[00:36] i need someone to test g-t sound for me in natty [01:54] i cannot start ubuntu desktop edition, as it says unity failed, and compiz failed, is there any way i can install the fix for it? Launchpad says the fix has been released [01:55] first find out why it failed. Does opengl work fine on your graphics driver? [01:55] it doesn't seem like it does [01:56] steve__: what card do you have? [01:56] oh, the proprietary drivers arent activated [01:57] WAIT [01:57] thanks for the reality check [01:57] yes? [01:57] the nvidia (and ati I think) proprietary drivers don't work currently, trying to install them will remove X [01:58] close one [01:58] you either need to downgrade X or wait for working drivers to be released [01:59] okay [01:59] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1675614 has some info [01:59] i don't believe i have an nvidia card, but it recognizes it as one [02:00] you can open a terminal and run 'lspci | grep VGA' that'll tell you what you have [02:01] yeah, it's an nvidia 440mx [02:07] does KVM work fine for anyone? Here it seems like the DNS server it sets doesn't work (10.0.2.3), I need to set a different one by hand everytime [02:47] Will Gnome-Shell 3 be option in 11.04? [02:47] perscitus, I dont so [02:48] unless it will be in the repositories [02:48] Unity is junk that shell [02:48] perscitus, you will be far better off with compiz as the base in unity [02:48] Im better of without unity [02:49] perscitus, well you could switch to classic gnome desktop on natty [02:49] I have installed 32 bit daily into virtualbox and then installed the additions - the additions seemed to install without error. However, when I start up the vm now gets the first dot on the boot screen and goes to a blank terminal that can echo keyboard but nothing else. Has anyone else heard of this? [02:49] zzing, nvidia? [02:49] ati? [02:49] coz_: The host is nvidia (mac), but I don't know about what ubuntu sees as the client [02:50] zzing, if nvidia it may the issue ,,, it is broken right now [02:50] coz_, im not asking for classic. [02:51] Natty won't have GNOME 3 in the repositories, but will have a PPA for it. GNOME 3 is targetted for natty+1. [02:51] coz_: It appears that nvidia will not be exposed to ubuntu [02:52] So it is not likely that [02:52] zzing, in then I am not sure [02:52] perscitus, i assume you are using unity 11.04 now ...yes? [02:52] rww, Whats natty=1? [02:52] perscitus: the release after natty [02:53] I hate Unity. [02:53] Does ubuntu have net installs or something so I don't have to download another 600+ mb? [02:54] zzing, I think after the release the will a minimal install cd about 12 megs which installs directly from internet [02:54] "there will be" [02:54] !hate [02:54] hate is a thing we don't encourage - why waste your energy [02:54] zzing, other previous versions have the minimal install cd now [02:55] coz_: I couldn't find those, where do I look? [02:55] zzing, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD [02:55] perscitus: Please don't send me PMs about your opinion of Unity. I don't use it, or Ubuntu, and am thus not likely to care. [02:55] I don't like the Unity looks and the way it behaves. And makes using the desktop much much harder [02:56] thank you [02:56] zzing, no problem [02:57] perscitus, and you prefer gnome-shell .. yes? I personally prefer calssic gnome desktop,, I only use Unity occasionally to test compiz and report bugs [02:57] coz_, yeah. [02:58] perscitus, well as rww mentioned it will only be avialable via PPA [02:58] for 11.04 [02:59] Gnome 3 does have April release [02:59] perscitus, Unity does have compiz at it's base ,, have you played with ccsm to make more to your liking? [02:59] authide panel for example [02:59] perscitus: Yup. And even assuming that it doesn't get delayed again, that's way, way too late in the release cycle for Ubuntu 11.04 to use it. [02:59] Unity belongs on netbook release. thats it. Which should be renamed to Ubuntu Mobile [03:00] perscitus, I am not sure I completely disagree with you , however .,,. there it is :) [03:00] Netbook is dead fab [03:00] especially in a release cycle where testing is already going to be burdened with a new default UI. [03:01] The only good thing about Unity is its good for touchscreens. UNforunately, Ubuntu is for DESKTOPS and not touchscreen [03:01] mm I believe touchscreen is implimented ...yes? [03:04] There is one more reason i hate Unity. I dispised groups of people who break off from main groups when their time is better spent working together. You know, like Beryl and Compiz. And then they rejoined. [03:04] perscitus, well Beryl and compiz were actually the same team [03:05] perscitus, very few of the developers had changed at that point [03:05] perscitus, it was more an internal political problem more than anything [03:05] If all the time spent on Unity could have been applied to Gnome Shell 3, maybe it be ready for Natty in time. [03:06] perscitus, well gnome-shell ,, has been in the past... a resource hog... i have no idea where it stands at this point with that issue however [03:06] mutter has been dropped for compiz [03:06] in 11.04 [03:07] and one of the big reasons is mutters issues [03:08] OSS has allot of 'political' issues. It's why its only 1-2% of the market. [03:08] perscitus, I suggest you play with ccsm settings to set Unity to a more "tolerable" workspace for yourself [03:09] More tolerable ... sorry cant. Launcher cant be moved [03:09] Launcher is in the wrong place [03:09] perscitus, there is an autohide feature for that that stays hidden until you mouse over the upper left corener of the screen ,,, over the ubuntu logo [03:10] Launcher belongs at the bottom. [03:10] perscitus, ccsm - Ubuntu Unity Plugin [03:10] "Hide Launcher" pulldown to "Autohide" [03:11] i dont want autohide. i just want it at the bottom [03:11] perscitus, the other alternative along with autohide is one of the several docks available ,,, I suggest cairo-dock [03:12] and if you choose cairo-dock I would go with the weekly build or compile the bzr developer's version [03:12] there is a bug in valac but we have taken care of the when compiling cairo dock,,, I dont think the bug has been fixed but the dock bypasses that during compile [03:14] The whole thing is mute [03:14] moot [03:14] Since i spend most my time in Windows 7 [03:14] perscitus, well unless you are willing to re code the launcher in Unity I dont see another solution [03:15] I used to spend all my time in Ubuntu. Now im lucky to spend 5 hours a week in it [03:15] perscitus, if you want to do that you might want to go to #ayatana and speak with a few of the developers [03:16] I once saw great potential in Linux and Ubuntu but year ago, I realized its going no where. [03:17] perscitus, I believe that would be considered lack of vision not accurate forsight [03:17] foresight [03:17] #ubuntu+1 is for discussion and support of Ubuntu development releases. If you'd like to rant about the state of the Linux desktop, try #ubuntu-offtopic. [03:17] Google is only one who has made any headroom [03:18] And Android 3 kills tablet touchscreen use for Unity. [03:18] perscitus, is there anything that any of us can help you with to move to a more useable Unity desktop? [03:19] you do know that gnome isn't the only desktop environment out there? try KDE, xfce or lxde for a change and we are keeping classic gnome for natty too [03:19] and GNOME 3 will be in Ubuntu 11.10... [03:19] perscitus, yes you might well like the kde net book edition [03:19] kde netbook. yuck. [03:19] thats worse then unity [03:20] I have had a week of grumpy people ... I am out of here [03:21] you mean I just had to leave? :) [03:21] ^^ [03:21] lol [03:21] oy [06:39] Does anyone have Natty running successfully in a VBOX VM with 3d? [06:41] magn3ts: let me guess it goes to a black terminal on reboot [06:42] zzing, the latest one, yes. [06:42] I just did this same thing only 4 hours ago and ended up with the same [06:42] or as I described [06:42] I reverted back to the release and 3d worked [06:44] zzing, release? the alpha? [06:44] the stable [06:44] 10.10? yeah, it works great! [06:45] even if the alpha, it would blabber about 3d not working, would launch unity + gnome-panel, and then upon resize, unity would go bonkers and not move properly :/ [06:45] The daily looks like the ripped the mac off :p [06:46] I just want to try it. I've tried nightlies of the last several releases, but if it means rebooting and giving up a physical part, its not going to happen. I'lll just sit and keep looking at screenshots [06:48] magn3ts: Are you running linux now? [06:48] 10.10 amd64 is my host, yeah. [06:48] ok [06:48] My host is mac [10:13] hey guys [10:13] hi [10:22] i cant find software center [10:23] found it === yofel_ is now known as yofel [12:44] hi all [12:44] !unity-2D [12:45] is there anyway to deactivate the constant error reporting messages popping-up even if everything seems to be ok? I.e. xchat closed due to error, but it's actually still open [13:02] pr0ph3t: maybe you have a xchat crash in /var/crash, it'll pop up until you either report it or delete the .crash file [13:03] if you don't want to be prompted for crashes at all disable apport in /etc/default/apport [13:03] yofel, thanks [13:27] good afternoon [13:28] i got this message >conflicting fb hw usage inteldrmfb vs VESA VGA and my desktop is twice 420x360 in clone mode [13:29] i can't see any recent bug report about this [13:37] that's probably the since we have vesa fb enabled by default now, and the KMS drivers don't seem to like it. Makes plymouth unusable here, I need to test something though before I report a bug myself [13:37] s/the// [13:38] ok [13:42] ho i installed and use startupmanager it solved my worrie :o) === duanedesign is now known as evilduanedesign === evilduanedesign is now known as duanedesign [15:44] I can't update canberra latest from the update manager, you have the same problem? [16:05] anyone hanging on boot after latest updates? [16:54] shouldn't unity be the default environment on 11.04 alpha 2 ? [16:54] only if the video card is supporting 3d [16:55] If not, it will default to 2d [16:55] oh, ok [16:55] i'm testing it on virtualbox, that's why. [16:57] so you need to have guest additions installed, then you can select the unity desktop at login [17:00] cool, will do that. thanks [17:01] speaking of unity, what can I do to get a visible CPU usage indicator? [17:07] jml, I don't think there is any such indicator in the official repos, but there are so many different indicators in PPAs === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [17:18] morning (UGT) :) [17:20] After the daily update I got to machines frozen at boot in a really strange way. [17:20] two* [17:21] upstart starts normally but does not spawn any tty and does not starts gdm/kdm either. [17:21] Making the machine usuable. [17:23] Is there something wrong with upstart scripts ? [18:25] proti: does it finish boot? [18:26] reason is, right now my machine hangs on boot [18:28] ok so its been a long time since i used mutter/compiz/beryl/ect... im using unity atm is there a way to make for example my desktop rain or snow or fire or what not? [18:29] when i say long time i mean when i first started the beryl team [18:30] !ccsm | gnomefreak ( [18:30] gnomefreak (: To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' or 'simple-ccsm'. If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz [18:31] Pici: this is unity there isnt really a apperance menu at least not that i can find [18:31] not sure if we phased out mutter yet either [18:31] gnomefreak: Well, you could always run compizconfig-settings-manager manually after the install. [18:32] Pici: thanks. [18:33] it ooks like it has been replaced already [18:33] s/ooks/looks [18:34] Pici: is one preffered over the other? [18:36] gnomefreak: which? [18:36] the compizconfig-settings-manager or simple-ccsm [18:37] i know it is personal preference but i dont know the difference between them thats why i ask [18:39] gnomefreak: Both packages have been available for some time. [18:39] hey guys [18:40] hi coz_ [18:41] gnomefreak, hey guy [18:41] thanks Pici i will start with simple for now [18:42] gnomefreak: actually compizconfig-settings-manager is better IMO [18:42] The following extra packages will be installed: compizconfig-settings-manager python-compizconfig [18:42] simple-ccsm installs both packages [18:42] simple one has weird options.. [19:16] ok i found apperance but visual; effects is not in there, only background font and theme [19:17] compizconfig settings is in the menu options though :) [19:21] gnomefreak, Effects tab was removed. [19:22] ok that sucked. i opened compiz settings dialog and ticked water effect and i lost both gnome panels upper and unity and lost the ability to open/close/use anything else. had to restart gdm [19:22] this is a bad thing. my card can handle the load and so can system, so i have to blame it on compiz or the ati drivers [19:24] i was really hoping to use ati card without issues but this has happened for a while now. not just compiz settings. and since nvidia-current is broken its not a good idea to use the 9500 card yet [19:26] will 11.04 work on a laptop with an Intel Processor (probably intel graphics card?)? [19:26] yes should. intel has a bug atm due to the new X api. the link is in the /topic [19:27] Unity crashes every time I open ccsm [19:27] Which is why I'm on metacity [19:27] ok this is strange. to enable desktop cube i have to disable desktop wall and the unity plugin. im scared to disable unity plugin [19:27] Desktop cube doesn't look like compatible with unity at all. [19:27] Daekdroom: as long as i dont play with it im fine. [19:27] Given how unity manages the desktops. [19:28] it seems its not and i miss the cibe [19:28] I never used the cube [19:28] i did back when i was running beryl [19:28] so when it says other X applications, does this include X-Moto? [19:28] a bunch of years ago [19:29] Gulfstream: i guess you mean the PPA? [19:29] gnomefreak: no, on the known issues message [19:29] Gulfstream: not sure. i am guessing its broken there too but i dont work with or have upload access to X code [19:30] Gulfstream: i know just about everything you see there. i havent dug too deep into the problem but seems i may be doing that this week if ati keeps giving me issues [19:33] ok good news i dont think it is desktop cube, it seems to be EVERYTHING that is not default that breaks it for me [19:33] * gnomefreak brb this is bothering the hell out of me [19:43] hggdh: No, it hangs. But trying verbose upstart shows upstart starting up correctly. [19:44] It justs forgets to starts some / all of the services. [19:44] It tries to start mountall-net and that's it. [19:48] it seems that the whole compiz/unity issue is that compiz is crashing. there is a work around though it looks like [19:50] since im lost i guess i missed something during the crashes and such [19:52] gnomefreak, did you try compiz on classic gnome to test it? [19:52] there is no way to refresh rhythmbox. i have to eject cd than push it back in for it to load again. due to restarting gdm im sure of it [19:53] coz_: no but i found out from seb that it is crashing. i am looking for the bug now [19:53] ah ok [19:54] i get the feeling its not going to be easy to find === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [19:57] proti it hangs at what point (i.e., what are the last messages you see on the console)? [19:57] in my case they stop after fsck starting and signalling the filesystems are clean [19:57] coz_: see bug 682550 [19:57] Launchpad bug 682550 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz crashes when enabling or disabling a plugin in ccsm" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/682550 [19:58] gnomefreak, oh yes I have experienced that as well [19:58] gnomefreak, I generally just compile 0.9.x and run it on natty ,, i dont use the default not for Unity though [20:01] it seems that when it charshes i was using gdm restart but if i just restarted display it would keep the options enabled. but i can wait until the fix. at least it is known [20:01] brb [20:09] hggdh: exactly at same point [20:10] anyone using mozilla team PPA minefield + unity? [20:10] Try adding --verbose at the cmdline and it'll be showing what's happening after the fsck. [20:12] I have 2 machines that I updated today, and both showed the same problem. [20:25] You probably get this a lot; but how stable is Alpha 2? :) [20:25] proti: yes, it _does_ sound like init issues. Do you have multiple filesystems? [20:25] Stevethepirate: depends on how bad you need to be able to use the system daily [20:25] As long as it is not absolutely needed, it is great [20:25] charlie-tca: right now, for example, my machine is dead... [20:25] Well, when it crashes, from the YT vid's I've seen, X crashes a lot. [20:25] This is not a problem, as its a netbook, just need ssh on it rly :) [20:25] Then you just answered your own question [20:25] it is not stable [20:25] Well. [20:25] I'm not sure if thats just the 3/4 YT vid's I've seen. [20:25] But ok, thank you. [20:26] Stevethepirate: X problem are around (see /topic) also unity+compiz are problems, and more [20:26] proti: yes, I had already run with init=/sbin/init --debug (which, I guess, gives you the same thing as --verbose, didn't know about that one). In my case I see upstart stopping after mounted-tmp ended [20:26] if you use the PC 1 time a month for about 1 hour each time you should be ok :) [20:26] only if you pick a time that everything is working, though [20:26] netbook uses unity by default doesnt it? [20:28] In 10.04 yeah [20:28] I mean 10.10 [20:28] In 11.04 there is no netbook edition for now [20:28] * gnomefreak has found alot of bugs in the last week or so that i have been trying to work out but out of something like 20 i still have say 15-17 still to work on [20:28] yay highest CPU% is 5 this is a first for me :) [20:28] make that 6 [20:28] ubuntu-netbook package seems deprecated [20:29] i have browsers open with tabs a cd playing on unity and it switches between X and rhythmbox [20:29] ah maybe because unity is default for gnome? [20:30] gnomefreak: I guess that is acceptable; I literally only use non-CLI when I'm bored :) [20:30] yup, with unity default for Ubuntu, a separate netbook edition is no longer needed [20:30] As long as the release doesn't make the PC rebooot every few hours :) [20:31] I liked the global menu in the old netbook edition since all windows were maximized... but I don't like it in Unity for unmaximized windows. I hope they made it only use the global menu for maximized windows. [20:31] Stevethepirate: shouldn't be a problem, can't really get to the desktop today anyway [20:32] In what regard? [20:32] broken today [20:32] Ohhh. [20:32] I'm about to do a dist-upgrade, wish me luck :) [20:39] * psusi likes making a snapshot to revert to before dist-upgrade [20:39] Hmm,. [20:39] assuming that was pretty much the differences between netbook and regular install [20:39] * gnomefreak still not happy with having an OS icon on the unity bar [20:40] psusi: global menu is all windows, not just maximized [20:40] unity has some heuristic for maximizing windows automatically though [20:40] If they are created with a certain size, I guess [20:40] that makes it way too easy to screw the other system up [20:41] it is not beant to be removed same as desktop switcher and a few others [20:41] s/beant/meant [20:56] well damn i really have been away too long [20:58] We really tried to switch to lightdm for natty, but it is not far enough along yet. [20:58] i really hated the idea that xubuntu changed the login screen and everything else to default instead of keeping the set default [20:58] huh? That xfce login screen sucks [20:58] yes badly [20:58] at least used to [20:58] didnt we pretty much give up on webkit? [20:58] IIRC it was to be the newest and greatest but seems to have fallen short of that that is i thought it did === john__ is now known as 5EXAB9F6A [21:00] afaik the PPA hasnt been updated at all since sometime in maverick dev cycler [21:02] I don't think we have. Webkit is still causing problems, such as trying to install from the 64bit desktop images [21:05] !info webkit [21:05] Package webkit does not exist in natty [21:05] well, kick the 'bot again. As far as I know, the version included in natty is the latest right now. [21:06] charlie-tca: well, which one? 'webkit' doesn't exist. libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 does [21:07] thats just a library for webkit no? [21:08] it is, I'm just trying to guess what he means [21:13] I don't know. I gave up on it [21:15] apport adds a whole lot of inof when reporting unity bugs [21:16] 1 down a lot more to go. /me lets dog out [21:28] ok i thought ctrl+alt+print screen took a screenshot, has this changed or been disabled? [21:28] hggdh: The upstart start mountall-net and that's it. Last command. [21:29] I started a new shell in another tty then ran upstart. [21:29] well i cant get any key combo to take screenshot [21:29] printscreen or alt+printscreen [21:30] proti: are you using wireless? [21:30] hggdh: [21:30] hggdh: not at all [21:30] dammit [21:30] This is workstation (Sun U20 and U27). [21:30] It's just like the upstart wasn't told to start the system. [21:31] charlie-tca: niether seem to be working [21:32] maybe they aren't there yet. It is taking a while to get all the things working in unity [21:32] yeah i noticed and expected it [21:34] proti: mount-net deals with remote FSs, it should not block [21:34] hggdh: it does not. The script finish correctly. [21:35] snf then nothing? [21:35] Then the upstart sits there and does nothing. [21:35] correct [21:35] charlie-tca: gnome-screenshot -d # works :) [21:35] proti: home many FSs you have? [21:35] s/home/how/ [21:35] not assigned to the shortcut yet, maybe [21:36] hggdh: 4-5 ext2 boot / /usr /home /var and some others. But nothing complicated [21:36] there 2 unity bugs reported i think i get a break now [21:37] proti I have more -- /, /boot, /usr, /var, /tmp, /srv, /opt, /src [21:37] proti: I wonder if this is hitting us because of multiple FSs [21:38] I do not think anybody else experienced it [21:38] hggdh: IHMO I don't think the fs(s) are the problem. The system got past the mounting and upstart starts some scripts. [21:38] but udev is not started, neither X, neither the ttys. [21:38] * gnomefreak wonders what else i *have* to get done today [21:39] charlie-tca: did you update & reboot your natty today? [21:40] proti: X is later on the boot [21:40] no, you said it was not a good idea [21:40] yes, better safe [21:40] hggdh: The udevs waits for virtual-filesystems which is provided by mountall. [21:40] Want me to try it? [21:41] yes, I would like to see at least tty(x).conf be run. [21:41] udev is probably the issue [21:41] tty1.conf does not relies on anything but the runlevel. [21:41] charlie-tca: only if you accept not being able to reboot [21:41] hm, I prefer being able to use the system [21:41] :-) [21:42] so please do not do it [21:42] hggdh: hum, I'm not really convinced that udev is the culprit. mountall maybe. How do I check the emits is done in the upstart ? [21:43] what is wrong with rebooting? i did it earlier [21:44] gnomefreak: after applying all updates to natty? [21:45] proti: AFAIK you would have to have a serial console (or something like it) so that you do no lose the boot messages [21:45] then you boot with --verbose or init=/sbin/init --debug [21:45] and follow the undescriptive messages init emits [21:50] hggdh: all except the last 5 or so [21:50] * gnomefreak hasnt been paying attention but what bug do i need to look for [21:50] hmmmm "find files isnt opening anything :( [21:50] " [21:50] ubuntu icon -> find files [21:50] seems that is the only one in that dialog that fails. [21:50] * gnomefreak needs to stop finding bugs for today [21:51] gnomefreak: do you use multiple filesystems, or just one? [21:52] I'm just installing last updates, but with the updates from ~8h ago my eeePC booted fine just now, root and home seperate on LVM [21:54] hggdh: just one. im assuming the update that broke your system was one that required a restart? [21:54] i have the most basic install possible [21:55] gnomefreak: actually, I decided to reboot just because there where a lot of updates (including X); I decided to play safe (or, now, rather unsafe) [21:56] hggdh: No, my problem is there is far too much messages. Those machines are workstations not servers with serials console. [21:56] proti: yes, I know. Same issue here... [21:56] i only saw a hand ful of X updates today and all but 1 i restarted after. i just had 1 come through not too long ago but i dont see that being the problem you are seeing [21:57] these were the last ones since restart: binfmt-support libdbusmenu-glib3 libdbusmenu-gtk3 libdconf0 libutouch-frame1 x11-apps [21:58] none of them sound as possible culprits. I *think* this may be related to multiple FSs, but it may be just by chance [21:58] with all updates from the german mirror my eeePC boots fine [21:59] proti: last update to mountall was on Feb 9th, I doubt this would have impacted only now [22:02] The problems occured today, but I last rebooted the machine 2-3 days ago. [22:02] Between the 2.6.37-4 kernel and today. [22:03] I'm now on my home machine (a workstation too). It does not shows the behavior of the 2 formers machines. === IdleOne_ is now known as IdleOne [22:10] hggdh: do you have a preference where to paste the list of packages ? [22:10] hggdh: http://pastebin.com/jaJCeuAC [22:10] This is the list of the packages installed today (the boot was ok today). [22:10] I think if I reboot the machine now it'll be a problem. [22:10] nothing really talking to me when looking at the list. [22:10] maybe libc-bin 2.13-0ubuntu1 ureadahead [22:18] indeed [22:20] these two sound like possible candidates [22:38] hggdh: Keep the list, my home workstation does not boot anymore. [22:41] hggdh: All my machines have a point in common. [22:41] 1 partition /boot, the rest is LVM. [22:42] proti: and multiple FSs under LVM, correct? I still think this has something to do, this is the common point (I do not have LVM) [22:43] Indeed. [22:43] dammit [22:43] OK, I will open a bug on this [22:43] However, all the problems happens after the disk mount. [22:43] now, against what... I am not sure. I think I will start with the kernel [22:44] yeah, I agree [22:44] or, better stating nothing happens after mountall is triggered [22:44] I think the kernel has nothing to do with it. [22:45] I agree, but I do not know what to set as package [22:45] The problem happens with 2.6.37-x and 2.6.38-[1234] === zniavre__ is now known as zniavre [22:46] oh [22:46] The initrd of 2.3.37-x is old. [22:46] *that* I did not know [22:46] then... the plot thickens [22:46] oh [22:46] (again) [22:47] Focus on the list I gave you. The culprit is inside. [22:47] actually, no, it does not. the kernel may be old, but one of the updated packages may be causing it [22:47] yes [22:48] There are some obvious package not guilty. [22:49] gnupg gpgv gcalctool libx11 and so on... [22:49] yes indeed, I think libc6 and ureadahead are good chances [22:50] I don't know enough of upstart unfortunately. [22:51] upstart has not been changed since end of first week this month, so I would not count it in [22:52] But smth around upstart. start udev works ok. start kdm does the correct thing. [22:52] Something is wrong in the chain of actions. [22:53] how did you open a new console that early in the boot? [22:53] boot with break=bottom, then mount -o move all of the fs. [22:54]