[02:15] <macinnisrr> Hi!
[02:22] <macinnisrr> I had asked about the possibility of including the option to include a multimedia PPA by KXStudio a while back, and was told that it had been discussed, but decided against due to security concerns.  While I understand that, what is the possibility of the UbuntuStudio team hosting their own ppa, whose trusted members can add new and updated packages to distributions as old as they can support (eg: when Ardour 3.0 com
[03:44] <ScottL> hi macinnisrr 
[03:45] <macinnisrr> Hey!
[03:45] <ScottL> several aspects have been discussed about ppa
[03:46] <ScottL> one of the first and foremost was that the effort should really go into getting packages into the repos for everyone rather than just ppa
[03:46] <ScottL> oh, he's gone
[15:13] <ScottL_> did anyone hear about network-manager causing conflicts with the -rt kernel?
[15:14] <ScottL_> i'm not sure if this is speculation or documented
[15:14] <holstein> ScottL_: what conflicts?
[15:14] <holstein> i have an install with both around here
[15:14] <holstein> i could look into it
[15:14] <ScottL_> holstein, i suspected it may have been misinformation
[15:15] <ScottL_> it was from a user on the forums
[15:15] <ScottL_> i wouldn't look into it though
[15:15] <holstein> if you want to link me up
[15:15] <holstein> ill respond
[15:15] <ScottL_> hold on
[15:15] <holstein> and offer to confirm
[15:16] <ScottL_> ah, he's already backed away from it a bit: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10473488#post10473488
[15:17] <ScottL_> i'm beginning to suspect some stratification in users on the forums and users on lists and irc
[15:17] <ScottL_> the ones in the forums don't seem to be as abreast of the current status and problems
[15:17] <ScottL_> in some ways they might even be creating their own misinformation and are unable to find where to get a definitive answer :(
[15:18] <ScottL_> i think i'm going to post there, in a new thread, and mention three things:
[15:18] <holstein> yeah, thats mis-information
[15:18] <holstein> its not really a conflict
[15:18] <holstein> and its not really isolated to a kernel
[15:18] <ScottL_> 1. the list and irc a GREAT places to get definitive and current information
[15:18] <holstein> i heard someone explain it well
[15:18] <holstein> and i should have took notes
[15:18] <ScottL_> 2. ask if people in the forums generally ONLY stay in the forums
[15:19] <ScottL_> 3. and maybe proffer a general Q&A to help communication and information flow
[15:19] <ScottL_> lol, holstein, there are many times i wish i had notes :)
[15:19] <holstein> hell, id like to say 'is ubuntustudio dying?, only if you let it'
[15:20] <ScottL_> oh, oh...that's great!  yeah, you should say that :)
[15:21] <ScottL_> i have been trying to be very positive in my forums posts and always present a way for the users to get involved
[15:21] <holstein> yeah, i forget about them
[15:21] <holstein> i'll get active for a minute
[15:22] <holstein> and just forget to go look
[15:22] <ScottL_> also autostatic mentioned that it would be great to have a dev presence in the forums, eric used to do that quite a bit but he's not around so much anymore :(
[15:22] <ScottL_> holstein, yeah, same here
[15:22] <holstein> sometimes there are folk that ask
[15:22] <holstein> how to help
[15:22] <holstein> next time i'll suggest that
[15:23] <holstein> not a dev presence
[15:23] <ScottL_> there's a big sticky on the beginning of the studio forums
[15:23] <ScottL_> about helping
[15:23] <holstein> but a regular member
[15:23] <holstein> that can come to the IRC
[15:23] <holstein> and unify some responses
[15:23] <ScottL_> but i suppose there are also crap loads of "how do i configure jack?" posts and people keep posting new ones :/
[15:23] <holstein> it would be nice to have a clean and clear wiki too
[15:23] <holstein> for JACK
[15:24] <ScottL_> so, it's not like some of those persons are terribly resourceful
[15:24] <holstein> where, when we help one person
[15:24] <holstein> they can post the process
[15:24] <holstein> based on hardware
[15:24] <holstein> for others to learn from
[15:24] <ScottL_> yeah, like a resource database or knowledge base
[15:24] <holstein> its a lot of work though
[15:24] <holstein> we were kinda doing that with OSMP wiki
[15:25] <holstein> and got slack about it
[15:25] <ScottL_> i've been trying to also drum up support for developing an artwork team around ubuntu studio...no luck so far though
[15:25] <holstein> also, the ALSA and ffado sites can be resourceful for that purpse
[15:25] <holstein> purpose*
[15:26] <holstein> if you know what you're looking for
[15:26] <ScottL_> i think i'm going to bug TheMuso to make one more set of changes (one that i forgot and one that should be undone) and then we can work on the menu :)
[15:26] <holstein> cool
[15:26] <ScottL_> s/changes/changes to the seeds
[15:27] <ScottL_> i added dvd-styler, which is awesome for making dvd's, but it brings in a bunch of other stuff, like dvdisaster and xine
[15:27] <ScottL_> and honestly, do we have a user base that really makes loads of dvd's?  probably not
[15:27] <holstein> maybe
[15:27] <holstein> i have installed some tools for that purpose
[15:27] <holstein> thats for sure
[15:27] <holstein> BUT
[15:27] <ScottL_> but i wouldn't say it was a lot of our users though
[15:27] <holstein> these days you can be a video guy
[15:28] <holstein> and not ever touch a DVD
[15:28] <holstein> tough call
[15:28] <ScottL_> but again, dvd-styler is really the best that i've played with...even above bombono which is touted as the best lately
[15:28] <holstein> ScottL_: how much space?
[15:28] <ScottL_> space?  for dvd-styler install?
[15:28] <holstein> i mean, we're really talking about a DL size
[15:28] <holstein> in my opinion
[15:29] <holstein> if it dont fit on a CD
[15:29] <holstein> then, i dont really care how much bigger it is
[15:29] <holstein> but, i got fast-ish internet
[15:29] <ScottL_> but some users will, especially if they're on dial up
[15:29] <ScottL_> but here's the real thing i worry about... bloat
[15:29] <holstein> still, whats the big difference in 1.8 or 1.9 GB's
[15:30] <ScottL_> if we leave this and then we leave that, next thing we know we have a HUGE disc and no one knows why most of it is there
[15:30] <holstein> ScottL_: there was a 'clean out' though
[15:30] <holstein> and i totally think the discussion is getting where it needs to get
[15:30] <holstein> 'what is the future'
[15:30] <holstein> what are we trying to do
[15:30] <holstein> who is our market
[15:30] <ScottL_> yeah, and i found a very strong work flow for making dvd's, but that doesn't mean there is a demand for it though :/
[15:31] <holstein> whats US supposed to be out of the box
[15:31] <holstein> i totally appreciate the task selection
[15:31] <holstein> but, i dont think a new user knows what that is
[15:31] <ScottL_> troy_s really scolded me about being excited about making dvd's....he said "welcome to mid 1990's"  LOL
[15:31] <ScottL_> holstein, i agree about tasksel
[15:31] <holstein> and i think for our audience
[15:32] <holstein> a live installer
[15:32] <holstein> and just sets something up
[15:32] <holstein> out of the box
[15:32] <holstein> would be easier for the new user
[15:32] <holstein> and more like ubuntu
[15:32] <holstein> but, do we want to be easier?
[15:32] <holstein> is that important?
[15:32] <ScottL_> i'm favoring a stripped down (like we are heading) package selection, very strong for the work flows we deem most desired, and maybe not even consider tasksel
[15:33] <ScottL_> even if we don't do livedvd
[15:33] <ScottL_> BUT, if we do
[15:33] <holstein> yup
[15:33] <holstein> a compromise is fine with me
[15:33] <ScottL_> then we are already freed up for that
[15:34] <ScottL_> i need to think this weekend, see if anything is critical right now, if anything needs to be done before the end of Feb
[15:34] <holstein> yeah
[15:34] <holstein> feb24
[15:34] <holstein> the stuff im thinking about
[15:34] <holstein> changes*
[15:34] <ScottL_> if not, then maybe i wait until after RPM and then hit the ground running with meeting, and figuring out a direction for the next few releases
[15:34] <holstein> are really for 12.04
[15:34] <holstein> the next LTS
[15:36]  * ScottL_ was making chocolate milk for son
[15:37] <ScottL_> but also see about forging some relations with "downstream" as well and getting other distros to contribute to development as well
[15:37] <ScottL_> but most important, i'm tired of _talking_ about things...i want to _do_ something about these things
[15:38] <ScottL_> so i'd like for meetings and assigning responsibilities to people and start making progress again :)
[15:38] <holstein> yeah
[15:38] <holstein> i need to get the meeting announced
[15:38] <holstein> this week
[15:40] <holstein> even if its just you and I
[15:40] <holstein> for some of them
[15:40] <holstein> brainstorming and contacting whoever
[15:40] <holstein> the 'regular monthly time' model *should* help get folks here
[15:42] <ScottL_> yeah, that would be nice
[15:44] <ScottL_> but hopefull for the meeting where we talk about future releases and livedvd/gui installer others will be in attendance as well :P
[15:45] <holstein> eventually
[15:45] <holstein> hopefully sooner than later though
[15:57] <scott-upstairs> true
[15:58] <ailo> scott-upstairs: The network-manager caused problems at least in the past, why it was excluded by audio distros
[15:58] <ailo> Don't know the situation now, but I heard it got better
[15:59] <ailo> I would like to find out what processes can disrupt audio on a Linux system. I think there are a lot of variables probably
[15:59] <scott-upstairs> ailo, what i've been told is that the network-manager caused some degradation in performance because it would puts a load on the cpu from time to time which caused xruns
[16:00] <scott-upstairs> ailo, oh several, including even bluetooth that i believe is there and shouldn't be probably
[16:00] <scott-upstairs> ailo, a while back cory asked the.muso to include gwibber on the disc but not have it installed even to help this type of stuff
[16:01] <scott-upstairs> i suspect that the typical ubuntu studio user also uses his computer as a desktop and runs many, many things that might hurt performance
[16:03] <ailo> It would be nice to get to know what things may disrupt audio performance and at least document it. I'm also thinking about the possibility to further tune the UbuntuStudio Desktop to be more reliable. It is very reliable now with lowlatency kernel, but it wouldn't hurt to know what can make it unreliable, or even jsut enhance performance. On older machines this is a big gain.
[16:04] <scott-upstairs> absolutely, but then to really see it home would be to create documentation for others to use
[16:06] <ailo> stocc-upstairs: I've been following the discussion on #ubuntu-artwork and the mail list too. I almost feel like stepping in and talk to the guys. I think it gets a little out of hand sometimes.
[16:07] <ailo> But hopefully their reaching a solution soon
[16:07] <scott-upstairs> ailo, i'm not sure that would help, but then again, i'm not sure it wouldn't help :P
[16:07] <scott-upstairs> but it does seem a little out of control though
[16:08] <scott-upstairs> what i find strange is that there a many calls to talk to jono or some other person but no one is doing it
[16:08] <ailo> I'd think they
[16:08] <ailo> I think they're so occupied with that stuff now, that they won't have time to consider artwork for US
[16:08] <scott-upstairs> i thought about pm'ing jono about it just as a heads up but he probably has many, many other things to worry about
[16:09] <scott-upstairs> and these should be reasonable adults and find their own way, if it came down to two camps with diameterically oppossing view, then maybe arbitration with jono or someone would prove helpful
[16:09] <scott-upstairs> ailo, i agree, we probably wont see help currently :(
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> but like with other areas, i don't just give up after the first effort, it's cyclic
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> i'm do other things to help improve ubuntu studio and then come back to trying to get help with artwork after a while
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> s/i'm/i
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> errr
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> s/i'm/i'll
[16:11] <scott-upstairs> i'm still planning on blogging about needing some help with artwork and i did get one email about helping, so who knows where it will currently go?
[16:14] <ailo> I'm sure there are lot of guys willing to help provide artwork, but I think the main things is to get someone who can organize just the art bit. Doesn't need to be that big of a deal I think. And in my opinion UbuntuStudio might as well look Ubuntu-like.
[16:14] <holstein> more ubuntu-like would be fine with me
[16:15] <holstein> i really like the current theme-ing
[16:15] <holstein> looks slick
[16:15] <holstein> but some things are too dark
[16:15] <holstein> not asthetically
[16:15] <holstein> too dark to see what you need to
[16:17] <ailo> That's my first concern too, that it is functional. Dark is nice, like Ambience, but even default Ambience in my opinion is not the most functional. Text is not dark enough, I think.
[16:17] <ailo> Still, there are worse themes out there
[16:17] <holstein> functionality
[16:17] <holstein> and ease of maintaining
[16:18] <holstein> i think those should be top 2
[16:18] <holstein> then, slickness, and unique-ness
[16:18] <ailo> At least if there is no art-work guy, I agree fully.
[16:18] <holstein> no reason why we cant get all of that
[16:19] <holstein> thats something that could be taken care of before 11.10 i bet
[16:19] <holstein> new look and feel
[16:19] <holstein> unless we get a team
[16:19] <holstein> then, they can take their time and do whatever
[16:20] <ailo> I was working on pimping the Ambiance theme and Mono/Humanity icons. It's not much work, and you get functionality, slickness and a bit of uniqueness.
[16:20] <holstein> works for me
[16:20] <holstein> let me know if i can test something
[16:21] <ailo> I could probably do something worth trying out after the freeze deadline. I'm all occupied with the -controls until then.
[16:22] <holstein> sure
[16:22] <holstein> i like that
[16:22] <holstein> something to chip away at
[16:22] <holstein> and plan for 11.10
[16:22] <holstein> well, UI freeze is later
[16:23] <holstein> maybe we can sneak that in
[16:23] <ailo> I think we could probably do something for this release, if we really want to
[16:23] <holstein> ailo: we meaning you ;)
[16:23] <holstein> nah, i'll help if i can
[16:27] <ailo> holstein: Here's recolored Humanity folders and blue selection color http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7703622/Screenshot-2.png
[16:28] <ailo> The blue is inspired by the original US theme
[16:28] <holstein> i like the blue
[16:29] <holstein> i like colors too
[16:29] <holstein> im not a big fan of the mono-chrome modern looking scheme
[16:29] <holstein> the one everyone seems to be stealing from the OSX desktop
[16:29] <holstein> *or where ever
[16:30] <ailo> hostein: You'd like colored icons in the indicator field on the panel?
[16:31] <holstein> sure
[16:31] <holstein> i preffer that i think
[16:31] <holstein> not a deal breaker though
[16:31] <holstein> regular ubuntu is all 'greyed-out'
[17:28] <ailo> paultag: ping
[17:28] <paultag> ailo: pong
[17:29] <paultag> ailo: howdy
[17:29] <ailo> paultag: What's up? Did you start coding yet? I've come a bit further, so I could add some more stuff now.
[17:29] <paultag> ailo: just made some cosmetic changes -- git://git.pault.ag/paultag/ubuntustudio-controls.git
[17:30] <paultag> ailo: I'll do some work (today) after I finish my new release of software "X"
[17:30] <paultag> let's just say lots of people are looking foward to "X" having a release ;)
[17:30] <paultag> Oh shit
[17:30] <paultag> not X11
[17:31] <paultag> god I'm tried. I need $COFFEE
[17:32] <ailo> paultag: Alrite. I'll keep working just to educate myself. I'm still just fooling around with basic stuff.
[17:32] <paultag> ailo: aye :)
[17:33] <paultag> ailo: I saw what you did, it was flawless
[17:33] <paultag> ailo: I'll just set up some framework code and slam out a few things
[17:33] <paultag> but it looks really great
[17:35] <ailo> Really just copying from the code I've looked into so far. Trying to understand how it's done. There's a few programs here and there that are relevant, but it takes time to look through it. I think I want to do some tutorial later for beginners coding glade(Python.
[17:35] <paultag> ailo: :)
[17:36] <ailo> The ones I've seen are nice, but don't cover all the variables.
[18:34] <ailo> paultag: I added a list function for packages-to-be-installed and packages-to-be-removed, and made the all-extras button toggle all the extras. So, check it out if you want to.
[18:36] <ailo> And it's based on your version of the code
[18:37] <paultag> k, thanks
[18:38] <paultag> ailo: I'll check it out after I get this damn upload together :)
[19:03] <ailo_> paultag: Working on some bugs..
[19:06] <paultag> :)
[19:06] <paultag> we're almost ready to make a fluxbox 1.3 release :)
[19:07] <paultag> we just pushed it to git, and making a tarball now, debian package is up to date
[19:07] <paultag> we're closing out huge amounts of bugs
[19:17] <ailo_> paultag: Ok, now it's ready :P
[19:28] <paultag> woo! :)
[20:24] <ailo_> So, ScottL, scott-upstairs. You're going to maintain the -lowlatency? Is it going into the repos now, or what?
[20:28] <scott-upstairs> ailo_, good questions!  in order...i can and i will if no one else is going to, i'm not sure but i believe that part is up to alessio, uh huh    :)
[20:29] <ailo_> scott-upstairs: It seemed to me that persia was willing to upload it, but alessio had some doubts
[20:30] <scott-upstairs> ailo_, aye, it seemed that way to me as well :/
[20:31] <ailo_> scott-upstairs: I have no doubts as to whether we need it. I could probably maintain it as well. 
[20:33] <ailo_> The main difference from what I can see between the -generic and the -lowlatency at this point is a few configurations done differently.
[20:34] <scott-upstairs> ailo_, aye, that is what alessio has stated again and again and again (even though those in the UKT don't seem to grasph that :P  )
[20:34] <scott-upstairs> grasp even
[20:37] <ailo_> scott-upstairs: I was able to compile one for Debian with ease. As long as one bases the work on the distros source it aught to be extremely easy. At least as long as the kernel doesn't radically change in some way, in which case one could ask an expert. Testing the kernel before release is a must. Other than that, just follow the instructions, right?
[20:41] <scott-upstairs> alessio said it was extremely easy, he almost sounded embarrassed by it :)