/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/21/#ubuntu-arm.txt

=== zumbi|eislusft is now known as zumbi
=== asac_ is now known as asac
danderscooloney_, ping05:48
cooloney_danders: hey, man05:49
danderscooloney_, hey bud05:49
cooloney_danders: you changed your nickname here?05:49
dandersdoh05:49
dandersjust reloaded a pc at the house05:49
dandersforgot to change my nick05:49
=== danders is now known as prpplague
prpplaguecooloney_, hey you know a matt copeland in stitsville ?05:50
cooloney_cooloney_: oh, no, don't know that05:51
prpplaguecooloney_: there is a matt copeland on your linkedin.com contacts that is in the ottawa area05:52
cooloney_prpplague: oh, god. actually, i might not know everyone on my linkedin.com05:52
prpplaguecooloney_: hehe05:52
cooloney_prpplague: did he contact with you? or make you unconfortable?05:53
prpplaguecooloney_: hehe, no, its a personal matter, just a weird item that his linkedin page showed that he was connected via you to me05:53
cooloney_prpplague: np, let me check my linkedin.05:54
prpplaguecooloney_: see /msg05:54
prpplaguecooloney_: bizarre sunday evening05:55
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=== amitk is now known as amitk-afk
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=== XorA|gone is now known as XorA
XorAmorning12:44
XorAis the panda es1.0 still supported without hacks?13:31
ograno13:40
ograit never was supported in a release13:40
ogramaverick beta should run on it13:40
ograbut es1.0 support was dropped after beta13:40
persiamaverick beta may be hard to find13:40
ograwhy ?13:40
ograshould be on the cdimage server13:41
persiaOld betas get deleted without announcement13:41
ograbah13:41
ograk13:41
ograyeah, its gone13:41
XorAbecause I have an ES1.0 board lying around13:41
persiaWell, if you can find a suitable kernel patch that makes that work as well as the production models, without regression..13:42
* XorA lacks ubuntu capable hardware :-D13:43
ograXorA, i think rsalveti kept a x-loader and u-boot biary around soemwheer (i might misremember) but i dont know about the kernel patch13:53
XorAogra: x-loader/u-boot easy enough to frig up from somewhere13:54
XorAogra: I never used a Ubuntu generated one anyway13:54
persiaIf you have a kernel that works on it (even an old one), you can probably run for a while.13:54
ograthere is a counter builtin ?13:55
ogra(or why "for a while") ?13:55
ograjanimo, did you already take a look at nux ?13:55
* ogra notices that images are still failing 13:56
XorAif its more than 1/2 a days effort I probably wont attempt it, ES1.0 is missing a lot of functionality anyway13:56
persiaBecause as the kernel drifts, userspace tends to drift to match, and there is increasing potential for incompatibilities.13:56
* XorA has a convenient b1n to file old boards into13:56
ograpersia, oh, you talk about upgrading13:56
persiaSaving them up to deliver to the acid-etching folk for gold recovery?13:57
persiaogra: No, I talk about staying current.13:57
XorApersia: recycling place has a place for old electronic13:57
XorAwhat they do after that I dont know, probably illegally ship to africa or something13:57
janimoogra, yes, and have a merge request with the fix13:58
* ogra hugs janimo 13:58
ograawesome !!!13:58
* janimo hugs ogra13:58
ogra:)13:58
persiaWhen I ran a electronics reclamation agency (we'll haul by the half-pallet at no charge!), it was mostly a matter of removing the metals from the boards.  The chips were worthless and the boards indestructible.13:58
janimohowever a new nux needs toi be uploaded for unity to build against13:58
* XorA amusingly still has some form of ubuntu rootfs on the zoom314:01
persiaThat probably has better support14:01
XorAit does?14:02
persiaIt's omap3, right?14:02
XorAyeah, but until 2.6.38-rcX wasnt bootable in mainline14:02
janimoogra, persia I also filed a merge request for ubuntu-cdimage . No idea how to test that easily, it is mostly copying what is already there for the netbook project14:02
janimohttps://code.launchpad.net/~jani/ubuntu-cdimage/preinstalled-headless-arm14:02
persialinux-omap from natty is mainline 2.6.38-rcX14:02
XorApersia: ah, worth a look then, I can always file a defconfig update14:03
persiajanimo: Testing it requires setting up a complete image building environment.  My general recommendation is to leave it for the cdimage team to critique.14:03
persiaXorA: source package is "linux"14:03
XorApersia: board is 5 miles away and turned off at moment :-)14:03
janimopersia, indeed14:03
XorApersia: thanks for taking care of my friday, was awesome14:04
persiaXorA: Well then, when you have a couple hours :)14:04
janimobut I thought I'd let you too know14:04
persiaI'm glad you liked it.14:04
* XorA is less likely to kill all hardware designers now :-)14:04
persiajanimo: I'm confused by the case $PROJECT bit in etc/config: I wouldn't have expected you to add arch limitation there matching i386.  (I'm not cdimage, but I've looked at that code a bunch)14:06
* janimo checsk14:06
* persia is looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~jani/ubuntu-cdimage/preinstalled-headless-arm/+merge/5056814:07
janimopersia, I copied the case for ubuntu-netbook, that is unless ARCHES is set default to i38614:07
rsalvetiXorA: ogra: I should have the pointers to make a valid kernel for it14:07
janimoI assume for ubuntu-netbook ARCHES is set to armel14:08
rsalvetijust need to find at the irc log, many asked this when the es2.0 was out14:08
persiajanimo: Right.  I probably would have defaulted to armel in that case, for this image.  Doesn't matter that much.  Also, it's probably worth glancing at the -server or -desktop models, as examples where it pulls from a common seed (ubuntu)14:08
XorArsalveti: dont hunt too hard, I was just vageuly wondering, wont spend real work on it14:08
janimopersia, I saw not place except the germinate from seed file where I thought diverging from ubuntu-netbook would make sense14:08
persiaAh, OK.14:09
janimopersia, I am sure things can be done better, but not knowing the code and being aware it is full of legacy boobytraps I am not trying to do anything smart14:09
janimoI suppress my desire to cut and refactor stuff14:10
persiaI don't know if things can be done better, and my understanding is that this code mostly grows organically anyway.14:10
janimoyes, lots of organic weed too there14:10
persiaSomeone should probably refactor it at some point, but it's never a priority, and the risk of getting it wrong is fairly high.14:10
janimoright, probably Colin and a few others know what is safe to nuke but since few people work on it few are hindered by it as it is14:11
XorAthat sounds like a job for someone with asbestos pants14:11
* persia gets excited about libasound2 1.0.24.1-0ubuntu114:11
* XorA worries about persia 14:11
persiaXorA: Contains support for UCM14:12
* janimo google UCM14:12
persia(and just hit natty very recently)14:12
XorAah, good old Slimlogic product that :-)14:12
persiaYep14:12
* XorA thinks he has zero lines of code in there though, so dont blame me14:13
* XorA has had enough headaches with DAPM over the years to avoid UCM coding :-)14:14
rsalvetiXorA: http://paste.ubuntu.com/570052/14:15
rsalvetithis is for maverick14:15
XorArsalveti: cheers14:15
* XorA actually saw a mythical Pandora at FOSDEM14:19
ograjanimo, could you have NCommander review the debian-cd bits (or possibly cjwatson), i'm traveling this week and am happy if i get unity-2d done before FF14:26
janimoogra, sure it was more of a heads-up not a request for review14:27
ograjanimo, looking at it, you shouldnt put the image type into the flavour name14:27
janimoyou mean preinstalled?14:27
ograubuntu-preinstalled-headless should become ubuntu-headless instead14:28
janimoI was trying to be descriptive, some of the other project names are vague14:28
janimoand the project naming so far does not seem to follow a guideline, some are one others two words14:28
persiavague is good in terms of product naming: it provides semantic flexibility14:29
ograwhat if i want a d-i ios with ubuntu-headless on it =14:29
ogra?14:29
ogra*iso14:29
persiaThey are all transitioning towards two words.14:29
ografor-project is invoked with the type attached usually14:29
persiaSo images end up being some combination of ${BRAND} ${PRODUCT} ${TYPE}14:30
persiae.g. "Xubuntu Desktop Preinstalled"14:30
* persia isn't sure that one will ever exist, but as an example14:30
ografor-project <flavour> <imagetype>14:30
ograi.e.14:30
ografor-project ubuntu-headless cron.daily-preinstalled14:31
ograor a headless live image:14:31
ografor-project ubuntu-headless cron.daily-live14:31
janimopersia, well in source code I prefer descriptivness over vagueness :)14:32
ograthe flavour naming goes beyond source code ... thats the point14:33
persiaIndeed, and as Brands and Products get more important in terms of advocacy, this trend will only continue.14:33
ograif you ever create a d-i iso or a dvd with headless they would be called *-preinstalled14:33
janimoI am happy with any name actually just to get this spec done and have headless images14:33
janimo:)14:33
ograright, just remove the type14:34
persiaYou want ubuntu-headless (${BRAND}-${PRODUCT})14:34
ograthe rest looks actually fine14:34
ograyou could s/preinstalled/chicken/14:35
ogra*g*14:35
janimoI'll do that :)14:35
ograthat would result in ubuntu-chicken-headless images14:35
janimopigeon14:35
persiaPlease don't.14:35
ograyeah, even better :)14:35
persiaPlease pick a vaguely descriptive product name ("Headless" is good)14:35
ograand chicken-headless isnt ?14:35
XorAyou all running around random like?14:36
ogra:)14:36
persiavague is good, but too vague requires PR coordination, which tends to cause headaches, joint pain, and premature drowsiness in coders.14:36
persia(and I refuse to help with PR coordination for any product with a fowl name)14:36
=== lilstevi is now known as lilstevie
=== npitre_ is now known as npitre
sveinsersalveti, you around?17:03
rsalvetisveinse: yup17:14
sveinseWhat's the story about powervr-omap3 ?17:15
sveinseI'm uncertain if I should build my own or use the package17:15
rsalvetisveinse: well, using the one available at our repo should be fine17:16
rsalvetithere's a newer version, that still didn't have time to test17:16
rsalvetibut the changelog didn't say much, and says it wasn't tested with x1117:16
sveinseI glanced briefly at it... The package contains (as usual) a lot of build output files :(17:16
sveinseand repeated files17:17
rsalvetiyeah =\17:17
sveinseI managed to compress a 600M tar.gz to a 150M git repo, which clearly indicates that the same file is repeated many times17:17
rsalvetisveinse: and were you able to test it?17:18
sveinseNo, not yet. But I will in the next two weeks or so17:18
rsalvetiif you say it's better I can try to update it17:18
sveinse..on 353017:19
rsalvetiok, should be fine17:19
sveinseBut it hasn't been approved for mainline yet, have it?17:19
sveinseI remember some issues with udev permissions17:19
sveinse*sigh* it's quite an effort finding the useful/needed files from the "build junk". I have to admit I'm a little surprised by the state of the package they release17:24
rsalvetisveinse: to include it at ubuntu we should be fine, but first I'd like to make sure it runs well with x1117:28
rsalvetisveinse: and it's better than what we had in the past17:28
persiaOught test quick: FF is Thursday17:28
ograFF exceptions are just paperwork though17:29
persiaThey're more than that: extra testing precautions, assertions of quality, etc.17:30
sveinseI'm not working towards X11. I'm targeting Qt/QWS, so I won't be testing X11. Sorry17:30
rsalvetipersia: even for universe/multiverse?17:30
rsalvetisveinse: that's fine, if it works for you is already something17:31
rsalvetithen I can test with x11 later17:31
ograpersia, indeed implying that you do the testing etc before asking for them17:31
persiarsalveti: Yep.  universe and main aren't really that different.  The only meaningful bit is the code review part of the MIR, in my opinion.17:31
rsalvetipersia: ok, that's fine17:32
sveinseis the powervr license compatible for multiverse? I know I accepted an license for downloading it, but admit not reading it...17:32
rsalvetisveinse: if the newer version has the same license as the one we already have at multiverse, then we're fine17:32
rsalvetibut the package is total mess hehe17:33
sveinseoh indeed times 1017:33
XorAheh I should fix that :-)17:36
XorAno idea who to send the patches to though17:36
ograXorA, to rsalveti17:37
rsalvetiand I need to find who to send then :-)17:38
rsalvetisgx-omap 4 people are not the same from sgx-omap 317:38
* XorA is probably not supposed to stil have the source code though17:38
persiaEveryone who wants to be pvr-omap3 upstream, please raise your hand17:39
XorAIm surprised anyone still making omap3 packages17:39
XorAwith TIs history of abandonment17:39
sveinseI really hope that isn't true. We're working on a prototype product based on OMAP3 and are waiting for kernel features to be implemented17:41
sveinseLike USB OTG for AM3517 and similar17:41
persiasveinse: The rules are probably a little different for silicon customers compared to volunteer projects17:42
XorAsveinse: will be different if your buying chips17:42
XorAsveinse: but for us, omap3 is effectively dead17:43
XorAsveinse: apart from small team at ASP who do beagle17:43
persiaWell, at least the parts dependent on binary blobs17:43
sveinseIt depends. Unfortunately we're competing (sizewise) agains the mobile industry. As an industrial mfg. we are a drop in the ocean in the big picture17:44
persiasveinse: The comparison we usually consider is more the difference between buying one more beagleboard  or overo, so your scale is hugely larger in that sense.17:44
lilsteviepersia: solved that issue with X and touch17:45
lilstevieit was the driver17:45
persialilstevie: Cool!  You have a patch?17:45
* XorA would just need TI permission to work on subject, already got the NDAs17:45
vstehleXorA, rsalveti: if you send me patches I can try to "route" them inside TI (to ASP folks, maybe).17:45
vstehle(pvr patches, that is)17:46
sveinsepersia, yes. The interesting note that the factor between you and us are probably in the same order of magnitude between us and the mobile industry17:46
XorAanyway it is time to get bus home17:46
=== XorA is now known as XorA|gone
rsalvetivstehle: do you have the pointers to where I can get the omap 3 code?17:47
XorA|gonevstehle: I keep forgetting you still hang here :-)17:47
rsalvetivstehle: would be nice if we could get some bugs fixed, like the soname and etc, but then I'm not sure if I can have access17:47
persiasveinse: Sure, but it's probably threshold between "spare time" vs. "low-priority funded project" :)17:47
rsalvetior work on it17:47
lilsteviepersia: no17:47
vstehleI hang "more" since I setup some highlight keywords :)17:47
persialilstevie: No patch required?17:47
lilsteviepersia: the evdev driver isnt compatible with the type of touch panel17:47
lilstevieswitching to mtev solved it17:48
lilstevieon the galaxy tab we now have unaccelerated graphics, touch wifi17:48
persiaIn that case, you need to fiddle the udev rules, and it's all good.17:48
vstehlersalveti: I am not sure where the sources are. I think folks like koen use the DDK1.6 w/o DRM, currently.17:48
vstehlekoen would be my first bet :)17:49
rsalvetivstehle: yeah, will try to ping him17:49
lilstevieaparently sound can be achieved with a little fiddling17:49
rsalvetiI forget he's also TI now17:49
rsalveti:-)17:49
lilsteviegraphics are going to be the hardest though17:49
persialilstevie: From our experiences with sound, 99% of the issue is driver bugs, which often aren't solved because it's far too easy to fiddle userspace.17:50
lilstevieyeah17:50
lilsteviepersia: from what the guy said who got sound it was fiddling that got it to work17:50
lilstevieunfortunantly though graphics is SGX54-17:50
lilstevie540*17:51
persiaOnce the fiddling with asound.conf and pulse is done, there's usually enough information to fix the driver.17:51
persiaTalk to Samsung: they may be able to make a binary driver available (as TI does for the omap)17:52
lilsteviewe have the kernel binary17:52
persiaNo kernel source?17:52
lilsteviehell if you dive into nexus s kernel you have kernel source as well17:52
rsalvetiyou should be able to get at least the kernel source17:52
lilsteviewe dont have the pvr kernel module source17:53
persiaOh, kernel binary for graphics: yeah, you'll need a new one whenever the ABI changes though :(17:53
lilsteviethe soic is similar to the nexus s though17:53
lilstevieand that does have it as source17:53
lilsteviethere is talk about samsung open sourcing the driver Q4 201117:53
lilsteviealso something I have noticed17:54
lilstevieandroid RTC and what linux expects are different lol17:54
sveinsersalveti, which cpu's use the gfx_rel_es2.x since it's included in the opengles-sgx-omap package?18:04
rsalvetisveinse: old beagles, 343018:04
sveinseah, thanks18:04
akkDoes anyone know if the Ubuntu armel toolchain will work for the ARM chips in sheevaplugs (Marvell kirkwood)?20:13
akkI've been told it won't, but I'm having trouble finding anything describing what versions armel covers.20:15
suihkulokkiubuntu armel targets minimum armv7, kirkwood is armv520:16
akkThanks! Good to have a definite answer.20:16
armin76akk: http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=88520:28
armin76"Is there any hope that ubuntu will support armv5 in the future again?" <- lol20:29
akkHmm, that says Debian still supports it. Wonder if that's true, or if they just mean "because Debian won't release a new version for a long time"?20:30
armin76lol20:31
armin76akk: afaik debian has no plans to drop the support for armv4t, which is the minimum they support20:31
armin76suihkulokki: right?20:31
akkCool. I had assumed they didn't because of emdebian: http://emdebian.org/tools/crosstools.html20:33
akkwhich seems to be saying that you need that repo to get the cross-compilation tools.20:33
suihkulokkiarmin76: we might to got ARMv5t, if upstream gets flimsy on ARMv4t and the openmoko people don't fill in20:40
suihkulokkito got -> go to20:41
* XorA|gone hates mysql22:28
prpplaguefyi for anyone interested, TinCanTools will be doing a production run of RevB Trainer Boards, if anyone has feedback on changes needed please submit them by the end of the week http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBoard_Trainer , Trainer works with the PandaBoard as well22:43

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