[05:49] <baphometos> hey there
[05:50] <baphometos> im a maverick user and cant sync contacts on my pc
[05:51] <jdobrien> baphometos, are you using empathy?
[05:51] <baphometos> only files, neither contacts, nor bookmars nor history
[05:52] <jdobrien> baphometos, so I'm not quite following.
[05:52] <baphometos> empathy is installed but im not usin it
[05:52] <baphometos> second, screenshottin it
[05:52] <jdobrien> baphometos, so where are you expecting to see the contacts sync?
[05:53] <jdobrien> baphometos, sorry...I didn't mean empathy
[05:53] <baphometos> system -> preferences -> ubuntu one
[05:53] <jdobrien> baphometos, I meant evolution
[05:54] <jdobrien> one moment
[05:54] <baphometos> http://www.abload.de/img/bildschirmfotocqyr.gif
[05:54] <jdobrien> ahh
[05:54] <jdobrien> the options are greyed out
[05:54] <jdobrien> ok
[05:55] <baphometos> cant sync @ evolution
[05:55] <baphometos> tested it
[05:55] <baphometos> couchdb is intalled
[05:56] <baphometos> so ubuntu one is pretty cool but i do miss this feature
[05:56] <jdobrien> baphometos, ubuntu one uses desktopcouch, is that installed
[05:56] <jdobrien> ?
[05:58] <baphometos> second
[05:58] <baphometos> yes it is
[05:58] <jdobrien> ok..
[05:58] <jdobrien> I didn't have it installed, so let me do it real quick so i can see what you see
[05:59] <baphometos> wanna teamview?
[05:59] <jdobrien> I'm running a nightly version of Ubuntu One (bleeding edge) so it looks different
[06:00] <jdobrien> they got rid of those checkbloxes.. :)
[06:00] <baphometos> i do see this http://www.abload.de/img/bildschirmfotocqyr.gif
[06:00] <baphometos> ^^
[06:00] <baphometos> hm
[06:01] <baphometos> what could i do to help ya
[06:01] <jdobrien> baphometos, I believe those are disabled because you're missing a package
[06:02] <jdobrien> baphometos, under Applications --> Internet do you have "CouchDB Pairing Tool"
[06:03] <baphometos> second
[06:03] <baphometos> no
[06:03] <baphometos> :/
[06:03] <baphometos> so thats the point of failure
[06:04] <baphometos> what could i do to solve it?
[06:04] <jdobrien> ok so that's easy apt-get install desktopcouch-tools
[06:06] <baphometos> :) so now i got the couchdb-pairing-tool in application->internet... but still the checkboxes are greyed out :/ should i delete the configfiles and try again?
[06:07] <jdobrien> did you run the pairing tool?
[06:07] <baphometos> yes i tried but nothing happened
[06:08] <jdobrien> hmm...strange
[06:08] <baphometos> @shell: didnt find "application"? in german its "Befehl nicht gefunden"
[06:09] <baphometos> but its installed
[06:10] <baphometos> hmm.... this is pretty strange
[06:11] <baphometos> didnt have that before... installed an application and cant find that afterwards
[06:12] <jdobrien> very strange indeed
[06:13] <baphometos> doesnt ubuntu one sync files also usin couchdb?
[06:14] <jdobrien> baphometos, yes
[06:14] <baphometos> hm
[06:14] <jdobrien> oh wait
[06:14] <jdobrien> not files
[06:14] <jdobrien> sorry
[06:14] <jdobrien> files is a different beast
[06:14] <baphometos> ah ok
[06:14] <baphometos> so thats because this works
[06:14] <jdobrien> so you install desktopcouch-tools right?
[06:15] <baphometos> yes
[06:15] <jdobrien> And you don't have Applications > Internet > Couchdb Pairing Tool?
[06:15] <baphometos> yes
[06:16] <jdobrien> when you run it, is there anything under "You are currently paired with these hoses"
[06:16] <baphometos> but it doesnt open, in shell it says "application not found"
[06:16] <jdobrien> s/hoses/hosts
[06:16] <jdobrien> oh
[06:16] <jdobrien> one sec
[06:16] <jdobrien> :)
[06:18] <jdobrien> baphometos, how did you install ubuntu one? was this a fresh install of maverick, an upgrade?
[06:20] <baphometos> an upgrade
[06:20] <baphometos> of 10.04
[06:21] <jdobrien> k
[06:22] <jdobrien> can you open Evolution and clieck on the Contacts button and then Personal address book
[06:22] <baphometos> second
[06:22] <jdobrien> baphometos, I would like to know if it sees Ubuntu One as an option
[06:23] <baphometos> looks like we're on the right way
[06:23] <baphometos> cuz in evolution there's ubuntu one as an option now
[06:24] <jdobrien> try this tutorial. it may be that the silly control panel is not working properly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Contacts
[06:25] <baphometos> thank you for first, i'll try this... thank you very very much :))
[06:25] <jdobrien> baphometos, please let us know if it works. I need to get to bed now... 1:30 am here
[06:28] <jdobrien> baphometos, there's also some debugging tips here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Bugs
[06:31] <baphometos> hmm... doesn't work... so i'll try more... it's 7:30 am here... gn8 ;)
[06:32] <jdobrien> apt-cache policy evolution-couchdb
[06:32] <jdobrien> make sure it's installed
[06:34] <baphometos> hmm... it only says "server not reachable" and "permission denied"
[06:34] <baphometos> "apt-cache policy evolution-couchdb" it is
[06:34] <baphometos> hmm... it only says "server not reachable" and "permission denied"  <<<<------ evolution
[06:34] <jdobrien> very strange
[06:35] <jdobrien>  apt-cache policy evolution-couchdb
[06:35] <jdobrien> evolution-couchdb:
[06:35] <jdobrien>   Installed: 0.5.1+r184~maverick1
[06:35] <jdobrien>   Candidate: 0.5.1+r184~maverick1
[06:35] <baphometos> lenny@linuxdose:~$ sudo apt-cache policy evolution-couchdb
[06:35] <baphometos> evolution-couchdb:
[06:35] <baphometos>   Installiert: 0.5.0-0ubuntu1
[06:35] <baphometos>   Kandidat:    0.5.0-0ubuntu1
[06:35] <baphometos>   Versionstabelle:
[06:35] <baphometos>  *** 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 0
[06:35] <baphometos>         500 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
[06:35] <baphometos>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[06:35] <jdobrien> k
[06:35] <jdobrien> baphometos, I'm afraid I've reached the end of my ability to diagnose this problem
[06:36] <jdobrien> baphometos, in a few hours, rye may be able to help you. he's the master
[06:36] <baphometos> ^^ kk..... don't worry.... have a good sleep
[06:36]  * jdobrien goes to bed
[06:36] <baphometos> and thank you ;)
[07:03] <zyga> good morning
[07:04] <zyga> quick question, If I wanted to do some extra QA for nightly packages what is the best way to find the delta
[07:04] <zyga> I know there are no changelogs for nightlies
[09:48] <JamesTait> Joyeux Vendredi, mes amis!
[10:29] <karni> zyga: ping
[10:29] <zyga> karni, hi
[11:38] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[11:43] <rye> duanedesign, morning!
[11:55] <duanedesign> rye: have you done much in C ?
[11:56] <rye> duanedesign, well, i can break stuff in C, and/or write patches for ubuntuone nautilus emblems
[11:59] <karni> hi duanedesign !
[11:59] <karni> what's good rye :)
[12:00] <duanedesign> hello karni
[12:00] <karni> I just realized UDS is in May, not in March. You guys won't believe how happy I am xD
[12:00] <duanedesign> u1sdtool -s does not exist in Lucid version of U1?
[12:00] <rye> duanedesign, let me check..
[12:02] <rye> duanedesign, it does exist in lucid
[12:02] <duanedesign> aha
[12:03] <duanedesign> i must be thinking oof karmic
[12:19] <Christoffer> rye just wanted to say thank you for the tomboy-sync-validator.py script ...works like a charm
[12:20] <rye> Christoffer, thank you, at least now i have some quick way to test the basic server-to-client functionality w/o coming up with hacks to tomboy code.
[12:22] <Christoffer> =)
[12:24] <rye> Christoffer, were there only datetime-related issues or XML format too?
[12:26] <Christoffer> I had only DateTime as far as I know
[12:27] <Christoffer> just edited the one single note and I was able to sync again
[12:32] <Christoffer> I'll be away from now on if there is anything else ...I'll be back later or tomorrow
[12:45] <ralsina> good morning ubuntuone
[12:50] <karni> hi ralsina
[12:50] <ralsina> hola karni
[12:50] <karni> ralsina: comes tas (I can't spell it :D)
[12:50] <karni> ralsina: come estas?
[12:51] <ralsina> karni: close!
[12:51]  * karni fails miserably. com'estas?
[12:51] <ralsina> "come estas" means "eat these" but really close :-)
[12:51] <karni> hahahahahha
[12:51] <karni> eat these! you manager! ;D
[12:51] <ralsina> "cómo estás" is perfect argentinian :-)
[12:52] <karni> ralsina: ack! ^ ^
[12:52] <ralsina> A+ for effort :-D
[12:52] <karni> \o/
[13:00] <duanedesign> 'lo ralsina
[13:02] <ralsina> hola duanedesign
[13:13] <rye> duanedesign, so, we have a script called tomboy-sync-validator.py that should show what exactly tomboy dies on during the sync. After a year of intermittent issues a script of 215 lines got born (and it should be less than that since i did not exclude options processing)
[13:19] <duanedesign> rye: did you put that in your bzr branch with the other U1 scripts
[13:19] <rye> duanedesign, yes!
[13:21] <rye> duanedesign, after my server hdd crash everything i do goes to bzr and gets pushed to launchpad. Anything that is not really going to benefit from versions is going to ubuntuone
[13:21] <rye> duanedesign, and by the way, facundobatista found the reason behind local conflicts when only one machine is editing the files
[13:25] <duanedesign> rye: oh cool
[13:25] <rye> duanedesign, let me forward that to you..
[13:41] <ralsina> rye: I rdiff-backup my whole "Projects" folder to my VPS
[13:43] <rye> ralsina, use Ubuntu One!
[13:44] <ralsina> rye: rdiff-backup has my history for the last 3 months
[13:44] <ralsina> and I had it working before u1 :-)
[13:44] <rye> ralsina, all my pics, videos and documents are on ubuntuone
[13:44] <rye> ralsina, dogfooding!
[13:44] <ralsina> rye: I am trying but I estimate 2 months upload time
[13:45] <ralsina> I need to take it all physically to some place with very fast uploads first
[13:45] <ralsina> or make u1 work on my VPS but it requires X (and it's not ubunu) so...
[13:45] <rye> ralsina, i re-started using tomboy now having found the note that caused the issue... Because it's just silly that i am not using ubuntuone parts... for funambol it is a bit different.. and i am still waiting for evolution plugin to start working
[13:45] <rye> ralsina, no, it does not require X
[13:45] <rye> ralsina, not ubuntu???
[13:46] <ralsina> rye: I had it before I worked at canonical! :-(
[13:46] <rye> ralsina, well, it did not absolutely require X last time i checked
[13:46] <ralsina> rye: there's even a bug for it ;-)
[13:47] <ralsina> You can't even run u1sdtool without X
[13:47] <rye> ralsina, i am just very happy being able to recover my notes again in a usual way
[13:47] <ralsina> hahaha
[13:47] <popey> i think you'll find u1 needs gnome-keyring
[13:47] <popey> doesnt it?
[13:47] <rye> ralsina, you can't use it w/o dbus, but in case sd is on the same bus as u1sdtool it will all work. I used to run this config
[13:48] <rye> popey, hm, i remember 1) i patched this locally, 2) no, no longer - it queries com.ubuntu.sso which queries whatever it can query... ah, it all changed now
[13:48] <ralsina> rye: if I ssh into my ubuntu VM u1sdtool fails with a "Can't open display" error
[13:48] <rye> need to re-hack again
[13:48] <popey> ooo
[13:48] <rye> ralsina, yep, because you need a special dbus magic
[13:48] <popey> so i can install it on my LTS server?
[13:48] <ralsina> rye: well, that's the bug, it shouldn't require magic
[13:48] <rye> popey, well, again, i need to re-check
[13:49] <ralsina> rye: sso aska thefreedesktop standard interface for secrets but I don't recall any non-gnome-keyring provider?
[13:49] <rye> ralsina, u1sdtool requires dbus to be running and the same dbus needs to be used by the ubuntuone-syncdaemon process. Since you are sshing into the VM your env does not point to any dbus session
[13:50] <rye> popey, for LTS we might need to find whether nightlies work since sso started being used from maverick onwards only
[13:51] <ralsina> rye: and that's when u1sdtool should take care of that
[13:51] <ralsina> Can we run multiple syncdaemons and not break stuff?
[13:52] <nessita> ralsina: nopes within the same user home
[13:52] <rye> ralsina, for one user - no, metadata storage
[13:52] <ralsina> ok
[13:53] <nessita> stand up in 7'!
[13:53] <ralsina> ack
[13:54] <ralsina> So, u1sdtool should find the current running syncdaemon (if there is one) and join its dbus (if possible), or start everything up (after all, it has a "start syncdaemon" option)
[13:55] <ralsina> At least that's what I would aim for if I wanted to make it "just work", specially for headless systems
[14:00] <nessita> me
[14:00] <thisfred> too early
[14:00] <nessita> (11:00:36 AM) nessita: me
[14:00] <nessita> thisfred: 36 second late
[14:00] <nessita> ;-)
[14:01] <dobey> ralsina: u1sdtool works like that already
[14:01] <thisfred> my clock must be off
[14:01] <mandel> me
[14:01] <thisfred> or does AR have summertime of +1:01? :)
[14:01] <nessita> stand up crowd!
[14:01] <thisfred> me
[14:01] <ralsina> me
[14:01] <dobey> me
[14:01] <ralsina> dobey: not the "join the other dbus session part". I tested it ;-)
[14:01] <nessita> alecu?
[14:01] <alecu> me
[14:01] <dobey> ralsina: DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=other_address u1sdtool foo
[14:02] <nessita> DONE: more APIs wrapping work. Got some issues trying to debug a stupid OAuth weirdness when dealing with query string. Weekly call. A quick control panel branch to have a new nightlies built.
[14:02] <nessita> TODO: file storage API wrapper. CoP call.
[14:02] <nessita> BLOCKED: nopes
[14:02] <nessita> NEXT: mandel
[14:02] <ralsina> dobey: you missed the part about it "just working". That's not "just working"
[14:02] <mandel> DONE: bug 721124, bug 721167, bug 721171, 721174 and bug 720942
[14:02] <mandel> TODO: propose merges, work on ipc lcient
[14:02] <mandel> BLOCKED: no
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 721124 in ubuntuone-client "Code coverage for the Status dbus class regarding signals is low (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721124
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 721167 in ubuntuone-client "Code coverage of the Events dbus class regarding signals is low (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721167
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 721171 in ubuntuone-client "Code coverage of the SycnDaemon dbus class regarding signals is low (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721171
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 721174 in ubuntuone-client "Code coverage of the Shares dbus class regarding signals is low (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721174
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720942 in ubuntuone-client "Error in dbus_iface when a StatusChange signal is done (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 14)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720942
[14:02] <mandel> thisfred: please
[14:03] <thisfred> DONE: bug #719042 and bug #719039
[14:03] <thisfred> TODO: finish and package API, some u1client UI wrap up, bug #720917 bug #720928
[14:03] <thisfred> BLOCKED: still no unity
[14:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 719042 in ubuntuone-couch "Add tests and refactor out code to a library (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719042
[14:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 719039 in ubuntuone-couch "Fix ubuntuone-couch-query to work with current SSO code (affects: 1) (heat: 5)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719039
[14:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720917 in ubuntuone-couch "the request method returns very different things (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720917
[14:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720928 in ubuntuone-couch "Use ubuntuone.platform.linux.credentials module instead of ubuntu_sso (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720928
[14:03] <thisfred> NEXT: ralsina!
[14:03] <ralsina> DONE: many reviews, weekly call.
[14:03] <ralsina> TODO: reviews, management stuff, sprint planning, triage another 5 tons of bugs, some coding (my days are all alike)
[14:03] <ralsina> BLOCKED: no
[14:03] <ralsina> dobey?
[14:03] <dobey> λ DONE: SRU upload to maverick-proposed
[14:03] <dobey> λ TODO: banshee mustic store fixes, disable some nightlies on lucid
[14:03] <dobey> λ BLCK: on-call for jury duty
[14:03] <dobey> alecu
[14:04] <alecu> DONE: Digged a bit futher into SSO oauth with DroidCouch, got latest libunity examples to run on my setup
[14:04] <alecu> TODO: either go forward with DroidCouch or work on libunity if thisfred's nvidia nightmare keeps going on
[14:04] <alecu> BLOCKED: no
[14:04] <alecu> LOVE: compiz grid plugin enabled by default in Unity: ctrl-alt-numpad[0-9]
[14:04] <alecu> HATE: single alt-tab does not return to the *latest* window
[14:04] <nessita> comments?
[14:04] <dobey> ralsina: i'm not sure what you maen by "just work" there
[14:05] <ralsina> dobey: "just work" means, "do what u1sdtool --help says and get the right results"
[14:05] <alecu> ralsina, I have libunity working, so I will be able to do the missing bits... should I pause the DroidCouch api work?
[14:05] <ralsina> alecu: oh, good question
[14:06] <ralsina> alecu: I don't want to piss aquarius but I would say yes
[14:06] <dobey> ralsina: it does
[14:06] <dobey> ralsina: it just happens that it also requires the underlying systems to also "just work"
[14:06] <ralsina> dobey: let's go over that in 5'
[14:06] <alecu> ralsina, I believe I should pause it, because the API work does not need to go into feature freeze.
[14:06] <ralsina> alecu: good point. Go ahead, I'll tell aquarius
[14:06] <aquarius> alecu, correct. So, yes. Reluctantly. :)
[14:07] <ralsina> oh, right, the magic of IRC ;-)
[14:07] <ralsina> It's like having our team meetings screaming in a hallway :-D
[14:07]  * aquarius puts a tick next to ralsina's name in the "owes me a favour" book :P
[14:07] <ralsina> aquarius: it's not for me, it's for Canonical! ;-)
[14:08]  * aquarius laughs. Yeah, it makes sense; you have to get in before DD.
[14:08] <aquarius> er, FF
[14:08] <nessita> Foxy fox?
[14:08] <alecu> Feature Freezer?
[14:08] <dobey> formidable foe
[14:08] <thisfred> nessita: did you see my comment on bug #720928 ?
[14:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720928 in ubuntuone-couch "Use ubuntuone.platform.linux.credentials module instead of ubuntu_sso (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720928
[14:09] <dobey> oh right, i need to fix that
[14:09] <nessita> thisfred: yes I did. I was planning on answer but my mood is not good today, so I think is best for all if I reply next Monday, if you allor
[14:09] <nessita> allow*
[14:10] <nessita> I've been dealing with stupid people from our cell phone company and I'm very angry
[14:10] <dobey> you know, ubuntuone-couch is a hilariously awful name :)
[14:10] <thisfred> sure, no hurry. I may have misread the credentials code as well, but we'll talk next week :)
[14:11] <nessita> thisfred: thanks! (you mostly read it correctly, quick note is that it does not need any twisted machinery, just a main loop. See the bottom of this code: https://pastebin.canonical.com/43588/)
[14:11] <thisfred> thx!
[14:12] <ralsina> comments or eom?
[14:12] <dobey> moe
[14:12]  * ralsina is finishing the darn sprint proposal between typing here
[14:12] <mandel> ralsina: in case you forgot of what irc is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
[14:12] <nessita> eom!
[14:14] <ralsina> mandel: that's several kinds of awesome
[14:15] <mandel> ralsina: hehe I find it painful to watch, but we are hacker :P
[14:15] <dobey> thisfred: i moved trunk ownership for u1-couch. you can remove/hide your old trunk now, and work off the proper one
[14:16] <thisfred> dobey: thx, you rock!
[14:16] <dobey> mandel: luckily i speek l33t
[14:17] <mandel> hahaha
[14:17] <thisfred> an anicent dialect of it anyway. It's 1337 now, get with the times, gramps
[14:21] <dobey> http://wuism.net/images/megatokyo/speak1337.gif
[14:21] <mattgriffin> nessita: ping
[14:21] <mandel> since when 7 looks like a t…I'm getting old
[14:21] <nessita> mattgriffin: pong
[14:21] <ralsina> dobey: about u1sdtool. Since there can only be one syncdaemon running, u1sdtool should be able to know what dbus session it should join. It's the one where syncdaemon is. Requiring the user to find out the session and tell it is not optimal.
[14:22] <mattgriffin> nessita: should #720981 be Ubuntu One Control Panel?
[14:22] <dobey> ralsina: how would it know that if there's no dbus?
[14:22] <nessita> bug 720981
[14:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720981 in ubuntuone-client "Natty: Shows syncing if not connect to U1 servers (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720981
[14:22] <ralsina> dobey: old problem. Out of band communication.
[14:23] <nessita> mattgriffin: nopes, is correct in that project, Not sure how we can deal whit that, though, since network manager reports a working connection in that case
[14:23] <ralsina> dobey: if syncdaemon is running, it should put its dbus session id in an easily accessible place
[14:23] <nessita> alecu, thisfred: any thoughts on bug 720981?
[14:23] <thisfred> let me look
[14:23] <mattgriffin> nessita: ok.
[14:23] <dobey> ralsina: i don't think so
[14:24] <thisfred> nessita: if that's true it's definitely wrong. I don't know how the nautilus emblems work at all though
[14:25] <rye> thisfred, i know what's wrong (or right) with them?
[14:25] <nessita> thisfred: well, I was looking for your input regarding the bubbles
[14:25] <mattgriffin> nessita: is there any kind of a state or messaging in the control panel if our servers are offline? like during maintenance?
[14:25] <nessita> nautilus plugin is... tierra de nadie we say in spanish
[14:25] <nessita> mattgriffin: none
[14:26] <nessita> mattgriffin: ralsina was planning on having an URL to ping to query status
[14:26] <dobey> thisfred: the problem is that syncdaemon probably keeps trying to reconnect
[14:26] <thisfred> nessita: I assume the same underlying syncdaemon state causes both the bubbles and the emblems to lie
[14:26] <mattgriffin> nessita: ok
[14:26] <ralsina> mattgriffin nessita: not my plan, the servers team was planning it. I planned to use it ;-)
[14:26] <rye> ralsina, do not forget muffinresearch has created a status app that has not been deployed yet
[14:26] <rye> btw why not?
[14:26] <mattgriffin> ralsina: :)
[14:27] <ralsina> rye: exactly. Once it's up there we can use it.
[14:27] <rye> ralsina, sweet,
[14:27]  * rye sits waiting for the status app
[14:27] <dobey> man, why did i stop reading megatokyo
[14:27] <ralsina> thisfred: yes, we all rely on syncdaemon telling us the truth
[14:27] <ralsina> dobey: WHY do you not think so?
[14:28] <nessita> thisfred: honestly, I'm not sure :-/
[14:28] <dobey> ralsina: if you think sshing in to a machine should talk to services already running on that machine, then the right way to fix it is to fix the way dbus works, not to try and implement nasty workarounds
[14:29] <thisfred> ralsina: well, it *could* also be that we've misinterpreted a state/state change
[14:29] <nessita> thisfred: why would the bubbles keep coming up? meaning, what would syncdaemon be saying to make bubbles pop up?
[14:29] <ralsina> dobey: since I am sshing as a user, and syncdaemon can only run once as each user, what else could I mean when I run u1sdtool except "talk to my running syncdaemon"?
[14:30] <ralsina> dobey: also, think cron or at, not ssh, if you want.
[14:30] <thisfred> nessita: I have no idea,  a good question to ask on the bug is what those bubbles say (I'll do that) possibly it's the ones saying 'file sync completed' which have been known to show up at inappropriate times
[14:30] <dobey> ralsina: well, it could talk to the one running on the machine you're sshing from
[14:31] <ralsina> dobey: why would I run that inside a ssh session instead of in my shell?
[14:31] <dobey> ralsina: i don't think we should waste our time trying to support all of these cases
[14:31] <ralsina> dobey: did I say we should do it? I only said it's the correct behaviour.
[14:32] <dobey> ralsina: i don't know, why does gedit not open a new tab on the remote machine when you run it?
[14:32] <dobey> ralsina: i don't think it is the correct behavior
[14:32] <ralsina> dobey: gedit requires X, u1sdtool is not supposed to.
[14:32] <ralsina> dobey: well, I do think it is.
[14:32] <rye> ralsina, i think that u1sdtool and basically no other dbus-aware application should implement workarounds to start the session not in a supported environment
[14:33] <alecu> thisfred, nessita: those bubbles appear when file synchronization is in progress, every 10 minutes to show the progress.
[14:33] <nessita> thisfred: right, mattgriffin reported the bug so you can bug him ;-)
[14:33] <ralsina> rye: I am not sure I follow that right :-)
[14:33] <alecu> and it's a bug that they keep appearing when there's no connection.
[14:33] <nessita> alecu: but what happens if there is no internet connection?
[14:33] <thisfred> nessita: will do
[14:33] <nessita> ah
[14:33] <nessita> alecu: is the bug I reported?
[14:33] <alecu> bug #716457
[14:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716457 in ubuntuone-client "'N files are uploading' is missleading when syncdaemon is disconnected (affects: 1) (heat: 76)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716457
[14:34] <rye> ralsina, X session is started with DBUS variables set and dbus-session running. Therefore all applications in that session know their dbus socket location.
[14:34] <ralsina> rye: yes
[14:34] <alecu> nessita, right. it's your bug.
[14:35] <nessita> alecu: ok, I didn't realize it was the same issue
[14:35] <rye> ralsina, the correct way to deal with it when no X is running is to start dbus in background if it is not yet started on shell login, store that data and initialize variables upon subsequent reconnects to the server
[14:35] <ralsina> rye: but that doesn't work for syncdaemon because it can't run twice
[14:35] <nessita> thisfred: well, you can leave the original bug to be concerned with the nautilus plugin (edit the description), and link the latter bug for references
[14:35] <rye> ralsina, why would I want to run syncdaemon twice?
[14:36] <dobey> ralsina: nor can firefox
[14:36] <ralsina> rye: suppose you have a session running, and want to try something remotely using u1sdtool
[14:36] <ralsina> dobey: firefox is not a CLI tool as u1sdtool is supposed to be
[14:36] <ralsina> dobey: stop using the same argument changing the app ;-)
[14:36] <dobey> ralsina: ubuntuone requires X, wehther or not one tiny part of it does not
[14:36] <alecu> nessita, who should I assign the nautilus bug to?
[14:37] <nessita> alecu: ...
[14:37] <thisfred> hmm, a new files in Ubuntu One isn't uploading at all now for me
[14:37] <alecu> the desktop+ team?
[14:37] <nessita> :-)
[14:37] <ralsina> dobey: you missed the earlier part of the argument where I said "ubuntuone requires X" and rye told me it doesn't?
[14:37] <nessita> alecu: yes
[14:37] <rye> dobey, o_O what for?
[14:37] <dobey> rye: gnome-keyring
[14:37] <dobey> rye: bubble notifications
[14:37] <ralsina> dobey: could be replaced once someone implements the secrets API without X
[14:37] <dobey> rye: control panel
[14:37] <rye> dobey, not if sso.ubuntu.com is provided via some other way
[14:37] <thisfred> the notifications are a soft dependency
[14:38] <dobey> ralsina: which nobody is doing or going to do
[14:38] <nessita> dobey: u1 client does not require gnome-keyring, requires ussoc, which does not require gnome-keyring
[14:38] <rye> dobey, control panel is not controlled by u1sdtool, and can be replaced
[14:38] <dobey> sigh
[14:38] <dobey> nevermind
[14:38] <ralsina> dobey: you can use u1 without ever launching the control panel
[14:38] <dobey> nobody listens to me any more anyway
[14:38] <ralsina> dobey: not agreing with you is not the same as not listening
[14:39] <rye> dobey, i just want to say that u1sdtool should not find out where syncdaemon is running and 2 it is possible to run it w/o X server.
[14:39] <rye> nessita, are notification bubbles an integral part of syncdaemon now?
[14:39] <ralsina> Besides, as I told you, I was saying u1 requires X, rye was saying the opposite. The stuff about u1sdtool was about how without X u1sdtool doesn't really work by default without magic incantations.
[14:40] <rye> ralsina, with X u1sdtool will also not work if dbus-session is not initialized
[14:40] <alecu> rye, they run inside syncdaemon, and are popped up thru dbus.
[14:40] <ralsina> rye: ok
[14:40] <dobey> ubuntuone requires X right now.
[14:40] <alecu> rye, and they are completely optional
[14:40] <dobey> whether someone says "well no not really" or not is irrelevant to that fact
[14:41] <alecu> well, actually...
[14:41] <espen77> i can open several instances of the u1-control panel, feature or bug?
[14:42] <dobey> neither ?
[14:42] <alecu> espen77, looks like a bug to me
[14:42] <thisfred> I think it's intentional, but yeah, I'd like to see it focus the panel if it's already there
[14:43] <thisfred> that way the --switch_to parameter makes a lot more sense
[14:43] <espen77> also have 2x u1 lines (one with icon and one without in the mesaging tab of notification area (natty)
[14:43] <dobey> thisfred: does it really use an underscore?
[14:44] <espen77> i'll file a bug on it then
[14:44] <thisfred> dobey: nope sorry, my mistake
[14:44] <rye> espen77, indicator? argh. I definitely need to fix it
[14:44] <rye> espen77, ah, wait, i have that too
[14:44] <rye> What is responsible for adding ubuntuone entries to the messaging menu?
[14:44] <thisfred> yeah me too. I think something went wonky with the linking of the .desktop file
[14:45] <thisfred> rye, the package adds a symlink to /usr/share/indicators or something like that
[14:45] <espen77> rye, that is where you setup u1 in natty it seems, or atleast one way to do it
[14:46] <thisfred> rye: a while back, the entry disappeared, and we must have overfixed that ;)
[14:46] <dobey> rye: combination of u1cp and syncdaemon
[14:46] <rye> heh
[14:46] <dobey> thisfred: no, the nightlies packages were missing a file
[14:46] <rye> Desktop Entry + U1 Shortcut Group
[14:46] <rye> how well is it parsing that?
[14:46] <thisfred> dobey: eh, so no as in yes, exactly>
[14:47] <dobey> thisfred: no as in no
[14:47] <thisfred> well, it was broken, we fixed it
[14:47] <dobey> yes
[14:47] <dobey> but fixing it wouldn't have made it have 2 entries
[14:48] <thisfred> but what would?
[14:48] <dobey> well, having ubuntuone-indicator and ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk installed might
[14:48] <dobey> or it could be a bug in indicator-messages; or maybe syncdaemon
[14:48] <thisfred> what is ubuntuone-indicator? Did we split that off?
[14:48] <dobey> no, it's the thing rye wrote
[14:49] <dobey> i don't know where it puts things though
[14:49] <thisfred> I don't think I have that
[14:49] <dobey> because it's not in ubuntu
[14:49] <dobey> it's not an official project that we support, he wrote in spare time and stuck it in his ppa or something
[14:49] <rye> dobey, well, i don't modify messaging menu at all
[14:49] <rye> dobey, i wanted to but you were faster :)
[14:50] <thisfred> ls /usr/share/indicators/messages/applications/ shows only 1 U1 entry
[14:50] <thisfred> so maybe our indicator code is doing something wrong to make an extra one show up
[14:50] <rye> and both of the entries launch ubuntuone-control-panel
[14:52] <thisfred> hmm, file sync is disconnected and won't connect at all for me
[14:54] <thisfred> State: READY
[14:54] <thisfred>     connection: Not User With Network
[14:54] <thisfred>     description: ready to connect
[14:54] <thisfred>     is_connected: False
[14:54] <thisfred>     is_error: False
[14:54] <thisfred>     is_online: False
[14:54] <thisfred>     queues: WORKING
[14:54] <thisfred> Not User With Network? What does that even mean?
[14:55] <rye> thisfred, token
[14:55] <thisfred> but my token works for couchdb
[14:55] <rye> thisfred, then not token
[14:55] <thisfred> hehe
[14:56] <rye> thisfred, does u1sdtool -c work?
[14:56] <rye> thisfred, better yet, what gets written to syncdaemon.log ?
[14:56] <thisfred> I'll look. -c does not error, but does not connect either
[14:57] <rye> facundobatista, is there anything i can do to get my syncdaemon into IDLE state again, it has been Move()ing these files for 2 weeks - http://paste.ubuntu.com/568764/
[14:57] <thisfred> rye: nothing in the logs
[14:57] <facundobatista> rye, hack a .py, or wait next week when I go back to fixing bugs
[14:58] <rye> thisfred, looks like it does not hear your dbus commands
[14:58] <thisfred> rye, so where do I turn up the dbus volume? :)
[14:59] <thisfred> o wait maybe there's a syncdaemon from a branch running
[14:59] <thisfred> let me try
[15:00] <thisfred> nope. It says 1 file uploading to your personal cloud
[15:00] <thisfred> but does not actually connect'
[15:01] <thisfred> so the notifications work, but not syncdaemon itself. Weird
[15:01] <rye> thisfred, does u1sdtool --quit work?
[15:01] <rye> thisfred, d-feet, does it have com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon ?
[15:02] <rye> i should have reversed my thougts
[15:02] <rye> h
[15:02] <thisfred> rye, I have to run it twice but then it quits yes
[15:02] <thisfred> looking at dfeet now
[15:02] <thisfred> rye it does show com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon
[15:03] <rye> thisfred, ok, after you restart it is it responsible to dbus commands?
[15:04] <thisfred> rye should I try through d-feet?
[15:05] <mattgriffin> thisfred: i have a screenshot that shows the bubble in bug 720981 (actually bug 716457). want me to attach it to one of those bugs?
[15:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 720981 in ubuntuone-client "Natty: Shows syncing if not connect to U1 servers (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720981
[15:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716457 in ubuntuone-client "'N files are uploading' is missleading when syncdaemon is disconnected (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716457
[15:06] <thisfred> mattgriffin: the approximate text of the bubble is good enough, if that's not already in the older bug
[15:06] <rye> thisfred, well, it should be the same
[15:07] <thisfred> rye, d-feet gets responses from it
[15:07] <thisfred> it just will not connect and does not log any errors. Should I file a bug?
[15:08] <rye> thisfred, is it running in debug mode?
[15:08] <thisfred> I just upgraded this morning, so my fear is that this will happen to more people
[15:09] <thisfred> rye, probably not, let me try that
[15:09] <mattgriffin> thisfred: went ahead and attached screenshot to bug 716457
[15:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716457 in ubuntuone-client "'N files are uploading' is missleading when syncdaemon is disconnected (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716457
[15:09] <rye> nessita, how about switching debug mode on by default for nightlies?
[15:09] <thisfred> mattgriffin: thx
[15:09] <mattgriffin> np
[15:09] <thisfred> rye, how do I do that again?
[15:10] <thisfred> it's not in the --help, or am I reading past it?
[15:10] <dobey> rye: debug mode in what?
[15:10] <rye> thisfred, echo -e "[logging]\nlevel = DEBUG" > ~/.config/ubuntuone/logging.conf; u1sdtool -q; u1sdtool -c
[15:11] <rye> dobey, in syncdaemon
[15:11] <dobey> rye: it is the default
[15:11] <rye> thisfred, could you please check what version of ubuntuone you are running?
[15:11] <rye> dobey, i remember this to be the default some time earlier, but i keep TRACE level in logging.conf just in case
[15:11] <thisfred> rye, it's the nightlies. Version of which package?
[15:12] <rye> thisfred, ubuntuone-client
[15:12] <dobey> rye: the logging.conf is generated automatically at build time, and defaults to DEBUG if minor version number is odd
[15:12] <rye> dobey, that's just awesome!
[15:12] <dobey> also, the nightlies build with --enable-debug
[15:13] <rye> major.minor.revision... so for natty final it will be 1.6 ?
[15:13] <dobey> major.minor.micro
[15:13] <dobey> yes
[15:13] <thisfred> rye: 1.5.4+r876~maverick1
[15:13] <rye> 3 file(s) are uploading to your personal cloud
[15:13] <dobey> 1.6.0 should be the version in narwhal final freeze
[15:13] <thisfred> with debug enabled, still nothing in the logs, still not connecting
[15:14] <rye> thisfred, syncdaemon should autoconnect, could you please pastebin the syncdaemon.log ?
[15:14] <thisfred> rye: that's what I'm saying: it's empty
[15:14] <thisfred> as is syncdaemon-exceptions.log
[15:14] <rye> thisfred, is there syncdaemon-debug.log ?
[15:15] <thisfred> rye: nope
[15:15] <rye> thisfred, let's make it, kill syncdaemon and run /usr/lib/ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone-syncdaemon --debug
[15:15] <rye> thisfred, it is like it does not start at all
[15:16] <thisfred> o wait, again something in /usr/local wtf
[15:18] <rye> /usr/local/wtf/ - the software that runs but nobody knows why
[15:19] <thisfred> rye: http://paste.ubuntu.com/568777/
[15:20] <thisfred> after removing everything from user local and restarting
[15:20] <thisfred> ah no
[15:20] <rye>  Failed to execute program /usr/local/libexec/ubuntuone-login: Success
[15:20] <rye> thisfred, ^
[15:20] <thisfred> why does this crap keep reappearing in /usr/local
[15:22] <rye> thisfred, you may be running installd which installs anything that has Makefile in it :)
[15:22] <rye> i am of course joking
[15:25] <thisfred> hmm, I removed everything related to u1 from /usr/local, now nothing works :)
[15:25] <mandel> nessita: ping
[15:26] <nessita> mandel: pong
[15:26] <mandel> nessita: here or in u1internal?
[15:26] <mandel> it can be public :P
[15:26] <nessita> mandel: what is it about?
[15:27] <mandel> nessita:  PQM broke due to an import of libproxy done in the linux/api/restclient.py
[15:28] <mandel> nessita: AFAIK that code is not use anywhere, do you know if it is?
[15:28] <mandel> 'case we would like to remove it
[15:29] <joshuahoover> mandel: does the current windows beta sync the music purchases folder?
[15:29] <rye> joshuahoover, no
[15:29] <nessita> mandel: I have no idea, honestly. Who is the author of that code? ie, bzr blame says who?
[15:29] <rye> joshuahoover, bug
[15:29] <joshuahoover> rye: thanks!
[15:30] <thisfred> rye: I'm baffled: I reinstalled u1-client, but dbus is still looking for and no longer finding /usr/local/libexec/ubuntuone-syncdaemon
[15:30] <rye> joshuahoover, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-windows-installer/+bug/683117
[15:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 683117 in ubuntuone-windows-installer "Purchased Music is not synced (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [High,In progress]
[15:30] <mandel> joshuahoover: there is a bug with that :)
[15:30] <mandel> joshuahoover: music isa udf :(
[15:30] <joshuahoover> mandel, rye: right, no udf syncing (yet)
[15:30] <rye> thisfred, check that com.ubuntuone.syncdaemon is handled by the proper service
[15:31] <thisfred> rye aha
[15:31] <thisfred> it is not. How do I tell it to change its mind?
[15:31] <mandel> nessita: rodrigo and john.le
[15:32]  * mandel wonders which john?
[15:32] <nessita> mandel: can you please confirm with rodrigo_ and Chipaca if that is no longer used?
[15:32] <mandel> nessita: sure
[15:32] <nessita> mandel: john.lenton
[15:33] <mandel> Chipaca: ping
[15:33] <rodrigo_> nessita, confirm what?
[15:34] <Chipaca> mandel: I'm going off, and won't be back for a while. Can you email? (or explain here, I'll read later)
[15:34] <mandel> Chipaca: email is ok
[15:35] <thisfred> I'll reboot and see what happens brb
[15:36] <nessita> mandel, rodrigo_: whether the restful api client code can be thrown away or not
[15:36] <rodrigo_> nessita, ah, ok, mandel is already telling me about it
[15:36] <nessita> awesome
[15:36] <rodrigo_> afair, it was used in u1-preferences, so yes, it can be removed if the ugly u1-prefs is no longer around :)
[15:37] <mandel> rodrigo_: so I can kill the guy, right?
[15:38] <rodrigo_> I told you to "remove" it, if you kill it, it would be your fault, not mine :)
[15:40] <rye> joshuahoover, btw, see my message to ubuntuone-users about tomboy notes, we can now ask the users to test their notes via tomboy web api (read-only for now)
[15:40] <joshuahoover> rye: k
[15:42] <thisfred> I think I fixed it finally
[15:43] <thisfred> remind me to alias "make install" to echo "no you idiot"
[15:43] <thisfred> yep, I have sync
[15:44] <thisfred> rye, thx for helping me debug my past mistakes ;)
[15:45] <rye> thisfred, you are welcome, sync should always sync
[16:01] <joshuahoover> ralsina: ping
[16:01] <ralsina> joshuahoover: pong
[16:01] <joshuahoover> ralsina: are we still doing bug #673012 for natty?
[16:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 673012 in desktopcouch (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Async monitoring of _changes (affects: 1) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673012
[16:01] <joshuahoover> ralsina: aq told me to ask you :)
[16:02] <ralsina> joshuahoover: first I've heard of it, so let me figure it out and I'll get back to you :-)
[16:02] <joshuahoover> ralsina: k
[16:02] <joshuahoover> thisfred: ping
[16:05] <ralsina> joshuahoover: I wonder why aq asked you to ask me. That's his branch! :-D
[16:06] <joshuahoover> ralsina: he said he was told (by dobey) it was too hard to do properly and he doesn't know the current status of it now
[16:07] <ralsina> joshuahoover: ok, that was before my time, i'll ask dobey then
[16:07] <joshuahoover> ralsina: i'm guessing it's a no-go for natty based on this chat w/ you and my short chat with aq :)
[16:08] <ralsina> joshuahoover: yeah, I guess that's so
[16:08] <dobey> i didn't get to finish doing it with how i think it should be done, and thisfred said he will look at it if he has time for the API development stuff
[16:10] <joshuahoover> dobey: thanks
[16:20] <thisfred> joshuahoover: pong
[16:20] <joshuahoover> thisfred: are you working on bug #672628 ?
[16:20] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 672628 in desktopcouch (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Add desktopcouch.ubuntuone module to access Ubuntu One CouchDBs from a Python library (affects: 1) (heat: 34)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672628
[16:21] <thisfred> the above is probably correct, unless I get a brilliant idea of how to do it in a very short amount of time
[16:21] <thisfred> joshuahoover: not currently, but it is on my plate
[16:21] <joshuahoover> thisfred: do we need a freeze exception since next week is feature freeze?
[16:22] <thisfred> joshuahoover: not sure we will get time for it even after feature freeze
[16:22] <joshuahoover> thisfred: ah, ok
[16:23] <thisfred> joshuahoover: what we could do is merge the rejected version, and then fix it if we get time, but then if we don't we have something awful in natty
[16:23] <joshuahoover> thisfred: i'd rather not add it
[16:24] <thisfred> It's a neat thing for developers to have, but I think there are more crucial things to get into natty
[16:31] <mandel> ralsina: ping
[16:31] <ralsina> mandel: pong
[16:31] <mandel> ralsina: did you get the screen with the design of the installer?
[16:31] <ralsina> mandel: yes
[16:32] <mandel> ralsina: the ones with the nice picst, right?
[16:32] <mandel> ralsina: what do you think? my only complain is the progress bar
[16:33] <ralsina> yeah, I like it. What's the problem you see with the progress bar?
[16:34] <ralsina> mandel: I can't  find it now though
[16:35] <mandel> ralsina: the idea of the dots looks like we have to write a very fancy custom widget… do we have the time for that>
[16:35] <mandel> ?
[16:35] <ralsina> mandel: I can't find the freaking image, but doing dots in a progress bar in pyqt would be trivial
[16:37] <mandel> ralsina: I'l fwd the email
[16:37] <ralsina> mandel, see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/stylesheet-examples.html#customizing-qprogressbar
[16:38] <mandel> ralsina: we have to do the gradients, take a look is more sofisticated that using dots
[16:38] <ralsina> basically, we can change the "chunk" thing to make it look like dots
[16:38] <ralsina> ok, let me see
[16:39] <mandel> ralsina: I knew that already… but it will look, as a techinical person would say, 'un poco mierda'
[16:39] <ralsina> mandel: that progressbar is doable, but yes, it'sprobably a full day of work
[16:40] <mandel> ralsina: everything is doable with computers, is a matter of time :)
[16:40] <ralsina> at least that's my best estimate :-)
[16:41] <ralsina> If they were all the same color, it's doable with styles
[16:41] <ralsina> If they were not changing color, they would be doable too
[16:42] <helo> with the ubuntu one mobile, i'd have to also purchase enough storage space to store all of my non-ubuntuone-purchased music?
[16:44] <mandel> ralsina: yes, but they us a gradient, although now that i think of it…. you have layered widgets in qt, as i adding a transparent widget on top of an other?
[16:44] <mandel> ralsina: you could draw the circles as a widget with the in alpha 0 and place it on top of a gradient… sound shitty but could look ok
[16:44] <helo> nice job beating out dropbox's cost/GB, btw :)
[16:45] <ralsina> mandel: we would have to use a translucid widget on the right side and make it SMALLER
[16:45] <helo> pretty impressive for such a new service
[16:45] <ralsina> mandel: it's easier to just composite a new image and change it :-)
[16:46] <mandel> helo: yes, if you have 50 gb of not purchased u1 music, you will need to pay for that space…
[16:46] <mandel> helo: that was your question, right?
[16:47] <helo> yes :)
[16:47] <mandel> ralsina: I think I've forgotten all the Qt I knew...
[16:47] <mandel> helo: :)
[16:48] <ralsina> mandel: that's what I'm here for!
[16:48] <mandel> ralsina: also, that is assuming we know how to do the installer in t and get the progress of the msi :)
[16:48] <ralsina> If the chunk were MORE transparent, it would be doable with styles, too :-)
[16:49] <helo> i was wondering if the mobile plan may include unlimited storage of music, made economical by pooling all users' music uploads to prevent duplication of storage
[16:49] <ralsina> mandel: big assumptions there
[16:49] <mandel> ralsina: very big indeed
[16:49] <ralsina> BTW: I mailed the msi guy yesterday and today
[16:50] <mandel> helo: uhm… that would be the kind of idea to seel to joshuahoover he knows more about this things
[16:50] <mandel> ralsina: any luck?
[16:50] <ralsina> not yet :-(
[16:50] <helo> that would be a killer app for u1 imo... if the user uploads a music file that is already in the cloud, and it can somehow be determined (via soundhound type algorithm) to be similar to an existing song that has been uploaded, then no additional storage would be needed
[16:50] <ralsina> maybe my mails don't reach him somehow
[16:52] <dobey> i don't think that's necessarily feasible
[16:52] <mandel> helo: and what about copyrights/ownership and all those crazy legal things :)
[16:52] <mandel> ralsina: hmm we/you do not want to sound to desperate, also he might be at work
[16:53] <mandel> ralsina: play it cool dude ;)
[16:53] <helo> mandel: well, the user has shown to have a copyright by uploading the work in the first place
[16:53] <ralsina> mandel: sure
[16:53] <dobey> ok, time for lunch
[16:53] <dobey> bbiab
[16:54] <mandel> helo: well, true… anyways, I;m certainly not the right guy for this kind of thoughs… my brain is waaay to tired 2day
[16:54] <helo> mandel: storage services like u1 are already assuming the user has the right to receive a copy of a work
[16:55] <helo> that the upload
[16:55] <helo> *they
[16:55] <ralsina> helo: propose it as a wishlist in launchpad, assign to ubuntu one
[16:57] <ralsina> helo: I am not sure we are doing storage deduplication yet, so it may be there are N copies of the song stored, so it has to count against each user.
[16:57] <ralsina> helo: OTOH if it's not done, it looks like it should be done after magic uploads are implemented :-)
[16:58] <ralsina> helo: magic uploads being something I probably should not have mentioned here
[16:59] <ralsina> mandel: the sample text shown with the "notes" picture is pure genius in that context.
[17:02] <mandel> ralsina: haha I did not read them
[17:17] <mandel> laters everyone!
[17:41] <espen77> just doing sha leaves a small chance that 2 different files wil give same sha,..can you then get access to a file that wasnt yours?
[17:43] <CardinalFang> espen77, yes, theoretically.  So, that's the wrong way until the "small chance" is astronomical.
[17:45] <CardinalFang> When the stray bit-flipped in memory is far more likely to yield the wrong file than a hash collision, then it may be close to okay.
[17:46] <espen77> CardinalFang: 1/astronomical have a tendency to end up turned and twisted into security-fault-reports
[17:48] <ralsina> espen77: store the hash of the whole file and of the first.... 2048 bytes. It would be a miracle if both hashes collided
[17:49] <espen77> ralsina: yeah, or the hash and file size..
[17:50] <CardinalFang> Or make some challenge-response.  client: I want to make $1$1289347612.  Server: okay, send bytes... 42 to 80 to make sure what you have is what I have.  Client: "asdlkhjfa"!
[17:53] <CardinalFang> Log failures.  If an attempt for some hash fails, mark it as probed and, the forever after that, server demands full uploads to  make sure attacker can't claim a reference to it.
[17:53] <CardinalFang> Maybe that's overkill.
[17:53] <espen77> i am just imagining making millions of smal files with different hash'es as a form of fishing if it is too easy
[17:59] <jdobrien> I don't know what purpose that kind of fishing would have
[17:59] <jdobrien> CardinalFang, FWIW, that's not how magic hashes will work
[17:59] <CardinalFang> jdobrien, I know nothing of them, TBH.
[18:00] <jdobrien> CardinalFang, the logic for magic hash calculation will be publicly available in the protocol
[18:37] <helo> 1/astronomical is perfectly safe to rely on
[18:37] <ralsina> helo: there was literally 1/astronomical chance of the dinosaurs being extinct. Didn't work too well.
[18:38] <dobey> actually, the probability of dinosaurs going extinct was 1:1
[18:38] <helo> ralsina: no there wasn't... it happened... 1/astronomical is more like the chance of a woman giving birth to a healthy baby mouse
[18:39] <ralsina> well, I count "becoming extinct because of a freaking asteroid" as astronomical. It being an astronomical event and all.
[18:39] <dobey> helo: but the dinosaurs weren't expecting it to happen. they weren't building spacehips to evacuate the planet
[18:40] <ralsina> helo: "astronomical" is not well defined. If it means 10^50 I'm maybe happy with it. If it means 1/10^2 (chances of there being a moon eclipse)... not so much.
[18:40] <helo> there are plenty of astronomical events that occur with regularity... by "astronomical" i mean more improbable than we can intuitively comprehend
[18:41] <ralsina> helo: I think the words you were looking for were "very very very unlikely". Or maybe with 4 verys, not sure.
[18:41] <helo> or "safe enough", which is easy if you use something like sha512
[18:41] <ralsina> helo: it depends on what you want to be safe against, really.
[18:42] <ralsina> For example, if you use a simple naïve strategy with a very good hash, you are safe against accidents, but not against malicious programmers.
[18:42] <ralsina> Since the malicious programmer can simply say "yes, I have this (very long hash) here, sir!"
[18:43] <ralsina> If we did that, it would be trivial to turn ubuntu one into a bittorrent replacement ;-)
[18:43] <helo> right... i was replying more to < espen77> CardinalFang: 1/astronomical have a tendency to end up turned and twisted into security-fault-reports
[18:44] <helo> or "< espen77> just doing sha leaves a small chance that 2 different files wil give same sha,..[]"
[18:44] <ralsina> sha as in sha-1? No, that one's broken.
[18:48] <helo> i was thinking "some unbroken sha", as "some broken sha" would leave little room for argument :)
[18:51] <dobey> ralsina: astronomical is an english metaphor for "outrageously high"
[18:52] <ralsina> dobey: my inner mathematician rebels against that :-)
[18:52] <dobey> yes, well, you're not an english prof for a reason :)
[18:53] <thisfred> all my inner mathematician ever does is demand hot dogs
[18:54] <dobey> thisfred: i hope they are at least the kosher organic beefy ones
[18:54] <dobey> thisfred: and on a stick, dipped in corn meal, and deep fried.
[18:55] <thisfred> jalapeño corndogs!
[19:04] <dobey> i need to find a good recording of the 9th
[19:10]  * alecu pictures dobey dressed like alex and his droogies
[19:45] <karni> beuno: If a user marks an item as not-syncable, while it's parent directory is marked as syncable - should I forbid that? If not, how should I mark the parent? If we want to have 'partially syncable' indicator, it's a good moment for me to know that.
[19:46] <dobey> karni: you can't disable syncing sub-folders/files of a synced folder in ubuntu
[19:46] <karni> beuno: In context of that question - I wonder how design team will manage to come up with things without ever consulting me ;) - as you see, there are sill bits missing and they can't design it without telling me "ok we've designed it that way. so you'll have to add this feature and that one" ;D
[19:46] <karni> dobey: that'd be the easiest solution
[19:46] <karni> dobey: and be consistent with U1.. I think we have the answer.
[19:47] <beuno> karni, I wouldn't let people mark things as "not syncable", just syncable and everything under it is auto-synced
[19:47] <karni> dobey: the Android app is way more different. we sync per folder/level basis
[19:47] <karni> beuno: by default everything is 'not syncable' - I mean, it depends what indicator the design team comes up with.
[19:47] <dobey> right becasue the phone has no storage
[19:48] <karni> dobey: little storage, yes.
[19:48] <beuno> karni, and design is creating abstract concepts, we'll bring them down to reality together
[19:48] <dobey> well, 64K ought to be enough for anyone
[19:48] <karni> dobey: often MicroSD card, 2gigs, 4, 8(?)
[19:48] <karni> beuno: uhm :)
[19:48] <karni> dobey: hahahh
[19:49] <karni> beuno: ok then :) we've got that in place ;) I'll implement blocking of marking as "not syncable" if parent is synced.
[19:50] <beuno> karni, perfect
[19:50] <karni> beuno: one question. somewhat design question.
[19:50] <karni> beuno: imagine user starts selecting few folders, foo, bar, baz as syncable
[19:50] <karni> beuno: should I immediately start download of those items (I think so), or wait for next sync session (either scheduled, or on app start)
[19:51] <karni> beuno: I'd normally expect the items to start downloading immediately.
[19:51] <beuno> karni, immediately, yes
[19:52] <karni> beuno: and in case sync request appears in the mean time, I'll schedule that for *after* the transfers have finished (because you can have other folders with items pending sync)
[20:05] <karni> verterok: facundobatista: I'm sorry to bother, I think I have asked that verterok once, but I'd like to double check. Is node_id guaranteed to be unique amongst all volumes or just the volume which owns it?
[20:06] <beuno> karni, among all volumes
[20:06] <karni> beuno: thank you :)!! that's good.
[20:07]  * nessita -> errands, bbl
[20:08] <verterok> karni: but isn't defined anywhere, and it's an implementation detail
[20:08] <karni> verterok: oh right... :S that's what you answer me some time ago :<
[20:08] <verterok> karni: (share|volume_id, node_id) is unique
[20:08] <karni> verterok: please, can they be unique among volumes :D
[20:09] <karni> verterok: yeah :< I know.. the code would look much cleaner if I could just pass the nodeId and not volumeId+nodeId every time I need to be unique
[20:09] <karni> verterok: so I can't/shouldn't base on beuno's answer?
[20:11] <verterok> karni: it's an implementation detail, if we change the implementation for some weird reason, all clients that asume that node_id are unique will stop working/break/creash&burn
[20:11] <verterok> karni: is really that ugly to have one more arg?
[20:11] <karni> verterok: Ok, you've made that clear. Thank you :<
[20:11] <karni> verterok: in Java, yes ;D
[20:12] <verterok> karni: oh :(
[20:12] <karni> verterok: plus, there's some  SQL to it, but don't worry.
[20:12] <karni> verterok: You made it clear and I understand the reasoning.
[20:12] <beuno> karni, *I* would assume it's unique
[20:12] <beuno> and if it stops beign unique
[20:12] <verterok> karni: it should work, but I don't know for how long (I don't even know if we are going to change it or why we would change it)
[20:12] <beuno> you'll know
[20:12] <karni> beuno: :D
[20:12] <beuno> and we can update clients, it's android
[20:12] <karni> right right..
[20:13] <karni> you think, beuno :) ?
[20:13] <karni> yes we can :)!
[20:13] <beuno> I know this will make verterok nervous and store a "I told you so" card for me
[20:13] <karni> hahahahah
[20:13] <verterok> beuno: it's already in my pocket :)
[20:13] <beuno> heh
[20:14] <karni> hahaha. ok guys, it'll be my job anyway to have it working ;)!
[20:14] <beuno> exactly, so you can both curse me
[20:14] <karni> when things will change/go wrong, we'll know/notice.
[20:14] <verterok> I'm just saying...it *might* change :)
[20:14] <karni> verterok: I'll remember :)
[20:16] <helo> will there be a "desktop mode" for people who want it to synch everything just like the desktop version? some phones have lots of storage :)
[20:17] <beuno> helo, yeap
[20:18] <helo> bueno indeed...
[20:18] <karni> desktop mode. cool title for a setting.
[20:18] <beuno> karni, I would just say "Auto-sync everything"
[20:18] <beuno> but yes  :)
[20:18] <karni> beuno: right :D much more clear as of what it does
[20:19]  * beuno is a sucker for explicteness
[20:21] <dobey> ralsina: you need to stop reading japanese zen of python by way of google translate
[20:39] <ralsina> dobey: isn't that awesome? :-)
[20:41] <dobey> no :)
[20:42] <dobey> ralsina: http://wayofthemonkey.com/pics/fiero/cleangt.jpg is awesome
[20:42] <ralsina> dobey: "Besides Dutch, I can also understand a little Nikukatsu" is pure win :-)
[20:42] <ralsina> dobey: that's just a piece of iron that moves around ;-)
[20:43] <dobey> there isn't all that much iron in it, actually
[20:44] <dobey> nikukatsu?
[20:44] <dobey> fried what?
[20:49] <karni> come estas nikukatsu! :D
[20:50] <dobey> heh
[20:50] <ralsina> karni: good usage :-)
[20:50] <karni> win \o/
[20:52] <dobey> i hope i can run banshee without installing it
[21:04] <dobey> yay, all the stable-1-4 bugs in the SRU now have the maverick-updates milestone target, and ubuntu-sru subscribed
[21:04] <dobey> hopefully someone approves the maverick-proposed upload soon and the bugs get verified, and the sru released
[21:04] <dobey> joshuahoover, rye: ^^
[21:13]  * nessita -> back
[21:15] <ralsina> whoa, Qt in nokia is larger (in number of employees) than canonical. I had the memory from when they were 15 guys in Oslo :-(
[21:16] <dobey> what the heck was trolltech doing that they needed that many people :P
[21:16] <ralsina> dobey: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/18/buckets-of-cold-water/
[21:17] <ralsina> Basically, the full stack for Symbian, plus half the stack for nokia's version of meego, plus the desktop toolkit (which is huge) + the pyside python binding, + the IDE (QtCreator) + designer +++++
[21:17] <dobey> oh
[21:18] <ralsina> The scope of Qt is to abstract the whole freaking OS from mobile to OSX, so it's pretty huge.
[21:18] <dobey> so 260?
[21:18] <dobey> i thought you said more than canonical :P
[21:18] <ralsina> That's in Oslo alone
[21:18] <dobey> it said 60 in oslo
[21:18] <ralsina> Oh, read it wrong.
[21:18] <ralsina> Ok, so it's 60% of canonical
[21:19] <dobey> "We are currently ca 260 people in the Qt Development Frameworks organization in Nokia."
[21:19] <dobey> but still, that's a lot of people for qt
[21:19] <dobey> so i guess they are doing a lot more than just qt
[21:19] <ralsina> That probably doesn't include admin/HR/sysadmin and others since they are inside Nokia, too
[21:19] <dobey> well those people from trolltech probably got moved elsewhere, yeah
[21:19] <ralsina> dobey: you are thinking on Gtk+'s size instead of Qt's
[21:20] <dobey> no
[21:20] <gourgi> is there any way to move my ~/Ubuntu\ One directory somewhere else? like /media/cloud/u1 for example ? i use ubuntu 10.10
[21:20] <ralsina> dobey: ok. But Qt is huge and it was being enlarged very fast
[21:20] <dobey> gtk+ isn't exactly small
[21:21] <beuno> gourgi, not really, it needs to be inside your home dir
[21:21] <dobey> but either way, size of the library is irrelevant
[21:21] <ralsina> gtk+ covers about 25% of Qt's scope
[21:21] <ralsina> I mean scope, not code size, BTW
[21:21] <dobey> Qt as a library by itself has too much "scope" too
[21:21] <ralsina> dobey: nowadays it's more like a family of libraries
[21:21] <gourgi> beuno: can i move it to ~/cloud/u1 then ? if i move it do i have to symlink to ~/Ubuntu\ One ?
[21:22] <dobey> it wouldn't surprise me if 25% of qt these days was "abstract gtk+"
[21:22] <ralsina> dobey: that makes no sense
[21:22] <dobey> qt's scope is "if it exists, abstract it" afaict
[21:22] <rye> dobey, where and what?
[21:22] <gourgi> beuno:  i'm trying to unlutter my $HOME  :) , that's why i'm asking
[21:22] <beuno> gourgi, so, you can move it, but for Ubuntu One it will be a different folder with different files, so it will re-upload everything
[21:22] <ralsina> dobey: yes. But it specifically doesn't abstract gtk :-)
[21:23] <beuno> gourgi, not sure what happens when ~/Ubuntu One is a smylink
[21:23] <beuno> I'm guessing, not good things
[21:23] <ralsina> beuno: I don't expect it to work, but am not 100% sure
[21:23] <dobey> rye: there is a maverick sru (ubuntuone-client 1.4.6), i uploaded to maverick-proposed, waiting archive approval, and bug fix verification :)
[21:23] <dobey> ralsina: well, not all of it anyway... yet
[21:24] <ralsina> dobey: maybe you know something I don't
[21:24] <rye> dobey, looks yummy
[21:24] <ralsina> dobey: n this specific area I mean
[21:24] <ralsina> dobey: I know you know things I don't in general ;-)
[21:24] <gourgi> beuno: so basically i can't move ~/Ubuntu\ One directory, even inside another folder, right ?
[21:24] <dobey> ralsina: well it has some glib main loop stuff, and some gtk+ theme stuff
[21:24] <ralsina> dobey: it has had the glib main loop integration for about 5 years
[21:25] <dobey> gourgi: right
[21:25] <gourgi> :(
[21:25] <ralsina> dobey: and the gtk+ theme stuff is at the level of the windows look&feel or the OSX one. Useful for looking inconspicuous in your desktop.
[21:25] <gourgi> dobey: thanks
[21:26] <dobey> my desktop is a laminate covering over fiberboard
[21:27] <ralsina> dobey: and my widgets are a bunch of analogic gauges in my workshop, but anyway, you do know what I meant :-)
[21:28] <dobey> and you know what i mean. gtk+ and qt are both way too large, and the wrong approach to solve the problems they're trying to solve. :)
[21:28] <ralsina> dobey: bug #661292 ...
[21:28] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 661292 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "Nautilus is not aware of published files (affects: 5) (dups: 3) (heat: 30)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661292
[21:29] <ralsina> I had reproduced that bug in trunk this week
[21:29] <ralsina> I think with a different bug number, though
[21:29] <ralsina> It breaks if you logout and login again
[21:30] <ralsina> dobey: bug #701557
[21:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 701557 in ubuntuone-client "In nautilus and the ubuntuone-indicator "Copy the link" of a published file disappear after time (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/701557
[21:30] <dobey> it's a different bug to the stable-1-4 issue
[21:31] <dobey> and the stable-1-4 issue should be fixed with the branch linked to that bug
[21:31] <ralsina> I have not checked 1.4-stable
[21:31] <ralsina> but it is marked as invalid for triunk?
[21:32] <dobey> yes, because, the issue there is not the same thing
[21:32] <dobey> and as you pointed, there is a different bug for the issue you're talking about
[21:32] <ralsina> well, if you restart the session, my bug looks the same as your bug ;-)
[21:33] <dobey> yes, well
[21:33] <dobey> don't look at the lady in the red dress
[21:33] <ralsina> And it's really the same issue, the plugin is not getting the output of  the list of published files
[21:33] <ralsina> That branch is a fix that doesn't fix the right thing. But what the heck, it doesn't make the other one worse, either.
[21:34] <dobey> no, it's not the same issue
[21:35] <ralsina> ok
[21:35] <dobey> the bug title for the one you're complaining about might be off or something, but the issue in it is fixed by the branch; as you can see, the reporter tested and approved the branch himself :)
[21:36] <dobey> non-engineers aren't always the best at picking good bug titles :)
[21:36] <ralsina> dobey: you know as well as I do that means it fixed that specific symptom and maybe not the real issue. Or I will use that argument against you in the future ;-)
[21:38] <dobey> it fixes the reported issue. if there are also other issues, then that is a separate issue :)
[21:38] <ralsina> anyway, don't let me bother you. And notice how I don't say you don't listen to me ;-)
[21:38] <dobey> also, the related code in trunk, vs what is in maverick, is a fair bit different
[21:39] <dobey> i do listen
[21:39] <dobey> that is why i am suffering the pain of trying to build banshee right now :(
[21:39] <dobey> finally, it configures
[21:41] <dobey> but it did not find libu1
[21:41] <dobey> wtf
[21:44] <joshuahoover> dobey: remind me again where i can see a list of those bugs that need verified?
[21:44] <ralsina> I looked at the banshee code and ... well, I owe you a beer at UDS
[21:46] <dobey> joshuahoover: hrmm, the package link doesn't work yet because the upload to maverick-proposed has not been accepted yet
[21:46] <joshuahoover> dobey: ah, ok
[21:47] <dobey> joshuahoover: but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bugs should mostly suffice
[21:47] <dobey> joshuahoover: all of the "in progress" bugs there are the ones in 1.4.6
[21:47] <joshuahoover> dobey: k, i can test those
[21:49] <dobey> joshuahoover: i guess some of them need the TESTCASE info bits too. thanks :)
[21:50] <joshuahoover> dobey: awesome...sigh
[21:50] <dobey> oh, so i guess that banshee disables the store by default, but the stupid summary at the end of the ./configure run makes it look like it's not finding the libu1 development stuff. grr
[22:00] <ralsina> Ok, gotta run. Bye people!
[22:02] <dobey> same here, see you on tuesday :)
[22:17] <nessita> ok, I'm off!
[22:17] <nessita> have a nice weekend everyone
[23:41] <grunthus> Hi, anyone about to help with bzr ci command for a bugfix I'm hoping to get merged?