[02:09] <ojwb> anyone run mythtv/mythbuntu?  if so, what do you use to get listings info for more than just what's on right now?
[02:09] <ojwb> even the what's on right now doesn't seem to work for all channels for me
[02:09] <ojwb> with DVB-T currently, if that makes a difference
[02:10] <ojwb> though I have a DVB-S card to set up too
[04:24] <cloudy_nz> hi zapzupnz
[04:24] <zapzupnz> hello
[04:24] <cloudy_nz> how's life?
[04:25] <zapzupnz> Whimsical. Next week, back to uni. It'll finally be serious, again.
[04:25] <zapzupnz> You?
[04:25] <cloudy_nz> trying to motivate myself to learn more jQuery, lol
[04:26] <cloudy_nz> ah which uni do you go to? I went to Auckland
[04:28] <zapzupnz> Well, I don't go to uni - I go to EIT.
[04:28] <zapzupnz> I just call it uni because it's quicker to type than polytech. Plus, I've become accustomed to having to say that when people overseas look at me with a quizzical look as I say it.
[04:29] <cloudy_nz> lol
[04:29] <cloudy_nz> I went to a polytech too
[04:29] <cloudy_nz> it was called AIT, then it became AUT
[04:29] <zapzupnz> AUT has the advantage that it didn't extinguish the polytech aspect of it
[04:30] <cloudy_nz> heh heh, yeah it's all a bit stupid
[04:30] <cloudy_nz> polytech teaches you more practical stuff, while uni teaches more theoretical stuff
[04:31] <zapzupnz> Indeed.
[04:31] <zapzupnz> Polytechs are there to get you in to a job, essentially.
[04:31] <cloudy_nz> hmm yeah
[04:31] <zapzupnz> As for me, I'm not so fussed - I don't find I'm learning much - just want the certification, really.
[04:31] <cloudy_nz> I kind of wish polytech courses taught you a few things more in depth, rather than a lot of practical stuff only on the surface
[04:32] <zapzupnz> True
[04:32] <cloudy_nz> lol what are you studying?
[04:32] <zapzupnz> Bachelor of Computer Systems - covering programming, mostly, and system analysis
[04:33] <cloudy_nz> cool!
[04:33] <cloudy_nz> there aren't enough developers in NZ
[04:33] <zapzupnz> That's for sure
[04:33] <cloudy_nz> I got my programming job 2 weeks after graduating!
[04:34] <zapzupnz> It's disappointing to see how many shift to Australia, the UK, or the US
[04:34] <cloudy_nz> there's more money over there, lol
[04:34] <karora> A lot shift here too.
[04:34] <zapzupnz> Money, sure. If that's what your interest is.
[04:34] <cloudy_nz> are you going to get into .NET or Java?
[04:34] <karora> How many people in this channel were not born in NZ, do you think?
[04:34] <zapzupnz> I think we have it made, here.
[04:35] <zapzupnz> Well, we learned with .NET and Java - but I don't intend to stick to them in my immediate career.
[04:35] <cloudy_nz> oh, whatcha going to focus on?
[04:35] <zapzupnz> karora: not a clue, not a care. As long as they're here.
[04:35] <cloudy_nz> I am a python/php programmer
[04:35] <zapzupnz> I'm not sure.
[04:35] <cloudy_nz> lol
[04:35] <karora> zapzupnz: Where are you studying?
[04:36] <zapzupnz> karora: EIT Taradale
[04:36] <cloudy_nz> they are crying out for .NET developers in Auckland
[04:36] <cloudy_nz> Java is much harder to get a job in
[04:36]  * karora is currently doing Android dev in Java.
[04:36] <karora> There's still plenty of Java jobs.
[04:36] <cloudy_nz> ...unless it's Android Java, lol
[04:36] <zapzupnz> Android and servers still have demand. But that's not me.
[04:37] <cloudy_nz> people at my work don't like Java, they say it leads to large, difficult projects that never get finished
[04:37] <karora> Scripting languages are better, so long as the environment isn't constrained.
[04:37] <cloudy_nz> mobile apps might be better
[04:38] <zapzupnz> Mobile app projects get as big as any other
[04:38] <karora> Anything at all can lead to large, difficult projects that never get finished.
[04:38] <cloudy_nz> not in python! (yay)
[04:38] <karora> It's more likely to be a consequence of who the development is being done for than what language it is done in.
[04:38] <karora> Yes, even in python.
[04:38] <zapzupnz> Anything is susceptible to it - bad planning
[04:38] <karora> INCIS in python would still have failed.
[04:38] <cloudy_nz> well actually I saw a project using python and the YUI...that was not pretty, lol
[04:39] <zapzupnz> That's why you get these developers who don't plan, don't comment their code, don't visualise workflows, don't record issues and fixes … you feel like strangling them
[04:39] <cloudy_nz> back in 5
[04:45] <cloudy_nz> yeah lack of documentation is probably the worst thing I've faced
[04:46] <zapzupnz> Better to have too much than not enough
[04:46] <zapzupnz> For at least the excess can be thrown away :P
[04:46] <cloudy_nz> definitely
[04:46] <zapzupnz> But you can't magic extra documentation out of thin air
[04:46] <cloudy_nz> yeah, a good compiler or intrepreter totally ignores & excludes comments
[04:47] <zapzupnz> Such is the point of comments :P
[04:47] <cloudy_nz> I mean, use heaps of comments, because it won't cause any problems
[04:47] <zapzupnz> Yup
[04:48] <cloudy_nz> so where you going to live when you graduate, zapzupnz ?
[04:48] <zapzupnz> I'm going to stay where I am, for a while, in Napier.
[04:48] <cloudy_nz> ah ok
[04:48] <zapzupnz> Perhaps eventually I'll move to Wellington. Who knows?
[04:48] <cloudy_nz> I hear it's difficult to find a job there unless you know people
[04:48] <cloudy_nz> Wellington rocks! They have a dynamic Python UG there
[04:49] <zapzupnz> If I cared about Python, I'd probably go.
[04:49] <cloudy_nz> the pycon is there in August
[04:49] <zapzupnz> lol
[04:49] <zapzupnz> In fact, I'd go anyway.
[04:49] <zapzupnz> Never hurts to learn about what's what, does it?
[04:49] <cloudy_nz> my cousin & his wife tried to find a job in Napier, but he could only get one in forestry he didn't like
[04:50] <cloudy_nz> yeah, I did 3 C# exams, and that hurt a lot!
[04:50] <zapzupnz> Luckily in the last year of the degree I'm doing, you get to do work ex - and normally it's in Wellington.
[04:50] <zapzupnz> But then, it depends on the expertise.
[04:51] <zapzupnz> I don't want to go to Auckland - I don't know it, and don't care to learn it.
[04:51] <cloudy_nz> yeah don't come here, lol
[04:51] <cloudy_nz> go to Welly, where everything is cool
[04:52] <zapzupnz> Cool is right. Bloody freezing. But at least I have friends there.
[04:52] <cloudy_nz> they have trendy artist & poet types, and people don't just care about money
[04:52] <cloudy_nz> all anyone cares about in Auckland is money & property
[04:52] <zapzupnz> Gosh, sounds like Auckland would be the better place. o.o
[04:52] <cloudy_nz> from what I hear, Welly pays better too
[04:53] <cloudy_nz> all the government offices are down there, paying contractors big $$$
[04:53] <zapzupnz> Bleh, boring stuff.
[04:54] <zapzupnz> It sucks that the best paying stuff is boring.
[04:54] <cloudy_nz> yeah, .NET & Oracle is boring
[04:54] <cloudy_nz> but who cares when you earn $80 an hour? hehe
[04:54] <zapzupnz> That's money talking. :P
[04:55] <zapzupnz> Provided I can pay the bills, I don't care about the money - just so long as what I does makes me happy
[04:55] <zapzupnz> And boring != happy
[04:55] <zapzupnz> Boring == boring
[04:57] <cloudy_nz> when you have a family to support, money becomes a whole lot more important
[04:57] <cloudy_nz> lol
[04:57] <zapzupnz> I doubt that'll happen
[04:58] <cloudy_nz> yeah, I suppose I could have looked for a better paying C# job rather than python
[04:58] <cloudy_nz> but OSS is so much more interesting
[04:58] <cloudy_nz> guess I have the same attitude, hehe
[04:58] <zapzupnz> :D
[04:59] <zapzupnz> As long as there's a roof on your head and food on the table and bills paid, all is well. <3
[05:00] <zapzupnz> And besides
[05:00] <zapzupnz> Who'd not want to be doing what they REALLY love as their job? :P
[05:01] <cloudy_nz> yeah that's true
[05:01] <cloudy_nz> I've seen some unhappy Microsoft developers, hehe
[05:01] <zapzupnz> hehe, yup
[05:23]  * cloudy_nz goes to eat pizza for dinner
[05:23] <zapzupnz> nom nom
[06:28] <ojwb> who says you need to live anywhere near the people you work for?
[06:28] <ojwb> live in NZ, get paid at the rate in a different country...
[18:31] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:44] <snail1> ibeardslee: sorry i didn't notice you on the bus, i wasn't really awake
[18:46] <ibeardslee> yeah that's ok .. I figured that was the case
[18:47] <ibeardslee> just as well you were further back .. you cuoldn't see the tears of rejection ;)
[18:51] <ajmitch> morning
[19:39] <snail1> if i'm not awake enough to notice you, I can't imagine my conversation is scintillating at that time of the morning anyway...
[20:52] <thumper> morning
[21:40] <chilts> morning
[22:02] <mwhudson> morning
[22:55] <karora> morning :-)
[22:56] <mwhudson> sneaky
[23:21] <G> anyone here had trouble getting those Advanced Electricity Meters installed?