[00:59] <andylockran> that's annoying.  I want to do something I think is quite simple.
[00:59] <andylockran> How can I get wordpress to display a category as a page. aggregating all the posts in that category in the same way the frontpage does it for all the categories?
[01:03] <directhex> andylockran: um, it doesn't do that?
[01:04] <directhex> andylockran: isn't just visiting category/foo/
[01:04] <directhex> bah
[01:04] <directhex> andylockran: isn't just adding category/foo/ to the url good enough?
[01:05] <andylockran> directhex: kinda, but I wanted to change the landing page to a particular category
[01:05] <andylockran> then have menu items across the top for two other categories
[01:05] <andylockran> doesn't seem able to do that without php hack.
[05:11] <kaushal> hi
[05:12] <kaushal> IEs4Linux 2 is developed to be used with recent Wine versions (0.9.x). It seems that you are using an old version. It's recommended that you update your wine to the latest version (Go to: winehq.comhttp://winehq.com).
[05:12] <kaushal> Please help.
[05:12] <kaushal> How do i fix this issue ?
[05:15] <Azelphur> read error message, follow instructions in error message, profit.
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nah, why would you _read_ error messages?
[05:58] <Azelphur> indeed, madness
[06:27] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: please suggest further
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: read the error message: check which version of wine you're using
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: and if it's supported by ies4linux
[06:33] <Myrtti> I didn't even know ies4linux was developed anymore
[06:33] <Myrtti> oh
[06:33] <Myrtti> it is
[06:34] <Myrtti> after three years of inactivity
[07:36] <HazRPG> hey hey
[07:52] <HazRPG> hey
[07:53] <jpds> ho ho
[07:53] <jpds> ho
[07:54] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:57] <popey> lo
[08:02] <HazRPG> MooDoo, popey, jpds: Morning guys :)
[08:03] <MooDoo> :D :D :D
[08:14]  * MooDoo = daddy again :D
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> congrats MooDoo
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
[08:16] <AlanBell> wow MooDoo congrats!!
[08:16] <MooDoo> :)
[08:16] <MooDoo> thanks all
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> what time are you heading off to town AlanBell
[08:17] <HazRPG> Woah guys! How would you like to control technology with your mind! http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_that_reads_your_brainwaves.html
[08:17] <HazRPG> MooDoo: congrats dude :)
[08:17] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: 4pm maybe
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool. Can I collect the projector after lunch?
[08:17] <AlanBell> sure
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK laterz.
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty
[08:26] <DJones> Good moaning
[08:27] <HazRPG> wow, this makes no sense
[08:27] <HazRPG> I was just watching a video on youtube, and it played in fullscreen no problem, but most videos just don't
[08:28] <HazRPG> I wonder if its because that video was 1080p, and most others are less than that (only thing I can tell so far that could be affecting it)
[08:28] <Knightwise> morning everyone
[08:29] <HazRPG> heh, yeah, just watched another 1080p video and that was fine too - but everything else is weird :S
[08:31] <Knightwise> man , i love the high resolution of stuff on my macbook airs screen
[08:31] <Knightwise> even though its only 1280 by 800 , when i work in terminantor .. its just crisp and awesome
[08:35] <dwatkins> Hi folks :)
[08:35] <dwatkins> What's terminantor, Knightwise?
[08:35] <HazRPG> dwatkins: hey dude
[08:35] <dwatkins> hey HazRPG - how's the video playback situation?
[08:36] <HazRPG> dwatkins: still a nightmare
[08:36] <Knightwise> terminator is a terminal application that lets you run multiple command line windows dwatkins
[08:36] <dwatkins> bah, HazRPG
[08:36]  * jpds has got the tshirt, seen the movie.
[08:36] <dwatkins> Knightwise: oh I see - I use GNU Screen at the curses level for that
[08:36] <HazRPG> I would it out, it must be a bug in flash somehow - ted.com videos work just fine in fullscreen
[08:36] <HazRPG> and also youtube videos that have 1080p work fine in fullscreen
[08:37] <HazRPG> its just videos at 720p or below that doesn't seem to stretch out properly - and I really don't understand why!
[08:37] <HazRPG> dwatkins: heh yeah I've started using screen recently too :P
[08:38] <dwatkins> I really like GNU Screen, saves me loads of hassle.
[08:38] <Knightwise> dwatkins: yep , but terminator is a little more versitile,
[08:39] <Knightwise> do you prefer gnu screen to byobu or is that the same thing dwatkins
[08:39] <HazRPG> hmm, I would have thought screen was better - since if you lose connection to your machine your ssh-ing into, you can easily result all work
[08:40] <dwatkins> I'm not familiar with byobu.
[08:41] <AlanBell> it is screen, but set up right
[08:41] <dwatkins> ah with the bar at the bottom, AlanBell?
[08:42] <AlanBell> yup
[08:42] <dwatkins> I noticed that's configured on Ubuntu with screen, I wrote my own... http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2009/09/27/gnu-screen-status-line-and-other-settings/
[08:42] <Knightwise> the thing is my resolution is not that great when i'm in the commmand line mode
[08:43] <Knightwise> when im in the gui i have a higher resolution , so i can fit more on my screen with terminator
[08:43] <dwatkins> Knightwise: I have an Eee 901, so I have similar issues with resolution
[08:43] <DJones> AlanBell: What does byobu offer over screen, i've always used screen for irssi & occasional terminal access and not found that there's anything extra I need
[08:45] <AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/en/man1/byobu.1.html
[08:45] <Knightwise> lets see, ive got centerim , irssi , alpine (i should try mutt) .. now i need a good cli twitter client and i'm good to go
[08:46] <MooDoo> Knightwise, bitlbee
[08:46] <AlanBell> http://www.floodgap.com/software/ttytter/ looks interesting
[08:47] <MooDoo> http://wiki.bitlbee.org/HowtoTwitter
[08:47] <popey> krimzon2: I use twirssi
[08:49] <popey> oops
[08:49] <popey> that should have been to Knightwise
[08:49] <popey> also bug 723012 :(
[08:51] <popey> also, my bug 674138 is wontfix
[08:51] <popey> unless I can find someone willing to make a patch
[08:51] <popey> or I learn vala in a month
[08:52] <jpds> popey: You could do both.
[08:53] <DJones> The machine I was trying natty on I've had to put back to 10.10, it got to the point where I couldn't log in as a normal user without going through the recovery kernel and then after that it ended up I could only get to a command line system (old nvidia graphics, so I wasn't expecting much)
[08:55] <AlanBell> popey: "patches welcome" is so much better than "no"
[08:55] <popey> they are very much equivalent for a user
[08:56] <popey> Me: My car is broken
[08:56] <popey> Garage: You're welcome to find someone to fix it
[08:56] <popey> net result, broken car
[08:58] <HazRPG> I might be wrong, but shouldn't chrome come with flash?
[08:59] <AlanBell> Garage: here are the tools and the Haynes manual
[08:59] <popey> it does
[08:59] <popey> net result, broken car, frustrated user
[08:59] <AlanBell> HazRPG: chromium doesn't, but you can install it
[09:00] <HazRPG> I thought I'd give this another try and see what happens, I uninstalled chrome then uninstalled flash from the menu... then went back and installed chrome straight from a download off google.com/chrome and well lo an behold no flash
[09:00] <HazRPG> surely it should just install with it :S
[09:00] <HazRPG> or does the 64bit version not have it...
[09:00] <AlanBell> net result, user with dirty hands ends up knowing more about the car they just fixed
[09:01] <popey> :)
[09:01] <popey> AlanBell: show me the manual :)
[09:02] <popey> (the manual that tells me how to diagnose issues with unity)
[09:02] <JamesTait> Dumela!
[09:02] <AlanBell> I had a look at vala the other day (had never heard of it before) I think it is a kind of double compiled c# but has nothing to do with mono
[09:02] <AlanBell> (not sure the people I discussed it with knew much more than me)
[09:03] <popey> :)
[09:03] <AlanBell> anyhow, it isn't as nice as python, but it is comprehensible
[09:03] <popey> any idea where global menu lives?
[09:05] <DJones> HazRPG: Have you tried Chromium-browser from synaptic instead of Chrome from their website
[09:06] <HazRPG> DJones: why would I do that? The only reason I'm doing this is because I'm trying to work out the issue with flash - I just found out that flash that comes with chrome is a much newer version than anyone else can get
[09:07] <HazRPG> flash for chrome is 10.2.154.12
[09:07] <HazRPG> (that's both win and linux years)
[09:07] <HazRPG> users*
[09:07] <ali1234> what's the problem?
[09:07] <HazRPG> for mozilla, firefox and seamonkey on linux the version is 10.2.152.27
[09:08] <DJones> HazRPG: ok, I was just thinking that because chromium-browser is a default app, maybe it might integrate better
[09:08] <ali1234> chrome has a bundled version of flash, at least on windows
[09:08] <ali1234> chromium i assume does not, since it's all open source - so it will use the packaged version of flash
[09:09] <HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, as far as I knew it did on linux too - but I just uninstalled chrome and the flash from the repo - reinstalled chrome and I have no flash,  seems its been using the repo version this whole time
[09:09] <ali1234> probably
[09:09] <ali1234> what's the problem with flash anyway?
[09:09] <HazRPG> ali1234: some videos don't fullscreen properly
[09:10] <ali1234> twinview?
[09:10] <HazRPG> I get a half-screen fullscreen effect
[09:10] <HazRPG> ali1234: sadly yeah
[09:10] <ali1234> it's a know issue
[09:10] <ali1234> not fixed in any version of flash
[09:10] <HazRPG> but its not all sites that cause it, only youtube videos of 720p or less
[09:10] <ali1234> yes
[09:11] <HazRPG> how bout 10.3 from the labs?
[09:11] <ali1234> not tried it
[09:11] <ali1234> but it's been broken since always
[09:11] <ali1234> there's a bug about it on the adobe bug tracker
[09:11] <ali1234> submitted by popey :)
[09:11] <HazRPG> hurray :P
[09:12] <ali1234> or possibly not sumbitted by popey, i thought it was
[09:13] <ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-5633
[09:13] <bigcalm> Hi kids :)
[09:13] <ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1949
[09:15] <ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1566
[09:16] <ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-562
[09:16] <ali1234> and so on
[09:16] <ali1234> maybe popey did report one of these...
[09:18] <ali1234> in any case, twinview and fullscreen is always problematic, even native linux apps can't get it right...
[09:18] <popey> i did report one some time ago
[09:20] <ali1234> would probably be more useful to pressure nvidia to support randr properly
[09:20] <kazade> o/
[09:21] <kazade> good luck with that ali1234, Nvidia have been promising that for years :/
[09:21] <HazRPG> what's randr?
[09:21] <ali1234> how xorg does multiscreen now
[09:21] <HazRPG> also, nah 10.3 still doesn't work for fullscreens on youtube :/
[09:21] <kazade> Resize and Rotate, it's the X extension that changes resolutions
[09:22] <HazRPG> kazade: ah cool
[09:22] <kazade> HazRPG, that's why Nvidia has its own control panel for adding monitors, switching res etc.
[09:22] <kazade> can you imagine if Nvidia refused to support Windows' ChangeDisplaySettings function?
[09:22] <ali1234> because when nvidia driver was first made, randr was unfinished and unusable, and they never updated their driver to use it since then
[09:22] <HazRPG> heh
[09:23] <ali1234> not that that is a good excuse
[09:23] <kazade> ali1234, they've had plenty of time and it's hardly rocket science compared to the rest of a gpu driver :)
[09:23] <AlanBell> popey: I think it is here in unity-private/panel https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/unity/ubuntu
[09:24] <AlanBell> gord would know the right place
[09:24] <kazade> popey, just looking at your Xorg,log
[09:24] <kazade> do you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[09:24] <gord> popey, AlanBell - global menu is actually a complicated effort that requires more than one place, there is code in unity-panel for displaying it, appmenu and appmenu-gtk/qt get the menus from the programs and unity-panel-service handles the logic behind it
[09:24] <gord> depends on what you want to do with it
[09:25] <kazade> popey, sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old
[09:25] <kazade> it's stll trying to load the nvidia driver, and trying to use it's settings (like NoLogo)
[09:26] <AlanBell> gord: well popey wants to implement focus follows mouse, and I want to clone it onto other monitors
[09:26] <kazade> popey, (I'm not saying that will fix it, but it's not helping matters)
[09:27] <gord> AlanBell, you had the right place, popey you want appmenu i think, but i don't know a whole lot about that - isn't focus follows mouse a window manager thing?
[09:27] <ali1234> focus follows mouse and global meu? seriously?
[09:27] <ali1234> how will you get from the focussed window to the menu without the window defocussing and therefore the menu changing to something else?
[09:28] <kazade> gord,  will there be an easy way to disable the global menu? (I mean, without uninstalling indicator-appmenu altogether)
[09:28] <mungojerry> kazade, i disabled it easily in gnome-classic natty
[09:29] <kazade> mungojerry, Unity doesn't treat it like an applet
[09:29] <mungojerry> you want to disable it in unity?
[09:29] <kazade> yep
[09:29]  * MartijnVdS just disabled unity
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> problem solved!
[09:30] <kazade> The unity dock and dash are awesome, the global menu is just a silly decision (IMHO)
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> too bad compiz is broken though (snap-while-mobing)
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> kazade: the dock is on the left.. I _use_ the left side of my screen already
[09:31] <kazade> I'm looking forward to Elementary OS
[09:31] <kazade> they are focusing on really usable apps (like a simple mail client etc.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwHTcSZjAk
[09:32] <mungojerry> elementary would get more users if they offered a script to switch to elementary rather than new install
[09:32] <kazade> mungojerry, well, the OS isn't done yet :)
[09:32] <ali1234> docks :(
[09:32] <kazade> and the packages don't compile on Lucid (Wingpanel doesn't at least)
[09:32] <kazade> not without fiddling..
[09:33] <mungojerry> OT: "Former Stereophonics drummer Stuart Cable died after he tried to lose weight on a vodka diet, according to his girlfriend"
[09:33] <mungojerry> hmm
[09:34] <HazRPG> has anyone used the nvidia 266.58 or the 265 drivers from their site?
[09:34] <HazRPG> I know ubuntu only has up to 260
[09:34] <ali1234> hell no
[09:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: why not?
[09:34] <ali1234> the driver i have now works fine
[09:35] <ali1234> why would i mess up my system installing unmanaged drivers?
[09:35] <bigcalm> To be on the edge?!
[09:36] <ali1234> if i wanted that i would install gentoo
[09:36] <bigcalm> ;)
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Why would you want to be on a member of U2?
[09:37] <HazRPG> I once read/heard somewhere that you haven't truly used linux if you haven't attempted to break it
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: best way to learn how something works is to break it, then put it back together
[09:37] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: maybe influence and tell him to make more music like they used to in the 80s
[09:37] <jpds> HazRPG: Delete /lib/libc.so.6 - and try to use Linux after that.
[09:38] <kazade> jpds, I think Thingymebob just tried that ;)
[09:38] <gord> kazade, i'm not sure, removing appmenu-gtk and appmenu-qt seems to me to be the best way
[09:38] <kazade> gord, it's still a bit sucky, what if I don't want the globel menu, but my gf does? (theoretically, she doesn't like it either :P )
[09:39] <bigcalm> kazade: differnet users?
[09:39] <kazade> bigcalm, if I have to sudo apt-get remove indicator-appmenu ?
[09:39] <kazade> it's all or nothing
[09:39] <mungojerry> kazade, mind you ,it's best not to remove those bits if you're bug testing. i'm sure somebody will come up with a clean solution and put it into ubuntu tweak upon release :)
[09:39] <bigcalm> Ho hum
[09:39] <gord> kazade, oh wait, i forgot about another method. UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0
[09:39] <kazade> mungojerry, I'm bug testing that non-global menu users don't have bugs ;)
[09:40] <AlanBell> UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 sounds interesting, what does that do?
[09:40] <gord> having that environment variable set would stop appmenu from exporting menus
[09:40] <jpds> kazade: Potentially
[09:40] <HazRPG> jpds: hmm, as far as I know doesn't a lot of the system actually require that library?
[09:40] <ali1234> mungojerry: this is specifically what worries me about unity - that bug reports are going to be swept under the carpet if you don't use it
[09:41] <kazade> I've had one bug fixed thus far which was triggered by removing the global menu
[09:41] <kazade> I just wish it was an option on the unity plugin, I mean, I'm not alone in not wanting it
[09:41] <AlanBell> do mac users like their global menu?
[09:41] <ali1234> mac users like whatever steve tells them to like
[09:42] <mungojerry> kazade, certainly - it's the biggest showstopper for unity for me too.
[09:42] <gord> AlanBell, they seem to, don't often hear of people complaining
[09:42] <kazade> AlanBell, here's the thing. Global menus are great if you have a smaller desktop (and no FFM). But when you get to a certain resolution, the fitt's law advantages get outweighed by the sheer mouse travel distance and detachment from the window
[09:42] <kazade> dual monitors make that worse
[09:43] <ali1234> kazade: the worst thing about global menu is if you miss clicking on the menu by 1 pixel, and then you have to reselect the window (which may be on another monitor)
[09:43] <kazade> they don't work great if you have multiple windows open (e.g. they are better applied to fullscreen apps)
[09:43] <AlanBell> I have been using unity in 10.10 since release, buttons on the left no problem, I am beginning to understand the unity panel, global menu I am still not a fan of
[09:44] <kazade> and the most irritating thing about the Unity design process is they chose to use the global menu BEFORE looking at the use cases
[09:44] <kazade> the current attitude is "we'll sort something out for dual monitors"
[09:44] <kazade> for a desktop OS that's a bit of a backwards design process
[09:44] <ali1234> seems to me that unity is heavily aimed at netbooks - and netbooks are dead now
[09:44] <mungojerry> i've also given the left side buttons their longest trial yet. had to switch back to RHS since i kept closing the application instead of minimising it. my brain doesn't manage the LHS well
[09:44] <AlanBell> I have a 2048x1152 monitor and a laptop to the right of it, when using apps on the laptop screen the menu is a *long* way from the app
[09:45] <kazade> I'd love it for the global menu to only kick in on fullscreen, but even that would mean having multiple global menus on dual/triple monitor setups
[09:45] <ali1234> ooo Qt for android
[09:45] <gord> if any of you guys want to add multi-monitor support for the global menu, be my guest :) FF is soon - would love to add it but finding time is hard
[09:46] <kazade> gord, I think the issue is that any kind of multi-monitor support on global menu will be just a hacky patch over the fact that they don't really work :)
[09:46] <kazade> I'd be happy if the global menu was disabled if you have above a certain resolution or multiple monitors
[09:47] <kazade> like >= 900px vertical res
[09:47] <gord> kazade, i already showed you how to disable it
[09:47] <kazade> yeah that's fine for me, but I'm a programmer...
[09:48] <daubers> Anybody good with dealing with stupid tape drives?
[09:51] <ali1234> demon DNS has fallen over :(
[09:52] <ali1234> can anyone tell me the ip address of gb.archive.ubuntu.com?
[09:52] <jpds> ali1234: 194.169.254.10
[09:52] <ali1234> ty
[09:52] <Neoti01> why not use OpenDNS ?
[09:52] <jpds> ali1234: 2a01:450:10:1::10
[09:52] <jpds> Neoti01: Because I know the IPs by heart.
[09:52] <gord> ali1234, also in case you need it , 8.8.8.8 , google dns :)
[09:53] <gord> Neoti01, opendns are slow and redirects and ew
[09:54] <czajkowski> Good morning
[09:54] <ali1234> having the repo in /etc/hosts will make installs faster anyway :)
[10:01] <MooDoo> czajkowski, wheres the aloha! ?
[10:03]  * AlanBell points czajkowski to the scrollback at 08:14
[10:04] <bigcalm> popey: poke
[10:05] <czajkowski> MooDoo: Aloha
[10:05] <czajkowski> MooDoo: congrats
[10:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell: he also tweeted it
[10:05] <MooDoo> czajkowski, thanks and thanks :)
[10:06] <DJones> MooDoo: Congrats
[10:06] <MooDoo> DJones, thank you
[10:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Owncloud Packaged - Free Trial! Samba Support - At Last - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4391
[10:12] <AlanBell> mac people do discuss global menu and multi-monitors http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=352532
[10:13] <AlanBell> 70
[10:13] <czajkowski> MooDoo: so how many will you have now ?
[10:14] <MooDoo> czajkowski, 2.......jimmy will be 3 when the baby is born
[10:15] <czajkowski> you know it's a boy already ?
[10:16] <MooDoo> czajkowski, no.....we don't want to know until he/she comes out
[10:16] <czajkowski> MooDoo: so why jimmy!
[10:16] <AlanBell> wake up czajkowski :)
[10:16] <DJones> For a laptop limited to 512Mb ram & 32Mb nvidia graphics, I'm trying to decide whether to install xubuntu or lubuntu, I'm quite tempted to try lubuntu but would anybody recommend one over the other and for what reason?
[10:16] <MooDoo> czajkowski, ah sorry i think there has been some confusion.....jimmy is my first child, he will be 3 when the new baby is born
[10:17] <czajkowski> MooDoo: oh right
[10:17] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I am trying!
[10:17]  * AlanBell scps more coffee to czajkowski 
[10:17]  * MooDoo hugs czajkowski :) i still love you
[10:17] <MooDoo> ;)
[10:18]  * czajkowski is even on coke not diet coke today
[10:18] <czajkowski> today is fail
[10:18] <czajkowski> :s
[10:19] <jpds> czajkowski: You said it was a good morning earlier on.
[10:19]  * MooDoo pokes czajkowski suck it up kiddo.....then runs for not showing any respect :)
[10:19] <mungojerry> djones i actually found lubuntu slightly more modern, and better choice of apps
[10:21] <DJones> mungojerry: That was the impression I got looking at the screenshots etc, it looks very polished
[10:22] <mungojerry> note that openoffice isn't default though
[10:22] <mungojerry> otherwise good defaults (e.g. chrome, pidgin)
[10:23] <mungojerry> djones, see this list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications
[10:23] <DJones> mungojerry: Thanks, looking at it now
[10:24] <mungojerry> i end up running ubuntu on my eee pc 701 usually, although i've tried a million others.
[10:24] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:24] <MooDoo> morning s-fox
[10:24] <mungojerry> lubuntu might make it next time though
[10:25] <s-fox> Hi MooDoo :)  You okay
[10:25] <s-fox> ?
[10:25] <MooDoo> s-fox, oh i'm feeling awesome at the moment :)
[10:25] <s-fox> Oh? :)
[10:25] <MooDoo> s-fox, new baby due in sept :)
[10:25] <s-fox> Oh wow, congrats!
[10:25] <MooDoo> thanks
[10:26] <mungojerry> wow, this is the luurvve room atm
[10:26] <mungojerry> births and marriages :P
[10:26] <MooDoo> eerrr wouldn't advise marriage ;) lol
[10:32] <DJones> My wife says that to me as well
[10:32] <screen-x> morning all :)
[10:32] <screen-x> MooDoo: Marriage rocks :D
[10:33] <MooDoo> screen-x, i know i was teasing :)
[10:33] <screen-x> ;-)
[10:34]  * screen-x reads up a bit more
[10:34] <screen-x> congratulations MooDoo :)
[10:35] <MooDoo> screen-x, cheers :)
[10:39] <AlanBell> czajkowski: you or Mark coming to the BCS later?
[10:44] <popey> BigRedS: ?
[10:44] <popey> oops
[10:45] <kazade> popey, did you see my messages about your graphics bug?
[10:45] <popey> yeah, one mo
[10:46] <popey> kazade / AlanBell / ali1234 / gord, for clarity, I want to provide a patch which disables global menu if ffm is on
[10:46] <popey> because that is what mark said would be accepted by that bug report
[10:46] <popey> kazade: i do have an xorg.conf but its very basic and has nvidia # out
[10:46] <kazade> popey, just remove it
[10:46] <popey> booting...
[10:46] <kazade> there are warnings in the log about it
[10:47] <popey> http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=netgear+universal+wifi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4837233609716251624&ei=MpNjTfrEIMPbgQfM-dGlAg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEUQ8wIwBA#
[10:47]  * Laney likes that spotify works with the sound menu now
[10:47] <popey> boss bought one of them
[10:47] <popey> cunning
[10:47] <popey> turns ethernet into wifi
[10:47] <popey> useful if you have a device that has no wifi, or unsupported wifi
[10:48] <kazade> popey, that would be useful for a sky box..
[10:48] <kazade> they only have ethernet :)
[10:48] <popey> kazade: removing xorg.conf made no difference
[10:48] <kazade> bah
[10:48] <kazade> ok, thought it was worth trying :/
[10:48] <screen-x> ooh, I'd been looking for a cheap one of those..
[10:48] <DJones> kazade: I was just thinking that about a sky box, Sky offer a wireless adapter for the HD boxes, but I think it was about £69
[10:50] <ali1234> you can probably avoid paying for the sky branded one by reflashing the IDs on a generic one...
[10:50] <mungojerry> btw popey i saw your tweet about virgin media packet loss...i had the same issues usually during half term and weeknights. i called virgin helpless desk with proof of packet loss and they said it was my antivirus or firewall. i tried to explain that i had even removed devices attached to my router, but had enabled ping on the router, which was still seeing dropped packets. he said "disable firewall on your windows machine". i said, stop being
[10:51] <mungojerry> i used to have virgin cable tv + broadband + phone + mobile...now i am no longer a customer of them
[10:51] <ali1234> the problems during weeknights are their aggressive packet shaping
[10:51] <ali1234> which they claim they don't do but obviously do
[10:52] <mungojerry> unfortunately it caused 30-50% packet loss
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: bufferbloat?
[10:52] <ali1234> yes, it will
[10:53] <mungojerry> i recorded all my calls with them. unfortunately i failed to record the call where i cancelled the service
[10:53] <ali1234> anyway, the correct answer when they ask you to do stupid things like "disable your firewall" is to say "i have"
[10:53] <mungojerry> then they tried threatening me to retrieve a late cancellation fee
[10:54] <screen-x> I would have though 20Megabit with 30% packet loss would be better than the 1.5Megabit ADSL I currently have.
[10:54] <mungojerry> ali1234, i asked him to try pinging me, and he said, sorry i do not have that facility. because he was a call-centre monkey . and wouldn't pass me to manager
[10:54] <ali1234> don't confuse them
[10:54] <ali1234> just say it's not working and act dumb
[10:54] <ali1234> it's the only way
[10:54] <popey> yeah
[10:55] <popey> and say that you have done stuff when they tell you to
[10:55] <popey> "disable firewall"
[10:55] <popey> (wait a while)"
[10:55] <popey> "Ok, done that!"
[10:55] <ali1234> they can't skip the screens
 done
[10:55] <mungojerry> i did phone every night for 2 weeks trying different methods
[10:55] <kazade> popey, was it the xorg-edgers ppa you added?
[10:55] <mungojerry> they refused to refund the cost of the call because they said it was my problem
[10:55] <mungojerry> thieves
[10:56] <screen-x> I tried the cold calling anti script the other day, it was much fun :)
[10:56] <screen-x> The guy on the other end was must suprised that I was asking him the questions :)
[10:56] <mungojerry> screen-x , what's that?
[10:56] <screen-x> http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html
[10:56] <screen-x> (SFW)
[10:58] <ali1234> someone needs to make that into a Qt app and start cataloguing the results
[10:58] <mungojerry> i had a cold call from one of my utility suppliers the other day, they asked for my full address for seucirty reasons before continuing with the call.
[10:58]  * screen-x is currently scared of posting links after his previous one went wrong..
[10:58] <mungojerry> needless to say the call didn't last long
[10:58] <mungojerry> LOL @ screen-x
[10:59] <ali1234> i have had where they call you and ask for security details, but they have always given me a number to call back when i refused
[10:59] <ali1234> so in your case it probably was a scam
[10:59] <X3N> anyone know if there is going to be an ubuntu varient based on the GNOME 3 stack?
[10:59] <kazade> popey, Looks like this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31676
[11:00] <popey> kazade: i have no ppa's
[11:01] <mungojerry> wow, moved my redhat mirrors onto my SAN..i can now kickstart a server in 5 minutes :)
[11:01] <kazade> popey, "Added experimental mesa/dri libs for nouveau and restarted" ...
[11:01] <kazade> you did it from source?
[11:01] <kazade> oh right I see
[11:01] <kazade> nm
[11:01] <popey> no
[11:01] <dogmatic69> o/
[11:02] <kazade> popey, might be worth testing xorg-edgers, if it works then at least they know where to start looking for a fix :)
[11:02] <popey> sudo apt-get install ligbl1-mesa-dri-experimental
[11:02] <popey> thats all I did
[11:03] <kazade> ok, I didn't realize Ubuntu had a package like that :)
[11:04] <popey> which is (I believe) gives you basic opengl support in nouveau?
[11:04] <kazade> yeah sounds plausible - it is probably a kernel mismatch or something..
[11:05] <kazade> nouveau DRM lives in the kernel, perhaps the experimental dri drivers haven't been updated to match
[11:05] <kazade> (just guessing)
[11:05] <popey> desktop has same packages
[11:05] <popey> and works
[11:06] <kazade> yeah, I dunno :)
[11:08] <mungojerry> sometimes unity shows the word "panel" in the top left in the unity panel menu where the window title usually appears..anyone else seen that?
[11:11] <ali1234> if you dist-upgrade to natty, do you keep your existing gnome desktop?
[11:12] <Laney> I lost my window manager, but otherwise yeah there is a 'classic' session
[11:12] <ali1234> i mean by default...
[11:12] <Laney> i never saw unity
[11:12] <Laney> so probably
[11:13] <davmor2> morning all
[11:13]  * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
[11:14] <MooDoo> davmor2, good morning kind sir
[11:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: You must have me mixed up with someone else :D
[11:14] <MooDoo> davmor2, ello me ole slapper ;)
[11:15] <davmor2> MooDoo: awlright me owld mukka
[11:15] <X3N> Do I still need to get the alternate cd image to get full disk encrption options?
[11:15]  * davmor2 licks czajkowski hands to stop her tickling
[11:15] <screen-x> X3N: you could setup an encrypted disk an install into that from the live cd, but it wouldnt boot without some tweaking post install.
[11:16] <MooDoo> davmor2, czajkowski you two get a room
[11:16] <screen-x> X3N: I do that when installing onto LVM with a live cd.
[11:17] <czajkowski> davmor2: too far!
[11:17] <X3N> hmm, i'll just use an alternate cd image
[11:17]  * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step 
[11:17] <MooDoo> czajkowski, can i go too school marm ;)
[11:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: well it was that or slapping your hands and I didn't want to hurt you :D
[11:18]  * DJones hands czajkowski some antiseptic hand wash
[11:18]  * AlanBell passes czajkowski a bottle of stop-n-grow
[11:18] <screen-x> nasty
[11:18]  * czajkowski frowns 
[11:19] <MooDoo> czajkowski, turn that frown upside down :)
[11:19] <czajkowski> I will kick
[11:19] <MooDoo> czajkowski, behave....
[11:19] <AlanBell> http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/stop_n_grow_brush-on_liquid.html for those wondering what it is
[11:20]  * davmor2 gives czajkowski some chocolate and apologises 
[11:21]  * AlanBell ponders growing a beard of some kind
[11:22] <DJones> AlanBell: Don't, it'll terrify the chickens
[11:22] <screen-x> AlanBell: doit doit
[11:24]  * Knightwise seriously doubts all of you
[11:24] <kazade> AlanBell, name a person on which a beard looked cool...
[11:24] <kazade> Aside from Captain Birdseye obviously
[11:24]  * Knightwise thinks of RM stallman and disagrees
[11:24] <AlanBell> kazade: design team standards for beards -> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf
[11:25] <kazade> :)
[11:26] <AlanBell> at the moment it looks more like "hasn't shaved for a week" so I think I need to do something to make it look more intentional
[11:26] <kazade> AlanBell, http://reverendted.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/jono_wolves_rounded.png
[11:27] <kazade> you can't get more intentional than that ;)
[11:27] <DJones> kazade: How about http://media.social.msn.com/images/blogs/test/41_1747_20100621205611_johnny_depp_pirates.jpg for looking cool with a beard
[11:28] <mungojerry> does anyone here use checkgmail? looks like it won't work for unity :(
[11:28] <kazade> DJones, fair point, ok, so the rule of thumb is you can pull off a beard if you are Johnny Depp
[11:28] <AlanBell> DJones: don't think I am quite ready for plaits in it
[11:29]  * DJones is also thinking about ZZ Top as well
[11:29] <screen-x> http://www.tomcunliffe.com/ <-- looks good with a tache, in a nuatical way..
[11:31] <AlanBell> http://www.no-shave-november.com/beardtypes.jpg so many options
[11:32] <X3N> why isn't that called movember.com :(
[11:34] <kazade> AlanBell, Super Mario, it's gotta be!
[11:34] <DJones> Hmmh, Grow a beard in november, divorce in december
[11:34] <davmor2> kazade: santa claus
[11:35] <kazade> DJones, I'm pretty sure my GF would leave me if I grew a beard :p
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> kazade: but would you leave her if she grew one?
[11:35] <kazade> eww, hell yeah!
[11:35] <Baikonur> id your dad doesn't have a beard, you have two moms
[11:35] <Baikonur> *if
[11:38] <mungojerry> anyone gmail users here using a gmail notify program?
[11:39] <dogmatic69> yes
[11:39] <dogmatic69> docky
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> no I just keep a tab open
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> google has its own notifications (with chromium) now
[11:39] <dogmatic69> that too, but if you pin the tab in chrome you cant see that
[11:40] <mungojerry> dogmatic69, are you planning to use unity? if so, how do you expect to get notifications?
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it has _desktop_ notifications
[11:40] <dogmatic69> unity?
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no. like this; http://onepixelahead.com/2010/05/31/html5-notification-example/
[11:40] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: does not work for me
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: uhm, sorry.. this is the example page: http://www.onepixelahead.com/demos/html5Notifications/html5_notification_test.html
[11:41] <dogmatic69> ive known about chromes notices for about a year ;)
[11:41] <popey> mungojerry: i use the built in notification in chrome
[11:42]  * mungojerry is firefox user :(
[11:43] <dogmatic69> *firefail ;)
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: I want chromium to use platform notifications though :(
[11:43] <mungojerry> it's an ugly hack to require chrome browser open all the time
[11:44] <mungojerry> and it doesn't use ubuntu notifications
[11:44]  * screen-x requires a browser open all the time anyway
[11:44] <screen-x> but would like chrome to use libnotify :)
[11:44] <mungojerry> ideally there would be a unity launcher icon that updates with number of emails and sends a notify message
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: there's gmail-notifier, that integrates with the messaging menu
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> the indicator, that is
[11:45] <screen-x> I just discovered yesterday there is a gmail lab thing that puts the number of unred messages in the favicon
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> but I don't like it
[11:46] <mungojerry> when 11.04 hits, there's gonna be a lot of users installing apps that don't work anymore :S
[11:46] <davmor2> mungojerry: there is a desktop webmail app that plugs into the notifier, or when you open gmail-notify is should open an icon in the launcher that will wave at you when it wants attention
[11:46] <popey> right, got failsafe x working
[11:46] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: I used to use that till html5 desktop notificaitons arrive.
[11:46] <screen-x> d
[11:52]  * popey tries xorg crack
[11:57] <mungojerry> martijnvds,  do you mean gm-notify? just trying that one...not as good as checkgmail but at least it sort of works in the messaging menu
[11:57]  * popey reboots into xorg crack
[11:57] <mungojerry> day off today popey?
[11:57] <popey> ?
[11:58] <popey> two computers :)
[11:59] <czajkowski> mungojerry: popey never sleeps there is no off mode
[11:59] <popey> http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2011/02/finally-199-smartbook.html
[11:59] <popey> bah, no luck with xorg crack
[12:00] <davmor2> mungojerry: there is a package called desktop webmail.
[12:00]  * czajkowski will be looking out for a new light weither long battery netbook in a few months, Gorgamon died :( 
[12:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: grab an arm one you know you want too
[12:01] <czajkowski> davmor2: I do, but was told to wait...
[12:01] <mungojerry> davmor2 , that sounds different though:
[12:01] <mungojerry> !info desktop webmail
[12:01] <mungojerry> argh
[12:02] <davmor2> mungojerry: it is purely there as an indicator plugin,  you can then access it using gmail notify, web browser, or the indicator opens a browser for you iirc
[12:06] <mungojerry> davmor2, OK thanks, the description sounded a bit different, i'll try that too
[12:09] <kazade> popey, probably worth updating the bug report to say that neither removing xorg.conf or using xorg-edgers fix it
[12:10] <czajkowski> http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  Anyone going to the RMS talks ?
[12:11] <directhex> ick
[12:12] <czajkowski> directhex: well ick to you so
[12:14] <mungojerry> czajkowski, i think alanbell said he had registered for the london one yesterday
[12:14] <mungojerry> then ensued a discussion about his choice of OS :P
[12:14] <czajkowski> mungojerry: he's going to a BCS event tonight
[12:15] <shauno> dundee but no dublin/belfast.  tsk tsk tsk.
[12:15] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I am going to the RMS thing
[12:16] <DJones> AlanBell: You can compare beards :)
[12:16] <czajkowski> shauno: it' being a UK tour :)
[12:16] <czajkowski> shauno: so Dublin would definately not be on there
[12:16] <mungojerry> i wonder if you ever get hecklers at these events
[12:16] <ali1234> you do
[12:17] <mungojerry> i wonder if the sessions will be recorded
[12:17] <ali1234> it's the same lecture every time
[12:17] <ali1234> must be available on ogg somewhere
[12:17] <mungojerry> a lot has changed in the last year thoguh
[12:17] <shauno> this UK tour seems to inclue brussels, paris and amsterdam.  the UK has grown a little since I was there last ;)
[12:18] <shauno> not really complaining, just not overly mobile atm, so belfast woulda been handy
[12:18] <mungojerry> maybe julian assange will be there too..then there will be some heckling
[12:18] <czajkowski> shauno: on the http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  it lists UK locations which is what I am going by
[12:19] <shauno> meh, I'll keep my mouth shut in future.
[12:20] <ali1234> http://www.r-statistics.com/2010/07/richard-stallman-talkqa-at-the-user-2010-conference-audio-files-attached/
[12:20] <czajkowski> shauno: no just wondered had you seen elseheere I wass only going by that site. sorry.
[12:20] <mungojerry> thanks ali1234, are they wuestios from the audience?
[12:20] <mungojerry> s/wuestios/questions
[12:21] <ali1234> probably
[12:21] <shauno> cztab; same page; it mentions belgium & co, and links to the rest of the 'european tour'.  also, belfast /is/ UK ;)
[12:21] <czajkowski> shauno: ahh the  IET 'Stallman 2011' tour -
[12:21] <shauno> I wouldn't have said anything if Dundee hadn't been on the list; seems an improbably entry
[12:27] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:28] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[12:29] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[12:29] <brobostigon> hi BigRedS
[12:30] <czajkowski> shauno: he's kinda peed folks off in ireland the times he's been there.
[12:30] <czajkowski> finding a location and a group to promote it I suspect would be an issue
[12:33] <shauno> I think he's meant to tick people off.  he's the crazy by which we measure the extremsis of the field.
[12:35] <shauno> I really can't type on this keyboard :/
[12:40] <pr0ph3t> re all
[12:46] <czajkowski> 12:45 < Pendulum> hey, can anyone here RT this, I don't have many followers and I'm hoping we get some good feedback http://twitter.com/#!/colona13/status/40020405666189312  :)
[12:47] <czajkowski> Can folks help out please :D
[12:47] <BigRedS> I love it when "help with this, click here" doesn't say what 'this' is :)
[12:47] <BigRedS> Especially when it's accessibility people :)
[12:48] <pr0ph3t> what's that geeky convention that sounds like "matlock" actually called?
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: a bit more context?
[12:49] <Pendulum> BigRedS: it's about a meeting regarding making UDS more accessible
[12:49] <brobostigon> vapourlock ?
[12:49] <pr0ph3t> it's about network security etc, and I think they said google was offering $10,000 to whoever managed to hack into his system
[12:49] <pr0ph3t> and they were giving away their googleos laptops as well
[12:50] <brobostigon> chromium os*
[12:52] <pr0ph3t> it's on this video at 1:40, when Unix comes in and talks about madlocks? or something similar
[12:52] <pr0ph3t> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBNV50vXzEI
[12:52] <pr0ph3t> it's a spoof of one of those mac vs pc videos
[12:53] <ali1234> matlock is a tv show watched by old people
[12:53] <pr0ph3t> but with linux, and chromium os
[12:53] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matlock_%28TV_series%29
[12:54] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, so he's talking about TV series
[12:54] <ali1234> the joke is he's stuck in the 80s
[12:54] <pr0ph3t> but there's that convention as well, sounds like that
[12:56] <popey> hmm, why does ping sho no packet loss, but mtr does
[12:57] <pr0ph3t> I think this year was in Thailand
[12:59] <pr0ph3t> or last year
[13:00] <shauno> the pwn2own bounty was cansecwest.  not sure that sounds like matlock tho.
[13:00] <pr0ph3t> and it's Pwn2Own where Google is offering $10,000 dollars or more to hack
[13:00] <pr0ph3t> shauno, it doesn't at all in fact
[13:04] <mungojerry> this is a weird conversation
[13:06] <mungojerry> reminds me of a conversation with my nan
[13:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS Diversity Accessibility meeting TODAY - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/22/uds-diversity-accessibility-meeting-today/
[13:08] <dogmatic69> anyone have a good program for editing text files +- 2mb
[13:08] <shauno> mungojerry, indeed.  I think that video was an odd way to start it.  unix was disappointingly un-gandalf-like
[13:08] <dogmatic69> gedit is fail
[13:08]  * popey expects someone will say vi
[13:08] <popey> or emacs
[13:08] <mungojerry> vim
[13:08] <popey> or nano
[13:08] <popey> there you go
[13:09] <mungojerry> because it works :)
[13:11] <mungojerry> mtr using traceroute whicih is udp, right?
[13:11] <mungojerry> sorry, forget that, my irc window decided to scroll up to an old conversation
[13:11] <popey> nvm
[13:12] <popey> I think its a desktop bug
[13:12] <kirrus> gvim is small, nice GUI
[13:12] <dogmatic69> popey: good point
[13:12]  * dogmatic69 needs to learn nano better
[13:13] <dogmatic69> anyhow, the issue with gedit is not the size of the file.
[13:13] <mungojerry> shauno, i think that my old boss in that video
[13:13] <dogmatic69> its one line that is 248212 chars long
[13:15] <mungojerry> sweet
[13:16] <ali1234> gedit does not like extremely long lines, it's true
[13:16] <ali1234> and the crash is reproducable too
[13:16] <dogmatic69> ah ok, so im not alone
[13:21] <Mez> w00t :D
[13:21] <Mez> Finally... we have decent internet  :D
[13:21] <screen-x> whatcha got Mez?
[13:21] <Mez> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168788462.png
[13:22] <screen-x> :)
[13:22] <Mez> (considering we've been on < 3Mbps before hand :D
[13:22] <mungojerry> i wonder what connection the speedtest is on at the other end?
[13:22] <Mez> (and 512 up)
[13:25] <mungojerry> in theory i have a faster link than what speedtest is telling me, but maybe speedtest upstream end is slower than mine :P
[13:25] <ali1234> i doubt it
[13:25] <jpds> mungojerry: Very possible.
[13:25] <mungojerry> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168793884.png
[13:25] <BigRedS> yeah, it's reasonably plausible, depending upon the relative speeds
[13:26] <ali1234> i think it is more likely that they have colocated boxes
[13:26] <ali1234> that's probably how they make money
[13:26] <BigRedS> yeah, especially at that sort of speeds
[13:26] <ali1234> "if you don't buy or box your users will get slow results on our test"
[13:26] <BigRedS> Ooh, that's where I went to uni
[13:27] <mungojerry> bigreds :) which dept
[13:27] <BigRedS> I, er, attempted Aero Eng
[13:27] <BigRedS> I didn't get very far... :)
[13:27] <mungojerry> it's a lovely area :P
[13:27] <BigRedS> haha, they were just doing up the campus when I left, about four years ago
[13:28] <BigRedS> but, yeah, the surrounding area isn't wonderful
[13:28] <BigRedS> ls
[13:28] <BigRedS> oop
[13:28] <Mez> mungojerry: why, what speed SHOULD you hav?
[13:29] <andylockran> howdy
[13:29] <mungojerry> 1Gb/s on JANET , not sure about janet's links to rest of net
[13:30] <BigRedS> I'd not be surprised if the speedtest server's on a (or multiple) 100mb lines, so you'll max out there anyway
[13:30] <jpds> mungojerry: http://www.ja.net/company/external-connectivity.html
[13:30] <mungojerry> i was thinking the same
[13:30] <mungojerry> sweet
[13:30] <jpds> Mez: See, some of us think 1Gbps is 'decent'. ;)
[13:32] <andylockran> Mez: they're lying to you
[13:32] <andylockran> Massively lying to you.
[13:32] <andylockran> How DARE they.
[13:32] <andylockran> Manchester Internet.. you're in Birmingham, and it says a distance of <50 miles.
[13:33] <andylockran> I wish I could get from Brum to Manchester in 25ms.. that'd cut my communute nicely
[13:36] <Mez> andylockran: GeoIP fail I guess..
[13:36] <Mez> We're hooked up to Alpha Tower
[13:40] <Mez> jpds: when you've been dealing with what we had before for 2 years...
[13:40] <Mez> jpds: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168801114.png
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168813104.png
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> I win
[13:41] <Mez> MartijnVdS: me - damned EU providers...
[13:42] <Mez> Wish they'd do that in the UK
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> Mez: this is at work
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> Mez: I work at that ISP :)
[13:42] <mungojerry> martijnvds, you didn't see my link then :P
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: hm.. I'll have that at home by the end of the year
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: 100/100 symmetric (fiber)
[13:44] <mungojerry> i wonder what the threshold is for turning off disk caching in your browser
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: depends on the conneciton the other side has as well
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: also, http://www.bufferbloat.net/
[13:48] <wintellect> o/
[13:50] <danfish> afternoon
[13:50] <davmor2> Mez: here's mine and mine's on a go slow at the minute http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168822622.png
[13:51] <danfish> MartijnVdS: call that fast? Check my connection out http://www.fishms.org/1168813756.png :P
[13:51] <screen-x> danfish: haha
[13:52]  * MartijnVdS steals danfish's copy of GIMP
[13:52] <danfish> ..and they took GIMP out of the default install - for shame!
[13:52] <mungojerry> danfish, lol but still slow latency there old chap
[13:53] <danfish> mungojerry: that can be changed ;)
[13:53] <mungojerry> negative latency would be interesting to see
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: packets arriving before they were sent?
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: sounds like a job for.. the TARDIS
[13:54] <screen-x> relativity..?
[13:54] <danfish> mungojerry: pre-cog - google are working on it apparently
[13:54] <mungojerry> pre-emptive loading supposed to work on browsers innit?
[13:54] <Apacheuk> davmor2: heres mine, I have had better but its not bad http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168827953.png
[13:56] <mungojerry> try selecting a host in africa instead
[13:56] <BigRedS> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168830409.png I'm told the bottleneck is the nic in my PC, though...
[13:56] <mungojerry> would probably make everyone's browsers go slow
[13:56] <mungojerry> in that country
[13:57] <mungojerry> bigreds, that is a slow ping time..something's a bit weird
[13:58] <andylockran> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168832939.png
[13:58] <mungojerry> lunch over, back 2 work for me
[13:59] <andylockran> off to lunch for me :)
[14:00] <screen-x> BigRedS: moar gigglebytes plz
[14:02]  * DJones tickles screen-x to get more gigglebytes
[14:04]  * daubers noms lunch
[14:05]  * danfish cleans up the kids' nommage mess
[14:10] <brobostigon> using gnome-shell ppa, gnome-shell isnt installing on natty, plenty of dependency issues.
[14:10] <X3N> which ppa is that?
[14:11] <brobostigon> ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu/
[14:13] <X3N> hmm might try it in a bit
[14:13] <brobostigon> X3N: i would be interested to know what happens, please.
[14:14] <brobostigon> X3N: incase there is something i am missing.
[14:15]  * brobostigon gets more coffee
[14:20] <brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
[14:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude :)
[14:21] <HazRPG> hey all \o
[14:22]  * brobostigon shares his crinkly salt and vineger crisps.
[14:22]  * kirrus provides chocolate muffins
[14:23]  * MooDoo provides the love.......
[14:23]  * brobostigon gets real ale.
[14:23] <MooDoo> brobostigon, realale ftw!
[14:23] <screen-x> brobostigon: not sure the sun is over the yard yet..
[14:24] <brobostigon> screen-x: hmm,
[14:24] <brobostigon> MooDoo: old hooky, ok?
[14:27] <MooDoo> brobostigon, yum
[14:28] <andylockran> peppered scrambled egg on toast :)
[14:28] <HazRPG> Woo! Just did my first proper blog post since last year :).
[14:28] <MooDoo> HazRPG, well done
[14:28] <brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
[14:29] <HazRPG> a few of you guys are in it ^^
[14:29] <MooDoo> HazRPG, url?
[14:29] <HazRPG> http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/
[14:29] <andylockran> http://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70 < is that working for anyone
[14:29] <HazRPG> Its long...
[14:30] <andylockran> I'm getting a Joomla error.
[14:30] <HazRPG> andylockran: so far it isn't even loading for me...
[14:30] <DJones> andylockran: This site is temporarily unavailable
[14:30] <dogmatic69> not loading for me
[14:30] <andylockran> ok, no worries - thanks.
[14:31] <DJones> It also says please notify the system administrator ..... Is that you?
[14:31] <shauno> screen-x: the sun should cross the yardarm by mid-morning.  it's nearly always acceptable for a sailor to drink :)
[14:31] <HazRPG> DJones: I was helping out with some SQL stuff the other day, so I'm guessing so :P
[14:31]  * brobostigon yay's, he is famous now, :)
[14:32] <screen-x> shauno: I've never really understood the phrase,  I would have thought it depends on the orientation of the vessel, but I thought it was generally early evening.
[14:32] <HazRPG> andylockran: anything we can help you with dude?
[14:33] <HazRPG> andylockran: oh wait, it just loaded up... took some time, but its open now!
[14:33] <shauno> screen-x: the yard-arm is a horizontal beam, usually the largest / tallest one. so it's just the angle of the sun over the horizon
[14:33] <HazRPG> or have you just fixed it?
[14:33] <popey> hmm, pbuilder-dist seems to be just kinda sat there at "Writing extended state information"
[14:33] <HazRPG> MooDoo: you reading my blog?
[14:35] <shauno> that site works here, but terribly slowly
[14:38] <shauno> 2011-02-22 14:34:23 http://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70
[14:38] <shauno> 2011-02-22 14:36:10 (178 KB/s) - `index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70' saved [92056]
[14:38] <shauno> almost 2 mins for the response
[14:38] <MooDoo> HazRPG, yeah in between working lol
[14:38] <HazRPG> MooDoo: cool :)
[14:38] <andylockran> DJones: nope, not mee
[14:39]  * popey pokes aptitude
[14:42] <davmor2> aptitude bites popey for poking it
[14:42] <popey> trying to build a package
[14:42] <popey> aptitude is sat there on Writing extended state information
[14:42] <popey> doing nothing
[14:43] <popey> bet its the proxy
[14:43] <MartijnVdS> the poxy proxy
[14:43] <davmor2> popey: possibly
[14:44] <popey> bah
[14:44] <popey> nope
[14:44] <popey> does aptitude read etc/apt/apt.conf.d/proxy
[14:44] <popey> ?
[14:45] <Laney> possibly not inside a chroot
[14:45] <davmor2> popey: aptitude might not but I'd of thought that apt that is doing the work would
[14:45] <Laney> set http_proxy and pass -E to sudo
[14:46] <popey> sudo?
[14:46] <popey> I am using pbuilder-dist
[14:47] <Laney> uses sudo internally
[14:47] <popey> sure
[14:47] <popey> but i dont have anywhere to specify -E
[14:47] <Laney> sudo -E pbuilder-dist foo
[14:47] <Laney> i think it warns but shouldn't stop you
[14:48] <popey> it stops you
[14:48] <Laney> alternatively you can pass the environment variable in sudoers using env_keep
[14:48] <Laney> bah
[14:49]  * brobostigon has decided his only option is to compile gnome-shell from scratch.
[14:50] <andylockran> don't suppose there's a wordpress plugin to do a whois of a username on freenode, and then print which channels a user is in into their blog..
[14:51] <popey> unlikely
[14:53] <shauno> that doesn't sound like a job for wp to be honest.  I'd have the local client writing them out every n minutes and leaving the results somewhere php can reach
[14:54] <popey> ooo, alternative option
[14:54] <popey> ssh to home and do the pbuilder there
[14:55] <shauno> (in my case, irssi & apache run on the same host, so I'd probably just glob my logs folder and return any that had mtime in the last n minutes)
[15:01] <HazRPG> *shyface*
[15:02]  * HazRPG wonders what MooDoo thinks so far
[15:03] <Laney> another alternative is to pbuilder-dist foo login --save-after-login and set the proxy in there
[15:03] <MooDoo> HazRPG, yeah nice post :)   what vm software are you using?
[15:04] <czajkowski> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/22-feb-2011/open-source-system-integrators-forum
[15:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty czajkowski i saw Mark's tweets on this yesterday.
[15:06] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: just all in one place now
[15:06] <HazRPG> hmm, I'm not sure if I like some of the crowd that's in the mailing list so far lol
[15:06]  * HazRPG loves his irc friends more
[15:07] <HazRPG> MooDoo: VirtualBox, mainly because it has support for 64-bit and works great out of the box.
[15:07] <popey> aaaargh
[15:07] <popey> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/Release
[15:07] <HazRPG> for networking I should say*
[15:08]  * popey tickles exobuzz 
[15:08] <czajkowski> HazRPG: which ML ?
[15:08] <HazRPG> czajkowski: the ubuntu-uk one
[15:08] <exobuzz> hi
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> better late than never.. Vodafone-NL starts offering EDGE
[15:08] <czajkowski> HazRPG: it's usually rather polite, whats up ?
[15:08] <screen-x> czajkowski: that sounds encouraging
[15:09] <czajkowski> screen-x: yup :D
[15:09] <exobuzz> popey, temporary glitch ?
[15:09] <HazRPG> czajkowski: well yeah, I'm not saying they're bad or anything... its just some are really picky
[15:10] <popey> wheee, tamed it
[15:10] <popey> exobuzz: a friend was just asking me in pm about your joggler images
[15:10] <screen-x> HazRPG: I like IRC because it doesnt mount up if you go away for a few days..
[15:10] <popey> exobuzz: he's interested in a cut down image, maybe just the basics, and x maybe gdm+gnome too
[15:11] <popey> nothing more
[15:11] <HazRPG> czajkowski: I essentially got flamed the other day for my posting style, and someone in one of the threads I was reading said something about "Oh no, not more of this rubbish!" in regards to someone using the hands-in-air ascii guy (this dude: \o/)
[15:11] <popey> meh, ignore that
[15:11] <popey> or get a thick skin :)
[15:11] <czajkowski> HazRPG: as popey said ignore it
[15:11] <screen-x> \o/ smilies
[15:11] <popey> i didnt see a flame, just liam being grumpy
[15:12] <czajkowski> HazRPG: also just a new ML so it make take some time getting used to how things are done on it, but most of the folks on here are on there also.
[15:12]  * soneill has seen popey use ascii art
[15:12] <popey>  \o/
[15:12] <popey>  ( )
[15:12] <popey>  |'|
[15:12] <soneill> lol
[15:12] <screen-x> popey: --> naughty step
[15:12] <popey> :)
[15:12] <soneill> sorry, I mean to say I just smirked a little visibly
[15:13] <HazRPG> popey: heh, trust me I do have a good knack of not letting things get me down :)
[15:14] <HazRPG> czajkowski: ah, I didn't know the ML was pretty new - I thought it had been around for a while now.
[15:14] <czajkowski> HazRPG: it's not
[15:14] <czajkowski> HazRPG: you're new to it
[15:14] <screen-x> HazRPG: your new to it
[15:14] <screen-x> snap
[15:14] <czajkowski> screen-x: :)
[15:14] <HazRPG> oh heh
[15:14] <czajkowski> 65
[15:14] <czajkowski> ^5
[15:14] <exobuzz> popey, he could delete gnome http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce ?
[15:15] <exobuzz> and all the other stuff
[15:15]  * HazRPG feels stupid now
[15:15] <exobuzz> popey, is your friend Quinten ? just wondering heh
[15:15] <HazRPG> ah it'll be fine, I'll get use to the way things are done in no time :)
[15:16] <screen-x> HazRPG: :)
[15:16] <ali1234> joggler isn't pinetrail right?
[15:16] <HazRPG> popey: yeah I meant grumpy - couldn't think of the word at the time
[15:18] <HazRPG> I've been too busy coding that my english gets thrown out of the window temporarily
[15:18]  * screen-x wants a biro was readline support
[15:19] <screen-x> *with
[15:28] <HazRPG> brobostigon: how's the compiling gnome-shell from scratch working out for ya?
[15:28] <popey> exobuzz: no, dom
[15:29] <dutchie> HazRPG: it's fun!
[15:29] <dwatkins> yes?
[15:30] <brobostigon> HazRPG: its still installing dependencies.
[15:30] <dwatkins> I'm guessing you don't really mean me, popey ;)
[15:31] <popey> nope
[15:31] <HazRPG> MooDoo: why the interest in what VM I was using btw?
[15:33] <MooDoo> HazRPG, just being nosey :)
[15:33] <HazRPG> MooDoo: ah :P
[15:35] <HazRPG> MooDoo: I'm too scared to completely scrap my current server for now because I use it for so many things, and since my knowledge of ubuntu server isn't to the same level as what I know for Windows Server, it would just put a whole monkey wrench in the whole operation and harmony of things.
[15:35] <exobuzz> ali1234, "Silverthorne" according to wikipedia
[15:35] <ali1234> i think the intel meego tablet ux would be pretty nice on it, but it needs pinetrail
[15:35] <MooDoo> HazRPG, vmware :)
[15:35] <HazRPG> MooDoo: So for now it sits in a nice VM inside the server for testing and for helping migrate it later.
[15:35] <MooDoo> lol
[15:36] <HazRPG> I've only ever used VMware at college/uni - and well I've always thought it to be a pain sometimes
[15:36] <MooDoo> ah
[15:37] <screen-x> HazRPG: you run a personal windows server? What for?
[15:37] <MooDoo> personal servers ftw!
[15:38] <shauno> aye, but windows?
[15:38] <BigRedS> but personal *windows* ones?
[15:38] <BigRedS> That's a form of masochism, surely? :)
[15:38] <HazRPG> screen-x: managing code, web-server, voip, print/scan server, and a few other things from time to time
[15:38] <MooDoo> yeah i run windows, for backups and anything that i can't use linux for :)
[15:38] <MooDoo> and as a practice server for my windows exams :)
[15:39] <screen-x> HazRPG: I would find those easier to run on linux, but each to his own ;-)
[15:39] <HazRPG> shauno, BigRedS: I hate to say it, but my experience and knowledge was mainly aimed towards Windows Servers and the way it does networking - because its what I was always pushed down my throat from Cisco/Uni/College/etc
[15:39] <MooDoo> BigRedS, depends if you use windows or not :)
[15:40] <HazRPG> heh I was training for Windows exams at one point too - but decided against it in the end
[15:41] <shauno> I haven't used windows at home since it was 16bit, so that just seems otherworldly to me
[15:41] <MooDoo> HazRPG, better chance of me getting a better job if i have windows server exams, even though i have the skills already
[15:41] <ali1234> can't imagine using windows on a server... it's just ... how do you even supposed to get a shell?
[15:41] <directhex> windows sysadminning? :/
[15:41] <HazRPG> screen-x: trust me, I've been wanting to put linux on it for years... but well like I said my knowledge and experience is more aimed towards microsoft stuff... linux has always just been an operating system I've taught myself out of pure interest because I believe in the same sort of things open-source try to bring to the world
[15:41] <MooDoo> ali1234, lol you don't get a shell
[15:41] <directhex> ali1234, telnet in remotely!
[15:41] <daubers> Just reading through the gumpf for a 10GbE switch we just recieved, looks like it's running linux
[15:41] <MooDoo> well a dos prompt
[15:42] <HazRPG> MooDoo: I know how you feel
[15:42] <directhex> daubers, most expensive switches run one Free os or another
[15:42] <ali1234> how can you do anything without a shell?
[15:42] <MooDoo> ali1234, you're not serious right?
[15:42] <screen-x> ali1234: <click> x alot
[15:42] <MooDoo> sorry can't read peoples witt over irc :)
[15:42] <screen-x> !alot
[15:43] <daubers> directhex: Makes me wonder if I can build a good enough one for less than the £12k this one cost
[15:44] <HazRPG> don't worry guys, I do intend fully to switch over to a linux home server ;)
[15:44] <daubers> sorry, missed a point
[15:44] <daubers> £1.2k
[15:44] <MooDoo> HazRPG, i won't :)
[15:44] <directhex> 1.2k for 10gbe is peanuts
[15:44] <HazRPG> like with anything, there's a learning curve to go through first
[15:44] <HazRPG> my main issue is some hardware just don't work right in linux due to lack of support from the vendors
[15:44]  * HazRPG hates his stupid printer
[15:45] <directhex> and Juniper will sell you £12k switches happily
[15:45] <directhex> if you get a discount
[15:45] <ali1234> so, if you run a windows server and you want to reboot it, you have to pull up terminal services and click on start menu, or what? is that how it really is?
[15:45] <MooDoo> HazRPG, yes that's right, but most products to already or at least have a work around
[15:45] <MooDoo> ali1234, yup :)
[15:45] <daubers> This is a toshiba
[15:45] <ali1234> then i pity windows server admin
[15:45] <HazRPG> ali1234: I use RDP to control my box, or sometimes VNC - depends where I am...
[15:45] <MooDoo> ali1234, i'm using RDP to my windows box now, using x-chat coz i've broken my ssh vm :)
[15:46] <HazRPG> MooDoo: true... but my printer is just hopeless with any workaround
[15:47] <HazRPG> its an Epson Stylus DX5050 that my mum bought as a moving in gift - which at the time was great, however linux doesn't seem to like it very much
[15:48] <andylockran> argh, I hate it when people in IRC channels get all high and mighty
[15:48] <HazRPG> I'm yet to find a way to scan documents in linux over the network
[15:48] <popey> http://foxlx.acmesystems.it/?id=158 haz <-
[15:49] <screen-x> we use SANE's networking here, so that the secretaries can share scanners
[15:49] <screen-x> (rest of the network isnt so sane :p )
[15:49] <brobostigon> HazRPG: finally got to checking code from git.
[15:50] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hurray \o/
[15:50] <HazRPG> popey: hmm, I'll check that out - thanks :)
[15:50] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
[15:51] <HazRPG> popey: hmm, do I need to get one of those boards to get it working or is it just the tools I need?
[15:51] <screen-x> HazRPG: just a sane supported scanner
[15:52] <popey> no idea
[15:52] <popey> google ;)
[15:52] <HazRPG> I'm sure I've tried doing something similar to this in the past :s
[15:53] <screen-x> UPS just sent me an email saying there was a short power outage in 1970, I wish it could either keep time, or remember the ntp server I keep giving it..
[15:53] <HazRPG> MooDoo: did you +1 my post :P?
[15:54] <HazRPG> screen-x: either that, or it's really slow at tell you what's up :P
[15:54] <andylockran> HazRPG: what's the url?
[15:54] <screen-x> heh, we have some old kit here, but not that old...
[15:55] <HazRPG> andylockran: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/
[15:58] <czajkowski> whooo we get to publish the slides from yesterdays cabinet event :D
[15:59] <AlanBell> nice :)
[15:59] <brobostigon> is it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?
[15:59] <HazRPG> winner :)
[15:59] <andylockran> czajkowski: when they coming up?
[15:59] <czajkowski> just getting them now
[15:59] <czajkowski> need to put them on a server!
[16:01] <shauno> I can't believe it's only 4pm.  today needs to get a move on
[16:02] <andylockran> czajkowski: there's a typo in the title of the computerworld article :s
[16:02] <andylockran> they've put CAbinet Office
[16:02] <dogmatic69> shauno: good call
[16:07]  * brobostigon gets the feeling he will need patience.
[16:21] <czajkowski> andylockran: not us
[16:21] <czajkowski> :)
[16:23] <davmor2> brobostigon: No idea sorry
[16:25] <brobostigon> davmor2: what for, ?
 is it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?
[16:26] <brobostigon> davmor2: i see, :)
[16:28] <czajkowski> andylockran: site now has link to slides
[16:39] <not-the-infidel> hi i have ubuntu installed and was wondering what the recommeded size of the swap space would be i have 230gb hdd -windows 7 installed first this is using 100gb -- ubuntu has 41 gb and 21gbswap 21gb extended have i gone wrong i have been told by a friend that its unnecessary and i only need a few gb is this true?many thanks.a reinstall is no problem
[16:39] <not-the-infidel> few gb swap space
[16:39] <not-the-infidel> ^^
[16:40] <BigRedS> not-the-infidel: depends
[16:40] <BigRedS> do you want to be able to hibernate?
[16:41] <brobostigon> in which case you need equal swap to ram.
[16:41] <BigRedS> no, swap then needs to be the size of ram + (swap in use when hibernating)
[16:41] <BigRedS> perhaps double that, I'm not sure
[16:41] <popey> nope
[16:41] <dwatkins> Win! I got 64-bit Ubuntu to boot on my virtual server
[16:42] <popey> needs to be amount of ram in use + (swap in use when hibernating)
[16:42] <popey> not size of ram
[16:42] <not-the-infidel> i have 3gb ram
[16:42] <not-the-infidel> so three gb swap
[16:42] <popey> AIUI it hibernates out only used blocks, not all blocks
[16:42] <BigRedS> else, swap needs to be the difference between the memory you hve and the memory you want to use, assuming you want to use more than you have
[16:42] <brobostigon> ok.
[16:42] <not-the-infidel> its 21gb at the moment
[16:42] <popey> 21GB swap?
[16:42] <popey> heheh
[16:42] <popey> sounds like the servers here :)
[16:42] <not-the-infidel> lol nnnnooooooooooob
[16:43] <popey> Mem:  33030808k total, 27800400k used,  5230408k free,   414512k buffers
[16:43] <popey> Swap: 33554424k total, 12316828k used, 21237596k free, 12392236k cached
[16:43] <popey> ^^
[16:43] <BigRedS> popey: seriously? That sounds like a lot of wrong
[16:43] <popey> nope, not wrong
[16:43] <popey> I get this a lot
[16:43] <BigRedS> haha
[16:43] <not-the-infidel> so overkill then
[16:43] <popey> nope
[16:43] <popey> :)
[16:43] <dwatkins> I remember hearing that swap should be twice RAM.
[16:43] <popey> it's the right size for the apps on it
[16:44] <popey> dwatkins: old advice :)
[16:44]  * popey says the magic word "SAP"
[16:44] <popey> SAP _eats_ memory.
[16:44] <BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, that's an old comment that someone at some point decided was actually a guideline
[16:44] <screen-x> nom
[16:44] <dogmatic69> anyone ran this before? "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=64k& sleep 10; kill -INT %1; wait %1"
[16:44] <BigRedS> ahhh, I've never seen SAP IRL, I'll just sympathise :)
[16:44] <not-the-infidel> whatt would your advice be to use i can reinstall if i need to
[16:45] <BigRedS> not-the-infidel: do you want to be able to hibernate?
[16:45] <not-the-infidel> yep i do
[16:45] <not-the-infidel> BigRedS,
[16:45] <BigRedS> In that case, I'd go with swap space about the size of your memory
[16:45] <not-the-infidel> yes
[16:45] <popey> you can resize filesystems
[16:46] <not-the-infidel> so i can resize swap whilst running ubuntu
[16:46] <brobostigon> from live cd, with gparted,
[16:46] <not-the-infidel> i got ubuntu desktop disc
[16:47] <brobostigon> install gparted onto, and resize with gparted. yes.
[16:47] <not-the-infidel> ok doin
[16:48] <popey> you can drop swap whilst the system is running
[16:48] <popey> you dont need gparted
[16:48] <popey> and then create a new smaller one
[16:48] <screen-x> or use a swap file
[16:48] <popey> or that
[16:48]  * dwatkins is impressed with Ubuntu 10.10's installer which proceeds whilst asking user name information
[16:48] <not-the-infidel> dont give me toooo many options
[16:49] <popey> have you seen what it says if you leave it and dont fill the name in SWAT ?
[16:49] <popey> er dwatkins
[16:49] <popey> sorry SWAT
[16:49] <popey> "Ready when you are"
[16:49] <andylockran> :)
[16:49] <dogmatic69> that was pretty cool
[16:49]  * brobostigon goes back under his rock, again.
[16:50] <dwatkins> popey: heh
[16:50] <not-the-infidel> ok got gparted installed and running
[16:51] <dwatkins> popey: I've been battling with vmware in order to get to this point - seeing the Ubuntu 64-bit CD booting was a great relief :)
[16:52] <czajkowski> popey: you haz mail ;)
[16:52] <screen-x> dwatkins: kvm is pretty easy if you're running a linux host
[16:52] <dwatkins> screen-x: I support vmware in a sense, so am restricted
[16:53] <popey> czajkowski: we're going to visit the other venue tomorrow
[16:53] <shauno> dwatkins: I noticed that too dwatkins.  very nifty  (the installer doing something sensible while it waits for input)
[16:54] <czajkowski> popey: cool
[16:54] <not-the-infidel> i turned off swap and resizing to 6144mb do i need to any free space preceeding or folling  it?
[16:55] <not-the-infidel> ^^following
[16:55] <BigRedS> not-the-infidel: nope
[16:55] <dwatkins> shauno: yeah, it makes perfect sense - reminds me of the days when the installer would ask loads of questions you really don't need asking
[16:55] <BigRedS> it doesn't really mind where it is
[16:55] <not-the-infidel> ty
[16:56] <not-the-infidel> because i have the swap space so large it going to leave the remaing space following it shall i just delete and create a new one
[16:57] <BigRedS> not-the-infidel: depends upon what else is on the disk, normally you'd just resize whatever's in it to fill that space
[16:57] <BigRedS> though if you've no shortage of space, you might as well just leave it until some partition does fill up, and make use of it then
[16:58] <not-the-infidel> ok thankjs again
[17:00] <screen-x> http://code.google.com/apis/storage/ <-- anyone tried that?
[17:02] <not-the-infidel> i now have two 6gb spaces how do i make this swap space again
[17:03] <screen-x> not-the-infidel: 6gb gaps between partitions?
[17:06] <jacobw> Hmm, does anything actually use the swap space you'd put on a modern machine following the 2*RAM rule?
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> not all of it
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> but maybe suspend-to-disk
[17:07] <jacobw> Ah, I hadn't thought of that
[17:08] <ali1234> hmm, you think you won't need swap?
[17:08] <shauno> 2*ram was never a rule :/
[17:08] <ali1234> that reminds me, i need to report a bug against magemagick
[17:09] <exobuzz> http://kerneltrap.org/node/3202
[17:09] <shauno> ignoring constants like suspend, you're meant to swap around your actual usage.  swap uses real memory.  it's not just a benign chunk of disk if you go overboard
[17:11] <ali1234> "Today, 128M RAM swapless is barely enough to run full spectrum of apps. OpenOffice and Mozilla "lead" the pack, followed by KDE/Gnome etc. "
[17:11] <ali1234> HAHAHAHAHA
[17:11] <ali1234> i wish i could run that stuff in 128M of ram
[17:12] <exobuzz> i have 64kb of ram
[17:14] <shauno> I'm not sure I'd be tempted to start X in 128Mb anymore.  sad state of affairs, but there you go
[17:17] <andylockran> I'm contemplating setting up an aws instance for hosting big databases.
[17:19] <BigRedS> andylockran: how big? I've heard stories of them just stopping scaling
[17:19] <BigRedS> though I can't remember at what sort of point
[17:19] <BigRedS> but it's not acknowledged by amazon, it just stops growing
[17:20] <andylockran> BigRedS: It's 30GB at the moment.
[17:23] <BigRedS> andylockran: Ah, these were a fair bit bigger :)
[17:23] <BigRedS> and really rather busy
[17:24] <andylockran> BigRedS: Have you used AWS much then?
[17:26] <brobostigon> gtk3's source is massive, :(
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: gtk2 as well
[17:27] <BigRedS> andylockran: no, but someone who rants at me occasionally does :)
[17:27] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not good, ii reckon it will come to about 300MB, intotal. (gtk3)
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is that just the source, or the source + all revisions (git)
[17:29] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: git.
[17:31] <jacobw> 300mb?!
[17:31] <HazRPG> MooDoo: ouch, just re-reading
[17:31] <HazRPG> my post and noticed typos >_<
[17:33] <brobostigon> jacobw: yes.
[17:36] <brobostigon> 185MB in total, i miscalcuation on my part. but still massive.
[17:37] <jacobw> Yeah, I don't understand how these things balloon
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> it's history upon history
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> gtk is >10 years old!
[17:39] <brobostigon> good point,
[17:39] <HazRPG> I thought gtk3 was a rework?
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's still built on the older work
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, in the same git repo, so old versions (even though they might have been deleted) still exist somewhere in the repo
[17:40] <HazRPG> true...
[17:40] <HazRPG> brobostigon: 185MB is nothing compared to some of the projects I've downloaded over git in the past
[17:40] <HazRPG> I recall ManGOS being well over that at one point
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> MangyOS?
[17:41] <brobostigon> HazRPG: its only a small part of gnome-shell, so its going to be massive, i am sure.
[17:41] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no ManGOS (or mangos as people usually write it)
[17:41] <HazRPG> its an open-sourced MMO server application, based originally on the WoW API's
[17:42] <screen-x> "mangos" is quite an ambiguous google term ;-)
[17:42] <screen-x> but it does get 2nd hit.
[17:42] <HazRPG> screen-x: http://getmangos.com/
[17:43] <screen-x> now I feel like eating a mango :)
[17:43] <HazRPG> I originally ran it for testing at one point for an Addon I was making for WoW
[17:43] <screen-x> <-- feels like eating quite frequently
[17:44] <HazRPG> plus I also wanted to make an MMO so was reading through the code for general ideas for the inner workings of a client/server of that scale
[17:44] <screen-x> how far did you get?
[17:44] <HazRPG> well mainly got the gist of how things worked... but well I don't have the time at the moment to actually build anything
[17:45] <HazRPG> I have an SVN on my home server with some tools, libraries and a template for the actual client/game engine... but that's as much as I did really
[17:45] <Twinkletoes> Can anyone tell me, what is hvc0, why it keeps temrinating and respawning, and what I can do about it?
[17:46] <popey> hypervisor doohdah?
[17:46] <popey> console
[17:46] <popey> is it a xen machine?
[17:46] <screen-x> sounds xenish to me
[17:46] <HazRPG> sounds like xen to me too
[17:46] <Twinkletoes> popey: It shouldn't be, I pay for a "dedicated" server from 1&1
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> you have .. a dedicated VM :P
[17:46] <HazRPG> yeah I was just about to say that haha
[17:47] <Twinkletoes> Hmm... well... that's one problem I have to sort out then... is there anything I can do to stop it?  Is it going to cause issues elsewhere?
[17:47] <HazRPG> its easier and quicker to deploy VM's - plus reduces maintenance and costs by doing it that way too
[17:48] <andylockran> how to grep multiple values - i.e. to pull out a conversation between two users on IRC...
[17:48] <shauno> Twinkletoes: if you cat /proc/cmdline, does it include console=hvc0  ?
[17:48] <andylockran> cat irc.log | grep andylockran & popey :)
[17:48] <screen-x> andylockran: egrep 'foo|bah'
[17:48] <andylockran> for example
[17:48] <andylockran> screen-x: ta
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: They could have given you a single vm on a piece of hardware
[17:48] <popey> UNNECESSARY USE OF CAT!
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: but to make later migration to virtual easier, made it a vm
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> just to keep their platform sane
[17:49] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: interesting idea
[17:49] <Twinkletoes> shauno: No hvc in /etc/cmdline, but it's specified in /etc/securetty and /etc/init/hvc0.conf
[17:49] <HazRPG> yeah it does sound like that
[17:49] <ging> popey: is that what the rspca said?
[17:49] <HazRPG> it also means that if anything goes wrong, they can get you back up and running faster
[17:49] <Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: That sounds plausible
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> it even sounds sane ;)
[17:49] <Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: I suppose then, hvc0 is there own way of getting in if I kill the server by accident
[17:49] <HazRPG> ;p
[17:52]  * Twinkletoes notes that hvc dies and respawns every 30 seconds!
[17:52] <HazRPG> Twinkletoes: Think about it this way, xen is just the main O/S they put on the system that barely does anything and (generally speaking) only uses very minute amount of resources, they just then assign all the remaining off to your O/S of choice. They'll have full access to the xen O/S via various methods, where-as you get full access to the O/S that's sat inside of it.
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> monitoring by $hosting_company
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ?
[17:53] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Yup - I understand, I'm happy with that, just not the message :)
[17:53] <HazRPG> Twinkletoes: what are you noticing exactly?
[17:54] <HazRPG> hang on... I missed something *scrolls up*
[17:54] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: daemon.log filling up every 30 seconds with 2 lines... one saying hvc0 has terminated with status 1, and ther other saying it's respwaning
[17:54] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: If it's not going to cause an issue I'll try and remember how to filter them out of the logs
[17:55] <shauno> hvc shouldn't be a process.  you're seeing getty complaining it can't attach to hvc and complaining it's respawning too fast?
[17:56] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: "init: hvc0 main process ended, respawning" and " init: hvc0 main process (<pid>) terminated with status 1"
[17:59] <HazRPG> trying to remember what hvc0 actually does :/
[17:59] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: do you have a getty running for hvc0?
[18:00] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: whats in /proc/cmdline ?
[18:00] <screen-x> (I think someone asked that already,but I dont remember seeing the reply)
[18:00] <Twinkletoes> screen-x: hvc0 is specified in /etc/securetty
[18:00] <Twinkletoes> screen-x: cmdline is:   root=/dev/md1 ro console=tty0 console=ttyS0,57600
[18:01] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: does hvc0 exist in /dev?
[18:01] <HazRPG> hmm, ps is to see the currently running process if I'm not mistaken, how bout running "ps aux | grep hvc0"
[18:01] <Twinkletoes> screen-x: Nowhere in /dev
[18:02] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: ps:  /sbin/getty -8 38400 hvc0
[18:04] <HazRPG> shauno: what is getty btw?
[18:04] <shauno> I'd probably enquire at 1&1 whether they're using a dom0 for terminal access, just in case you're missing something you need; and then just comment it out of securetty
[18:04] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: my xen vm has console=hvc0 in /proc/cmdline, but I'm not sure if you should add that in grub, or change hvc0 to tty0 in /etc
[18:05] <shauno> HazRPG: it attaches a login shell to character devices (serial lines, consoles, etc)
[18:05] <Twinkletoes> screen-x: now I know it's a Xen issue, I thin I should probably get in touch with 1&1 support.  Thanks for people's help
[18:06] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: sounds like a plan
[18:06] <Twinkletoes> ;)
[18:06] <HazRPG> Twinkletoes: by the sounds of things, it sounds like something isn't doing what it should be, either that or something has been changed somewhere that's playing up in the xen o/s
[18:07] <HazRPG> Twinkletoes: also, 1&1 should still be open for calls - give them a quick bell ;)
[18:07] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Ok - I'll see whta they say, thank you
[18:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Charter for Compassion - http://zrmt.com/article/view/charter-for-compassion-2
[18:07] <shauno> either that or it isn't sitting on xen, but their boilerplate install supports it
[18:08] <HazRPG> possibly
[18:09]  * brobostigon shakes his fist @ gtk3.
[18:10] <HazRPG> I wonder what 1&1 are like these days, been a long time since I was last with them
[18:10] <shauno> I still use them for shared hosting, but not dedi
[18:10] <screen-x> HazRPG: I used to use them for domain registration, but not any more, moved to gandi.net
[18:10] <Twinkletoes> Haha - the 1&1 dude didn't know - I don't think he even knew what a hypervisor was
[18:11] <HazRPG> heh, that's typical support dudes for ya
[18:11] <Twinkletoes> Oh well, he suggested I stick an email in.  I'm impatient, but I Can do that :)
[18:11] <HazRPG> is he transferring you over to someone who knows?
[18:11] <Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Nopes!
[18:11] <screen-x> Twinkletoes: http://xkcd.com/806/
[18:12] <HazRPG> screen-x: rofl, I was just about to google for that comic strip xD
[18:12] <Twinkletoes> Funny :)
[18:12]  * screen-x tries not to memorise the numbers 
[18:13] <HazRPG> heh I don't memorise them, I usually just google for the title (or something that was in it)
[18:13] <Twinkletoes> Shibboleet
[18:13]  * Twinkletoes waits for a new IR Cchannel to open up
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
[18:14]  * Twinkletoes now feels dumb
[18:20] <Azelphur> I just spoke to intel regarding my overheating i7, http://pastebin.com/7uZqDhcP :)
[18:21] <Azelphur> I idle at 40-60C, Encoding a DVD with multithreading on takes me to 75C, Encoding 8 DVDs at the same time takes me to 94C
[18:21] <Azelphur> Reasonable to assume I applied the stock cooler correctly, and need to get some better cooling in there?
[18:22] <andylockran> wow
[18:22] <andylockran> that's awesome
[18:22] <Azelphur> yea, the reply from intel live chat is good :D
[18:22] <andylockran> Azelphur: yeah, I'd add some cooling
[18:22] <screen-x> Azelphur: ouch, just checked TCase for my i7-860, which is 72, I had it up to 90 the other day :(
[18:23] <Azelphur> haha
[18:23] <screen-x> This is a stock workstation straight from supplier.
[18:23] <screen-x> (pre assembled)
[18:24] <popey> Azelphur: nice chat session there
[18:24] <popey> or rather copy/paste from her :D
[18:24] <Azelphur> popey: indeed, I was quite impressed on the good information she had to hand :D
[18:24] <popey> yeah, expert systems ftw (sometimes)
[18:25] <Azelphur> I designed the machine with the idea of adding water cooling later and overclocking anyway
[18:25] <Azelphur> so I'll just have to get on with it :)
[18:25] <screen-x> Azelphur: submerse it in oil ;-)
[18:26] <Azelphur> screen-x: haha, normal water cooling with pipes is better
[18:26] <Azelphur> I did get very tempted by the oil route, it is awesome :D
[18:26] <popey> TOOBS!
[18:26] <Azelphur> indeed, toobs \o/
[18:27] <screen-x> I wonder if there are any wacky species of fish that can survive in oil, that would be cool.
[18:27] <screen-x> popey: just like the internets
[18:27]  * popey expects we will see kaushal arrive shortly
[18:28] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-February/240350.html
[18:28] <screen-x> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071118193955AAYuVl2
[18:28] <czajkowski> lol
[18:28] <czajkowski> right home time
[18:28] <Azelphur> screen-x: hahaha
[18:29] <czajkowski> left over chinese food awaits and I'm starving
[18:29] <czajkowski> toodles
[18:29] <popey> \o/ home time
[18:29] <popey> oooo chinese food
[18:29] <andylockran> screen-x: get some fish from the gulf
[18:29] <andylockran> some of them can survive in oil
[18:29] <czajkowski> popey: aye found a decent one in Aldershot, massive sizes. one dinner does 2 days
[18:29] <popey> haha, which one?
[18:29] <popey> TELL ME!
[18:30]  * screen-x goes home
[18:30] <czajkowski> I've no idea, I know how to get to it; up te road from the Queen vic  beside a pizza place but not dominos
[18:30] <czajkowski> also is there some law in the UK, there has to be at least one pub in every town called the Queen vic!
[18:30] <czajkowski> seriously!
[18:31] <popey> :)
[18:31] <czajkowski> <---- *poof* Gone
[18:38] <HazRPG> czajkowski: I don't think we have a queen vic here...
[18:46] <shauno> phew.  home at last.
[18:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: everyone want to be peggy mitchell or the boys :D
[18:50] <shauno> nah, I think it's older than that
[18:52] <shauno> but then most the towns I've lived in 'exploded' during late industrial / victorian era]
[18:55] <davmor2> shauno: I might of been joking honest :D
[18:55] <shauno> I didn't think it was a serious conversation :)
[18:56] <shauno> but it does feel like pubs all use the same name generator, which munges together a list of royalty / aristocracy / animals & plants, and spews forth
[18:57] <shauno> you're usually guaranteed at least one monarch & a duke of something
[18:58] <popey> The Cricketers
[19:00] <davmor2> popey: where's the Duke of The Cricketers?
[19:06] <HazRPG> shauno: wow, liam was quick to change his mind ^^
[19:07] <shauno> this tends to happen when you re-read things a few days later.  I wouldn't worry about it :)
[19:07] <HazRPG> indeed
[19:08] <HazRPG> all depends on what mood you were in at the time
[19:09] <HazRPG> anyone else notice gmail had a UI change recently?
[19:09] <shauno> actually just trying to 'fix' gmail atm :(
[19:09] <HazRPG> doesn't appear to be the same for all my accounts though... so I was wonder if others had noticed it too
[19:09] <HazRPG> shauno: anything I can help with?
[19:10] <shauno> I tried to unsubscribe from u-uk so I could resub with a different address
[19:10] <shauno> stupidly, I clicked the 'unsubscribe from this list' link gmail puts in the details, thinking it'd take me to the mailman address in the mail headers
[19:10] <shauno> it didn't; it sent an unsubscribe to -request  (from the wrong address.  bah)
[19:11] <HazRPG> heh
[19:11] <shauno> it's apparently done something else in it's bid to be clever, because I'm now not seeing messages sent to the resub'd address
[19:11] <shauno> they're not under the label they used to be; the filter that used to send them there is gone.  there's now no matching label; they're not in Spam or Inbox
[19:12] <HazRPG> I would have just changed the e-mail address in mailman rather then doing all that
[19:12] <HazRPG> try "all mail"
[19:12] <shauno> that was mostly the plan, I just discounted how much thought they'd put into their unsub link
[19:12] <HazRPG> or "ubuntu-uk" in:"All Mail"
[19:12] <shauno> they don't show up if I search for ubuntu-uk
[19:13] <shauno> not in spam, not in trash, nadda
[19:13] <shauno> if I couldn't see them being forwarded in postfix's logs, I'd doubt they were even being sent at all
[19:13] <HazRPG> sorry wrong format
[19:13] <HazRPG> ubuntu-uk in:all
[19:13] <HazRPG> try that
[19:13] <HazRPG> oh
[19:14] <shauno> same result, shows last mail to the list being the unsub result at 7am
[19:14] <shauno> I know there's been more since then, because I see them on my phone
[19:15] <HazRPG> if they're showing up on your phone, what label are they placed in? Or is your phone only showing you the cached stuff?
[19:15] <shauno> my phone doesn't use gmail
[19:15] <HazRPG> oh
[19:15] <shauno> I receive to my server, and forward to gmail from there
[19:16] <shauno> so my clients use imap off my server, but I still have gmail as a huge searchable & work-friendly frontend
[19:18] <HazRPG> hmm
[19:18] <HazRPG> I'm lost now lol
[19:18] <HazRPG> shauno: I understand the whole server grabs mail and forwards thing
[19:19] <HazRPG> so I'm guessing your server still has the old mail in there
[19:19] <HazRPG> clicking the unsubscribe button has cleared all the mail for your gmail?
[19:19] <HazRPG> along with filters and labels?
[19:20] <shauno> the label's still there.  the filter isn't
[19:21] <shauno> and hasn't been replaced with a new one, that I can see
[19:22] <HazRPG> oh so you did the "filter messages from this mailing list" thing
[19:22] <shauno> oh, there never was a filter. looks like I just matched list.ubuntu.com, which still stands
[19:23] <HazRPG> :P
[19:23] <shauno> just tried to subscribe my gmail address to see if I could 'unstuck' it, but the confirmation disappears too
[19:23] <HazRPG> mine has this... Has the words: list:"ubuntu-uk.lists.ubuntu.com"
[19:24] <HazRPG> random
[19:27] <shauno> and this is why I like to treat webmail as a convenience instead of a solution :)
[19:27] <HazRPG> :P
[19:30] <dwatkins> shauno: you mean your mail got deleted?
[19:31] <shauno> existing mail didn't; anything I received since I sent the unsub request appears to
[19:32] <shauno> not sure delete's even the right word.  there's a black hole somewhere
[19:33] <shauno> I have a filter in gmail that copies anything sent specifically to my gmail address, to an external address
[19:33] <shauno> when I tried to subscribe my gmail address to unstick it, that showed up at the external address (so gmail saw & forwarded it), but I can't find it in the web UI
[19:34] <jacobw> hows it going with the mail server shauno
[19:34] <dwatkins> ah I see, shauno - there should be archives of the list, at least
[19:34] <shauno> (yes, my email is a mess of filters.  trying to copy things to/from gmail without creating loops :)
[19:35] <shauno> jacobw: I think I'm about done replacing my old host.  just waiting for some scheduled downtime this weekend before I transfers domains
[19:37] <jacobw> :)
[19:37] <jacobw> can you point towards some resources on how to set up a mail server? i'm considering setting one up for a small business
[19:37] <shauno> 1&1 are being buttheads about having a non-US address on the account.  so I'm deserting.  moving my mail is turning out to be the messy side
[19:38] <shauno> as dull as it sounds, I've mostly been going by the ubuntu server guide, and ubuntu wiki
[19:39] <shauno> I had most of this up and running about 10 years ago, which helps, but stuff like SPF and domainkeys is new to me
[19:40] <shauno> the server guide pretty much holds your hand thru getting postfix/dovecot/sasl to play nicely.  opendkim is nicely covered on the wiki, and openspf.org document sender policies nicely
[19:41] <jacobw> that sounds good :) i want to learn all these things to futher my skills in .. cool stuff
[19:41] <shauno> my main headache has been procmail, which is entirely optional.  but most the docs for it are rather dated
[19:44] <shauno> I think as convoluted as email is, it's all well documented.  put the real effort into understanding dns, because email falls apart at the seems without it
[19:52] <jacobw> i've heard that DNS causes strange issues in most services
[19:53] <Myrtti> to kebab or not to kebab, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the tummy to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous hunger, or to take arms against subzero temperatures, and by opposing them end them?
[19:53] <jacobw> ergh
[19:54] <jacobw> eat some fruit/vegetables instead
[19:54] <Myrtti> good idea, but I've not been at my apartment for over a week now, I've got light and mustard in my fridge and shops are closed
[19:54] <Myrtti> Finnish kebabs actually have a lot of salad in them
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: because animals won't go into Finland?
[19:55] <Myrtti> we've got plenty of elks and reindeers
[20:05] <KrimZon> animals go into Finland 52 times with a remainder of llama.
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> KrimZon: you sound like the people on
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/vxjunkies
[20:08] <shauno> sort-of sensible question.  why are the dutch so well represented online?
[20:08] <ali1234> don't all the UK<->EU links go through NL?
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: lots of them do]
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: AMS-IX \o/
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: also, we just rock :)
[20:09] <shauno> it seems more cultural.  I wouldn't think that affects ordinary subscribers
[20:10] <shauno> but, eg; you've got what, roughly 50% more population than belgium.  I've never met a .be online
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> shauno: NL has always been relatively "rich" as a country, also our first consumer ISP started in '93
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> shauno: knightwise is Belgian, he hangs around in here sometimes
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and FOSDEM is in Belgium
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> lots of Belgians there
[20:10] <shauno> heh, I imagine
[20:11] <shauno> genuinely curious why it seems so imbalanced tho
[20:11] <shauno> I wonder if the belgians lean towards more franco-centric communities
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> shauno: the "we started in '93" bit might have something to do with it, really
[20:12] <shauno> I'm not sure it's wealth alone.  I know more russians online than belgians
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> Also, English<->Dutch connections have always been strong (we make fun of the Germans, but the eastern part of the Netherlands is actually quite good friends with them ;))
[20:12] <shauno> (not sure why I'm picking on belgium, just the only comparable populace that springs to mind)
[20:12] <ali1234> i remember belnet.be from early days online...
[20:13] <shauno> I could probably use ireland just as easily.  you guys just seem to bat above your weight :)
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: xs4all.nl = my employer ;)
[20:13] <ali1234> i would say belgium is quite well represented online
[20:13] <ali1234> yeah, i remember them too
[20:14] <Adriannom> i have 3 hds in a raidx nas that will no longer boot.  any ideas how i could recover the data?
[20:15] <Adriannom> would a usb caddy work?
[20:15] <shauno> alternatively, I wonder if it's just a dutch obsession with letting people know they're dutch ;)
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: how do you know if someone is a vegetarian?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: (don't worry, they'll tell you)
[20:15] <shauno> funny, I hear exactly the same joke about pilots :)
[20:17] <ali1234> Adriannom: it's a start. you'll have to look at the disks to see how they are formatted
[20:17] <ali1234> usb caddy will definitely "work" but you might need custom software to recover the data
[20:18] <shauno> my only (generalized) hint would be to make liberal use of the 'ro' mount flag.
[20:19] <daubers> Adriannom: What kind of raid was it?
[20:21] <Adriannom> um... x-raid, apparently
[20:21] <Adriannom> trying to find out right now
[20:22] <popey> whats that?
[20:22] <popey> ah netgear readynas?
[20:22] <Adriannom> yup
[20:22] <Adriannom> nv+
[20:23] <daubers> Adriannom: You might struggle, as you may not be able to piece the RAID together again to get at the data
[20:23] <popey> http://www.readynas.com/forum/faq.php#Will_NETGEAR_provide_data_recovery_service_if_needed%3F
[20:23] <popey> :)
[20:23] <Adriannom> popey, i'm hoping that it won't cost, after all i believe none of the data is damaged
[20:24] <popey> what is the issue then?
[20:24] <Adriannom> the unit won't boot and i don't have another
[20:24] <popey> borrow one/
[20:24] <popey> ?
[20:24] <ali1234> i'll recover your data for half what netgear charge
[20:24] <Adriannom> hmm... good suggestion but i don't think i can
[20:25] <Adriannom> thanks ali1234 ;)
[20:25] <popey> looks like the readynas will format it ext3
[20:26] <Adriannom> looks like software raid, which should make it easier right?
[20:26] <ali1234> doesn't make much difference
[20:26] <daubers> Adriannom: Try it and see. If it's just ext3 with something pushing files over disks you might be lucky
[20:26] <ali1234> just look at the raw disks and figure out if/how it is striped, and then rebuild it
[20:27] <Adriannom> ok
[20:27] <Adriannom> thanks a lot guys :)
[20:28] <HazRPG> is there an advantage to making a DNS server for my house?
[20:28] <ali1234> looks like you have to configure what type of raid you want?
[20:28] <Adriannom> ali1234, i believe it's x-raid by default
[20:28] <Adriannom> whatever that is
[20:28] <daubers> A lot of these things I've looked at seem to be a thing at the sharing level just placing given files on given devices with some parity on another disk
[20:28] <popey> thats just their proprietary name for whatever it is
[20:28] <mgdm> HazRPG: I had one so I could have internal DNS names for some machines, and a local caching DNS server for when the upstream was being flaky
[20:28] <Adriannom> http://www.readynas.com/?cat=54
[20:28] <ali1234> "Volume management is automatic. Add a 2nd disk, it becomes a mirror to  the first, providing protection from a disk failure; add a 3rd, the  capacity doubles"
[20:29] <ali1234> so you can infer from that what it is doing, i guess
[20:29] <popey> "» What file system does ReadyNAS use? Can I read a disk from ReadyNAS on other machines?
[20:29] <popey> The ReadyNAS uses Linux Ext2/Ext3 file system. A typical Linux distro can mount and access the data from the disks."
[20:29] <Adriannom> cool
[20:30] <Adriannom> now i know where i am with it i'm sure i'll be fine
[20:30]  * daubers wants to build a block level RAID driver as a learning platfor
[20:30] <daubers> m
[20:30] <HazRPG> mgdm: cool
[20:30] <mgdm> HazRPG: http://mgdm.net/weblog/the-linksys-nslu2-part-one describes my setup
[20:30] <mgdm> HazRPG: the dnsmasq bits are what you're interested in
[20:31] <Adriannom> damn the thing for breaking in the first place though ;o
[20:34] <HazRPG> mgdm: thanks :)
[20:35] <shauno> daubers: if you need targets, you'd be deified for a free drobo-esque implementation ;)
[20:36] <popey> heh
[20:37] <ikonia> my rage is strong....who will dare top push me
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: what's up?
[20:38] <ikonia> "to"
[20:38] <ikonia> it's actually nothing of any significance,
[20:39] <ikonia> I've just took my macbook pro to bits to swap the hard disk, to discover the last two screws are torx T6 (??) and the smallest I have is torx T10
[20:39] <ikonia> and home base that is 1 mile away is closed !
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> ah, that's annoying
[20:39] <popey> use a small flat head
[20:40] <ikonia> popey: don't have one that fits good enough
[20:40] <ikonia> popey: tried about 10
[20:40] <ikonia> I feel the gods are mocking me
[20:40] <popey> maplin?
[20:40] <popey> they have a kit for taking apart video consoles
[20:40] <shauno> at 9pm?
[20:40] <popey> it has the right ones
[20:40] <popey> ah
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> have you tried an American screwdriver?
[20:40] <ikonia> as a kick in the teeth homebase where I could get the missing item now is open until 9:00pm tomorrow, but shut's at 8:00 tonight
[20:41] <shauno> that T6 is the only torx I own.  I had similar rawr when I discovered it too
[20:41] <ikonia> I can get one tomorrow, but it means I've left a job half done, have to lock the cat out of the room and can't go through my music recording stuff tonight
[20:41] <ikonia> just annoying
[20:41] <ikonia> shauno: I had one from when I had my macbook, but I can't find it
[20:42] <shauno> you can 'undo' it pretty easily.  the machine will work fine as long as the keyboard cable is hooked up, and that part of the case is grounded to the rest  (assuming it's not unibody)
[20:43] <shauno> eg, you don't need to put it back together to run it.  just wire her up
[20:43] <ikonia> shauno: got all the screws laid out for going back in, not going to mess with it
[20:43] <shauno> (it will run without the keyboard connected, but the fans will run 100%, which gets annoying)
[20:43] <ali1234> I have T-5H thru T-40H right here :)
[20:43] <shauno> that's what I mean.  mine's in a similar position.  the screws are lined up on a bit of sticky tape, and have been for a few weeks now
[20:43] <ikonia> will someone who has a T6 please drive an unreasonable ammount of files to give it to me
[20:44] <ikonia> files ??? miles
[20:44] <shauno> (mine has a dodgy lvds cable.  I pull the case off to abuse it whenever I need stress relief)
[20:44] <ikonia> I'm just swapping the hard disk out
[20:44] <ikonia> I've been looking forward to using it all day
[20:48] <popey> you can borrow one of mine :)
[20:49] <ikonia> great, please drive approx 80 miles and give it to me
[20:50] <ikonia> popey: what time shall I expect you ?
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: have you tried asking your neighbors?
[20:51] <popey> :)
[20:53] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: stupid diy bums have nothing but standard stuff
[21:03] <daubers> shauno: Unfortnatley, if I did that it would be owned by work :(
[21:03] <shauno> luckily you work with freedom-loving hippies who'd see the community value?
[21:04] <shauno> is a shame.  someone needs to come close to drobo, and it'd be handy if it was someone who wanted to :)
[21:05] <daubers> Hmm.... in this instance probably not
[21:08] <daubers> shauno: I'm almost certain that the performance of a drobo-esque system would be pants anyway
[21:22] <ikonia> screws out, my rage is reduced
[21:23] <daubers> Bah, designing processes around peoples workflow is annying
[21:27] <shauno> designing anything around humans is a pain.  no-one ever spec'd them properly
[21:28] <shauno> I've worked 5 christmases in a row.  and every one a waste because things didn't break when people are too busy to break them
[21:32] <ikonia> NOoooooooooooooo apple, why do you mock me
[21:33] <popey> heh
[21:33] <popey> wassup now?
[21:33] <ikonia> the manual says unhook the two philips screws holding the drive in place, they are torx screws, but even smaller than a T6
[21:33] <popey> which mbp is this!?
[21:33] <ikonia> 17'' 2009
[21:33] <popey> evil
[21:34] <ikonia> if you had told the truth I would be prepared
[21:34] <ikonia> why are you mocking me apple, why do you lie in your manual
[21:34] <popey> I think he's flipped
[21:35] <ikonia> my mbp is in bits and I am two screws away from done
[21:35] <ikonia> I've probably wrecked it in the process.....this is gutting
[21:36] <ikonia> why do you lie apple !!!
[21:36] <popey> fwiw the 2010 MBP manual was 100% accurate
[21:36] <popey> HTH HAND
[21:38]  * jacobw wraps a blanket round ikonia
[21:38] <jacobw> there there..
[21:38] <jacobw> msi wind u135dx, what OS?
[21:38] <ikonia> thanks for that
[21:38]  * ikonia fumes
[21:41] <daubers> Sometimes it's useful working in an office where you have every kind of screwdriver known to man at hand
[21:41] <ikonia> agreed
[21:42] <daubers> We even have a magic tool that lets you take molex adapters of various forms apart
[21:42] <daubers> Massivley helpful in getting rid of stupid floppy power adapters on some supplies to tidy cables
[21:43] <mgdm> nifty
[21:43] <ikonia> is this wasn't an ubuntu channel, my language would be through the roof at this time
[21:44] <popey> :)
[21:44] <mgdm> I've occasionally want a tool that could extract molex power connectors from drives of various forms - helpfully they've just obsoleted the flaming thing
[21:50] <daubers> mgdm: Sadly not :(
[21:50] <daubers> mgdm: Also, that tool is called "Needle nose pliers"
[21:50] <daubers> Or in my case "Mike" as he's a lot more patient than me
[21:50] <mgdm> hehehe
[21:56]  * bigcalm pokes nickserv
[22:52] <hamitron> \o/
[22:54] <hamitron> I just got all excited about a cheap AMD Phenom II X4... to find they've started re-badging Athlon II under that name :/
[22:56] <popey> hi hamitron
[22:56] <popey> did you remove the lava from your mountain thing?
[22:56] <popey> all the fire was gone from inside too :(
[22:56] <hamitron> inside?
[22:57] <popey> yeah, there was flames inside wasnt there?
[22:57] <popey> oh, the new server version
[22:57] <popey> flames go ut
[22:57] <popey> *out
[22:57] <hamitron> I feel like sulking about my volcano btw
[22:57] <popey> :(
[22:57] <hamitron> someone stole 2 buckets of lava
[22:57] <hamitron> ;/
[22:57] <popey> from the top?
[22:57] <hamitron> no
[22:57] <hamitron> I removed that
[22:57] <popey> ah
[22:57] <hamitron> from my chest
[22:58] <popey> didnt know there was a chest there
[22:58] <hamitron> in my home
[22:58] <hamitron> :)
[22:58] <hamitron> but I need 4 buckets of lava, for 4 volcano
[22:58] <hamitron> ;)
[22:58] <popey> heh
[22:58] <hamitron> was 1 short, now 3
[22:58] <popey> :(
[22:59] <hamitron> guess I will have to get new armor and go on a rampage
[22:59] <hamitron> journey to the centre of the earth
[22:59] <ikonia> phew, hard disk migration complete
[22:59] <ikonia> sloppy job
[22:59] <hamitron> :)
[22:59] <popey> heh
[23:01] <hamitron> I think I may continue the building now
[23:02] <hamitron> popey: I hope the lava went to some good use
[23:02] <hamitron> like, forging loads of iron
[23:03] <popey> heh, i have no idea!
[23:03] <hamitron> omfg
[23:03] <hamitron> there is a hole in my volcano
[23:03] <hamitron> !!!!!!!!
[23:04] <popey> lol
[23:13] <hamitron> so what happened to the fires inside pops?
[23:13] <hamitron> !ping popey
[23:14] <popey> hmm?
[23:14] <hamitron> I had loads of fires around the volcano inside
[23:14] <popey> yes
[23:14] <popey> i think they went out with the server upgrade today
[23:14] <popey> apparently wood doesnt burn for ever now
[23:14] <hamitron> will they return?
[23:14] <popey> no
[23:14] <hamitron> ah ffs
[23:14] <popey> its a new server thing
[23:15] <hamitron> so now my fireplace in the pool is useless
[23:15] <hamitron> ;)
[23:15] <popey> awww :( you need a lava fireplace
[23:15] <popey> oh, forgot about your underground lair
[23:15] <hamitron> shame someone stole my buckets of lava...
[23:15] <hamitron> ;)
[23:15] <popey> :(
[23:16]  * hamitron shakes fist
[23:16] <hamitron> hehe
[23:16] <popey> hehe
[23:17] <hamitron> or....
[23:17] <hamitron> could have a pile of logs to light the fire when needed
[23:20] <hamitron> at least burning trees won't be an issue now
[23:20] <popey> or "trees" as they're known
[23:20] <popey> yeah
[23:20] <popey> maybe that big area on fire will go out
[23:20] <dutchie> it has already, partly
[23:20] <dutchie> mostly now, probably
[23:20] <hamitron> the volcano kept lighting the trees once they grew big enough
[23:21] <popey> :D
[23:21] <hamitron> I actually spent an hour removing the burning trees, so it looked better
[23:21] <hamitron> and now there is a patch :/
[23:22] <dutchie> you'd still have had to remove them, they just go out and stay put now
[23:22] <hamitron> oh, my burning fires have no wood...
[23:24]  * popey invites hamitron to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
[23:25] <hamitron> such a long name to type
[23:26] <hamitron> is that room to remove the people like me from here? ;)