=== ailo_ is now known as help === jjohansen is now known as jj-afk === yofel_ is now known as yofel === starcraftman is now known as starcraft-ntbk === starcraft is now known as starcraftman [15:00] #startmeeting [15:00] Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is cjwatson. [15:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:00] * pitti waves [15:00] \o [15:00] no Keybuk (we should really rearrange the meeting time; what's that blocked on)? [15:00] hello folks [15:00] i'm unexpectedly present [15:01] sabdfl: oh, hello, can you chair then? :) [15:01] but only briefly :-( [15:01] neat [15:01] oh [15:01] weeeeeell [15:01] maybe not, if only briefly [15:01] can chair the first 30 minutes, not sure that's good enough [15:01] cjwatson, I can if it's not convenient for you [15:01] sabdfl: if only briefly, we should cover meeting time change and bug 374900 at the front [15:01] Launchpad bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900 [15:02] sounds good to me [15:02] i don't have much to add to the time change [15:02] if it's good for mdz, it's good for me [15:02] what was the doodle URL again? [15:02] [TOPIC] Meeting times [15:02] New Topic: Meeting times [15:02] http://www.doodle.com/44mg7x3e84qtqahw [15:02] ah, http://www.doodle.com/44mg7x3e84qtqahw [15:02] LINK received: http://www.doodle.com/44mg7x3e84qtqahw [15:03] sorry, I need to fill that in [15:03] if sabdfl can take over chairing, I can do that right now [15:03] sure [15:03] #endmeeting [15:03] Meeting finished at 09:03. [15:03] thanks [15:03] cjwatson: if you can do UTC 1800 on thursday, we can short-circuit it. [15:04] #startmeeting [15:04] Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is sabdfl. [15:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:04] [TOPIC] Meeting times [15:04] New Topic: Meeting times [15:04] right, that seems to be the only time where all of us have no red [15:06] argh, how do I provide a name on that doodle? [15:06] "Your name"? [15:06] oh yes, hidden off to the left :) [15:07] submitted mine. 1800 on Thu is kind of sucky but tolerable. [15:07] I think it's literally the only non-red time. [15:07] ok, proposal: Thurs 8pm UTC [15:07] 8pm is worse for me [15:07] mdz: but you need to change the alternating week? [15:07] sabdfl, that is significantly worse according to the doodle [15:07] sabdfl: 6pm not 8pm. 1800 [15:08] [VOTE] Proposal: Thursday 1800 UTC [15:08] Please vote on: Proposal: Thursday 1800 UTC. [15:08] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [15:08] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [15:08] kees, 1800 UTC is fine for me [15:08] +1 [15:08] +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [15:08] +1 [15:08] +1 [15:08] +1 received from pitti. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [15:08] +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [15:08] +1 [15:08] +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [15:08] (sorry, i was looking at South African times) [15:08] +1 [15:08] +1 received from sabdfl. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [15:08] [/VOTE] [15:08] [ENDVOTE] [15:08] Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5 [15:08] [AGREED] Thursday 1800 UTC [15:08] AGREED received: Thursday 1800 UTC [15:08] someone needs an action to update the calendar etc. [15:09] So this is just until DST starts kicking in, right? [15:09] soren: 1800 UTC. no DST [15:09] last I checked it was pinned to UTC [15:09] it kicks in differently in different places [15:09] sabdfl: Exactly my concern. [15:09] it's marginally less confusing that way [15:09] soren: that's why we moved it to UTC a few months back. [15:09] and the UK is currently talking about moving to CET :-/ [15:10] mdz: who has access to the calendar? [15:10] kees, I think all of us except scott [15:10] yep [15:11] I'll take it then to learn where it is. [15:11] I understand it's less confusing. It's just that this time slot is right next to a bunch of red. Once everyone's clock moves by an hour.. [15:11] But I guess that's a problem for a couple of months from now :) [15:12] [action] kees to update the calendar with the new meeting time [15:12] they can't possibly move to CET. I just concessioned a coconut farm because it was on UTC! [15:12] [action] kees to update the calendar with the new meeting time [15:12] ACTION received: kees to update the calendar with the new meeting time [15:12] cjwatson: we have become good at providing tzdata updates.. :) [15:12] next topic? the bug? [15:13] y [15:13] [TOPIC] Launchpad bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [15:13] New Topic: Launchpad bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [15:13] Launchpad bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900 [15:14] (soren: it's only red for mdz, afaict the time would just move later not earlier, yes?) [15:14] kees: Yes, you're right. [15:15] so as of the last meeting, it seemed like the status was that kees felt there was likely an issue [15:15] "it looks pretty clearly like the encoder package need to be removed" [15:15] based on the bug, year [15:15] er, yeah [15:15] Colin had the ball, but has had higher priority work and hadn't gotten to it yet [15:16] I originally took an action for this, but sunk into a pit of despair; it's one of those where users are clamouring for it, but I saw mails (which I can't find now) from copyright holders of LGPLed code saying they felt it to be an infringement [15:16] the bug really needs a summary update [15:16] and I got stuck in "oh god I don't want to deal with this", for which I apologise [15:17] the bug is full of confusion between redistributability and software-patents [15:17] well, one could argue that this is not a technical issue, but I don't know who we'd give it to [15:17] i can relate! but if we tease out the patent issues, is there a genuine licensing issue? [15:18] if a copyright holder feels there is, then likely yes [15:18] my understanding is that there is a licensing issue for anything GPLed that links to ffmpeg [15:18] I'm not sure about for ffmpeg itself in isolation [15:19] AFAICS there shouldn't be a problem with linking code under that licence with LGPLed code [15:19] the license at the top of tns.c is rather ambiguous [15:20] if you could even call it a license [15:20] in comment 13, james_w says "due to the conflict between the LGPL and this license" [15:20] I can't see the conflict; you can link LGPLed code with practically anything, by design [15:20] unless I'm misunderstandidng [15:21] "The original developer retains [15:21] full right to use the code for his/her own purpose, assign or donate [15:21] the code to a third party and to inhibit third party from using the [15:21] code" [15:21] that last bit about inhibiting third parties from using the code doesn't sound ideal [15:21] it certainly can't go to main/universe with that licence [15:21] right, but it's already in multiverse [15:22] no, but then we haven't heard from the developer, and every indication is that they have no objection to its use in conforming products [15:22] the conflict is attributed to "#gnu" [15:22] (certainly can't> field of endeavour restriction) [15:23] you can understand why they would write something like that, after shallow analysis "we are making this available to help further the standard not fragment it" [15:23] I can understand it but that doesn't mean it meets our guidelines for main/universe :) [15:23] so the claimed issue is that libfaac may be GPL-incompatible? [15:23] not LGPL-incompatible [15:23] cjwatson: agreed [15:23] I don't think that's the *claimed* issue in the bug, but that's the only one I can tease out [15:24] which suggests to me that libfaac should remain in multiverse and we should audit to ensure that nothing under the GPL links to it [15:24] I think the initial "LGPL-incompatible" may be a typo; I don't see any supporting evidence [15:24] ? [15:24] cjwatson, that's my preliminary assessment === duanedesign is now known as evilduanedesign [15:25] cjwatson, also, the copyright file may be wrong [15:25] yes, the copyright file is wrong [15:25] (incomplete) === evilduanedesign is now known as duanedesign [15:25] it says GPL [15:26] but COPYING is the LGPL [15:26] and some files have other licenses as shown in the bug [15:26] I don't know if there is actually any GPL code in it [15:26] so: [15:26] - stays in universe [15:26] - copyright file gets fixed [15:26] *stays in multiverse [15:26] cjwatson, yes, sorry [15:26] and [15:26] - handled as GPL-incompatible [15:27] does that cover it? [15:27] sounds reasonable to me [15:27] I think so [15:29] i don't think we need to vote [15:29] can i document that as agreed? [15:29] let's put it in the bug and see if anything comes back [15:30] since we're not entirely sure that we understood the whole issue [15:30] [ACTION] mdz to update the bug with a proposed handling [15:30] ACTION received: mdz to update the bug with a proposed handling [15:30] [TOPIC] Any other business? [15:30] New Topic: Any other business? [15:30] can someone action the DMB changes? [15:31] sabdfl, there are outstanding actions from the last meeting which were skipped over to get to the meeting time discussion early [15:32] Laney: which ones? [15:32] ok. can I hand over to another chair? [15:32] rather than ending and restarting the meeting, we could trade nicks ;-) [15:32] that would be more confusing [15:32] * cjwatson doesn't want sabdfl's private messages :-P [15:32] but entertaining :-) [15:32] pitti: there was an election, and now are new members that need adding to the team [15:32] [ENDMEETING] [15:32] thanks all [15:32] sabdfl: "#endmeeting" [15:32] #endmeeting [15:32] Meeting finished at 09:32. [15:32] thanks again :-) [15:32] #startmeeting [15:32] Meeting started at 09:32. The chair is cjwatson. [15:32] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:32] I'll take over then [15:33] * kees hopes that mootbot looks at more than just nick [15:33] so yes, there was a DMB election; I'll just dig up the log [15:33] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:16 [15:33] LINK received: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/14/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:16 [15:34] the effect of this is that Iain Lane and Mackenzie Morgan replace Soren Hansen and Colin Watson [15:34] [TOPIC] DMB changes [15:34] New Topic: DMB changes [15:35] if there are no objections, I can make those changes to the LP team [15:35] oh, there are expired members too; Emmet Hikory, Michael Bienia, Stéphane Graber, and Cody Somerville should be reinstated [15:36] I thought their memberships were temporarily extended [15:37] cjwatson, my action above is done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/374900/comments/39 [15:37] Ubuntu bug 374900 in faac (Ubuntu) "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] [15:38] pitti: they were, until the last DMB meeting :) [15:38] mdz: oh, you meant the canonical calendar? what about the fridge? [15:38] kees, it's on the Ubuntu Engineering calendar, with an invitation extended to the fridge calendar (so it's the same event) [15:39] CIVS results are at http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_924ef5b8e9f6d03b [15:39] I see no reason why cjwatson should not go ahead and update LP with those results [15:40] [ACTION] cjwatson to update LP in light of DMB election [15:40] ACTION received: cjwatson to update LP in light of DMB election [15:40] [TOPIC] Action review [15:40] New Topic: Action review [15:40] mdz - Review ubuntu-drivers membership and make sure it includes (only) people who need to manage blueprints [15:40] so the members are: [15:40] Alexander Sack [15:40] Canonical Ubuntu QA Team [15:40] Colin Watson [15:40] David Barth [15:40] David Mandala [15:40] Joshua Hoover [15:40] Kate Stewart [15:40] Mark Shuttleworth [15:40] Pete Graner [15:40] Robbie Williamson [15:40] Sebastien Bacher [15:40] Steve Langasek [15:40] Ubuntu Technical Board [15:40] UDS Organizers [15:40] the only one which looks out of place to me is the QA team [15:41] removing the QA team will have the side effect that they will no longer be able to change the bug reporting guidelines for Ubuntu as a whole [15:41] (though they will continue to be able to update package-specific guidelines) [15:41] mdz: I don't have permissions to change that calendar. "You can: See all event details" [15:41] the bug for that is apparently https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/703002 [15:41] Ubuntu bug 703002 in Launchpad itself "distributions have no +configure-bugtracker link" [Low,Triaged] [15:41] kees, fixed [15:42] the last time I asked bdmurray, he said it would probably be best if we didn't do it until that is fixed [15:42] some of the memberships are redundant and could be cleaned up, e.g. Colin and Mark are in TB [15:43] mdz: "didn't do" -> "keep CQA team"? I agree [15:43] pitti, right [15:43] mdz: I'd rather keep them in explicitly [15:43] in case Colin ever loses his TB hat, he'd still be an ubuntu-driver due to him being a tech lead [15:43] I also generally feel that it should be explicit that some people have those privileges in their own right [15:44] (why doesn't pitti have that hat, incidentally?) [15:44] I'm in uds-organizers, I think [15:44] ah [15:44] as I prepared the karmic and lucid UDS desktop bits [15:45] most engineering managers are members via uds-organizers as well [15:45] anyway I think this action is as done as it can be [15:45] I think so, too; it looks reasonable enough to me, modulo some minor inconsistency/redundancy [15:46] cjwatson, given we already made the other changes and nobody has complained of breakage, I think we can skip the announcement [15:46] ok [15:46] well, skaet had one complaint [15:46] she can't edit milestones in stable releases (any more?) [15:46] but this is blocked on getting that LP bug fixed [15:47] (cjwatson: I've updated the calendar entry now, so that can be marked as "done") [15:47] cjwatson, which releases? [15:47] can't we just make sure the release manager is set appropriately for those series? [15:47] lucid. no, because that would remove the ability of ubuntu-core-dev to target bugs to that release, until such time as that LP bug is fixed. [15:47] kees: thanks [15:48] cjwatson, which LP bug? [15:48] I don't have it to hand; it should be in the records of our discussion in Dallas [15:48] actually the problem with removing the CQA team from ubuntu-drivers is that we wouldn't be able to approve bug nominations for releases [15:48] so that's the same bug [15:49] we identified it in Dallas and raised it through Jono Lange [15:49] bug 451390 I think [15:49] Launchpad bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451390 [15:49] thanks, that's the one [15:49] mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadPermissions has the summary, FYI [15:49] pitti, yeah, i was just looking at that [15:50] series RM = ubuntu-core-dev doesn't sound right, since that excludes skaet [15:50] mdz: it's a workaround for bug 451390 [15:50] Launchpad bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451390 [15:50] essentially [15:50] that series RM setting dates back a long way, and was to ensure that core-dev could target bugs [15:50] mdz: that's what "what we would like to do" changes [15:51] mdz: indeed it's not right [15:51] pitti, can you reference 451390 in 174375? [15:51] once core-dev can target bugs via their upload privileges, we will no longer need that workaround [15:51] until then, we need it [15:51] pitti, oh right [15:51] so 174375 just needs a comment to that effect and then we are back to wait mode [15:51] mdz: will do [15:51] 451390 is not the CQA problem, although it's sort of similar [15:51] pitti, thanks much [15:51] bdmurray: is there a bug for giving CQA that access without requiring them to be in ubuntu-drivers? [15:52] cjwatson, I understood bug 703002 to be that bug, though it is not at all obvious by looking at it [15:52] Launchpad bug 703002 in Launchpad itself "distributions have no +configure-bugtracker link" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703002 [15:52] this is based on the logs from the last meeting where bdmurray pointed to that bug [15:53] cjwatson: no, my thought has been that there would be a release-manager team set as the release-manager and CQA would be part of that team [15:53] 08-02-2011 15:51:46 < bdmurray!~bdmurray@vinyl.outflux.net: its bug 703002 [15:53] 08-02-2011 15:51:47 < kees!~kees@ubuntu/member/keescook: bdmurray: ah, excellent. that was my memory too; do you have the bug # handy? [15:53] mdz: (done) [15:53] mdz: that bug 703002 is something that can't happen now that the owner of Ubuntu was set to the tech board [15:53] Launchpad bug 703002 in Launchpad itself "distributions have no +configure-bugtracker link" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703002 [15:53] bdmurray, gah, so I've confused things further in the bug [15:54] ok, we could add CQA to ubuntu-release, I expect [15:54] once 451390 is fixed so that we can actually use ubuntu-release in that slot [15:54] so that means that 451390 really is the blocker for everything [15:55] I agree - 703002 is just rather inconvenient [15:56] ok, someone who understands what's going on please update the bug. I am obviously hopeless [15:58] done [15:58] let's move on [15:58] Action: pitti to update g-s-t for new ntp pool [15:58] done [15:58] jdstrand's part as well [15:59] the Narwhal has a better watch now [15:59] heh [15:59] gotta have a funny-shaped watch [15:59] [TOPIC] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item) [15:59] New Topic: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item) [15:59] I looked, didn't see anything we haven't already covered [15:59] [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs (standing item) [15:59] New Topic: Check up on community bugs (standing item) [15:59] only the two we've covered [15:59] [TOPIC] AOB [16:00] New Topic: AOB [16:00] * mdz starts dialing into his next meeting [16:00] I've applied the DMB changes to LP now [16:00] https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members [16:00] * cjwatson is freeeeeeeee [16:01] haha [16:01] o/ [16:01] next chair? [16:01] cjwatson: keybuk? [16:01] either me (if this one didn't count), or kees by nick rotation, or Keybuk by frequency [16:02] perhaps Keybuk with the new meeting time [16:02] the last ones rotated between kees, cjwatson, and me, so I'll be fallback if Keybuk can't [16:02] let's ask Keybuk in the minutes [16:02] sounds good [16:02] #endmeeting [16:02] Meeting finished at 10:02. [16:02] o/ [16:02] getting out of the server team's way [16:02] thanks all [16:02] thanks everyone [16:02] hi [16:02] \o [16:02] #startmeeting [16:02] cjwatson: can you approve my DMB ML subscription too? [16:02] Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is kirkland. [16:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:03] o/ [16:03] howdy all [16:03] [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting [16:03] New Topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting [16:03] evening [16:03] Laney: no, I passed the keys for that to persia [16:03] o/ [16:03] * zul to send e-mail to ubuntu-server ML requesting help for testing 10.04.2 ISOs [16:03] o/ [16:03] sorry for the delay, latests natty updates killed my laptop [16:04] hggdh: no worries, just getting started now [16:04] not done...it had to be kind of adhoc [16:04] zul: ? [16:04] zul: okay, no point in carrying though [16:04] zul: as 10.04.2 is out [16:04] zul: unless you want to get a headstart on asking for 10.04.3 testing? :-) [16:04] meh [16:04] lol [16:05] hrm [16:05] looks like RoAkSoAx has not updated the agenda .... [16:05] * kirkland will need to wing it [16:05] [TOPIC] Natty Development [16:05] robbiew: ? [16:05] New Topic: Natty Development [16:06] burn downs look good...bug count is fine [16:06] forge ahead [16:06] ;) [16:06] FF on Thursday right? [16:06] yup [16:06] if you think you need an FFE...talk to skaet [16:06] What features have we added this go 'round? I think we've done a lot in universe [16:07] We are actually looking pretty good on upstream versions we care about i think [16:07] warwarning to the adventurous: current ISO will not install [16:07] The two i was watching was libvirt and multipath-tools [16:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty [16:07] hallyn is cracking them out. [16:07] yup [16:07] * zul is doing a couple of merges today [16:08] * SpamapS may attempt to finish an erlang merge today or tomorrow [16:08] php5/apache/mysql [16:08] zul: want to review/sponsor that for me tomorrow? [16:08] cool [16:08] SpamapS: sure [16:08] anything else related to natty, or FeatureFreeze? [16:09] i have a couple of reviews that people want me to do on the list as well [16:09] Hmm [16:09] Currently daily, is not good. [16:09] cjwatson is on the case AIUI. [16:09] bug 723148 [16:09] Launchpad bug 723148 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Natty server ISO images fail to install" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723148 [16:09] thassim [16:10] for us, i think we can consider it transitional [16:10] yes, should (I hope) be resolved today [16:10] cool [16:10] so moving along ... [16:11] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events [16:11] New Topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events [16:11] repeating last week: [16:11] SCALE9x - Feb 25 - 27, Los Angeles (ClintByrum attending, DustinKirkland presenting) [16:11] UKUUG Spring Conference - 22-24 March, ttx attending, talking OpenStack (and Ubuntu Server). [16:11] anything else new to mention? [16:11] perhaps UDS-O in Budapest? [16:11] I had a talk accepted at the MySQL UC in April.. but thats eons away [16:11] oooh about what? [16:11] "Run Drizzle on Your Narwhal" [16:11] May 9-13 [16:11] Sp4rKy: that's cool [16:12] okay [16:12] < 3 months to figure out O .. which should be the alpha for server-P ;) [16:12] [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh) [16:12] New Topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh) [16:12] hggdh: howdy, sir [16:13] last two weeks have been sort of weird, with kernel SRU tests, and 10.04.2 (also tests) [16:13] so not much on the front [16:13] except that Hudson -- er, Jenkins -- is cranking pretty good [16:13] hggdh: you putting together the test-rig today for euca/powernap thingy? [16:14]