=== erichammond1 is now known as erichammond [05:54] kim0, hello [ i had few queries on cloud, on of the developers from canonical referred you ] [07:20] hemanth: hey [07:23] kim0, hey wanted your views on FOSS in cloud [07:23] thats a broad question; i'm keen to hear the response :) [07:26] RMS says, "It's worse than stupidity: it's a marketing hype campaign". [07:26] the ignorant usually say incorrect things [07:27] RMS is referring to private enterprise moneymaking cloud vendors [07:27] well i don't even know what RMS is.. [07:28] flaccid, "I respect Richard Stallman for the same reason I respect gravity. The man is a force of nature. He is like the iron core of the Earth: fixed, central, essential." [07:28] and i work for a private enterprise cloud management platform heh [07:28] meh [07:28] * hemanth waits for kim0 [07:29] flaccid, are there any cloud env which has the principals of free software? [07:29] isn't that what UEC is/ubuntu cloud? [07:30] still the company i work for has mostly free and open software [07:30] flaccid, eucalyptus is one such; any other? [07:31] well no such thing as a 'cloud env' to begin with [07:31] you can look at xen, cloudstack, euca etc. for clouds [07:31] flaccid, more over, most of the cloud vendors wont have the free-software philosophy [07:31] still pretty broad [07:31] define a cloud vendor? [07:32] those who provide space on there servers, saying they have cloud hosting [07:32] oh that could be any number of companies in the world thinking they do the cloud [07:34] yup, if we give our data to them, we are locked in the proprietary cage [07:35] i guess you might like to avoid that and choose a real public cloud [07:36] hemanth: oh sorry .. was grabbing some coffee .. reading and replying [07:36] kim0, ok :) [07:37] flaccid, 'real public cloud', as in? [07:37] e.g. amazon ec2 [07:38] Public cloud services may be free or offered on a pay-per-usage model...hmm [07:39] hmm hard question :) [07:39] Personally I do respect RMS a lot and I can understand where he's coming from [07:40] basically GNU has been fighting for so many years making sure, users have full control over their data and the programs to process their data [07:40] now all of that is being taken away by cloud [07:40] yup if RMS says something, there will be some strong reason behind it! [07:40] how so? [07:41] yup, if we give our data to them, we are locked in the proprietary cage [07:41] can you explain how on a technical level? [07:41] basically .. clou dto RMS I suppose means something like your data on facebook [07:41] you have no control over your data there and not even the programs to process them [07:42] thats incorrect. you have 100% control [07:42] and you can choose whatever programs you want to access your data [07:42] that sounds more like google apps or something.. [07:43] was just gonna mention that [07:43] google docs comes to mind as well [07:43] yup, they backup all over data [07:43] they have our data basically [07:43] flaccid: Amazon/Facebook/Google can disable your access to your data at any time. Therefor you do not control it. [07:43] even if we delete our account! [07:43] and they can shows everything to the feds if they choose to [07:44] same for FB [07:44] they steal our data and sell it to someone else [07:44] erichammond: sure. you can take it offsite as regular as you want. this is nothing new for a hosting provider. its actually in most of their ToS. [07:44] Personally, I trust Amazon and Google with much of my personal and company data (with backups). RMS does not based on his statements. [07:44] wherever you outsource your hosting of any kind, of course that provider is going to have control, nothing new there [07:45] erichammond, i don't trust them either [07:46] hemanth: with regards to UEC, it's a great way to run a EC2 compatble cloud using pure open source. Assuming you run it locally (private) RMS has nothing to fear [07:46] hemanth: You don't use Amazon or Google? [07:46] flaccid, yes, unless and until it's hosted by you, with your own machine, that data is not yours [07:46] I for one use them and don't trust them [07:46] I'm quite confident FB sells info on your online activity to governments [07:47] hemanth: and you do realise you don't need cloud for that situation right? its always existed. you need to fork out for co-location which costs money.. [07:47] twitters did the same during the Egyptian revolution days ago [07:47] people rely on such closed systems and they fail them [07:47] I treat what I put on Facebook as public information. [07:48] erichammond: even private one to one communication [07:48] erichammond, have you read about : "Nick Saber one day "came back from lunch to find out that he couldn't get into his Gmail account..." [07:48] kim0: I don't use Facebook for private conversation. I move any contacts to email immediately. [07:48] so hemanth you could just do co location hosting in a decent centre with your own private cloud [07:48] and you would have no issues and zomg you are using the cloud! [07:48] I host my own email. [07:48] erichammond: well, so you're so careful, most people won't be :) [07:49] but recommend Gmail for the rest of my family because they are so good at filtering spam :) [07:49] i host my own email in the cloud and if they cancel my account, well i have regular off site backups which is a best practice for any situation [07:49] kim0, yes most people are not bothered! [07:49] and it's a compromise [07:50] so the choice is there. you'll just pay more if you choose to do your own infrastructure which of course is not public cloud [07:50] i hope that clears up some misconceptions [07:50] so my take is UEC and others are great at the IaaS level. And I'm awaiting more free software equivalents to things like Facebook ..etc [07:50] the freedom box discussion is actually quite interesting [07:51] people who respect other data, must come up and make such cloud services, like freedombox [07:51] kim0, :) wow! thought match, diaspora++ ? [07:51] yeah, I just hope they take off [07:52] if you want full PCI/DSS compliance, the public cloud is not for you yet. [07:52] kim0, its better now [07:52] it's always hard moving mountains like Microsoft and FB [07:52] and i'm not sure how freedombox is different to any other.. [07:52] ya monopoly :( [07:52] ^ M$ and FB [07:52] hemanth: Error: "M$" is not a valid command. [07:53] lol [07:53] :D [07:53] ^source [07:53] hemanth: My source is at http://supybot.com/ [07:53] actually i'm not really sure how it is even relevent [07:53] http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox is not a cloud service. [07:53] flaccid, we were taking about 'data freedom' [07:54] no reason why you can't be part of a cloud service from your home [07:54] i'm not sure how that is relevent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomBox either [07:55] it really depends how you define 'cloud service'. that is a term not really well defined if at all in the de facto industry [07:55] kim0, so RMS is not against private clouds, he is only warning us to not to use public clouds and give all our data to them, right? [07:55] its incredibly broad and also abused [07:55] 'could' is the new name for the old 'game' [07:55] hemanth: I wouldn't know what he means, that's my interpretation however [07:55] i think the point is simple. you want to secure your data fully, you do co-location whether you run a cloud or not. [07:56] hemanth: it still all depends on the confidentiality of your data [07:56] whether or not you care [07:56] kim0, yup even i feel the same, as he is always against data stealer [07:57] non techies in many cases, just dont give a dime about their personal data [07:57] nice discussion to start the morning ;) [07:57] that is making those buggers to monopolize faster [07:58] yup, it had been long time, happy to talk to such a decent crowd :) [08:01] reminds me of http://capitalismisover.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/JAvsMZ.jpg [08:02] any proof on claims fb distributes non aggregate info? [08:02] curious on that.. [08:07] Mark's treading secrets..hmm [08:07] good ol speculation heh [08:08] http://itgrunts.com/2010/10/07/facebook-steals-numbers-and-data-from-your-iphone/ [08:08] http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175936/1.5M_stolen_Facebook_IDs_up_for_sale [08:09] thats not distributing your information to 3rd parties. [08:10] its very obvious that they are distributing it! Come on! [08:10] right [08:10] i'll restrain from commenting there [08:11] :) god for them [08:11] *good [08:11] many people have been sentenced to death or life inprisonment from such assumptions [08:11] which is ironic considering the basis of your point is rights [08:12] people who speak truth have always been facing the same [08:12] i choose to base conclusions on facts, sorry [08:13] some things they are real, need no facts [08:13] lol [08:16] hemanth: don't go trying to convince the world of your beliefs [08:17] ya :( convincing right stuff to people is always tough [08:18] so is getting your facts straight [08:19] axioms need no proofs! === Kiall is now known as Kiall|AFK === Kiall|AFK is now known as Kiall === Kiall is now known as Kiall|AFK === Kiall|AFK is now known as Kiall === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates