[05:24] <troy_s> vish: Updates?
[05:31] <vish> troy_s: hey.. i was going to propose an alternative way (for the artworkteam to exist) to all these contests and to rather move to an artist-portfolio kinda thing,
[05:31] <troy_s> vish: Amen.
[05:31] <vish> troy_s: so that instead of having contests or something, artists interested in helping Ubuntu or sister distros would just upload their work and the team that liked what they say , could just contact the artist and work with them .. but thorwil convinced me it would be a waste of time for the current group there ;)
[05:32] <troy_s> vish: Been a ponderin' something like that as well really. Have been for a long time.
[05:32] <vish> troy_s: well, right now, i see no hope for the team
[05:33] <vish> troy_s: after thorwil quit, i dont see any art types who are still there..
[05:33] <troy_s> vish: It would basically require a sort of standardized portfolio place. I'd think the benefits would be very significant. (1) You weed out those that have zip for portfolio / work. (2) It should be about the work first and foremost, and the inherent qualities / traits of the individual.
[05:33] <vish> troy_s: or interested in putting work there..
[05:33] <vish> troy_s: yup..
[05:34] <vish> troy_s: the team needs someone to lead, and i dont think anyone(competent) is right now willing to ;)
[05:35] <troy_s> vish: You will get the groove. I'd think there is much to be learnt from seeing things not working.
[05:35] <troy_s> vish: It is certainly full of education.
[05:36] <troy_s> vish: I'd also hope that it isn't just you and others that see it. Maybe it helps if more see it.
[05:36] <vish> troy_s: currently the team over there does not get one main point, it is not possible to show your talent on the main Ubuntu distro.. if someone is interested in making it to Ubuntu, they first need to make their way through the sister distros..
[05:36] <troy_s> vish: That, in turn, should be of a benefit to a community. Hell... how much useful information came up in that Libre Office thread regarding contests and how much of a failure they were from people on the inside?
[05:37] <vish> yea..
[05:37] <troy_s> vish: I'd think that Ubuntu or otherwise is a waste of time.
[05:37] <vish> yep..
[05:37] <troy_s> vish: It should be a cauldron of creativity. A culture. And that will take more thought and work than worrying about some half baked wallpaper or 22 pixel Tango mess.
[05:38] <vish> troy_s: well, we cant fully blame the developers , they have been accustomed to contests and its what they've seen work successfully..   "successfully" as in some result or the other. not necessary how the result is ;)
[05:39] <troy_s> vish: I'm not blaming anyone. I'd only blame someone that _should_ know better for promoting them. I can pretty much dismantle them on at least three fronts. 1) It builds nothing of a foundation. 2) The work is historically and typically crufty. 3) It fights against vision.
[05:39] <troy_s> vish: On those three simple points alone it is arguable their worth. Number (1) being a tremendous issue here.
[05:39] <vish> troy_s: nah, i dint mean you were blaming :)
[05:41] <troy_s> vish: I'll be interested to see what comes out of this slow grind to nothingness.
[05:42] <vish> troy_s: thorwil says the same,  "Ubuntu or otherwise is a waste of time."  but right now, Ubuntu is kinda the drawing factor to FOSS for a lot of new free culture loving artists.. we could use _that_ properly
[05:42] <vish> focus/direct the new folks to form something that would work..
[05:43] <troy_s> vish: Depends I suppose. It is assuming it actually attracts a creative culture at all, which I firmly believe is a misnomer.
[05:43] <troy_s> vish: There isn't anything there to warrant it.
[05:43] <vish> yea, its tough to gauge
[05:44] <troy_s> vish: I mean I have met two BFa's off of the old mailing list. One I maintain touch with and we discuss things quite often. He's a very talented fellow.
[05:44] <troy_s> vish: But the cultivation factor I worry about.
[05:47] <troy_s> vish: But it's pretty tricky stuff. The good news is that we can clearly see more than a few things that _don't_ appear to work. Or at least, pursing certain paths further is borderline lunacy.
[05:47] <vish> heh ;)
[10:16] <thorwil> good morning!
[16:29]  * darkmatter waves hello to coz_
[16:29] <coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy
[16:31] <darkmatter> coz_: I was looking through my 'inspirations' last night and went on a total awesome gear grind. I also fell in love again with an old friend: PEKWM! :D
[16:31] <coz_> :)
[16:33] <coz_> darkmatter,  looking at video for pekwm... nice
[16:33] <coz_> drag and drop to title bar
[16:33] <coz_> grouped windows
[16:33] <darkmatter> coz_: transpaency without compositing, check; REALLY nice wm features, ckeck, etc etc
[16:34] <coz_> darkmatter,  that grouping of windows by drag and drop title bar is way too nice :)
[16:34] <coz_> darkmatter,  i wonder if we can do that compiz?  I will have to ask sam
[16:34] <coz_> although we sort of have it
[16:35] <darkmatter> coz_: it's come a _long_ way. toss in built in compositing (or support for compiz bits) plus non manual edit config, would make a nice base for a wm for an environment *forks* xD
[16:36] <coz_> mmm
[16:36] <darkmatter> coz_: it's also fully scriptable. lol. you can "call" windows from workspaces. etc
[16:36] <darkmatter> clock/calendar/whatever in menus. all kinds of silliness
[16:38] <darkmatter> coz_: and just to sell it.it has a theme composed of little. yellow. TABS! ;D
[16:39] <coz_> :)
[16:39] <coz_> ah oh
[16:39] <coz_> well ,, I cant abandon compiz...  I have been there too long and have seen too may leave
[16:39] <coz_> :)
[16:43] <coz_> darkmatter,  plus I dont want to see ccsm icons revert back to those really ugly blue ones :)
[16:43] <coz_> darkmatter,  cannot have another developer do icons again :)
[16:45] <darkmatter> coz_: not saying you do. just saying we _need_ something compiz oriented (as in"not a decorator") that is light/powerful. just saying I was inspired
[16:45] <coz_> darkmatter,  ah ok now I understand  :)  yes that would absolutely cool...I actually would leave compiz for something better :)
[16:46] <darkmatter> real wm that uses compiz features instead of compiz trying to be a wm :P
[16:47] <coz_> darkmatter,  yeah  .. although the c++ version is much snappier,,, but I do see your point :)
[16:51] <coz_> darkmatter,  also ,,, as soon as natty comes out,,, it blew up on me yesterday,,:)   I am going to rethink trying elementary again... not convinced about the mac-alike  but  viewing some new screenshots   have interested me again... and i saw a page for  purchasing something about elementary.. not sure what that was about
[16:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh yeah    http://elementaryos.org/   that's what I saw
[16:55] <darkmatter> coz_: yeah. I'm not big on the "copy designs and other look/feel basics from mac due to a lack of better ideas and/or experience" (mainly the latter is the cause, most of them are still in diapers, lol. ;p), but overall it's fairly nice
[16:56] <coz_> darkmatter,  and apparenlty jupiter release in march is for pay?
[16:56] <darkmatter> I think some of the decisions are silliness, but whatever. overall effort is valid and worth "playing with" at the very least
[16:56] <coz_> unless I am misinterpreting that link  http://elementaryos.org/
[16:57] <coz_> $10.00   ???
[16:57] <darkmatter> coz_: dunno. I think the "preorder" is like with ubuntu. reseve yer copy stuff. if it is pay-for I'll laugh my ..... oh.lol
[16:57] <coz_> ah ok
[16:58] <coz_> darkmatter,  mm would like to try "Purple"  dictionary from them but I have lucid installed ,,,damn :)
[16:58] <darkmatter> coz_its worth 'playing' with. some of the apps are/will be worth using, others are fail
[16:59] <darkmatter> yeah. purple is nice
[16:59] <coz_> darkmatter,  yeah .. of course I dont like awn w hich they use i believe
[16:59] <coz_> or docky maybe
[17:00] <coz_> darkmatter,  I have been in a strange mood since the  "j_bear" incident and the old "dirt"  it dug up
[17:00] <coz_> darkmatter,  I deleted my flickr account  among other things
[17:00] <coz_> darkmatter,  not sure I want to be involved anylonger
[17:00] <darkmatter> I find postler fail (and not because it's "work in progess') because of things like "no" interaction beyond what you see. not that thats a bad thing, but it doesn't work with "traditional" mail reader guis
[17:01] <coz_> oh!
[17:01] <coz_> it sounded interesting that postler
[17:01] <darkmatter> coz_: e uses plank (from docky devs), ts basically docky on a starvation diet
[17:02] <darkmatter> coz_: it is, but the ui layout kills it, but otherwise its nice as can be
[17:02] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh  ok  ,, mmm well I have to use cairo dock or they will kick me  :)
[17:02] <darkmatter> I just like to do things like, umm.. iI dunno, sort cronologically :P
[17:07] <darkmatter> coz_: for me, mail should be two panes (minus chunky seperations, so it feels like one pane) side (cusomarily "folders", but I has nicer idea there ;)) and hybrid list/reader pane. coversation like view, inline reading. chrome in messages. "opening" a message gos to it (nicely animated somewhow to not look clunky, maybe fade others away as expanding)
[17:08] <coz_> darkmatter,  sounds right to me :)  I stopped using mail clients on board.. they all irritate me so far ,,, so gmail for me :)
[17:08] <darkmatter> "<All Mail" or similar to return to the "list" (though not list as we know it. pretty and different looking. maybe font/face, bit of color/ short summary text, etc
[17:08] <darkmatter> you don't even need a toolbar
[17:08] <coz_> cool
[17:09] <coz_> darkmatter,  I am going to go grab some lunch here... I need to get out of this funky mood :)  be back in a bit
[17:09] <darkmatter> you can still have a "compose" window, but thats not really needed either
[17:09] <coz_> cool
[17:09] <darkmatter> kk
[19:07] <thorwil> http://www.davidairey.com/the-disconcertion-of-spec/