andylockranthat's annoying.  I want to do something I think is quite simple.00:59
andylockranHow can I get wordpress to display a category as a page. aggregating all the posts in that category in the same way the frontpage does it for all the categories?00:59
directhexandylockran: um, it doesn't do that?01:03
directhexandylockran: isn't just visiting category/foo/01:04
directhexandylockran: isn't just adding category/foo/ to the url good enough?01:04
andylockrandirecthex: kinda, but I wanted to change the landing page to a particular category01:05
andylockranthen have menu items across the top for two other categories01:05
andylockrandoesn't seem able to do that without php hack.01:05
=== benjamin_ is now known as Benji2
kaushalIEs4Linux 2 is developed to be used with recent Wine versions (0.9.x). It seems that you are using an old version. It's recommended that you update your wine to the latest version (Go to: winehq.comhttp://winehq.com).05:12
kaushalPlease help.05:12
kaushalHow do i fix this issue ?05:12
Azelphurread error message, follow instructions in error message, profit.05:15
MartijnVdSAzelphur: nah, why would you _read_ error messages?05:58
Azelphurindeed, madness05:58
kaushalMartijnVdS: please suggest further06:27
MartijnVdSkaushal: read the error message: check which version of wine you're using06:27
MartijnVdSkaushal: and if it's supported by ies4linux06:27
MyrttiI didn't even know ies4linux was developed anymore06:33
Myrttiit is06:33
Myrttiafter three years of inactivity06:34
HazRPGhey hey07:36
jpdsho ho07:53
MooDoohello all07:54
HazRPGMooDoo, popey, jpds: Morning guys :)08:02
MooDoo:D :D :D08:03
* MooDoo = daddy again :D08:14
TheOpenSourcerercongrats MooDoo08:16
TheOpenSourcerermorning AlanBell08:16
AlanBellwow MooDoo congrats!!08:16
MooDoothanks all08:16
TheOpenSourcererwhat time are you heading off to town AlanBell08:16
HazRPGWoah guys! How would you like to control technology with your mind! http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_that_reads_your_brainwaves.html08:17
HazRPGMooDoo: congrats dude :)08:17
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: 4pm maybe08:17
TheOpenSourcererCool. Can I collect the projector after lunch?08:17
TheOpenSourcererOK laterz.08:18
=== knighwise is now known as Knightwise
DJonesGood moaning08:26
HazRPGwow, this makes no sense08:27
HazRPGI was just watching a video on youtube, and it played in fullscreen no problem, but most videos just don't08:27
=== knighwise is now known as Knightwise
HazRPGI wonder if its because that video was 1080p, and most others are less than that (only thing I can tell so far that could be affecting it)08:28
Knightwisemorning everyone08:28
HazRPGheh, yeah, just watched another 1080p video and that was fine too - but everything else is weird :S08:29
Knightwiseman , i love the high resolution of stuff on my macbook airs screen08:31
Knightwiseeven though its only 1280 by 800 , when i work in terminantor .. its just crisp and awesome08:31
dwatkinsHi folks :)08:35
dwatkinsWhat's terminantor, Knightwise?08:35
HazRPGdwatkins: hey dude08:35
dwatkinshey HazRPG - how's the video playback situation?08:35
HazRPGdwatkins: still a nightmare08:36
Knightwiseterminator is a terminal application that lets you run multiple command line windows dwatkins08:36
dwatkinsbah, HazRPG08:36
* jpds has got the tshirt, seen the movie.08:36
dwatkinsKnightwise: oh I see - I use GNU Screen at the curses level for that08:36
HazRPGI would it out, it must be a bug in flash somehow - ted.com videos work just fine in fullscreen08:36
HazRPGand also youtube videos that have 1080p work fine in fullscreen08:36
HazRPGits just videos at 720p or below that doesn't seem to stretch out properly - and I really don't understand why!08:37
HazRPGdwatkins: heh yeah I've started using screen recently too :P08:37
dwatkinsI really like GNU Screen, saves me loads of hassle.08:38
Knightwisedwatkins: yep , but terminator is a little more versitile,08:38
Knightwisedo you prefer gnu screen to byobu or is that the same thing dwatkins08:39
HazRPGhmm, I would have thought screen was better - since if you lose connection to your machine your ssh-ing into, you can easily result all work08:39
dwatkinsI'm not familiar with byobu.08:40
AlanBellit is screen, but set up right08:41
dwatkinsah with the bar at the bottom, AlanBell?08:41
dwatkinsI noticed that's configured on Ubuntu with screen, I wrote my own... http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2009/09/27/gnu-screen-status-line-and-other-settings/08:42
Knightwisethe thing is my resolution is not that great when i'm in the commmand line mode08:42
Knightwisewhen im in the gui i have a higher resolution , so i can fit more on my screen with terminator08:43
dwatkinsKnightwise: I have an Eee 901, so I have similar issues with resolution08:43
DJonesAlanBell: What does byobu offer over screen, i've always used screen for irssi & occasional terminal access and not found that there's anything extra I need08:43
Knightwiselets see, ive got centerim , irssi , alpine (i should try mutt) .. now i need a good cli twitter client and i'm good to go08:45
MooDooKnightwise, bitlbee08:46
AlanBellhttp://www.floodgap.com/software/ttytter/ looks interesting08:46
popeykrimzon2: I use twirssi08:47
popeythat should have been to Knightwise08:49
popeyalso bug 723012 :(08:49
lubotu3Launchpad bug 723012 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Xorg segfaults on nouveau" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72301208:49
popeyalso, my bug 674138 is wontfix08:51
lubotu3Launchpad bug 674138 in Unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67413808:51
popeyunless I can find someone willing to make a patch08:51
popeyor I learn vala in a month08:51
jpdspopey: You could do both.08:52
DJonesThe machine I was trying natty on I've had to put back to 10.10, it got to the point where I couldn't log in as a normal user without going through the recovery kernel and then after that it ended up I could only get to a command line system (old nvidia graphics, so I wasn't expecting much)08:53
AlanBellpopey: "patches welcome" is so much better than "no"08:55
popeythey are very much equivalent for a user08:55
popeyMe: My car is broken08:56
popeyGarage: You're welcome to find someone to fix it08:56
popeynet result, broken car08:56
HazRPGI might be wrong, but shouldn't chrome come with flash?08:58
AlanBellGarage: here are the tools and the Haynes manual08:59
popeyit does08:59
popeynet result, broken car, frustrated user08:59
AlanBellHazRPG: chromium doesn't, but you can install it08:59
HazRPGI thought I'd give this another try and see what happens, I uninstalled chrome then uninstalled flash from the menu... then went back and installed chrome straight from a download off google.com/chrome and well lo an behold no flash09:00
HazRPGsurely it should just install with it :S09:00
HazRPGor does the 64bit version not have it...09:00
AlanBellnet result, user with dirty hands ends up knowing more about the car they just fixed09:00
popeyAlanBell: show me the manual :)09:01
popey(the manual that tells me how to diagnose issues with unity)09:02
AlanBellI had a look at vala the other day (had never heard of it before) I think it is a kind of double compiled c# but has nothing to do with mono09:02
AlanBell(not sure the people I discussed it with knew much more than me)09:02
AlanBellanyhow, it isn't as nice as python, but it is comprehensible09:03
popeyany idea where global menu lives?09:03
DJonesHazRPG: Have you tried Chromium-browser from synaptic instead of Chrome from their website09:05
HazRPGDJones: why would I do that? The only reason I'm doing this is because I'm trying to work out the issue with flash - I just found out that flash that comes with chrome is a much newer version than anyone else can get09:06
HazRPGflash for chrome is
HazRPG(that's both win and linux years)09:07
ali1234what's the problem?09:07
HazRPGfor mozilla, firefox and seamonkey on linux the version is
DJonesHazRPG: ok, I was just thinking that because chromium-browser is a default app, maybe it might integrate better09:08
ali1234chrome has a bundled version of flash, at least on windows09:08
ali1234chromium i assume does not, since it's all open source - so it will use the packaged version of flash09:08
HazRPGali1234: yeah, as far as I knew it did on linux too - but I just uninstalled chrome and the flash from the repo - reinstalled chrome and I have no flash,  seems its been using the repo version this whole time09:09
ali1234what's the problem with flash anyway?09:09
HazRPGali1234: some videos don't fullscreen properly09:09
HazRPGI get a half-screen fullscreen effect09:10
HazRPGali1234: sadly yeah09:10
ali1234it's a know issue09:10
ali1234not fixed in any version of flash09:10
HazRPGbut its not all sites that cause it, only youtube videos of 720p or less09:10
HazRPGhow bout 10.3 from the labs?09:11
ali1234not tried it09:11
ali1234but it's been broken since always09:11
ali1234there's a bug about it on the adobe bug tracker09:11
ali1234submitted by popey :)09:11
HazRPGhurray :P09:11
ali1234or possibly not sumbitted by popey, i thought it was09:12
bigcalmHi kids :)09:13
ali1234and so on09:16
ali1234maybe popey did report one of these...09:16
ali1234in any case, twinview and fullscreen is always problematic, even native linux apps can't get it right...09:18
popeyi did report one some time ago09:18
ali1234would probably be more useful to pressure nvidia to support randr properly09:20
kazadegood luck with that ali1234, Nvidia have been promising that for years :/09:21
HazRPGwhat's randr?09:21
ali1234how xorg does multiscreen now09:21
HazRPGalso, nah 10.3 still doesn't work for fullscreens on youtube :/09:21
kazadeResize and Rotate, it's the X extension that changes resolutions09:21
HazRPGkazade: ah cool09:22
kazadeHazRPG, that's why Nvidia has its own control panel for adding monitors, switching res etc.09:22
kazadecan you imagine if Nvidia refused to support Windows' ChangeDisplaySettings function?09:22
ali1234because when nvidia driver was first made, randr was unfinished and unusable, and they never updated their driver to use it since then09:22
ali1234not that that is a good excuse09:23
kazadeali1234, they've had plenty of time and it's hardly rocket science compared to the rest of a gpu driver :)09:23
AlanBellpopey: I think it is here in unity-private/panel https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/unity/ubuntu09:23
AlanBellgord would know the right place09:24
kazadepopey, just looking at your Xorg,log09:24
kazadedo you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf?09:24
gordpopey, AlanBell - global menu is actually a complicated effort that requires more than one place, there is code in unity-panel for displaying it, appmenu and appmenu-gtk/qt get the menus from the programs and unity-panel-service handles the logic behind it09:24
gorddepends on what you want to do with it09:24
kazadepopey, sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old09:25
kazadeit's stll trying to load the nvidia driver, and trying to use it's settings (like NoLogo)09:25
AlanBellgord: well popey wants to implement focus follows mouse, and I want to clone it onto other monitors09:26
kazadepopey, (I'm not saying that will fix it, but it's not helping matters)09:26
gordAlanBell, you had the right place, popey you want appmenu i think, but i don't know a whole lot about that - isn't focus follows mouse a window manager thing?09:27
ali1234focus follows mouse and global meu? seriously?09:27
ali1234how will you get from the focussed window to the menu without the window defocussing and therefore the menu changing to something else?09:27
kazadegord,  will there be an easy way to disable the global menu? (I mean, without uninstalling indicator-appmenu altogether)09:28
mungojerrykazade, i disabled it easily in gnome-classic natty09:28
kazademungojerry, Unity doesn't treat it like an applet09:29
mungojerryyou want to disable it in unity?09:29
* MartijnVdS just disabled unity09:29
MartijnVdSproblem solved!09:29
kazadeThe unity dock and dash are awesome, the global menu is just a silly decision (IMHO)09:30
MartijnVdStoo bad compiz is broken though (snap-while-mobing)09:30
MartijnVdSkazade: the dock is on the left.. I _use_ the left side of my screen already09:30
kazadeI'm looking forward to Elementary OS09:31
kazadethey are focusing on really usable apps (like a simple mail client etc.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwHTcSZjAk09:31
mungojerryelementary would get more users if they offered a script to switch to elementary rather than new install09:32
kazademungojerry, well, the OS isn't done yet :)09:32
ali1234docks :(09:32
kazadeand the packages don't compile on Lucid (Wingpanel doesn't at least)09:32
kazadenot without fiddling..09:32
mungojerryOT: "Former Stereophonics drummer Stuart Cable died after he tried to lose weight on a vodka diet, according to his girlfriend"09:33
HazRPGhas anyone used the nvidia 266.58 or the 265 drivers from their site?09:34
HazRPGI know ubuntu only has up to 26009:34
ali1234hell no09:34
HazRPGali1234: why not?09:34
ali1234the driver i have now works fine09:34
ali1234why would i mess up my system installing unmanaged drivers?09:35
bigcalmTo be on the edge?!09:35
ali1234if i wanted that i would install gentoo09:36
MartijnVdSbigcalm: Why would you want to be on a member of U2?09:36
HazRPGI once read/heard somewhere that you haven't truly used linux if you haven't attempted to break it09:37
MartijnVdSHazRPG: best way to learn how something works is to break it, then put it back together09:37
bigcalmMartijnVdS: maybe influence and tell him to make more music like they used to in the 80s09:37
jpdsHazRPG: Delete /lib/libc.so.6 - and try to use Linux after that.09:37
kazadejpds, I think Thingymebob just tried that ;)09:38
gordkazade, i'm not sure, removing appmenu-gtk and appmenu-qt seems to me to be the best way09:38
kazadegord, it's still a bit sucky, what if I don't want the globel menu, but my gf does? (theoretically, she doesn't like it either :P )09:38
bigcalmkazade: differnet users?09:39
kazadebigcalm, if I have to sudo apt-get remove indicator-appmenu ?09:39
kazadeit's all or nothing09:39
mungojerrykazade, mind you ,it's best not to remove those bits if you're bug testing. i'm sure somebody will come up with a clean solution and put it into ubuntu tweak upon release :)09:39
bigcalmHo hum09:39
gordkazade, oh wait, i forgot about another method. UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=009:39
kazademungojerry, I'm bug testing that non-global menu users don't have bugs ;)09:39
AlanBellUBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 sounds interesting, what does that do?09:40
gordhaving that environment variable set would stop appmenu from exporting menus09:40
jpdskazade: Potentially09:40
HazRPGjpds: hmm, as far as I know doesn't a lot of the system actually require that library?09:40
ali1234mungojerry: this is specifically what worries me about unity - that bug reports are going to be swept under the carpet if you don't use it09:40
kazadeI've had one bug fixed thus far which was triggered by removing the global menu09:41
kazadeI just wish it was an option on the unity plugin, I mean, I'm not alone in not wanting it09:41
AlanBelldo mac users like their global menu?09:41
ali1234mac users like whatever steve tells them to like09:41
mungojerrykazade, certainly - it's the biggest showstopper for unity for me too.09:42
gordAlanBell, they seem to, don't often hear of people complaining09:42
kazadeAlanBell, here's the thing. Global menus are great if you have a smaller desktop (and no FFM). But when you get to a certain resolution, the fitt's law advantages get outweighed by the sheer mouse travel distance and detachment from the window09:42
kazadedual monitors make that worse09:42
=== dipl0 is now known as diplo
ali1234kazade: the worst thing about global menu is if you miss clicking on the menu by 1 pixel, and then you have to reselect the window (which may be on another monitor)09:43
kazadethey don't work great if you have multiple windows open (e.g. they are better applied to fullscreen apps)09:43
AlanBellI have been using unity in 10.10 since release, buttons on the left no problem, I am beginning to understand the unity panel, global menu I am still not a fan of09:43
kazadeand the most irritating thing about the Unity design process is they chose to use the global menu BEFORE looking at the use cases09:44
kazadethe current attitude is "we'll sort something out for dual monitors"09:44
kazadefor a desktop OS that's a bit of a backwards design process09:44
ali1234seems to me that unity is heavily aimed at netbooks - and netbooks are dead now09:44
mungojerryi've also given the left side buttons their longest trial yet. had to switch back to RHS since i kept closing the application instead of minimising it. my brain doesn't manage the LHS well09:44
AlanBellI have a 2048x1152 monitor and a laptop to the right of it, when using apps on the laptop screen the menu is a *long* way from the app09:44
kazadeI'd love it for the global menu to only kick in on fullscreen, but even that would mean having multiple global menus on dual/triple monitor setups09:45
ali1234ooo Qt for android09:45
gordif any of you guys want to add multi-monitor support for the global menu, be my guest :) FF is soon - would love to add it but finding time is hard09:45
kazadegord, I think the issue is that any kind of multi-monitor support on global menu will be just a hacky patch over the fact that they don't really work :)09:46
kazadeI'd be happy if the global menu was disabled if you have above a certain resolution or multiple monitors09:46
kazadelike >= 900px vertical res09:47
gordkazade, i already showed you how to disable it09:47
kazadeyeah that's fine for me, but I'm a programmer...09:47
daubersAnybody good with dealing with stupid tape drives?09:48
ali1234demon DNS has fallen over :(09:51
ali1234can anyone tell me the ip address of gb.archive.ubuntu.com?09:52
Neoti01why not use OpenDNS ?09:52
jpdsali1234: 2a01:450:10:1::1009:52
jpdsNeoti01: Because I know the IPs by heart.09:52
gordali1234, also in case you need it , , google dns :)09:52
gordNeoti01, opendns are slow and redirects and ew09:53
czajkowskiGood morning09:54
ali1234having the repo in /etc/hosts will make installs faster anyway :)09:54
MooDooczajkowski, wheres the aloha! ?10:01
* AlanBell points czajkowski to the scrollback at 08:1410:03
bigcalmpopey: poke10:04
czajkowskiMooDoo: Aloha10:05
czajkowskiMooDoo: congrats10:05
czajkowskiAlanBell: he also tweeted it10:05
MooDooczajkowski, thanks and thanks :)10:05
DJonesMooDoo: Congrats10:06
MooDooDJones, thank you10:06
ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] Owncloud Packaged - Free Trial! Samba Support - At Last - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/439110:07
AlanBellmac people do discuss global menu and multi-monitors http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=35253210:12
czajkowskiMooDoo: so how many will you have now ?10:13
MooDooczajkowski, 2.......jimmy will be 3 when the baby is born10:14
czajkowskiyou know it's a boy already ?10:15
MooDooczajkowski, no.....we don't want to know until he/she comes out10:16
czajkowskiMooDoo: so why jimmy!10:16
AlanBellwake up czajkowski :)10:16
DJonesFor a laptop limited to 512Mb ram & 32Mb nvidia graphics, I'm trying to decide whether to install xubuntu or lubuntu, I'm quite tempted to try lubuntu but would anybody recommend one over the other and for what reason?10:16
MooDooczajkowski, ah sorry i think there has been some confusion.....jimmy is my first child, he will be 3 when the new baby is born10:16
czajkowskiMooDoo: oh right10:17
czajkowskiAlanBell: I am trying!10:17
* AlanBell scps more coffee to czajkowski 10:17
* MooDoo hugs czajkowski :) i still love you10:17
* czajkowski is even on coke not diet coke today10:18
czajkowskitoday is fail10:18
jpdsczajkowski: You said it was a good morning earlier on.10:19
* MooDoo pokes czajkowski suck it up kiddo.....then runs for not showing any respect :)10:19
mungojerrydjones i actually found lubuntu slightly more modern, and better choice of apps10:19
DJonesmungojerry: That was the impression I got looking at the screenshots etc, it looks very polished10:21
mungojerrynote that openoffice isn't default though10:22
mungojerryotherwise good defaults (e.g. chrome, pidgin)10:22
mungojerrydjones, see this list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications10:23
DJonesmungojerry: Thanks, looking at it now10:23
mungojerryi end up running ubuntu on my eee pc 701 usually, although i've tried a million others.10:24
MooDoomorning s-fox10:24
mungojerrylubuntu might make it next time though10:24
s-foxHi MooDoo :)  You okay10:25
MooDoos-fox, oh i'm feeling awesome at the moment :)10:25
s-foxOh? :)10:25
MooDoos-fox, new baby due in sept :)10:25
s-foxOh wow, congrats!10:25
mungojerrywow, this is the luurvve room atm10:26
mungojerrybirths and marriages :P10:26
MooDooeerrr wouldn't advise marriage ;) lol10:26
DJonesMy wife says that to me as well10:32
screen-xmorning all :)10:32
screen-xMooDoo: Marriage rocks :D10:32
MooDooscreen-x, i know i was teasing :)10:33
* screen-x reads up a bit more10:34
screen-xcongratulations MooDoo :)10:34
MooDooscreen-x, cheers :)10:35
AlanBellczajkowski: you or Mark coming to the BCS later?10:39
popeyBigRedS: ?10:44
kazadepopey, did you see my messages about your graphics bug?10:45
popeyyeah, one mo10:45
popeykazade / AlanBell / ali1234 / gord, for clarity, I want to provide a patch which disables global menu if ffm is on10:46
=== denny- is now known as denny
popeybecause that is what mark said would be accepted by that bug report10:46
popeykazade: i do have an xorg.conf but its very basic and has nvidia # out10:46
kazadepopey, just remove it10:46
kazadethere are warnings in the log about it10:46
* Laney likes that spotify works with the sound menu now10:47
popeyboss bought one of them10:47
popeyturns ethernet into wifi10:47
popeyuseful if you have a device that has no wifi, or unsupported wifi10:47
kazadepopey, that would be useful for a sky box..10:48
kazadethey only have ethernet :)10:48
popeykazade: removing xorg.conf made no difference10:48
kazadeok, thought it was worth trying :/10:48
screen-xooh, I'd been looking for a cheap one of those..10:48
DJoneskazade: I was just thinking that about a sky box, Sky offer a wireless adapter for the HD boxes, but I think it was about £6910:48
ali1234you can probably avoid paying for the sky branded one by reflashing the IDs on a generic one...10:50
mungojerrybtw popey i saw your tweet about virgin media packet loss...i had the same issues usually during half term and weeknights. i called virgin helpless desk with proof of packet loss and they said it was my antivirus or firewall. i tried to explain that i had even removed devices attached to my router, but had enabled ping on the router, which was still seeing dropped packets. he said "disable firewall on your windows machine". i said, stop being10:50
mungojerryi used to have virgin cable tv + broadband + phone + mobile...now i am no longer a customer of them10:51
ali1234the problems during weeknights are their aggressive packet shaping10:51
ali1234which they claim they don't do but obviously do10:51
mungojerryunfortunately it caused 30-50% packet loss10:52
MartijnVdSali1234: bufferbloat?10:52
ali1234yes, it will10:52
mungojerryi recorded all my calls with them. unfortunately i failed to record the call where i cancelled the service10:53
ali1234anyway, the correct answer when they ask you to do stupid things like "disable your firewall" is to say "i have"10:53
mungojerrythen they tried threatening me to retrieve a late cancellation fee10:53
screen-xI would have though 20Megabit with 30% packet loss would be better than the 1.5Megabit ADSL I currently have.10:54
mungojerryali1234, i asked him to try pinging me, and he said, sorry i do not have that facility. because he was a call-centre monkey . and wouldn't pass me to manager10:54
ali1234don't confuse them10:54
ali1234just say it's not working and act dumb10:54
ali1234it's the only way10:54
popeyand say that you have done stuff when they tell you to10:55
popey"disable firewall"10:55
popey(wait a while)"10:55
popey"Ok, done that!"10:55
ali1234they can't skip the screens10:55
screen-x<clickty><click> done10:55
mungojerryi did phone every night for 2 weeks trying different methods10:55
kazadepopey, was it the xorg-edgers ppa you added?10:55
mungojerrythey refused to refund the cost of the call because they said it was my problem10:55
screen-xI tried the cold calling anti script the other day, it was much fun :)10:56
screen-xThe guy on the other end was must suprised that I was asking him the questions :)10:56
mungojerryscreen-x , what's that?10:56
ali1234someone needs to make that into a Qt app and start cataloguing the results10:58
mungojerryi had a cold call from one of my utility suppliers the other day, they asked for my full address for seucirty reasons before continuing with the call.10:58
* screen-x is currently scared of posting links after his previous one went wrong..10:58
mungojerryneedless to say the call didn't last long10:58
mungojerryLOL @ screen-x10:58
ali1234i have had where they call you and ask for security details, but they have always given me a number to call back when i refused10:59
ali1234so in your case it probably was a scam10:59
X3Nanyone know if there is going to be an ubuntu varient based on the GNOME 3 stack?10:59
kazadepopey, Looks like this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3167610:59
lubotu3Freedesktop bug 31676 in Driver/nouveau "garbled text after loading nouveau module on EFI boot; X driver thinks there are no connected outputs" [Normal,New]11:00
popeykazade: i have no ppa's11:00
mungojerrywow, moved my redhat mirrors onto my SAN..i can now kickstart a server in 5 minutes :)11:01
kazadepopey, "Added experimental mesa/dri libs for nouveau and restarted" ...11:01
kazadeyou did it from source?11:01
kazadeoh right I see11:01
kazadepopey, might be worth testing xorg-edgers, if it works then at least they know where to start looking for a fix :)11:02
popeysudo apt-get install ligbl1-mesa-dri-experimental11:02
popeythats all I did11:02
kazadeok, I didn't realize Ubuntu had a package like that :)11:03
popeywhich is (I believe) gives you basic opengl support in nouveau?11:04
kazadeyeah sounds plausible - it is probably a kernel mismatch or something..11:04
kazadenouveau DRM lives in the kernel, perhaps the experimental dri drivers haven't been updated to match11:05
kazade(just guessing)11:05
popeydesktop has same packages11:05
popeyand works11:05
kazadeyeah, I dunno :)11:06
mungojerrysometimes unity shows the word "panel" in the top left in the unity panel menu where the window title usually appears..anyone else seen that?11:08
ali1234if you dist-upgrade to natty, do you keep your existing gnome desktop?11:11
LaneyI lost my window manager, but otherwise yeah there is a 'classic' session11:12
ali1234i mean by default...11:12
Laneyi never saw unity11:12
Laneyso probably11:12
davmor2morning all11:13
* czajkowski tickles davmor2 11:13
MooDoodavmor2, good morning kind sir11:14
davmor2MooDoo: You must have me mixed up with someone else :D11:14
MooDoodavmor2, ello me ole slapper ;)11:14
davmor2MooDoo: awlright me owld mukka11:15
X3NDo I still need to get the alternate cd image to get full disk encrption options?11:15
* davmor2 licks czajkowski hands to stop her tickling11:15
screen-xX3N: you could setup an encrypted disk an install into that from the live cd, but it wouldnt boot without some tweaking post install.11:15
MooDoodavmor2, czajkowski you two get a room11:16
screen-xX3N: I do that when installing onto LVM with a live cd.11:16
czajkowskidavmor2: too far!11:17
X3Nhmm, i'll just use an alternate cd image11:17
* czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step 11:17
MooDooczajkowski, can i go too school marm ;)11:17
davmor2czajkowski: well it was that or slapping your hands and I didn't want to hurt you :D11:17
* DJones hands czajkowski some antiseptic hand wash11:18
* AlanBell passes czajkowski a bottle of stop-n-grow11:18
* czajkowski frowns 11:18
MooDooczajkowski, turn that frown upside down :)11:19
czajkowskiI will kick11:19
MooDooczajkowski, behave....11:19
AlanBellhttp://www.expresschemist.co.uk/stop_n_grow_brush-on_liquid.html for those wondering what it is11:19
* davmor2 gives czajkowski some chocolate and apologises 11:20
* AlanBell ponders growing a beard of some kind11:21
DJonesAlanBell: Don't, it'll terrify the chickens11:22
screen-xAlanBell: doit doit11:22
* Knightwise seriously doubts all of you11:24
kazadeAlanBell, name a person on which a beard looked cool...11:24
kazadeAside from Captain Birdseye obviously11:24
* Knightwise thinks of RM stallman and disagrees11:24
AlanBellkazade: design team standards for beards -> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf11:24
AlanBellat the moment it looks more like "hasn't shaved for a week" so I think I need to do something to make it look more intentional11:26
kazadeAlanBell, http://reverendted.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/jono_wolves_rounded.png11:26
kazadeyou can't get more intentional than that ;)11:27
DJoneskazade: How about http://media.social.msn.com/images/blogs/test/41_1747_20100621205611_johnny_depp_pirates.jpg for looking cool with a beard11:27
mungojerrydoes anyone here use checkgmail? looks like it won't work for unity :(11:28
kazadeDJones, fair point, ok, so the rule of thumb is you can pull off a beard if you are Johnny Depp11:28
AlanBellDJones: don't think I am quite ready for plaits in it11:28
* DJones is also thinking about ZZ Top as well11:29
screen-xhttp://www.tomcunliffe.com/ <-- looks good with a tache, in a nuatical way..11:29
AlanBellhttp://www.no-shave-november.com/beardtypes.jpg so many options11:31
X3Nwhy isn't that called movember.com :(11:32
kazadeAlanBell, Super Mario, it's gotta be!11:34
DJonesHmmh, Grow a beard in november, divorce in december11:34
davmor2kazade: santa claus11:34
kazadeDJones, I'm pretty sure my GF would leave me if I grew a beard :p11:35
MartijnVdSkazade: but would you leave her if she grew one?11:35
kazadeeww, hell yeah!11:35
Baikonurid your dad doesn't have a beard, you have two moms11:35
mungojerryanyone gmail users here using a gmail notify program?11:38
MartijnVdSno I just keep a tab open11:39
MartijnVdSgoogle has its own notifications (with chromium) now11:39
dogmatic69that too, but if you pin the tab in chrome you cant see that11:39
mungojerrydogmatic69, are you planning to use unity? if so, how do you expect to get notifications?11:40
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: it has _desktop_ notifications11:40
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: no. like this; http://onepixelahead.com/2010/05/31/html5-notification-example/11:40
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: does not work for me11:40
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: uhm, sorry.. this is the example page: http://www.onepixelahead.com/demos/html5Notifications/html5_notification_test.html11:40
dogmatic69ive known about chromes notices for about a year ;)11:41
popeymungojerry: i use the built in notification in chrome11:41
* mungojerry is firefox user :(11:42
dogmatic69*firefail ;)11:43
MartijnVdSpopey: I want chromium to use platform notifications though :(11:43
mungojerryit's an ugly hack to require chrome browser open all the time11:43
mungojerryand it doesn't use ubuntu notifications11:44
* screen-x requires a browser open all the time anyway11:44
screen-xbut would like chrome to use libnotify :)11:44
mungojerryideally there would be a unity launcher icon that updates with number of emails and sends a notify message11:44
MartijnVdSmungojerry: there's gmail-notifier, that integrates with the messaging menu11:45
MartijnVdSthe indicator, that is11:45
screen-xI just discovered yesterday there is a gmail lab thing that puts the number of unred messages in the favicon11:45
MartijnVdSbut I don't like it11:45
mungojerrywhen 11.04 hits, there's gonna be a lot of users installing apps that don't work anymore :S11:46
davmor2mungojerry: there is a desktop webmail app that plugs into the notifier, or when you open gmail-notify is should open an icon in the launcher that will wave at you when it wants attention11:46
popeyright, got failsafe x working11:46
screen-xMartijnVdS: I used to use that till html5 desktop notificaitons arrive.11:46
* popey tries xorg crack11:52
mungojerrymartijnvds,  do you mean gm-notify? just trying that one...not as good as checkgmail but at least it sort of works in the messaging menu11:57
* popey reboots into xorg crack11:57
mungojerryday off today popey?11:57
popeytwo computers :)11:58
czajkowskimungojerry: popey never sleeps there is no off mode11:59
popeybah, no luck with xorg crack11:59
davmor2mungojerry: there is a package called desktop webmail.12:00
* czajkowski will be looking out for a new light weither long battery netbook in a few months, Gorgamon died :( 12:00
davmor2czajkowski: grab an arm one you know you want too12:00
czajkowskidavmor2: I do, but was told to wait...12:01
mungojerrydavmor2 , that sounds different though:12:01
mungojerry!info desktop webmail12:01
lubotu3'webmail' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable12:01
davmor2mungojerry: it is purely there as an indicator plugin,  you can then access it using gmail notify, web browser, or the indicator opens a browser for you iirc12:02
mungojerrydavmor2, OK thanks, the description sounded a bit different, i'll try that too12:06
kazadepopey, probably worth updating the bug report to say that neither removing xorg.conf or using xorg-edgers fix it12:09
czajkowskihttp://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  Anyone going to the RMS talks ?12:10
czajkowskidirecthex: well ick to you so12:12
mungojerryczajkowski, i think alanbell said he had registered for the london one yesterday12:14
mungojerrythen ensued a discussion about his choice of OS :P12:14
czajkowskimungojerry: he's going to a BCS event tonight12:14
shaunodundee but no dublin/belfast.  tsk tsk tsk.12:15
AlanBellczajkowski: I am going to the RMS thing12:15
DJonesAlanBell: You can compare beards :)12:16
czajkowskishauno: it' being a UK tour :)12:16
czajkowskishauno: so Dublin would definately not be on there12:16
mungojerryi wonder if you ever get hecklers at these events12:16
ali1234you do12:16
mungojerryi wonder if the sessions will be recorded12:17
ali1234it's the same lecture every time12:17
ali1234must be available on ogg somewhere12:17
mungojerrya lot has changed in the last year thoguh12:17
shaunothis UK tour seems to inclue brussels, paris and amsterdam.  the UK has grown a little since I was there last ;)12:17
shaunonot really complaining, just not overly mobile atm, so belfast woulda been handy12:18
mungojerrymaybe julian assange will be there too..then there will be some heckling12:18
czajkowskishauno: on the http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  it lists UK locations which is what I am going by12:18
shaunomeh, I'll keep my mouth shut in future.12:19
czajkowskishauno: no just wondered had you seen elseheere I wass only going by that site. sorry.12:20
mungojerrythanks ali1234, are they wuestios from the audience?12:20
shaunocztab; same page; it mentions belgium & co, and links to the rest of the 'european tour'.  also, belfast /is/ UK ;)12:21
czajkowskishauno: ahh the  IET 'Stallman 2011' tour -12:21
shaunoI wouldn't have said anything if Dundee hadn't been on the list; seems an improbably entry12:21
pr0ph3thi all12:27
brobostigonafternoonings everyone.12:28
brobostigonhi BigRedS12:29
czajkowskishauno: he's kinda peed folks off in ireland the times he's been there.12:30
czajkowskifinding a location and a group to promote it I suspect would be an issue12:30
shaunoI think he's meant to tick people off.  he's the crazy by which we measure the extremsis of the field.12:33
shaunoI really can't type on this keyboard :/12:35
pr0ph3tre all12:40
czajkowski12:45 < Pendulum> hey, can anyone here RT this, I don't have many followers and I'm hoping we get some good feedback http://twitter.com/#!/colona13/status/40020405666189312  :)12:46
czajkowskiCan folks help out please :D12:47
BigRedSI love it when "help with this, click here" doesn't say what 'this' is :)12:47
BigRedSEspecially when it's accessibility people :)12:47
pr0ph3twhat's that geeky convention that sounds like "matlock" actually called?12:48
MartijnVdSpr0ph3t: a bit more context?12:48
PendulumBigRedS: it's about a meeting regarding making UDS more accessible12:49
brobostigonvapourlock ?12:49
pr0ph3tit's about network security etc, and I think they said google was offering $10,000 to whoever managed to hack into his system12:49
pr0ph3tand they were giving away their googleos laptops as well12:49
brobostigonchromium os*12:50
pr0ph3tit's on this video at 1:40, when Unix comes in and talks about madlocks? or something similar12:52
pr0ph3tit's a spoof of one of those mac vs pc videos12:52
ali1234matlock is a tv show watched by old people12:53
pr0ph3tbut with linux, and chromium os12:53
pr0ph3tali1234, so he's talking about TV series12:54
ali1234the joke is he's stuck in the 80s12:54
pr0ph3tbut there's that convention as well, sounds like that12:54
popeyhmm, why does ping sho no packet loss, but mtr does12:56
pr0ph3tI think this year was in Thailand12:57
pr0ph3tor last year12:59
shaunothe pwn2own bounty was cansecwest.  not sure that sounds like matlock tho.13:00
pr0ph3tand it's Pwn2Own where Google is offering $10,000 dollars or more to hack13:00
pr0ph3tshauno, it doesn't at all in fact13:00
mungojerrythis is a weird conversation13:04
mungojerryreminds me of a conversation with my nan13:06
ubuntuuk-planet[Laura Czajkowski] UDS Diversity Accessibility meeting TODAY - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/22/uds-diversity-accessibility-meeting-today/13:07
dogmatic69anyone have a good program for editing text files +- 2mb13:08
shaunomungojerry, indeed.  I think that video was an odd way to start it.  unix was disappointingly un-gandalf-like13:08
dogmatic69gedit is fail13:08
* popey expects someone will say vi13:08
popeyor emacs13:08
popeyor nano13:08
popeythere you go13:08
mungojerrybecause it works :)13:09
mungojerrymtr using traceroute whicih is udp, right?13:11
mungojerrysorry, forget that, my irc window decided to scroll up to an old conversation13:11
popeyI think its a desktop bug13:12
kirrusgvim is small, nice GUI13:12
dogmatic69popey: good point13:12
* dogmatic69 needs to learn nano better13:12
dogmatic69anyhow, the issue with gedit is not the size of the file.13:13
mungojerryshauno, i think that my old boss in that video13:13
dogmatic69its one line that is 248212 chars long13:13
ali1234gedit does not like extremely long lines, it's true13:16
ali1234and the crash is reproducable too13:16
dogmatic69ah ok, so im not alone13:16
Mezw00t :D13:21
MezFinally... we have decent internet  :D13:21
screen-xwhatcha got Mez?13:21
Mez(considering we've been on < 3Mbps before hand :D13:22
mungojerryi wonder what connection the speedtest is on at the other end?13:22
Mez(and 512 up)13:22
mungojerryin theory i have a faster link than what speedtest is telling me, but maybe speedtest upstream end is slower than mine :P13:25
ali1234i doubt it13:25
jpdsmungojerry: Very possible.13:25
BigRedSyeah, it's reasonably plausible, depending upon the relative speeds13:25
ali1234i think it is more likely that they have colocated boxes13:26
ali1234that's probably how they make money13:26
BigRedSyeah, especially at that sort of speeds13:26
ali1234"if you don't buy or box your users will get slow results on our test"13:26
BigRedSOoh, that's where I went to uni13:26
mungojerrybigreds :) which dept13:27
BigRedSI, er, attempted Aero Eng13:27
BigRedSI didn't get very far... :)13:27
mungojerryit's a lovely area :P13:27
BigRedShaha, they were just doing up the campus when I left, about four years ago13:27
BigRedSbut, yeah, the surrounding area isn't wonderful13:28
Mezmungojerry: why, what speed SHOULD you hav?13:28
mungojerry1Gb/s on JANET , not sure about janet's links to rest of net13:29
BigRedSI'd not be surprised if the speedtest server's on a (or multiple) 100mb lines, so you'll max out there anyway13:30
jpdsmungojerry: http://www.ja.net/company/external-connectivity.html13:30
mungojerryi was thinking the same13:30
jpdsMez: See, some of us think 1Gbps is 'decent'. ;)13:30
andylockranMez: they're lying to you13:32
andylockranMassively lying to you.13:32
andylockranHow DARE they.13:32
andylockranManchester Internet.. you're in Birmingham, and it says a distance of <50 miles.13:32
andylockranI wish I could get from Brum to Manchester in 25ms.. that'd cut my communute nicely13:33
Mezandylockran: GeoIP fail I guess..13:36
MezWe're hooked up to Alpha Tower13:36
Mezjpds: when you've been dealing with what we had before for 2 years...13:40
Mezjpds: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168801114.png13:40
MartijnVdSI win13:41
MezMartijnVdS: me - damned EU providers...13:41
MezWish they'd do that in the UK13:42
MartijnVdSMez: this is at work13:42
MartijnVdSMez: I work at that ISP :)13:42
mungojerrymartijnvds, you didn't see my link then :P13:42
MartijnVdSmungojerry: hm.. I'll have that at home by the end of the year13:43
MartijnVdSmungojerry: 100/100 symmetric (fiber)13:43
mungojerryi wonder what the threshold is for turning off disk caching in your browser13:44
MartijnVdSmungojerry: depends on the conneciton the other side has as well13:45
MartijnVdSmungojerry: also, http://www.bufferbloat.net/13:45
davmor2Mez: here's mine and mine's on a go slow at the minute http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168822622.png13:50
danfishMartijnVdS: call that fast? Check my connection out http://www.fishms.org/1168813756.png :P13:51
screen-xdanfish: haha13:51
* MartijnVdS steals danfish's copy of GIMP13:52
danfish..and they took GIMP out of the default install - for shame!13:52
mungojerrydanfish, lol but still slow latency there old chap13:52
danfishmungojerry: that can be changed ;)13:53
mungojerrynegative latency would be interesting to see13:53
MartijnVdSmungojerry: packets arriving before they were sent?13:53
MartijnVdSmungojerry: sounds like a job for.. the TARDIS13:54
danfishmungojerry: pre-cog - google are working on it apparently13:54
mungojerrypre-emptive loading supposed to work on browsers innit?13:54
Apacheukdavmor2: heres mine, I have had better but its not bad http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168827953.png13:54
mungojerrytry selecting a host in africa instead13:56
BigRedShttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1168830409.png I'm told the bottleneck is the nic in my PC, though...13:56
mungojerrywould probably make everyone's browsers go slow13:56
mungojerryin that country13:56
mungojerrybigreds, that is a slow ping time..something's a bit weird13:57
mungojerrylunch over, back 2 work for me13:58
andylockranoff to lunch for me :)13:59
screen-xBigRedS: moar gigglebytes plz14:00
* DJones tickles screen-x to get more gigglebytes14:02
* daubers noms lunch14:04
* danfish cleans up the kids' nommage mess14:05
brobostigonusing gnome-shell ppa, gnome-shell isnt installing on natty, plenty of dependency issues.14:10
X3Nwhich ppa is that?14:10
X3Nhmm might try it in a bit14:13
brobostigonX3N: i would be interested to know what happens, please.14:13
brobostigonX3N: incase there is something i am missing.14:14
* brobostigon gets more coffee14:15
brobostigonafternoonings HazRPG :)14:20
HazRPGbrobostigon: hey dude :)14:21
HazRPGhey all \o14:21
* brobostigon shares his crinkly salt and vineger crisps.14:22
* kirrus provides chocolate muffins14:22
* MooDoo provides the love.......14:23
* brobostigon gets real ale.14:23
MooDoobrobostigon, realale ftw!14:23
screen-xbrobostigon: not sure the sun is over the yard yet..14:23
brobostigonscreen-x: hmm,14:24
brobostigonMooDoo: old hooky, ok?14:24
MooDoobrobostigon, yum14:27
andylockranpeppered scrambled egg on toast :)14:28
HazRPGWoo! Just did my first proper blog post since last year :).14:28
MooDooHazRPG, well done14:28
brobostigonMooDoo: :)14:28
HazRPGa few of you guys are in it ^^14:29
MooDooHazRPG, url?14:29
andylockranhttp://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70 < is that working for anyone14:29
HazRPGIts long...14:29
andylockranI'm getting a Joomla error.14:30
HazRPGandylockran: so far it isn't even loading for me...14:30
DJonesandylockran: This site is temporarily unavailable14:30
dogmatic69not loading for me14:30
andylockranok, no worries - thanks.14:30
DJonesIt also says please notify the system administrator ..... Is that you?14:31
shaunoscreen-x: the sun should cross the yardarm by mid-morning.  it's nearly always acceptable for a sailor to drink :)14:31
HazRPGDJones: I was helping out with some SQL stuff the other day, so I'm guessing so :P14:31
* brobostigon yay's, he is famous now, :)14:31
screen-xshauno: I've never really understood the phrase,  I would have thought it depends on the orientation of the vessel, but I thought it was generally early evening.14:32
HazRPGandylockran: anything we can help you with dude?14:32
HazRPGandylockran: oh wait, it just loaded up... took some time, but its open now!14:33
shaunoscreen-x: the yard-arm is a horizontal beam, usually the largest / tallest one. so it's just the angle of the sun over the horizon14:33
HazRPGor have you just fixed it?14:33
popeyhmm, pbuilder-dist seems to be just kinda sat there at "Writing extended state information"14:33
HazRPGMooDoo: you reading my blog?14:33
shaunothat site works here, but terribly slowly14:35
shauno2011-02-22 14:34:23 http://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=7014:38
shauno2011-02-22 14:36:10 (178 KB/s) - `index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70' saved [92056]14:38
shaunoalmost 2 mins for the response14:38
MooDooHazRPG, yeah in between working lol14:38
HazRPGMooDoo: cool :)14:38
andylockranDJones: nope, not mee14:38
* popey pokes aptitude14:39
davmor2aptitude bites popey for poking it14:42
popeytrying to build a package14:42
popeyaptitude is sat there on Writing extended state information14:42
popeydoing nothing14:42
popeybet its the proxy14:43
MartijnVdSthe poxy proxy14:43
davmor2popey: possibly14:43
popeydoes aptitude read etc/apt/apt.conf.d/proxy14:44
Laneypossibly not inside a chroot14:45
davmor2popey: aptitude might not but I'd of thought that apt that is doing the work would14:45
Laneyset http_proxy and pass -E to sudo14:45
popeyI am using pbuilder-dist14:46
Laneyuses sudo internally14:47
popeybut i dont have anywhere to specify -E14:47
Laneysudo -E pbuilder-dist foo14:47
Laneyi think it warns but shouldn't stop you14:47
popeyit stops you14:48
Laneyalternatively you can pass the environment variable in sudoers using env_keep14:48
* brobostigon has decided his only option is to compile gnome-shell from scratch.14:49
andylockrandon't suppose there's a wordpress plugin to do a whois of a username on freenode, and then print which channels a user is in into their blog..14:50
shaunothat doesn't sound like a job for wp to be honest.  I'd have the local client writing them out every n minutes and leaving the results somewhere php can reach14:53
popeyooo, alternative option14:54
popeyssh to home and do the pbuilder there14:54
shauno(in my case, irssi & apache run on the same host, so I'd probably just glob my logs folder and return any that had mtime in the last n minutes)14:55
* HazRPG wonders what MooDoo thinks so far15:02
Laneyanother alternative is to pbuilder-dist foo login --save-after-login and set the proxy in there15:03
MooDooHazRPG, yeah nice post :)   what vm software are you using?15:03
czajkowskiAlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/22-feb-2011/open-source-system-integrators-forum15:04
TheOpenSourcererty czajkowski i saw Mark's tweets on this yesterday.15:06
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: just all in one place now15:06
HazRPGhmm, I'm not sure if I like some of the crowd that's in the mailing list so far lol15:06
* HazRPG loves his irc friends more15:06
HazRPGMooDoo: VirtualBox, mainly because it has support for 64-bit and works great out of the box.15:07
popeyE: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/Release15:07
HazRPGfor networking I should say*15:07
* popey tickles exobuzz 15:08
czajkowskiHazRPG: which ML ?15:08
HazRPGczajkowski: the ubuntu-uk one15:08
MartijnVdSbetter late than never.. Vodafone-NL starts offering EDGE15:08
czajkowskiHazRPG: it's usually rather polite, whats up ?15:08
screen-xczajkowski: that sounds encouraging15:08
czajkowskiscreen-x: yup :D15:09
exobuzzpopey, temporary glitch ?15:09
HazRPGczajkowski: well yeah, I'm not saying they're bad or anything... its just some are really picky15:09
popeywheee, tamed it15:10
popeyexobuzz: a friend was just asking me in pm about your joggler images15:10
screen-xHazRPG: I like IRC because it doesnt mount up if you go away for a few days..15:10
popeyexobuzz: he's interested in a cut down image, maybe just the basics, and x maybe gdm+gnome too15:10
popeynothing more15:11
HazRPGczajkowski: I essentially got flamed the other day for my posting style, and someone in one of the threads I was reading said something about "Oh no, not more of this rubbish!" in regards to someone using the hands-in-air ascii guy (this dude: \o/)15:11
popeymeh, ignore that15:11
popeyor get a thick skin :)15:11
czajkowskiHazRPG: as popey said ignore it15:11
screen-x\o/ smilies15:11
popeyi didnt see a flame, just liam being grumpy15:11
czajkowskiHazRPG: also just a new ML so it make take some time getting used to how things are done on it, but most of the folks on here are on there also.15:12
* soneill has seen popey use ascii art15:12
popey \o/15:12
popey ( )15:12
popey |'|15:12
screen-xpopey: --> naughty step15:12
soneillsorry, I mean to say I just smirked a little visibly15:12
HazRPGpopey: heh, trust me I do have a good knack of not letting things get me down :)15:13
HazRPGczajkowski: ah, I didn't know the ML was pretty new - I thought it had been around for a while now.15:14
czajkowskiHazRPG: it's not15:14
czajkowskiHazRPG: you're new to it15:14
screen-xHazRPG: your new to it15:14
czajkowskiscreen-x: :)15:14
HazRPGoh heh15:14
exobuzzpopey, he could delete gnome http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce ?15:14
exobuzzand all the other stuff15:15
* HazRPG feels stupid now15:15
exobuzzpopey, is your friend Quinten ? just wondering heh15:15
HazRPGah it'll be fine, I'll get use to the way things are done in no time :)15:15
screen-xHazRPG: :)15:16
ali1234joggler isn't pinetrail right?15:16
HazRPGpopey: yeah I meant grumpy - couldn't think of the word at the time15:16
HazRPGI've been too busy coding that my english gets thrown out of the window temporarily15:18
* screen-x wants a biro was readline support15:18
HazRPGbrobostigon: how's the compiling gnome-shell from scratch working out for ya?15:28
popeyexobuzz: no, dom15:28
dutchieHazRPG: it's fun!15:29
brobostigonHazRPG: its still installing dependencies.15:30
dwatkinsI'm guessing you don't really mean me, popey ;)15:30
HazRPGMooDoo: why the interest in what VM I was using btw?15:31
MooDooHazRPG, just being nosey :)15:33
HazRPGMooDoo: ah :P15:33
HazRPGMooDoo: I'm too scared to completely scrap my current server for now because I use it for so many things, and since my knowledge of ubuntu server isn't to the same level as what I know for Windows Server, it would just put a whole monkey wrench in the whole operation and harmony of things.15:35
exobuzzali1234, "Silverthorne" according to wikipedia15:35
ali1234i think the intel meego tablet ux would be pretty nice on it, but it needs pinetrail15:35
MooDooHazRPG, vmware :)15:35
HazRPGMooDoo: So for now it sits in a nice VM inside the server for testing and for helping migrate it later.15:35
HazRPGI've only ever used VMware at college/uni - and well I've always thought it to be a pain sometimes15:36
screen-xHazRPG: you run a personal windows server? What for?15:37
MooDoopersonal servers ftw!15:37
shaunoaye, but windows?15:38
BigRedSbut personal *windows* ones?15:38
BigRedSThat's a form of masochism, surely? :)15:38
HazRPGscreen-x: managing code, web-server, voip, print/scan server, and a few other things from time to time15:38
MooDooyeah i run windows, for backups and anything that i can't use linux for :)15:38
MooDooand as a practice server for my windows exams :)15:38
screen-xHazRPG: I would find those easier to run on linux, but each to his own ;-)15:39
HazRPGshauno, BigRedS: I hate to say it, but my experience and knowledge was mainly aimed towards Windows Servers and the way it does networking - because its what I was always pushed down my throat from Cisco/Uni/College/etc15:39
MooDooBigRedS, depends if you use windows or not :)15:39
HazRPGheh I was training for Windows exams at one point too - but decided against it in the end15:40
shaunoI haven't used windows at home since it was 16bit, so that just seems otherworldly to me15:41
MooDooHazRPG, better chance of me getting a better job if i have windows server exams, even though i have the skills already15:41
ali1234can't imagine using windows on a server... it's just ... how do you even supposed to get a shell?15:41
directhexwindows sysadminning? :/15:41
HazRPGscreen-x: trust me, I've been wanting to put linux on it for years... but well like I said my knowledge and experience is more aimed towards microsoft stuff... linux has always just been an operating system I've taught myself out of pure interest because I believe in the same sort of things open-source try to bring to the world15:41
MooDooali1234, lol you don't get a shell15:41
directhexali1234, telnet in remotely!15:41
daubersJust reading through the gumpf for a 10GbE switch we just recieved, looks like it's running linux15:41
MooDoowell a dos prompt15:41
HazRPGMooDoo: I know how you feel15:42
directhexdaubers, most expensive switches run one Free os or another15:42
ali1234how can you do anything without a shell?15:42
MooDooali1234, you're not serious right?15:42
screen-xali1234: <click> x alot15:42
MooDoosorry can't read peoples witt over irc :)15:42
lubotu3Do you like to hug alot? - http://bit.ly/aVDMTo15:42
daubersdirecthex: Makes me wonder if I can build a good enough one for less than the £12k this one cost15:43
HazRPGdon't worry guys, I do intend fully to switch over to a linux home server ;)15:44
dauberssorry, missed a point15:44
MooDooHazRPG, i won't :)15:44
directhex1.2k for 10gbe is peanuts15:44
HazRPGlike with anything, there's a learning curve to go through first15:44
HazRPGmy main issue is some hardware just don't work right in linux due to lack of support from the vendors15:44
* HazRPG hates his stupid printer15:44
directhexand Juniper will sell you £12k switches happily15:45
directhexif you get a discount15:45
ali1234so, if you run a windows server and you want to reboot it, you have to pull up terminal services and click on start menu, or what? is that how it really is?15:45
MooDooHazRPG, yes that's right, but most products to already or at least have a work around15:45
MooDooali1234, yup :)15:45
daubersThis is a toshiba15:45
ali1234then i pity windows server admin15:45
HazRPGali1234: I use RDP to control my box, or sometimes VNC - depends where I am...15:45
MooDooali1234, i'm using RDP to my windows box now, using x-chat coz i've broken my ssh vm :)15:45
HazRPGMooDoo: true... but my printer is just hopeless with any workaround15:46
HazRPGits an Epson Stylus DX5050 that my mum bought as a moving in gift - which at the time was great, however linux doesn't seem to like it very much15:47
andylockranargh, I hate it when people in IRC channels get all high and mighty15:48
HazRPGI'm yet to find a way to scan documents in linux over the network15:48
popeyhttp://foxlx.acmesystems.it/?id=158 haz <-15:48
screen-xwe use SANE's networking here, so that the secretaries can share scanners15:49
screen-x(rest of the network isnt so sane :p )15:49
brobostigonHazRPG: finally got to checking code from git.15:49
HazRPGbrobostigon: hurray \o/15:50
HazRPGpopey: hmm, I'll check that out - thanks :)15:50
brobostigonHazRPG: yes, :)15:50
HazRPGpopey: hmm, do I need to get one of those boards to get it working or is it just the tools I need?15:51
screen-xHazRPG: just a sane supported scanner15:51
popeyno idea15:52
popeygoogle ;)15:52
HazRPGI'm sure I've tried doing something similar to this in the past :s15:52
screen-xUPS just sent me an email saying there was a short power outage in 1970, I wish it could either keep time, or remember the ntp server I keep giving it..15:53
HazRPGMooDoo: did you +1 my post :P?15:53
HazRPGscreen-x: either that, or it's really slow at tell you what's up :P15:54
andylockranHazRPG: what's the url?15:54
screen-xheh, we have some old kit here, but not that old...15:54
HazRPGandylockran: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/15:55
czajkowskiwhooo we get to publish the slides from yesterdays cabinet event :D15:58
AlanBellnice :)15:59
brobostigonis it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?15:59
HazRPGwinner :)15:59
andylockranczajkowski: when they coming up?15:59
czajkowskijust getting them now15:59
czajkowskineed to put them on a server!15:59
shaunoI can't believe it's only 4pm.  today needs to get a move on16:01
andylockranczajkowski: there's a typo in the title of the computerworld article :s16:02
andylockranthey've put CAbinet Office16:02
dogmatic69shauno: good call16:02
* brobostigon gets the feeling he will need patience.16:07
czajkowskiandylockran: not us16:21
davmor2brobostigon: No idea sorry16:23
brobostigondavmor2: what for, ?16:25
davmor2<brobostigon> is it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?16:25
brobostigondavmor2: i see, :)16:26
czajkowskiandylockran: site now has link to slides16:28
not-the-infidelhi i have ubuntu installed and was wondering what the recommeded size of the swap space would be i have 230gb hdd -windows 7 installed first this is using 100gb -- ubuntu has 41 gb and 21gbswap 21gb extended have i gone wrong i have been told by a friend that its unnecessary and i only need a few gb is this true?many thanks.a reinstall is no problem16:39
not-the-infidelfew gb swap space16:39
BigRedSnot-the-infidel: depends16:40
BigRedSdo you want to be able to hibernate?16:40
brobostigonin which case you need equal swap to ram.16:41
BigRedSno, swap then needs to be the size of ram + (swap in use when hibernating)16:41
BigRedSperhaps double that, I'm not sure16:41
dwatkinsWin! I got 64-bit Ubuntu to boot on my virtual server16:41
popeyneeds to be amount of ram in use + (swap in use when hibernating)16:42
popeynot size of ram16:42
not-the-infideli have 3gb ram16:42
not-the-infidelso three gb swap16:42
popeyAIUI it hibernates out only used blocks, not all blocks16:42
BigRedSelse, swap needs to be the difference between the memory you hve and the memory you want to use, assuming you want to use more than you have16:42
not-the-infidelits 21gb at the moment16:42
popey21GB swap?16:42
popeysounds like the servers here :)16:42
not-the-infidellol nnnnooooooooooob16:42
popeyMem:  33030808k total, 27800400k used,  5230408k free,   414512k buffers16:43
popeySwap: 33554424k total, 12316828k used, 21237596k free, 12392236k cached16:43
BigRedSpopey: seriously? That sounds like a lot of wrong16:43
popeynope, not wrong16:43
popeyI get this a lot16:43
not-the-infidelso overkill then16:43
dwatkinsI remember hearing that swap should be twice RAM.16:43
popeyit's the right size for the apps on it16:43
popeydwatkins: old advice :)16:44
* popey says the magic word "SAP"16:44
popeySAP _eats_ memory.16:44
BigRedSdwatkins: yeah, that's an old comment that someone at some point decided was actually a guideline16:44
dogmatic69anyone ran this before? "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=64k& sleep 10; kill -INT %1; wait %1"16:44
BigRedSahhh, I've never seen SAP IRL, I'll just sympathise :)16:44
not-the-infidelwhatt would your advice be to use i can reinstall if i need to16:44
BigRedSnot-the-infidel: do you want to be able to hibernate?16:45
not-the-infidelyep i do16:45
BigRedSIn that case, I'd go with swap space about the size of your memory16:45
popeyyou can resize filesystems16:45
not-the-infidelso i can resize swap whilst running ubuntu16:46
brobostigonfrom live cd, with gparted,16:46
not-the-infideli got ubuntu desktop disc16:46
brobostigoninstall gparted onto, and resize with gparted. yes.16:47
not-the-infidelok doin16:47
popeyyou can drop swap whilst the system is running16:48
popeyyou dont need gparted16:48
popeyand then create a new smaller one16:48
screen-xor use a swap file16:48
popeyor that16:48
* dwatkins is impressed with Ubuntu 10.10's installer which proceeds whilst asking user name information16:48
not-the-infideldont give me toooo many options16:48
popeyhave you seen what it says if you leave it and dont fill the name in SWAT ?16:49
popeyer dwatkins16:49
popeysorry SWAT16:49
popey"Ready when you are"16:49
dogmatic69that was pretty cool16:49
* brobostigon goes back under his rock, again.16:49
dwatkinspopey: heh16:50
not-the-infidelok got gparted installed and running16:50
dwatkinspopey: I've been battling with vmware in order to get to this point - seeing the Ubuntu 64-bit CD booting was a great relief :)16:51
czajkowskipopey: you haz mail ;)16:52
screen-xdwatkins: kvm is pretty easy if you're running a linux host16:52
dwatkinsscreen-x: I support vmware in a sense, so am restricted16:52
popeyczajkowski: we're going to visit the other venue tomorrow16:53
shaunodwatkins: I noticed that too dwatkins.  very nifty  (the installer doing something sensible while it waits for input)16:53
czajkowskipopey: cool16:54
not-the-infideli turned off swap and resizing to 6144mb do i need to any free space preceeding or folling  it?16:54
BigRedSnot-the-infidel: nope16:55
dwatkinsshauno: yeah, it makes perfect sense - reminds me of the days when the installer would ask loads of questions you really don't need asking16:55
BigRedSit doesn't really mind where it is16:55
not-the-infidelbecause i have the swap space so large it going to leave the remaing space following it shall i just delete and create a new one16:56
BigRedSnot-the-infidel: depends upon what else is on the disk, normally you'd just resize whatever's in it to fill that space16:57
BigRedSthough if you've no shortage of space, you might as well just leave it until some partition does fill up, and make use of it then16:57
not-the-infidelok thankjs again16:58
screen-xhttp://code.google.com/apis/storage/ <-- anyone tried that?17:00
not-the-infideli now have two 6gb spaces how do i make this swap space again17:02
screen-xnot-the-infidel: 6gb gaps between partitions?17:03
jacobwHmm, does anything actually use the swap space you'd put on a modern machine following the 2*RAM rule?17:06
MartijnVdSnot all of it17:07
MartijnVdSbut maybe suspend-to-disk17:07
jacobwAh, I hadn't thought of that17:07
ali1234hmm, you think you won't need swap?17:08
shauno2*ram was never a rule :/17:08
ali1234that reminds me, i need to report a bug against magemagick17:08
shaunoignoring constants like suspend, you're meant to swap around your actual usage.  swap uses real memory.  it's not just a benign chunk of disk if you go overboard17:09
ali1234"Today, 128M RAM swapless is barely enough to run full spectrum of apps. OpenOffice and Mozilla "lead" the pack, followed by KDE/Gnome etc. "17:11
ali1234i wish i could run that stuff in 128M of ram17:11
exobuzzi have 64kb of ram17:12
shaunoI'm not sure I'd be tempted to start X in 128Mb anymore.  sad state of affairs, but there you go17:14
andylockranI'm contemplating setting up an aws instance for hosting big databases.17:17
BigRedSandylockran: how big? I've heard stories of them just stopping scaling17:19
BigRedSthough I can't remember at what sort of point17:19
BigRedSbut it's not acknowledged by amazon, it just stops growing17:19
andylockranBigRedS: It's 30GB at the moment.17:20
BigRedSandylockran: Ah, these were a fair bit bigger :)17:23
BigRedSand really rather busy17:23
andylockranBigRedS: Have you used AWS much then?17:24
brobostigongtk3's source is massive, :(17:26
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: gtk2 as well17:27
BigRedSandylockran: no, but someone who rants at me occasionally does :)17:27
brobostigonMartijnVdS: not good, ii reckon it will come to about 300MB, intotal. (gtk3)17:27
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: is that just the source, or the source + all revisions (git)17:29
brobostigonMartijnVdS: git.17:29
HazRPGMooDoo: ouch, just re-reading17:31
HazRPGmy post and noticed typos >_<17:31
brobostigonjacobw: yes.17:33
brobostigon185MB in total, i miscalcuation on my part. but still massive.17:36
jacobwYeah, I don't understand how these things balloon17:37
MartijnVdSit's history upon history17:38
MartijnVdSgtk is >10 years old!17:38
brobostigongood point,17:39
HazRPGI thought gtk3 was a rework?17:39
MartijnVdSHazRPG: it's still built on the older work17:39
MartijnVdSHazRPG: also, in the same git repo, so old versions (even though they might have been deleted) still exist somewhere in the repo17:39
HazRPGbrobostigon: 185MB is nothing compared to some of the projects I've downloaded over git in the past17:40
HazRPGI recall ManGOS being well over that at one point17:40
brobostigonHazRPG: its only a small part of gnome-shell, so its going to be massive, i am sure.17:41
HazRPGMartijnVdS: no ManGOS (or mangos as people usually write it)17:41
HazRPGits an open-sourced MMO server application, based originally on the WoW API's17:41
screen-x"mangos" is quite an ambiguous google term ;-)17:42
screen-xbut it does get 2nd hit.17:42
HazRPGscreen-x: http://getmangos.com/17:42
screen-xnow I feel like eating a mango :)17:43
HazRPGI originally ran it for testing at one point for an Addon I was making for WoW17:43
screen-x<-- feels like eating quite frequently17:43
HazRPGplus I also wanted to make an MMO so was reading through the code for general ideas for the inner workings of a client/server of that scale17:44
screen-xhow far did you get?17:44
HazRPGwell mainly got the gist of how things worked... but well I don't have the time at the moment to actually build anything17:44
HazRPGI have an SVN on my home server with some tools, libraries and a template for the actual client/game engine... but that's as much as I did really17:45
TwinkletoesCan anyone tell me, what is hvc0, why it keeps temrinating and respawning, and what I can do about it?17:45
popeyhypervisor doohdah?17:46
popeyis it a xen machine?17:46
screen-xsounds xenish to me17:46
HazRPGsounds like xen to me too17:46
Twinkletoespopey: It shouldn't be, I pay for a "dedicated" server from 1&117:46
MartijnVdSyou have .. a dedicated VM :P17:46
HazRPGyeah I was just about to say that haha17:46
TwinkletoesHmm... well... that's one problem I have to sort out then... is there anything I can do to stop it?  Is it going to cause issues elsewhere?17:47
HazRPGits easier and quicker to deploy VM's - plus reduces maintenance and costs by doing it that way too17:47
andylockranhow to grep multiple values - i.e. to pull out a conversation between two users on IRC...17:48
shaunoTwinkletoes: if you cat /proc/cmdline, does it include console=hvc0  ?17:48
andylockrancat irc.log | grep andylockran & popey :)17:48
screen-xandylockran: egrep 'foo|bah'17:48
andylockranfor example17:48
andylockranscreen-x: ta17:48
MartijnVdSTwinkletoes: They could have given you a single vm on a piece of hardware17:48
MartijnVdSTwinkletoes: but to make later migration to virtual easier, made it a vm17:48
MartijnVdSjust to keep their platform sane17:48
screen-xMartijnVdS: interesting idea17:49
Twinkletoesshauno: No hvc in /etc/cmdline, but it's specified in /etc/securetty and /etc/init/hvc0.conf17:49
HazRPGyeah it does sound like that17:49
gingpopey: is that what the rspca said?17:49
HazRPGit also means that if anything goes wrong, they can get you back up and running faster17:49
TwinkletoesMartijnVdS: That sounds plausible17:49
MartijnVdSit even sounds sane ;)17:49
TwinkletoesMartijnVdS: I suppose then, hvc0 is there own way of getting in if I kill the server by accident17:49
* Twinkletoes notes that hvc dies and respawns every 30 seconds!17:52
HazRPGTwinkletoes: Think about it this way, xen is just the main O/S they put on the system that barely does anything and (generally speaking) only uses very minute amount of resources, they just then assign all the remaining off to your O/S of choice. They'll have full access to the xen O/S via various methods, where-as you get full access to the O/S that's sat inside of it.17:52
MartijnVdSmonitoring by $hosting_company17:52
TwinkletoesHazRPG: Yup - I understand, I'm happy with that, just not the message :)17:53
HazRPGTwinkletoes: what are you noticing exactly?17:53
HazRPGhang on... I missed something *scrolls up*17:54
TwinkletoesHazRPG: daemon.log filling up every 30 seconds with 2 lines... one saying hvc0 has terminated with status 1, and ther other saying it's respwaning17:54
TwinkletoesHazRPG: If it's not going to cause an issue I'll try and remember how to filter them out of the logs17:54
shaunohvc shouldn't be a process.  you're seeing getty complaining it can't attach to hvc and complaining it's respawning too fast?17:55
TwinkletoesHazRPG: "init: hvc0 main process ended, respawning" and " init: hvc0 main process (<pid>) terminated with status 1"17:56
HazRPGtrying to remember what hvc0 actually does :/17:59
screen-xTwinkletoes: do you have a getty running for hvc0?17:59
screen-xTwinkletoes: whats in /proc/cmdline ?18:00
screen-x(I think someone asked that already,but I dont remember seeing the reply)18:00
Twinkletoesscreen-x: hvc0 is specified in /etc/securetty18:00
Twinkletoesscreen-x: cmdline is:   root=/dev/md1 ro console=tty0 console=ttyS0,5760018:00
screen-xTwinkletoes: does hvc0 exist in /dev?18:01
HazRPGhmm, ps is to see the currently running process if I'm not mistaken, how bout running "ps aux | grep hvc0"18:01
Twinkletoesscreen-x: Nowhere in /dev18:01
TwinkletoesHazRPG: ps:  /sbin/getty -8 38400 hvc018:02
HazRPGshauno: what is getty btw?18:04
shaunoI'd probably enquire at 1&1 whether they're using a dom0 for terminal access, just in case you're missing something you need; and then just comment it out of securetty18:04
screen-xTwinkletoes: my xen vm has console=hvc0 in /proc/cmdline, but I'm not sure if you should add that in grub, or change hvc0 to tty0 in /etc18:04
shaunoHazRPG: it attaches a login shell to character devices (serial lines, consoles, etc)18:05
Twinkletoesscreen-x: now I know it's a Xen issue, I thin I should probably get in touch with 1&1 support.  Thanks for people's help18:05
screen-xTwinkletoes: sounds like a plan18:06
HazRPGTwinkletoes: by the sounds of things, it sounds like something isn't doing what it should be, either that or something has been changed somewhere that's playing up in the xen o/s18:06
HazRPGTwinkletoes: also, 1&1 should still be open for calls - give them a quick bell ;)18:07
TwinkletoesHazRPG: Ok - I'll see whta they say, thank you18:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Andy Loughran] Charter for Compassion - http://zrmt.com/article/view/charter-for-compassion-218:07
shaunoeither that or it isn't sitting on xen, but their boilerplate install supports it18:07
* brobostigon shakes his fist @ gtk3.18:09
HazRPGI wonder what 1&1 are like these days, been a long time since I was last with them18:10
shaunoI still use them for shared hosting, but not dedi18:10
screen-xHazRPG: I used to use them for domain registration, but not any more, moved to gandi.net18:10
TwinkletoesHaha - the 1&1 dude didn't know - I don't think he even knew what a hypervisor was18:10
HazRPGheh, that's typical support dudes for ya18:11
TwinkletoesOh well, he suggested I stick an email in.  I'm impatient, but I Can do that :)18:11
HazRPGis he transferring you over to someone who knows?18:11
TwinkletoesHazRPG: Nopes!18:11
screen-xTwinkletoes: http://xkcd.com/806/18:11
HazRPGscreen-x: rofl, I was just about to google for that comic strip xD18:12
TwinkletoesFunny :)18:12
* screen-x tries not to memorise the numbers 18:12
HazRPGheh I don't memorise them, I usually just google for the title (or something that was in it)18:13
* Twinkletoes waits for a new IR Cchannel to open up18:13
MartijnVdSTwinkletoes: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth18:14
* Twinkletoes now feels dumb18:14
AzelphurI just spoke to intel regarding my overheating i7, http://pastebin.com/7uZqDhcP :)18:20
AzelphurI idle at 40-60C, Encoding a DVD with multithreading on takes me to 75C, Encoding 8 DVDs at the same time takes me to 94C18:21
AzelphurReasonable to assume I applied the stock cooler correctly, and need to get some better cooling in there?18:21
andylockranthat's awesome18:22
Azelphuryea, the reply from intel live chat is good :D18:22
andylockranAzelphur: yeah, I'd add some cooling18:22
screen-xAzelphur: ouch, just checked TCase for my i7-860, which is 72, I had it up to 90 the other day :(18:22
screen-xThis is a stock workstation straight from supplier.18:23
screen-x(pre assembled)18:23
popeyAzelphur: nice chat session there18:24
popeyor rather copy/paste from her :D18:24
Azelphurpopey: indeed, I was quite impressed on the good information she had to hand :D18:24
popeyyeah, expert systems ftw (sometimes)18:24
AzelphurI designed the machine with the idea of adding water cooling later and overclocking anyway18:25
Azelphurso I'll just have to get on with it :)18:25
screen-xAzelphur: submerse it in oil ;-)18:25
Azelphurscreen-x: haha, normal water cooling with pipes is better18:26
AzelphurI did get very tempted by the oil route, it is awesome :D18:26
Azelphurindeed, toobs \o/18:26
screen-xI wonder if there are any wacky species of fish that can survive in oil, that would be cool.18:27
screen-xpopey: just like the internets18:27
* popey expects we will see kaushal arrive shortly18:27
czajkowskiright home time18:28
Azelphurscreen-x: hahaha18:28
czajkowskileft over chinese food awaits and I'm starving18:29
popey\o/ home time18:29
popeyoooo chinese food18:29
andylockranscreen-x: get some fish from the gulf18:29
andylockransome of them can survive in oil18:29
czajkowskipopey: aye found a decent one in Aldershot, massive sizes. one dinner does 2 days18:29
popeyhaha, which one?18:29
popeyTELL ME!18:29
* screen-x goes home18:30
czajkowskiI've no idea, I know how to get to it; up te road from the Queen vic  beside a pizza place but not dominos18:30
czajkowskialso is there some law in the UK, there has to be at least one pub in every town called the Queen vic!18:30
czajkowski<---- *poof* Gone18:31
HazRPGczajkowski: I don't think we have a queen vic here...18:38
shaunophew.  home at last.18:46
davmor2czajkowski: everyone want to be peggy mitchell or the boys :D18:49
shaunonah, I think it's older than that18:50
shaunobut then most the towns I've lived in 'exploded' during late industrial / victorian era]18:52
davmor2shauno: I might of been joking honest :D18:55
shaunoI didn't think it was a serious conversation :)18:55
shaunobut it does feel like pubs all use the same name generator, which munges together a list of royalty / aristocracy / animals & plants, and spews forth18:56
shaunoyou're usually guaranteed at least one monarch & a duke of something18:57
popeyThe Cricketers18:58
davmor2popey: where's the Duke of The Cricketers?19:00
HazRPGshauno: wow, liam was quick to change his mind ^^19:06
shaunothis tends to happen when you re-read things a few days later.  I wouldn't worry about it :)19:07
HazRPGall depends on what mood you were in at the time19:08
HazRPGanyone else notice gmail had a UI change recently?19:09
shaunoactually just trying to 'fix' gmail atm :(19:09
HazRPGdoesn't appear to be the same for all my accounts though... so I was wonder if others had noticed it too19:09
HazRPGshauno: anything I can help with?19:09
shaunoI tried to unsubscribe from u-uk so I could resub with a different address19:10
shaunostupidly, I clicked the 'unsubscribe from this list' link gmail puts in the details, thinking it'd take me to the mailman address in the mail headers19:10
shaunoit didn't; it sent an unsubscribe to -request  (from the wrong address.  bah)19:10
shaunoit's apparently done something else in it's bid to be clever, because I'm now not seeing messages sent to the resub'd address19:11
shaunothey're not under the label they used to be; the filter that used to send them there is gone.  there's now no matching label; they're not in Spam or Inbox19:11
HazRPGI would have just changed the e-mail address in mailman rather then doing all that19:12
HazRPGtry "all mail"19:12
shaunothat was mostly the plan, I just discounted how much thought they'd put into their unsub link19:12
HazRPGor "ubuntu-uk" in:"All Mail"19:12
shaunothey don't show up if I search for ubuntu-uk19:12
shaunonot in spam, not in trash, nadda19:13
shaunoif I couldn't see them being forwarded in postfix's logs, I'd doubt they were even being sent at all19:13
HazRPGsorry wrong format19:13
HazRPGubuntu-uk in:all19:13
HazRPGtry that19:13
shaunosame result, shows last mail to the list being the unsub result at 7am19:14
shaunoI know there's been more since then, because I see them on my phone19:14
HazRPGif they're showing up on your phone, what label are they placed in? Or is your phone only showing you the cached stuff?19:15
shaunomy phone doesn't use gmail19:15
shaunoI receive to my server, and forward to gmail from there19:15
shaunoso my clients use imap off my server, but I still have gmail as a huge searchable & work-friendly frontend19:16
HazRPGI'm lost now lol19:18
HazRPGshauno: I understand the whole server grabs mail and forwards thing19:18
HazRPGso I'm guessing your server still has the old mail in there19:19
HazRPGclicking the unsubscribe button has cleared all the mail for your gmail?19:19
HazRPGalong with filters and labels?19:19
shaunothe label's still there.  the filter isn't19:20
shaunoand hasn't been replaced with a new one, that I can see19:21
HazRPGoh so you did the "filter messages from this mailing list" thing19:22
shaunooh, there never was a filter. looks like I just matched list.ubuntu.com, which still stands19:22
shaunojust tried to subscribe my gmail address to see if I could 'unstuck' it, but the confirmation disappears too19:23
HazRPGmine has this... Has the words: list:"ubuntu-uk.lists.ubuntu.com"19:23
shaunoand this is why I like to treat webmail as a convenience instead of a solution :)19:27
dwatkinsshauno: you mean your mail got deleted?19:30
shaunoexisting mail didn't; anything I received since I sent the unsub request appears to19:31
shaunonot sure delete's even the right word.  there's a black hole somewhere19:32
shaunoI have a filter in gmail that copies anything sent specifically to my gmail address, to an external address19:33
shaunowhen I tried to subscribe my gmail address to unstick it, that showed up at the external address (so gmail saw & forwarded it), but I can't find it in the web UI19:33
jacobwhows it going with the mail server shauno19:34
dwatkinsah I see, shauno - there should be archives of the list, at least19:34
shauno(yes, my email is a mess of filters.  trying to copy things to/from gmail without creating loops :)19:34
shaunojacobw: I think I'm about done replacing my old host.  just waiting for some scheduled downtime this weekend before I transfers domains19:35
jacobwcan you point towards some resources on how to set up a mail server? i'm considering setting one up for a small business19:37
shauno1&1 are being buttheads about having a non-US address on the account.  so I'm deserting.  moving my mail is turning out to be the messy side19:37
shaunoas dull as it sounds, I've mostly been going by the ubuntu server guide, and ubuntu wiki19:38
shaunoI had most of this up and running about 10 years ago, which helps, but stuff like SPF and domainkeys is new to me19:39
shaunothe server guide pretty much holds your hand thru getting postfix/dovecot/sasl to play nicely.  opendkim is nicely covered on the wiki, and openspf.org document sender policies nicely19:40
jacobwthat sounds good :) i want to learn all these things to futher my skills in .. cool stuff19:41
shaunomy main headache has been procmail, which is entirely optional.  but most the docs for it are rather dated19:41
shaunoI think as convoluted as email is, it's all well documented.  put the real effort into understanding dns, because email falls apart at the seems without it19:44
jacobwi've heard that DNS causes strange issues in most services19:52
Myrttito kebab or not to kebab, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the tummy to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous hunger, or to take arms against subzero temperatures, and by opposing them end them?19:53
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
jacobweat some fruit/vegetables instead19:54
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
Myrttigood idea, but I've not been at my apartment for over a week now, I've got light and mustard in my fridge and shops are closed19:54
MyrttiFinnish kebabs actually have a lot of salad in them19:54
MartijnVdSMyrtti: because animals won't go into Finland?19:55
Myrttiwe've got plenty of elks and reindeers19:55
KrimZonanimals go into Finland 52 times with a remainder of llama.20:05
MartijnVdSKrimZon: you sound like the people on20:05
shaunosort-of sensible question.  why are the dutch so well represented online?20:08
ali1234don't all the UK<->EU links go through NL?20:08
MartijnVdSali1234: lots of them do]20:09
MartijnVdSali1234: AMS-IX \o/20:09
MartijnVdSshauno: also, we just rock :)20:09
shaunoit seems more cultural.  I wouldn't think that affects ordinary subscribers20:09
shaunobut, eg; you've got what, roughly 50% more population than belgium.  I've never met a .be online20:10
MartijnVdSshauno: NL has always been relatively "rich" as a country, also our first consumer ISP started in '9320:10
MartijnVdSshauno: knightwise is Belgian, he hangs around in here sometimes20:10
MartijnVdSshauno: and FOSDEM is in Belgium20:10
MartijnVdSlots of Belgians there20:10
shaunoheh, I imagine20:10
shaunogenuinely curious why it seems so imbalanced tho20:11
shaunoI wonder if the belgians lean towards more franco-centric communities20:11
MartijnVdSshauno: the "we started in '93" bit might have something to do with it, really20:11
shaunoI'm not sure it's wealth alone.  I know more russians online than belgians20:12
MartijnVdSAlso, English<->Dutch connections have always been strong (we make fun of the Germans, but the eastern part of the Netherlands is actually quite good friends with them ;))20:12
shauno(not sure why I'm picking on belgium, just the only comparable populace that springs to mind)20:12
ali1234i remember belnet.be from early days online...20:12
shaunoI could probably use ireland just as easily.  you guys just seem to bat above your weight :)20:13
MartijnVdSali1234: xs4all.nl = my employer ;)20:13
ali1234i would say belgium is quite well represented online20:13
ali1234yeah, i remember them too20:13
Adriannomi have 3 hds in a raidx nas that will no longer boot.  any ideas how i could recover the data?20:14
Adriannomwould a usb caddy work?20:15
shaunoalternatively, I wonder if it's just a dutch obsession with letting people know they're dutch ;)20:15
MartijnVdSshauno: how do you know if someone is a vegetarian?20:15
MartijnVdSshauno: (don't worry, they'll tell you)20:15
shaunofunny, I hear exactly the same joke about pilots :)20:15
ali1234Adriannom: it's a start. you'll have to look at the disks to see how they are formatted20:17
ali1234usb caddy will definitely "work" but you might need custom software to recover the data20:17
shaunomy only (generalized) hint would be to make liberal use of the 'ro' mount flag.20:18
daubersAdriannom: What kind of raid was it?20:19
Adriannomum... x-raid, apparently20:21
Adriannomtrying to find out right now20:21
popeywhats that?20:22
popeyah netgear readynas?20:22
daubersAdriannom: You might struggle, as you may not be able to piece the RAID together again to get at the data20:23
Adriannompopey, i'm hoping that it won't cost, after all i believe none of the data is damaged20:23
popeywhat is the issue then?20:24
Adriannomthe unit won't boot and i don't have another20:24
popeyborrow one/20:24
ali1234i'll recover your data for half what netgear charge20:24
Adriannomhmm... good suggestion but i don't think i can20:24
Adriannomthanks ali1234 ;)20:25
popeylooks like the readynas will format it ext320:25
Adriannomlooks like software raid, which should make it easier right?20:26
ali1234doesn't make much difference20:26
daubersAdriannom: Try it and see. If it's just ext3 with something pushing files over disks you might be lucky20:26
ali1234just look at the raw disks and figure out if/how it is striped, and then rebuild it20:26
Adriannomthanks a lot guys :)20:27
HazRPGis there an advantage to making a DNS server for my house?20:28
ali1234looks like you have to configure what type of raid you want?20:28
Adriannomali1234, i believe it's x-raid by default20:28
Adriannomwhatever that is20:28
daubersA lot of these things I've looked at seem to be a thing at the sharing level just placing given files on given devices with some parity on another disk20:28
popeythats just their proprietary name for whatever it is20:28
mgdmHazRPG: I had one so I could have internal DNS names for some machines, and a local caching DNS server for when the upstream was being flaky20:28
ali1234"Volume management is automatic. Add a 2nd disk, it becomes a mirror to  the first, providing protection from a disk failure; add a 3rd, the  capacity doubles"20:28
ali1234so you can infer from that what it is doing, i guess20:29
popey"» What file system does ReadyNAS use? Can I read a disk from ReadyNAS on other machines?20:29
popeyThe ReadyNAS uses Linux Ext2/Ext3 file system. A typical Linux distro can mount and access the data from the disks."20:29
Adriannomnow i know where i am with it i'm sure i'll be fine20:30
* daubers wants to build a block level RAID driver as a learning platfor20:30
HazRPGmgdm: cool20:30
mgdmHazRPG: http://mgdm.net/weblog/the-linksys-nslu2-part-one describes my setup20:30
mgdmHazRPG: the dnsmasq bits are what you're interested in20:30
Adriannomdamn the thing for breaking in the first place though ;o20:31
HazRPGmgdm: thanks :)20:34
shaunodaubers: if you need targets, you'd be deified for a free drobo-esque implementation ;)20:35
ikoniamy rage is strong....who will dare top push me20:37
MartijnVdSikonia: what's up?20:38
ikoniait's actually nothing of any significance,20:38
ikoniaI've just took my macbook pro to bits to swap the hard disk, to discover the last two screws are torx T6 (??) and the smallest I have is torx T1020:39
ikoniaand home base that is 1 mile away is closed !20:39
MartijnVdSah, that's annoying20:39
popeyuse a small flat head20:39
ikoniapopey: don't have one that fits good enough20:40
ikoniapopey: tried about 1020:40
ikoniaI feel the gods are mocking me20:40
popeythey have a kit for taking apart video consoles20:40
shaunoat 9pm?20:40
popeyit has the right ones20:40
MartijnVdShave you tried an American screwdriver?20:40
ikoniaas a kick in the teeth homebase where I could get the missing item now is open until 9:00pm tomorrow, but shut's at 8:00 tonight20:40
shaunothat T6 is the only torx I own.  I had similar rawr when I discovered it too20:41
ikoniaI can get one tomorrow, but it means I've left a job half done, have to lock the cat out of the room and can't go through my music recording stuff tonight20:41
ikoniajust annoying20:41
ikoniashauno: I had one from when I had my macbook, but I can't find it20:41
shaunoyou can 'undo' it pretty easily.  the machine will work fine as long as the keyboard cable is hooked up, and that part of the case is grounded to the rest  (assuming it's not unibody)20:42
shaunoeg, you don't need to put it back together to run it.  just wire her up20:43
ikoniashauno: got all the screws laid out for going back in, not going to mess with it20:43
shauno(it will run without the keyboard connected, but the fans will run 100%, which gets annoying)20:43
ali1234I have T-5H thru T-40H right here :)20:43
shaunothat's what I mean.  mine's in a similar position.  the screws are lined up on a bit of sticky tape, and have been for a few weeks now20:43
ikoniawill someone who has a T6 please drive an unreasonable ammount of files to give it to me20:43
ikoniafiles ??? miles20:44
shauno(mine has a dodgy lvds cable.  I pull the case off to abuse it whenever I need stress relief)20:44
ikoniaI'm just swapping the hard disk out20:44
ikoniaI've been looking forward to using it all day20:44
popeyyou can borrow one of mine :)20:48
ikoniagreat, please drive approx 80 miles and give it to me20:49
ikoniapopey: what time shall I expect you ?20:50
MartijnVdSikonia: have you tried asking your neighbors?20:51
ikoniaMartijnVdS: stupid diy bums have nothing but standard stuff20:53
daubersshauno: Unfortnatley, if I did that it would be owned by work :(21:03
shaunoluckily you work with freedom-loving hippies who'd see the community value?21:03
shaunois a shame.  someone needs to come close to drobo, and it'd be handy if it was someone who wanted to :)21:04
daubersHmm.... in this instance probably not21:05
daubersshauno: I'm almost certain that the performance of a drobo-esque system would be pants anyway21:08
ikoniascrews out, my rage is reduced21:22
daubersBah, designing processes around peoples workflow is annying21:23
shaunodesigning anything around humans is a pain.  no-one ever spec'd them properly21:27
shaunoI've worked 5 christmases in a row.  and every one a waste because things didn't break when people are too busy to break them21:28
ikoniaNOoooooooooooooo apple, why do you mock me21:32
popeywassup now?21:33
ikoniathe manual says unhook the two philips screws holding the drive in place, they are torx screws, but even smaller than a T621:33
popeywhich mbp is this!?21:33
ikonia17'' 200921:33
ikoniaif you had told the truth I would be prepared21:34
ikoniawhy are you mocking me apple, why do you lie in your manual21:34
popeyI think he's flipped21:34
ikoniamy mbp is in bits and I am two screws away from done21:35
ikoniaI've probably wrecked it in the process.....this is gutting21:35
ikoniawhy do you lie apple !!!21:36
popeyfwiw the 2010 MBP manual was 100% accurate21:36
popeyHTH HAND21:36
* jacobw wraps a blanket round ikonia21:38
jacobwthere there..21:38
jacobwmsi wind u135dx, what OS?21:38
ikoniathanks for that21:38
* ikonia fumes21:38
daubersSometimes it's useful working in an office where you have every kind of screwdriver known to man at hand21:41
daubersWe even have a magic tool that lets you take molex adapters of various forms apart21:42
daubersMassivley helpful in getting rid of stupid floppy power adapters on some supplies to tidy cables21:42
ikoniais this wasn't an ubuntu channel, my language would be through the roof at this time21:43
mgdmI've occasionally want a tool that could extract molex power connectors from drives of various forms - helpfully they've just obsoleted the flaming thing21:44
daubersmgdm: Sadly not :(21:50
daubersmgdm: Also, that tool is called "Needle nose pliers"21:50
daubersOr in my case "Mike" as he's a lot more patient than me21:50
=== Richard is now known as Guest53304
* bigcalm pokes nickserv21:56
=== Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo
hamitronI just got all excited about a cheap AMD Phenom II X4... to find they've started re-badging Athlon II under that name :/22:54
popeyhi hamitron22:56
popeydid you remove the lava from your mountain thing?22:56
popeyall the fire was gone from inside too :(22:56
popeyyeah, there was flames inside wasnt there?22:57
popeyoh, the new server version22:57
popeyflames go ut22:57
hamitronI feel like sulking about my volcano btw22:57
hamitronsomeone stole 2 buckets of lava22:57
popeyfrom the top?22:57
hamitronI removed that22:57
hamitronfrom my chest22:57
popeydidnt know there was a chest there22:58
hamitronin my home22:58
hamitronbut I need 4 buckets of lava, for 4 volcano22:58
hamitronwas 1 short, now 322:58
hamitronguess I will have to get new armor and go on a rampage22:59
hamitronjourney to the centre of the earth22:59
ikoniaphew, hard disk migration complete22:59
ikoniasloppy job22:59
hamitronI think I may continue the building now23:01
hamitronpopey: I hope the lava went to some good use23:02
hamitronlike, forging loads of iron23:02
popeyheh, i have no idea!23:03
hamitronthere is a hole in my volcano23:03
hamitronso what happened to the fires inside pops?23:13
hamitron!ping popey23:13
hamitronI had loads of fires around the volcano inside23:14
popeyi think they went out with the server upgrade today23:14
popeyapparently wood doesnt burn for ever now23:14
hamitronwill they return?23:14
hamitronah ffs23:14
popeyits a new server thing23:14
hamitronso now my fireplace in the pool is useless23:15
popeyawww :( you need a lava fireplace23:15
popeyoh, forgot about your underground lair23:15
hamitronshame someone stole my buckets of lava...23:15
* hamitron shakes fist23:16
hamitroncould have a pile of logs to light the fire when needed23:17
hamitronat least burning trees won't be an issue now23:20
popeyor "trees" as they're known23:20
popeymaybe that big area on fire will go out23:20
dutchieit has already, partly23:20
dutchiemostly now, probably23:20
hamitronthe volcano kept lighting the trees once they grew big enough23:20
hamitronI actually spent an hour removing the burning trees, so it looked better23:21
hamitronand now there is a patch :/23:21
dutchieyou'd still have had to remove them, they just go out and stay put now23:22
hamitronoh, my burning fires have no wood...23:22
* popey invites hamitron to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)23:24
=== issyl0 is now known as Guest15345
hamitronsuch a long name to type23:25
hamitronis that room to remove the people like me from here? ;)23:26

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