[01:09] <popey> jcastro: have my test posts to summit been removed?
[02:41] <jcastro_> popey: yeah you're all reset
[02:55] <cjohnston> jcastro_: still around?
[02:55] <jcastro_> yo
[02:56] <cjohnston> howdy.. my buddy atomicferret has a unity problem... maybe you can assist a little
[02:56] <atomicferret> heh
[02:56] <atomicferret> is there a reliable mechanism to get the sidebar to display the option to pin an item?
[02:57] <atomicferret> I get several things I can't pin in place, as the add option just isn't there
[02:57] <atomicferret> (tried reboots, etc)
[02:57] <atomicferret> current netbook version 10.10
[02:57] <cjohnston> jcastro_: on 10.10 netbook
[02:58] <jcastro_> no
[02:59] <cjohnston> well.. i guess thats an easy answer :-(
[02:59] <jcastro_> it's kind of not very good
[02:59] <atomicferret> lol
[02:59] <jcastro_> I personally would just use unity 2d if you are on 10.10
[02:59] <jcastro_> despite the unfinshedness of it
[02:59] <atomicferret> that just a different package in apt?
[02:59] <jcastro_> or just log into normal gnome
[02:59] <atomicferret> or a PPA
[02:59] <jcastro_> yeah, one sec
[03:00] <jcastro_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/21686/how-do-i-install-the-unity-2d-desktop
[03:00] <atomicferret> ah sweet
[03:00] <atomicferret> thanks
[03:00] <cjohnston> jcastro_: is my go to uniuty guy...
[03:01] <cjohnston> unity too
[03:01] <jcastro_> \o/
[03:01] <cjohnston> jcastro_: did you see my scheduled call with mr. metal?
[03:01] <jcastro_> yes
[03:01] <jcastro_> I accepted
[03:01]  * cjohnston is tired of the partial upgrade message on +1 :-(
[03:01] <cjohnston> cool
[03:02] <atomicferret> I wonder how the poulsbo driver is coming along in +1
[03:04] <cjohnston> jcastro_: would Bug #711033 be bitesize?
[03:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 711033 in unity "Add the ability to remove mounted drives from the Unity launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711033
[03:04] <jcastro_> heh, don't get your hopes up
[03:04] <atomicferret> yeah, silly gma bs
[03:04] <jcastro_> hmm, I can ask cjohnston
[03:04] <jcastro_> atomicferret: I've been eyeballing the new thinkpad
[03:05] <jcastro_> http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/21928-lenovos-fusion-x120e-116-inch-thinkpad-available
[03:06] <atomicferret> that is cute
[03:06] <cjohnston> jcastro_: atomicferret works in the cloud world at slicehost
[03:07] <atomicferret> the only reason I have the poulsbo nightmare is from a fit-pc2i
[03:07] <jcastro_> where do I know that name from?
[03:07] <atomicferret> VPS provider
[03:07] <cjohnston> rackspace
[03:07] <jcastro_> oh dude, I think I have one of your uds shirts
[03:17] <cjohnston> g'nite
[03:58] <maco> jcastro_: ok i have Modern Family on on Hulu
[04:02] <jcastro_> maco: excellnt
[04:02] <jcastro_> you'll know as soon as you see yourself
[04:02] <maco> jcastro_: well you already told me with an arrow! and i dont play cello, i play bass :P
[04:02] <jcastro_> yeah just pretend it's a bass
[04:04]  * maco is impatiently waiting to get the bass back from Dad's house
[07:29] <dpm> good morning all
[07:32] <dholbach> good morning
[08:16] <kim0> Morning all
[08:26] <duanedesign> o/
[09:10] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:58] <jussi> :)
[09:58] <jussi> Thanks very much for requesting sponsorship to uds-o. '
[09:58] <jussi> :D
[10:46] <popey> Technoviking: why does our loco subdomain of ubuntuforums.org no longer work?
[10:46] <popey> Technoviking: uk.ubuntuforums.org used to go to http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274 but now it just goes to the forums home page
[13:58] <czajkowski> *sigh* only 1 woman at this event. Me
[13:58] <czajkowski> .c
[14:01] <popey> czajkowski: you?
[14:12] <czajkowski> yup
[14:29] <popey> what event is it
[14:30] <jcastro> BARK BARK HELLO POPEY BARK BARK
[14:30] <popey> WOOF WOOF!
[14:37] <czajkowski> popey: ODF plugfest
[14:38] <czajkowski> lotta UK politicans tomorrow
[14:43] <popey> where?
[14:44] <popey> maidenhead?
[15:01]  * popey tickles dpm 
[15:02] <dpm> heya popey :)
[15:02] <popey> dpm: a friend of mine who has developed something and is using launchpad, is asking me translations questions, I am _clueless_ about this. Would it be possible to point him in your direction?
[15:03] <dpm> popey, sure!
[15:03] <popey> can i fire an email at you? what email address is best?
[15:03] <dpm> just give him my e-mail or we can catch up on IRC
[15:04] <dpm> sure, on PM
[15:04] <popey> thank you!
[15:04] <dpm> no worries :)
[15:13] <jcastro> popey: make the person ask questions!
[15:13] <jcastro> you know where!
[15:14] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/22587/patches-and-translations/23708#23708
[15:14] <jcastro> look at David's wonderful expertise
[15:18]  * dpm hugs jcastro
[15:49] <Technoviking> popey: we have been having dns re-direct issue on the forums since the new hardware went in. I beleive IS know.
[15:49] <Technoviking> popey: looks like it is working for me now
[15:52] <popey> indeed, it is for me now too
[16:18] <komputes> jcastro: starting to get the hang of askubuntu
[16:19] <jcastro> nice!
[16:19] <komputes> jcastro: do you guys yse any programs to interface with the side (gwibber/rss feeds) or do you just refresh the page and go through questions
[16:20] <jcastro> there's a branch/bug for supporting the API
[16:22] <komputes> jcastro: I would say that idea I brought to the table ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/alaide ) is really well implemented in the stackexchange model, better than I could have ever imagined. I'm excited to see what apps will take advantage of the upcoming API.
[16:23] <jcastro> yeah I remember that
[16:23] <komputes> Any chance of having points ion stackexchange reflect as karma in LP, or is that a big no-no
[16:50] <czajkowski> popey: http://www.odfplugfest.co.uk/
[16:51] <czajkowski> komputes: karam isn't that big a deal
[16:51] <czajkowski> komputes: people put too much focus at times on it
[16:51] <komputes> czajkowski: I agree, it's the little things like karma and badges and rep that make people feel involved. it's not too important.
[16:55] <popey> yeah, its what got me first involved
[16:55] <popey> for a while I had more karma than anyone, just for answering questions on launchpad
[16:55] <popey> then I stopped being a bum, and got a job ;)
[17:00] <Technoviking> popey: have you heard if other loco forums are not resolving?
[17:00] <popey> I have not.
[17:00] <popey> I only know about ours because we link to it on the podcast site
[17:00] <popey> and someone complained ;)
[17:10] <AlanBell> popey: did you get a response from IS about the wiki?
[17:10] <popey> i forwarded you a mail about i
[17:10] <popey> *it
[17:15] <AlanBell> I have the one you sent, but I am failing to find a response
[17:16] <popey> hmm, did I not?
[17:16] <dholbach> alright my friends, I'll go and meet soren (and family) for dinner now
[17:16] <popey> o/ dholbach
[17:16] <dholbach> so have a great evening and see you all tomorrow
[17:16] <popey> ah, my bad
[17:17] <popey> AlanBell: yhm
[17:20] <Technoviking> dholbach: later
[17:21] <dholbach> bye Technoviking
[17:37] <popey> dpm: feel free to miss me out of any replies to neil ;)
[17:37] <dpm> popey, ok, no worries :)
[17:57] <jcastro> cjohnston: we're on in 3?
 there's a branch/bug for supporting the AP <- Do you know the URL for this?
[17:58] <cjohnston> yes
[17:58] <jcastro> komputes: in ~gwibber somewhere
[17:58] <jcastro> komputes: sorry quite slammed right now
[17:58] <komputes> np will look gwibber lp bugs
[17:59] <jcastro> it's a branch from kenvandine
[17:59] <jcastro> look in code.lp
[17:59] <komputes> ahhhh
[18:00] <jono> cjohnston, hey, give me a min
[18:00] <jono> wrapping something
[18:00] <cjohnston> yup
[18:01] <cjohnston> Reference for jono / jcastro bug 672113 bug 709395
[18:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 672113 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com uses too bright orange" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672113
[18:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709395 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com needs the use the Ubuntu font" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709395
[18:04] <cjohnston> bug 672113 jcastro
[18:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 672113 in ubuntu-website "uds.ubuntu.com uses too bright orange" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672113
[18:05] <cjohnston> sorry.. bug 716726
[18:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 716726 in ubuntu-website "right navigation arrow on uds.ubuntu.com slideshow cut off" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716726
[18:06] <cjohnston> jcastro, jono thanks :-)
[18:07] <jcastro> wooo
[18:07] <jcastro> nice and quick, just the way I like it!
[18:07] <jcastro> I like how you roll
[18:09] <cjohnston> :-)
[18:10] <jono> thanks cjohnston
[18:10] <cjohnston> yup
[20:22] <doctormo> jono: I'd call that latest comment to your blog offensive. Have you seen it?
[20:24] <jono> doctormo, deleted
[21:04] <mhall119> it's funny how people will release code under a permissive license, then complain when people use the code accordingly
[21:05] <paultag> mhall119: well, personally, I bitch when stuff I write is jacked verbatim and re-licensed as someone else's work. If you don't maintain copyright, it's illigal
[21:05] <paultag> mhall119: that's the only situation I whine in. What's this jabroni saying?
[21:06] <mhall119> paultag: reading some of the comments on jono's blog
[21:06] <paultag> (and I'm talking about plagiarism here, not decent changes)
[21:06] <paultag> mhall119: link?
[21:06] <mhall119> the "OMG! You modified GPL software for your own benefit? How dare you!"
[21:06] <mhall119> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/24/banshee-in-natty-to-ship-multiple-stores-and-contribute-to-gnome-foundation/
[21:07] <mhall119> no doubt the same people also complained that Ubuntu One's server-side component wasn't released under a license that would allow others to make money off it
[21:07] <paultag> mhall119: I don't see it
[21:07] <paultag> <-- I whined about that
[21:07] <paultag> and Launchpad
[21:08] <paultag> Launchpad sucked ass, and it was nonfree for a while. Now it's free, but still meh
[21:08] <paultag> at least there's progress
[21:09] <mhall119> right, but it doesn't make sense to complain about Ubuntu locking in profit for themselves, then complaining when Banshee's profit lock-in is changed
[21:09] <paultag> mhall119: ubuntu is not locking in profit
[21:09] <paultag> mhall119: canonical is
[21:09] <mhall119> right
[21:09]  * mhall119 forgets to make the distinction sometimes
[21:10] <paultag> I don't really care too much about that. I just hate it when it messes with my life as an end user
[21:10] <paultag> such as changing the default search provider *cough*
[21:10] <mhall119> the point is, either you support software being open to modification for the benefit of the person doing the modification, or you don't
[21:10] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, but that's not the issue
[21:10] <mhall119> with which?
[21:10] <mhall119> the Banshee decision?
[21:11] <paultag> mhall119: the issue is saying "Canonical (a corperation, out to make money) is preventing the authors of this software (people on their own) from getting paid"
[21:11] <paultag> mhall119: it's not if they have a right to do that, because they clearly do, it's a moral argument
[21:11] <mhall119> "preventing" is a bit of a stretch there
[21:11] <paultag> mhall119: you see that argument, though, right?
[21:11] <mhall119> right, I see it
[21:11] <paultag> mhall119: OK, cool. All set.
[21:12] <mhall119> I just don't see how it meshes with the criticism over closed-source U1
[21:12] <paultag> it does not compare -- U1 authors are getting paid by the cash generated from U1
[21:12] <mhall119> or, really, with promoting the virtues of the license Banshee is released under
[21:13] <mhall119> right, but the complaints I heard was that Canonical would not open-source it so that people could modify it and run it themselves, thus making money off the original author's code
[21:14] <paultag> mhall119: of ubuntu one?
[21:14] <mhall119> or at least "preventing the authors of the software from getting paid"
[21:14] <mhall119> paultag: yes
[21:14] <paultag> mhall119: no, canonical for some stupid reason wants to lock people into paying for the sync service
[21:15] <paultag> mhall119: so I can't set up my own cloud and grant myself contact sync rights
[21:15] <paultag> mhall119: banshee is a totally different argument
[21:15] <paultag> and both are morally questionable
[21:15] <mhall119> I don't see how
[21:15] <paultag> but I guess corperations don't need to be moral
[21:15] <mhall119> other than that banshee is released under a license that makes it legal
[21:15] <paultag> mhall119: it's not about legality
[21:16] <mhall119> it's not even a question of morality, it's a question of consistency
[21:16] <paultag> 21:11 < paultag> mhall119: it's not if they have a right to do that, because they clearly do, it's a moral argument
[21:16] <mhall119> so, is it "moral" to use someone else's code, which they are getting money from, and changing how it is used so that they no longer recieve money from it?
[21:17] <paultag> mhall119: no, clearly.
[21:17] <mhall119> so it would not be moral, even if U1 server was open source, to host it on your own server
[21:17] <paultag> mhall119: I don't care about U1
[21:17] <paultag> mhall119: that was never what I'm arguing
[21:17] <mhall119> but it's what I was arguing
[21:17] <paultag> mhall119: OK, I'll stipulate -- it would be legal
[21:17] <paultag> mhall119: and moral
[21:17] <mhall119> if you're not arguing it....then we're not really arguing at all
[21:18] <paultag> mhall119: *but*, you're not paying for the code, you're paying for bandwidth
[21:18] <paultag> mhall119: with banshee, there's no additional cost of the service to canonical, or the authors
[21:18] <paultag> mhall119: as such, it becomes an issue of trying to squeeze money out
[21:18] <mhall119> well, there's maintenance
[21:18] <mhall119> and distribution
[21:18] <mhall119> integration
[21:19] <mhall119> clearly it cost Canonical some money to make Banshee the default
[21:19] <paultag> mhall119: yes, but it cost the developers more to create it
[21:19] <paultag> god forbid :)
[21:20] <paultag> mhall119: I really don't care about this argument, I'm actually switching to Debian so I can avoid some of this
[21:20] <paultag> there's way too much drama nowadays
[21:20] <paultag> burning me out like a mo'fo
[21:20] <popey> o_O
[21:20] <mhall119> good luck, but I bet you an iceweasal that you won't escape the drama ;)
[21:20] <paultag> mhall119: nah, I'm using chrome
[21:21]  * popey wonders what the revenue split is for chrome :)
[21:21] <mhall119> the point remains, debian's been burned by these things too
[21:21] <paultag> popey: I'm not ditching Ubuntu as a community, just as my OS :)
[21:21] <popey> still..
[21:21] <paultag> mhall119: yes, but cash is never the motive
[21:21] <mhall119> true
[21:21] <paultag> mhall119: whereas canonical will ignore me ( as a community hacker ) to get some cash flow
[21:22] <paultag> so yeah
[21:22] <paultag> Debian it is
[21:22] <mhall119> okay, so the main problem for you is that the drama involves money?
[21:22] <paultag> mhall119: nope. I don't give two shits about money
[21:23] <mhall119> then why specify that Canonical/Ubuntu drama is different because cash is involved?
[21:23] <paultag> mhall119: it's the fact that I (as an ubuntu contributor, and not canonical) am a second-class contributor -- the work that I decide to do is secondary to the folks at Canonical it's self
[21:24] <paultag> and I don't want to work for Canonical, so I'll never be able to have a real, meaningful contirbution to Ubuntu
[21:24] <paultag> Hell, with Debian they give *@debian.org access to servers
[21:25] <paultag> if you want to run a script against all the packages, that's fine. Here we have to email someone at canonical, ask them if they can do it, then get a "no" back in 4 weeks
[21:25]  * czajkowski hugs jono 
[21:26] <mhall119> paultag: are people without *@debian.org second-class contributors?
[21:26] <paultag> mhall119: clearly, but then that creates a new class below @ubuntu.com, which is third class
[21:26] <paultag> mhall119: and there's no constraint on how many debian folks are around, there is a constraint on how many canonical folks are around
[21:26] <mhall119> so I guess I just don't see where this difference in degrees becomes a difference in kind
[21:27] <paultag> mhall119: then you'll be happy here
[21:27] <czajkowski> paultag: are you being cranky
[21:27] <mhall119> well I certainly hope so
[21:27] <paultag> czajkowski: nah
[21:27] <czajkowski> or your usual charming self
[21:27] <mhall119> he's always charming
[21:27] <czajkowski> indeed
[21:27]  * jono hugs czajkowski
[21:28] <mhall119> anyway, time for me to run, thanks for the discussion paultag
[21:28] <czajkowski> jono: there are some amount of toss pots on twitter this evenig
[21:28] <paultag> mhall119: aye, cheers
[21:28]  * czajkowski tickles paultag 
[21:28]  * paultag hugs czajkowski 
[21:28] <jono> czajkowski, it is what it is :-)
 and I don't want to work for Canonical, so I'll never be able to have a real, meaningful contirbution to Ubuntu
[21:29] <jcastro> paultag: that's kind of not true. :(
[21:29] <czajkowski> jono: indeed.
[21:29] <czajkowski> still sucky and childish of some folks though
[21:30] <paultag> jcastro: what if I needed to run something on one of the servers with packages extracted on it? I can't ssh into it because I'm not canonical I.S.
[21:30] <czajkowski> paultag: oi I take offence at that, I don't develop but you can be damn sure I contribute in a meaningful ranting entertaining way mister
[21:30] <jcastro> paultag: I don't get your example
[21:30] <jcastro> does people.u.c have ssh access?
[21:31] <paultag> jcastro: for example, the reason why we're switching to DEP5 headers is to parse copyrights
[21:31] <czajkowski> paultag: not even caonical staff can do that unless they are IS. so daft reason.
[21:31] <paultag> jcastro: if I wanted to take a look at which packages have what, and run statistics on it, I'd have to be local and run a python / perl script to parse them
[21:31] <paultag> jcastro: either I can download the whole archive ( which sucks for everyone ), or I run it on the machine it's self
[21:31] <paultag> jcastro: if I was *@debian.org, I could ssh in and run it, I can't do that with ubuntu :(
[21:32] <jcastro> so you needed an ssh account on a machine with the ubuntu archive
[21:32] <jcastro> we can do that anywhere
[21:32] <paultag> jcastro: well I don't *need* it, it was an example -- just sort of talking about the mentality differences between debian and ubuntu
[21:33] <jcastro> well, I don't have any more shell access to archive machines than you do
[21:33] <paultag> jcastro: I know that, and that's part of the bummer
[21:34] <jcastro> ok so I just don't get how not being able to ssh into an archive machine = never be able to have a real contribution to ubuntu
[21:35] <paultag> jcastro: it feels like at times that some of the work is stuck in a box
[21:35] <paultag> jcastro: rather then having ubuntu membership mean you are really part of the whole project
[21:35] <paultag> I
[21:35] <paultag> I'm not trying to be an ungrateful toolbag
[21:36] <jcastro> so basically you WANT to be a sysadmin
[21:36] <czajkowski> paultag: bring that up to the CC
[21:36] <paultag> jcastro: hell no
[21:36] <czajkowski> paultag: see what else could be changed
[21:36] <jcastro> man, I'd rather never see a shell again. :p
[21:36] <paultag> I'm really not whining about this and talking about how much Ubuntu sucks, because I clearly care about it, and have cared for years
[21:36] <jcastro> PSA, 9 minutes: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-hd-tv
[21:37] <paultag> I mean, I wear my @ubuntu proudly, it's just something that ticked me off the other day for no real reason
[21:38] <paultag> hell, if I was a DD, I think i'd still use @ubuntu for stuff
[22:08] <cjohnston> thanks newz2000 jcastro too much cloud cover :-( the wife and kids got to see it where they were
[22:08] <jcastro> dang
[22:08] <cjohnston> uggh... jcastro Thats for you anyway.. we just talked about going to the coast for the last one
[22:09] <cjohnston> so the kids can see it
[22:09] <cjohnston> since we have a condo on the beach by daytona
[22:10]  * popey hugs jono
[22:13]  * jono hugs popey :-)
[22:27] <Technoviking> get a room :)
[23:07] <mhall119> paultag: do motus have the access you're talking about?
[23:07] <paultag> mhall119: no
[23:07] <mhall119> so basically the problem is that Ubuntu's archives are on Canonical's servers, not community-owned servers
[23:08] <paultag> mhall119: it's not that that's a problem
[23:08] <mhall119> but that's the barrier
[23:08] <paultag> mhall119: it's just a different vibe then a community run project
[23:08] <mhall119> it also means that the Ubuntu community doesn't need to raise funds for maintenance
[23:08] <paultag> mhall119: it's the idea that it's OK to shut out the community from some things
[23:09] <AlanBell> canonical is a subset of community, not external to it
[23:09] <AlanBell> in theory
[23:09] <paultag> AlanBell: +1
[23:10] <AlanBell> so a bit of "the community" has shell access to the servers
[23:10] <AlanBell> just happens to be the bit that isn't you
[23:10] <paultag> AlanBell: but in practice, if someone @canonical wants a change, if the whole ubuntu community votes against it, they will still do it
[23:10] <paultag> AlanBell: aye, I see your point
[23:10] <AlanBell> same for the core Debian team that have shell access
[23:11] <paultag> AlanBell: the whole of debian has access to servers via ldap, I thought
[23:11] <AlanBell> I have no idea really
[23:11] <paultag> AlanBell: there is a team that is in charge of admin, but I could have sworn @debian auth'd you
[23:11] <paultag> in case you needed something
[23:12] <AlanBell> I think you can build stuff
[23:12] <AlanBell> but we have PPA access
[23:12] <paultag> AlanBell: yeah, but then you have to actually upload it, not just ssh into the arm build box to test a quick build before an upload
[23:12] <AlanBell> I know Debian have arm and mips servers that can do builds for people
[23:12] <paultag> AlanBell: yeah, they have most all arches
[23:13] <paultag> I'm really not that vested in "fighting the man", and I really don't hate Ubuntu or Canonical
[23:13] <paultag> I like them just fine, actually
[23:14] <paultag> just stressed and whining, I think. Not really sure what I'm doing :)
[23:25]  * AlanBell thinks somebody needs a hug
[23:26] <paultag> yeah, I think so
[23:26] <paultag> I've been unusually crabby lately
[23:28]  * pleia2 hugs paultag 
[23:29]  * paultag hugs pleia2 
[23:51] <doctormo> popey, pleia2: Got rejected by kickstarter. Oh well.
[23:51] <popey> why?
[23:52] <popey> try http://www.indiegogo.com/ instead... Linux Outlaws used that to fund Dan to FOSDEM. http://www.indiegogo.com/lo-fosdem2011
[23:54] <doctormo> popey: "It's not right for their platform"
[23:57] <popey> fair enough
[23:57] <popey> at least you can see indiegogo have done this before