[00:00] trudell, no, I mean what irc client are you using; quassel, xchat, irssi, or some other [00:01] now i'm using konversation, convencional [00:02] but if have better client program i can change [00:02] trudell, okay, its been a long time since I used Konversation, they have some online documents you can consult I suppose. I use the more modern kde4 version irc client quassel [00:03] bazhang: so quassel is better? [00:04] bazhang: well, i will change. can i create a channel and be op and control the moderation like hre? [00:05] trudell, sure, but you dont need to change irc clients to do that. ask in #freenode how to create your own channels [00:09] can you answer to me there? [00:10] trudell, join the channel first [00:11] bazhang: I do not want to bore you. If you are busy i come another day. [00:17] rtdos: why a telnet server? you should consider using an ssh server instead === Muzer is now known as MuzerAway [01:06] hi, i have an acer aspire one d255 running kubuntu 10.04. the sound does not work. can someone plz help? === mren is now known as mren|off [01:10] Hi, anyone knows how to fix kate's autocomplete? [01:14] james147: it's for my local network only with no outside internet access. [01:18] rtdos: still, ssh isnt really anymore complex to setup, [01:19] just set the ports, correct, james147? [01:21] rtdos: with ssh, all you need to do is install the server (openssh-server) and start the service (sudo start sshd (or ssh)) then type "ssh " on the client [01:22] that's it ? thanks i'll check it out now. === abcd is now known as Guest83141 [01:34] kjk === goo_ is now known as bateau === bateau is now known as Guest28174 === Guest28174 is now known as section9 === section9 is now known as Guest92722 === Guest92722 is now known as osirusoft [02:57] hi [03:00] 4.5 and 4.6 are exactly the same thing === osirusoft is now known as ernstbloch [03:04] alguien me puede decir para que carajo sirve esto [03:04] !es | raul [03:04] raul: En la mayoría de canales de Ubuntu se habla sólo en inglés. Si busca ayuda en español o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter. [03:05] ah listo [03:25] how can i find out which desktops i have installed and how to launch them? i have a friend who uses text based login and thinks he installed several different desktops but he is not sure which ones or how to launch them. [04:35] can someone help me out with the power scheme not changing when one plugs in/unplugs a charger? something to do with acpi? === nikhil_ is now known as nikhil_away [05:21] Hey all. I'm running into an issue of mindblowing flicker trying to use Kubuntu... googling has led me to the issue with nVidia cards and powermizer, but it's telling me to put some lines in /etc/modprobe.d/options, a file which does not exist in 10.04. [05:21] http://www.ubuntusolutions.org/2009/02/screen-flickering-with-nvidia-on-ubuntu.html [05:21] I tried sticking them into flickerfix.conf per an ubuntu wiki article I found, but the flicker problem still exists and I've no way to tell whether it's because the lines weren't picked up or because they were and didn't help. [05:22] Anyone have any ideas? This is the sixth time in a decade or so that I've said "this is it, I'm going to do it, I'm going to become a linux user" and every single time I've run into a debilitating issue that keeps me on Windows, and I'm really starting to believe I'm cursed. :( [05:44] ...Anyone? [05:44] This is seriously driving me nuts. There are other solutions that seem to achieve the same end that involve editing xorg.conf, but... of course, there is no xorg.conf anymore. === henk__ is now known as chills_7 === nikhil_away is now known as nikhil_ [06:00] Rask: hi [06:00] Rask: If you just make a xorg.conf it will read from it [06:01] Yeah, but I can't figure how to make that fix work... it requires inserting a line into a paragraph that's already talking about your video card [06:02] the xorg.conf fix looks more questionable than the modprobe one anyway... can we look back at that one? Basically I'm trying to add a couple 'option' lines to /etc/modprobe.d/options or its equivalent in 10.04. I'm led to understand by the manpage that the equivalent thing here is just to create any old .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/ so I've done this but it doesn't appear to work. Is there a way to know whether the files have been read proper [06:13] Rask: What's inside of modprobe.d ? [06:14] alsa-base.conf, a bunch of blacklist*.conf files, and my seemingly not-working nvidia.conf === nikhil_ is now known as nikhil_away [06:39] hello [06:41] Rask: Sorry back and forth [06:41] what's in nvidia? [06:42] http://www.ubuntusolutions.org/2009/02/screen-flickering-with-nvidia-on-ubuntu.html [06:42] The lines in there [06:42] but [06:42] Rask: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation. [06:42] This just in, I am apparently not using a driver called nvidia. [06:42] ... Okay, wasn't flooding. >.>; [06:43] Anyway, I installed nvidia-current and tried to modprobe it, and it said "no such device". [06:43] Which is somewhat confusing, because I know (and lspci knows) that I do have an nVidia card. [06:43] lsmod [06:44] What am I looking for? [06:44] nvidia [06:44] Not there [06:44] or nv [06:44] Not there either [06:44] pastebin please [06:45] There is "nouveau", which I'm led to understand is the open-source nvidia driver [06:45] ah yes it is [06:45] I can't really pastebin, I'm on a different compy here and on a text terminal there [06:45] is that text terminal connected to the internet? [06:46] apt-get install pastebinit [06:46] Well, I -can-, but it's highly cumbersome :) If you still need it, I guess I can do it, but it's not to be treated lightly (: [06:46] lsmod | pastebinit [06:46] hm, interesting [06:46] it will upload it to pastebin for you [06:47] very few things are really cumbersome :) [06:47] Oh poo. [06:47] It's noveau in anycase [06:47] Heavy load warnng [06:47] warning* [06:47] from pastebin? [06:47] Yes [06:49] Well, anyway [06:49] ah it's ok [06:49] I don't really need to see it now anyway [06:49] nouveau is currently doing the job, but I dunno if it takes the same params as nvidia [06:49] If it does, I can try that, but how do I find that out? [06:54] Rask: http://jimmod.com/blog/2010/06/solving-fixing-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-screen-flickerdistortion/ [06:54] try that [06:56] I don't have an i915 chipset. o.o [07:00] also, I'm starting to lose faith that this fix I've been pursuing with regard to powermizer is the right one... I do not have compiz running, and they say that that's what causes the problem they're fixing :/ [07:00] Rask: It's a power setting === sean is now known as Guest47279 [07:03] Oh well, what can it hurt [07:03] * Rask tries [07:04] \o/ [07:07] ...Wow. [07:07] Okay, moving the selection bar in GRUB makes things flicker [07:08] ugh [07:09] I am about to give up [07:09] Rebooted and still flickers? [07:09] what card do you have? [07:09] an on-board geforce 7100 (Zotac board) [07:10] How the hell do you make the screen flicker in GRUB? o__o [07:13] gpm? [07:13] GPM? [07:13] By the way did you ask in #ubuntu ? [07:13] Moving too fast to get a word in edgeewise :( [07:15] Seriously though... what could cause graphical glitching in GRUB of all things? It's just text, there's no reason for this. [07:16] yeah that's kinda strange [07:16] What kinda flicker? [07:17] whole screen glitches for a split second and then recovers [07:17] so not like a TV flicker or a resolution change? [07:17] the fonts bugs out? [07:18] Well... [07:18] Nah, it's more a TV flicker [07:18] you can see the screen image offset from where it's supposed to be for a second, along with some messed-upness [07:18] and it does this how often? [07:22] hi , i want to develop code for kde-edu application , where I have to start ? [07:23] sri13: techbase.kde.org [07:24] Daskreech: Every single time you move the selection bar up or down. [07:26] Daskreech: But techbase , they are giving 4 options like nightly build , master .... , which one i have to choose ? [07:26] I'm just utterly baffled. [07:26] Rask: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates [07:26] Confused, what am I doing there? o.o [07:27] This is in GRUB, before I even load Ubuntu [07:27] sri13: if you are doing something up to date you want trunk [07:27] Rask: Right go into ubuntu and run that command [07:28] Okay, but what is it going to do? o.o [07:28] sri13: You can ask in #kde-edu as well [07:28] Rask: it will add a new repository to download updates from [07:28] Okay, done [07:28] What next? [07:29] sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install nvidia-current nvidia-current-modaliases nvidia-settings [07:30] Daskreech: I want to develop the application Rocs , so which one I want to choose ? [07:30] Okay, retrieving, but what is all of this going to do, as a whole? [07:33] Rask: it will install a customised older set of drivers that should work better for your chipset [07:33] sri13: trunk should be fine [07:34] Last time I installed nvidia-common, I tried to modprobe it and it said device not found. Should I be worried? :B [07:35] Daskreech: Thanks , I wuill follow the instructions there , :) [07:36] sri13: :) #kde-devel will help if you get stuck [07:36] Rask: where did you install it from? [07:36] Point, [07:36] Point.* [07:36] I don't understand what that is [07:36] I mean, you have a point. :B [07:40] I still don't get it but ok :) [07:40] at least that's the first thing I thought of when you said it :) [07:40] ok, that's done. [07:40] What shall I do next? [07:43] Daskreech: [07:44] Rask: Umm [07:44] reboot? [07:44] heeeeeeeere we go [07:46] nope [07:46] still flickertastic === nikhil_away is now known as nikhil_ [07:48] Any other ideas up your sleeve? :( [07:52] I'm starting to believe this is a hardware problem. [07:52] Rask: seems widespread enough for me to think it's not [07:53] kdesudo nvidia-settings [07:53] Well, how's this for a hitch [07:53] I never thought to look before, but [07:53] the windows startup screen flickers too. [07:53] yeah it's power cycling I'm guessing [07:53] power cycling? [07:54] it's a problem with the nvidia drivers just trying to figure out how to shut that off [07:54] But this comes up in text mode. o.o That shouldn't make the GPU upshift at all. [07:54] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/nvidia-7100-unknown-chipset-613160/ [07:55] Yeah that's really weird [08:00] http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1471861.html might help [08:02] Well, thanks for your efforts, but I think this compy is obsolete anyway and maybe it's time I stimulate the economy. >_< [08:02] ha ha :) [08:03] or have it do soething you don't hav to look at [09:16] morning... does anyone have experience using Transmission? [09:18] gorgonzola: i'm using it at the moment [09:19] ? [09:19] gorgonzola: sorry mis-auto-completion :) [09:20] it was meant to somebody who left [09:20] ok. np === murphy_ is now known as 16SAAASA7 [11:26] * 16SAAASA7 ñêîðî áóäó: Gone away for now [11:35] hello [11:36] i'm trying to deal with QWebView in my qt project, according to : http://www.mail-archive.com/kubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg31555.html [11:36] the widget is missing from the widget palette, and it's true, what i can do ?? [11:37] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtwebkit-source/+bug/674367 [11:37] Ubuntu bug 674367 in qtwebkit-source (Ubuntu) "QWebView widget missing in designer." [Undecided,Confirmed] [11:37] :'( === 16SAAASA7 is now known as murphy_ [11:40] * murphy_ ÿ ñíîâà òóò!. === MuzerAway is now known as Muzer [12:21] salve? [12:21] azmodeus: ? [12:21] ??? [12:21] azmodeus: what's the problem ? [12:21] doh... nothing... [12:22] what is this? [12:23] azmodeus: are you italian? [12:23] yep [12:23] !it | azmodeus [12:23] azmodeus: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi « /join #ubuntu-it » senza virgolette) [12:24] =) thx... [12:59] hi [12:59] i want to install kscreenshot, in what package i can found this? [13:07] wmp: hi [13:07] wmp: ksnapshot [13:09] Peace-: thx [13:11] Howdy [13:11] BluesKaj: bien [13:12] <-- bien aussi [13:12] xDù [13:15] got a few kde4.6 issues with plasma panel /desktop effects...herky jerky when changing desktop windows [13:16] BluesKaj: driver video ah? [13:43] ho questo tipo di errore http://paste.ubuntu.com/569613/ come posso risolvere? [13:50] !it | frigOvuotO [13:50] frigOvuotO: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi « /join #ubuntu-it » senza virgolette) [14:14] ciao ragazzi! [14:14] A chi mi posso rivolgere per dei problemini tecnici? [14:15] !it | roger__ [14:15] roger__: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi « /join #ubuntu-it » senza virgolette) [14:15] Grazie a te! [14:23] hello guys why my KDEnlive crashes a lot [14:23] is someone here?? [14:23] helo [14:23] good morning [14:24] bazhang, r u there? [14:24] induz: good morning. did you check bug reports ? === mren|off is now known as mren [14:25] slug, what is that [14:26] induz: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting [14:26] after downloading kbuntu with ubuntu why my system is slow [14:26] induz: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs [14:26] induz: what's your system specs? [14:27] induz: CPU, RAM, disk [14:27] intell p4 with 1 gb mem [14:27] and 30gb hd for dual booting Xp [14:27] Ubuntu is set to grow as it can [14:28] induz: why you say it's slow? [14:28] induz: 1gb for video editing is not that much [14:28] cpu=p4 Intel pentiu, 1Gb Mem, 80Gb Hdd [14:28] kdenlive crashes [14:28] induz: does it allow you to create a stack trace? [14:28] I have desktop not laptop [14:29] yes i can reload with saved project but [14:29] induz: that's not what i mean [14:29] sometimes i lose the editing [14:29] did you read the URL i sent you? [14:29] stack trace?? [14:30] i am reading the website u sent me side by side [14:31] is 1gb MEM is not good for kbuntu as i was fine with Gnome and ubuntu [14:31] i installed KDE caz of kdenlive [14:31] induz: if you are editing videos, 1GB probably is not enough. [14:32] induz: do you have any swap? [14:32] induz: 1gig is enough for kubuntu... but video editing is very memory intense and you really should get more ram if you want to do that [14:33] james147, i can not go more than 2gb i guess in the current system...but I just want to do simple cut2cut [14:33] not video effects [14:33] i think when i installed ubuntu after Xp, it created some SWAP [14:33] induz: what version of kubuntu are you using? [14:34] james, how do i find out from Gnome ubuntu about kbuntu? [14:34] I dont want to log-relog [14:35] induz: if they are on the same install (ie you installed kubuntu-desktop from ubuntU) [14:35] then run "lsb_release -a" [14:36] it says no lsb, but ubuntu 10.4 [14:36] I am running Lucid after upgrading from karmic [14:36] yes Kbuntu is on same install [14:37] * james147 suggests upgrading to maverick (10.10), kde espically kdenlive has improved allot in that verion [14:37] 10.04.2 LTS [14:37] induz, it's called kubuntu , not kbuntu [14:38] james147, I am scared as i had hell of time figuring my Dell USB wireless after upgrading to Lucid from karmic [14:39] BluesKaj, I didnt notice that, I though its k-buntu [14:39] as like u-buntu [14:39] induz: then i suggest you grab a live cd of 10.10 and see if it works [14:40] james147, as my system is way old, i dont want bloated OS with a lots of applications i dont know about [14:40] I have to get a DVD burner first [14:40] !usb [14:40] For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent [14:40] i mean a DVD disk [14:41] induz: i have both 10.04 and 10.10. 10.04 on my main laptop and 10.10 on other old desktop computers and it works fine. [14:41] induz: ^^ and why are you worring about bloat if you are dual booting with xp and have both gnome and kde installed? [14:41] induz: you don't need DVD, just grab the CD, or you can use a flash drive. look at usb-creator-kde [14:42] * james147 suggests NOT use the dvd... it really isnt needed by most people [14:42] induz: i mean, grab the CD .iso file, then use usb creator to install it into a flash drive, no need to burn a CD. [14:43] induz: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick [14:43] slug, james147 I am not worry about bloated OS, I am worried about my system being OLD [14:43] how old , induz ? [14:43] induz: then thats more of a reason to upgrade kubuntu to 10.10... the newer versions of kde are more stable/faster [14:43] I dont have a wireless PCI card, i use DEll USB car for wireless and there was no driver for that [14:44] induz: do what james147 told you, try with the live from the flash drive to see if works. [14:44] induz: which is why i suggest getting a livecd/usb and testing to see if it works on that [14:44] let me get a USB. do i have to format the USB for it to work as iso media [14:45] I have never used USB for bootup, but my system has that option at bootup\ [14:46] induz: use usb-creator [14:46] Thanks james and slug, i will follow your suggestions [14:46] induz: check the last URL i sent you [14:46] slug, I am reading that site [14:48] slug, is the USB drive has to have just the .iso of 10.10Ubuntu or it can also have other files on it [14:48] I have this USB which has some other files and doc files on it [14:49] induz: backup the contents to you harddrive first [14:49] induz: you need to use usb-creator, you cannot just put the file there. [14:49] induz: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick#Creating a bootable Ubuntu USB flash drive [14:50] induz: [14:50] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick#Creating%20a%20bootable%20Ubuntu%20USB%20flash%20drive ^^ [14:52] slug, it says;'making it bootable will destroy all pre-existing files on the USB drive!" [14:52] induz: yeah [14:52] I have to backup my data first [14:53] induz: you will need an empty USB flash drive. [14:53] I have buy that then [14:53] i understood th concept now [14:55] what should i install KuBuntu or ubuntu 10.10?? [14:55] induz: sudo apt-get install unetbootin [14:55] I want to have wine for words[ms] and kdenlive [14:56] unetbootin?? [14:56] unthat make usb bootable sudo apt-get install unetbootin [14:57] Peace-: also usb-creator-kde ^^ which is installed by default and works nicer with kubuntu [14:57] james147: mmm sometimes that software got strange problems here [14:57] james147: i guess unetbootin is more complete software [14:57] * james147 found the opposite ^^ [14:58] james147: :S [14:58] induz: libreoffice doesn't fit for you? instead of words? [14:58] at least on later version of usb-creator.. the eairler ones where abit iffy [14:58] Should i install 10.10 or Kubuntu [14:58] kubuntu = ubuntu + kde destkop [14:58] in a easy way... [14:58] I have OO office but there is some problems with MS words files [14:59] induz: nether, test to see if your wireless works on the liveusb, if it dose then upgrade your install [14:59] Peace-: kubuntu = ubuntu + kde - gnome ^^ [14:59] Thanks james147 I got u [14:59] I have ubuntu=KDE and Gnome right now [15:00] only problem is i have to relog [15:00] Ok guys thanks [15:00] i am off to get a USB drive [15:01] hello [15:01] james147: xD -gnome xD [15:01] :D [15:01] need some help configuring file sharing.... [15:01] admin1: samba? [15:01] admin1: install samba [15:02] just did, sharing shows up, but all I can see is userid and password, [15:02] admin1: sudo apt-get install unetbootin [15:02] admin1: sorry [15:02] admin1: try installing "kdenetwork-filesharing" [15:02] admin1: http://nowardev.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/kubuntu-904-windows-share-with-samba/ [15:03] james147: mm? really try it xD [15:03] installed kdenetwork... [15:03] ;( [15:03] admin1: read my article edit the file [15:03] admin1: and you should get the stuff [15:04] ^^ editing the smb.conf file might be easier then navgating the samba inerface for kde though ^^ :D [15:04] thank you very much...been at this for TWO DAYS!!! [15:05] peace = do I have to make a new folder if i am trying to share an entire 2TB drive? [15:06] admin1: nope ...just apply the stuff to your folder that you want share... [15:06] xD [15:06] muy buenas [15:06] thanks peace [15:06] alguien puede echarme una mano? [15:06] path = /home/robert/sharedfolder [15:07] please someone can help me? [15:07] admin1: if you see comments there a a user that has shared several folders... [15:07] admin1: path = /home/robert/download [15:07] !help | Tortola [15:07] Tortola: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [15:07] admin1: path = /home/robert/sharedfolder [15:08] sorry, my problem is: i cannot login automactly, i have problem with my gdmsetup [15:08] Tortola: gdm? [15:08] Tortola: this is kubuntu so kdm [15:08] xD [15:08] #ubuntu [15:08] file custom.conf i think is ok [15:08] ahhh sorry :) [15:13] peace - I have several users from several different windows PC's what should I do for valid users line [15:15] kde 4.6 and some of the new desktop/plasma themes and desktop effects aren't very compatible ..my desktop just froze using ctrl+f11 to rotate the cube [15:15] admin1: nothing, and add "guest ok = yes" and in the [global] section set "security = share" that will let anyone access your share without a password [15:16] admin1: alternitive to that you need to add each user to your computer, then register them with samba and add them all to the valid users line [15:17] okay, one last question: /media/COYOTE_DRIVE/ is this valid where /media is a folder on master and /coyote_drive/ is root of 2tb drive [15:18] I see 2tb in this path when i navigate [15:19] admin1: yes, use the path in which you can browse it... [15:19] valorie: Awwww :) [15:19] * Daskreech hugs [15:19] ^^ but make sure you use the right caplisation... all paths are case sensitive [15:19] rock on and I am deleteing the valid user line and replacing the text abov.e thanks a lot... [15:21] sorry i was out [15:21] i go out :P now bye bey james147 [15:22] have nice day everyone [15:22] see ya [15:22] thanks PEACE! === marco is now known as Guest32508 [15:26] James147 = why do I get command not found when I issue - sudo /etc/init.d/samba restart [15:26] admin1: try smbd [15:26] instead of samaba [15:27] ciao [15:27] !list [15:27] This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot » [15:28] the service command seems to be replacing etc/init.d lately ..I noticed that with init.d/networking [15:29] ubottu okay dude, give this 50 year old a break! I'm a dos guy trying to learn this stuff, help me get to the right place please [15:29] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [15:29] I am looking for a clean sans font like myriad pro, is there some free alternative? [15:30] admin1, as you probly observed , ubottu is an info/factoid botscript [15:31] vanguard_, dunno why look into truetype fonts , i think they're open source now [15:31] er whynot look [15:35] !pm | admin1 [15:35] and if you edited the /etc/samba/smb.conf file you dont need to use the gui dialog... which is alittle over complex :D.... is you share not showing up after you restart samba? [15:35] admin1: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first. [15:38] hello everyone [15:38] BluesKaj: are you there? [15:39] phoenix_firebrd, Hi ...did removing nepomuk break your setup ? [15:40] BluesKaj: no, i am happy that you still remeber that :) [15:41] I'm glad you didn't use the package manager , to do because most of kubuntu-dektop would have gone with it , phoenix_firebrd [15:41] to do so [15:41] BluesKaj: ya [15:42] BluesKaj: one small correction [15:42] that's why I don't use gui package managers === kubuntuadmin is now known as silur [15:42] phoenix_firebrd, ok ? [15:42] BluesKaj: i was not able to remove nepomuk, but removed virtuoso, so nepomuk doesnt start now [15:43] BluesKaj: as you said when i tried to uninstall nepomuk, it was pulling the whole installation [15:45] BluesKaj: how can i integrate kfind to dolphin? [15:45] did you try to start it system settings / startup&shutdown/service manager / startup services? [15:46] BluesKaj: i didnt try that, should i try that now? [15:47] phoenix_firebrd, whynot just add dolphin to your panel [15:47] well phoenix_firebrd , if it's listed you can start nepomuk [15:48] BluesKaj: no what i ment was then when i press ctrl+f, k find should open i the current directory [15:50] dunno, I'm not much on KB shortcuts , I just put apps that use frequently into the panel for quick access [15:51]