[00:36] <gnomefreak> i need someone to test g-t sound for me in natty
[01:54] <steve__> i cannot start ubuntu desktop edition, as it says unity failed, and compiz failed, is there any way i can install the fix for it? Launchpad says the fix has been released
[01:55] <yofel> first find out why it failed. Does opengl work fine on your graphics driver?
[01:55] <steve__> it doesn't seem like it does
[01:56] <yofel> steve__: what card do you have?
[01:56] <steve__> oh, the proprietary drivers arent activated
[01:57] <yofel> WAIT
[01:57] <steve__> thanks for the reality check
[01:57] <steve__> yes?
[01:57] <yofel> the nvidia (and ati I think) proprietary drivers don't work currently, trying to install them will remove X
[01:58] <steve__> close one
[01:58] <yofel> you either need to downgrade X or wait for working drivers to be released
[01:59] <steve__> okay
[01:59] <yofel> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1675614 has some info
[01:59] <steve__> i don't believe i have an nvidia card, but it recognizes it as one
[02:00] <yofel> you can open a terminal and run 'lspci | grep VGA' that'll tell you what you have
[02:01] <steve__> yeah, it's an nvidia 440mx
[02:07] <yofel> does KVM work fine for anyone? Here it seems like the DNS server it sets doesn't work (10.0.2.3), I need to set a different one by hand everytime
[02:47] <perscitus> Will Gnome-Shell 3 be option in 11.04?
[02:47] <coz_> perscitus,  I dont so
[02:48] <coz_> unless it will be in the repositories
[02:48] <perscitus> Unity is junk that shell
[02:48] <coz_> perscitus,   you will be far better off with compiz as the base in unity
[02:48] <perscitus> Im better of without unity
[02:49] <coz_> perscitus,  well you could switch to classic gnome desktop on natty
[02:49] <zzing> I have installed 32 bit daily into virtualbox and then installed the additions - the additions seemed to install without error. However, when I start up the vm now gets the first dot on the boot screen and goes to a blank terminal that can echo keyboard but nothing else. Has anyone else heard of this?
[02:49] <coz_> zzing,   nvidia?
[02:49] <coz_> ati?
[02:49] <zzing> coz_: The host is nvidia (mac), but I don't know about what ubuntu sees as the client
[02:50] <coz_> zzing,  if nvidia it may the issue ,,, it is broken right now
[02:50] <perscitus> coz_,  im not asking for classic.
[02:51] <rww> Natty won't have GNOME 3 in the repositories, but will have a PPA for it. GNOME 3 is targetted for natty+1.
[02:51] <zzing> coz_: It appears that nvidia will not be exposed to ubuntu
[02:52] <zzing> So it is not likely that
[02:52] <coz_> zzing,  in then I am not sure
[02:52] <coz_> perscitus,  i assume you are using unity 11.04  now ...yes?
[02:52] <perscitus> rww,  Whats natty=1?
[02:52] <rww> perscitus: the release after natty
[02:53] <perscitus> I hate Unity.
[02:53] <zzing> Does ubuntu have net installs or something so I don't have to download another 600+ mb?
[02:54] <coz_> zzing,  I think after the release the will a minimal install cd  about 12 megs  which installs directly from internet
[02:54] <coz_> "there will be"
[02:54] <rww> !hate
[02:54] <coz_> zzing,  other previous versions have the   minimal install cd now
[02:55] <zzing> coz_: I couldn't find those, where do I look?
[02:55] <coz_> zzing,   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[02:55] <rww> perscitus: Please don't send me PMs about your opinion of Unity. I don't use it, or Ubuntu, and am thus not likely to care.
[02:55] <perscitus> I don't like the Unity looks and  the way it behaves. And makes using the desktop much much harder
[02:56] <zzing> thank you
[02:56] <coz_> zzing,  no problem
[02:57] <coz_> perscitus,   and you prefer gnome-shell .. yes?   I personally prefer calssic gnome desktop,, I only use Unity occasionally  to test compiz and report bugs
[02:57] <perscitus> coz_,  yeah.
[02:58] <coz_> perscitus,  well as rww  mentioned it will only be avialable via PPA
[02:58] <coz_> for 11.04
[02:59] <perscitus> Gnome 3 does have April release
[02:59] <coz_> perscitus,  Unity does have compiz at it's base ,, have you played with ccsm to make more to your liking?
[02:59] <coz_> authide panel for example
[02:59] <rww> perscitus: Yup. And even assuming that it doesn't get delayed again, that's way, way too late in the release cycle for Ubuntu 11.04 to use it.
[02:59] <perscitus> Unity belongs on netbook release. thats it. Which should be renamed to Ubuntu Mobile
[03:00] <coz_> perscitus,  I am not sure I completely disagree with you , however .,,. there it is :)
[03:00] <perscitus> Netbook is dead fab
[03:00] <rww> especially in a release cycle where testing is already going to be burdened with a new default UI.
[03:01] <perscitus> The only good thing about Unity is its good for touchscreens. UNforunately,  Ubuntu is for DESKTOPS and not touchscreen
[03:01] <coz_> mm I believe touchscreen is implimented ...yes?
[03:04] <perscitus> There is one more reason i hate Unity. I dispised groups of people who break off from main groups when  their time is better spent working together.  You know, like Beryl and Compiz. And then they rejoined.
[03:04] <coz_> perscitus,  well Beryl  and compiz were actually the same team
[03:05] <coz_> perscitus,  very few of the developers had changed at that point
[03:05] <coz_> perscitus,  it was more an internal political problem more than anything
[03:05] <perscitus> If all the time spent on Unity could have been applied to Gnome Shell 3, maybe it be ready for Natty in time.
[03:06] <coz_> perscitus,  well gnome-shell ,, has been in the past... a resource hog... i have no idea where it stands at this point with that issue  however
[03:06] <coz_> mutter has been dropped for compiz
[03:06] <coz_> in 11.04
[03:07] <coz_> and one of the big reasons is mutters  issues
[03:08] <perscitus> OSS has allot of 'political' issues. It's why its only 1-2% of the market.
[03:08] <coz_> perscitus,  I suggest you play with ccsm settings to set Unity to a more "tolerable"  workspace for yourself
[03:09] <perscitus> More tolerable ... sorry cant. Launcher cant be moved
[03:09] <perscitus> Launcher is in the wrong place
[03:09] <coz_> perscitus,  there is an autohide feature for that  that stays hidden until you mouse over the upper left corener of the screen ,,, over the ubuntu logo
[03:10] <perscitus> Launcher belongs at the bottom.
[03:10] <coz_> perscitus,   ccsm - Ubuntu Unity Plugin
[03:10] <coz_> "Hide Launcher"  pulldown to  "Autohide"
[03:11] <perscitus> i dont want autohide. i just want it at the bottom
[03:11] <coz_> perscitus,  the other alternative along with autohide is one of the several docks available ,,, I suggest cairo-dock
[03:12] <coz_> and if you choose cairo-dock I would go with the weekly build or compile the bzr developer's version
[03:12] <coz_> there is a bug in valac  but we have taken care of the when compiling cairo dock,,, I dont think the bug has been fixed but the dock  bypasses that during compile
[03:14] <perscitus> The whole thing is mute
[03:14] <rww> moot
[03:14] <perscitus> Since i spend most my time in Windows 7
[03:14] <coz_> perscitus,  well unless you are willing to re code the launcher in Unity  I dont see another solution
[03:15] <perscitus> I used to spend all my time in Ubuntu. Now im lucky to spend 5 hours a week in it
[03:15] <coz_> perscitus,  if you want to do that you might want to go to #ayatana  and speak with a few of the developers
[03:16] <perscitus> I once saw great potential in Linux and Ubuntu but year ago, I realized its going no where.
[03:17] <coz_> perscitus,  I believe that would be considered lack of vision not accurate  forsight
[03:17] <coz_> foresight
[03:17] <rww> #ubuntu+1 is for discussion and support of Ubuntu development releases. If you'd like to rant about the state of the Linux desktop, try #ubuntu-offtopic.
[03:17] <perscitus> Google is only one who has made any headroom
[03:18] <perscitus> And Android 3 kills tablet touchscreen use for Unity.
[03:18] <coz_> perscitus,  is there anything that any of us can help you with to move to a more useable Unity desktop?
[03:19] <yofel> you do know that gnome isn't the only desktop environment out there? try KDE, xfce or lxde for a change and we are keeping classic gnome for natty too
[03:19] <rww> and GNOME 3 will be in Ubuntu 11.10...
[03:19] <coz_> perscitus,  yes you might well  like the kde net book edition
[03:19] <perscitus> kde netbook.  yuck.
[03:19] <perscitus> thats worse then unity
[03:20] <coz_> I have had a week of grumpy people ... I am out of here
[03:21] <cozziemoto> you mean I just had to leave? :)
[03:21] <yofel> ^^
[03:21] <rww> lol
[03:21] <cozziemoto> oy
[06:39] <magn3ts> Does anyone have Natty running successfully in a VBOX  VM with 3d?
[06:41] <zzing> magn3ts: let me guess it goes to a black terminal on reboot
[06:42] <magn3ts> zzing, the latest one, yes.
[06:42] <zzing> I just did this same thing only 4 hours ago and ended up with the same
[06:42] <zzing> or as I described
[06:42] <zzing> I reverted back to the release and 3d worked
[06:44] <magn3ts> zzing, release? the alpha?
[06:44] <zzing> the stable
[06:44] <magn3ts> 10.10? yeah, it works great!
[06:45] <magn3ts> even if the alpha, it would blabber about 3d not working, would launch unity + gnome-panel, and then upon resize, unity would go bonkers and not move properly :/
[06:45] <zzing> The daily looks like the ripped the mac off :p
[06:46] <magn3ts> I just want to try it. I've tried nightlies of the last several releases, but if it means rebooting and giving up a physical part, its not going to happen. I'lll just sit and keep looking at screenshots
[06:48] <zzing> magn3ts: Are you running linux now?
[06:48] <magn3ts> 10.10 amd64 is my host, yeah.
[06:48] <zzing> ok
[06:48] <zzing> My host is mac
[10:13] <coz_> hey guys
[10:13] <gnomefreak> hi
[10:22] <gnomefreak> i cant find software center
[10:23] <gnomefreak> found it
[12:44] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:44] <zniavre_> !unity-2D
[12:45] <pr0ph3t> is there anyway to deactivate the constant error reporting messages popping-up even if everything seems to be ok? I.e. xchat closed due to error, but it's actually still open
[13:02] <yofel> pr0ph3t: maybe you have a xchat crash in /var/crash, it'll pop up until you either report it or delete the .crash file
[13:03] <yofel> if you don't want to be prompted for crashes at all disable apport in /etc/default/apport
[13:03] <pr0ph3t> yofel, thanks
[13:27] <zniavre_> good afternoon
[13:28] <zniavre_> i got this message >conflicting fb hw usage inteldrmfb vs VESA VGA and my desktop is twice  420x360 in clone mode
[13:29] <zniavre_> i can't see any recent bug report about this
[13:37] <yofel> that's probably the since we have vesa fb enabled by default now, and the KMS drivers don't seem to like it. Makes plymouth unusable here, I need to test something though before I report a bug myself
[13:37] <yofel> s/the//
[13:38] <zniavre_> ok
[13:42] <zniavre_> ho i installed and use startupmanager it solved my worrie   :o)
[15:44] <pr0ph3t> I can't update canberra latest from the update manager, you have the same problem?
[16:05] <hggdh> anyone hanging on boot after latest updates?
[16:54] <guigouz> shouldn't unity be the default environment on 11.04 alpha 2 ?
[16:54] <charlie-tca> only if the video card is supporting 3d
[16:55] <charlie-tca> If not, it will default to 2d
[16:55] <guigouz> oh, ok
[16:55] <guigouz> i'm testing it on virtualbox, that's why.
[16:57] <charlie-tca> so you need to have guest additions installed, then you can select the unity desktop at login
[17:00] <guigouz> cool, will do that. thanks
[17:01] <jml> speaking of unity, what can I do to get a visible CPU usage indicator?
[17:07] <Daekdroom> jml, I don't think there is any such indicator in the official repos, but there are so many different indicators in PPAs
[17:18] <proti> morning (UGT) :)
[17:20] <proti> After the daily update I got to machines frozen at boot in a really strange way.
[17:20] <proti> two*
[17:21] <proti> upstart starts normally but does not spawn any tty and does not starts gdm/kdm either.
[17:21] <proti> Making the machine usuable.
[17:23] <proti> Is there something wrong with upstart scripts ?
[18:25] <hggdh> proti: does it finish boot?
[18:26] <hggdh> reason is, right now my machine hangs on boot
[18:28] <gnomefreak> ok so its been a long time since i used mutter/compiz/beryl/ect...  im using unity atm is there a way to make for example my desktop rain or snow or fire or what not?
[18:29] <gnomefreak> when i say long time i mean when i first started the beryl team
[18:30] <Pici> !ccsm | gnomefreak (
[18:31] <gnomefreak> Pici: this is unity there isnt really a apperance menu at least not that i can find
[18:31] <gnomefreak> not sure if we phased out mutter yet either
[18:31] <Pici> gnomefreak: Well, you could always run compizconfig-settings-manager manually after the install.
[18:32] <gnomefreak> Pici: thanks.
[18:33] <gnomefreak> it ooks like it has been replaced already
[18:33] <gnomefreak> s/ooks/looks
[18:34] <gnomefreak> Pici: is one preffered over the other?
[18:36] <Pici> gnomefreak: which?
[18:36] <gnomefreak> the compizconfig-settings-manager or simple-ccsm
[18:37] <gnomefreak> i know it is personal preference but i dont know the difference between them thats why i ask
[18:39] <Pici> gnomefreak: Both packages have been available for some time.
[18:39] <coz_> hey guys
[18:40] <gnomefreak> hi coz_
[18:41] <coz_> gnomefreak,  hey  guy
[18:41] <gnomefreak> thanks Pici i will start with simple for now
[18:42] <vish> gnomefreak: actually compizconfig-settings-manager is better IMO
[18:42] <gnomefreak> The following extra packages will be installed: compizconfig-settings-manager python-compizconfig
[18:42] <gnomefreak> simple-ccsm installs both packages
[18:42] <vish> simple one has weird options..
[19:16] <gnomefreak> ok i found apperance but visual; effects is not in there, only background font and theme
[19:17] <gnomefreak> compizconfig settings is in the menu options though :)
[19:21] <Daekdroom> gnomefreak, Effects tab was removed.
[19:22] <gnomefreak> ok that sucked. i opened compiz settings dialog and ticked water effect and i lost both gnome panels upper and unity and lost the ability to open/close/use anything else. had to restart gdm
[19:22] <gnomefreak> this is a bad thing. my card can handle the load and so can system, so i have to blame it on compiz or the ati drivers
[19:24] <gnomefreak> i was really hoping to use ati card without issues but this has happened for a while now. not just compiz settings. and since nvidia-current is broken its not a good idea to use the 9500 card yet
[19:26] <Gulfstream> will 11.04 work on a laptop with an Intel Processor (probably intel graphics card?)?
[19:26] <gnomefreak> yes should. intel has a bug atm due to the new X api. the link is in the /topic
[19:27] <Daekdroom> Unity crashes every time I open ccsm
[19:27] <Daekdroom> Which is why I'm on metacity
[19:27] <gnomefreak> ok this is strange. to enable desktop cube i have to disable desktop wall and the unity plugin. im scared to disable unity plugin
[19:27] <Daekdroom> Desktop cube doesn't look like compatible with unity at all.
[19:27] <gnomefreak> Daekdroom: as long as i dont play with it im fine.
[19:27] <Daekdroom> Given how unity manages the desktops.
[19:28] <gnomefreak> it seems its not and i miss the cibe
[19:28] <Daekdroom> I never used the cube
[19:28] <gnomefreak> i did back when i was running beryl
[19:28] <Gulfstream> so when it says other X applications, does this include X-Moto?
[19:28] <gnomefreak> a bunch of years ago
[19:29] <gnomefreak> Gulfstream: i guess you mean the PPA?
[19:29] <Gulfstream> gnomefreak: no, on the known issues message
[19:29] <gnomefreak> Gulfstream: not sure. i am guessing its broken there too but i dont work with or have upload access to X code
[19:30] <gnomefreak> Gulfstream: i know just about everything you see there. i havent dug too deep into the problem but seems i may be doing that this week if ati keeps giving me issues
[19:33] <gnomefreak> ok good news i dont think it is desktop cube, it seems to be EVERYTHING that is not default that breaks it for me
[19:33]  * gnomefreak brb this is bothering the hell out of me
[19:43] <proti> hggdh: No, it hangs. But trying verbose upstart shows upstart starting up correctly.
[19:44] <proti> It justs forgets to starts some / all of the services.
[19:44] <proti> It tries to start mountall-net and that's it.
[19:48] <gnomefreak> it seems that the whole compiz/unity issue is that compiz is crashing. there is a work around though it looks like
[19:50] <gnomefreak> since im lost i guess i missed something during the crashes and such
[19:52] <coz_> gnomefreak,  did you try  compiz on classic gnome  to test it?
[19:52] <gnomefreak> there is no way to refresh rhythmbox. i have to eject cd than push it back in for it to load again. due to restarting gdm im sure of it
[19:53] <gnomefreak> coz_: no but i found out from seb that it is crashing. i am looking for the bug now
[19:53] <coz_> ah ok
[19:54] <gnomefreak> i get the feeling its not going to be easy to find
[19:57] <hggdh>  proti it hangs at what point (i.e., what are the last messages you see on the console)?
[19:57] <hggdh> in my case they stop after fsck starting and signalling the filesystems are clean
[19:57] <gnomefreak> coz_: see bug 682550
[19:58] <coz_> gnomefreak,  oh yes  I have experienced that as well
[19:58] <coz_> gnomefreak,   I generally just compile 0.9.x  and run it on natty ,, i dont use the default  not for Unity though
[20:01] <gnomefreak> it seems that when it charshes i was using gdm restart but if i just restarted display it would keep the options enabled. but i can wait until the fix. at least it is known
[20:01] <gnomefreak> brb
[20:09] <proti> hggdh: exactly at same point
[20:10] <gnomefreak> anyone using mozilla team PPA minefield + unity?
[20:10] <proti> Try adding --verbose at the cmdline and it'll be showing what's happening after the fsck.
[20:12] <proti> I have 2 machines that I updated today, and both showed the same problem.
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> You probably get this a lot; but how stable is Alpha 2? :)
[20:25] <hggdh> proti: yes, it _does_ sound like init issues. Do you have multiple filesystems?
[20:25] <charlie-tca> Stevethepirate: depends on how bad you need to be able to use the system daily
[20:25] <charlie-tca> As long as it is not absolutely needed, it is great
[20:25] <hggdh> charlie-tca: right now, for example, my machine is dead...
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> Well, when it crashes, from the YT vid's I've seen, X crashes a lot.
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> This is not a problem, as its a netbook, just need ssh on it rly :)
[20:25] <charlie-tca> Then you just answered your own question
[20:25] <charlie-tca> it is not stable
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> Well.
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> I'm not sure if thats just the 3/4 YT vid's I've seen.
[20:25] <Stevethepirate> But ok, thank you.
[20:26] <gnomefreak> Stevethepirate: X problem are around (see /topic) also unity+compiz are problems, and more
[20:26] <hggdh> proti: yes, I had already run with init=/sbin/init --debug (which, I guess, gives you the same thing as --verbose, didn't know about that one). In my case I see upstart stopping after mounted-tmp ended
[20:26] <gnomefreak> if you use the PC 1 time a month for about 1 hour each time you should be ok :)
[20:26] <charlie-tca> only if you pick a time that everything is working, though
[20:26] <gnomefreak> netbook uses unity by default doesnt it?
[20:28] <Daekdroom> In 10.04 yeah
[20:28] <Daekdroom> I mean 10.10
[20:28] <Daekdroom> In 11.04 there is no netbook edition for now
[20:28]  * gnomefreak has found alot of bugs in the last week or so that i have been trying to work out but out of something like 20 i still have say 15-17 still to work on
[20:28] <gnomefreak> yay highest CPU% is 5 this is a first for me :)
[20:28] <gnomefreak> make that 6
[20:28] <Daekdroom> ubuntu-netbook package seems deprecated
[20:29] <gnomefreak> i have browsers open with tabs a cd playing on unity and it switches between X and rhythmbox
[20:29] <gnomefreak> ah maybe because unity is default for gnome?
[20:30] <Stevethepirate> gnomefreak: I guess that is acceptable; I literally only use non-CLI when I'm bored :)
[20:30] <charlie-tca> yup, with unity default for Ubuntu, a separate netbook edition is no longer needed
[20:30] <Stevethepirate> As long as the release doesn't make the PC rebooot every few hours :)
[20:31] <psusi> I liked the global menu in the old netbook edition since all windows were maximized... but I don't like it in Unity for unmaximized windows.  I hope they made it only use the global menu for maximized windows.
[20:31] <charlie-tca> Stevethepirate: shouldn't be a problem, can't really get to the desktop today anyway
[20:32] <Stevethepirate> In what regard?
[20:32] <charlie-tca> broken today
[20:32] <Stevethepirate> Ohhh.
[20:32] <Stevethepirate> I'm about to do a dist-upgrade, wish me luck :)
[20:39]  * psusi likes making a snapshot to revert to before dist-upgrade
[20:39] <Stevethepirate> Hmm,.
[20:39] <gnomefreak> assuming that was pretty much the differences between netbook and regular install
[20:39]  * gnomefreak still not happy with having an OS icon on the unity bar
[20:40] <Amaranth> psusi: global menu is all windows, not just maximized
[20:40] <Amaranth> unity has some heuristic for maximizing windows automatically though
[20:40] <Amaranth> If they are created with a certain size, I guess
[20:40] <gnomefreak> that makes it way too easy to screw the other system up
[20:41] <gnomefreak> it is not beant to be removed same as desktop switcher and a few others
[20:41] <gnomefreak> s/beant/meant
[20:56] <gnomefreak> well damn i really have been away too long
[20:58] <charlie-tca> We really tried to switch to lightdm for natty, but it is not far enough along yet.
[20:58] <gnomefreak> i really hated the idea that xubuntu changed the login screen and everything else to default instead of keeping the set default
[20:58] <charlie-tca> huh? That xfce login screen sucks
[20:58] <gnomefreak> yes badly
[20:58] <gnomefreak> at least used to
[20:58] <gnomefreak> didnt we pretty much give up on webkit?
[20:58] <gnomefreak> IIRC it was to be the newest and greatest but seems to have fallen short of that that is i thought it did
[21:00] <gnomefreak> afaik the PPA hasnt been updated at all since sometime in maverick dev cycler
[21:02] <charlie-tca> I don't think we have. Webkit is still causing problems, such as trying to install from the 64bit desktop images
[21:05] <charlie-tca> !info webkit
[21:05] <charlie-tca> well, kick the 'bot again.  As far as I know, the version included in natty is the latest right now.
[21:06] <yofel> charlie-tca: well, which one? 'webkit' doesn't exist. libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 does
[21:07] <gnomefreak> thats just a library for webkit no?
[21:08] <yofel> it is, I'm just trying to guess what he means
[21:13] <charlie-tca> I don't know. I gave up on it
[21:15] <gnomefreak> apport adds a whole lot of inof when reporting unity bugs
[21:16] <gnomefreak> 1 down a lot more to go. /me lets dog out
[21:28] <gnomefreak> ok i thought ctrl+alt+print screen took a screenshot, has this changed or been disabled?
[21:28] <proti> hggdh: The upstart start mountall-net and that's it. Last command.
[21:29] <proti> I started a new shell in another tty then ran upstart.
[21:29] <gnomefreak> well i cant get any key combo to take screenshot
[21:29] <charlie-tca> printscreen or alt+printscreen
[21:30] <hggdh> proti: are you using wireless?
[21:30] <proti> hggdh:
[21:30] <proti> hggdh: not at all
[21:30] <hggdh> dammit
[21:30] <proti> This is workstation (Sun U20 and U27).
[21:30] <proti> It's just like the upstart wasn't told to start the system.
[21:31] <gnomefreak> charlie-tca: niether seem to be working
[21:32] <charlie-tca> maybe they aren't there yet. It is taking a while to get all the things working in unity
[21:32] <gnomefreak> yeah i noticed and expected it
[21:34] <hggdh> proti: mount-net deals with remote FSs, it should not block
[21:34] <proti> hggdh: it does not. The script finish correctly.
[21:35] <hggdh> snf then nothing?
[21:35] <proti> Then the upstart sits there and does nothing.
[21:35] <proti> correct
[21:35] <gnomefreak> charlie-tca: gnome-screenshot -d # works :)
[21:35] <hggdh> proti: home many FSs you have?
[21:35] <hggdh> s/home/how/
[21:35] <charlie-tca> not assigned to the shortcut yet, maybe
[21:36] <proti> hggdh: 4-5 ext2 boot / /usr /home /var and some others. But nothing complicated
[21:36] <gnomefreak> there 2 unity bugs reported i think i get a break now
[21:37] <hggdh> proti I have more -- /, /boot, /usr, /var, /tmp, /srv, /opt, /src
[21:37] <hggdh> proti: I wonder if this is hitting us because of multiple FSs
[21:38] <hggdh> I do not think anybody else experienced it
[21:38] <proti> hggdh: IHMO I don't think the fs(s) are the problem. The system got past the mounting and upstart starts some scripts.
[21:38] <proti> but udev is not started, neither X, neither the ttys.
[21:38]  * gnomefreak wonders what else i *have* to get done today
[21:39] <hggdh> charlie-tca: did you update & reboot your natty today?
[21:40] <hggdh> proti: X is later on the boot
[21:40] <charlie-tca> no, you said it was not a good idea
[21:40] <hggdh> yes, better safe
[21:40] <proti> hggdh: The udevs waits for virtual-filesystems which is provided by mountall.
[21:40] <charlie-tca> Want me to try it?
[21:41] <proti> yes, I would like to see at least tty(x).conf be run.
[21:41] <hggdh> udev is probably the issue
[21:41] <proti> tty1.conf does not relies on anything but the runlevel.
[21:41] <hggdh> charlie-tca: only if you accept not being able to reboot
[21:41] <charlie-tca> hm, I prefer being able to use the system
[21:41] <hggdh> :-)
[21:42] <hggdh> so please do not do it
[21:42] <proti> hggdh: hum, I'm not really convinced that udev is the culprit. mountall maybe. How do I check the emits is done in the upstart ?
[21:43] <gnomefreak> what is wrong with rebooting? i did it earlier
[21:44] <hggdh> gnomefreak: after applying all updates to natty?
[21:45] <hggdh> proti: AFAIK you would have to have a serial console (or something like it) so that you do no lose the boot messages
[21:45] <hggdh> then you boot with --verbose or init=/sbin/init --debug
[21:45] <hggdh> and follow the undescriptive messages init emits
[21:50] <gnomefreak> hggdh: all except the last 5 or so
[21:50]  * gnomefreak hasnt been paying attention but what bug do i need to look for
[21:50] <gnomefreak> hmmmm "find files isnt opening anything :(
[21:50] <gnomefreak> "
[21:50] <gnomefreak> ubuntu icon -> find files
[21:50] <gnomefreak> seems that is the only one in that dialog that fails.
[21:50]  * gnomefreak needs to stop finding bugs for today
[21:51] <hggdh> gnomefreak: do you use multiple filesystems, or just one?
[21:52] <yofel> I'm just installing last updates, but with the updates from ~8h ago my eeePC booted fine just now, root and home seperate on LVM
[21:54] <gnomefreak> hggdh: just one. im assuming the update that broke your system was one that required a restart?
[21:54] <gnomefreak> i have the most basic install possible
[21:55] <hggdh> gnomefreak: actually, I decided to reboot just because there where a lot of updates (including X); I decided to play safe (or, now, rather unsafe)
[21:56] <proti> hggdh: No, my problem is there is far too much messages. Those machines are workstations not servers with serials console.
[21:56] <hggdh> proti: yes, I know. Same issue here...
[21:56] <gnomefreak> i only saw a hand ful of X updates today and all but 1 i restarted after. i just had 1 come through not too long ago but i dont see that being the problem you are seeing
[21:57] <gnomefreak> these were the last ones since restart: binfmt-support libdbusmenu-glib3 libdbusmenu-gtk3 libdconf0 libutouch-frame1 x11-apps
[21:58] <hggdh> none of them sound as possible culprits. I *think* this may be related to multiple FSs, but it may be just by chance
[21:58] <yofel> with all updates from the german mirror my eeePC boots fine
[21:59] <hggdh> proti: last update to mountall was on Feb 9th, I doubt this would have impacted only now
[22:02] <proti> The problems occured today, but I last rebooted the machine 2-3 days ago.
[22:02] <proti> Between the 2.6.37-4 kernel and today.
[22:03] <proti> I'm now on my home machine (a workstation too). It does not shows the behavior of the 2 formers machines.
[22:10] <proti> hggdh: do you have a preference where to paste the list of packages ?
[22:10] <proti> hggdh: http://pastebin.com/jaJCeuAC
[22:10] <proti> This is the list of the packages installed today (the boot was ok today).
[22:10] <proti> I think if I reboot the machine now it'll be a problem.
[22:10] <proti> nothing really talking to me when looking at the list.
[22:10] <proti> maybe libc-bin 2.13-0ubuntu1 ureadahead
[22:18] <hggdh> indeed
[22:20] <hggdh> these two sound like possible candidates
[22:38] <proti> hggdh: Keep the list, my home workstation does not boot anymore.
[22:41] <proti> hggdh: All my machines have a point in common.
[22:41] <proti> 1 partition /boot, the rest is LVM.
[22:42] <hggdh> proti:  and multiple FSs under LVM, correct? I still think this has something to do, this is the common point (I do not have LVM)
[22:43] <proti> Indeed.
[22:43] <hggdh> dammit
[22:43] <hggdh> OK, I will open a bug on this
[22:43] <proti> However, all the problems happens after the disk mount.
[22:43] <hggdh> now, against what... I am not sure. I think I will start with the kernel
[22:44] <hggdh> yeah, I agree
[22:44] <hggdh> or, better stating nothing happens after mountall is triggered
[22:44] <proti> I think the kernel has nothing to do with it.
[22:45] <hggdh> I agree, but I do not know what to set as package
[22:45] <proti> The problem happens with 2.6.37-x and 2.6.38-[1234]
[22:46] <hggdh> oh
[22:46] <proti> The initrd of 2.3.37-x is old.
[22:46] <hggdh> *that* I did not know
[22:46] <hggdh> then... the plot thickens
[22:46] <hggdh> oh
[22:46] <hggdh> (again)
[22:47] <proti> Focus on the list I gave you. The culprit is inside.
[22:47] <hggdh> actually, no, it does not. the kernel may be old, but one of the updated packages may be causing it
[22:47] <hggdh> yes
[22:48] <proti> There are some obvious package not guilty.
[22:49] <proti> gnupg gpgv gcalctool libx11 and so on...
[22:49] <hggdh> yes indeed, I think libc6 and ureadahead are good chances
[22:50] <proti> I don't know enough of upstart unfortunately.
[22:51] <hggdh> upstart has not been changed since end of first week this month, so I would not count it in
[22:52] <proti> But smth around upstart. start udev works ok. start kdm does the correct thing.
[22:52] <proti> Something is wrong in the chain of actions.
[22:53] <hggdh> how did you open a new console that early in the boot?
[22:53] <proti> boot with break=bottom, then mount -o move all of the fs.
[22:54] <hggdh> duh
[22:54] <proti> Then chroot and run getty -8 -l -n /bin/bash tty2
[22:54] <proti> and then exit twice.
[22:55] <proti> fs = /proc /sys /dev and so on.
[22:56] <proti> Added --verbose too, I used this excellent page here : http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging
[22:57] <proti> Then I wished I knew which target to use for the network multiuser booting.
[23:04] <proti> hggdh: maybe python or pam.
[23:04] <proti> and espeak
[23:05] <Andre_Gondim> natty will be use gnome 3 or 2.32.x
[23:05] <Amaranth> 2.32.x
[23:05] <Andre_Gondim> thanks
[23:05] <rww> mayhaps we need a !gnome3 factoid
[23:08] <hggdh> proti: interesting. on the second term I re-executed mountall
[23:08] <hggdh> all FSs are now mounted
[23:09] <proti> Then ?
[23:10] <proti> Me too everything is mount ok and the command finish ok.
[23:10] <proti> but then nothing.
[23:11] <proti> It should if I read correctly emits virtual-filesystems which should start udev and so on.
[23:11] <proti> Instead it's like a sitting duck, idling.
[23:15] <hggdh> no, mine completed boot
[23:16] <proti> hggdh: I can open a bug -have a launchpad account. But I don't know how to file the bug.
[23:16] <hggdh> proti: actually I (on tty2) (1) after mounting the FSs '/sbin/initctl stop mountall; (2) /sbin/initctl start mountall
[23:17] <hggdh> proti: if you succeeed booting, you can run 'sudo ubuntu-bug upstart'
[23:17] <hggdh> not sure sudo is neede, but just in case...
[23:18] <hggdh> or, perhaps, mountall as the package
[23:18] <proti> hggdh: does the boot goes on (udev, network, tty...) ?
[23:19] <hggdh> it does, but I just found not all is OK
[23:19] <hggdh> I cannot mount my encrypted home
[23:19] <proti> Hum, I didn't check upon this one.
[23:20] <jibel_> hggdh, in your case it might be a race with mountall, I had a very similar issue some time ago with multiple fs on different disks.
[23:20] <jibel_> hggdh, I added a "sleep .1" before exec mountall in /etc/init/mountall.conf and that fixed it
[23:21] <jibel_> hggdh, I filed bug 712811
[23:21] <hggdh> jibel_: hum, I will try it
[23:21] <jibel_> upstart/mountall are very racy
[23:26] <proti> I started tty1 ok.
[23:27] <proti> /sbin/initctl start tty1 and got the prompt.
[23:27] <proti> start mountall did nothing but starting mountall.
[23:27] <proti> network is down.
[23:28] <proti> How do I know which jobs upstartd did start and which is blocked by smthg?
[23:32] <yofel> initctl list - that will dump the state of all known services
[23:32] <proti> yofel: thanks
[23:32] <yofel> although one-shot services like mountall will show as stopped after they finished
[23:34] <proti> I have upstart-udev-bridge plytmounth mountall (pid)  ureadahead
[23:35] <proti> running
[23:35] <proti> tty1 and tty2
[23:35] <proti> I forced them all start
[23:35] <proti> (dbus too).
[23:35] <hggdh> gpt X!
[23:35] <hggdh> proti
[23:35] <proti> gpt ???
[23:36] <hggdh> (1) reboot with init=/bin/bash (or /bin/sh)
[23:36] <hggdh> (2) just in case -- open two gettyś for tty2 and 3
[23:37] <hggdh> (3) on tty1 -- init -v -- this tty will be locked
[23:37] <hggdh> (4) on tty2 -- mount -a
[23:37] <hggdh> (5) on tty2 -- initctl stop mountall
[23:37] <hggdh> (6) on tty2 -- initctl start mountall
[23:37] <proti> ok will do
[23:38] <proti> rebooting now.
[23:38] <hggdh> proti, you might wat to add a delay as jibel_ pointed out, I did
[23:39] <hggdh> bloody hell, still no mounted /home/myself
[23:40] <proti> 1 and 2 ok
[23:41] <proti> hggdh: runlevel = 6 for init -v ?
[23:41] <proti> which one is now for multiusers text ?
[23:42] <hggdh> any from 2 to 6, IIRC
[23:43] <hggdh> oh text, no, text you pass a kernel parm on boot -- text
[23:44] <proti> 3 is ko (failed to connect to socket /com/ubuntu/upstart: connection refused).
[23:45] <proti> I think I nedd to exec /sbin/init from thell.
[23:45] <proti> shell*
[23:47] <proti> Forgot the -v.
[23:47] <proti> Only 2 services started
[23:47] <proti> plymouth and mountall
[23:47] <proti> with process
[23:48] <proti> I saw a ureadhead quit with status 5.
[23:50] <proti> hggdh: command (3) on tty2 hangs.
[23:50] <proti> hggdh: sorry I meant command (5).
[23:50] <hggdh> hum
[23:50] <hggdh> different behaviour
[23:50] <proti> wrong assertion
[23:51] <proti> The mountall command was stuck.
[23:51] <proti> command (6) is stuck
[23:51] <hggdh> weird
[23:52] <hggdh> trying again here
[23:52] <proti> How can I tell the upstart daemon to go verbose ?
[23:52] <proti> especially after having started it.
[23:53] <hggdh> I do not think you can
[23:53] <proti> too bad
[23:54] <proti> mountall is listed as process 457 but mountall daemon is 459.
[23:55] <hggdh> hum. my initctl stop mountall is also stuck
[23:55] <proti> welcome aboard
[23:56] <proti> running processes :
[23:56] <proti> /sbin/init, 2 /bin/bash one on each tty
[23:56] <proti> plymouthd and mountall --daemon
[23:57] <proti> Kill -15 did not terminated the mountall --daemon
[23:57] <proti> I had to kill -9 it.
[23:58] <hggdh> same here
[23:58] <hggdh> IDK