[10:44] <Sysi> newest (yesterday 19.) daily is missing nm-applet
[13:19] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, pidgin is really unusable in natty
[13:20] <ochosi> mr_pouit: installing xfce4-indicator-plugin and adding it to the panel doesn't make pidgin show up
[13:20] <ochosi> mr_pouit: it doesn't seem to have any extra dependencies and only one recommend (messages)
[13:21] <mr_pouit> yeah, then you probably need indicator-messages
[13:21] <ochosi> crap, then we always have the stupid "email"-icon in the systray-region...
[13:22] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, with indicator-messages it works
[13:22] <ochosi> mr_pouit: does thunderbird at least integrate with that?
[13:23] <mr_pouit> micahg might know that
[13:24] <ochosi> seems that by default it's not in the message-menu
[13:24] <mr_pouit> ochosi: is there an option in pidgin to use the systray?
[13:24] <ochosi> good question, i'll have a look
[13:24] <mr_pouit> then we could ship a default config in xubuntu-default-settings for that
[13:25] <ochosi> hah, yeah there is
[13:25] <ochosi> and it still works
[13:25] <ochosi> it's just deactivated by default
[13:26] <ochosi> wondering whether there are any other apps (transmission?) that use indicators by default
[13:26] <ochosi> also xchat is a possible candidate
[13:27] <ochosi> oh dear, transmission also doesn't show up in the systray
[13:28] <ochosi> i mean it still works as an application since its systray-icon is deactivated by default, so closing the window exits the app
[13:28] <ochosi> but it's still a loss of functionality, and the systray-option in transmission simply doesn't work (even with the indicator-plugin)
[13:29] <mr_pouit> now you understand the "I don't care, I'm THE ubuntu gtk desktop" attitude ;>
[13:29] <ochosi> yuck
[13:30] <ochosi> well good catch on your side though, at least we still have some (even if little) time
[13:31] <ochosi> xchat still works btw
[13:31] <ochosi> i mean: as expected
[13:32] <Sysi> side note: we still have gigolo in natty default installation, shouldn't be needed anymore
[13:32] <mr_pouit> Sysi: no, it's still useful
[13:32] <mr_pouit> because you can't bookmark remote locations in thunar
[13:33] <ochosi> mr_pouit: the resize-grip overlays the account-image in pidgin's right lower corner :)
[13:33] <Sysi> alright 
[13:34] <ochosi> hm, we also still have vinagre installed even though i have no clue why
[13:34] <mr_pouit> remote desktop thing
[13:34] <ochosi> yep
[13:34] <ochosi> but: why?
[13:34] <mr_pouit> maybe we can remove it, i've no idea if someone actually uses it
[13:34] <knome> remote desktop viewer? vinagre?
[13:35] <ochosi> charlie-tca: could you make that a point of discussion in the next meeting: discussion whether to keep/remove vinagre by default?
[13:35] <knome> i do use that :)
[13:36] <knome> though, i don't see much need to install it by default
[13:37] <ochosi> yep
[13:37] <ochosi> mr_pouit: is there anything we can do to make thunar start up faster?
[13:37] <ochosi> i know we discussed this a few times already but the issue is still there
[13:37] <mr_pouit> I don't think so =[
[13:37] <ochosi> awwhh...
[13:38] <ochosi> that's really bad, because everyone will notice that
[13:38] <mr_pouit> it depends on something gvfs related
[13:38] <mr_pouit> it starts fast in a vm for me, but is very slow on my normal system
[13:38] <Sysi> deleting files is also slower now
[13:39] <Sysi> i haven't noticed that startup lag badly
[13:39] <Sysi> ..it is slow, at least some times
[13:39] <ochosi> mr_pouit: do you think it makes sense to contact jannis about it? (or have you already?)
[13:41] <mr_pouit> he's already aware of that afaik
[13:42] <ochosi> k
[13:48] <ochosi> mr_pouit: not sure what we should do, either add xfce4-indicator-plugin by default or set pidgin to use the trayicon
[13:48] <ochosi> (the fact that transmission's trayicon is gone really sucks independantly of that)
[13:58] <ochosi> mr_pouit: exo-default menu-items and launchers work and look great so far, just tested them again with a clean user
[13:58] <mr_pouit> nice, thanks for testing
[13:59] <ochosi> np
[14:59] <charlie-tca> ochosi: added to agenda
[15:00] <ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks
[15:01] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi : I thought I read that Xfce 4.10 will use xfce4-indicator-plugin by default. If so, shouldn't we look at switching to it and get people used to that thing?
[15:01] <charlie-tca> Could be failing to remember too, though
[15:01] <ochosi> hm, if that's true then that could be a good argument to add it to the panel
[15:01] <ochosi> but i don't remember hearing anything like that
[15:02] <charlie-tca> maybe mr_pouit knows for sure. I don't want to do it if it isn't going to there.
[15:05] <mr_pouit> it's not in the 4.10 roadmap so I wouldn't count on indicator support to be added to the panel
[15:06] <charlie-tca> oh, then it is failing memory :-)
[15:06] <mr_pouit> xfce4-indicator-plugin is available anyway, and improvements/bugfixes are probably welcome
[15:21] <Sysi> we still use system-config printer gnome instead of xfprint4?
[15:21] <mr_pouit> xfprint4 is deprecated and unmaintained
[15:21] <mr_pouit> only mousepad still uses it I think
[15:22] <Sysi> ah
[15:22] <Sysi> it's pretty hard to eep track on things when distroes do everything differently
[15:28] <knome> eep eep eep!
[15:29] <knome> EEP!
[15:32] <ochosi> :)
[16:46] <micahg> ochosi: I think chrisccoulson will be working on messaging integration, but idr if that's this cycle or next cycle
[19:03] <ochosi> micahg: right, atm there doesn't seem to be ootb integration for thunderbird
[19:03] <ochosi> in fact for me that would be an argument not to integrate the indicator-plugin
[19:03] <ochosi> but we can discuss that thursday
[19:05] <charlie-tca> If we are not going to see the indicator pluin in 4.10, we are spinning our wheels debating it at all. 
[19:05] <ochosi> well the plugin will be there, just (maybe) no native support in the panel
[19:06] <ochosi> tbh i prefer the plugin solution to native panel support
[19:06] <charlie-tca> Then the user can install it, right?
[19:06] <ochosi> not all distros have/use the indicators
[19:06] <ochosi> yep
[19:07] <ochosi> we can even decide to install it by default but not add it to the panel by default (much like verve or dict)
[19:07] <ochosi> that would make it easier for users who decide they want/need the indicators
[19:08] <micahg> indicator support should come next cycle as we consider moving Ubuntu to Thunderbird as a default
[19:08] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I don't understand what you mean. We already have several panel plugins in the default install
[19:08] <mr_pouit> and they are not part of the panel
[19:09] <charlie-tca> I am thinking way ahead, will the plugin be maintained by the time 4.10 hits? If we put it in the panel, and it doesn't keep up, what happens?
[19:10] <ochosi> that could theoretically happen to any plugin
[19:10] <charlie-tca> true
[19:10] <charlie-tca> kind of like "places", I guess
[19:11] <ochosi> yeah, much like that
[19:12] <charlie-tca> okay, if it needs discussion, add it to the agenda, otherwise, let mr_pouit decide
[19:15] <ochosi> hm, the main thing that bugs me about the indicator-plugin is that it seemingly doesn't work for stuff like transmission
[19:15] <ochosi> that suggests that other apps might just as well not work
[19:15] <ochosi> and with transmission it's really a pity, that they patched away the systray-support
[23:21]  * surreal7z is away: rolling a joint