16:09] <directhex> popey, a desktop cpu, probably
[16:10] <directhex> nope, judging by dell's pages it's common enough with an i7 8xx (i5)
[16:11] <popey> ah
[16:11] <danfish> directhex: didn't know that - is aesni 'listed' in /proc/cpuinfo?
[16:11] <ikonia> wolfdale or yorkfield cpu's ? I assume wolfdate
[16:11] <ikonia> dale
[16:11] <ikonia> o, they are only duo, yorkfield it is
[16:13] <directhex> danfish, "aes" in /proc/cpuinfo
[16:14] <directhex> danfish, may need enabling in the bios. if you have pclmulqdq you likely have access to aesni
[16:16]  * gord approved a merge into unity today that lets you have a fully transparent panel, its sooo pretty
[16:16] <popey> :(
[16:16] <ikonia> the ammount of stuff scan has on Pre order awaiting ETA is realling annoying
[16:17]  * popey hands ikonia an ebuyer link
[16:17] <gord> popey, no chance of you grabbing alpha one and upgrading that, skipping xserver updates?
[16:17] <ikonia> ahhh got it covered, it's ok
[16:17] <ikonia> not in a massive urgency as still waiting for centos 6
[16:18] <shauno> a bit late, but i7 is happy with 12.  it is a multiple of 3.
[16:19] <Azelphur> I use 12GB with my I7, 3x4 :)
[16:19] <popey> gord: thats quite a ballsache
[16:19] <mungojerry> national express have emailed me to say that today there will be a full compliment of carriages on the service today
[16:20] <mungojerry> grammar nazi wonders if i need to pay them
[16:21] <dogmatic69> i want to get a ssd but dont feel like reinstalling everything, is there a way to copy everything from one drive to the other
[16:21] <gord> popey, i agree, but its an option
[16:21] <danfish> directhex: tx :)
[16:21] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: scroll up ;) it's been discussed plenty today
[16:21] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: dd
[16:21] <dwatkins> o.O Azelphur
[16:21] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: :O
[16:22] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: :?
[16:22] <Azelphur> what?
[16:22] <dwatkins> Are you seriously suggesting dd as a means to migrate data, Azelphur?
[16:22] <Azelphur> dwatkins: sure, I've done it before when want to clone a hard drive
[16:22]  * mgdm seconds dd
[16:22] <dwatkins> I agree it could be used if you happen to have two identical disks, but that's unlikely when switching from platters to SSD
[16:22] <shauno> it's almost sane when the drives are identical
[16:23] <popey> gord iirc i had issues with alpha 1, so i actually had to install 10.10 and upgrade
[16:23] <mgdm> I've done it from an 80GB disk to a 500GB disk
[16:23] <mungojerry> OT: has anyone ever been to a school reunion?
[16:23] <popey> yes
[16:23] <mgdm> I then used parted to resize the partitions
[16:23] <mgdm> job done
[16:23] <dwatkins> I guess you ended up with a single 80 GB partition, mgdm
[16:23] <Azelphur> mgdm: indeed, that's what I do
[16:23] <mungojerry> how did it go? is it mainly bragging?
[16:23] <ikonia> popey: Azelphur directhex big thanks for the input
[16:23] <popey> np
[16:23] <Azelphur> :)
[16:23] <dwatkins> I wouldn't want to rely on resizing, and would prefer to have a second copy of the data
[16:23] <directhex> pretty sure i still owe ikonia a beer
[16:24] <dogmatic69> i was thinking livedisk + sudo cp /* ... but the permissions would be borked im sure
[16:24] <mgdm> dwatkins: No - 4 partitions (1 recovery, 1 Windows, 2 ext3)
[16:24] <mgdm> Oh, and a swap
[16:24] <popey> if only my toshiba supported more than 3.x GB RAM :(
[16:24] <popey> stupid intel chipset
[16:25] <ikonia> directhex: I think I owe you a few, we are more than even
[16:26] <Azelphur> yay, got my HTC Desire Z working again after flashing a ROM from a broken SD card
[16:26] <mungojerry> azelphur is that one with the keyboard
[16:26] <mgdm> dwatkins: grub moved across too, so when the DD was finished I swapped the drive in and the laptop booted straight away
[16:26] <Azelphur> :D
[16:26] <mgdm> zero complications whatsoeever
[16:27]  * mungojerry has an htc desire (no Z or S), but still likes it
[16:33] <directhex> waiting for Pre³
[16:33] <ikonia> directhex: the android / blackberry style phone you linked to the other day looks interesting
[16:33] <ikonia> looks a good combo of solid OS and handset
[16:34] <directhex> ikonia, still pissed with your fruitphone?
[16:35] <ikonia> I accept it as the best of a bed bunch
[16:35] <ikonia> not pleased, but not displeased,
[16:35] <ikonia> I find some of the lock down offensive
[16:35] <ikonia> but best of a bad bunch sum it up reasonably well
[16:36] <ikonia> I regret swapping from the blackberry physical hand set, but blackberry OS 6 is a disgrace
[16:36] <ikonia> I regret swapping from the nokia hand set, but symbian....is comical
[16:36] <directhex> i think android is unstoppable... i don't think it's good, but it's unstoppable.
[16:36] <mungojerry> i'm amazed that so many people use blackbery
[16:36] <directhex> symbian was a corpse 5 years ago
[16:36] <ikonia> didn't leave me much option
[16:36] <directhex> WP7 is more locked down than iphone
[16:36] <ikonia> directhex: and you'll remember me ranting at it for about 5 years
[16:36] <directhex> blackberry... i need to be convinced it has a future, and isn't just pretty symbian
[16:36] <ikonia> the handset I had was amazing, the best there is, the OS.....well, a disgrace
[16:37] <directhex> webos... i don't know how rosy its future is, but HP are going all-out with it
[16:37] <ikonia> directhex: didn't care if blackberry had a long term future needed something "now" the apps on it are much better than they where, but blackberry OS is a bug fest that you can't trust
[16:37] <directhex> and webos is my favourite of the bunch
[16:37] <ikonia> it's too infant for me at this moment
[16:38] <directhex> fair enough
[16:38] <ikonia> I am interested in the android+blackberry handset you posted though, that looks like it could kill the fruit device for me
[16:38] <directhex> ikonia, which device?
[16:38] <ikonia> the white blackberry looking prototype device you posted from HTC with android on
[16:39] <directhex> wait, the salsa?
[16:39] <directhex> um, chacha
[16:39] <directhex> http://www.htc.com/uk/product/chacha/overview.html
[16:39] <ikonia> that's it
[16:39] <mungojerry> android needs a bigger screen really
[16:40] <directhex> pre³ for me. unless it's o2-only, in which case screw o2 in the ear. http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre3/
[16:40] <mungojerry> ikonia, you would prefer chacha to http://www.htc.com/uk/product/desirez/overview.html ?
[16:40] <popey> phones with facebook buttons
[16:40] <popey> eww
[16:40] <directhex> popey, i know :|
[16:40] <daubers> directhex: I made a spinny ball in the palm pdk the other day
[16:41] <popey> i made a bouncy cube on the iphone sdk the other day :D
[16:41] <directhex> popey, not even the facebookiest device! INQ are making android even facebookier
[16:41] <ikonia> mungojerry: nah, sliding bricks are not my think
[16:41] <directhex> daubers, no PDK for linux yet :(
[16:41] <ikonia> pre looks like blackberry tourch
[16:41] <ikonia> torch
[16:42] <daubers> directhex: no :( But I need socket access for what I'm trying to achieve, so used it on the aluminium evil box
[16:42] <directhex> ikonia, or vice versa. e.g. the blackberry playbook is a total ripoff of webos
[16:42] <mungojerry> htc are the new nokia :P
[16:42] <ikonia> yes, true
[16:42] <ikonia> @directhex
[16:42] <daubers> WebOS strikes me as a very good tablet OS tbh
[16:43] <daubers> Be quite interested in the touchbook
[16:43] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[16:43] <pr0ph3t> how do I check which packages have recently been updated?
[16:44] <directhex> ikonia, ultimately, android feels a bit... glued together. kinda like the typical linux desktop, to an extent. webos experience is smoother and fruitier, but comes out of the box with root access running a real GNU userland
[16:45] <popey> pr0ph3t: look in software centre
[16:45] <popey> there is a history option
[16:45] <ikonia> directhex: sounds promising, I've stayed away from android for the reason you've just said
[16:45] <popey> directhex: how is that practically useful?
[16:46] <popey> in a "real world, its useful to have GNU userland on a phone" type way?
[16:46] <pr0ph3t> popey, thanks
[16:46] <directhex> popey, it makes porting apps to the device much much easier
[16:47] <directhex> popey, it has "real" linux with linux libs you can develop against or supplement
[16:47] <popey> right
[16:47] <popey> what practically would someone port to a phone?
[16:47] <ikonia> I guess it depends how active development is
[16:47] <ikonia> and maintained
[16:47] <directhex> popey, libs more than apps.
[16:47] <popey> I mean people tell me its ace to have highly portable devices
[16:48] <popey> but evolution / firefox etc are just not cut out for that size/spec device
[16:48] <ikonia> if it falls to the total unmaintained or conflicting state of a lot of the current Linux packages, there will be trouble
[16:48] <mungojerry> in a tablet context , it could mean a lot
[16:48] <daubers> popey: Means it would be relativley easy to take something like shotwell and have a mobile version of it (depending on how well shotwell is built)
[16:48] <directhex> popey, consider every lib you might use for development.
[16:48] <shauno> evo still wouldn't like tablets.  it barely tolerates netbooks.
[16:48] <directhex> popey, for perspective, webos uses libpurple (pidgin core) for its IM client
[16:48] <popey> i dont envisage many desktop apps making that transition
[16:48] <mungojerry> a lightweight one like postler though ?
[16:49] <popey> that makes sense directhex
[16:49] <directhex> ships with Qt4
[16:49] <directhex> ffmpeg for media
[16:49] <directhex> also gstreamer
[16:49] <mungojerry> gpodder would be useful for managing podcasts across devices
[16:49] <gord> http://i.imgur.com/QK6hM.png - how are we supposed to market ubuntu in new zealand?
[16:50] <directhex> libjpeg, libexif, libflac
[16:50] <mungojerry> gord, that's OK purple =/= aubergine ;)
[16:50] <daubers> gord: Quick! Trademark the colour black! No-one can have a black out without a licence
[16:50] <directhex> hell, webos uses ubuntu's Upstart init system
[16:50] <directhex> vpnc for Cisco VPN support
[16:51] <davmor2> gord: haha!
[16:51] <mungojerry> webos is a dodgy name. i never tried out pclinuxOS on the basis of it's lame name
[16:51] <jpds> gord: aubergine.
[16:51] <davmor2> gord: you gonna point that out to legal :D
[16:51] <directhex> alog mungojerry's lines, it has libgpod
[16:51] <ikonia> directhex: I'll be watching with interest how it progresses
[16:51] <mungojerry> directhez, how does it compare with meego
[16:51] <ikonia> directhex: be interesting of comercial businesses, eg: tomtom pickup development for it
[16:52] <directhex> mungojerry, it's shipping, meego isn't?
[16:52] <mungojerry> intel have other ideas apparently
[16:52] <directhex> i can't really risk talking about meego btw, other than in broad terms
[16:52] <ikonia> ?
[16:52] <ikonia> risk talking about it ?
[16:52] <mungojerry> in case u get upset?
[16:52] <popey> he works for collabora
[16:52] <popey> iirc?
[16:53] <popey> he knows secret stuff :D
[16:53] <mungojerry> heh
[16:53] <shauno> or isn't sure what is and isn't secret, and terrified of lawyers.  that's when NDAs get annoying
[16:53] <ikonia> he knows it sucks ?
[16:54] <popey> he knows there will only ever be about 2 devices that run it
[16:54] <directhex> aha, shauno has it
[16:54] <popey> (badly)
[16:54] <directhex> i don't know what's public and what isn't. i know our website says we are familiar with meego
[16:54] <mungojerry> i would like a good real linux tablet OS..but while i wait, i'm getting to like android a lot
[16:54] <ikonia> he's not taking the bait
[16:55] <popey> gord: when are you going to port unity to the ipad?
[16:55] <popey> hmm hmm!?
[16:55] <mungojerry> he's waiting till ipad2 :P
[16:55] <directhex> ipad2 is old hat, everyone's excited about ipad3
[16:55] <davmor2> popey: your asuming he hasn't
[16:56] <directhex> (no i'm not kidding, i don't know why)
[16:56] <gord> hrm, someone got ubuntu running on the ipad didn't they?
[16:56] <gord> i think linaro are porting compiz to opengles, so its not out of the realm of possibility
[16:59] <andylockran> bye
[16:59] <directhex> done for the day \o/
[17:00] <ikonia> me too
[17:00] <directhex> 3 hour day tomorrow \o/
[17:01] <shauno> 3 hours would be perfect.  that's perfectly timed for breakfast, nap, lunch, then home again
[17:02] <bigcalm> What's the last date you can have in 2038 with 32bit?
[17:02] <shauno> 03:14:07 UTC on Tuesday, 19 January 2038
[17:03] <bigcalm> Ta
[17:03] <bigcalm> 1/1/2038 will do
[17:03] <popey> "two digits for the year will do"
[17:03] <bigcalm> Haha
[17:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: don't worry though the world ends next year the Aztec's said so
[17:04] <shauno> two digits will be fine; I'll be dead before it's a problem all over again :)
[17:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: sorry, I'm not a Daily Mail reader
[17:04] <popey> s/Aztech/Mayan/
[17:04] <davmor2> popey: meh I was close
[17:04] <popey> s/h//
[17:04] <popey> :)
[17:04] <popey> you were
[17:35] <Azelphur> Is there any tool that allows you to easily browse the contents of a dd image? like the archive manager or something
[17:36] <popey> mount it
[17:36] <popey> if by "dd image" you mean, it's an image of a disk
[17:36] <davmor2> damn you popey :D
[17:36] <Azelphur> yea it's the image of a disk, mounting is long though :(
[17:36] <popey> long?
[17:36] <Azelphur> have to go into terminal, create a folder, look up the long command to mount it again >.>
[17:36] <Azelphur> I just want to click it.
[17:36] <popey> meh
[17:36] <bigcalm> Long?
[17:37] <jpds> The time you spent complaining, you could of done it by now.
[17:37]  * popey walks away
[17:37] <popey> +12
[17:37] <bigcalm> jpds: ++
[17:37] <Azelphur> jpds: except I find myself doing this regularly :)
[17:37] <popey> I have already looked this up
[17:37] <jpds> Azelphur: Script it.
[17:37] <popey> before you finished typing
[17:37] <popey> slacker
[17:37] <popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mount+a+dd+image
[17:37] <Azelphur> so basically there isn't or you don't know :p
[17:37] <Azelphur> telling me how to do something I already know which isn't the answer to my question is pointless :D
[17:37] <popey> pack it in
[17:38] <popey> seriously
[17:38] <davmor2> Azelphur: save with .img at the end and then right click open with archive mounter iirc :)  done
[17:38] <popey> also depends how the dd image was made
[17:38] <Azelphur> davmor2: doesn't seem to work, I'll try running nautilus from a terminal to see if it says anything
[17:39] <popey> whether it's an image of the disk or partition
[17:39] <Azelphur> it's of the disk
[17:39] <popey> the disk which was exhibiting brokenness?
[17:40] <Azelphur> yea, the microsd
[17:40] <Azelphur> I got most of the data I reckon, only like 6 bad sector errors
[17:40] <davmor2> Azelphur: you know you dd the breakage in right :)
[17:40] <Azelphur> indeed I do
[17:41] <Azelphur> I know there may be data loss, but getting some of it back is better than none :)
[17:41] <davmor2> Azelphur: that might be why there is issues mounting it
[17:41] <popey> you tried ddrescue?
[17:41] <Azelphur> popey: nope, there's not an amazing amount of stuff on there I need to keep
[17:42] <popey> well, ddrescue (linked from the google search results above) may help
[17:42] <Azelphur> cool
[17:42] <popey> feel free to ignore me because I know nothing right.
[17:42] <davmor2> popey:  can you fsck a .img file?
[17:42] <Azelphur> I'll try that if I have issues with the image I have
[17:42] <popey> davmor2: if you mount it rw, yeah
[17:42] <popey> not sure you'd want to fsck it
[17:42] <popey> Azelphur: make a copy of the image :)
[17:43] <popey> then you can try lots of times
[17:43] <popey> the beauty of images
[17:43] <Azelphur> :)
[17:46] <ali1234> if you double click a filesystem image the automounter should take care of it
[17:46] <ali1234> it works for cd and dvd isos anyway
[17:47] <Azelphur> yea, I use it with iso's all the time, doesn't seem to work with disk images though :(
[17:47] <ali1234> it wont work with whole disk images
[17:47] <ali1234> you need to use the partmapper for those
[17:48] <popey> do you /91
[17:48] <popey> bah
[17:50] <ali1234> instead of the terrible instructions on ubuntu forums linked by popey, you can do this, which is much easier: http://tinyapps.org/docs/mount_partitions_from_disk_images.html
[17:56] <popey> haha, I didnt link to any forums
[18:15] <andylockran> guys, am I being dense?  http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/psimage.1gmt.html
[18:15] <andylockran> where can I find that program?
[18:15] <andylockran> *for lucid*
[18:17] <andylockran> sorted
[18:17] <andylockran> was hiding outside my path
[18:17] <andylockran> anyhoo..
[18:17] <andylockran> what's a good ps reader on ubuntu
[18:24]  * daubers ponders heading home
[18:37] <davmor2> andylockran: ps as in postscript,  if so evince should read it
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> evening everyone
[19:05] <jacobw> Evening
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:07] <jacobw> hows goes it?
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> good, just ran 3.6 miles in 30 minutes :)
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> (that means I'm faster than tonywhitmore :))
[19:08] <jacobw> Oh wow
[19:08] <jacobw> Solid ground or treadmill?
[19:09] <jacobw> Ha, #ubuntu-uk race off
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> solid ground
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> I'm running 20km in 2 weeks
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> as in.. in 2 weeks time, there is a 20km race
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> (and I'm running it)
[19:10] <jacobw> cool :)
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: last year, around this time, I couldn't run 5 minutes
[19:12] <jacobw> :(
[20:01] <penguin42> is it 'legal' to pass more parameters to a variadic function than it actually consumes?
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: C?
[20:01] <penguin42> yeh
[20:01] <penguin42> I think it probably is
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> likely, yes
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> you might leak some memory
[20:02] <penguin42> why?
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> because those variables are pushed onto some kind of stack (I'd guess), space reclaimed when you va_end
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> you know, reading those docs again
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> va_end should do the Right Thing
[20:03] <penguin42> I think it's the normal stack, so I think it should clean up
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: write a tiny program that does this 1000 times, check with valgrind :)
[20:05] <daubers> Evening
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> daubster
[20:07] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah, if valgrind passes it must be right :-)
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> ha http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg7ysmbynd1qz5vuso1_500.jpg
[20:16] <daubers> blimey, it's a lot later than I thought it was
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> daubers: it's 21:17 here :)
[20:20] <penguin42> dah, I can see why oxygen-gtk has such a grim hack now
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> oxygen-gtk?
[20:21] <penguin42> yeh - oxygen theme for gtk apps
[20:21] <penguin42> it's crashing amide for me, and I can see why, they've got a grim hack, but I can't see a less grim hack
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> rm -rf, it's the only solution :)
[20:25] <penguin42> yeh well I did disable it, and I thought I might be able to fix it - but the problem is gtk doesn't provide the useful interface it needs and is too fussy about the parameters to the routine it's using
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: rand(42) doesn't cut it? :)
[20:25] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not enough of the time
[20:33]  * daubers drags out the wii fit
[20:42] <andylockran> howdy all
[20:42] <DJones> Nasty MS, blocking apps with open source licenses from their app store for winmo http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/17/microsoft_bans_opensource_windows_phone/
[20:44] <andylockran> hmm, interesting
[20:44] <andylockran> can kinf of understand avoiding gplv3 though
[20:44] <Azelphur> DJones: don't worry, they'll come along and announce it's just a miscommunication
[20:44] <Azelphur> and we're really nice
[20:44] <DJones> Azelphur: Heh
[20:44] <Azelphur> it's part of their "Do something evil, then say woa woa, you've got it all wrong, we're not evil honest"
[20:44] <Azelphur> strategy.
[20:45] <DJones> Azelphur: And they'll say the Windows 7 is actually released under the same license :)
[20:45] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:48] <ali1234> http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid14_gci1527534,00.html
[20:48] <ali1234> this is much worse
[20:48] <ali1234> do we have a backup plan for when you can't go on any major ISP unless your operating system has been certified as "healthy" by microsoft?
[20:48] <ali1234> does ubuntu have any BBS software? fidonet etc?
[20:49] <andylockran> BBS?
[20:52] <DJones> andylockran: Bullitin Board Software
[20:54] <DJones> I guess anyway
[20:55] <DJones> !info papercut
[20:55] <DJones> Maybe not that then
[20:55] <andylockran> phpBB ?
[20:57] <DJones> ali1234: Not sure whether any of these are available but may help http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Internet/Communications/BBS/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BBS_software#Unix_and_compatible
[21:38] <andylockran> is there an etherpad equivalent of a spreadsheet?
[21:40] <tomfromdelmonte> anyone feel like givinng advice to a noob about running ubuntu server?
[21:40] <andylockran> yeah sure
[21:41] <andylockran> whats up tomfromdelmonte
[21:41] <tomfromdelmonte> well, firstly im new to linux, is there a way i can put a gui on it?
[21:41] <tomfromdelmonte> i have ubuntu deskto on another laptop
[21:41]  * brobostigon-g1 is ircing from the pub.pub quiz. yay
[21:42] <andylockran> haha
[21:42] <andylockran> at the Fleur de Lis?
[21:43]  * brobostigon-g1 scp's everyone real ale
[21:43] <brobostigon-g1> reindeer
[21:43] <andylockran> tomfromdelmonte: you're probably don't really want to put X on it - that's not generally done for servers.
[21:43] <andylockran> tomfromdelmonte: what did you want to run?
[21:43] <tomfromdelmonte> no idea...
[21:44] <tomfromdelmonte> i just bought an old-ish hp proliant server
[21:44] <tomfromdelmonte> just to learn about administering a server
[21:44] <tomfromdelmonte> and add it to my cisco lab
[21:44] <brobostigon-g1> boo. battery dying. :(
[21:44] <tomfromdelmonte> thought i would try hosting some web stuff, maybe ftp
[21:45] <popey> tomfromdelmonte: you could put a gui on it
[21:45] <popey> tomfromdelmonte: or you could add a web based admin tool like webmin or ebox
[21:45] <tomfromdelmonte> what is that?
[21:45] <popey> web based admin tools :)
[21:45] <tomfromdelmonte> is it a bit like remote desktop?
[21:45] <popey> no
[21:46] <tomfromdelmonte> will windows remote desktop work with ubuntu?
[21:46] <popey> remote desktop controls the actual desktop gui
[21:46] <tomfromdelmonte> and vice-versa?
[21:46] <popey> depends what you mean by "work with"
[21:46] <popey> you can remotely control windows servers/desktops from ubuntu, yes
[21:46] <tomfromdelmonte> really?!!!
[21:46] <popey> yes
[21:46] <tomfromdelmonte> how does one do that
[21:46] <popey> there's a client in applications -> internet
[21:47] <popey> just put in the ip/host of the windows box and you can see its desktop
[21:47] <popey> like... well, exactly like remote desktop :)
[21:47]  * brobostigon-g1 scp's evryone a beer before his battery dies.
[21:47] <andylockran> ta
[21:47] <tomfromdelmonte> assuming u have redp enabled and an account on window?s machine, right
[21:47] <popey> indeed
[21:47] <brobostigon-g1> rdp
[21:48] <tomfromdelmonte> ok so that works ubuntu>windows
[21:48] <brobostigon-g1> rdp. yes
[21:48] <tomfromdelmonte> but windows rdp wont let u ineract with an ubuntu desktop, right?
[21:49] <popey> well
[21:49] <popey> you can with vnc
[21:49] <brobostigon-g1> ubuntu can do rdp aswll/
[21:49] <brobostigon-g1> yes.
[21:49] <popey> ubuntu has vnc server installed out of the box
[21:49] <popey> and you can get vnc clients for windows
[21:49] <tomfromdelmonte> vnc...
[21:49] <popey> so you can remotely control ubuntu from windows
[21:49] <tomfromdelmonte> is that open source?
[21:49] <popey> yes, google it, its quite well known
[21:49] <popey> yeah
[21:50] <popey> free and easy to use too
[21:50] <tomfromdelmonte> is it secure?
[21:50] <popey> it can be :)
[21:50] <tomfromdelmonte> lol it can be
[21:50] <popey> you can tunnel vnc over ssh, but you dont have to
[21:50] <tomfromdelmonte> but its not by default, right?
[21:50] <popey> yeah
[21:50] <brobostigon-g1> vnc was originally designed over in cambridge.
[21:50] <tomfromdelmonte> so security is opt-in not opt-out
[21:50] <popey> indeed
[21:50] <tomfromdelmonte> sounds like facebook
[21:50] <popey> but its very easy to implement :)
[21:50] <brobostigon-g1> agreed
[21:51] <popey> unlike facebook ;)
[21:51] <brobostigon-g1> facebook can and is very open by default.
[21:51] <popey> tomfromdelmonte: if you get any more questions, we tend to hang out here most days, so feel free to drop by any time :D
[21:51] <popey> we're generally happy to try to answer any ubuntu related questions
[21:52] <popey> and often answer questinos about cake, chickens, cheese, minecraft, trains and roundabouts too.
[21:52] <tomfromdelmonte> well, i do like cheese
[21:52] <tomfromdelmonte> in moderation of course
[21:53] <tomfromdelmonte> im chatting to you from a backtrack 4 virtual machine right now
[21:53] <penguin42> a what?
[21:54] <tomfromdelmonte> im on a windows machine
[21:54] <tomfromdelmonte> runing a linux distro is a vm
[21:54] <tomfromdelmonte> i think its based on ubuntu
[21:54] <popey> thats how a lot of people start out
[21:54] <popey> yes, backtrack is ubuntu based
[21:54] <tomfromdelmonte> lol i have to on this cuz its a work laptop
[21:54] <tomfromdelmonte> they would go mad if i took windows off it and put linux on
[21:54] <popey> :)
[21:55] <tomfromdelmonte> i thought downloading backtrack would make me the worlds no.1 hacker
[21:55] <popey> a common misconception
[21:56] <tomfromdelmonte> lol yeah
[21:56] <tomfromdelmonte> but at least it got me interested in linux
[21:56] <popey> i thought playing minecraft would make me the best miner
[21:56] <popey> look how that turned out
[21:56] <tomfromdelmonte> what is minecraft?
[21:56] <popey> a silly game
[21:56] <tomfromdelmonte> lol, what games arent silly?
[21:56] <tomfromdelmonte> i used to play runescape
[21:57] <popey> this is somewhat more silly than most :)
[21:57] <Baikonur> minecraft is a non-silly non-game
[21:57] <tomfromdelmonte> how so ?
[21:57] <Baikonur> it's a game asmuch as a pile of legos is a game
[21:58] <tomfromdelmonte> i try to stay away from games unless they r educational
[21:59] <Baikonur> i try to stay away from games, if they're educational
[21:59] <tomfromdelmonte> the cisco subnetting game is pretty cool, for about 5 minutes
[22:06] <andylockran> haha
[22:31] <HazRPG> poke
[22:37] <cbx33> hey peeps
[22:37] <cbx33> wondering if you guys can help me with something
[22:37] <cbx33> http://en.newinstance.it/2010/05/23/git-autocompletion-and-enhanced-bash-prompt/ - just added that PS1 prompt line to me bashrc
[22:37] <cbx33> then i took it out again...well commented it
[22:38] <cbx33> but now when i go down into subdirs they are all shown in the prompt line
[22:38] <cbx33> I'm sure it didn't do that previously
[22:38] <cbx33> or am I wrong
[22:38] <cbx33> maybe I'm wrong
[22:39] <HazRPG> \o
[22:41] <dwatkins> cbx33: changes to the file may not be seen until you log out completely from the GUI
[22:41] <cbx33> ah
[22:41] <cbx33> ok
[22:41] <cbx33> doh
[22:41] <cbx33> bbiab then i guess
[22:41] <dwatkins> I'm not certain, but it's worth checking
[22:51] <andylockran> :)
[22:52] <martin__> what the heck
[22:52] <andylockran> whassup?
[22:53] <bigcalm> Moon
[22:56] <dwatkins> That's no moon.
[22:56] <andylockran> ?
[22:57] <HazRPG> a friend of mine from the other side of the globe just sent me this on facebook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8d6JhOmcRE
[22:57] <bigcalm> It's a spacestation
[22:58] <bigcalm> HazRPG: this is why I have decent cans
[22:58]  * bigcalm has a one man rave in his office
[22:59] <HazRPG> decent cans?
[22:59] <HazRPG> oh speakers :P?
[23:00] <HazRPG> STOP!! Mobile disco time!
[23:00] <bigcalm> No, cans are headphones
[23:00] <HazRPG> ah ^^ new it was something speaker related
[23:01] <bigcalm> +k
[23:01] <HazRPG> knew*
[23:01] <HazRPG> heh yeah
[23:01] <bigcalm> HazRPG: http://cuth.eu/oonst
[23:03]  * HazRPG looks for more crooooooooooooookerrrrrrs music
[23:04] <HazRPG> bigcalm: xD
[23:05] <andylockran> I have a log of the last 200000+ lines said in this IRC chatroom
[23:05] <andylockran> that's a lot of useless data sitting there :)
[23:05] <andylockran> and it takes up 14MB
[23:05] <bigcalm> Text compresses well
[23:06] <HazRPG> hamitron!!! \o/
[23:06]  * HazRPG runs up and hugs him
[23:06] <hamitron> :)
[23:06] <andylockran> aww
[23:06]  * andylockran group hungs
[23:06] <hamitron> \o/
[23:06] <HazRPG> -n*
[23:07] <hamitron> much happening?
[23:08] <HazRPG> I wonder how hard it would be to make a story using people's irc names...
[23:08] <HazRPG> hamitron: you missed this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8d6JhOmcRE&fmt=18
[23:09] <hamitron> ah, seems my internet filter blocks youtube
[23:09] <hamitron> :/
[23:09] <penguin42> HazRPG: We're a bit low on words
[23:09] <HazRPG> penguin42: obviously it doesn't /just/ have to be irc names
[23:10] <penguin42> oh
[23:14] <HazRPG> HazRPG picks up a bag, and puts it into the hoover; wearing a funkyHat. He goes to grab choffee, for his MonsterKiller mug. He puts on his stereo, and plays a little Pendulum. Suddenly a SWAT team come out and requesting a bigcalm - because of the loud music!
[23:15] <bigcalm> What the?
[23:15] <HazRPG> well I tried...
[23:15] <bigcalm> :)
[23:15] <dutchie> you will really upset all these people you have highlighted for no reason now :)
[23:16] <HazRPG> nah
[23:16] <bigcalm> You distracted them (myself includded)
[23:16] <HazRPG> :)
[23:17] <HazRPG> heh, just realised the riceball smileys I put on pidgin worked
[23:19] <HazRPG> ヽ(ｏ`皿′ｏ)ﾉ <== creeper!
[23:21] <HazRPG> did I scare him?
[23:22] <popey> evening all!
[23:22] <andylockran> howdy popey
[23:23]  * andylockran is looking into self-repairing network-raid filesystems
[23:23] <andylockran> am I ahead of the curve, or way behind?
[23:23] <penguin42> self repairing?
[23:24] <AlanBell> HazRPG: you could have worked a chicken into that somehow
[23:24] <HazRPG> AlanBell: really how
[23:24] <HazRPG> ?*
[23:24] <andylockran> penguin42: i.e. if one half disappears, and you bring it back up - it doesn't set itself to primary
[23:24] <penguin42> andylockran: I think dbd is supposed to do that these days
[23:25] <andylockran> drbd looks like a candidate
[23:25] <HazRPG> popey: evening popey :)
[23:25] <penguin42> andylockran: Yeh, I used that years ago and at the time it really required you to figure out who was primary when you started stuff back up; I think it's got smarter now
[23:25] <andylockran> penguin42: is that what you meant?
[23:25] <penguin42> yeh
[23:25] <andylockran> in the kernel from 2.6.33
[23:25] <andylockran> I'm running 2.6.27
[23:26] <penguin42> there are modules/source packages I think
[23:26] <penguin42> andylockran: It's excellent - I ran a Xen pair on top of it for ages
[23:27] <andylockran> penguin42: it does look neat
[23:27] <andylockran> just wish I had a load of test servers to run it on
[23:27] <penguin42> VMs :-)
[23:28] <andylockran> yeah, I'm running openVZ
[23:28] <penguin42> andylockran: Something else to look at is 'sheepdog' - not sure how far that got, it's supposed to be  a distributed thingamy
[23:28] <andylockran> the problem I have is that I'm not particularly CS minded
[23:29] <penguin42> probably best to stick with things that already work then
[23:29] <andylockran> i.e. - I want a) syncronous writes - and am not sure the effect that'd have on performance (though I imagine quite a lot)
[23:29] <penguin42> yeh synchronous writes will suck
[23:32] <andylockran> for low-traffic email they might be ok though
[23:32] <andylockran> it's for storing IMAP folders, so if one server crashes the other can still serve.. or am I thinking of this wrong?
[23:33] <penguin42> Ah, distributed imap stuff; I don't know how to do that - I think it's pretty magic
[23:34] <penguin42> andylockran: I've not done it, but I think some of the imap servers will store stuff in databases, and you can get databases to run in backed up pairs and .... yeh I'm not quite sure
[23:35] <andylockran> In all honesty, most of the stuff I'm setting up to run doesn't need to be fault tolerant, but other things I do will need to be
[23:36] <andylockran> so this is an exercise in using technology that I expect to use in the near future, and using it for our internal systems so that we'll be familiar with it.
[23:36] <penguin42> yeh, I think that might be one of the hardest cases
[23:41] <andylockran> yeah - I think so :(
[23:42] <andylockran> I can work out how to setup a redundant SAN easily enough
[23:42] <andylockran> I say 'easily enough' - I mean there's software and howtos on it.
[23:43] <andylockran> Just wondering whether that may be the best option, and simply NFS it out to servers that would require shared storage
[23:44] <andylockran> Can't quite work out the pros and cons
[23:53] <penguin42> redundant NFS isn't trivial