/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/21/#ubuntu-ops.txt

ubottuSenjai called the ops in #ubuntu ()01:52
FlannelWow01:53
Flanneldenizen on denizen hate01:54
semitoneshello kind sirs and madams. Would this be the right place to ask about the feasability of updating certain ubottu factoids, or would that be the domain of #ubuntu-irc?04:49
nhandlersemitones: You can simply PM the factoid suggestion to ubottu (http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins#Editing_factoids), and it will show up here for review by the OPs04:50
semitonesnhandler, thanks, that is the info I was looking for. You used to be able to do something like say "ubottu, !factoid should be "blahblahblah"" and the ops would review it, but I forgot what that was, thanks04:51
nhandlersemitones: That still works. For an edit, it would be: /msg ubottu !no foo is <reply> bar04:52
rwwor /msg ubottu !foo =~ s/magic/more magic/, if you have regex-fu and want to use it ;)04:53
nhandler:)04:53
semitonesok here goes04:54
semitonesbear in mind this is a first draft04:54
ubottuIn ubottu, semitones said: !no anybody is <reply> A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? Try something like "I need to do X, I havent been able to find anything useful by searching, do you guys have any suggestions?"04:54
Jordan_UI'm not sure that's needed, but if we do want to tack something more onto the end we should probably take from !details.04:56
semitonesThis was after c3l and I had a pretty long discussion of what an "does anyone use" question actually means04:56
Jordan_U!details04:56
ubottuPlease give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."04:56
semitonesIt would be good to have some guide to how the (real) question should be phrased04:57
Jordan_UIn fact I'm inclined to think that the shorter (current) factoid is better.04:57
rww!anyone04:58
ubottuA large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?04:58
rwwoh I see, the third sentence is new.04:58
semitonesIt's better than what I suggested, but it could still be improved.04:58
semitonesif people need to be reminded not to use "anyone" they probably need to be reminded how to ask a real question too04:58
rww``Many of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody". Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? Remember to give details, including your Ubuntu version, what you're trying to do, any relevant output, etc.``05:00
* rww pacmans the ...05:00
semitonesis there a separate factoid for "does anybody use x"05:01
Jordan_USounds good to me.05:01
rwwsemitones: That's what !anyone is for.05:01
* Jordan_U checks to see how common it is for people directed to !anyone to give a poor second attempt.05:02
semitonesbecause "does anybody know how to fix x" isn't the same kind of question as "does anybody use x"05:02
semitones!popularity or something05:02
rwwBasically, instead of people asking questions to find someone to ask their real question to, they should ask their real question up front.05:02
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)05:02
Jordan_U!best05:02
ubottuUsually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.05:02
rwwsemitones: as in, "Does anyone use Transmission? I'm wondering if it's the best torrent client..." or whatever?05:02
semitonesyes!05:03
rwwah, Jordan_U and I are on the same page. I'll go back to my wikifying05:03
semitonesso the !anyone factoid might need to mention "see !best" too05:03
semitonesto capture all the "anyone" questions05:03
rwwThey deal with different situations, though..05:03
semitonesboth starting with "does anyone"05:04
rwwThere are also plenty of questions starting with that that are valid support questions, and plenty of people who are legitimately given !anyone for questions that don't involve the word "anyone".05:05
semitoneswhat I mean is if someone says "does anyone use transmission," and someone follows with the !anyone factoid, it doesn't help them ask the real question05:05
rwwtbh, I'm starting to think that the best response is "why?" rather than factoids, but that's just my opinion ;P05:05
semitoneshaha perhaps05:06
semitonesif that gets the asker to think more about it05:06
semitoneswhich is what the factoid should do to.05:06
rwwPici: I don't know what "Potential attacks" means on the floodbot documentation page, and I still don't know enough about the intricacies of emergency mode to write about it. I just added a bunch of text, but there are blanks for you and LjL to fill ;)05:06
rwwPici: and I'm not overly fond of how the wiki's formatting the command list (some of them are indented randomly?), but that's not a big deal.05:07
rwwsemitones: Yeah. The popint of !anyone is to get people to actually ask their real question. I see your point about saying how best to do that, but don't think combining it with !best is a great idea.05:08
semitonesI can see that, especially if it would make the factoid too unwieldy.05:09
rwwDo we have a "how to ask questions" factoid somewhere? I vaguely remember one linking to a webpage about it, but can't find it.05:09
rwwthough I might be thinking of #debian05:10
semitonesthat could potentially be added onto !anyone without making it too specific05:10
rww!gq05:10
ubottuAre you sure your question allows us to help you? Please read http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxHelpAsk.html to understand how to ask a 'better' question.05:10
Jordan_Uhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html is a great guide, and commonly referenced, but the language may be a bit condecending for #ubuntu.05:10
semitones"For help on how to ask questions, see <www>"05:12
rwwhrm, I like that sabi.co.uk page. We should use it more.05:12
IdleOneit uses some (at least one word) language that is not !language compliant05:13
rwwah, didn't see that on first read through05:14
rwwthat sentence has other problems too, looking at it. hrm.05:14
IdleOnebut overall looks pretty good. maybe someone *looks at rww* should clean it up and add a page to help.u.c05:14
rwwyeah no, I already got assigned wikiwork, it's your turn ;P05:15
IdleOneI am bad at wiki creation05:15
IdleOneI'll give it a shot if you agree to proof read/clean it up if needed05:16
semitonesis there a #ubuntu-specific guide?05:16
semitonesi thought there was05:16
IdleOne!irc05:16
ubottuA list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines05:16
semitones!guidelines05:16
ubottuThe guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines05:16
rwwAnyways, getting back to !anyone, adding "See also (in PM with ubottu) !details, !gq, and !works." on the end is the shortest and most-meta I can make it.05:16
semitonesthat sounds excellent!05:17
Jordan_UBut would most people who are directed to !anyone understand what that meant?05:17
rwwcouldn't think of a way of using /msg ubottu that wouldn't end in people putting them all on one line05:17
rwwand I don't think that works05:17
semitonesfor one it would remind the person typing !anyone that there are more specific factoids05:18
semitonesand I don't see how it would hurt05:18
semitonesalso !works doesn't seem to point to anything. !poll maybe05:19
rww!works05:21
Jordan_U!doesn't work05:21
ubottuDoesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.05:21
rww!work05:21
rww!-work05:21
ubottuwork is <alias> doesn't work - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:49:4905:21
rww!works is <alias> doesn't work05:21
ubottuI'll remember that, rww05:21
IdleOneugh, I hate creating new wiki pages05:23
rwwJordan_U: perhaps just say "See also" instead of "See also (in PM with ubottu)"?05:23
semitonesand then if they do it in channel, it's simple to correct them05:24
Jordan_Urww: I generally feel that users new to IRC are probably pretty confused to see "!foo | me" in the first place.05:24
Jordan_UBut that gets into other more general issues :)05:25
rww"Type"?05:25
rww"For more guidance, type"05:26
rwwsemitones: let us know if you get bored of debating nuances >.>05:27
semitonesrww, that is not something I would get bored with! I feel like I started this, I should help it through05:27
semitonesbut if i'm violating the no-idle policy let me know05:28
rww``...blah blah (the real one) and find out? Wondering how to phrase your question? Type "/msg ubottu !details" or "/msg ubottu !gq".``05:29
semitonesI like the "... (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll"05:31
semitonesI think new users get used to !foo if they see it often05:31
rwwLet's roll with that then. It matches other factoids that do similar things (like !irc, above)05:31
rww!-anyone05:31
ubottuanyone aliases: anybody, somebody, someone, expert - added by Seveas on 2006-06-17 23:01:14 - last edited by Seveas on 2008-03-07 08:11:3205:31
Jordan_UI'll retract my complaint untill I get around to formulating a more general rant about factoids and new users :)05:32
rww!anyone =~ s/$/See also !details, !gq, and !poll./05:32
ubottuI'll remember that rww05:32
rww!anyone05:32
ubottuA large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?See also !details, !gq, and !poll.05:32
rwwSee, this is why you ignore rww and don't use regex.05:32
semitoneslol05:32
rww!anyone =~ s/\?/? /05:32
rww!anyone05:32
ubottuA large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.05:32
semitonesAwesome!05:33
semitonesThanks rww05:33
rwwThanks for your time :)05:33
semitonesno problem. see you around05:33
IdleOneRealted to Britney?05:49
IdleOnerelated*05:49
rwwquit messages with errors drive me crazy05:49
rww(although this one is just amusing)05:49
rwwi've considered PMing peregrinator_six about theirs.05:50
rww'passed' >.> <.<05:50
Jordan_UWho are kevdog and Chipzzz in #ubuntu referring to?05:57
bazhangspeedrunner05:59
Jordan_UApparently it was ubuntu_ [6275f6a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.117.246.169] who was likely neither a bot nor a troll, though not following netiquette.06:01
IdleOnehttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToAsk   thoughts, suggestions?06:02
IdleOneI know I cheated a little and stole from the existing factoids.06:04
IdleOneactually I cheated a lot06:04
ubottuIn #ubuntu, o2oo said: ubottu,  but vnc is very slow & not real time.06:30
AlanBellmorning all08:57
rwwmornin'08:58
AlanBellhas anyone given a +q or +b to {phineas, garzooka, bolt, couragethedog, ferb} in the last month or so in #ubuntu-*08:58
rwwway ahead of you. one sec.08:58
AlanBellCourageTheCoward is the latest one09:00
rww(bunch of hostnames to look up)09:00
rwwAlanBell: Apart from the #ubuntu one you're already aware of, I see nothing in BanTracker-tracked channels during the relevant time period.09:02
AlanBellthanks rww09:02
elkyI wondered if that was him.09:03
rww(For anyone who isn't already aware, that person's ability to access #ubuntu-uk is dependent on them not being banned from anywhere else in #ubuntu* for a time period.)09:03
elkyHe's also more anecdata for "'my brother did it' really means I have no brother."09:05
elkyrww, what was his #u ban for? same old?09:06
rwwelky: being offtopic, then blaming it on a script, yes.09:08
elkyat least he didn't invent another sibling. capacity for learning has been demonstrated09:09
rwwalrighty, I'm bored again. Since nobody said bad things and me and elky discussing removing floodbot bans after a week, every Floodbot ban over a month old is disappearing in 10 minutes unless someone says something ;P09:19
rwws/and/about/09:20
rwwhrm. I should probably ponder the easiest way to ask BT who set bans that show as being set by a server instead of a person.09:33
rww!unforget mc44-#ubuntu-offtopic10:07
ubottuI suddenly remember mc44-#ubuntu-offtopic again, rww10:07
rww!forget mc44-#ubuntu-offtopic10:07
ubottuI'll forget that, rww10:07
rww>;D10:07
rww!no, bot abuse is <alias> botabuse10:09
ubottuI'll remember that rww10:09
elkyrww but your opinions are WRONG!10:45
CRC_Hey is mneptok here?11:22
* gnomefreak hasnt seem him11:22
CRC_I was told to come back on Monday about getting my ban on ubuntu chan lifted. And I spoke to mneptok about it.11:24
CRC_Is anybody here that can help me?11:26
bazhangcryonic core?11:28
CRC_Had to do that individual but sadly thats not me and I got banned for it.11:33
bazhangCRC_, not sure what you mean, could you clarify please11:33
CRC_Received a ban from an individual that used my wifi cause somehow my wifi was wide open. I secured the settings and changed passes and asked if I could be unbanned cus I had no idea what I did wrong. mneptok asked me to come back and discuss about the ban for ubuntu11:40
bazhangoh right.11:41
CRC_Bah. The first part sounded weird but I am sure u know what I mean.11:41
bazhangwell not seen mneptok around recently11:41
knomewas here on saturday11:42
bazhangyeppers11:42
bazhangmaybe come back in a few hours11:42
CRC_Ok11:42
elkyOf course CRC can't possibly stand for cryonic core.12:06
topyli@btlogin13:18
gnomefreaki keep forgetting about @comment13:19
IdleOnemorning log readers13:55
jribmorning IdleOne13:56
gnomefreaknhandler: i think someone was looking for you this morning. it was either you or mnepto_k16:20
gnomefreakabout a ban16:20
ikoniait was mneptok16:20
nhandler:)16:20
Picisomeone was looking for something this morning16:20
gnomefreakah thanks sorry16:21
IdleOnesomething about his brother/neighbour doing bad stuffs16:31
IdleOneCan I blame my brother even if I don't have one (that I know of) ?16:31
IdleOneI love how we have 9000 ways of getting to the Software sources16:34
gnomefreakfor some reason that is a very popular excuse (someone else did it from my computer, or someone piggybacked off my wifi and did it)16:40
gnomefreaki would have thought that doesnt happen a whole lot16:40
gnomefreakor the other day, my keyboard has a brain of its own and keeps posting lines :(16:41
IdleOneSomeone hacked my wireless KB and posted stuff16:42
gnomefreakyeah that was it16:43
IdleOneheh I was just being silly16:43
gnomefreaki find it hard some random person would hack your wifi just to post something on IRC seeing as he wouldnt know you use it16:43
IdleOnewith your nick16:43
gnomefreakIdleOne: the guy looking for mnepto_k  was his excuse more or less16:44
jussito be honest, does it really matter what the excuse is? if they dont do it again...?17:20
IdleOneI guess not17:21
IdleOnebut being lied to tends to make it harder to lift the ban17:21
IdleOneThere is an Italian expression that basically translates to, It is easier to deal with a crook than a liar.17:23
IdleOneleast with the crook you know what to expect.17:23
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (enc appears to be abusive - 4.5)17:31
KB1JWQAh, floodbot was wrong.17:31
KB1JWQI thought that was a user for a second and was scratching my head.17:32
IdleOneKB1JWQ: flase positive17:33
IdleOnefalse flase also17:33
IdleOne:)17:33
ubottuFloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1603 users, 2 overflows, 1605 limit))18:28
mneptok0400 is a *little* early for me18:53
highvoltagebit restrictive too, I like at least 070019:03
knome0400 is a bit too late, 0700 is way too early19:05
Tm_Tknome: I wake up 0600 ~every morning..19:22
knomeTm_T, well, congrats19:23
knome:P19:23
Tm_TI do not like it ):19:24
knomei'm sorry19:24
uRockwhy was I booted and not ohsix?19:33
Piciyou both were.19:33
jribuRock: you both were19:33
uRockk19:33
jribuRock: you first because u is a home key for me...19:33
rwwTm_T: I woke up at midday today :D19:44
PiciI woke up at 6:01 am.19:44
gordi woke up when my alarm went off19:50
gordweird that19:50
PiciThats when my alarm goes off.19:52
topyliPici: you set your alarm for 6:01? :)19:56
topyli"six o'clock? no way! i'll sleep till one past"19:57
Picitopyli: The snooze goes for 9 minutes, so if I press it once its like I'm waking up at 6:10.19:58
topyliok...19:58
PiciIt makes sense to me!19:58
PiciDon't judge me!19:59
rwwI just set multiple alarms and never use snooze :<19:59
topyliheh19:59
topylimy wife thinks the alarm clock is a musical instrument too, plays it for me each morning for about half an hour20:00
topylii don't want to complain though, artistic hobbies are to be encouraged, right?20:02
mneptoktopyli: does it play Matti Nykanen? we could challenge on "artistic" grounds.20:04
topylino, it's just a beep-beep alarm. so it's much more sophisticated than matti's music20:06
mneptokhai hai hai ...20:08
oCeanhi, whenever a bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu url is mentioned (in #u) ubottu sends the bug's title/status in the channel.20:19
oCeanIs this intentional?20:19
oCeanI mean, I think it might be confusing, more so than helpful20:20
tonyyarussooCean: Intentional, yes.  We've been discussing whether it's a good idea, so thanks for your comment.20:21
oCeanah ok, good to know20:21
MamarokMatti Nykanen as in the Ski flying guy?20:55
mneptokMamarok: yeah. his "careers" post juming have been ... interesting20:56
mneptokhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNn3pMaNUAU21:01
* mneptok shudders21:01
Mamarokurghs21:03
* Mamarok just read up on wikipedia, this guy is really weird21:05
Mamarokbesides being the most successful ski jumper of all times he apparently didn't succeed in much else21:05
mneptokMamarok: "just when you think it can't get any worse ..."21:06
Mamarokyeah, tried to kill his wife apparently21:06
PiciWow, that guy's wiki page is full of great quotes.21:06
MamarokPici: where do you see those?21:10
Pici"millionaire sausage heiress"21:28
Pici...was arrested on suspicion of attempted manslaughter after the stabbing of a family friend after losing a finger pulling competition.21:28
mneptokin a finger-pulling contest there can be no winner21:34
topyliyeah the family makes awesome sausages21:40
=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
CRC_Hello22:02
CRC_mneptok: Are u available?22:03
CRC_??22:04
CRC_... Is anybody available to help me with a ban in ubuntu chan?22:06
ubottuCRC_ called the ops in #ubuntu-irc ()22:08
IdleOneCRC_: you are going to have to wait for mneptok to be active. Also the !op factoid is for emergency only.22:10
mneptokCRC_: i'm here22:12
mneptokCRC_: have you secured your network?22:12
CRC_Hey mneptok. Sorry to bug u if u were busy. Yea my network is secured. Did not have an issue since last time we talked :)22:13
mneptokCRC_: please read these links:22:13
mneptok!CoC22:13
ubottuThe Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .22:13
mneptok!guidelines22:13
ubottuThe guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines22:13
mneptoktell me when you are done.22:14
CRC_Ok22:14
CRC_Hey mneptok. I have read the guidelines and code of conduct.22:31
CRC_I'm done mneptok22:35
IdleOnepatience CRC_22:35
CRC_Ok22:35
IdleOneCRC_: You understand both the guidelines and the Code of conduct?22:36
CRC_Yes I do22:36
IdleOneyou agree to follow them ?22:36
CRC_ Yes I agree22:37
IdleOneyou should be able to join #ubuntu bow.22:38
IdleOnenow*22:38
CRC_Thank u IdleOne and mneptok22:39
IdleOneplease join so we can make sure I haven't missed anything22:39
CRC_I'm in22:39
CRC_Thanks again22:40
IdleOnethank you.22:40
mneptokCRC_: any further abuse from your IP address will result in bans not so easily lifted.22:40
CRC_Ok22:40
CRC_On the guidelines it says u guys encourage questions.22:41
IdleOnequestions are good22:41
mneptokthis channel is for questions related to the operation of core Ubuntu IRC channels. if your question is about such things, this is the right place.22:41
IdleOneDid you have any concerning the guidelines?22:41
CRC_No not really just a "was curious question" thanks again guys :)22:42
ubottuPaavi2_0 called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()23:30
h00koh lord, looks like a trollfest.23:33
IdleOnenah it's just random with a bug in his sleeping bag23:33
rwwI spread the blame further than Random832, personally.23:34
IdleOneI may have had a part in it.23:34
IdleOnemy sarcasm took him deeper into the frustration. Had the opposite effect I was hoping for.23:35
IdleOneI have read those already23:36
IdleOneDo I need to read them again?23:36
h00ktsimpson: thanks for +z23:37
tsimpsonI was tempted to set mlock +m ;)23:37
h00k:D23:37
rwwI'm tempted to set -c, just so they have fun playing with color codes instead of being annoying.23:38
h00kokay.23:39
h00kI think they've settled. maybe.23:39
IdleOneyou should +v Random23:39
IdleOnemake him feel special23:40
IdleOneI think it would help with his mood a bit23:40

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