/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/24/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

popeyjcastro: have my test posts to summit been removed?01:09
jcastro_popey: yeah you're all reset02:41
cjohnstonjcastro_: still around?02:55
jcastro_yo02:55
cjohnstonhowdy.. my buddy atomicferret has a unity problem... maybe you can assist a little02:56
atomicferretheh02:56
atomicferretis there a reliable mechanism to get the sidebar to display the option to pin an item?02:56
atomicferretI get several things I can't pin in place, as the add option just isn't there02:57
atomicferret(tried reboots, etc)02:57
atomicferretcurrent netbook version 10.1002:57
cjohnstonjcastro_: on 10.10 netbook02:57
jcastro_no02:58
cjohnstonwell.. i guess thats an easy answer :-(02:59
jcastro_it's kind of not very good02:59
atomicferretlol02:59
jcastro_I personally would just use unity 2d if you are on 10.1002:59
jcastro_despite the unfinshedness of it02:59
atomicferretthat just a different package in apt?02:59
jcastro_or just log into normal gnome02:59
atomicferretor a PPA02:59
jcastro_yeah, one sec02:59
jcastro_http://askubuntu.com/questions/21686/how-do-i-install-the-unity-2d-desktop03:00
atomicferretah sweet03:00
atomicferretthanks03:00
cjohnstonjcastro_: is my go to uniuty guy...03:00
cjohnstonunity too03:01
jcastro_\o/03:01
cjohnstonjcastro_: did you see my scheduled call with mr. metal?03:01
jcastro_yes03:01
jcastro_I accepted03:01
* cjohnston is tired of the partial upgrade message on +1 :-(03:01
cjohnstoncool03:01
atomicferretI wonder how the poulsbo driver is coming along in +103:02
cjohnstonjcastro_: would Bug #711033 be bitesize?03:04
ubot2Launchpad bug 711033 in unity "Add the ability to remove mounted drives from the Unity launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71103303:04
jcastro_heh, don't get your hopes up03:04
atomicferretyeah, silly gma bs03:04
jcastro_hmm, I can ask cjohnston03:04
jcastro_atomicferret: I've been eyeballing the new thinkpad03:04
jcastro_http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/21928-lenovos-fusion-x120e-116-inch-thinkpad-available03:05
atomicferretthat is cute03:06
cjohnstonjcastro_: atomicferret works in the cloud world at slicehost03:06
atomicferretthe only reason I have the poulsbo nightmare is from a fit-pc2i03:07
jcastro_where do I know that name from?03:07
atomicferretVPS provider03:07
cjohnstonrackspace03:07
jcastro_oh dude, I think I have one of your uds shirts03:07
cjohnstong'nite03:17
macojcastro_: ok i have Modern Family on on Hulu03:58
jcastro_maco: excellnt04:02
jcastro_you'll know as soon as you see yourself04:02
macojcastro_: well you already told me with an arrow! and i dont play cello, i play bass :P04:02
jcastro_yeah just pretend it's a bass04:02
* maco is impatiently waiting to get the bass back from Dad's house04:04
dpmgood morning all07:29
dholbachgood morning07:32
kim0Morning all08:16
duanedesigno/08:26
czajkowskiAloha09:10
jussi:)09:58
jussiThanks very much for requesting sponsorship to uds-o. '09:58
jussi:D09:58
popeyTechnoviking: why does our loco subdomain of ubuntuforums.org no longer work?10:46
popeyTechnoviking: uk.ubuntuforums.org used to go to http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274 but now it just goes to the forums home page10:46
czajkowski*sigh* only 1 woman at this event. Me13:58
czajkowski.c13:58
popeyczajkowski: you?14:01
czajkowskiyup14:12
popeywhat event is it14:29
jcastroBARK BARK HELLO POPEY BARK BARK14:30
popeyWOOF WOOF!14:30
=== daker_ is now known as daker
czajkowskipopey: ODF plugfest14:37
czajkowskilotta UK politicans tomorrow14:38
popeywhere?14:43
popeymaidenhead?14:44
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
* popey tickles dpm 15:01
dpmheya popey :)15:02
popeydpm: a friend of mine who has developed something and is using launchpad, is asking me translations questions, I am _clueless_ about this. Would it be possible to point him in your direction?15:02
dpmpopey, sure!15:03
popeycan i fire an email at you? what email address is best?15:03
dpmjust give him my e-mail or we can catch up on IRC15:03
dpmsure, on PM15:04
popeythank you!15:04
dpmno worries :)15:04
jcastropopey: make the person ask questions!15:13
jcastroyou know where!15:13
jcastrohttp://askubuntu.com/questions/22587/patches-and-translations/23708#2370815:14
jcastrolook at David's wonderful expertise15:14
* dpm hugs jcastro15:18
Technovikingpopey: we have been having dns re-direct issue on the forums since the new hardware went in. I beleive IS know.15:49
Technovikingpopey: looks like it is working for me now15:49
popeyindeed, it is for me now too15:52
komputesjcastro: starting to get the hang of askubuntu16:18
jcastronice!16:19
komputesjcastro: do you guys yse any programs to interface with the side (gwibber/rss feeds) or do you just refresh the page and go through questions16:19
jcastrothere's a branch/bug for supporting the API16:20
komputesjcastro: I would say that idea I brought to the table ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/alaide ) is really well implemented in the stackexchange model, better than I could have ever imagined. I'm excited to see what apps will take advantage of the upcoming API.16:22
jcastroyeah I remember that16:23
komputesAny chance of having points ion stackexchange reflect as karma in LP, or is that a big no-no16:23
czajkowskipopey: http://www.odfplugfest.co.uk/16:50
czajkowskikomputes: karam isn't that big a deal16:51
czajkowskikomputes: people put too much focus at times on it16:51
komputesczajkowski: I agree, it's the little things like karma and badges and rep that make people feel involved. it's not too important.16:51
popeyyeah, its what got me first involved16:55
popeyfor a while I had more karma than anyone, just for answering questions on launchpad16:55
popeythen I stopped being a bum, and got a job ;)16:55
Technovikingpopey: have you heard if other loco forums are not resolving?17:00
popeyI have not.17:00
popeyI only know about ours because we link to it on the podcast site17:00
popeyand someone complained ;)17:00
AlanBellpopey: did you get a response from IS about the wiki?17:10
popeyi forwarded you a mail about i17:10
popey*it17:10
AlanBellI have the one you sent, but I am failing to find a response17:15
popeyhmm, did I not?17:16
dholbachalright my friends, I'll go and meet soren (and family) for dinner now17:16
popeyo/ dholbach17:16
dholbachso have a great evening and see you all tomorrow17:16
popeyah, my bad17:16
popeyAlanBell: yhm17:17
Technovikingdholbach: later17:20
dholbachbye Technoviking17:21
popeydpm: feel free to miss me out of any replies to neil ;)17:37
dpmpopey, ok, no worries :)17:37
jcastrocjohnston: we're on in 3?17:57
komputes<jcastro> there's a branch/bug for supporting the AP <- Do you know the URL for this?17:57
cjohnstonyes17:58
jcastrokomputes: in ~gwibber somewhere17:58
jcastrokomputes: sorry quite slammed right now17:58
komputesnp will look gwibber lp bugs17:58
jcastroit's a branch from kenvandine17:59
jcastrolook in code.lp17:59
komputesahhhh17:59
jonocjohnston, hey, give me a min18:00
jonowrapping something18:00
cjohnstonyup18:00
cjohnstonReference for jono / jcastro bug 672113 bug 70939518:01
ubot2Launchpad bug 672113 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com uses too bright orange" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67211318:01
ubot2Launchpad bug 709395 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com needs the use the Ubuntu font" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70939518:01
cjohnstonbug 672113 jcastro18:04
ubot2Launchpad bug 672113 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com uses too bright orange" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67211318:04
cjohnstonsorry.. bug 71672618:05
ubot2Launchpad bug 716726 in ubuntu-website "right navigation arrow on uds.ubuntu.com slideshow cut off" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71672618:05
cjohnstonjcastro, jono thanks :-)18:06
jcastrowooo18:07
jcastronice and quick, just the way I like it!18:07
jcastroI like how you roll18:07
cjohnston:-)18:09
jonothanks cjohnston18:10
cjohnstonyup18:10
doctormojono: I'd call that latest comment to your blog offensive. Have you seen it?20:22
jonodoctormo, deleted20:24
mhall119it's funny how people will release code under a permissive license, then complain when people use the code accordingly21:04
paultagmhall119: well, personally, I bitch when stuff I write is jacked verbatim and re-licensed as someone else's work. If you don't maintain copyright, it's illigal21:05
paultagmhall119: that's the only situation I whine in. What's this jabroni saying?21:05
mhall119paultag: reading some of the comments on jono's blog21:06
paultag(and I'm talking about plagiarism here, not decent changes)21:06
paultagmhall119: link?21:06
mhall119the "OMG! You modified GPL software for your own benefit? How dare you!"21:06
mhall119http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/24/banshee-in-natty-to-ship-multiple-stores-and-contribute-to-gnome-foundation/21:06
mhall119no doubt the same people also complained that Ubuntu One's server-side component wasn't released under a license that would allow others to make money off it21:07
paultagmhall119: I don't see it21:07
paultag<-- I whined about that21:07
paultagand Launchpad21:07
paultagLaunchpad sucked ass, and it was nonfree for a while. Now it's free, but still meh21:08
paultagat least there's progress21:08
mhall119right, but it doesn't make sense to complain about Ubuntu locking in profit for themselves, then complaining when Banshee's profit lock-in is changed21:09
paultagmhall119: ubuntu is not locking in profit21:09
paultagmhall119: canonical is21:09
mhall119right21:09
* mhall119 forgets to make the distinction sometimes21:09
paultagI don't really care too much about that. I just hate it when it messes with my life as an end user21:10
paultagsuch as changing the default search provider *cough*21:10
mhall119the point is, either you support software being open to modification for the benefit of the person doing the modification, or you don't21:10
paultagmhall119: yeah, but that's not the issue21:10
mhall119with which?21:10
mhall119the Banshee decision?21:10
paultagmhall119: the issue is saying "Canonical (a corperation, out to make money) is preventing the authors of this software (people on their own) from getting paid"21:11
paultagmhall119: it's not if they have a right to do that, because they clearly do, it's a moral argument21:11
mhall119"preventing" is a bit of a stretch there21:11
paultagmhall119: you see that argument, though, right?21:11
mhall119right, I see it21:11
paultagmhall119: OK, cool. All set.21:11
mhall119I just don't see how it meshes with the criticism over closed-source U121:12
paultagit does not compare -- U1 authors are getting paid by the cash generated from U121:12
mhall119or, really, with promoting the virtues of the license Banshee is released under21:12
mhall119right, but the complaints I heard was that Canonical would not open-source it so that people could modify it and run it themselves, thus making money off the original author's code21:13
paultagmhall119: of ubuntu one?21:14
mhall119or at least "preventing the authors of the software from getting paid"21:14
mhall119paultag: yes21:14
paultagmhall119: no, canonical for some stupid reason wants to lock people into paying for the sync service21:14
paultagmhall119: so I can't set up my own cloud and grant myself contact sync rights21:15
paultagmhall119: banshee is a totally different argument21:15
paultagand both are morally questionable21:15
mhall119I don't see how21:15
paultagbut I guess corperations don't need to be moral21:15
mhall119other than that banshee is released under a license that makes it legal21:15
paultagmhall119: it's not about legality21:15
mhall119it's not even a question of morality, it's a question of consistency21:16
paultag21:11 < paultag> mhall119: it's not if they have a right to do that, because they clearly do, it's a moral argument21:16
mhall119so, is it "moral" to use someone else's code, which they are getting money from, and changing how it is used so that they no longer recieve money from it?21:16
paultagmhall119: no, clearly.21:17
mhall119so it would not be moral, even if U1 server was open source, to host it on your own server21:17
paultagmhall119: I don't care about U121:17
paultagmhall119: that was never what I'm arguing21:17
mhall119but it's what I was arguing21:17
paultagmhall119: OK, I'll stipulate -- it would be legal21:17
paultagmhall119: and moral21:17
mhall119if you're not arguing it....then we're not really arguing at all21:17
paultagmhall119: *but*, you're not paying for the code, you're paying for bandwidth21:18
paultagmhall119: with banshee, there's no additional cost of the service to canonical, or the authors21:18
paultagmhall119: as such, it becomes an issue of trying to squeeze money out21:18
mhall119well, there's maintenance21:18
mhall119and distribution21:18
mhall119integration21:18
mhall119clearly it cost Canonical some money to make Banshee the default21:19
paultagmhall119: yes, but it cost the developers more to create it21:19
paultaggod forbid :)21:19
paultagmhall119: I really don't care about this argument, I'm actually switching to Debian so I can avoid some of this21:20
paultagthere's way too much drama nowadays21:20
paultagburning me out like a mo'fo21:20
popeyo_O21:20
mhall119good luck, but I bet you an iceweasal that you won't escape the drama ;)21:20
paultagmhall119: nah, I'm using chrome21:20
* popey wonders what the revenue split is for chrome :)21:21
mhall119the point remains, debian's been burned by these things too21:21
paultagpopey: I'm not ditching Ubuntu as a community, just as my OS :)21:21
popeystill..21:21
paultagmhall119: yes, but cash is never the motive21:21
mhall119true21:21
paultagmhall119: whereas canonical will ignore me ( as a community hacker ) to get some cash flow21:21
paultagso yeah21:22
paultagDebian it is21:22
mhall119okay, so the main problem for you is that the drama involves money?21:22
paultagmhall119: nope. I don't give two shits about money21:22
mhall119then why specify that Canonical/Ubuntu drama is different because cash is involved?21:23
paultagmhall119: it's the fact that I (as an ubuntu contributor, and not canonical) am a second-class contributor -- the work that I decide to do is secondary to the folks at Canonical it's self21:23
paultagand I don't want to work for Canonical, so I'll never be able to have a real, meaningful contirbution to Ubuntu21:24
paultagHell, with Debian they give *@debian.org access to servers21:24
paultagif you want to run a script against all the packages, that's fine. Here we have to email someone at canonical, ask them if they can do it, then get a "no" back in 4 weeks21:25
* czajkowski hugs jono 21:25
mhall119paultag: are people without *@debian.org second-class contributors?21:26
paultagmhall119: clearly, but then that creates a new class below @ubuntu.com, which is third class21:26
paultagmhall119: and there's no constraint on how many debian folks are around, there is a constraint on how many canonical folks are around21:26
mhall119so I guess I just don't see where this difference in degrees becomes a difference in kind21:26
paultagmhall119: then you'll be happy here21:27
czajkowskipaultag: are you being cranky21:27
mhall119well I certainly hope so21:27
paultagczajkowski: nah21:27
czajkowskior your usual charming self21:27
mhall119he's always charming21:27
czajkowskiindeed21:27
* jono hugs czajkowski21:27
mhall119anyway, time for me to run, thanks for the discussion paultag21:28
czajkowskijono: there are some amount of toss pots on twitter this evenig21:28
paultagmhall119: aye, cheers21:28
* czajkowski tickles paultag 21:28
* paultag hugs czajkowski 21:28
jonoczajkowski, it is what it is :-)21:28
jcastro<paultag> and I don't want to work for Canonical, so I'll never be able to have a real, meaningful contirbution to Ubuntu21:29
jcastropaultag: that's kind of not true. :(21:29
czajkowskijono: indeed.21:29
czajkowskistill sucky and childish of some folks though21:29
paultagjcastro: what if I needed to run something on one of the servers with packages extracted on it? I can't ssh into it because I'm not canonical I.S.21:30
czajkowskipaultag: oi I take offence at that, I don't develop but you can be damn sure I contribute in a meaningful ranting entertaining way mister21:30
jcastropaultag: I don't get your example21:30
jcastrodoes people.u.c have ssh access?21:30
paultagjcastro: for example, the reason why we're switching to DEP5 headers is to parse copyrights21:31
czajkowskipaultag: not even caonical staff can do that unless they are IS. so daft reason.21:31
paultagjcastro: if I wanted to take a look at which packages have what, and run statistics on it, I'd have to be local and run a python / perl script to parse them21:31
paultagjcastro: either I can download the whole archive ( which sucks for everyone ), or I run it on the machine it's self21:31
paultagjcastro: if I was *@debian.org, I could ssh in and run it, I can't do that with ubuntu :(21:31
jcastroso you needed an ssh account on a machine with the ubuntu archive21:32
jcastrowe can do that anywhere21:32
paultagjcastro: well I don't *need* it, it was an example -- just sort of talking about the mentality differences between debian and ubuntu21:32
jcastrowell, I don't have any more shell access to archive machines than you do21:33
paultagjcastro: I know that, and that's part of the bummer21:33
jcastrook so I just don't get how not being able to ssh into an archive machine = never be able to have a real contribution to ubuntu21:34
paultagjcastro: it feels like at times that some of the work is stuck in a box21:35
paultagjcastro: rather then having ubuntu membership mean you are really part of the whole project21:35
paultagI21:35
paultagI'm not trying to be an ungrateful toolbag21:35
jcastroso basically you WANT to be a sysadmin21:36
czajkowskipaultag: bring that up to the CC21:36
paultagjcastro: hell no21:36
czajkowskipaultag: see what else could be changed21:36
jcastroman, I'd rather never see a shell again. :p21:36
paultagI'm really not whining about this and talking about how much Ubuntu sucks, because I clearly care about it, and have cared for years21:36
jcastroPSA, 9 minutes: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-hd-tv21:36
paultagI mean, I wear my @ubuntu proudly, it's just something that ticked me off the other day for no real reason21:37
paultaghell, if I was a DD, I think i'd still use @ubuntu for stuff21:38
cjohnstonthanks newz2000 jcastro too much cloud cover :-( the wife and kids got to see it where they were22:08
jcastrodang22:08
cjohnstonuggh... jcastro Thats for you anyway.. we just talked about going to the coast for the last one22:08
cjohnstonso the kids can see it22:09
cjohnstonsince we have a condo on the beach by daytona22:09
* popey hugs jono22:10
* jono hugs popey :-)22:13
Technovikingget a room :)22:27
mhall119paultag: do motus have the access you're talking about?23:07
paultagmhall119: no23:07
mhall119so basically the problem is that Ubuntu's archives are on Canonical's servers, not community-owned servers23:07
paultagmhall119: it's not that that's a problem23:08
mhall119but that's the barrier23:08
paultagmhall119: it's just a different vibe then a community run project23:08
mhall119it also means that the Ubuntu community doesn't need to raise funds for maintenance23:08
paultagmhall119: it's the idea that it's OK to shut out the community from some things23:08
AlanBellcanonical is a subset of community, not external to it23:09
AlanBellin theory23:09
paultagAlanBell: +123:09
AlanBellso a bit of "the community" has shell access to the servers23:10
AlanBelljust happens to be the bit that isn't you23:10
paultagAlanBell: but in practice, if someone @canonical wants a change, if the whole ubuntu community votes against it, they will still do it23:10
paultagAlanBell: aye, I see your point23:10
AlanBellsame for the core Debian team that have shell access23:10
paultagAlanBell: the whole of debian has access to servers via ldap, I thought23:11
AlanBellI have no idea really23:11
paultagAlanBell: there is a team that is in charge of admin, but I could have sworn @debian auth'd you23:11
paultagin case you needed something23:11
AlanBellI think you can build stuff23:12
AlanBellbut we have PPA access23:12
paultagAlanBell: yeah, but then you have to actually upload it, not just ssh into the arm build box to test a quick build before an upload23:12
AlanBellI know Debian have arm and mips servers that can do builds for people23:12
paultagAlanBell: yeah, they have most all arches23:12
paultagI'm really not that vested in "fighting the man", and I really don't hate Ubuntu or Canonical23:13
paultagI like them just fine, actually23:13
paultagjust stressed and whining, I think. Not really sure what I'm doing :)23:14
* AlanBell thinks somebody needs a hug23:25
paultagyeah, I think so23:26
paultagI've been unusually crabby lately23:26
* pleia2 hugs paultag 23:28
* paultag hugs pleia2 23:29
doctormopopey, pleia2: Got rejected by kickstarter. Oh well.23:51
popeywhy?23:51
popeytry http://www.indiegogo.com/ instead... Linux Outlaws used that to fund Dan to FOSDEM. http://www.indiegogo.com/lo-fosdem201123:52
doctormopopey: "It's not right for their platform"23:54
popeyfair enough23:57
popeyat least you can see indiegogo have done this before23:57

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