[01:53] <Flannel> Wow
[01:54] <Flannel> denizen on denizen hate
[04:49] <semitones> hello kind sirs and madams. Would this be the right place to ask about the feasability of updating certain ubottu factoids, or would that be the domain of #ubuntu-irc?
[04:50] <nhandler> semitones: You can simply PM the factoid suggestion to ubottu (http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins#Editing_factoids), and it will show up here for review by the OPs
[04:51] <semitones> nhandler, thanks, that is the info I was looking for. You used to be able to do something like say "ubottu, !factoid should be "blahblahblah"" and the ops would review it, but I forgot what that was, thanks
[04:52] <nhandler> semitones: That still works. For an edit, it would be: /msg ubottu !no foo is <reply> bar
[04:53] <rww> or /msg ubottu !foo =~ s/magic/more magic/, if you have regex-fu and want to use it ;)
[04:53] <nhandler> :)
[04:54] <semitones> ok here goes
[04:54] <semitones> bear in mind this is a first draft
[04:56] <Jordan_U> I'm not sure that's needed, but if we do want to tack something more onto the end we should probably take from !details.
[04:56] <semitones> This was after c3l and I had a pretty long discussion of what an "does anyone use" question actually means
[04:56] <Jordan_U> !details
[04:57] <semitones> It would be good to have some guide to how the (real) question should be phrased
[04:57] <Jordan_U> In fact I'm inclined to think that the shorter (current) factoid is better.
[04:58] <rww> !anyone
[04:58] <rww> oh I see, the third sentence is new.
[04:58] <semitones> It's better than what I suggested, but it could still be improved.
[04:58] <semitones> if people need to be reminded not to use "anyone" they probably need to be reminded how to ask a real question too
[05:00] <rww> ``Many of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody". Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? Remember to give details, including your Ubuntu version, what you're trying to do, any relevant output, etc.``
[05:00]  * rww pacmans the ...
[05:01] <semitones> is there a separate factoid for "does anybody use x"
[05:01] <Jordan_U> Sounds good to me.
[05:01] <rww> semitones: That's what !anyone is for.
[05:02]  * Jordan_U checks to see how common it is for people directed to !anyone to give a poor second attempt.
[05:02] <semitones> because "does anybody know how to fix x" isn't the same kind of question as "does anybody use x"
[05:02] <semitones> !popularity or something
[05:02] <rww> Basically, instead of people asking questions to find someone to ask their real question to, they should ask their real question up front.
[05:02] <Jordan_U> !best
[05:02] <rww> semitones: as in, "Does anyone use Transmission? I'm wondering if it's the best torrent client..." or whatever?
[05:03] <semitones> yes!
[05:03] <rww> ah, Jordan_U and I are on the same page. I'll go back to my wikifying
[05:03] <semitones> so the !anyone factoid might need to mention "see !best" too
[05:03] <semitones> to capture all the "anyone" questions
[05:03] <rww> They deal with different situations, though..
[05:04] <semitones> both starting with "does anyone"
[05:05] <rww> There are also plenty of questions starting with that that are valid support questions, and plenty of people who are legitimately given !anyone for questions that don't involve the word "anyone".
[05:05] <semitones> what I mean is if someone says "does anyone use transmission," and someone follows with the !anyone factoid, it doesn't help them ask the real question
[05:05] <rww> tbh, I'm starting to think that the best response is "why?" rather than factoids, but that's just my opinion ;P
[05:06] <semitones> haha perhaps
[05:06] <semitones> if that gets the asker to think more about it
[05:06] <semitones> which is what the factoid should do to.
[05:06] <rww> Pici: I don't know what "Potential attacks" means on the floodbot documentation page, and I still don't know enough about the intricacies of emergency mode to write about it. I just added a bunch of text, but there are blanks for you and LjL to fill ;)
[05:07] <rww> Pici: and I'm not overly fond of how the wiki's formatting the command list (some of them are indented randomly?), but that's not a big deal.
[05:08] <rww> semitones: Yeah. The popint of !anyone is to get people to actually ask their real question. I see your point about saying how best to do that, but don't think combining it with !best is a great idea.
[05:09] <semitones> I can see that, especially if it would make the factoid too unwieldy.
[05:09] <rww> Do we have a "how to ask questions" factoid somewhere? I vaguely remember one linking to a webpage about it, but can't find it.
[05:10] <rww> though I might be thinking of #debian
[05:10] <semitones> that could potentially be added onto !anyone without making it too specific
[05:10] <rww> !gq
[05:10] <Jordan_U> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html is a great guide, and commonly referenced, but the language may be a bit condecending for #ubuntu.
[05:12] <semitones> "For help on how to ask questions, see <www>"
[05:12] <rww> hrm, I like that sabi.co.uk page. We should use it more.
[05:13] <IdleOne> it uses some (at least one word) language that is not !language compliant
[05:14] <rww> ah, didn't see that on first read through
[05:14] <rww> that sentence has other problems too, looking at it. hrm.
[05:14] <IdleOne> but overall looks pretty good. maybe someone *looks at rww* should clean it up and add a page to help.u.c
[05:15] <rww> yeah no, I already got assigned wikiwork, it's your turn ;P
[05:15] <IdleOne> I am bad at wiki creation
[05:16] <IdleOne> I'll give it a shot if you agree to proof read/clean it up if needed
[05:16] <semitones> is there a #ubuntu-specific guide?
[05:16] <semitones> i thought there was
[05:16] <IdleOne> !irc
[05:16] <semitones> !guidelines
[05:16] <rww> Anyways, getting back to !anyone, adding "See also (in PM with ubottu) !details, !gq, and !works." on the end is the shortest and most-meta I can make it.
[05:17] <semitones> that sounds excellent!
[05:17] <Jordan_U> But would most people who are directed to !anyone understand what that meant?
[05:17] <rww> couldn't think of a way of using /msg ubottu that wouldn't end in people putting them all on one line
[05:17] <rww> and I don't think that works
[05:18] <semitones> for one it would remind the person typing !anyone that there are more specific factoids
[05:18] <semitones> and I don't see how it would hurt
[05:19] <semitones> also !works doesn't seem to point to anything. !poll maybe
[05:21] <rww> !works
[05:21] <Jordan_U> !doesn't work
[05:21] <rww> !work
[05:21] <rww> !-work
[05:21] <rww> !works is <alias> doesn't work
[05:23] <IdleOne> ugh, I hate creating new wiki pages
[05:23] <rww> Jordan_U: perhaps just say "See also" instead of "See also (in PM with ubottu)"?
[05:24] <semitones> and then if they do it in channel, it's simple to correct them
[05:24] <Jordan_U> rww: I generally feel that users new to IRC are probably pretty confused to see "!foo | me" in the first place.
[05:25] <Jordan_U> But that gets into other more general issues :)
[05:25] <rww> "Type"?
[05:26] <rww> "For more guidance, type"
[05:27] <rww> semitones: let us know if you get bored of debating nuances >.>
[05:27] <semitones> rww, that is not something I would get bored with! I feel like I started this, I should help it through
[05:28] <semitones> but if i'm violating the no-idle policy let me know
[05:29] <rww> ``...blah blah (the real one) and find out? Wondering how to phrase your question? Type "/msg ubottu !details" or "/msg ubottu !gq".``
[05:31] <semitones> I like the "... (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll"
[05:31] <semitones> I think new users get used to !foo if they see it often
[05:31] <rww> Let's roll with that then. It matches other factoids that do similar things (like !irc, above)
[05:31] <rww> !-anyone
[05:32] <Jordan_U> I'll retract my complaint untill I get around to formulating a more general rant about factoids and new users :)
[05:32] <rww> !anyone =~ s/$/See also !details, !gq, and !poll./
[05:32] <rww> !anyone
[05:32] <rww> See, this is why you ignore rww and don't use regex.
[05:32] <semitones> lol
[05:32] <rww> !anyone =~ s/\?/? /
[05:32] <rww> !anyone
[05:33] <semitones> Awesome!
[05:33] <semitones> Thanks rww
[05:33] <rww> Thanks for your time :)
[05:33] <semitones> no problem. see you around
[05:49] <IdleOne> Realted to Britney?
[05:49] <IdleOne> related*
[05:49] <rww> quit messages with errors drive me crazy
[05:49] <rww> (although this one is just amusing)
[05:50] <rww> i've considered PMing peregrinator_six about theirs.
[05:50] <rww> 'passed' >.> <.<
[05:57] <Jordan_U> Who are kevdog and Chipzzz in #ubuntu referring to?
[05:59] <bazhang> speedrunner
[06:01] <Jordan_U> Apparently it was ubuntu_ [6275f6a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.117.246.169] who was likely neither a bot nor a troll, though not following netiquette.
[06:02] <IdleOne> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToAsk   thoughts, suggestions?
[06:04] <IdleOne> I know I cheated a little and stole from the existing factoids.
[06:04] <IdleOne> actually I cheated a lot
[08:57] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:58] <rww> mornin'
[08:58] <AlanBell> has anyone given a +q or +b to {phineas, garzooka, bolt, couragethedog, ferb} in the last month or so in #ubuntu-*
[08:58] <rww> way ahead of you. one sec.
[09:00] <AlanBell> CourageTheCoward is the latest one
[09:00] <rww> (bunch of hostnames to look up)
[09:02] <rww> AlanBell: Apart from the #ubuntu one you're already aware of, I see nothing in BanTracker-tracked channels during the relevant time period.
[09:02] <AlanBell> thanks rww
[09:03] <elky> I wondered if that was him.
[09:03] <rww> (For anyone who isn't already aware, that person's ability to access #ubuntu-uk is dependent on them not being banned from anywhere else in #ubuntu* for a time period.)
[09:05] <elky> He's also more anecdata for "'my brother did it' really means I have no brother."
[09:06] <elky> rww, what was his #u ban for? same old?
[09:08] <rww> elky: being offtopic, then blaming it on a script, yes.
[09:09] <elky> at least he didn't invent another sibling. capacity for learning has been demonstrated
[09:19] <rww> alrighty, I'm bored again. Since nobody said bad things and me and elky discussing removing floodbot bans after a week, every Floodbot ban over a month old is disappearing in 10 minutes unless someone says something ;P
[09:20] <rww> s/and/about/
[09:33] <rww> hrm. I should probably ponder the easiest way to ask BT who set bans that show as being set by a server instead of a person.
[10:07] <rww> !unforget mc44-#ubuntu-offtopic
[10:07] <rww> !forget mc44-#ubuntu-offtopic
[10:07] <rww> >;D
[10:09] <rww> !no, bot abuse is <alias> botabuse
[10:45] <elky> rww but your opinions are WRONG!
[11:22] <CRC_> Hey is mneptok here?
[11:22]  * gnomefreak hasnt seem him
[11:24] <CRC_> I was told to come back on Monday about getting my ban on ubuntu chan lifted. And I spoke to mneptok about it.
[11:26] <CRC_> Is anybody here that can help me?
[11:28] <bazhang> cryonic core?
[11:33] <CRC_> Had to do that individual but sadly thats not me and I got banned for it.
[11:33] <bazhang> CRC_, not sure what you mean, could you clarify please
[11:40] <CRC_> Received a ban from an individual that used my wifi cause somehow my wifi was wide open. I secured the settings and changed passes and asked if I could be unbanned cus I had no idea what I did wrong. mneptok asked me to come back and discuss about the ban for ubuntu
[11:41] <bazhang> oh right.
[11:41] <CRC_> Bah. The first part sounded weird but I am sure u know what I mean.
[11:41] <bazhang> well not seen mneptok around recently
[11:42] <knome> was here on saturday
[11:42] <bazhang> yeppers
[11:42] <bazhang> maybe come back in a few hours
[11:42] <CRC_> Ok
[12:06] <elky> Of course CRC can't possibly stand for cryonic core.
[13:18] <topyli> @btlogin
[13:19] <gnomefreak> i keep forgetting about @comment
[13:55] <IdleOne> morning log readers
[13:56] <jrib> morning IdleOne
[16:20] <gnomefreak> nhandler: i think someone was looking for you this morning. it was either you or mnepto_k
[16:20] <gnomefreak> about a ban
[16:20] <ikonia> it was mneptok
[16:20] <nhandler> :)
[16:20] <Pici> someone was looking for something this morning
[16:21] <gnomefreak> ah thanks sorry
[16:31] <IdleOne> something about his brother/neighbour doing bad stuffs
[16:31] <IdleOne> Can I blame my brother even if I don't have one (that I know of) ?
[16:34] <IdleOne> I love how we have 9000 ways of getting to the Software sources
[16:40] <gnomefreak> for some reason that is a very popular excuse (someone else did it from my computer, or someone piggybacked off my wifi and did it)
[16:40] <gnomefreak> i would have thought that doesnt happen a whole lot
[16:41] <gnomefreak> or the other day, my keyboard has a brain of its own and keeps posting lines :(
[16:42] <IdleOne> Someone hacked my wireless KB and posted stuff
[16:43] <gnomefreak> yeah that was it
[16:43] <IdleOne> heh I was just being silly
[16:43] <gnomefreak> i find it hard some random person would hack your wifi just to post something on IRC seeing as he wouldnt know you use it
[16:43] <IdleOne> with your nick
[16:44] <gnomefreak> IdleOne: the guy looking for mnepto_k  was his excuse more or less
[17:20] <jussi> to be honest, does it really matter what the excuse is? if they dont do it again...?
[17:21] <IdleOne> I guess not
[17:21] <IdleOne> but being lied to tends to make it harder to lift the ban
[17:23] <IdleOne> There is an Italian expression that basically translates to, It is easier to deal with a crook than a liar.
[17:23] <IdleOne> least with the crook you know what to expect.
[17:31] <KB1JWQ> Ah, floodbot was wrong.
[17:32] <KB1JWQ> I thought that was a user for a second and was scratching my head.
[17:33] <IdleOne> KB1JWQ: flase positive
[17:33] <IdleOne> false flase also
[17:33] <IdleOne> :)
[18:53] <mneptok> 0400 is a *little* early for me
[19:03] <highvoltage> bit restrictive too, I like at least 0700
[19:05] <knome> 0400 is a bit too late, 0700 is way too early
[19:22] <Tm_T> knome: I wake up 0600 ~every morning..
[19:23] <knome> Tm_T, well, congrats
[19:23] <knome> :P
[19:24] <Tm_T> I do not like it ):
[19:24] <knome> i'm sorry
[19:33] <uRock> why was I booted and not ohsix?
[19:33] <Pici> you both were.
[19:33] <jrib> uRock: you both were
[19:33] <uRock> k
[19:33] <jrib> uRock: you first because u is a home key for me...
[19:44] <rww> Tm_T: I woke up at midday today :D
[19:44] <Pici> I woke up at 6:01 am.
[19:50] <gord> i woke up when my alarm went off
[19:50] <gord> weird that
[19:52] <Pici> Thats when my alarm goes off.
[19:56] <topyli> Pici: you set your alarm for 6:01? :)
[19:57] <topyli> "six o'clock? no way! i'll sleep till one past"
[19:58] <Pici> topyli: The snooze goes for 9 minutes, so if I press it once its like I'm waking up at 6:10.
[19:58] <topyli> ok...
[19:58] <Pici> It makes sense to me!
[19:59] <Pici> Don't judge me!
[19:59] <rww> I just set multiple alarms and never use snooze :<
[19:59] <topyli> heh
[20:00] <topyli> my wife thinks the alarm clock is a musical instrument too, plays it for me each morning for about half an hour
[20:02] <topyli> i don't want to complain though, artistic hobbies are to be encouraged, right?
[20:04] <mneptok> topyli: does it play Matti Nykanen? we could challenge on "artistic" grounds.
[20:06] <topyli> no, it's just a beep-beep alarm. so it's much more sophisticated than matti's music
[20:08] <mneptok> hai hai hai ...
[20:19] <oCean> hi, whenever a bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu url is mentioned (in #u) ubottu sends the bug's title/status in the channel.
[20:19] <oCean> Is this intentional?
[20:20] <oCean> I mean, I think it might be confusing, more so than helpful
[20:21] <tonyyarusso> oCean: Intentional, yes.  We've been discussing whether it's a good idea, so thanks for your comment.
[20:21] <oCean> ah ok, good to know
[20:55] <Mamarok> Matti Nykanen as in the Ski flying guy?
[20:56] <mneptok> Mamarok: yeah. his "careers" post juming have been ... interesting
[21:01] <mneptok> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNn3pMaNUAU
[21:01]  * mneptok shudders
[21:03] <Mamarok> urghs
[21:05]  * Mamarok just read up on wikipedia, this guy is really weird
[21:05] <Mamarok> besides being the most successful ski jumper of all times he apparently didn't succeed in much else
[21:06] <mneptok> Mamarok: "just when you think it can't get any worse ..."
[21:06] <Mamarok> yeah, tried to kill his wife apparently
[21:06] <Pici> Wow, that guy's wiki page is full of great quotes.
[21:10] <Mamarok> Pici: where do you see those?
[21:28] <Pici> "millionaire sausage heiress"
[21:28] <Pici> ...was arrested on suspicion of attempted manslaughter after the stabbing of a family friend after losing a finger pulling competition.
[21:34] <mneptok> in a finger-pulling contest there can be no winner
[21:40] <topyli> yeah the family makes awesome sausages
[22:02] <CRC_> Hello
[22:03] <CRC_> mneptok: Are u available?
[22:04] <CRC_> ??
[22:06] <CRC_> ... Is anybody available to help me with a ban in ubuntu chan?
[22:10] <IdleOne> CRC_: you are going to have to wait for mneptok to be active. Also the !op factoid is for emergency only.
[22:12] <mneptok> CRC_: i'm here
[22:12] <mneptok> CRC_: have you secured your network?
[22:13] <CRC_> Hey mneptok. Sorry to bug u if u were busy. Yea my network is secured. Did not have an issue since last time we talked :)
[22:13] <mneptok> CRC_: please read these links:
[22:13] <mneptok> !CoC
[22:13] <mneptok> !guidelines
[22:14] <mneptok> tell me when you are done.
[22:14] <CRC_> Ok
[22:31] <CRC_> Hey mneptok. I have read the guidelines and code of conduct.
[22:35] <CRC_> I'm done mneptok
[22:35] <IdleOne> patience CRC_
[22:35] <CRC_> Ok
[22:36] <IdleOne> CRC_: You understand both the guidelines and the Code of conduct?
[22:36] <CRC_> Yes I do
[22:36] <IdleOne> you agree to follow them ?
[22:37] <CRC_>  Yes I agree
[22:38] <IdleOne> you should be able to join #ubuntu bow.
[22:38] <IdleOne> now*
[22:39] <CRC_> Thank u IdleOne and mneptok
[22:39] <IdleOne> please join so we can make sure I haven't missed anything
[22:39] <CRC_> I'm in
[22:40] <CRC_> Thanks again
[22:40] <IdleOne> thank you.
[22:40] <mneptok> CRC_: any further abuse from your IP address will result in bans not so easily lifted.
[22:40] <CRC_> Ok
[22:41] <CRC_> On the guidelines it says u guys encourage questions.
[22:41] <IdleOne> questions are good
[22:41] <mneptok> this channel is for questions related to the operation of core Ubuntu IRC channels. if your question is about such things, this is the right place.
[22:41] <IdleOne> Did you have any concerning the guidelines?
[22:42] <CRC_> No not really just a "was curious question" thanks again guys :)
[23:33] <h00k> oh lord, looks like a trollfest.
[23:33] <IdleOne> nah it's just random with a bug in his sleeping bag
[23:34] <rww> I spread the blame further than Random832, personally.
[23:34] <IdleOne> I may have had a part in it.
[23:35] <IdleOne> my sarcasm took him deeper into the frustration. Had the opposite effect I was hoping for.
[23:36] <IdleOne> I have read those already
[23:36] <IdleOne> Do I need to read them again?
[23:37] <h00k> tsimpson: thanks for +z
[23:37] <tsimpson> I was tempted to set mlock +m ;)
[23:37] <h00k> :D
[23:38] <rww> I'm tempted to set -c, just so they have fun playing with color codes instead of being annoying.
[23:39] <h00k> okay.
[23:39] <h00k> I think they've settled. maybe.
[23:39] <IdleOne> you should +v Random
[23:40] <IdleOne> make him feel special
[23:40] <IdleOne> I think it would help with his mood a bit