[00:30]  * popey hugs doctormo 
[00:30] <Pendulum> jono: that's where I was going to suggest
[00:32] <jono> doctormo, which page?
[00:33] <jono> oh I see
[00:33] <jono> will do
[00:33] <doctormo> Tah, we'll update with funding details as they come in on the sub page.
[00:33] <doctormo> Thanks for the good comment on the blog too jono
[00:34] <pleia2> doctormo: oh Hajni is also going to get back to me about ubuntu-hu members offering couches :)
[00:34] <doctormo> pleia2: Also fantastic!
[00:34]  * doctormo hugs pleia2 and ubuntu-hu members.
[00:34]  * pleia2 hugs
[00:34] <pleia2> and yeah, they rock
[00:36] <jono> doctormo, np
[00:41] <JanC> why only 3+ star hotels?
[00:45] <mhall119> because it's being paid for out of pocket
[00:46] <JanC> looking at those prices, my dad & mom obviously paid less for a nice place to sleep in Budapest in December (but probably not near UDS ;) )
[00:47] <pleia2> the area is expensive
[00:47] <popey> no surprise there :S
[00:47] <Pendulum> mhall119: I think he was asking why it didn't include things with fewer stars than 3
[00:47] <JanC> they also didn't look for stars in hotels  ;)
[00:47] <pleia2> and I'd rather not put my fellow attendees up in dumps in a foreign country :)
[00:47] <pleia2> 45 euros is not bad though
[00:48] <Pendulum> yeah, I'd worry about quality of hotels that are less than 3 stars in Budapest. I think I've stayed in one :-/
[00:48] <popey> thats cheap by uk standards
[00:48] <pleia2> yeah, cheap for here too
[00:48] <Pendulum> yeah, 45 euros is very good for hotels most places
[00:48] <mhall119> I'd imagine that Canonical gets a discounted rate on hotel rooms, any chance that people paying their own way can get a room in the hotel at those rates?
[00:49] <popey> your average cheap chain hotel will be 45-55 GBP which is 53-65 EUR
[00:49] <pleia2> mhall119: I mentioned above that the uds site has a form to fill out if you want to stay there, but the form is MIA, so maybe when that's up it'll tell more about pricing
[00:49] <Pendulum> mhall119: I think Canonical pays the same as the group rate that they offer for people who pay their own way or book from them
[00:49] <mhall119> ok
[00:50] <Pendulum> in Orlando, though, they didn't publish what the group rate was, you had to ask (they did publish it for Brussels)
[00:50]  * mhall119 needs to get his passport paperwork started
[00:50] <Pendulum> mhall119: yes you do!
[00:50] <mhall119> it's such a hassle, you actually have to show up in person
[00:50] <JanC> I did a quick search, and I see Ibis hotels (Accor group) with rooms for 29-39 EUR in Budapest...
[00:50] <mhall119> in person!
[00:51] <mhall119> like it's 1990 or something
[00:51] <Pendulum> haha
[00:51] <JanC> and Ibis isn't even the cheapest hotels in that hotel group...
[00:51] <mhall119> I mean, I have a camera, I have a computer, I can even prove it's me by signing it with my GPG key
[00:51] <pleia2> I ended up paying $75 to get my name change rushed for brussels, oops
[00:51] <mhall119> but no, I have to go stand in line like a luddite
[00:51] <pleia2> it would have been free if I had planned properly :)
[00:52] <Pendulum> I once lost my passport less than a week before I was due to fly
[00:52] <Pendulum> and in that week was a weekend, and Christmas (and Christmas Eve)
[00:52] <Pendulum> there was some really "exciting" manuvering to make that work ;)
[00:53] <mhall119> dang, I need to order a birth certificate from Miami
[00:54] <JanC> mhall119: you need a passport or a visum?
[00:54] <mhall119> passport
[00:55] <JanC> I guess having mandatory ID cards makes getting a passport easier over here (they did the "birth certificate" check when you were born...)
[00:57] <mhall119> my parents are gonna check if they have a copy of mine, but they don't think so
[00:58] <mhall119> oh sweet, I can get my birth certificate from my current county
[00:58] <mhall119> no need for a trip to Miami
[01:04] <mhall119> do I need a passport book, card, or book and card?
[01:18] <IdleOne> mhall119: passport book
[01:18] <JanC> what's a "passport card" ?
[01:18] <IdleOne> the card is enough for when you cross into Canada for example by car or boat.
[01:19] <IdleOne> if you travel by plane they require the book iirc
[01:19] <maco> it's not valid for air travel
[01:19] <JanC> something like our ID cards ?
[01:19] <mhall119> ok, thanks
[01:19] <mhall119> dang the books are expensive though
[01:19] <Pendulum> yeah, passports are not cheap :-/
[01:19] <mhall119> $30 for the card, $110 for the book
[01:20] <maco> HUH
[01:20] <maco> i thought passports were like $60
[01:20] <IdleOne> mhall119: the book is valid all over the world for all types of travel
[01:20] <maco> but the thing i was about to type ("but at least they last ten years") still applies. at least for adults.
[01:20] <JanC> and valif for at least 5 years probably
[01:20] <JanC> or 10  ;)
[01:21] <IdleOne> 5 years for your first book and ten years after that in Canada
[01:21] <IdleOne> not sure why that is though
[01:21] <Pendulum> 10 years if you're over 16 in the US
[01:21] <Pendulum> I think it's 5 if you're under 16
[01:21] <mhall119> oh well, if I get sponsorship for UDS-O, it'll be a small price to pay
[01:21] <Pendulum> :)
[01:22] <IdleOne> ahh maybe that is what i was thinking of Pendulum :)
[01:22] <Pendulum> mhall119: plus then you have it for 10 years for other UDSes and stuff :)
[01:22] <mhall119> exactly
[01:22] <mhall119> except half the UDSes look like they'll be in my back yard again
[01:22] <mhall119> which is also cool
[01:22] <Pendulum> well 1/2 would be in the US probably anyway
[01:23] <JanC> I guess they are easily renewed also, no need to hunt for birth certificates again etc.
[01:23] <mhall119> yeah,  if you have a passport it seems that's all you need to get a new one
[01:23] <Pendulum> so unless you lose it :-/
[01:24]  * mhall119 doesn't plan on losing it
[01:24] <maco> or unless its expired for like > 1yr before you renew
[01:24] <IdleOne> nobody ever does
[01:24] <maco> because if you let it stay expired too long, you're back to applying from scratch, not renewing
[01:24] <Pendulum> mhall119: you're also unlikely to move 2-3 times a year :)
[01:24] <Pendulum> mine went missing in various dorm -> home -> dorm moves
[01:24] <JanC> and AFAIK the EU doesn't have the silly "questionaire" that the US has...   ;)
[01:24] <mhall119> Pendulum: given that we bought our house before the market hit bottom, we're not going anywhere for a while
[01:25] <Pendulum> yeah
[01:25] <Pendulum> I was lucky because we had a copy of my birth certificate already
[01:25] <mhall119> but, at least we have room for guests in October
[01:25] <Pendulum> \o/
[01:25] <Pendulum> I swear if it snows in April, I'm driving down to y'all then just to escape ;)
[01:26] <mhall119> you know you're welcome any time
[01:26] <JanC> like: "did you ever smoke pot?", "did you ever protest US foreign policy?", etc. -- of course everybody answers yes to that :P  (not!)
[01:26] <mhall119> heh
[01:26] <Pendulum> heh
[01:26] <paultag> errrrr
[01:27] <mhall119> does "whining on facebook" count as a protest?
[01:27] <Pendulum> I've never been asked if I'd ever smoked pot when returning to the US
[01:27]  * paultag coughs
[01:27] <Pendulum> That could be a fun question when coming home from Amsterdam :)
[01:27] <mhall119> lol
[01:27] <Pendulum> pain vacations ftw \o/
[01:27] <mhall119> answer: "Well I have *now*"
[01:27] <JanC> Pendulum: it's for non-US-ians travelling to the US  ;)
[01:28] <paultag> mhall119: fun fact, it's still not legal there
[01:28] <Pendulum> JanC: I know. I just didn't realise they asked that much detail
[01:28] <mhall119> paultag: it's not?
[01:28] <Pendulum> nope, it's a loop hole in an old law
[01:28] <paultag> they just have a law saying they won't go after coffe shops that sell pot, given they follow the rules
[01:28] <mhall119> oh
[01:28] <paultag> but it's still not "legal"
[01:28] <JanC> well, they ask about using illegal drugs at least (don't remember if they mentioned pot)
[01:28] <mhall119> so, kind of like California
[01:28] <Pendulum> mhall119: well CA has legalised within the state medical use
[01:28] <paultag> mhall119: well, it's legal there, but the federal law still maintains it's not
[01:29]  * Pendulum is considering a relocation to CA
[01:29] <mhall119> right, but there's still a federal law against it
[01:29] <paultag> mhall119: so no state level officer can go after someone with a script, but goverment feds can
[01:29] <paultag> such as the DEA
[01:29] <paultag> ... not that I know any of this for any reason
[01:29] <JanC> it's not a loophole in the law, they just have a rule that says that amounts under a certain level are not persecuted
[01:30]  * mhall119 loves our mixed-up country
[01:30] <paultag> JanC: right
[01:30] <IdleOne> DEA =? Dude Eer Allyours
[01:30] <mhall119> Drug Enforcement Agency
[01:30] <IdleOne> lol
[01:30] <IdleOne> yeah I know
[01:30] <paultag> bunch of narcs
[01:30] <paultag> I mean, true americans
[01:31] <mhall119> this is a logged channel right?
[01:31] <JanC> in Belgium owning "personal amounts" is not persecuted either, but selling is (unlike most municipalities in The Netherlands, where selling small amounts is not persecuted either)
[01:33] <maco> JanC: to which the answer is "illegal in what jurisdiction?"
[01:33] <Pendulum> mhall119: btw, can you tell Michelle I said congrats?
[01:33] <mhall119> Pendulum: I will when she comes back
[01:33] <mhall119> she'd out celebrating with some friends
[01:33] <Pendulum> :D
[01:33] <Pendulum> actually, it's interesting if you look at various state laws in the US
[01:33] <JanC> maco: using/selling weed is illegal all over The Netherlands  :P
[01:34] <maco> Pendulum: on what?
[01:34] <Pendulum> like in NY possesion under an oz of cannabis is decriminalized
[01:34] <JanC> except when prescribed by anMD
[01:34] <JanC> it's just not persecuted in most places
[01:34] <Pendulum> JanC: yeah, that's why I'd do extra well there. I'm clear medical case :)
[01:35] <JanC> you still need a prescription to make ;)
[01:35] <pleia2> smoking weed is required in san francisco (it's impossible to avoid second hand smoke if you ever go outside :P)
[01:35] <Pendulum> heh
[01:36] <JanC> in Belgium it's legal to use when you have a prescriptio, but nobody can sell it legally, talk about loopholes...  :P
[01:36] <Pendulum> pleia2: I actually am seriously considering relocating to the Bay Area, and that is one of the reasons ;)
[01:36] <Pendulum> JanC: can you grow if you have a prescription?
[01:36] <JanC> Pendulum: growing for personal use is at least decriminalized
[01:37] <Pendulum> JanC: that's also pretty similar to a lot of the medical use laws in the US. It's one of teh reasons my state doesn't have medical use legal, the last governor wouldn't sign the bill that passed because she said she didn't want to encourage people to do something that was illegal (buying)
[01:38] <JanC> it has been proposed that farmacies should sell it...
[01:38] <JanC> when prescribed of course
[01:38] <Pendulum> in California and the parts of Canada where it's prescribable, they have dispensaries
[01:38] <Pendulum> also in Colorado
[01:38] <Pendulum> for people who have prescriptions
[01:39] <Pendulum> I think that's really sensible
[01:39] <Pendulum> but I do try to keep up somewhat on the laws various places
[01:39] <Pendulum> I actually went to the Cannabis Cup one year
[01:39] <pleia2> yeah, the dispensary trucks are painted with flowers and crazy hippy stuff
[01:39] <Pendulum> too many stoners there for me :-/
[01:39] <pleia2> it's very amusing :)
[01:40] <Pendulum> (I don't get high, I actually end up with more energy and better functioning so the traditional lazy stoner type actually annoys me)
[01:40] <JanC> it seems like the problem is with drug registration laws, which mandate that drugs have the same amount of active substances over time
[01:40] <pleia2> they also do delivery
[01:40] <pleia2> pizza, check...!
[01:40] <Pendulum> in the US there is a synthetic THC med, but I don't find it as effective as cannabis (which I prefer to eat or get through a vapourizer than to smoke. Smoking makes me cough)
[01:41] <Pendulum> for the record, I don't actually use it illegally in the US
[01:41] <Pendulum> I just go to Amsterdam when I can afford to do so ;)
[01:41] <Pendulum> and take the legal synthetic THC med
[01:41] <Pendulum> which is also so dangerous to make that we're the only country that makes it
[01:41] <JanC> the thing is, natural Canabis also includes antidotes for some of the side-effects of THC  ;)
[01:41] <JanC> at least, some varieties do
[01:41] <Pendulum> there used to be a plant in Germany that made it, but the stopped due to too many injuries
[01:41] <Pendulum> yeah
[01:45] <JanC> somebody I know got prescribed cannabis once as a possible help for CFS, but she couldn't get it easily within Belgiumn and CFS doesn't make traveling easy...  :-/
[01:47] <Pendulum> yeah
[01:57] <duanedesign> 'lo  Pendulum
[01:59] <Pendulum> hiya duanedesign
[02:01] <duanedesign> amazing it reached 73f/22c today. Finally got rid of most the snow
[02:01] <duanedesign> got to open up all the windows. The cats love that
[02:02] <Pendulum> wow
[02:02] <Pendulum> we got somewhere in the upper 50s here
[02:02] <Pendulum> but still have too much snow
[02:06] <JanC> it's about 2°C now, was around 5-7 °C by day I think
[02:08] <Pendulum> JanC: see, I wouldn't mind that so much. It's the 2+ feet of snow (that still hasn't melted) that's the problem
[02:08] <JanC> eh, I can imagine
[02:09] <JanC> snow melts at that temperature, but probably not very fast...
[02:09] <Pendulum> depends on the level of sun
[02:09] <JanC> I hope at least the sidewalks etc. are cleared?
[02:09] <Pendulum> depends on where you are
[02:09] <Pendulum> there are no sidewalks on my street anyway
[02:10] <Pendulum> but I nearly hurt myself getting petrol in my car because they hadn't cleared around the base of the pumps and it'd iced over
[02:10] <JanC> well, snow always melts when the temperature is 1°C or more, but if there is no sun it can be very slow
[02:10] <maco> O_O huh....
[02:10] <maco> filling up the tank has to suck if you're in a wheelchair
[02:11] <maco> have to get the chair out of the car and set up, scoot out, figure out how to turn around and face the tank...and then do it all in reverse
[02:11] <maco> i never thought about the mechanics of that before
[02:11] <Pendulum> if you actually can't walk, you find places that have more than 1 attendant because they're legally required to help you at no extra cost as long as it means the counter isn't abandoned
[02:11] <duanedesign> add in ice :\
[02:11] <JanC> not only dangerous if you are in a wheelchair, but even more so indeed
[02:12] <Pendulum> if I couldn't walk, I actually don't know where in this area I could get petrol as everything is 1-person manning
[02:12] <Pendulum> I'd probably end up having to bring a parent with me
[02:12] <maco> Pendulum: good to know, but if you're really low on gas driving around hunting for a 2-person place seems...problematic
[02:12] <Pendulum> or someone else
[02:12] <Pendulum> maco: you don't let yourself get that low
[02:13] <Pendulum> it's one of those "extra planning" things you have to do
[02:13] <JanC> eh, in general 1-person places will help you too here
[02:13] <Pendulum> not here
[02:14] <Pendulum> a lot of places in the US, tbh, even if they have 2 people will try to get out of it
[02:14] <maco> how do you signal to them that you need assistance, anyway?
[02:14] <duanedesign> i always heard it is better not to let your car get really low on gas. Supposedly that is where all the muck is in your tank (at the bottom). Do not know how true that is
[02:14] <Pendulum> generally there's a sign saying "honk"
[02:14] <maco> duanedesign: yeah...
[02:14] <Pendulum> a few places have buttons you can press
[02:14] <maco> duanedesign: in winter its really bad
[02:14] <maco> (moire likely to freeze)
[02:15] <duanedesign> ahh
[02:15] <Pendulum> I have problems in the winter because for some reason the whole ethanol evaporating thing seems to be worse in the winter
[02:15] <Pendulum> (or at least, that's what my father blames it on)
[02:15] <maco> our fathers need to debate then
[02:15] <Pendulum> so I can park at home and it'll say 1/4 of a tank and then when I turn the car on next it'll be 1/8 tank
[02:15] <maco> because the frozen gas explanation came from my dad
[02:15] <JanC> duanedesign: the older your car the more likely dirt heaps up at the bottom
[02:15] <Pendulum> yeah, my car is old
[02:16] <Pendulum> not as old as my previous car
[02:16] <Pendulum> I think my previous car might have been older than maco ;)
[02:16] <maco> hehe
[02:16] <Pendulum> (got sold when I was in NYC, unfortunately, as it was still running well)
[02:16] <Pendulum> it was an 88 ford taurus wagon. I love it dearly. it was named The BOat
[02:16] <Pendulum> *Boat
[02:16] <JanC> but most cars have a fuel meter that lists 0 when there are still a couple of litres of fuel in it  ;)
[02:16] <Pendulum> *loved
[02:17] <Pendulum> now I have a '96 Cavelier with ridiculously low milage for its age. But it's a lot harder for me to get in and out of
[02:17] <Pendulum> I've named it Ivy :)
[02:17] <Pendulum> (yes, I name things :) )
[02:19] <duanedesign> :)
[02:19] <JanC> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Chevrolet_Cavalier#Third_generation --> this?
[02:21] <jcastro> I had a 2nd generation cavalier!
[02:22] <Pendulum> I don't know what generation
[02:22] <JanC> judging from the engines, it can't have low milage, but maybe that's just a European viewpoint  ;)
[02:23] <Pendulum> it had 74k when I bought it
[02:23] <Pendulum> it's not quite up to 76k
[02:26] <JanC> it has a quite large engine for a car that size...
[02:39] <ScottL> doctormo, ping
[02:44] <doctormo> ScottL: pong
[02:46] <ScottL> doctormo, can we go private for a minute?
[02:51] <doctormo> ScottL: Sure thing
[04:18] <Technoviking> any CC folks here?
[04:58]  * pleia2 hugs Technoviking 
[05:14] <doctormo> Technoviking: problems with CC?
[05:15] <doctormo> Oh you mean Community Council, not Creative Commons
[05:15]  * doctormo goes for a lye down
[07:44]  * popey tickles Technoviking 
[08:04] <kim0> Morning o/
[08:57] <dholbach> good morning
[08:57] <kim0> dholbach: morning
[08:58] <dholbach> hi kim0
[09:08] <huats> morning
[09:22] <dholbach> salut huats mon ami
[09:22] <huats> hello my dear friend dholbach !
[11:38] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[11:38] <Pendulum> hiya :)
[11:41] <duanedesign> heya Pendulum
[11:43] <duanedesign> dholbach: i worked on the outline to start on the packkaging guide screencasts.
[11:43] <dholbach> yoooohooo!
[11:43] <dholbach> duanedesign, how does it work out?
[11:46] <duanedesign> dholbach: seems like  it can be split between two screencasts http://paste.ubuntu.com/568689/
[11:48] <duanedesign>  though I am a little worried about each one being a little long. But I am partial to short screencasts
[15:42] <Technoviking> morning all
[15:44]  * popey cuddles Technoviking 
[15:51] <nigelb> Catching the flu sucks.  Sigh.
[15:56] <dholbach> ok my friends - I'm going to call it a day in a bit - have a great weekend every one
[15:56] <dholbach> nigelb, hope you get better soon again
[15:56] <nigelb> thanks dholbach, g'nite :)
[16:08] <Technoviking> where are irc logs stored at?
[16:11] <nigelb> Technoviking: irclogs.ubuntu.com
[16:12] <Technoviking> nigelb: thanks, duh on me
[16:12] <nigelb> :)
[16:13] <Technoviking> crap #ubuuntuforums is not logged? /faceplam
[16:19]  * czajkowski hugs Technoviking 
[16:24] <popey> hahah
[16:43] <maco> Technoviking: jdong probably has logs
[16:49] <Technoviking> maco: i got logs from irssi, but not very official
[16:51] <maco> ah ok
[16:57] <jcastro> can I get a RT please? I have no followers: http://twitter.com/#!/castrojo/status/38643201854283776
[16:58] <Pendulum> jcastro: I RTed, hopefully others will too :)
[17:01] <jcastro> Technoviking: how's the new hw working out?
[17:20] <Technoviking> jcastro: pretty good, have had a couple of hiccups, probably mysql related
[17:21] <Technoviking> think the whole forums database need to be repaired and optimized
[17:39] <jcastro> Pendulum: are they not using the bot for this?
[17:40] <Pendulum> jcastro: is it not picking questions up?
[17:41] <jcastro> no I guess they were told that I would just paste in the questions
[17:41] <jcastro> *shrug*
[17:41] <Pendulum> oh, that may be because jono doesn't use the bot
[17:41] <paultag> for the classroom?
[17:41] <paultag> if they prefix with QUESTION: it should pick it up, it has a stack queue system
[17:41] <paultag> and you can pop questions off the top
[17:42] <Pendulum> jcastro: the bot's there and it should be working and you should be able to just do it that way
[17:42] <paultag> I guess it's not a stack
[17:42] <paultag> it's one way, so a simple fifo queue
[17:42] <jcastro> it's ok
[17:42] <Pendulum> paultag: I don't think this is a bot problem. it's sounding to me like a people thing
[17:42] <Technoviking> jcastro: you need to dress in meat and live in Hollywood to get more followers:)
[17:45] <jussi> anyone know when jono is about?
[17:46] <Technoviking> jcastro and jono: ping
[17:46] <jussi> Technoviking: fyi, if you get that bounce message, its just in our moderation queue, and we will accept it when we see it. :)
[17:47] <Technoviking> jussi: my work email is kinda bouncy, so wanted to make sure
[17:47] <jussi> Technoviking: ahh fair enough. both got here though :)
[17:48] <jcastro> Technoviking: doing an irc session
[17:49] <jcastro> jono has the day off
[17:50] <jussi> Technoviking: anyway, its simply a request to rt as described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
[17:50] <jussi> hrm, need more info there.
[17:51] <Technoviking> jcastro: will ping you later then
[17:55] <jussi> Technoviking: anyway, if you want the channel logged, just mail rt asking for it to be logged. as long as its in our namespace, thats  fine :)
[18:33] <jcastro> kim0: heh, you can lead it on ustream. :p
[18:33] <kim0> jcastro: I just think it'd be more interactive and fun
[18:34] <jcastro> yeah, there's only so much typing you can do on irc in an hour
[18:35] <kim0> indeed
[18:36] <jcastro> any of you watch Fringe?
[18:42] <Technoviking> jcastro: yeah
[18:42] <pleia2> yep
[18:42] <jcastro> ok so I started a few weeks ago
[18:42] <jcastro> now I am all caught up
[18:42] <jcastro> and like, I can't wait for fridays now
[18:42] <pleia2> hehe
[18:42] <jcastro> plus Spartacus is on too on fridays
[18:43] <Technoviking> Mondays are my favorite, House and Top Gear, also the chance to watch Robot Chicken on Tivo
[18:44] <vish> jcastro: astro!
[18:44] <jcastro> asterisk, come here
[18:44] <jcastro> can you get me that lsd over there asprin?
[18:45] <vish> haha!
[18:45] <jcastro> http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Astrid_Farnsworth#Trivia
[18:46] <jcastro> the internet never lets me down
[19:24] <vish> is monday a holiday in the US?
[19:26] <JFo> yep
[19:26] <JFo> President's Day
[19:26] <vish> JFo: oh! thx
[19:26] <JFo> my pleasure :)
[19:27] <jcastro> JFo: wait
[19:27] <jcastro> we're off on monday?
[19:28] <sense> Next week is school holiday here! :) I think I'll give the Unity API a try, if can get Unity to run stable. Nouveau now works again with Compiz, but it seems to freeze after a while.
[19:28] <vish> sense: hey!!!
[19:28] <sense> A whole week of free!
[19:28] <JFo> jcastro, yep yep :)
[20:29] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/721469
[20:29] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 721469 in eglibc "program startup fails with "Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-deps.c: 622: _dl_map_object_deps: Assertion `nlist > 1' failed!"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:29] <jcastro> if you're on natty and amd64 don't upgrade please
[20:30] <Technoviking> jcastro: got an UDS topic, cimmunity behavior in social networks
[20:31] <jcastro> k, when things are open in lp that would be a nice one
[20:31] <jcastro> Technoviking: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1690530
[20:31] <jcastro> can we put big stars/sticky on this, etc.
[20:32] <jcastro> man, we gotta consolidate the stickies in this subform
[20:32] <jcastro> this is a bit too much right now
[20:36] <Technoviking> yeah, I will think how to clean up, made an announement for your post, expires Tueaday
[20:36] <Technoviking> Think that is long enough?
[20:37] <jcastro> it should be sorted like, in an hour or so
[20:37] <jcastro> they're fixing it as we speak
[20:37] <Technoviking> ok, will expire it tomorrow
[20:37] <jcastro> that should be enough
[20:38] <popey> jcastro: any idea when we'll have an nvidia driver?
[20:38] <popey> I've not been able to use natty for two weeks
[20:38] <Technoviking> ok changed
[20:38] <jcastro> popey: no clue, I'm held back
[20:39] <popey> wish I was
[20:40]  * popey grabs an alpha 1 iso to reinstall 
[20:40] <popey> which is now gone
[20:41] <popey> only alpha 2, which was made after the xorg upgrade
[20:41] <popey> magic
[20:41] <JFo> hmmm
[20:43] <JFo> popey, let me dig around some. I probably have a natty Alpha 1 iso somewhere
[20:43] <popey> ta
[20:43] <JFo> you need i386 or x64?
[20:43] <popey> 64
[20:43] <JFo> k
[20:48] <JFo> popey, no joy :-/
[20:48] <JFo> I looked everywhere
[20:48] <popey> thanks for looking
[20:49] <JFo> if I do come across it today I will put it somewhere you can get to it
[20:50] <JanC> popey: you can probably find daily .iso that was alpha 1?
[20:50] <popey> I can?
[20:50] <popey> they only keep 2 days of dailys
[20:50] <popey> alpha1 was over 2 weeks ago
[20:50] <JanC> hm, apparently also gone
[20:50] <jcastro> popey: wrt. to your last tweet we had to move to xorg 1.10 or we'd be doomed
[20:51] <JanC> they used to keep more dailies...  ☺
[20:51] <popey> could have been better publicsised that "hey, no 3d for you!"
[20:52] <jcastro> well it was on -devel
[20:52] <jcastro> sure, we could always make more noise, but that's a long way from "piss poor planning"
[20:52] <jcastro> just piss poor communication
[20:52] <jcastro> I blame JFo
[20:53] <JFo> me too... errr
[20:53] <popey> you dont think that having a brand new 3d desktop in testing, and the market leading video card manufacturer that actually supports that 3d desktop feature not having a driver might be bad planning?
[20:54] <jcastro> right, it sucks
[20:54] <popey> also, the -devel notice was nowhere near explicit enough
[20:54] <JanC> intel is the market-leading video core manufacturer for desktops  ;)
[20:54] <popey> I remember reading it
[20:54] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-x/2011-January/001042.html
[20:54] <popey> search that page for "nvidia"
[20:55] <JanC> popey: I think there were no AMD closed source drivers either?
[20:55] <jcastro> nope
[20:56] <JanC> maybe they could have waited a week with the new xorg, but OTOH then they wouldn't have a lot less testing of it for the open source drivers...
[20:57] <JanC> s/n't//
[20:58] <JanC> (in the beginning the intel driver was not exactly working very well either)
[20:58] <jcastro> it's pretty much lose/lose
[20:58] <jcastro> but needs to happen
[20:58] <jcastro> I know it sucks
[20:59] <jcastro> I'm trying to get people contributing to unity and I am missing out on everyone with an ATI and nvidia card
[20:59] <popey> I am being offered Debian unstable ISOs :D
[21:00] <JanC> I haven't tried on my AMD yet, but it tends to work fine with the open source drivers...
[21:01] <jcastro> yeah, it's the closed ones that are the suckfest
[21:03] <doctormo> jcastro: Dragging software into the new century, kicking and screaming.
[21:03] <doctormo> suckfest is what it is.
[21:07] <JanC> maybe they should have made an alpha 2a and alpha 2b...   :P
[21:08] <jcastro> it's ok, luckily I have an intel card so I never get screwed.
[21:08] <jcastro> OH WAIT.
[21:10] <JanC> generally I prefer a broken graphics driver over a broken libc though  ;)
[21:10] <JFo> me too :-/
[21:10] <jcastro> yeah
[21:11]  * JFo has a nice, useless netbook now.
[21:11] <jcastro> at least we caught it and are removing it from the archive
[21:11] <jcastro> that could have been much worse say ... over the weekend
[21:11] <jcastro> JFo: hold on
[21:11] <jcastro> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/e/eglibc/
[21:11] <jcastro> ubuntu16 is what you want
[21:17] <popey> keeping the alpha 1 iso around on the server might have been handy.
[21:20] <jcastro> kim0: around?
[21:35] <kim0> jcastro: hey
[21:35] <kim0> whats up
[21:36] <jcastro> know anyone doing VDI on UEC or amazon?
[21:37] <kim0> x2go ?
[21:37] <kim0> you mean just remote desktops or something more complex
[21:37] <jcastro> I think they want to do a ton of windows clients but not pay the huge vmware tax
[21:37] <jcastro> he didn't really give me much info, just a tweet
[21:37] <kim0> who's he :)
[21:37] <jcastro> oh, old army buddy, he does some IT stuff for them
[21:38] <kim0> so he wants to run ubuntu remotely and access it from windows ?
[21:38] <kim0> or the reverse
[21:38] <jcastro> I think he wants to run windows clients on UEC
[21:38] <jcastro> but it doesn't really work like that right?
[21:39] <kim0> you want to run the "client" on the cloud ?
[21:39] <jcastro> right
[21:39] <kim0> and what would be the server
[21:39] <jcastro> his own UEC setup presumably
[21:39] <doctormo> kim0: The server is the cloud, the desktops are vm clients.
[21:39] <jcastro> I mailed him asking him for details, maybe someone from marketing or something can call him
[21:40] <jcastro> I (think) VMWare sells this predone with ESX
[21:40] <kim0> yeah
[21:40] <jcastro> where the computers in the office turn into LTSP-like things but they run VMs
[21:40] <kim0> doctormo: what's vm clients ? like what OS is that
[21:40] <jcastro> I think they have their own shim thing based on rhel
[21:41] <jcastro> kim0: anyway, to more important things, XBMC!
[21:41] <kim0> there's ehum .. redhat spice VDI stuff
[21:41] <doctormo> kim0: Think of it as a licensing trick, they want to use Windows, but without paying for it.
[21:41] <jcastro> well no
[21:41] <jcastro> they still pay for the license
[21:41] <kim0> well
[21:41] <kim0> I know of a trick
[21:41] <kim0> you can take a WinXP box
[21:41] <kim0> and apply a dll patch
[21:41] <jcastro> the benefit is they only have one desktop image everyone can run
[21:41] <kim0> and magically launch 100 remote desktops
[21:42] <kim0> although by design it shouldn't be able to do that
[21:42] <kim0> whether or not that's legal is .. ehum a different story
[21:42] <kim0> I'm not sure actually .. not saying it isnt
[21:42] <jcastro> you can't
[21:42] <jcastro> I tried that at my last job. :)
[21:42] <kim0> legally or technically
[21:42] <jcastro> both
[21:42] <kim0> nah .. I am doing it
[21:42] <kim0> ehum
[21:42] <jcastro> 100?
[21:43] <kim0> well 20
[21:43] <jcastro> you don't hit some client limit thing?
[21:43] <kim0> just for testing .. may I add
[21:44] <jcastro> though, the ESX/VDI thing only makes sense with tons of clients
[21:44] <kim0> VDI doesn't really help save any licensing AFAICT
[21:44] <kim0> it's useful to centralize desktops .. backups .. etc
[21:44] <kim0> you still pay MS and VMware
[21:45] <jcastro> yeah I am pretty sure once you add up all the ESX bits ...
[21:45] <kim0> no matter what terminal server software you use
[21:46] <kim0> you still have to pay MS afaik
[21:46] <kim0> boy I hate that MS world :)
[21:47] <kim0> like to pretend they just don't exist hehe
[21:47] <jcastro> the best is when you buy their own central thing
[21:47] <jcastro> they ding you TWICE
[21:48] <jcastro> you need a normal license, and a CAL
[21:48] <kim0> yes I remember once hearing that $h1t
[21:48] <maco> obfuscated swearing is still swearing
[21:48] <kim0> I was standing there refusing to believe this is actually how it works
[21:49] <kim0> jcastro: Might wanna check out http://www.2x.com/terminalserver/
[21:49] <jcastro> hah you got maco'ed
[21:49] <kim0> no idea if that saves on anything
[21:49]  * kim0 weeps to maco .. please forgive me :)
[21:51] <jcastro> maco: did you watch Modern Family yet? It was on on Wednesday
[21:52] <maco> jcastro: i last owned a tv in 2008
[21:52] <maco> i will be getting broadband tomorrow
[21:52] <jcastro> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm33590528/nm1736769
[21:52]  * doctormo cheers for broadband
[21:52] <kim0> maco: how broad is that
[21:53] <doctormo> I've been watching Andrew Mar's History of Modern Britian. Fantastic stuff.
[21:55] <JanC> you need to pay Microsoft a license for every concurrent user, but they won't sell you any extra licenses for the same WinXP box, so...
[21:56] <JanC> the guy who sells Ubuntu multiseats here in Belgium asked Microsoft about it because another company started selling WinXP multiseats without extra licenses...   :P
[21:57] <kim0> JanC: so basically no way to save money with MS right ? any way you still pay per concurrent user
[22:00] <JanC> kim0: and not only for Windows, you also have to pay a license per user for most of the software you use on it...   ;)
[22:00] <kim0> horrible mess
[22:01] <kim0> A MS guy once told me a simple rule .. if you touch it, you pay for it :)
[22:03] <JanC> http://www.multiseatcomputer.be/mslicense.pdf --> "Licensing Windows Client and Server Operating Systems in Multiuser Scenarios"
[22:04] <doctormo> kim0: The other simple rule: "If Microsoft had anything to do with it, don't touch it"
[22:04] <kim0> yeah, that's what all of us try to do I guess :)
[22:04] <kim0> and as much as I don't like to admit it .. Apple is mostly worse
[22:05] <JanC> depends for what, their server stuff is open source mostly
[22:05] <doctormo> kim0: "A frightful specter is haunting the land, it is the specter of Applism" :-P
[22:05] <kim0> hehe
[22:06] <JanC> OTOH, working at Apple can't be fun
[22:06] <kim0> JanC: that's the stuff they haven't written themselves ;)
[22:06] <JanC> kim0: they wrote some of it themselves (e.g. calendar server)
[22:06] <JanC> and teh yown CUPS of course
[22:07] <kim0> they bought it yeah
[22:07] <kim0> I can't think of something they "chose" to open source, rather than being forced to
[22:08] <JanC> just heard in the #fosdem channel the only main talk that won't have a video on-line is from an Apple employee, speaker videos are forbidden for all Apple employees (except Steve Jobs, I guess)
[22:08] <kim0> OMG!!
[22:08] <doctormo> kim0: Lets be honest, free and open source isn't something elites really like.
[22:08] <kim0> Google likes
[22:08] <kim0> and Ubuntu is elite as well :P
[22:09] <doctormo> kim0: They're more friendly, but I account that to their lack of elitism. :-P
[22:09] <JanC> kim0: calendarserver was something they wrote themselves I think?
[22:09] <kim0> not sure :/ who uses that
[22:09] <JanC> it's in the Ubuntu repos  ;)
[22:09] <doctormo> Ubuntu is weird, we have stuff going on which isn't good, but at the same time it's still out best shot at getting FOSS out there.
[22:09] <doctormo> our*
[22:10] <JanC> kim0: another thing is Darwin Streaming Server
[22:11] <kim0> is that not based on any open sourcish stuff
[22:13] <JanC> it's under the Apple Public Source License (and is apparently used by Akamai & Youtube)
[22:13] <kim0> youtube! that's surprising
[22:15] <JanC> wikipedia says they use it for streaming to mobile phones
[22:16] <kim0> yeah .. still would hope Apple became more open though .. they have a long way to go
[22:16] <kim0> JanC: what was the Apple talk about
[22:17] <JanC> llvm + clang
[22:18] <kim0> hmm that would have been cool
[22:18] <kim0> to watch that is
[22:20] <JanC> and a braindead corporate policy from Apple, forbiding promotion of one of their products to potential users & collaboraters...  :P
[22:20] <kim0> haha indeed :)
[22:23] <doctormo> JanC: Then that's good for us, isn't it?
[22:23] <JanC> doctormo: we use/need llvm too!
[22:24] <JanC> including to make graphics drivers better  ☺
[22:25] <doctormo> ⚔⚔ Yes, but do we need to see this to that?
[22:25] <popey> doctormo: you talking about art team stuff?
[22:25] <JanC> well, somebody seeing it could become a contributor, so who knows?
[22:26] <doctormo> popey: no, not today, not well enough
[22:26] <popey> oh ok, it was just the "we have stuff going on which isn't good"
[22:26] <popey> read into it
[22:26] <popey> wrongly