[00:57] <daftykins> all sorted with flash 10.2
[00:57] <daftykins> i needed to create /etc/adobe/mms.cfg
[00:57] <daftykins> and enable HWdecode with a config parameter in there
[00:57] <daftykins> all working \o/
[03:12] <russell__> Hi, I need some help getting X back - it appears that the Ati drivers have stopped x from displaying anything - anyone? I just need to set it back to normal pre-install ubuntu -state
[03:17] <ball> I installed Ubuntu Netbook Edition for someone today.
[03:18] <ball> It was slow to install, but worked once it was in there.
[06:21] <HazRPG> updating pidgin
[07:03] <Myrtti> myyh
[07:45] <oldskool_> morning, How is everyone?  Can anyone help me fix my broken Ubuntu Machine?  Fails to boot, drops to a shell tried to fix it myself from the forums etc but no joy over the last couple of days.
[07:46] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:47] <oldskool_> hi Moo
[07:48] <oldskool_> I believe udev is broken/not fully installed.  The shell mounts the filesystem as read only and I have no network connection.  How would I go about installing udev from a cd rom say?
[07:57] <SuperMat1> you could log in with a live cd, then chroot to your filesystem
[07:57] <SuperMat1> that's how I teend to fix things
[07:58] <oldskool_> ok I know how to do that, then can i run a fix for udev? when i tried before it tries to install to the live version not the Installed version on the hard drive
[07:59] <oldskool_> I will boot into the live cd now though
[08:00] <oldskool_> how do i chroot into the filesystem? im now guessing it is different to just typing sudo su at a terminal?
[08:02] <SuperMatt> this may be about grub, but it tells you how to do chroot in there: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1581099
[08:02] <oldskool_> hmm looking at the web it is a fair bit more involved than sudo su! lol
[08:02] <oldskool_> thanks matt, taking a look now
[08:19] <oldskool_> hi Matt, everything seemd to go ok except for the chroot command itself. I get the following. "chroot: failed to run command '/bin/bash':exec format error"
[08:20] <oldskool_> i haved typed the command as per the guide above "sudo chroot /mnt/temp" the correct filesystem is mounted in temp etc
[08:21] <oldskool_> Have used Ubuntu for years now this is the worst problem ive had, saying that I havent had many! woot!
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> oldskool_: /mnt/temp/bin/bash does not exist, or you're running a 32-bit kernel and the /bin/bash in that chroot is 64-bit
[08:26] <oldskool_> yes i was running 64, i imagine the live is 32 bit.  will rebooting using a 64 bit live cd help?
[08:27] <oldskool_> /mnt/temp/bin/bash is present
[08:27] <hoover> mornin all
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> oldskool_: it should help, yes
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> had the exact same problem on a coworker's laptop last week :)
[08:29] <oldskool_> first chroot but looks like a handy tool :) will re-boot off of a 64bit live and give you an update in a bit
[08:32] <oldskool_> running the new unity desktop on a netbook, quite pleased with it so far :)
[08:32] <oldskool_> unity shell even or whatever it is :)
[08:33] <DJones> Morning all
[08:42] <MooDoo> DJones: morning
[08:43] <DJones> Hi MooDoo
[08:46] <dwatkins> hi folks
[08:46] <MooDoo> morn
[09:02] <hoover> mornin
[09:03] <oldskool_> morning
[09:03] <daubers> Morning
[09:04] <JamesTait> Greetings, fellow Mondaymorningites! Best wishes for your journey!
[09:04] <daubers> He's chipper! GET HIM
[09:05]  * MartijnVdS grabs a pitchfork
[09:06] <JamesTait> :D
[09:10] <JamesTait> daubers: That's the thing with the internet - you can appear to be whatever you want to be. ;)
[09:15] <daubers> JamesTait is Mr T?
[09:15] <JamesTait> And I ain't gettin' on no plane, fool!
[09:16] <oldskool_> MartijnVdS, wOOt, managed to get into a chroot! thanks for the pointers, now just need to fix everything!
[09:35] <oldskool_> hmm i think i was properly broken! running "aptitude full-update" is installing lots of packages I assume this is ok?
[09:35] <kazade> morning all o/
[09:35] <daubers> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[09:36] <oldskool_> o/
[09:36]  * daubers is going to learn howto keep bee's at River Cottage in June!!!
[09:36] <oldskool_> haha sounds fun, bet thats a good buzz
[09:37] <daubers> Mums paying for it too \o/
[09:39] <BigRedS> oldskool_: full-upgrade normally pulls in many new packages. What is it you're doing?
[09:39] <BigRedS> or, perhaps rather, what is it you've just fixed
[09:40] <oldskool_> BigRed5, I was not booting into the Filesystem, udev was broken, dropped to a maintenence shell with no write access to my filesystem and no network connection
[09:41] <BigRedS> oldskool_: ahh, and you chrooted, fixed the issue, and are now back to booting how you should be?
[09:41] <oldskool_> run a live cd and chroot into my Filesystem, tried dpkg-reconfigure udev to no joy etc etc
[09:42] <oldskool_> just finished the update, attempting to reboot in a minute "Fingers crossed"
[09:42] <oldskool_> any other commands to help clean up before i reboot?  I am by no means a power linux user but i know my way round a little, any suggestions?
[09:46] <oldskool_> hmm udev is still broken.  the only error i am getting though is a warning about an "invalid character in revision number" for a few strings in various dpkg files
[09:47] <oldskool_> uninstall and then install udev?  I dont like the sound of that..
[09:50] <oldskool_> "dpkg --configure -a" --> "Processing was halted because there were too many errors" lol I think its broken!
[09:56] <oldskool_> BigRedS, Rebooted and still broken, do I chroot agin and try some more cleanup / reinstall commands or does it appear to be proper broken?
[09:57] <BigRedS> oldskool_: well, it does appear to be properly broken, but it's likely fixable
[09:57] <BigRedS> I'm not entirely sure how, though
[09:58] <BigRedS> you've a choice between a good lesson in dpkg/apt, versus a perhaps simpler reinstall. I'd go with teh former, but I'm not in much of a position to teach
[09:59] <oldskool_> BigRedS, Hmm thats my thinking, I will play around for a bit longer.  Have been using ubuntu for about 7 years or so now so its about time I learn a little more i suppose!  Thanks for the pointers
[09:59] <BigRedS> if the errors aren't plentiful, it may be worth either fixing the files by hand, or chrooting to reinstall or remove those packages
[10:00] <BigRedS> oldskool_: it's no problem - I've been doing it a bit longer and have still somehow avoided having to get too far into fixing dpkg. I'm still not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing :)
[10:07] <andylockran> hey guys
[10:07] <andylockran> where's the default apache landing page stored on ubuntu
[10:07] <andylockran> need to set it as the page for a site
[10:07] <bigcalm> Web browser page?
[10:07] <bigcalm> Oh apache
[10:07] <andylockran> the default 'You have installed apache correctly' .etc
[10:08] <bigcalm> It's /var/www/
[10:08] <andylockran> or it is just 'It Works'
[10:08] <bigcalm> I have no idea why my eyes just skipped the word "apache" in your question. Most odd
[10:09] <tugrik> it's /var/www isn't it?
[10:10] <andylockran> I may have deleted it from that location :)
[10:10] <tugrik> so just write an index.html in /var/www ?
[10:10] <andylockran> /usr/share/apache2/default-site/index.html
[10:11] <andylockran> not the pretty page you get on CentOS, but good enough nonetheless.
[10:11] <BigRedS> tugrik: you need to remove the redirect from /etc/apache2/sites-available/default too
[10:12] <tugrik> ah, useful to know, cheeers BigRedS
[10:12] <tugrik> can you tell my apache setups are usually just to support BeEF or monit or something similar ;)
[10:15] <BigRedS> tugrik: I
[10:15] <BigRedS> 've forgotten that bit on *every* new Apache install I've ever done, I'm pretty sure
[10:15] <BigRedS> always a brief "wait, why are you doing that? ohhhh yeah..."
[10:27] <Myrtti>  I wish I could sleep
[10:28] <bigcalm> Myrtti: get drunk
[10:30] <Myrtti> I can't until my sister comes from work
[10:37] <MooDoo> how is everyone today?
[10:40] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:42] <MooDoo> s-fox, good morning
[10:42] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :)
[10:43] <MooDoo> s-fox, how are you today?
[10:43] <s-fox> I'm alright thank you, how are you ?
[10:43] <MooDoo> s-fox, very well thank you
[10:45] <selinuxium> Morning  all   o/
[10:45] <s-fox> Hello selinuxium
[10:45] <s-fox> How are you ?
[10:46] <selinuxium> s-fox, not bad thank you. You?
[10:46] <s-fox>  I'm alright thank you
[10:46] <andylockran> howdy guys
[10:46] <selinuxium> Great stuff :)
[10:46] <s-fox> Hello andylockran
[10:46] <selinuxium> Hey andylockran   o/
[10:49] <selinuxium> Just got a response back from the Ubuntu Training Team regarding the Ubuntu Professional exam.... They have officially discontinued the Ubuntu 199 exam...  I find this worrying tbh... I feel one of the reasons business turn to Novell/Redhat is there are accredited engineers... With no professionals, how do you sell it to the business?
[10:49] <selinuxium> Shhhh bot... :)
[10:49] <MooDoo> selinuxium, so there are no official ubuntu exams any more?
[10:50] <selinuxium> MooDoo. Nope.
[10:50] <BigRedS> selinuxium: dammit. I've still got a voucher for ubuntu 199 knocking around
[10:50] <MooDoo> selinuxium, oooo no, did they give you a reason?  lack of interest?
[10:50] <davmor2> morning all
[10:51] <davmor2> MooDoo:
[10:51] <MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you laddi?
[10:51] <MooDoo> laddo even
[10:51] <selinuxium> I am an LPIC 101 /102 and a Novell Network Administrator..  but now I can't get accredited to work with the system I want to use...
[10:52] <MooDoo> selinuxium, booooooooo
[10:52]  * MooDoo hasn't played with netware in aaaaages
[10:52] <selinuxium> MooDoo, :) This is probably a good thing...
[10:52] <davmor2> MooDoo: I thought you were calling me a Lady for one horrific moment,  I was going to don't confuse me with czajkowski
[10:53] <MooDoo> selinuxium, well if it's not netware, it's windows server which i'm doing certification in .....shhhhhhhh
[10:53] <selinuxium> I am in the process of moving out core infrastructure from Suse to Ubuntu...
[10:53] <MooDoo> davmor2, a very lovely lady....in little britain mode....
[10:54] <selinuxium> The training budget has me down for the Ubuntu 199... Now I have to go back to my boss and say that I can't get accredited...   :/
[10:54] <n1md4> who can I contact about ubuntu-uk/where-are-we?
[10:54] <selinuxium> Again bot... Shhhh....
[10:55] <andylockran> what's 119 ?
[10:55] <DJones> n1md4: AlanBell is you're best bet for that
[10:55] <andylockran> or 199 even :s
[10:55] <selinuxium> andylockran, 'was' the official Ubuntu Professional exam..,.
[10:57] <selinuxium> You can still take the exam in a Prometric Test centre until end of June... but seems a little pointless...
[10:57] <AlanBell> n1md4: o/
[10:57] <n1md4> Ah cool :)
[10:58] <n1md4> AlanBell: sent you a private message, would you like it posted here?  Thought I'd save the channel spam.
[10:58]  * AlanBell flips to window 84
[10:58] <n1md4> heh!
[10:59] <DJones> 84 windows, And I thought 14 windows was enough
[11:05] <n1md4> How can you switch to windows over single digits?
[11:06] <andylockran> alt+q
[11:06] <andylockran> etc
[11:06] <andylockran> or ctrl-p for next window
[11:07] <DJones> n1md4: Or "/window 35" etc
[11:07] <n1md4> Ah!
[11:07] <n1md4> That's what I was looking for, thanks.
[11:07] <DJones> I've got "/w" aliased to "/window" though to make it easier /w 35 :)
[11:14] <dwatkins> wow, qemu is version 0.14, I wonder if it's actually stable yet... ;)
[11:15] <dwatkins> DJones: I assume you can't use a key-combination for that
[11:21] <mungojerry> wow i switched the acrobat reader plugin in firefox for embedded evince for reading pdf's ...notice the difference in speed!
[11:23] <BigRedS> I keep being amused by how crap Adobe's pdf reader plugin is
[11:24] <mungojerry> adobe excel at being crap
[11:26] <mungojerry> does anyone remember anything about vmware gsx? i have an old vmware server hosting a few vm's any i want to find out about the vm's it is running
[11:30] <andylockran> anyone used gluster - looks neat./
[11:34] <MooDoo> mungojerry, not got access to the infrastructure client?
[11:34] <popey> morning all!
[11:34] <MooDoo> morning popey
[11:36] <mungojerry> moodoo, just command line
[11:36] <mungojerry> i've figured out that vmrun list gives me almost what i need
[11:36] <mungojerry> next step migrate to esxi :P
[11:36] <MooDoo> mungojerry, i'm running 3.5....:p
[11:37] <mungojerry> esxi 3.5?
[11:37] <MooDoo> mungojerry, yeah, only have a 32bit processor lol
[11:37] <mungojerry> i installed esx4 last year on a big new install cos it was recommended, then discovered that esx is going away and esxi is the future
[11:37] <mungojerry> although at the time, esxi didn't have certain features
[11:38] <MooDoo> mungojerry, http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/vmware-list-all-running-vms-command.html
[11:38] <mungojerry> esxi 4.1 now has more features which were present in esx
[11:38] <dwatkins> I tried ESXi but the trial is ony 60 days for the client
[11:38] <MooDoo> mungojerry, don't have 64bit cpu lol
[11:38] <MooDoo> dwatkins, are you sure?
[11:39] <mungojerry> what CPU moodoo ? your virtualisation performance must be terrible
[11:39] <dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, the VSphere client said it had 60 days to go, also there was no browser version of the client.
[11:39] <MooDoo> mungojerry, only running 3 vm's on it.....not doing a lot to be honest
[11:39] <mungojerry> ok :P
[11:40] <MooDoo> i'll upgrade when i get another machine to install it onto
[11:40] <dwatkins> MooDoo: also, I only have a single server, so vmware server 2.x seems good enough
[11:40] <mungojerry> dwatkins , the vsphere trial is 60 days but the esxi you can access directly from the vmware windows client, or the web interaface
[11:40] <MooDoo> +1 which is what i do with my stuff
[11:40] <MooDoo> infact i run the client from a vm lol
[11:40] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I tried the web interface, but it just had a link to the client download
[11:40] <mungojerry> i need to do that with my DR site since it's unclear what the licence allows
[11:41] <dwatkins> also, using ESXi wasn't any advantage to me - it still wouldn't integrate with LDAP
[11:41]  * mungojerry is upset that he has to use a windows machine to run vsphere client
[11:41] <dwatkins> mungojerry: me too
[11:41] <MooDoo> you can use remote cli under linux/mac if you wanted to
[11:41] <mungojerry> quite tricky though moodoo -  i am doing live migrations etc
[11:41] <dwatkins> the vmware server I have is a linux machine, I was wondering if there were command line tools to boot, shutdown etc.
[11:42] <dwatkins> boot a vm, that is
[11:42] <mungojerry> the cli is good for scripting iscsi stuff though
[11:42] <mungojerry> dwatkins, there's a CLI vm that you can run
[11:43] <mungojerry> that gives enhances cli features
[11:43] <dwatkins> mungojerry: interesting, I need console access really, for web browsers and server software which uses the browser
[11:45] <mungojerry> see if this helps on the console front: http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/vima/
[11:45] <dwatkins> thanks mungojerry
[11:46] <mungojerry> i tried getting rhev from redhat but they didn't want to sell it to me
[11:46] <mungojerry> i think the product was unfinished, depended on windows AD, and the staff knew nothing about it :P
[11:47] <dwatkins> indeed, mungojerry - sadly there's a problem with PAM libraries which means even though I went to great pains to get the server to authenticate (with ssh for example) with the LDAP domain, I can't use those logins for vmware server
[11:47] <dwatkins> 32-bit libraries only, and I have an x86_64 server
[11:49] <mungojerry> dwatkins, why do you need ldap integration with the vmware server?
[11:50] <dwatkins> mungojerry: just so it's easier to login - so people don't have to remember yet another login
[11:50] <mungojerry> ah, i just read "MooDoo: also, I only have a single server, so vmware server 2.x seems good enough"
[11:51] <mungojerry> i'm in the process of virtualising our whole machine room
[11:51] <MooDoo> yay o/
[11:51] <mungojerry> which has some other non-obvious benefits
[11:52] <mungojerry> besides power & space saving, etc , a well setup system allows redundancy of network switches
[11:53] <dwatkins> mungojerry: yeah, I'm sure you can do a lot of really cool stuff with a big installation
[11:53] <mungojerry> our network switches don't have dual power supplies, so the freedom to poweroff a switch and know that you vmware system is fully redundant is great
[11:54] <dwatkins> what provides that redundancy, MooDoo?
[11:54] <MooDoo> think that's for you mungojerry
[11:54] <mungojerry> :P
[11:55] <mungojerry> setting up virtual nics on the esxi server
[11:55] <dwatkins> aha handy, mungojerry
[11:55] <mungojerry> 1 virtual NIC : 2 physical interfaces
[11:55] <mungojerry> almost seamless redundancy if a nic, switch , or cable fails
[11:55] <dwatkins> Can you also move a virtual machine from one physical host to another without downtime?
[11:55] <mungojerry> oh yes
[11:55] <mungojerry> live migration
[11:56] <dwatkins> that is impressive
[11:56] <MooDoo> vmotion :)
[11:56] <mungojerry> is a feature of vsphere advanced
[11:56] <MooDoo> love that feature
[11:56] <mungojerry> we didn't buy the feature that automatically balances your hosts for performance though
[11:56] <dwatkins> I'm still impressed when I don't need a pair of scissors to open a MicroUSB cable package... ;)
[11:56] <mungojerry> live migration is particularly useful when applying patches to vmware
[11:57] <mungojerry> just move all the vm's off and patch/reboot, with no downtime
[11:57] <mungojerry> repeat and rinse with the other servers
[11:57]  * MooDoo is currently saving for his vmare certification.....
[11:58] <MooDoo> s/vmare/vmware
[11:58] <mungojerry> which course is that?
[11:58] <MooDoo> VCP
[11:58] <mungojerry> i should consider that too
[11:58] <MooDoo> vmware certified professional
[11:58] <mungojerry> ££
[11:58] <mungojerry> ?
[11:58] <MooDoo> couple of k
[11:59] <MooDoo> they won't let you take the exam unless you do a 5 day course.....or something like that.
[11:59] <MooDoo> you can't just take the exam
[11:59] <mungojerry> are you allowed to jump to the VCAP
[11:59] <MooDoo> don't know
[11:59] <mungojerry> probably not...swines
[11:59] <mungojerry> :P
[12:00] <MooDoo> no, you need to be VCP4
[12:00] <MooDoo> http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=16657&ui=www_cert
[12:00] <MooDoo> well that's for dc administration
[12:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: Shame I was looking forward to seeing you ride in on your virtual mare :D
[12:02] <MooDoo> davmor2, as czajkowski would say....oi shush
[12:02] <davmor2> Hah!
[12:02] <mungojerry> virtualisation is a good skill, cos it will surely stay around..unfortunately the skills are rather vendor dependent and release specific :S
[12:03] <czajkowski> it's shrup in fact
[12:03] <mungojerry> i thougt we had bored everybody else into submission :P
[12:03]  * bigcalm looks in
[12:04] <davmor2> czajkowski: I see you talking but you're not here so I can blatantly ignore you :D
[12:04] <czajkowski> I am here
[12:07]  * MooDoo hugs czajkowski just coz he's feeling brave today
[12:07]  * mungojerry wonders what the worst named application in ubuntu is. baobab is a contender methinks
[12:08] <mungojerry> and choqok
[12:09] <bigcalm> Mono ;)
[12:09] <MooDoo> pidgin
[12:09] <MooDoo> :D
[12:10] <directhex> libcaca
[12:10] <directhex> wait.....
[12:10] <directhex> toilet
[12:10] <mungojerry> =-O
[12:11] <mungojerry> somebody asked me to install an app called sextractor
[12:11] <DJones> isn't there an app called pornview as well
[12:11] <DJones> !info pornview
[12:11] <daubers> Bah, beat me to it
[12:12] <mungojerry> !info sextractor
[12:12] <daubers> No-ones mentioned the GIMP
[12:12] <mungojerry> true!
[12:12] <BigRedS> I always find it fun when I introduce the gimp ot people
[12:12] <mungojerry> for about 1 second
[12:13] <BigRedS> I always find it fun when I introduce the gimp ot people
[12:13] <BigRedS> oop. up+enter in the wrong pane
[12:15] <ali1234> what exactly is the reason for history on an irc client anyway?
[12:16] <MooDoo> in case you need to repeat something quickly?
[12:16] <MooDoo> in case you need to repeat something quickly?
[12:16] <MooDoo> like that :)
[12:16] <ali1234> so it's just for spamming?
[12:17] <mungojerry> it could also be used to correct typos, although substition s/old/new/ is better etiquette
[12:17] <MooDoo> well i'd use it if i needed to repeat a link to someone and didn't want to type it all out again
[12:17] <ali1234> people who correct every typo they make are a bit annoying
[12:17] <dwatkins> I tend to use it quite a lot, also it's handy if I want to tell different groups of people the same thing.
[12:17] <bigcalm> mungojerry: not everybody knows what s/a/b/ is
[12:17] <mungojerry> running natty is rewarding since there's always 200MB of updates waiting each day :)
[12:17] <BigRedS> nah, but IRC's as good a place as any to see it
[12:18] <ali1234> !info libqt4-dev natty
[12:19] <mungojerry> xserver-xorg seems to be getting daily activity
[12:20] <dwatkins> I noticed there's been an update, mungojerry - I wonder why it's suddenly so active
[12:20] <mungojerry> compiz + xserver having been very unstable for me
[12:20] <mungojerry> getting marginally better though
[12:20] <BigRedS> there's been lots of complaints about xserver in natty, I thought
[12:21] <mungojerry> i'm giving unity a good go and will report bugs, although not convinced yet, but improving all the time
[12:28]  * popey notes he was unfollowed by kirrus 
[12:28]  * popey sobs uncontrollably
[12:31] <BigRedS> kirrus has just left the building. I'll make him feel guilty when he gets back
[12:33]  * soneill follows popey just so that he can unfollow him shortly after
[12:34] <gord> following popey is part of my job, how else would i know about all the things that are wrong with ubuntu ;)
[12:40] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:41] <mungojerry> radiators in my office are cold...going outside to warm up
[12:41] <pr0ph3t> is there a program available for ubuntu that would allow me to change the order of the pages of a pdf file?
[12:45] <dwatkins> pr0ph3t: I gather there are many PDF editors for Ubuntu
[12:46] <mungojerry> i've used command line pdftk in the past but there are certainly GUIs such as pdf-shuffler available in the software centre
[12:47] <pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I tried a few, even tried to convert the file with calibre but it ends up being a big job to sort it out
[12:47] <pr0ph3t> maybe pdf-shuffler
[12:47] <dwatkins> What do you need to do, pr0ph3t?
[12:47] <pr0ph3t> I simply need to change the positions of a few pages
[12:47] <pr0ph3t> page 15 is actually page 18 and many other
[12:48] <dwatkins> I'm just wondering if it might be easier to get the document changed at the source
[12:48] <dwatkins> as for PDF editors, there are lists of them online, I can't vouch for any in particular, though.
[12:49] <pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I tried a few but the document needs heavy editing not just page shifting unfortunately (when I try to edit it at least)
[12:50] <pr0ph3t> otherwise it's just a normal pdf file with the page order a bit mixed
[12:50] <mungojerry> to simply switch order of pages in a doc then pdf-shuffler is simple
[12:53] <mungojerry> it's difficult to submit compiz bugs when it crashes because you can't type or even run alt-f2
[12:53] <mungojerry> :(
[12:53] <pr0ph3t> mungojerry, I added the run application to the panel
[12:54] <pr0ph3t> or the terminal
[12:56] <mungojerry> everything disappears when compiz crash :P
[12:56] <mungojerry> managed to type in the firefox window now ..
[13:01] <davmor2> mungojerry: is this on natty?
[13:05] <davmor2> mungojerry: if it's on natty one of 2 things should happen 1: a box appears saying restart compiz or you need to drop into a tty (alt-ctrl-F1, for example) and type in "unity --reset"
[13:06] <davmor2> + or 2:
[13:16] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[13:17] <popey> lo
[13:17]  * popey tickles gord
[13:18] <kirrus> Of course, BigRedS left the building just as I entered...
[13:18]  * popey suspects kirrus and BigRedS are the same person.
[13:18] <popey> never see them together
[13:18] <kirrus> popey: yup. Was trying to drop the amount of noise in my twitter feeds...
[13:19] <popey> I am officially "noise" :)
[13:20]  * BigRedS installs the Gimp
[13:20] <kirrus> popey: no you're not, but you almost never @ me, and I use twitter more for conversation :)
[13:21] <kirrus> http://yfrog.com/gz13006326j
[13:21] <kirrus> poor BigRedS looking very confused
[13:23] <popey> heh
[13:24] <BigRedS> I'm not used to being accosted by an iphone as I walk into the building
[13:26] <mungojerry> davmor2 unity --reset, cheers i'll try that next time -
[13:27] <gord> mungojerry, davmor2 - actually unity --reset rests all the settings, just unity will do
[13:34] <davmor2> gord: oh nice tip
[13:52]  * daubers prepares a long shouting at the VW garage
[13:53] <daubers> Top tip! Never deal with the sales people at Ridgeway VW in Newbury
[13:54] <mungojerry> you mean sales people at $CAR_DEALER in $TOWN
[13:55] <popey> $RESPONSE
[13:55] <daubers> mungojerry: Bah, just had an interesting chat with the DVLA, apparently I'm not the registered owner of my car. I suspect the paperwork is still on the sales guys desk after 3 months
[13:56] <popey> you've sent off your part?
[13:56] <daubers> Yup
[13:56] <mungojerry> lol, well he's got his money already, job done for him
[13:56] <mungojerry> interestingly i went into car giant in west london and they all use opensuse on the desktop
[13:57] <daubers> Still got the little green slip too
[13:57] <Baikonur> "The Real Hustle investigated over fake scam allegations"
[13:57] <Baikonur> oh the irony
[13:57] <jpds> mungojerry: Waren sie Deutsch?
[13:57] <DJones> mungojerry: I can understand that feeling, working at a company where must of the staff are sales people, once the sale is made, paperwork does seem to take a back seat to the next sale they're chasing
[13:58] <popey> mungojerry: which one?
[13:58] <popey> hello jaustin
[13:58] <popey> \o/ arm :)
[13:58] <mungojerry> jpds , popey, i think there's only one cargiant
[13:58] <popey> ahh
[13:59] <mungojerry> whoever installed their IT system realised that the main function is through a web browser, so why not give everyone a free desktop
[13:59] <jaustin> hi popey
[13:59] <mungojerry> when u buy a car, they process everything through a web interface
[14:00] <mungojerry> the funny thing i my wife noticed they were running linux before me :)
[14:02] <BigRedS> mm, I noticed toolstation use something gnomey on their POSs
[14:02] <mungojerry> shuttleworth just commented on bug 713087
[14:03] <mungojerry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/713087
[14:03] <mungojerry> quiet, botty
[14:03] <BigRedS> it's bugs like that that're putting me off unity, tbh
[14:04] <BigRedS> this far in, and it still takes a bug report to get a resizable dock?
[14:05] <gord> BigRedS, we haven't even hit feature freeze yet
[14:05] <mungojerry> bigreds, how far in are they though? still a v long way to go , except that development is being done in the open
[14:05] <BigRedS> gord: no, I know. But it's shipping in April, isn't it? I was just expecting it to be more feature complete by now
[14:06] <BigRedS> hopefully, development will be much quicker than I think :)
[14:07] <gord> BigRedS, you are welcome to help out
[14:08] <mungojerry> can someone help me with a unity question? in docky, when i have multiple terminal windows open, i right click on the icon to get a list of terminal window titles so i can choose which session i want to bring to focus. how can i do that in unity?
[14:09] <popey> oooh, good one, i have no idea how to do that
[14:09] <davmor2> mungojerry: you should be able to left click on it and they all apear
[14:09]  * bigcalm pokes css with a stick
[14:09] <hoover> hey biggie
[14:09] <mungojerry> davmor2, i have 40 terminal windows open, i only want to choose the ssh session to server4 not all 40
[14:09] <bigcalm> Howdy hoovie :)
[14:10] <gord> mungojerry, its an expose thing, you click twice (or once if a terminal is already focused) then select the one you want
[14:10] <gord> there is no feature that lists the titles of all your windows
[14:10] <mungojerry> :( this is pretty much what i do all working day
[14:10] <gord> mungojerry, you might want to invest in terminator, its much more suited to what you want
[14:10] <bigcalm> vertical-align isn't doing what it's meant to
[14:15] <mungojerry> gord, thanks , i checked it out a while back, but wasn't really fitting my needs with the amount of sessions I have open. if window list is not available and i really wanted to use unity in spite of it, then i'd have to use tabs, but its sad when upgrades force you to work differently,
[14:16] <BigRedS> gord: Once I'm back in a position where I have a PC that I can afford to be not working (soon!), I'll give natty another go on real hardware. But right now having a working PC is more important (to me) than a working unity.
[14:17] <directhex> i think i'll delay updating to natty for longer than usual this cycle
[14:17] <popey> I'm kinda regretting it
[14:18] <popey> gord: did you see my mention of windows creeping across the screen?
[14:24] <gord> popey, nope
[14:25] <popey> if i have two windows open not-full screen, and move one over to the left obscuring the unity bar thing, then alt tab repeatedly between them the windows creep over the screen
[14:26] <mungojerry> popey, i can replicate that too
[14:28] <popey> I'll file a bug when i get home
[14:28] <popey> or if you do, I'll confirm it
[14:28] <popey> I'll probably screencast it to show
[14:28] <mungojerry> all yours
[14:28] <popey> "thanks
[14:28] <gord> can't reproduce here
[14:28] <popey> :)
[14:30] <gord> grr, server won't get to a point where i can ssh in
[14:30] <gord> fustrating
[14:31] <mungojerry> have just seen a clip about the motorola atrix phone - android on the move, then plus into laptop dock and runs a splashtop style linux OS
[14:33] <popey> looks expensive
[14:34] <AlanBell> looks bigger than a streak
[14:34] <mungojerry> any RMS fans: http://www.theiet.org/local/uk/london/central-Mar2011.cfm
[14:34] <popey> "fans"
[14:34] <mungojerry> :D
[14:35] <mungojerry> 2000-2130 Networking : opportunity to hand out Ubuntu CDs :P
[14:35] <mungojerry> RMS would prefer Debian of course
[14:36] <BigRedS> I thought he disapproved of debian too?
[14:36] <BigRedS> up til squeeze at least, for the proprietary firmware
[14:36] <directhex> rms disapproves of debian
[14:36] <mungojerry> what does he use then?
[14:36] <BigRedS> gnusense?
[14:36] <directhex> he doesn't consider it a Free distro, because it's possible to use non-free firmware & licenses
[14:37] <AlanBell> Congratulations! You have successfully registered to attend this event and you have been allocated a place.
[14:37] <mungojerry> :)
[14:37] <mungojerry> thought u guys might like it
[14:37] <directhex> i.e. even though Debian is a completely Free distro, he hates the mere *ability* to choose to use non-free software, so disrecommends debian
[14:38] <mungojerry> if RMS didn't exist he'd have to be invented.
[14:38] <ali1234> so what distribution actively prevents you from using non-free software?
[14:38] <gord> okay thats just crap, ubuntu server if it doesn't get all the way through a boot (moved some stuff, power cable got tugged a few times), on the next boot i sware, it will just sit at grub
[14:38] <AlanBell> debian has the non-free and contrib repo
[14:38] <popey> there is one that modifies firefox so it cant use non-free extensions
[14:38] <mungojerry> Emacs OS
[14:39] <gord> so i had to go and find a monitor and a keyboard, plug them in, just to find out it needed me to press return
[14:39] <popey> gord: yeah, it also sits there if a disk cant be mounted
[14:39] <popey> e.g. usb disk not attached
[14:39] <BigRedS> directhex: his wording, I think, is that it's too easy, and almost encouraged
[14:39] <ali1234> i wasn't aware that elf format had a "licence" tag
[14:39] <ali1234> i know kernel modules have it
[14:39] <BigRedS> it's always *possible* to use non-free, but he'd rather it was less easy than uncommenting and apt-get updating
[14:39] <directhex> BigRedS, "o noez, computers aren't hard enough :'("
[14:40] <BigRedS> directhex: well, he's an emacs user, we know his views on ease of use :)
[14:40] <gord> does Daviey work on ubuntu server? i'm not even sure, i feel like someone needs to be yelled at
[14:40] <directhex> you can't even install debian anymore without an extra usb stick containing all the useful bits they stripped, and he moans it's too easy... ¬_¬
[14:41]  * Daviey runs.
[14:41] <BigRedS> I thought there was going to be an official roll of debian isos that did contain the non-free firmware, it'll just be listed as an alternative?
[14:41] <BigRedS> someone, somewhere, told me that was the/a plan
[14:41] <Daviey> gord, Sounds like you need to yell at foundations, not server :)
[14:43] <gord> Daviey, but you are closer!
[14:43] <gord> geez its hard to tab complete da* people
[14:45] <ali1234> anyway, i've been to an RMS gig before. the best part is the QA section where all the butt-hurt software engineers in the audience complain about how they can't make a living from free software and he just sits there and tells them he doesn't care, he's not going to pay for their software either way, while looking like troll-face guy
[14:45] <dutchie> haha
[14:45] <Daviey> gord, looks like cjwatson is nearer to you than me :)
[14:45] <dutchie> i saw knuth last week
[14:45] <Daviey> gord, pay him a visit :)
[14:46] <dutchie> knuth was upset when no-one laughed at his naming one of the nodes in a directed graph the "open source"
[14:47] <mungojerry> http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/ : To initialize the machine and boot, it uses PMON. Above that, it uses gNewSense, one of the totally free GNU/Linux distros. Jan 23 2010
[14:51] <BigRedS> I do like that his way round accidentally hitting the touchpad is to just not run X
[14:52] <mungojerry> he sounds like one of the professors un my dept
[14:52] <mungojerry> LOLliest thing i've read all day :)
[14:59] <gord> things i learnt, the ubuntu one music store actually sells music videos too
[14:59] <BigRedS> people buy music videos?
[15:00] <gord> sure, why not?
[15:00] <directhex> because they're meant to be a promotional tool for the music, i.e. they're adverts
[15:00] <davmor2> gord: but can you buy them and play them?
[15:00] <directhex> but yes, i've bought some music videos before
[15:00] <BigRedS> just wasn't something that had ocurred to me, really. I don't know anyone who sits down to watch a music video
[15:01] <gord> davmor2, seems you can, has a bunch of formats, mpeg was one of them
[15:01] <gord> not tried it though
[15:01] <gord> i just wanted kim wildes kids in america
[15:01] <DJones> BigRedS: I guess that gets rid of MTV's income streams then :)
[15:01] <davmor2> gord: that's the crunch it might be disabled
[15:02] <gord> davmor2, nope, you are warned that its not an mp3 but thats bout it
[15:02] <davmor2> BigRedS: there are more music channels on sky and virgin than any other type
[15:05] <DJones> davmor2: Lies, Lies, Have you seen how many price drop/bid up/we've got tacky junk to sell to mugs/customes gullible enough to buy it  type channels there are
[15:07] <BigRedS> there's depressingly few channels with actual good programming on :(
[15:07] <davmor2> DJones: nearly as many as music channels I'm sure :D
[15:13] <Adriannom> lo
[15:17] <Adriannom> anyone know if the hp multiseat t100 is any good with ubuntu? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/12454-12454-321959-338927-3641157-4084245-4084246-4097911.html - or does anyone have any alternative suggestions for having a screen in both the living room & kitchen running off the pc in the attic?
[15:17] <DJones> 13:28 < soreau> monkeyD: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
[15:17] <DJones> Grr, stupid middle click
[15:20] <popey> Adriannom: dunno but their specs lie
[15:20] <popey> "http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13526_na/13526_na.html"
[15:21] <popey> says "USB Type A connector" but the diagram shows a "B" connector
[15:22] <Adriannom> heh, the detailed specs don't seem accurate eitehr
[15:22] <Adriannom> mentions ethernet port but i'm not sure it has any
[15:22] <popey> looks like the server does
[15:22] <popey> but the "clients" all connect via usb
[15:23] <Adriannom> i see
[15:27] <gord> Adriannom, my suggestion would be an elaborate set of mirrors
[15:28] <popey> pulleys! you forgot pulleys!
[15:30] <Adriannom> lol gord
[15:30] <Adriannom> the pulleys instead of a switch for the kb and mouse?
[15:31] <Adriannom> found something vague on ltsp hardware.  maybe it's all vague because it's all plug and play or something
[15:32] <Adriannom> still, i hate to guess
[15:34] <Myrtti> ho-hum.
[15:34] <popey> apparently they are DisplayLink adapters inside those boxes
[15:34] <popey> inside the t150s
[15:37] <Adriannom> popey, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[15:37] <popey>  no idea :)
[15:37] <popey> just gives you something to google for ;)
[15:37]  * AlanBell has a displaylink adapter
[15:38] <Adriannom> thanks :)
[15:38] <daubers> DisplayLink is HDMI without the content protection stream afaik
[15:38] <AlanBell> daubers: nope
[15:38] <daubers> AlanBell: Thats what the man from tosh said it was
[15:38] <Adriannom> usb to dvi or vga by the look
[15:38] <AlanBell> it is a framebuffer on a USB device
[15:38] <popey> yup
[15:39] <AlanBell> daubers: those words might be used in different contexts, but this thing is a framebuffer on USB
[15:39] <daubers> Ah, I'm thinking of displayport aren't I
[15:39] <AlanBell> probably
[15:39] <AlanBell> plug it into ubuntu and you get the green screen which means the kernel has recognised it
[15:39] <AlanBell> with some messing about you can get X to kinda work on it
[15:40] <daubers> The morrisons cafe is rubbish
[15:40] <AlanBell> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libdlo <- displaylink driver mailing list
[15:41] <bigcalm> czajkowski: Pendulum: http://s7ondemand4.scene7.com/is/image/Signet/4461444?$detail$
[15:42] <czajkowski> bigcalm: ohhhh
[15:42] <czajkowski> bigcalm: very pretty
[15:42] <bigcalm> :)
[15:43] <bigcalm> Got it on Saturday, Hayley is a very happy girly :)
[15:43] <czajkowski> bigcalm: did ye pick it out together ?
[15:43] <DJones> bigcalm: I bet you don't get many of those in a Haribo packet
[15:43] <popey> heh
[15:43] <bigcalm> DJones: haha
[15:43] <bigcalm> czajkowski: we did
[15:43] <czajkowski> bigcalm: so happy for ye, well done
[15:44] <daubers> bigcalm: Blimey
[15:44] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I took her to every jewllers in Worcester. We ended up with very sore feet, but happy none the less
[15:44]  * daubers got his missus' engagement ring from ebay
[15:44] <Pendulum> bigcalm: nice :)
[15:44] <popey> very nice bigcalm
[15:45] <bigcalm> Thank you :)
[15:47] <Lunchie> Lo people
[15:47] <daubers> bigcalm: Got any date for the big day?
[15:48] <bigcalm> Everybody keeps asking that, most strange
[15:48] <popey> :)
[15:48] <czajkowski> bigcalm: why strange?
[15:48] <bigcalm> No date set
[15:48] <popey> ours was exactly 1 year
[15:48] <daubers> Ours was 4.5 years
[15:48] <bigcalm> We're still saving for a mortgage deposit
[15:48] <popey> wow
[15:49] <BigRedS> kernely people: what's the difference between HIGHMEM4G and HIGHMEM64G (besides the '6')?
[15:49] <czajkowski> popey: how long had ye being going out before that ?
[15:49] <BigRedS> why would one choose just the 4?
[15:49] <daubers> bigcalm: Top tip, keep an eye on any wedding dress shops you pass, sales are definatley worth it in this case
[15:49] <bigcalm> daubers: noted
[15:50]  * daubers payed £70 in train fares for his missu to have a look in a designer dress shop in swansea as they had a sale on. £1500 dress for £450 \o/
[15:52] <popey> czajkowski: first spoke to Clare in 1997, moved in together in 1998, engaged in 1999, married in 2000 :)
[15:52] <kaushal> Hi
[15:52] <daubers> I started secondary school in '97
[15:52] <czajkowski> popey: awww
[15:52] <kaushal> whats the best method to use IE on Ubuntu ?
[15:52] <popey> i had the ring made and took it on holiday to propose
[15:53] <kaushal> I need it to use for ILO2
[15:53] <popey> kaushal: http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
[15:53] <czajkowski> popey: you're a right old sweetie aren't you
[15:53] <popey> heh
[15:53] <bigcalm> That rocks
[15:54] <popey> took it in my camera bag through the scanners, was scared they would want me to open it up
[15:54]  * daubers might go wander around PC world and maplins shortly
[15:55] <czajkowski> popey: that would have been embarassing
[15:56]  * mungojerry was mocked in Dixons once by vista-fanbio staff
[15:56] <daubers> popey: If you talk to the security men nicely they'll let you explain it in another room. My brother did that, but put a note in the bag saying "This is an engagement ring, if you need to know more, please don't ask in front of the missus" and got hauled into another room at the airport
[15:56] <popey> heh
[15:57] <popey> luckily they didnt open it
[15:57] <kaushal> popey: Thanks
[15:57] <popey> i had it in my pocket on the first night of the holiday
[15:57] <popey> we went all around the town looking for places to eat
[15:57] <popey> none seemed appropriate
[15:57] <popey> I didnt want to sit on plastic patio furniture to propose ;)
[15:57] <daubers> He also got in trouble in glasgow by sneezing in the check in queue, and when someone gave him a funny look just turned to him and said "Bloody SARs"
[15:58] <mungojerry> can anyone explain what the logic is surrounding going-down-on-one-knee?
[15:58] <popey> hehe
[15:58] <popey> logic!?
[15:58] <mungojerry> tradition?
[15:58] <daubers> mungojerry: You make yourself subservient. It's the whole dominance thing in reverse
[15:58] <popey> you're trying to attribute _logic_ to a tradition?
[15:59] <czajkowski> *grin*
[15:59] <mungojerry> i don't understand it at all
[15:59] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i do believe it has something to do with, you humbling yourself.
[15:59] <czajkowski> I do love the conversaations in this channel :)
[15:59] <popey> we ended up in the hotel restaurant
[15:59] <popey> we talked about how we were happy
[15:59] <shauno> genuflection is in most cultures.  anything that dips you below their height.  bowing, etc
[15:59]  * daubers proposed on the hill behind swansea bay looking out over the lights of the city
[15:59] <popey> i popped the question after the meal
[15:59] <popey> then the waiter brought some champagne over, unprompted ;)
[16:00] <daubers> heh
[16:00] <mungojerry> nice touch
[16:00] <brobostigon> cool.
[16:00] <popey> clare said "I just got engaged"
[16:00] <popey> "Yes madam, I know" :)
[16:00] <brobostigon> :)
[16:00] <daubers> right, 50 minutes left until I can get my car. Time to go wind up some PC World numpties
[16:00] <popey> \o/
[16:00]  * mungojerry on guildford mount, overlooking london, not on one knee though :P
[16:00] <brobostigon> daubers: have fun, :)
[16:01] <shauno> on a gondola in venice, because stereotypes save me from my lack of imagination
[16:02] <czajkowski> such a romantic bunch in here, ye'd never think it at times :)
[16:03] <mungojerry> also destroys the myth of the sad single socially awkard geeks using linux
[16:03]  * brobostigon hasnt found the right girl yet.
[16:03] <popey> I'll tell you how sad I am..
[16:03] <mungojerry> minecraft...i know :P
[16:03] <popey> I actually saw Clare for years before speaking to her
[16:03] <popey> would look at her lustfully across the pub
[16:03] <popey> never said a word, didnt know her name
[16:03] <mungojerry> unrequited love is the strongest kind
[16:04] <Azelphur> mungojerry: hey, I'm a sad single socially awkward linux using geek :D
[16:04] <popey> eventually I broke up with a g/f and went out on the beer with mates, she was at the night club, I got drunk and got her number :)
[16:04] <popey> \o/
[16:04] <brobostigon> :)
[16:04] <czajkowski> popey: \o/
[16:04] <Myrtti> I've been proposed at a bus station
[16:05] <czajkowski> mungojerry: aye most of the guys in here are married or well on their way their.
[16:05] <Myrtti> I feel old now, it was 12 years ago
[16:05] <mungojerry> maybe ubuntu users are the subset of linux users who aren't sad :-|
[16:06] <brobostigon> mungojerry: interesting theory, i certainly am not, when i have my "ubuntu guru" t-shirt on.
[16:07] <mungojerry> the first gift i gave my mrs when we started going out was a ITV digital monkey then ..very sought after at the time. now they are a couple: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/5078902395/
[16:11] <ikonia> popey: ping
[16:11] <Myrtti> I got an O'Reilly Vi pocket reference :-D
[16:11] <popey> ikonia: pong
[16:11] <ikonia> popey: got 2 minutes please ?
[16:11] <popey> sure
[16:11] <shauno> I met my wife during the 2006 world cup.  she was a barmaid, and I was the only one drinking at 10am michigan time :/
[16:11] <popey> hehe
[16:11] <popey> awesome
[16:12] <Myrtti> then I was lured to the hotel room with a promise of reflashing my phone with firmware that fixes GPS lock problems
[16:12] <popey> lol
[16:12] <Myrtti> it did, which was nice
[16:12] <popey> "Come up to my room and look at my ROMs!"
[16:12] <popey> better than etchings/puppies/sweets, that's for sure
[16:13] <Myrtti> well he had windows laptop!
[16:13] <Myrtti> I couldn't do it on my Ubuntu
[16:13] <popey> awww
[16:13] <Azelphur> haha
[16:13] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/2897182206/ and he took a picture while doing the flashing...
[16:13] <Myrtti> with the vi pocket reference
[16:15] <dwatkins> ace, Myrtti - I have to put up with bad quality printouts for vi reference
[16:17] <Myrtti> we've got quite a collection of pocket references between the two of us, both in paper and epubs
[16:17] <Myrtti> the pocket ref ebooks are nice on Aldiko, they're more pocketable that way than the paper ones ;-)
[16:17] <shauno> I use safarionline.  rather nifty.
[16:18] <Azelphur> I just use a text editor that doesn't require a reference manual to use
[16:18]  * Azelphur runs
[16:19] <Myrtti> Azelphur: yeah, I use emacs, the vi pocket ref was to vean me from Emacs ;-)
[16:19] <Azelphur> haha
[16:19] <Myrtti> then on the third date or so I had my pink emacs reference babydoll t-shirt on :-D
[16:20] <Myrtti> just to sneer at him :->
[16:20] <Azelphur> haha
[16:20] <czajkowski> Myrtti: :)
[16:22] <Myrtti> I still think the birthday pressie for my 30th was the best. Too bad I've not had too much opportunities to use it
[16:22] <Myrtti> Viglen MPC-L ♥
[16:23] <bigcalm> Mine is gathering dust
[16:24] <bigcalm> Will find a use for it one day
[16:24] <Myrtti> mine is in UK where I don't actually have that much use for it
[16:24] <czajkowski> Myrtti: you should move to the UK :)
[16:24] <bigcalm> Agreed
[16:25] <bigcalm> More hours of sun light over here for a start
[16:25] <Myrtti> czajkowski: alas BF in Germany every other week and now this nightmare here have postponed the plans to unknown future
[16:25] <bigcalm> s/sun light/day light/
[16:25] <czajkowski> Myrtti: feck :(
[16:25] <Myrtti> bigcalm: we've got nicer weather
[16:25] <Daviey> I've got one in the garage that plays the big ben chimes on the hour, each hour, with the correct number of chimes...
[16:25] <Daviey> <-- wasteful
[16:26] <DJones> bigcalm: Have you seen this about double summertime plans http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12523164 Sunset around 10:30pm ish, or 11:30pm in northern scotland
[16:27] <mungojerry> anyone still use their joggler?
[16:27] <Azelphur> mungojerry: I'm planning to
[16:27] <mungojerry> djones thats a big vote winner for me
[16:27] <Azelphur> my microsd card broke, ordered a new one in
[16:28] <DJones> mungojerry: I'm not too sure about it, thats maybe a bit too light at night going to bed
[16:29] <mungojerry> better than light at 6am which is what happens march-november
[16:29] <mungojerry> we waste too much daylight in our bed
[16:29] <mungojerry> then its dark at 4pm in winter
[16:29] <DJones> I prefer light in the morning
[16:32] <mungojerry> i have to slap on eye-mask at 5am even with blackout blinds in my room
[16:32] <brobostigon> i reckon my self-confidence, has something to do with me believeing i am a failiure.
[16:33] <mungojerry> brobostigon : reminds me of a tweet i read today: If  you talked to others the way you talk to yourself, would you have any friends?
[16:34] <brobostigon> mungojerry: interesting,
[16:34]  * mungojerry wonders whether trying a xen -> vmware VM migration is a good thing to start at 4.35pm
[16:34] <mungojerry> stupid xen kernel
[16:51] <Daviey> mungojerry, nah, leave it until Friday afternoon.
[16:51] <mungojerry> sysadmin's golden rule :P
[16:52] <mungojerry> i've decided it's more troublesome to migrate a xen vm than installing fresh server.
[16:52] <Daviey> There is actually a 'law' about doing that... but the name has slipped my mind
[16:53] <mungojerry> i certainly follow the sysadmin golden rule of no system changes after friday noon, unless you are staying late and weekend working
[16:55] <Daviey> mungojerry, Warsaw's Second Law.
[16:56] <mungojerry> i learned something today
[16:56] <mungojerry> don't tell my boss it's 3pm though
[16:57] <mungojerry> i've always told him it's 12...and if any alcohol is in your bloodstream, just go home instead
[16:57] <mungojerry> i learned that by trying to complete programming labs at uni after sampling the boddingtons in the adjoining pub
[16:58]  * Azelphur drinks some ubuntu cola
[16:58] <Daviey> boddingtons?!
[16:59] <bigcalm> Ew
[16:59] <brobostigon> agreed.
[16:59] <mungojerry> do they still make boddies?
[16:59] <bigcalm> Sadly so
[16:59] <brobostigon> mungojerry: yes.
[16:59] <mungojerry> it tastes lovely in manchester
[16:59] <mungojerry> maybe it doesn't travel well
[16:59] <bigcalm> The adverts were amusing
[17:00] <bigcalm> There's so much better out there
[17:00] <mungojerry> yeah, they made it taste better
[17:00] <Daviey> probably safer to drink than the Manchester tap water.
[17:00] <brobostigon> bigcalm: timothy taylor landlord, :)
[17:00] <mungojerry> or the NUS lager
[17:00] <mungojerry> SU lager
[17:02] <mungojerry> the comp sci dept in manchester had 2 pubs next door which no other students seemed to go in. good for playing pool and crystal maze, bad for socializing and going in for a quick one at 2pm and coming out at closing
[17:04] <mungojerry> also next to manchester computing centre - isn't that where the ubuntu manchester meetups are?
[17:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you following Mark Tweets?
[17:06] <AlanBell> yup
[17:06] <czajkowski> seems to have gone very well in the Cabinet office today :D
[17:06] <AlanBell> yup
[17:10] <czajkowski> http://twitter.com/#!/Mark_Antony/status/39733145326731264  great news!
[17:11] <jpds> czajkowski: "Good news, everyone" is the saying.
[17:11] <shauno> holymoly that's an abusive background
[17:20] <AlanBell> czajkowski: that is lots of good tweets!
[17:20] <kazade> "Open Government consciously includes Open Source as well as Open Standards, and this is being driven directly by the Coalition Government" ... well, I guess they'd eventually have to do something right..
[17:21] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I thought so too
[17:21] <czajkowski> more info tomorrow if I get a blog post out as well
[17:21]  * czajkowski does love working for her company 
[17:21] <czajkowski> though got offerend a testing job back home this week
[17:21] <czajkowski> and possible GOOG today
[17:21] <czajkowski> ;)
[17:22] <AlanBell> are you coming to the BCS thing tomorrow with Tariq of the home office?
[17:22] <czajkowski> AlanBell: time ?
[17:22] <AlanBell> or is Mark?
[17:22] <AlanBell> 6PM Southampton street
[17:23] <czajkowski> AlanBell: have you got a link or someting
[17:23] <czajkowski> *something
[17:24] <AlanBell> http://ossg.bcs.org/
[17:41] <shauno> feels kinda silly raising "nothing's broken for 6 hours" as a trouble ticket.  It's quiet.  Too quiet.
[18:03] <HazRPG> wow!
[18:03] <HazRPG> Wine seriously has done some serious work over the years!
[18:03]  * HazRPG loves it
[18:03] <HazRPG> also, hey all :)
[18:03] <brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
[18:04] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hey :)
[18:04] <brobostigon> o/
[18:04] <HazRPG> brobostigon: steam, and my usual games actually work in ubuntu!
[18:04] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yay.
[18:04] <HazRPG> I was insanely shocked!
[18:04] <brobostigon> :)
[18:04]  * MartijnVdS makes some spinach.. something
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> this:  http://blog.garion.org/2011/01/31/recipe-guild-master-spinach-pie/
[18:05] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I mean last version I recall of using was 0.9.x
[18:05] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hurray :D
[18:05] <brobostigon> !info wine
[18:05] <zleap> hi
[18:05] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ah,
[18:05] <HazRPG> yeah version 1.2.2 is the one I have currently (beta)
[18:05] <brobostigon> evening zleap
[18:05] <zleap> how are you
[18:05] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I never knew it finally came into an actual release version
[18:06] <brobostigon> zleap: emotionally unstable, and stressed, how about you?
[18:06] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
[18:06] <HazRPG> works so much better than I remember it too, actually showing icons for executables n everything!
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's good food: it has bacon, it has spinach, it has eggs :)
[18:06] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
[18:06] <zleap> I am good
[18:06] <brobostigon> brb, foodings.
[18:06] <zleap> looking to try and get a 11.04 lauch party in paignton even if its a mini one
[18:06] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: In egypt we eat something with spinach, and normally I hate spinach, which is really nice sort of similar to that :)
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> zleap: just you, by yourself, in the pub :)
[18:07] <HazRPG> so for the first time in a while, I'm actually booted in ubuntu purely right now :D
[18:07] <HazRPG> currently moving my project files and other bits n bobs :)
[18:07] <zleap> I am helping ast a local youth music venue,  so I am asking if we can do it there
[18:08] <HazRPG> zleap: awesome :)
[18:08] <zleap> Live music + stage
[18:08] <zleap> willl ask this week properly, i have e-mailed on facebook but need to ask in person
[18:08] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[18:09] <zleap> sup Myrtti
[18:09] <Myrtti> I think I'll go to shower and then to bed in a bit
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> zleap: I used to volunteer at a place like that, got me loads of good photo ops of bands :)
[18:09] <zleap> cool
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> zleap: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157608545647117/
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> I love this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/2989312895/in/set-72157608545647117/
[18:10] <HazRPG> brobostigon: the only thing that's bugging me intensely though is the fact that fullscreen applications seem to span over my two screens, such an odd and irrational behaviour (if I recall, has something to do with the nvidia drivers)
[18:10] <HazRPG> anyone know if there's a work around for that - mainly for flash if anything?
[18:10] <shauno> I can't offer much more than "yes"  :)
[18:10] <HazRPG> Myrtti: hey :)
[18:10] <zleap> nice, lots of emotion in that
[18:10] <HazRPG> Myrtti: /waves
[18:11] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah same, I use to DJ between bands n stuff, was fun :)
[18:11] <HazRPG> shauno: for the whole fullscreen workaround thing?
[18:12] <shauno> HazRPG: I know it exists.  I can't fill in much details because it'd be memory from 6-7 years ago
[18:12] <HazRPG> I can imagine it'll be some sort of config editing :)
[18:12] <HazRPG> shauno: heh :P
[18:12] <zleap> this place is like that,  they do rock school so helps local kids learn music, recording and performance etc
[18:12] <shauno> I've a feeling it's something to do with the xinerama flag in X, so I'd feed that to google
[18:13] <shauno> twinview (the nvidia way) vs xinerama (the X way) can be odd
[18:14] <daubers> Woot, swanky bluetooth car kits are swanky
[18:14] <dwatkins> hi peoples :)
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> \o dwatkins
[18:15] <dwatkins> o/ MartijnVdS
[18:16] <dwatkins> I trust this evening finds everyone well
[18:16] <dwatkins> HazRPG: have you installed the latest flash plugin? there was an update recently which addressed some fullscreen issues, it might help
[18:17] <HazRPG> dwatkins: I use chrome, so it automatically installs flash if I recall - however just checked update-manager and I have no updates, so one would assume I'm using the latest
[18:17]  * daubers puts Captain Scarlet on the telle
[18:18] <dwatkins> This link: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html will show the flash player version, HazRPG
[18:19] <HazRPG> dwatkins: the issue I have (along with games) is that when in fullscreen, it either tries to span the two screens (which is amazing! however the ~2" black gap between screens looks awkward!), or it tries to render in fullscreen on one screen but using the same aspect ratio of the two screens combined - so what you see is a strange widescreen effect on one screen
[18:19] <dwatkins> If it's 10.2 or above, you have pretty much the latest.
[18:19] <HazRPG> says "LNX" for player version :S
[18:22] <HazRPG> dwatkins: if I go to adobe.com/software/flash/about - it says I'm using 10.2.152.27
[18:22] <dwatkins> bah
[18:22] <HazRPG> which is the latest version
[18:22] <dwatkins> oh ok, hmm
[18:25] <HazRPG> dwatkins: don't get me wrong, fullscreen in flash seems to be better than that it ever has been in linux - which is amazing! However, when you have dual-screens, its still iffy
[18:25] <HazRPG> it doesn't lag, and doesn't mess things up when its in fullscreen - its just the aspect ratio is wrong
[18:26] <dwatkins> I'm glad it's faster, perhaps as you suggest this is a driver issue, as the fullscreen thing on dual monitors saeems to work much better in general on other systems now
[18:26] <HazRPG> clicking into fullscreen, makes the fullscreen image the exact same size as if it was in the page to begin with - except the progress bar goes all the way to the end
[18:26] <dwatkins> are you able to try a different driver to test, HazRPG?
[18:27] <HazRPG> oh you mean try the other nvidia driver (the older one)
[18:27] <dwatkins> yeah
[18:27] <HazRPG> I guess I could, however I recall using that version in older ubuntu versions and use to still be iffy back then
[18:27] <HazRPG> its just twinview is strange
[18:30] <dwatkins> ...and now it's time for bacon (and lettuce and tomato), back later :)
[18:30] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i cansee how that would be annoying, yes.
[18:33] <HazRPG> brobostigon: indeed
[18:33] <HazRPG> see this is what I see when I fullscreen: http://imageupload.org/?di=1612983131728
[18:33] <dogmatic69> hey all
[18:33] <dogmatic69> anyone recommend a video watching app, for avi's
[18:33] <HazRPG> btw, I've cropped out the other screen - since that is just irc ^^
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nixiepixel?
[18:33] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: I use vlc :)
[18:34] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed ;)
[18:34] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: the problem im having is its 8 hours + and i cant speed it up
[18:34] <dogmatic69> or go to a specific point
[18:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: weird.
[18:34] <davmor2> dogmatic69: totem, vlc, mplayer
[18:34] <HazRPG> but do you see what I mean by it just doesn't actually change the image size - its like its trying to render it as a "widescreen" ish aspect ratio, on a regular sized monitor
[18:35] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: how'd ya mean?
[18:35] <dogmatic69> ill try vlc quick
[18:35] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: if i click the little bar half way in the vid it just goes back to the start
[18:36] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: vlc is good because even on videos that don't let you "seek" or move to a specific part in time without it going back to the start, you can just press the speed shortcuts to speed up the video and wait till it gets to the right places for ya :)
[18:36] <dogmatic69> cool
[18:36] <dogmatic69> that sounds like what i need
[18:36] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: heh, yeah that's why I like vlc because you can sort of bypass that - you can't use the skip bar, but you can just speed it up instead ;)
[18:37] <HazRPG> which works just about the same :)
[18:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: isn't it just!
[18:37] <HazRPG> I'll show you what happens with fullscreen applications
[18:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, :(
[18:37] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: working great, thanks
[18:37] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: no problem :)
[18:37] <dogmatic69> 31.5x :D
[18:37] <HazRPG> vlc has server me well over the last ... many many years ^^
[18:38] <dogmatic69> *31.25
[18:38] <HazRPG> hehe
[18:38] <andylockran> hey guys
[18:38] <dogmatic69> i used to use it on windows, nice that it works for nix too
[18:38] <HazRPG> I think with a bit of config editing you can make it go up to about x50 or more
[18:38] <dogmatic69> it can open just about anything
[18:38] <dogmatic69> not like winblows mediafail
[18:39] <HazRPG> its just jitters too much to make it usable at the moment
[18:39] <andylockran> anyone know how to chain multiple mySQL queries together.  'INSERT INTO $db.$table ($field) select $field from $database.$table;' works for me
[18:39] <andylockran> but if I want to do multiple fields, from multiple tables, any ideas how I'd go about it?
[18:39] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: in winblows vlc doesn't need you to install codec - which is why vlc has been my media player of choice for years
[18:39] <HazRPG> I think in linux you need the codec installed, however codex in linux work different to windows, so it doesn't bother me so much
[18:41] <HazRPG> main issue I have with codec in windows is you have to watch out for viruses, where as in linux most codec are found in the repos :)
[18:41] <HazRPG> andylockran: how do you mean dude?
[18:42] <HazRPG> andylockran: if your wanting an MySQL statement with several statements inside it before it gets executed... then here's a quick example for you
[18:42] <ali1234> vlc went rubbish when they switched the UI to Qt, it went really slow
[18:42] <ali1234> and i like Qt
[18:42] <andylockran> HazRPG: yeah
[18:42] <ali1234> but vlc sucks now
[18:42] <ali1234> mplayer is better again
[18:43] <HazRPG> SELECT a.*, label.* FROM table_name WHERE a.field_name = 'dude' OR label.another_field_name = 'foobar'
[18:44] <HazRPG> btw the "a" and "label" can be whatever you want to call them, as long as later on in the SQL statement your using the right field names you want to work from
[18:44] <HazRPG> ah wait I screwed that up hold on
[18:45] <HazRPG> SELECT a.*, label.* FROM a.table1, label.table2 WHERE a.field_name = 'dude' OR label.another_field_name = 'foobar'
[18:47] <andylockran> HazRPG: Reckon I'm nearly sorted with that mate, cheers.
[18:47] <HazRPG> andylockran: might be better looking into how to chain SQL/MySQL statements together, because it can vary on what your doing - all the above would produce is select all fields for table1 and table2, but only show the results table1 where field_name = 'dude' and table2 where another_field_name = 'foobar'
[18:47] <andylockran> How to do an update based upon content of the table?
[18:48] <HazRPG> depends on what kind of update you want to do dude
[18:48] <andylockran> i.e. update post_content where (select old_content from olddb.table where id=ID);
[18:48] <andylockran> where ID is the ID in the new DB table, and id is the old pk.
[18:48] <HazRPG> is this for two tables again?
[18:49] <HazRPG> or several statements rather
[18:50] <andylockran> one table is oldpost.article_parts
[18:51] <andylockran> which stores the content of the posts in a field called body
[18:51] <andylockran> the second table is wp_posts, which stores the article in post_content.
[18:51] <HazRPG> right
[18:51] <HazRPG> erm... lemmie see it would look something like.......
[18:51] <andylockran> the two share the same pk, so I want to select from the oldtable, and enter into the new table, where the pk matches
[18:52] <HazRPG> btw, is oldpost the label you gave it from the first example? Or is that the actual table name?
[18:52] <HazRPG> table name = article_parts?
[18:53] <andylockran> yeah
[18:53] <andylockran> the table name is article_parts
[18:53] <dogmatic69> andylockran: you want to move rows?
[18:54] <andylockran> dogmatic69: the two table structures were different
[18:54] <andylockran> I've successfully moved post_date, post_author and title, as well as the pk.
[18:55] <dogmatic69> andylockran: select insert, and that does not matter
[18:55] <andylockran> now I just need to move the body from one table, into the new table;
[18:55] <HazRPG> are you grabbing from article_parts and moving to wp_posts? (that right?)
[18:55] <andylockran> yaeh, that's what I want to do
[18:56] <andylockran> but it's an update, rather than select/insert -
[18:56] <andylockran> as some of the fields are already populater?
[18:56] <HazRPG> right... erm...
[19:00] <andylockran> update wp_posts set wp_posts.post_content = tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts where tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts.id = ID;
[19:00] <HazRPG> erm, one last question... is this going in a loop or are you wanting the SQL to do it itself?
[19:00] <andylockran> something like tjhst
[19:01] <HazRPG> don't forget, even if your not actually updating the table you still need to reference it first
[19:01] <andylockran> http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?61,15029,39217#msg-39217
[19:01] <HazRPG> e.g. UPDATE tables_you_want, other_table_that_won't_be_updated SET ....
[19:01] <andylockran> i quite fancy SQL to do it itseelf ?
[19:03] <HazRPG> UPDATE oldpost.article_parts, b.wp_posts  SET oldpost.body = b.post_content WHERE oldpost.id = b.id;
[19:03] <HazRPG> it should look something like that :)
[19:03] <HazRPG> if you notice, after SET - this is where your telling it which fields to update
[19:04] <HazRPG> after UPDATE, this is where you reference the tables you'll be working with
[19:04] <HazRPG> and after WHERE is where you tell it what conditions to base it off
[19:05] <andylockran> mysql> UPDATE tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts t, wordpress.wp_posts w -> SET w.post_content = t.body -> where t.id=w.ID;
[19:05] <andylockran> wahey
[19:06] <HazRPG> did that work :)?
[19:06] <HazRPG> I'm just doing this off the top of my head, but I've been doing MySQL for years so I can code it in my head pretty much :)
[19:06] <andylockran> yeah
[19:06] <HazRPG> ;)
[19:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Dont just be a clone& - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/02/dont-just-be-a-clone/
[19:08] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: you do web development?
[19:08] <dogmatic69> yip
[19:08] <HazRPG> andylockran: awesome, well if ya ever need any more help just ask :)
[19:09] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: I'm always interested in understanding how other people do the same tasks when it comes to doing stuff I know about :)
[19:09] <dogmatic69> ha, cool
[19:09] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: do you ever use multi-sql statements often?
[19:09] <dogmatic69> doubt i need any help
[19:09] <dogmatic69> never
[19:09] <dogmatic69> they are slow
[19:10] <HazRPG> I find sometimes its easier to do a loop - however some are better to do it as a single statement, but what's your take?
[19:10] <dogmatic69> ... if you mean select from meh where (select....) foo
[19:10] <HazRPG> yeah that sort of thign
[19:10] <HazRPG> thing*
[19:10] <dogmatic69> its slow
[19:10] <HazRPG> really?
[19:11] <HazRPG> you'd rather do several statements?
[19:11] <dogmatic69> ye, slower than normal things
[19:11] <dogmatic69> or a fat join
[19:11] <HazRPG> fat joins are just a bad idea in general I find unless you have a proper index of everything your going to do often
[19:11] <dogmatic69> i use cakephp so its normally multi queries
[19:11] <dogmatic69> github.com/infinitas/infinitas
[19:12] <HazRPG> nice :)
[19:12] <HazRPG> sounds like a great project ;)
[19:12] <dogmatic69> its pretty cool
[19:13] <dogmatic69> its like joomla/wp that is aimed at developers but still usable
[19:13] <dogmatic69> demo.infinitas-cms.org/admin admin:admin
[19:13] <dogmatic69> and it does loads of things that people on shared hosting cant do
[19:13] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: when it comes to doing stuff that's sort of related to joins and stuff, I tend to find the best way is to pull out all the data you'll be working with as SELECT statements, store in an array... do the math in PHP, and then remove any junk you may not need, then do a single INSERT or UPDATE statement afterwards to put the data back in
[19:14] <dogmatic69> ye
[19:14] <dogmatic69> i do loads in php, but try and get more done on the db so its less load
[19:14] <HazRPG> agreed
[19:15] <HazRPG> usually best if you have proper access to the database your working in, since you can set up some funky index tables to speed things up considerably
[19:15] <dogmatic69> especially when they have access to a db server and separate code server
[19:15] <HazRPG> haha totally agree
[19:15] <dogmatic69> all the queries on there are optimised with proper indexes and every thing happens in less than 1ms
[19:16] <HazRPG> the code I'm working on at the moment was really bad, it did an SQL statement query inside of a for loop... which is a bad bad idea... its worse than doing a fat-join >_<
[19:17] <HazRPG> because it was a nested for loop, so it was basically for { for { for { // SQL } // SQL } // SQL }
[19:17] <MadLeomon> probably a stupid question, but for the uniformed what is a fat-join?
[19:17] <andylockran> HazRPG: ah, didn't quite work :p
[19:17] <HazRPG> andylockran: hmm, what happened?
[19:17] <HazRPG> is it missing some data?
[19:18] <andylockran> it didn't respect the WHERE clause
[19:18] <HazRPG> MadLeomon: fat-join? Basically when you query several tables and then try to join them all together with the JOIN sql statement
[19:18] <MadLeomon> gotcha
[19:18] <HazRPG> all inside one single query
[19:19] <MadLeomon> thanks for explaining it
[19:19] <HazRPG> its perfectly fine to do for small databases, but when you've got large amounts of data your working with - it can take up some hefty time to process properly without a good index table
[19:21] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: cakephp does some things like that out the box, so if you not careful its bad
[19:21] <andylockran> sorted
[19:21] <andylockran> was using the wrong field in one of the tables;
[19:21] <mgdm> it tends not to be so bad if the joins are on integers
[19:21] <HazRPG> the example I was always told about when I was studying it years ago, was if your working with say employee data for a large corp. that has thousands of staff... doing that kind of query could take hours/days to execute properly - when really you want it to happen almost instantly
[19:21] <mgdm> (like your standard auto_increment primary key things)
[19:22] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: yeah I have played with cake a while back
[19:22]  * dogmatic69 <3 cake
[19:22] <HazRPG> mgdm: this is true
[19:22] <HazRPG> mgdm: but remember unique keys are indexed though
[19:23] <HazRPG> if your working with other fields, it isn't indexed properly as standard - you have to set them up yourself
[19:23] <mgdm> well, yeah
[19:23] <HazRPG> :)
[19:24]  * HazRPG knows things!
[19:24] <HazRPG> Usually people talk terminal in here, and other stuff and the majority of it whooshes over my head, for once I feel useful :D
[19:24] <mgdm> heh
[19:25] <HazRPG> andylockran: easy mistake to do, the one I gave you was only based on what I knew from what you told me :)
[19:25] <HazRPG> but the general idea works
[19:25] <HazRPG> andylockran: glad you got it working properly though :)
[19:26] <HazRPG> mgdm: slowly getting into the terminal though!
[19:26] <HazRPG> I mean I already knew about sudo!
[19:26] <HazRPG> and mv
[19:26] <HazRPG> and cp
[19:26] <HazRPG> and tar
[19:27] <HazRPG> I also knew aptitude commands
[19:27]  * mgdm spends most of his day at the terminal
[19:27] <HazRPG> since these are all stuff I use often
[19:27] <mgdm> much of it in Vim coding :)
[19:27] <HazRPG> mgdm: hehe
[19:27] <HazRPG> I have started using vim :)
[19:27] <HazRPG> I've previously used nano too
[19:28] <HazRPG> although vim is better apparently
[19:28] <mgdm> it is if you learn how to work it
[19:28] <HazRPG> I also learned screen, htop, bmon and ssh
[19:29] <HazRPG> so slowly my command line knowledge is growing - much kudos to shauno, AlanBell and MartijnVdS for that :)
[19:30] <HazRPG> ooo, I also know logout and shutdown, and exit (sometimes used for some stuff)
[19:31] <HazRPG> and my favourite is the CTRL+Z for terminating something if I can't figure out how to close something - probably a bad idea to use that though (correct me if I'm wrong though)
[19:32] <brobostigon> ctrl + c works also.
[19:33] <HazRPG> brobostigon: is that the same thing?
[19:33] <HazRPG> as CTRL+Z I mean
[19:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i havent tried ctrl + z, so dont know.
[19:33] <HazRPG> as far as I know, CTRL+Z is just like a force close essentially
[19:34] <brobostigon> ctrl + c does that too.
[19:34] <HazRPG> found it by mistake the first time :)
[19:34] <brobostigon> :)
[19:34] <HazRPG> cool
[19:34] <mgdm> it stops the program
[19:34] <mgdm> it's not dead, just suspended
[19:34] <brobostigon> ctrl +c or ctrl + z ?
[19:34] <mgdm> (pining for the fjords)
[19:34] <mgdm> ctrl-z
[19:35] <brobostigon> ah,
[19:48] <HazRPG> Lunchie: sup dude :D
[19:50] <shauno> HazRPG: next time you make something disappear with ctrl+Z, try "fg 1" and watch it come back again ;)
[19:51] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm... so CTRL+Z is bad?
[19:51] <shauno> not bad, but it doesn't sound like it's what you're looking for
[19:51] <daubers> HazRPG: It backgrounds a process
[19:51] <HazRPG> really?
[19:51] <daubers> HazRPG: Essentially thats how iPhone "multitasking" works
[19:51] <HazRPG> it always says that its been "stopped" whenever I do it though
[19:52] <shauno> stopped, not destroyed.
[19:52] <daubers> HazRPG: Yup, it's as if it's been cryogenically frozen
[19:52] <HazRPG> ah
[19:53] <HazRPG> shauno: you use mailing lists often - I just sort of got a telling off for using @name instead using a reply - for those using threaded e-mails
[19:53] <shauno> yeah.  it's not twitter ;)
[19:54] <HazRPG> I didn't quite understand what he mean - I understand the whole threading thing, I mean gmail does it
[19:54] <shauno> it's not a huge thing, if you assume that people read every single mail to the list
[19:54] <HazRPG> but I clicked reply on his name, it just sends it back off the mailing list not to a specific person - so I don't understand what method he'd rather me do :S
[19:55] <andylockran> any idea how to get wordpress to generate RSS feed after manually filling db?
[19:55] <shauno> as soon as you realise people don't, you need an alternative :)
[19:55] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah I know its not twitter - I *barely* ever use twitter as it is. I got the whole @ thing from various forums
[19:55] <shauno> HazRPG: generally if you're replying to two topics, it'd be two emails.  that way each reply is kept in it's correct context
[19:56] <shauno> eg, if I don't find the first few emails in a thread terribly "my thing", I probably won't read the rest of them.  so if you reply to something I was paying attention to, in a thread I wasn't .. I'll never see it
[19:57] <DJones> HazRPG: I saw that reply to you, must admit, my reaction was that if thats the attitude of people on the list, I wouldn't want to be on the list
[19:57] <AlanBell> andylockran: http://www.site.com/feed should just work
[19:57] <andylockran> AlanBell: I've manually filled teh DB
[19:57] <shauno> just wait until you find someone who wants to whine about whether you top-post or not.  or whether you snipped enough/too much.  mailing lists seem to be stuck in the 80s by default
[19:58] <HazRPG> heh, I always just junk out anything I'm not replying to - so it's a blank e-mail essentially with only the bit I'm referring to before my replies - but that's just a standard I've always used
[19:59] <AlanBell> andylockran: unless you have done so spectacularly badly, it should just work!
[19:59] <AlanBell> andylockran: url?
[19:59] <andylockran> AlanBell: zrmt.com/feed
[19:59] <HazRPG> DJones: I thought it was rather harsh seeing that in my e-mail, so far my experience with ubuntu-uk has been very friendly
[19:59] <HazRPG> DJones: so to see that in my inbox was really shocking
[20:00] <HazRPG> shauno: still unsure as to how I would reply so the right person is seeing the message?
[20:00] <DJones> HazRPG: There's an odd person or two on the list who seem to think that the list revolves around them, rather than them being part of a community
[20:00] <HazRPG> since changing the topic title would screw up the thread in gmail - gmail will see it as being a completely new thread if the topic has been changed
[20:01] <shauno> HazRPG: you'd reply to the email they sent.  so if you're replying to two topics at once, two emails, rather than mentioning two people in the same email
[20:01] <andylockran> AlanBell: have I majorly ballsed it up?
[20:01] <shauno> usually my advice would be "chill, you'll never keep them all happy".  but since you ask :)
[20:02] <AlanBell> andylockran: yes, but not the database :)
[20:02] <HazRPG> shauno: trust me I'm the most chilled out guy you *may* meet (might be more chilled out people, but who knows) - usually if I can avoid conflict I will, but if conflicts do start, I try to sort of do what pleases them (if at all any of that rambling makes sense xD)
[20:03] <AlanBell> andylockran: either a setting somewhere (just checking) or the .htaccess
[20:03] <HazRPG> shauno: I still don't see how replying to their specific e-mail would change things unless it would send them mail directly to them - just seems like an odd concept (since I have used e-mail clients before)
[20:05] <HazRPG> shauno: if I recall, I actually clicked reply on his e-mail to begin with lol... but I guess my first response was to Mac first
[20:05] <andylockran> http://dpaste.com/437183/ AlanBell
[20:05] <andylockran> that's all that's in the .htaccess
[20:05] <HazRPG> shauno: ah wait, its piecing together now
[20:05] <HazRPG> shauno: he basically just did a "tl;dr" to me didn't he :/
[20:06] <HazRPG> but politely corrected me because he actually read it
[20:06] <HazRPG> (or tried to be polite...)
[20:06] <HazRPG> andylockran: no I think he means it might be a setting or something you may need to add into the .htaccess
[20:07] <shauno> HazRPG: dunno, I haven't read it yet because I'm currently fighting with procmail :)
[20:08] <HazRPG> shauno: right, so if I'm replying to several people in a thread (e.g. [ubuntu-uk] I used ubuntu server today!)
[20:08] <HazRPG> instead of hitting reply and just answering everyone in one e-mail, I should actually reply to each person separately - is my understanding of that (I think...)
[20:09] <HazRPG> DJones, shauno: correct me if I'm wrong though.
[20:09] <shauno> if they're all in the same thread, I'd go ahead and stick multiple replies in one message
[20:09] <shauno> I do this all the time.  quote the bit I'm replying to, stick my reply underneath, then quote the next bit/person
[20:10] <shauno> if that's still a problem for them, reading their email over wap on a 1998 nokia may not be the client that fits their needs
[20:11] <shauno> they need something that can fit more than 3 words on the screen :)
[20:11] <HazRPG> shauno: if your not busy, that's the reply I gave (no need to read it, just shows you what I did): http://paste.ubuntu.com/570228/
[20:12] <HazRPG> shauno: see, normally I would do that in e-mails... however I've noticed over people just do it the way I did it there - so I thought that's what everyone did and followed suit
[20:13] <AlanBell> andylockran: that .htaccess looks about right
[20:13] <HazRPG> obviously the paste didn't wrap the text heh :/
[20:14] <shauno> heh, that's cool.  it gave me the fu required to pull the thread up in gmail :)
[20:14] <HazRPG> heh
[20:14] <HazRPG> its the LibreOffice one
[20:14] <AlanBell> andylockran: http://zrmt.com/?feed=rss
[20:14] <AlanBell> andylockran: something to do with your permalink settings I think
[20:14] <HazRPG> shauno: mine is the 3rd e-mail down - his reply was the last one on the list
[20:15] <AlanBell> andylockran: http://perishablepress.com/press/2008/03/09/what-is-my-wordpress-feed-url/
[20:16] <shauno> yeah, I see it.  and having a difficult time putting any logic to that one
[20:16] <HazRPG> its all in the same thread - so I don't see the issue with it
[20:16] <AlanBell> andylockran: http://zrmt.com/feed/atom/ works
[20:17] <shauno> replying to multiple people in one email is normal.  the only difference it makes at his end is whether he actually needs to read the thread he's posting in.
[20:17] <brobostigon> reckon a cli natty install will fit inside a 2gb sdcard?
[20:17] <HazRPG> shauno: I mean I can understand from an e-mailing client if your only looking at the small sample text which is usually say 50-100 characters long then yeah I can see how he could maybe miss the e-mail... but it was something he was replied in
[20:18] <HazRPG> or rather, it was something he posted a reply in
[20:18] <shauno> brobostigon: I hope so.  I've got a 10.04 install in 402Mb.
[20:19] <DJones> HazRPG: I wouldn't worry about it, just put it down to experience and do what I've done, add the email sender to a mental /ignore list :)
[20:19] <HazRPG> shauno: I don't want to reply to him and say I don't understand what he means, because well you should never feed the trolls... but well his explanation isn't clear
[20:19] <brobostigon> shauno: yay, :)
[20:19] <HazRPG> DJones: hehe :P
[20:20] <brobostigon> shauno: still smae procedure, an option, from alternate ?
[20:20] <shauno> brobostigon: it may be on the alternate disc, or the server install, or ..  but one of the disks has a boot option for a minimal install.  handy for sticking new VMs out that maybe don't require every creature comfort
[20:21] <brobostigon> shauno: alternate is what i remember using before.
[20:21] <HazRPG> shauno: I might just start putting a list on the first line to show who I will be replying to
[20:22] <shauno> my backup MX has a footprint of 402Mb and using 22Mb of ram.  ubuntu can still do slim :)
[20:22] <brobostigon> shauno: definatly, :)
[20:24] <brobostigon> cdimages.ubuntu.com is fast tonight, :)
[20:25] <HazRPG> shauno, brobostigon: cool
[20:25] <shauno> I believe the latest nightly is mildly borked, so that's probably a good thing
[20:25] <brobostigon> shauno: i am going bck to alpha2.
[20:27] <andylockran> AlanBell: exported the setup to xml, reinstalled wordpress and reimported
[20:27] <andylockran> problem solved.
[20:33] <brobostigon> the startup disk making prog, thinks it can make an alternate cd persistant, lol. :)
[20:34]  * dwatkins returns from domesticity
[20:36] <brobostigon> ok, bbl. :)
[20:36] <shauno> anyone speak fluent imap?  why is "login username password" repling "login BAD Error in IMAP command received by server."
[20:37] <AlanBell> . login
[20:37] <AlanBell> the ". " is important
[20:38] <shauno> ah.  thought that was a list bullet
[20:38] <shauno> cheers :)
[20:38] <AlanBell> yeah, so did I once :)
[20:40] <shauno> well, answers why a folder isn't showing up in my client.  it doesn't show up in list either.  back to the drawing board.
[20:58] <shauno> ah, there we go.  apparently dovecot doesn't let you nest folders.  you have to pretend to.
[21:09] <bigcalm> shauno: could have told you that :S
[21:10] <shauno> figuring it out is half the fun :)
[21:11] <shauno> I should have known putting a folder inside a folder isn't how you put a folder inside a folder.  obvious is too easy
[21:11] <bigcalm> I knew about dovecot not liking nested folders. So I didn't bother to look any further
[21:12] <mgdm> I've never noticed it having a problem
[21:12] <shauno> they work, just less than obvious.  it's $maildir/.folder.subfolder/
[21:12] <bigcalm> Oh, I used mbox
[21:13] <shauno> the silly "we've been able to nest folders since msdos3" in me was expecting $maildir/folder/subfolder/
[21:13] <bigcalm> This is back in the day of doing stuff locally
[21:13] <mgdm> Maildir FTW
[21:13] <bigcalm> Quite
[21:14] <bigcalm> Back in the day I cared enough to write this script: http://lazygnome.net/projects/md2mb/0.1/md2mb-pl.txt
[21:15] <shauno> I think I've still got a spool as mbox.  procmail is so adamant it's going to lock it, that it creates it just so it can
[21:20] <shauno> bigcalm: did that work?  I thought mails in mbox were meant to be separated with 4 nulls
[21:20] <bigcalm> shauno: worked back then
[21:20] <bigcalm> I haven't done such things since 2006
[22:12] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[22:25] <Azelphur> hmm, I'm using devede to create some DVD's, it appears to be putting out 7.8GB Images which brasero refuses to burn
[22:26] <bigcalm> Do you have dual layer media?
[22:27] <Azelphur> nope
[22:27] <popey> that'll be why
[22:27] <popey> single layer is 4.2GB
[22:27] <Azelphur> ah, I just found the dropdown
[22:27] <Azelphur> there goes 16 hours of DVD encode :D
[22:27] <popey> does it have a "make it fit, use a crowbar if necessary" option?
[22:28] <Azelphur> nope, it has a media size dropdown
[22:28] <Azelphur> I must have set it wrong
[23:04]  * popey pokes MartijnVdS with the grammatically questionable http://www.google.nl/intl/nl_ALL/images/logos/video_logo.gif
[23:43] <andylockran> howdy
[23:43]  * hamitron wonders if popey is alive
[23:43] <andylockran> quiet tonight
[23:44] <andylockran> hamitron: I'm surprised it isn't scripted ...
[23:44] <hamitron> :)
[23:44] <hamitron> i was on his server earlier and everything broke
[23:44] <hamitron> :/
[23:45] <hamitron> it seemed to cause an issue I'm having with my gaming rig
[23:45] <hamitron> NIC just stops working
[23:45] <popey> i am
[23:45] <popey> i have had up and down internet today
[23:45] <hamitron> hmmm
[23:46] <hamitron> could that make my tcp/ip stack fill with dead packets maybe?
[23:47] <hamitron> I could just blame MS as usual, but want to actually fix it ;)