=== API is now known as Guest42549
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Pendulumanyone on twitter who wants to RT http://twitter.com/#!/colona13/status/40020405666189312 it would be greatly appreciated :)12:46
AlanBellI can't make the meeting12:56
PendulumAlanBell: aww12:56
PendulumAlanBell: if it's asked, are you willing to look at sponsorship apps?12:56
AlanBellyes, I am12:57
Pendulumgreat :)12:57
Pendulum(I know jono was thinking that having some of the same stuff in place as Ubuntu Women would be useful)12:57
AlanBelldid both fields get boosted to 3000 characters?12:58
PendulumI'll ask12:58
* AlanBell just did12:59
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AlanBell< jcastro> AlanBell: just the text area15:00
AlanBellso is that enough for the other information/special requirements area for people with more complicated accessibility needs?15:01
AlanBellworth asking in the meeting15:02
Pendulumalthough IME the best thing to do is to e-mail once you've got sponsorship15:03
Pendulum(which is something I'm going to bring up because people don't think about it)15:03
=== duanedesign is now known as evilduanedesign
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Pendulumreminder that we've got a UDS-related meeting in 40 minutes!19:21
Pendulumcharlie-tca: ^^19:22
charlie-tcaokay, thanks. that's here, right?19:23
Pendulumyes :)19:23
* charlie-tca mumbles something about not being disabled 19:24
Pendulumcharlie-tca: I use British disability/impairment terms ;)19:25
PendulumBritish is that you have an impairment and are disabled by society/architecture (so are a 'disabled person')19:26
charlie-tcaOh, maybe that does apply then. 19:26
Pendulumpart of the problem with being an international group 19:26
Pendulumbecause disability-related wording is not the same everywhere19:27
charlie-tcaI think more of myself as sometimes challenged19:27
PendulumI'm either a person with a disability (American) or disabled person (British)19:27
Pendulumoh, and sometimes refer to myself as a crip or a raspberry19:27
Pendulumraspberry is from cockney rhyming slang19:28
charlie-tcaI am only disabled part time, sometimes things do work, even it they are not fully functional19:28
Pendulumthe only word that really makes me cringe is handicappec19:29
charlie-tcaYeah, that's the one I try to avoid19:29
Pendulumwell and "wheelchair bound" or "confined to a wheelchair"19:30
charlie-tcamy sister is now 100% disabled, as ruled by social secuity, due to pain19:30
Pendulumand don't get me started on r*tarded19:30
JanCin Belgium the recommended word now translates to something like "differently abled"  ;)19:31
charlie-tcaI like that better19:32
PendulumI don't like differently abled, but that's just me19:32
Pendulumit doesn't make me cringe19:32
charlie-tcaIt says "not necessarily disabled" 19:32
Pendulumit just strikes me as beating around the bush19:32
Pendulumwell that's why I am willing to say that I have an impairment19:33
PendulumI'm disabled by the fact that the world is made with stairs19:33
Pendulumand because some people assume I'm not as capable for most jobs because I use a wheelchair19:34
Pendulumbut ultimately, I don't fuss too much in wording19:34
Pendulumbecause you're always going to get it wrong with someone19:34
charlie-tcaah, yes. That is disabled, unfortunately. I can still navigate them, even though it is with great difficulty some days19:34
Pendulumtbh, I can manage stairs if I have to, but having to tends to cause situations like I'm in right now where I'm double dosing on pain meds and barely able to walk19:35
charlie-tcathat's not okay. I have been letting some stuff go lately, because it hurts too much to do them. Maybe I have to rethink my own definitions soon19:39
* UndiFineD feels sleepy19:46
Pendulumhiya UndiFineD, hajour :)19:49
charlie-tcaUndiFineD, hajour : Hello19:49
Pendulumhiya joanie :)19:50
joaniehey Pendulum :-)19:50
Pendulumjoanie: did you get my e-mail last week about the Orca logo?19:51
joaniependulum oh crap. I did. and I started looking and then someone pinged me and I got distracted and forgot19:52
joanieI suck19:52
Pendulumjoanie: s'ok. you haven't held anything up, was just curious19:52
joanieto be honest, my *assumption* is that there is no problem19:53
joaniethat logo got created as part of a 'use tango' campaign19:53
joaniesome designer showed up and said "we're redoing your logo"19:53
joaniewe gave feedback19:53
joanieand we got the result19:53
joanieand we like it19:53
Pendulumit's a great logo :)19:54
hajourhai all19:54
joanieanyhoo, my point is that I have a hard time believing that we'd accept it if it had a bogus (read closed) license19:54
hajoursorry i had something to do first19:54
joanieso as far as I'm concerned, you should feel free to use it19:54
joanieif we need to do an actual confirmation that the license is open and/or what specifically it is, I still need to do that (obviously)19:55
Pendulumjoanie: I'm more concerned about the fact that I can't release the code in the app if I release the app (so making sure that part of it is okay to use it)19:55
Pendulumbut it wouldn't be anything for profit19:55
hajourwe go upstream but without wintermute. we will work together if they want but we go not be a cooperating19:55
joaniePendulum: understood I'll look19:55
hajoursorry for interrupting Pendulum 19:55
Pendulumhajour: it's fine. can you and I talk after the UDS meeting because I want to make sure stuff is all okay?19:56
TheMusoYo folks.19:57
jononearly ready :-)19:57
PendulumTheMuso: thank you for getting up so early!19:57
TheMusoPendulum: Its fine, I am usually up at this time.19:58
hajouryes ok Pendulum 19:59
hajoursorry i had much to organise because the upstream thing19:59
Pendulumhajour: not a problem.19:59
Pendulumjono: do you want me to run the bot?20:00
jonook, are all ready?20:00
jonoPendulum, sure :-)20:00
meetingologyMeeting started Tue Feb 22 20:00:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.20:00
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.20:00
jonook, so this meeting was requested by Pendulum20:01
jonorecently we have been running a diversity programme with the Ubuntu Women20:01
jonoPendulum was asking if we could do something similar for a11y20:01
jonoI think it is a great idea20:01
jonoI think we should ensure UDS is a fully accessible environment20:02
jonowhat I am seeking advice on is what we can do to make it more accessible20:02
macoyou've already heard my request for better labeling of foods for those with dietary restrictions20:03
PendulumI think one thing is making sure people know where/how to get information regarding access issues20:03
jonomaco, yep20:04
PendulumI've known several people who've mentioned needs in their "extra information" section on the Sponsorship app, but from what I can tell the way to ensure that actually gets looked at is to talk to Marianne20:04
TheMusoI also think we need to make sure people who have access issues are included in end-of-day activities, i.e I have heard reports of Nicolas Pittr from Linaro sometimes being left in his room at the end of the day, and people not making sure he participates in something.20:04
jonoright, so let me note some of these things down20:04
Pendulumyeah. The only reason I've managed a bunch of the off-site activities is because I can get out of my chair and crawl up some bus steps20:05
TheMusoSuch reports are not confirmed, but it does concern me.20:05
Pendulum(this includes an Ubuntu Women dinner)20:05
jono * making sure food allergies are properly catered for (pun intended) :-)20:05
jono * ensuring accessibility features in the venue are included in the information on the website and handouts.20:06
Pendulumalso, from a physical access side, and this is something I'm happy to talk to Marianne or someone else who does some of the planning about questions to ask. Since as we found out last UDS you often get issues like "accessible rooms only have one bed" and we only found out before checking in because I knew to ask20:06
jonofor the end of day activities, I am less clear on20:06
Pendulumjono: things like the off-site transportation, I think20:06
jonoTheMuso, is the issue that Nicolas was unable to participate or no one invited him?20:07
macoPendulum: buses should have lifts, right?20:07
Pendulumlifts if possible20:07
TheMusojono: The issue is that he was essentially dumped, or fogotten.20:07
TheMusoi.e nobody though to check in and make sure he was included in dinner plans etc.20:08
jonoTheMuso, so the issue is that someone did not specifically invite him to participate?20:08
TheMusogah typing sucks this morning.20:08
pleia2some folks from the Hungarian LoCo have offered to put together some night tourism events, so we should make sure they (and other 3rd parties planning events) are kept in the accessibility loop20:08
jonoTheMuso, I am trying to understand if it was a venue access issue or that he was not invited to take part20:08
pleia2(I can do that for ubuntu-hu, just tell me what I need to tell them :))20:08
TheMusojono: It was not a venue access issue, it was that he was not invited to take part.20:08
jonoTheMuso, right, that is what I thought you mean't20:09
jono(this is actually an issue for non-impaired people too - some folks who are new or shy don't get invited or end up sitting in their rooms)20:09
jonoso this is an issue I think we should fix in a non-specific-to-a11y way20:09
pleia2jono: +120:09
charlie-tcaFor those with disabilities, it becomes an issue as to whether or not to try and join in, knowing the entire will be slowed down.20:10
charlie-tcaIt is different if the group says, "come on, we have time for you to be with us"20:10
macojono: i think TheMuso means people'd think "oh, how about nicolas...oh, he couldnt get where we're going anyway...nevermind" instead of "nicolas wouldnt be able to get htere, so lets come up with a new plan"20:10
jonomaco, then that is a venue issue20:11
jonoif nicolas could not participate because of the environment, that is one thing, but he could participate in an environment accessible to his needs, we need to focus on making folks feel more connected20:11
macoor at least aware that coming up with alternative plans is the polite & considerate thing to do20:11
jonoso for the venue element - I think we can leave this to Marianna to ensure we have accessible events20:12
jonomaco, agreed, but I am not aware of any UDS events that include the full group other than the Friday night, which is always accessible20:12
Pendulumjono: do make sure she knows to feel free to ask me if she's unsure about something :)20:12
jonoit sounds like TheMuso is referring to just a group of people deciding to get together20:12
Pendulumjono: but you do get a lot of team dinners which rely on the Canonical-provided transportation which is often *not* accessible20:13
jonoand we can't mandate how everyone spends their evenings20:13
jonoPendulum, right, accessible transportation is key20:13
jonoI am noting that down20:13
pleia2jono: as far as making it non-specific to a11y, is there a formal way that groups who want to do events (ubuntu women dinner, ubuntu-hu night tourism) can get them set up and announced if they want wider participation than just the few people then directly invite?20:13
Pendulumpleia2: +120:13
pleia2I know czajkowski has done such events, I think she said she contacted Marianna directly to get it arranged, but that isn't widely known :)20:14
jonopleia2, we currently don't have a process - usually people talk to Marianna and before the post lunch plenaries kick off I go to Marianna and she gives me a list of announcements20:14
jonoI think we can formalize this process20:14
jonoand get it on uds.ubuntu.com20:14
pleia2that'd be great20:14
jononoted :-)20:15
jonothe tough nut to crack is people's own evening arrangements20:24
jonoas in, a non-formal event, just a bunch of people getting together - we can't really mandate accessibility on those folks20:24
jonowe can though, encourage it20:24
jonoformal events...they are differet20:24
Pendulumjono: is it possible to put something on uds.ubuntu.com about how to address accessibility concerns? Because I doubt most people know "e-mail Marianna who is the queen of everything UDS related" ;-)20:24
Pendulumjono: also, with regards to the friday night party, can we please not repeat the lighting from last UDS's party? I was one of several people who ended up with headaches/had trouble with it20:24
jonoPendulum, my plan is to formalize the process of how people participate20:24
jonoand organize evening events20:24
jonoand put this on uds.ubuntu.com20:24
jonoPendulum, re. the lighting, you should talk to Marianna about that20:24
Pendulumjono: yeah, I was thinking more in germs of general things like "who do I contact if I need to make sure I have an accessible room."20:25
jonoI have nothing to do with the Friday night party, other than bouncing around on a stage playing bass :-)20:25
jonoPendulum, that is Marianna :-)20:25
Pendulumjono: I know that. But someone else might not20:25
jonoPendulum, right, we can highlight this on uds.ubuntu.com - good feedback20:25
jonoI have some awesome notes, thanks for the feedback so far, folks20:25
Pendulumalso, this hasn't come up yes as far as I know, but has a discussion ever been had about what would happen if someone who was deaf wanted to attend?20:25
jonounfortunately a lot of this stuff is out of my hands as I don't deal with the venue, but I can certainly pass the feedback on and follow up20:25
jonoPendulum, nope, there has been no discussion of that20:25
TheMusoPendulum: Good query, this is made difficult since I think even different English speaking countries have different sign language.20:25
PendulumThey automatically can't attend remotely, but I'm not sure about what could be done in person20:25
hajourif i succeed to go (finances ) i cant cut my own meet20:25
jonoI am not sure how that could work, the environment is heavily dependent on aural discussion20:25
jonoI guess we could get sign language folks in20:25
hajourbecause my left hand id part nothing feel and  almost no power in it20:25
hajouri need help with that kind of things20:25
hajourand i think there are more who have that kind of things20:25
Pendulumwhich is why I want to bring it up now so that someone (even if it's just me) is thinking about it before it becomes an immediate issue20:25
hajourwhat kind of light was that Pendulum ?20:25
macohajour: fairly dark, lots of neons, some flashing20:25
macoTheMuso: yep20:25
hajouro i cant go then to something like that20:25
hajouri have epilepsy20:25
jonoI suspect if we knew that some deaf people were attending we would arrange signers20:25
macoTheMuso: apparently canada uses ASL just like the US, and AUNZSL and BSL are similar to each other, but those two sets are *miles* apart20:25
hajourthere is a basic sign language20:25
jonoPendulum, I think that is one of those "we will react to that scenario if it occurs"20:25
TheMusomaco: Then there is Auslan for Australia.20:25
jonoand accommodate it as best20:25
TheMusoSo far as I know at least.20:25
hajouri discovered it with research20:25
macoTheMuso: thats what i was mashing together with AUNZSL ;-)  Auslan and NZSL are very similar derivatives of BSL20:25
Pendulumanyway, we've made the point about the many different types of sign language, I think now :)20:25
jonoany other suggestions?20:25
jonolet's recap:20:25
jono * making sure food allergies are properly catered for (pun intended) :-)20:25
jono * ensuring accessibility features in the venue are included in the information on the website and handouts.20:25
jono * we need to figure out how to ensure people who are new or shy don't get left out of evening activities.20:25
jono * ensure transportation is accessible.20:25
jono * formalize how people organize evening events at UDS and put this process on uds.ubuntu.com20:25
jono * highlight on uds.ubuntu.com about how people get in touch with Marianna (e.g. for room related queries).20:25
UndiFineDbed height20:25
PendulumUndiFineD: that's a Marianna thing.20:26
JanCan example about accessibility for after hours events: I remember at UDS-near-Brussels the free bus in the evening dropped us off near a metro station that was not accessible for people in wheelchairs so Pendulum had to shuffle down the stairs sitting...20:26
hajouri don't no who maranna is20:26
PendulumJanC: that was after I'd crawled up the stairs onto the bus which didn't have a list :P20:26
macohajour: marianna organises uds20:26
jonoJanC, yeah, I think the transportation element needs a rethink20:26
jonoI think before Marianna has just booked busses20:26
jonobut now we need to be clearer in the requirements20:26
Pendulumjono: I know in the US she can definitely request a buses with a lift. I don't know about Europe20:26
jonoPendulum, yeah, I am not sure ofthe logistics20:26
jonothat is one for her TODO list :-)20:26
Pendulum(tbh, I'm assuming transportation will be less of an issue in Budapest because the hotel is center city)20:26
hajourit depends which country it is Pendulum 20:26
Pendulumjono: feel free to send her my way if I can help at all20:26
hajourfor the bus 20:26
hajourformal east block country s have often not accessible buses20:26
Pendulumso those are all the general informational things that are likely to make people more comfortable at UDS, right?20:26
jonoPendulum, yeah, I think it could be cool if she liaises with you20:26
TheMusoPendulum: Yeah.20:26
Pendulumjoanie: as someone who goes to a lot of conferences, do you have anything to add?20:26
* joanie wonders what the smoking laws are in Hungary.20:26
Pendulum(for those of you who don't know her, joanie is a Gnome-A11y person :) )20:26
joanieI think you've covered the basics.20:26
joaniePersonally I am severely asthmatic20:26
joaniehey all20:27
TheMusojoanie: Hey there.20:27
joaniehey TheMuso :-) 20:28
charlie-tcaHello, joanie 20:28
joanieaside from my personal asthmatic situation20:28
joanieI'd offer one thing which is probably a non-issue in a tech event like UDS20:28
joaniebut the issue is this:20:28
JanCso, bars & restaurants are only voluntarily smoke-free20:28
joanieif there are printed materials for any session or event20:28
joaniethey also need to be made available in electronic format20:28
joanieand ideally with sufficient lead time as to be review(able) before the event20:28
joaniei.e. for persons who are blind or visually impaired20:28
pleia2Pendulum: if event-planners could get a list of considerations for their events it would be awesome (accessible? veggie/vegan options? smoking?)20:28
macopleia2: gluten-free option20:28
joanieand I'll give a +1 to the 'provide ingredients list' suggestion20:28
pleia2and link this checklist on the uds.ubuntu.com for event planning jono is creating20:28
joaniebeing a vegetarian allergic to shrooms ;-)20:28
Pendulumpleia2: I know where to find a couple good ones so I'll send the link out :)20:29
* joanie resumes sitting quietly20:29
hajourmsg free food20:29
UndiFineDMonoSodiumGlutamat that is20:30
jonoso I think we have some good feedback I can take to Marianna20:30
PendulumI agree :)20:30
hajourcan i mail marianna?20:30
Pendulumjono: I'll also send you/her some of the other event planning info I have re: disability that might be useful20:30
hajouri mean how can i contact her20:31
jonoPendulum, cool - feel free to send that to her20:31
jonolet me get her email address20:31
hajouri also not may have natriumvalproaat thats why20:31
hajouryou call it sodium kitchen salt20:32
hajourthank you jono20:32
jonohajour, np20:32
hajourand sorry that i write not fast20:32
jonoPendulum, I will send these notes to Marianna and copy you in as a rep of the team20:32
JanC"sodium valproate" in English20:32
jonohajour, no worries!20:32
Pendulumjono: great :)20:32
jonoawesome, so I guess let's wrap it20:32
Pendulumactually, before we end, can I bring up that I'd love to get some similar things up within the accessibility team to what the UW team has?20:39
joaniePendulum: thanks for telling us (gnome-a11y) about this meeting. I'd like our two teams to work more closely in general. So this was a nice start.20:39
Pendulumjoanie: I try to remember to pull you guys in because I know I've been crappy at attending gnome-a11y things, but I keep wanting to get the two teams to work more together, too :)20:39
jonothanks everyone!20:39
jonotake care :-)20:39
Pendulumfor those who haven't seen, the Ubuntu Women team has http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UDS20:39
joaniePendulum: one more thing before I wander off.... http://git.gnome.org/browse/orca/tree/icons/AUTHORS20:39
joanieso the Orca logo is LGPL20:39
hajourthank you JanC 20:39
joanieversion is not specified20:39
highvoltageugh, just in time to miss it!20:39
charlie-tcaThanks for listening, jono 20:39
Pendulumhighvoltage: we can recap :P20:39
joaniebut Orca the module is LGPL2.1 or later20:39
PendulumI think I'll bring the rest to the list because it's less important and/or is stuff we can do informally :)20:39
jonohighvoltage, key outcomes I noted:20:39
jono * making sure food allergies are properly catered for (pun intended) :-)20:39
jono * ensuring accessibility features in the venue are included in the information on the website and handouts.20:39
jono * we need to figure out how to ensure people who are new or shy don't get left out of evening activities.20:39
jono * ensure transportation is accessible.20:39
meetingologyMeeting ended Tue Feb 22 20:35:47 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)20:39
meetingologyMinutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-02-22-20.00.moin.txt20:39
jono * formalize how people organize evening events at UDS and put this process on uds.ubuntu.com20:39
jono * highlight on uds.ubuntu.com about how people get in touch with Marianna (e.g. for room related queries).20:39
=== joanie is now known as joanie_afk
highvoltagejono: ah, thanks a lot!20:40
czajkowskialoha 21:04
Pendulumhiya czajkowski :)21:04
czajkowskipleia2: you pinged?21:05
Pendulumczajkowski: she mentioned something regarding how you'd organised Ubuntu Women dinners (In talking about how we can get such things more publicized in the future)21:06
czajkowskiahh ok21:07
czajkowskithat was akgraner really re dinners21:07
czajkowskiI did the firing range21:07
czajkowskithe ice skating 21:07
=== m4n1sh_ is now known as m4n1sh
Pendulumyou did the Brussels UW dinner21:09
charlie-tcaUbuntu i386 desktop image screen-reader install; orca started with the live desktop today.21:50
charlie-tcainstall appears hung at 3rd page, Preparing to install Ubuntu...21:50
erkan^amai very netsplit :p21:53
TheMusocharlie-tca: Yeah Evan recently did some work to make that function again.21:55
charlie-tcaTheMuso: Great! thanks. I will try again tomorrow then.21:59
erkan^I haven't still heard about bugs for tactile view on wine, charlie-tca 22:02
Pendulummaco: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheeledtraveler/5468902083/ :)22:03
macoyay :)22:03
Pendulumnow only 36 more photos to put in, 3 of which need to be edited to draw motion lines22:04
Pendulum(I'm putting in A-Z & 0-10)22:04
=== IdleOne_ is now known as IdleOne
charlie-tcaI haven't seen an update on it either, but sometimes it does take a while for the developers to get to them. It is not the only bug they have.22:10
AlanBell[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M[M/sb end22:19
PendulumAlanBell: was that intentional?22:30
JanCit looks like terminal escape codes, so I guess not  ;)22:34
erkan^but thank for help charlie-tca (-:22:40
charlie-tcawish I had better news, you are welcome22:41
erkan^wow nice picture, Pendulum (-:22:43
Pendulumerkan^: thanks :) it's from an app I'm working on (American Sign Language)22:49
erkan^I know ASL little22:50
erkan^Years age I chat with American people on webcam, Pendulum 22:50
Pendulumcool :)22:51
PendulumI used to know more, but I've forgotten a lot22:51
AlanBellPendulum: no, not intentional, sorry22:51
AlanBellI was on the train22:51
Pendulums'ok :)22:51
PendulumAlanBell: just wanted to make sure that wasn't your dying gasp or something :P22:52
erkan^live you in america, Pendulum  ?22:52
Pendulumerkan^: yes22:52
erkan^i use DSL, Pendulum 22:52
AlanBellPendulum: I would hope my last words would be a little more coherent22:52
hajourare you still around Pendulum ?23:33

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