[07:52] ok! can anyone tell me again why there's upstart and not the usual startup scripts? [08:03] hi there, can anyone tell me where the upstart scripts are located? [08:06] okie found it [08:06] thanks! [14:32] howdy! [14:32] I'm trying to write an upstart script that needs user interaction [14:33] it should run after network is up and before any user can log in [14:34] so the parallel upstart boot process should wait until this script has finished [14:34] I haven't found much on this topic [14:42] ralfgro_: requiring user input during boot is a bad idea [14:44] Interface with plymouth. Its job is to multiplex user interaction for processes. [14:45] well, the problem is that not all system are running a DM [14:45] we want to update clients during the boot process [14:46] but the user has the option to say no [14:46] that'S the policy, user can discard updates one time [14:47] and we don't have simple laptops or desktops [14:47] some systems can't be updated after the have bootet [14:47] so we need a way to do it right after network is up [14:48] it's getting worse, it has to work with old sysvinit (lenny), insserv (squeeze) and upstart (ubuntu) [14:49] sysvinit/insserv is basically the same [14:49] but at the moment I'm trying to find out how it could be done with upstart [14:51] I haven't found a way to write an upstart script that simply halts the boot process. I know that's not the goal of upstart, but is this possible? [14:51] ralfgro_: you can ship a sysvinit/LSB script [14:51] upstart still supports sysv init scripts [14:53] do you have a link for this? [14:53] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ [14:53] was not very helpful [14:54] ralfgro_: if you want to run it before a user can login you have a problem [14:54] because the gdm init script triggers on the filesystem and dbus events [14:55] I've seen that in the dgm/kdm scripts [14:56] you could block dbus from starting [14:56] by writing a job that has "start on starting dbus" [14:56] can I emit something from an sysv scrip? [14:56] Or just block gdm by ‘start on starting gdm’ [14:56] sure [14:56] then I could add that to the start on ... part [14:57] ion: he would also need to block the gettys [14:57] and gdm is started rather late during boot [14:57] so a lot of services are already running [14:57] I begin to think it was not the best idea to do updates while booting [14:58] ion: does gdm respect /etc/nologin? [14:58] dunno [14:58] in fedora i would use something like 'start on starting start-ttys, console owner, task' [14:58] (looking at /etc/pam.d/nologin, it should) [14:59] /etc/pam.d/gdm, I meand [14:59] kdm: auth required pam_nologin.so [14:59] ralfgro_: creating a file /etc/nologin should then prevent users from being able to login [15:00] hm, but if gdm is started they don't see the dialog [15:00] Update now: y/n.... [15:01] this is getting complicated [15:01] ralfgro_: why don't you use the regular update mechanisms [15:01] we use puppet for regular desktops/laptops [15:01] so? [15:01] but we have a lot of systems that can only be updataes before they are running [15:01] example? [15:02] so the people that use these systems needed a special solution [15:02] some systems are build in cars [15:02] most of the time they are only reachable by net during boot up [15:03] others start calculations and can't be updated during normal run time [15:03] so need a solution that works for them [15:04] so if the system is up and running it is cut of the network? [15:04] probably [15:05] I'd change my deployment to use something like fai or d-i preseeding to have up-to-date systems after installation [15:05] the biggest chance is during boot tiem [15:05] we install our systems with dai [15:05] fai [15:05] but we can't use softupdates to keep them up to date [15:06] it is very complicated here, everything is a moving target [15:06] after install, the systems are modified from the users (yes they have roo). and yes, it's a nightmare [15:07] anyway, we have to find a way to install security updates [15:07] I'd try the nologin + start on starting gdm approach then [15:07] desktops/laptops get them triggered by puppert at 4am [15:07] (although it is not pretty) [15:08] ok, I'll have a look into that [15:08] you probably need "console owner" [15:08] if you use want to prompt via a shell script [15:09] Better to use plymouth. [15:09] if they use it, yeah [15:10] on ubuntu yes, ii plymouth 0.8.2-2ubuntu2.2 [15:10] but not on debian AFAIR [15:11] the goal should be somethin that runs on both [15:11] it is not mandatory, but installable [15:12] maybe it would be better and easier to start something right after the user logged in with *GM or console [15:12] **DM [15:12] ralfgro_: it should be easier on Debian as the boot process is still linear [15:13] sure, you can use a desktop autostart file for that [15:15] ralfgro_: just run apt-get update during boot [15:15] update-manager should automatically prompt you if there are new updates availabe [15:16] we don't want to use update-manager [15:16] we need some more logging [15:16] like /var/log/dpkg.log ? [15:17] so we will start our own script, if the user decides to install updates on his own, that's fine. but we can't relay on that [15:17] so the user can start update-manager, but we trigger our own script [15:18] I still don't understand why you want to cook up your own solution, but ok [15:18] as I wrote above, the user have root right. which is needed because the clients are development machines etc. [15:18] so sometime they change the sources.list [15:19] i don't see a problem here [15:19] because they don't have access to our network when the are abroud [15:20] prompting during boot doesn't solve that problem [15:20] but these sources are not reachable from the company network when they are back [15:21] in the script we use differnt sources lists witch are fixed [15:21] but trust me, it's compicated and we just try to do what is possible in this environment [15:22] thanks for the pointers so far [16:02] why not have a sources list with a hostname that always resolves to a working IP depending on whether you are inside or outside the company LAN?