| === erichammond1 is now known as erichammond | ||
| hemanth | kim0, hello [ i had few queries on cloud, on of the developers from canonical referred you ] | 05:54 |
|---|---|---|
| kim0 | hemanth: hey | 07:20 |
| hemanth | kim0, hey wanted your views on FOSS in cloud | 07:23 |
| flaccid | thats a broad question; i'm keen to hear the response :) | 07:23 |
| hemanth | RMS says, "It's worse than stupidity: it's a marketing hype campaign". | 07:26 |
| flaccid | the ignorant usually say incorrect things | 07:26 |
| hemanth | RMS is referring to private enterprise moneymaking cloud vendors | 07:27 |
| flaccid | well i don't even know what RMS is.. | 07:27 |
| hemanth | flaccid, "I respect Richard Stallman for the same reason I respect gravity. The man is a force of nature. He is like the iron core of the Earth: fixed, central, essential." | 07:28 |
| flaccid | and i work for a private enterprise cloud management platform heh | 07:28 |
| flaccid | meh | 07:28 |
| * hemanth waits for kim0 | 07:28 | |
| hemanth | flaccid, are there any cloud env which has the principals of free software? | 07:29 |
| flaccid | isn't that what UEC is/ubuntu cloud? | 07:29 |
| flaccid | still the company i work for has mostly free and open software | 07:30 |
| hemanth | flaccid, eucalyptus is one such; any other? | 07:30 |
| flaccid | well no such thing as a 'cloud env' to begin with | 07:31 |
| flaccid | you can look at xen, cloudstack, euca etc. for clouds | 07:31 |
| hemanth | flaccid, more over, most of the cloud vendors wont have the free-software philosophy | 07:31 |
| flaccid | still pretty broad | 07:31 |
| flaccid | define a cloud vendor? | 07:31 |
| hemanth | those who provide space on there servers, saying they have cloud hosting | 07:32 |
| flaccid | oh that could be any number of companies in the world thinking they do the cloud | 07:32 |
| hemanth | yup, if we give our data to them, we are locked in the proprietary cage | 07:34 |
| flaccid | i guess you might like to avoid that and choose a real public cloud | 07:35 |
| kim0 | hemanth: oh sorry .. was grabbing some coffee .. reading and replying | 07:36 |
| hemanth | kim0, ok :) | 07:36 |
| hemanth | flaccid, 'real public cloud', as in? | 07:37 |
| flaccid | e.g. amazon ec2 | 07:37 |
| hemanth | Public cloud services may be free or offered on a pay-per-usage model...hmm | 07:38 |
| kim0 | hmm hard question :) | 07:39 |
| kim0 | Personally I do respect RMS a lot and I can understand where he's coming from | 07:39 |
| kim0 | basically GNU has been fighting for so many years making sure, users have full control over their data and the programs to process their data | 07:40 |
| kim0 | now all of that is being taken away by cloud | 07:40 |
| hemanth | yup if RMS says something, there will be some strong reason behind it! | 07:40 |
| flaccid | how so? | 07:40 |
| hemanth | <hemanth> yup, if we give our data to them, we are locked in the proprietary cage | 07:41 |
| flaccid | can you explain how on a technical level? | 07:41 |
| kim0 | basically .. clou dto RMS I suppose means something like your data on facebook | 07:41 |
| kim0 | you have no control over your data there and not even the programs to process them | 07:41 |
| flaccid | thats incorrect. you have 100% control | 07:42 |
| flaccid | and you can choose whatever programs you want to access your data | 07:42 |
| flaccid | that sounds more like google apps or something.. | 07:42 |
| kim0 | was just gonna mention that | 07:43 |
| kim0 | google docs comes to mind as well | 07:43 |
| hemanth | yup, they backup all over data | 07:43 |
| hemanth | they have our data basically | 07:43 |
| erichammond | flaccid: Amazon/Facebook/Google can disable your access to your data at any time. Therefor you do not control it. | 07:43 |
| hemanth | even if we delete our account! | 07:43 |
| kim0 | and they can shows everything to the feds if they choose to | 07:43 |
| kim0 | same for FB | 07:44 |
| hemanth | they steal our data and sell it to someone else | 07:44 |
| flaccid | erichammond: sure. you can take it offsite as regular as you want. this is nothing new for a hosting provider. its actually in most of their ToS. | 07:44 |
| erichammond | Personally, I trust Amazon and Google with much of my personal and company data (with backups). RMS does not based on his statements. | 07:44 |
| flaccid | wherever you outsource your hosting of any kind, of course that provider is going to have control, nothing new there | 07:44 |
| hemanth | erichammond, i don't trust them either | 07:45 |
| kim0 | hemanth: with regards to UEC, it's a great way to run a EC2 compatble cloud using pure open source. Assuming you run it locally (private) RMS has nothing to fear | 07:46 |
| erichammond | hemanth: You don't use Amazon or Google? | 07:46 |
| hemanth | flaccid, yes, unless and until it's hosted by you, with your own machine, that data is not yours | 07:46 |
| kim0 | I for one use them and don't trust them | 07:46 |
| kim0 | I'm quite confident FB sells info on your online activity to governments | 07:46 |
| flaccid | hemanth: and you do realise you don't need cloud for that situation right? its always existed. you need to fork out for co-location which costs money.. | 07:47 |
| kim0 | twitters did the same during the Egyptian revolution days ago | 07:47 |
| kim0 | people rely on such closed systems and they fail them | 07:47 |
| erichammond | I treat what I put on Facebook as public information. | 07:47 |
| kim0 | erichammond: even private one to one communication | 07:48 |
| hemanth | erichammond, have you read about : "Nick Saber one day "came back from lunch to find out that he couldn't get into his Gmail account..." | 07:48 |
| erichammond | kim0: I don't use Facebook for private conversation. I move any contacts to email immediately. | 07:48 |
| flaccid | so hemanth you could just do co location hosting in a decent centre with your own private cloud | 07:48 |
| flaccid | and you would have no issues and zomg you are using the cloud! | 07:48 |
| erichammond | I host my own email. | 07:48 |
| kim0 | erichammond: well, so you're so careful, most people won't be :) | 07:48 |
| erichammond | but recommend Gmail for the rest of my family because they are so good at filtering spam :) | 07:49 |
| flaccid | i host my own email in the cloud and if they cancel my account, well i have regular off site backups which is a best practice for any situation | 07:49 |
| hemanth | kim0, yes most people are not bothered! | 07:49 |
| kim0 | and it's a compromise | 07:49 |
| flaccid | so the choice is there. you'll just pay more if you choose to do your own infrastructure which of course is not public cloud | 07:50 |
| flaccid | i hope that clears up some misconceptions | 07:50 |
| kim0 | so my take is UEC and others are great at the IaaS level. And I'm awaiting more free software equivalents to things like Facebook ..etc | 07:50 |
| kim0 | the freedom box discussion is actually quite interesting | 07:50 |
| hemanth | people who respect other data, must come up and make such cloud services, like freedombox | 07:51 |
| hemanth | kim0, :) wow! thought match, diaspora++ ? | 07:51 |
| kim0 | yeah, I just hope they take off | 07:51 |
| flaccid | if you want full PCI/DSS compliance, the public cloud is not for you yet. | 07:52 |
| hemanth | kim0, its better now | 07:52 |
| kim0 | it's always hard moving mountains like Microsoft and FB | 07:52 |
| flaccid | and i'm not sure how freedombox is different to any other.. | 07:52 |
| hemanth | ya monopoly :( | 07:52 |
| hemanth | ^ M$ and FB | 07:52 |
| uvirtbot | hemanth: Error: "M$" is not a valid command. | 07:52 |
| kim0 | lol | 07:53 |
| hemanth | :D | 07:53 |
| hemanth | ^source | 07:53 |
| uvirtbot | hemanth: My source is at http://supybot.com/ | 07:53 |
| flaccid | actually i'm not really sure how it is even relevent | 07:53 |
| flaccid | http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox is not a cloud service. | 07:53 |
| hemanth | flaccid, we were taking about 'data freedom' | 07:53 |
| kim0 | no reason why you can't be part of a cloud service from your home | 07:54 |
| flaccid | i'm not sure how that is relevent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomBox either | 07:54 |
| flaccid | it really depends how you define 'cloud service'. that is a term not really well defined if at all in the de facto industry | 07:55 |
| hemanth | kim0, so RMS is not against private clouds, he is only warning us to not to use public clouds and give all our data to them, right? | 07:55 |
| flaccid | its incredibly broad and also abused | 07:55 |
| hemanth | 'could' is the new name for the old 'game' | 07:55 |
| kim0 | hemanth: I wouldn't know what he means, that's my interpretation however | 07:55 |
| flaccid | i think the point is simple. you want to secure your data fully, you do co-location whether you run a cloud or not. | 07:55 |
| kim0 | hemanth: it still all depends on the confidentiality of your data | 07:56 |
| kim0 | whether or not you care | 07:56 |
| hemanth | kim0, yup even i feel the same, as he is always against data stealer | 07:56 |
| kim0 | non techies in many cases, just dont give a dime about their personal data | 07:57 |
| kim0 | nice discussion to start the morning ;) | 07:57 |
| hemanth | that is making those buggers to monopolize faster | 07:57 |
| hemanth | yup, it had been long time, happy to talk to such a decent crowd :) | 07:58 |
| hemanth | reminds me of http://capitalismisover.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/JAvsMZ.jpg | 08:01 |
| flaccid | any proof on claims fb distributes non aggregate info? | 08:02 |
| flaccid | curious on that.. | 08:02 |
| hemanth | Mark's treading secrets..hmm | 08:07 |
| flaccid | good ol speculation heh | 08:07 |
| hemanth | http://itgrunts.com/2010/10/07/facebook-steals-numbers-and-data-from-your-iphone/ | 08:08 |
| hemanth | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175936/1.5M_stolen_Facebook_IDs_up_for_sale | 08:08 |
| flaccid | thats not distributing your information to 3rd parties. | 08:09 |
| hemanth | its very obvious that they are distributing it! Come on! | 08:10 |
| flaccid | right | 08:10 |
| flaccid | i'll restrain from commenting there | 08:10 |
| hemanth | :) god for them | 08:11 |
| hemanth | *good | 08:11 |
| flaccid | many people have been sentenced to death or life inprisonment from such assumptions | 08:11 |
| flaccid | which is ironic considering the basis of your point is rights | 08:11 |
| hemanth | people who speak truth have always been facing the same | 08:12 |
| flaccid | i choose to base conclusions on facts, sorry | 08:12 |
| hemanth | some things they are real, need no facts | 08:13 |
| flaccid | lol | 08:13 |
| kim0 | hemanth: don't go trying to convince the world of your beliefs | 08:16 |
| hemanth | ya :( convincing right stuff to people is always tough | 08:17 |
| flaccid | so is getting your facts straight | 08:18 |
| hemanth | axioms need no proofs! | 08:19 |
| === Kiall is now known as Kiall|AFK | ||
| === Kiall|AFK is now known as Kiall | ||
| === Kiall is now known as Kiall|AFK | ||
| === Kiall|AFK is now known as Kiall | ||
| === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk | ||
| === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates | ||
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| === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates | ||
| === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk | ||
| === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates | ||
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