[00:00] <HazRPG> yeah, like RPD you need one to serve and one to connect
[00:00] <pr0ph3t> vino does that as well or not as featureful?
[00:01] <HazRPG> not sure, only really used RDP and VNc
[00:08] <HazRPG> dwatkins: okay, made a secure password using lower/caps/nums/special key combos
[00:08] <dwatkins> HazRPG: now make sure you don't forget it, just in case...
[00:09] <HazRPG> dwatkins: its my preferred password when sites/applications let me use it
[00:09] <HazRPG> I call is as my high-priority/secure password, so should be safe there
[00:09] <HazRPG> just a pain to type in at times :P
[00:10] <HazRPG> adduser for creating new users correct?
[00:11] <dwatkins> useradd, no?
[00:11] <HazRPG> no ?
[00:11] <dwatkins> ...and don't forget the -m
[00:11] <dwatkins> I guess it depends on the distro and year.
[00:11] <HazRPG> ubuntu 10.04
[00:11] <HazRPG> hasn't adduser been in since 8.04?
[00:13] <andylockran> hello
[00:13] <andylockran> I'm trying to get natty to load up gdm login screen
[00:13] <andylockran> it fails :(
[00:14] <Cepheus> i've always used useradd personally
[00:15] <andylockran> I'm running an oveau driver
[00:15] <andylockran> but the monitor is a big 24" one.
[00:15] <Cepheus> what card do you have, andylockran?
[00:15] <andylockran> nvidia 7900GS
[00:16] <andylockran> worked fine with maverick
[00:16] <andylockran> shouldn't have upgraded so early :p
[00:22] <Cepheus> what kind of failure? black screen? Xorg crash?
[00:23] <HazRPG> dwatkins: how do I give the new user sudo/root access?
[00:24] <Cepheus> andylockran: Not 100% sure, but you may be afflicted by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/723012
[00:24]  * HazRPG finding the ubuntu manual a bit daunting
[00:24] <dwatkins> HazRPG: honestly, I dn't know the official method; I think there's a command, but I just edit the relevant file with visudo
[00:24] <dwatkins> That I can appreciate, HazRPG - understanding an entire OS can be a little daunting. I like to thing of it as little ants doing their jobs
[00:24] <Cepheus> that seems a likely candidate, andylockran
[00:25] <HazRPG> dwatkins: ^^
[00:25] <HazRPG> yeah, I recall seeing something in the manuals about visudo
[00:29]  * HazRPG is somewhat lost
[00:30] <andylockran> sorted it :)
[00:30] <HazRPG> I know how to lock out root, however it would be silly to do so if my new user doesn't have sudo access yet
[00:30] <andylockran> Cepheus: thanks for your help
[00:30] <andylockran> I upgraded to the latest today
[00:30] <andylockran> and it looks kewl
[00:30] <Cepheus> andylockran: awesome.
[00:31] <andylockran> it looks more than kewl
[00:31] <andylockran> one strange thing is that text resolution in terminal looks weird.
[00:31] <andylockran> kinda stretched, vertica
[00:31] <andylockran> l
[00:31] <andylockran> but screen res is correct
[00:32] <popey> andylockran: got natty + nouveau working?
[00:33] <andylockran> popey: yeah
[00:33] <andylockran> how to turn off that damn autohide :p
[00:34] <andylockran> do you know how to turn it off?
[00:34] <Cepheus> I use the proprietary NVIDIA driver; my card is a little too new for nouveau support
[00:34] <Cepheus> at least, at an acceptable standard
[00:35] <popey> no, i dont andylockran
[00:36] <popey> I'm amazed nouveau is good enough to run minecraft ;)
[00:38] <Cepheus> ah, the minecraft bug is spreading far and wide and fast.
[00:38] <andylockran> oooh, pressing super gets the menu to display
[00:51] <DeathSling> I was after more info about xen so I went to there site only to find that they've had a serious hardware failure. Seeing as xen is about virtualisation and the ability to failover.... it's a bit ironic
[01:01] <andylockran> That's tidy - googled for new version of my original wordpress theme
[01:01] <andylockran> found a good 'un :)
[01:01] <andylockran> http://zrmt.com/  Theme is Cordobo Green.
[01:20] <HazRPG> hmm, the group "admin" doesn't seem to exist
[01:20]  * HazRPG looking at /etc/group
[01:20] <HazRPG> adm does though
[01:25] <popey> thats right
[01:25] <popey> bah, bed!
[01:26] <andylockran> 10043 andy      20   0  458m 158m  34m R  145  4.8   1:41.25 banshee-1
[01:26] <andylockran> wow
[01:26] <andylockran> %CPU for banshee hitting 177
[01:28] <HazRPG> ah ha! I think I get it now! :D
[01:36] <Cepheus> I personally prefer Rhythmbox to Banshee
[01:36] <Cepheus> mono is a bit of a hog...
[01:36] <hamitron> everything is :/
[01:37] <hamitron> at least it is starting to feel that way ;)
[01:37] <Cepheus> the faster computers get, the less important optimisation is for devs
[01:38] <Cepheus> result: bloat
[01:39] <hamitron> and then the need for even faster comps ;)
[01:59] <HazRPG> why is it that I hate documentation ... yet it is essentially what I'm doing now T_T
[02:09] <HazRPG> question about secure shell keys, I created one and linked it to my launchpad like a week ago... just wondering, I'm guessing I could make one for connecting to my vps... how would I limit access on my vps so that only my key is allowed access? And how would I use it to connect to it?
[02:13] <Cepheus> HazRPG: I'm guessing you have full access?
[02:14] <HazRPG> yeah
[02:14] <HazRPG> I just bought a vps for £15 a year
[02:15] <HazRPG> plan to host my blog onto it, and possibly running irssi over screen
[02:15] <HazRPG> just trying to lock it down though
[02:17] <HazRPG> so far, I've changed root password to a really really secure password (very obscure!), created a new user (that's me), created an admin group, made admin have some sudo access via visudo, and made my user a part of the admin group
[02:18] <HazRPG> also been poking through /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[02:19] <HazRPG> so far the only change I've done is "PermitRootLogin no"
[02:19] <HazRPG> and added "AllowUsers <user>"
[02:19] <HazRPG> but I haven't saved that file yet though
[02:19] <andylockran> I'd generate a ssh key instead of allowing passwords
[02:19] <andylockran> that's a secure thing to do
[02:20] <HazRPG> you mean what I've done so far is a secure thing to do, or the ssh key thing?
[02:20] <HazRPG> limiting by ssh key is what I'd like to do
[02:21] <HazRPG> I've created one on my workstation (different from my launchpad one)
[02:21] <Cepheus> once you can confirm your SSH key works for login
[02:21] <HazRPG> but how do I use it
[02:21] <Cepheus> right
[02:22] <Cepheus> in your homedir
[02:22] <Cepheus> cd ~/.ssh
[02:22] <HazRPG> much appreciated in advance btw :)
[02:22] <andylockran> copy id_rsa.pub (or the equivalent) in your homedir .ssh folder, into the remote .ssh dir - and renamed it to authorized_keys
[02:22] <Cepheus> this
[02:22] <andylockran> or listen to Cepheus
[02:22] <andylockran> sorry - that was a very quick explanation
[02:23] <Cepheus> don't forget to chmod it to 700 and make sure you are the owner
[02:23] <Cepheus> otherwise SSH will refuse to use it
[02:23]  * HazRPG opens up new terminal to confirm new user works
[02:24] <Cepheus> now, if you did all that, ssh -i /path/to/your/privatekey user@host
[02:24] <Cepheus> user is your username obv, and host is your host
[02:25] <Cepheus> if that works
[02:26] <HazRPG> right ok so .ssh doesn't exist in my home directory so I'm doing mkdir .ssh
[02:26] <Cepheus> okay.
[02:27] <HazRPG> chmod 700 .ssh
[02:27] <Cepheus> make sure you chmod it to 700
[02:27] <HazRPG> correct?
[02:27] <Cepheus> yes
[02:27] <HazRPG> right
[02:28] <HazRPG> user@host being my current machine?
[02:28] <Cepheus> HazRPG: The machine you want to connect to via SSH with private key
[02:28] <Cepheus> and the user
[02:30] <HazRPG> I'm guessing id_rsa is my private key
[02:30] <Cepheus> it is indeed.
[02:30] <HazRPG> (opening it says private key, so assumption seems correct)
[02:32] <HazRPG> okay, it asked for password after doing that... but I'm logged in using ssh -I /path/to/privatekey user@host
[02:33] <Cepheus> little i.
[02:33] <HazRPG> yeah little i
[02:33] <HazRPG> its just auto-word correct automatically changes it to caps on pidgin
[02:33] <Cepheus> ah
[02:34] <HazRPG> just did ls -a on .ssh and there's nothing there - but I'm guessing it shouldn't?
[02:34] <Cepheus> no, it should appear on ls -a
[02:34] <HazRPG> hmm, maybe I chmod it wrong
[02:34] <HazRPG> hang on
[02:35] <Cepheus> right directory?
[02:36] <HazRPG> no I think I just typed in "chmod 700 .ssh" instead of "chmod 700 .ssh <user>"
[02:38] <HazRPG> hmm, ls -ag shows this:
[02:38] <HazRPG> drwx------ 2 admin  4096 2011-02-24 02:26 .ssh
[02:38] <Cepheus> what's the name of the user, anyhow?
[02:39] <HazRPG> hazrpg
[02:39] <Cepheus> try chown -R hazrpg.hazrpg .ssh
[02:39] <Cepheus> or, sudo chown -R hazrpg.hazrpg .ssh
[02:41] <HazRPG> hmm, its still not showing up in .ssh
[02:44] <Cepheus> hmm
[02:44] <Cepheus> so .ssh is in /home/hazrpg?
[02:44] <Cepheus> and authorized_keys is in .ssh?
[02:44] <HazRPG> on my local machine?
[02:45] <Cepheus> on the remote machine
[02:45] <Cepheus> the one you're trying to ssh to
[02:45] <HazRPG> on the remote there's nothing in the .ssh folder
[02:45] <Cepheus> ah. you need to copy id_rsa.pub (or its contents) into the authorized_keys file there.
[02:46] <HazRPG> ah, is there a quicker way to do that rather than typing it all out?
[02:46] <HazRPG> never really used ssh to transfer files before
[02:47] <Cepheus> HazRPG: Sure. open id_rsa.pub in gedit, select all, copy.
[02:47] <HazRPG> heh seriously?
[02:47] <Cepheus> yup
[02:47] <Cepheus> then
[02:48] <Cepheus> echo *paste* > /home/hazrpg/.ssh/authorized_keys
[02:48] <Cepheus> should work
[02:48] <Cepheus> (over ssh)
[02:48] <Cepheus> don't type out *paste*, but right click > paste insteadd
[02:49] <HazRPG> guess I need to put "" in between that otherwise the spaces will just mess things up
[02:49] <HazRPG> heh, don't worry I knew that one ;)
[02:49] <Cepheus> yes
[02:49] <Cepheus> my bad!
[02:50] <HazRPG> ;)
[02:50] <HazRPG> right, done that
[02:50] <HazRPG> guess I should log back in again :)
[02:50] <Cepheus> chmod -R 700 ~/.ssh
[02:51] <Cepheus> then you should be able to log in with the command from before
[02:53] <HazRPG> should authorized_keys also be part of my group instead of admin btw?
[02:54] <Cepheus> I think it should be as long as you're the owner and permissions are 700
[02:54] <HazRPG> I did chown on it just in case
[02:54] <HazRPG> right logging out and back in again
[02:55] <HazRPG> well ubuntu just asked for my ssh passphrase, so I'm guessing something went right that time :)
[02:56] <HazRPG> still no id_rsa in there though :(
[02:57] <Cepheus> don't worry about that. all you need is the authorized_keys in there.
[02:57] <HazRPG> ah ok
[02:58] <Cepheus> that login okay?
[02:58] <HazRPG> yeah it did
[02:58] <Cepheus> awesome.
[02:58] <Cepheus> now, the other bit that you wanted
[02:59]  * HazRPG writes this all down just in case I need to reference it in future
[02:59] <Cepheus> to disable passworded logins from SSH
[02:59] <HazRPG> well to only allow a person with an authorized ssh key yeah
[03:00] <HazRPG> (aka me)
[03:00] <Cepheus> sudo echo "PasswordAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[03:01] <HazRPG> I'll use vim, since I always like to make sure I comment stuff
[03:02] <Cepheus> then sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart
[03:02] <Cepheus> now, your server will only accept public key logins
[03:03] <HazRPG> public key logins?
[03:03] <Cepheus> logging in with your key.
[03:04] <HazRPG> yeah I got that
[03:04] <HazRPG> but does that mean anyone with the public key will be allowed?
[03:04] <HazRPG> (my public key I mean)
[03:04] <Cepheus> *meant private key.
[03:04] <HazRPG> hope so :P
[03:04] <Cepheus> so of course:
[03:05] <Cepheus> don't give away your public key
[03:05] <HazRPG> Hmm, would I still need "AllowUsers hazrpg" then?
[03:05] <HazRPG> since I added that in earlier
[03:06] <HazRPG> hang on, then why would launchpad add public keys if you couldn't give  that one away
[03:06] <HazRPG> surely it's the private one you should never give away :P
[03:06] <Cepheus> Well, it works like this.
[03:07] <Cepheus> The Public key verifies your identity. anything wanting to verify your identity just needs your public key.
[03:07] <Cepheus> The private key IS your identity. Anyone that has it is you according to the public key.
[03:08] <Cepheus> and, keep the allowusers line.
[03:09] <HazRPG> I thought authentications could only happen if you had the private key
[03:09] <HazRPG> yeah I will do
[03:10] <HazRPG> (keep AllowUsers)
[03:11] <Cepheus> The public key is like a record of your thumbprint.
[03:11] <Cepheus> The private key is like your thumb itself.
[03:11] <Cepheus> People can know your thumbprint but they can't go round putting your thumbprint everywhere
[03:12] <HazRPG> so someone with the public key, can't gain access to my server unless they had the private key to go with it?
[03:12] <Cepheus> exactly so
[03:12] <Cepheus> so just make sure you don't lose your thumb =p
[03:13] <HazRPG> I've backed up both keys
[03:13] <HazRPG> you just had me concerned for a moment, since I have a public key on launchpad - when you said don't give it out, well I already have a public key out there on the net
[03:14] <Cepheus> no. the public key can be given to anyone.
[03:14] <HazRPG> *phew*
[03:14] <HazRPG> lol
[03:14] <HazRPG> thank you very very much dude, been a great help :)
[03:14] <Cepheus> no problem. Sorry that I faltered through this a bit =p
[03:14] <HazRPG> you shall be much credited on my blog when I write up my adventures with ubuntu server
[03:15] <HazRPG> its cool
[03:15] <HazRPG> <== still an ubuntu server trainee
[03:15] <HazRPG> learning stuff pretty quick though
[03:16] <HazRPG> found screen very useful when the internet was being choppy the other night
[03:16] <HazRPG> so glad that was one of few commands I learned early on
[03:16] <Cepheus> learning is the big hurdle with linux. once you learn, you are the master!
[03:16] <HazRPG> indeed!
[03:17] <HazRPG> I thought I knew a lot until I started messing with ubuntu server in a VM
[03:17] <HazRPG> was almost like everything else was small fry
[03:18] <HazRPG> thing I've noticed is, that control in linux is very easy and straight forward - you just need to know your commands/files & directories well
[03:18] <HazRPG> in windows, anyone can pretend to know anything because most of it is point-click
[03:19] <HazRPG> always funny to see sysadmins go nuts when they're point-clicks don't work and they can't work out what's wrong :P
[03:19] <Cepheus> yes. that is one of the beauties of GNU/Linux and other similar operating systems: everything can be done the same way.
[03:19] <HazRPG> their*
[03:19] <HazRPG> I think the only thing that varies in linux is the sudo command
[03:19] <HazRPG> I've found all the others seem to exist in pretty much all
[03:19] <Cepheus> GUI is nice and accessible. but you're limited to whatever the person who wrote the software wants you to see
[03:20] <HazRPG> thus the reason I'm trying to learn all this :)
[03:20] <HazRPG> got fed up of my home server not doing what I explicitly want it to
[03:20] <Cepheus> with the command line, you don't have to memorize menus or spend hours looking for options.
[03:21] <HazRPG> or worry that the GUI will change and you can't find it again :P
[03:21] <HazRPG> (updates, etc)
[03:21] <Cepheus> oh, the number of times this happens
[03:21] <Cepheus> especially microsoft
[03:22] <Cepheus> they love doing this.
[03:22] <HazRPG> tell me about it :/
[03:23] <HazRPG> last service pack messed things up big time with my apache server and a few other things
[03:23] <Cepheus> See: Office, Windows, Visual Studio, Paint, MSN/Windows Live Messenger, Internet Explorer
[03:23] <HazRPG> it decided to reset a few environment variables and other stuff, and moved them around
[03:23] <Cepheus> they don't look the same for more than 5 minutes.
[03:23] <HazRPG> heh agreed
[03:24] <HazRPG> I must say, I'm starting to love the command line
[03:24] <Cepheus> I haven't updated yet. I dislike Microsoft's big updates. Especially when their operating systems bluescreen while doing them and render your system 100% inoperable
[03:24] <HazRPG> going from maybe using it a few times in a week
[03:24] <HazRPG> I've gone to using 5-7 at a time every day!
[03:25] <Cepheus> no matter what operating system, I can guarantee you I always have at least one terminal open =p
[03:25] <Cepheus> even on my phone!
[03:25] <HazRPG> oh I meant my windows server I have, it's a student licence I have on it
[03:25] <HazRPG> keep meaning to root my nexus :P
[03:26] <Cepheus> ah. I've got one but I've not used it.
[03:26] <HazRPG> put cm6 or something on it
[03:26] <HazRPG> nexus one?
[03:26] <HazRPG> :o why not?
[03:26] <Cepheus> I bought a hacker's phone ;)
[03:26] <HazRPG> do tell ;)
[03:26] <Cepheus> no, a Windows Server student license
[03:27] <HazRPG> yeah I got it from Uni last year
[03:27] <Cepheus> Nokia N900. Not particularly handsome or bulky in the spec department.
[03:27] <Cepheus> but it's raw linux.
[03:27] <Cepheus> essentially customised debian.
[03:27] <HazRPG> oh wow, I almost bought that phone too!
[03:27] <HazRPG> is it any good?
[03:28] <HazRPG> spread the joy, dish out the dirt!
[03:28] <Cepheus> It works okay as a phone, but it shines in the hacker department.
[03:28] <HazRPG> almost got that phone myself, since I've always preferred nokia's phones - plus the slide out keyboard seemed like a bonus too
[03:29] <HazRPG> Cepheus: how so? raw terminal access?
[03:29] <Cepheus> Everything is almost identical in structure to debian/ubuntu - command line is there with bash, your full array of tools,
[03:29] <Cepheus> Xorg and pulseaudio
[03:29] <HazRPG> wow
[03:29] <Cepheus> it's desktop linux adapted for the phone.
[03:29]  * HazRPG looks at his nexus...
[03:30] <HazRPG> see that was one thing that almost put me off it
[03:30] <HazRPG> well did put me off it
[03:30] <HazRPG> I wasn't sure if they'd pull of the fact that it had too many tools from the desktop side of things - was afraid it might end up being a sluggish machine to run
[03:31] <HazRPG> s/of/off*
[03:31] <Cepheus> the third party apps are not as extensive as android's at all though. but there are huge amounts of open source software ported.
[03:31] <Cepheus> It's not actually that slow, surprisingly.
[03:32] <HazRPG> I recall reading someone trying to port blender to it just for fun as proof of concept
[03:32] <HazRPG> when I read that, my jaw dropped and wished I'd got one instead of the nexus
[03:32] <Cepheus> hah.
[03:33] <Cepheus> if lwjgl supported OpenGL ES... well, it might possibly play Minecraft.
[03:33] <Cepheus> but
[03:33] <Cepheus> it doesn't
[03:33] <Cepheus> and it'd probably run very slowly on account of the limited memory and non-desktop processor
[03:35] <HazRPG> I thought it had something comparable to the atom on-board
[03:35] <HazRPG> I thought it was at least 1GHz
[03:35] <Azelphur> Cepheus: I have a G2 running android myself :D
[03:36] <HazRPG> oh wow, hey :)
[03:36] <Azelphur> nah, it's 528mhz qualcomm
[03:36] <Azelphur> in the n900
[03:36] <Cepheus> nope. 600MHz Cortex A8
[03:36] <Azelphur> I thought the n900 was 528?
[03:36] <HazRPG> overclocked maybe :P?
[03:36] <Azelphur> hehe
[03:36] <HazRPG> give it some more juice!
[03:36] <Azelphur> HazRPG: my G2 has an 800Mhz processor in it, I've overclocked it to 1.8ghz
[03:37] <HazRPG> nice xD
[03:38] <Cepheus> says here that the default max frequency is 600MHz
[03:38] <Cepheus> I've gone up to 1.1GHz
[03:39] <HazRPG> hmm, apparently my vps doesn't have man installed :S
[03:39] <Azelphur> I wish android was more like maemo, it's a shame maemo died.
[03:39] <Cepheus> yeah
[03:39] <Cepheus> it died of windows phone 7
[03:39] <Azelphur> xD
[03:39] <Azelphur> windows mobile 7 is just a joke
[03:39] <HazRPG> I think the problem is google is so big that people trust them blindly
[03:39] <Azelphur> Microsoft is way too late to the party to make much of a difference
[03:40] <Cepheus> The biggest problems with maemo are the 3 largest overheads
[03:40] <Cepheus> Xorg, Pulseaudio, and Gecko.
[03:40] <HazRPG> heh did you hear about microsoft wanting geohotz to jailbreak the windows 7
[03:40] <HazRPG> for their phone
[03:40] <Cepheus> powerful? yes. also a bit large.
[03:41] <Azelphur> HazRPG: seems completely stupid lol
[03:41] <HazRPG> Cepheus: you could say that, but if they'd packed it into some slightly better hardware then you wouldn't be saying that :P
[03:41] <Cepheus> I would have thought that they would have chosen WebKit over Gecko, really.
[03:41] <Cepheus> HazRPG: It was a for-market prototype, really
[03:41] <HazRPG> I've heard people saying they put android on the ol' n900
[03:42] <HazRPG> seems like such a waste to place it on such a device :(
[03:42] <Cepheus> they have. It doesn't work quite right yet.
[03:42] <Cepheus> I want Intel to hurry up and get MeeGo to a usable state... maybe that'll work out
[03:42] <HazRPG> however I guess with android being on it, you do get to have a lil more leg room as far as resources go
[03:43] <Cepheus> but I didn't like that direction completely either
[03:43] <HazRPG> right I really really need to write down the stuff you showed me earlier before I forget
[03:43] <Cepheus> hah
[03:43] <HazRPG> back in a bit
[03:44] <Cepheus> well, the only thing I reall didn't like about MeeGo was the choice to use RPM over dpkg
[03:44] <HazRPG> best way to learn is to do, and then write it in your own words - it sticks better then :)
[03:44] <Cepheus> oh yes.
[03:44] <HazRPG> I really wish rpm would die :/
[04:01] <HazRPG> hmm something doesn't seem right here
[04:03] <HazRPG> /etc/group shows this "admin:x:1001:"
[04:03] <HazRPG> or does the number not really matter?
[04:03] <HazRPG> also, shouldn't my user be added on at the end?
[04:04] <HazRPG> :q!
[04:04] <HazRPG> oops
[04:38] <HazRPG> Cepheus: btw, thank you for the help earlier :)
[04:45] <Cepheus> no problem.
[05:58] <Myrtti> btw, MeeGo development is still ongoing and even the amount of commits Nokians do to it hasn't fallen
[06:00] <Myrtti> it's way too early to call MeeGo dead
[06:00] <MartijnVdS> "dying" then
[06:00] <MartijnVdS> ?
[06:01] <Myrtti> I'd say "struggling" until the full commitment of Nokia works out
[06:01] <MartijnVdS> "on life support"
[06:02] <Myrtti> but it has been struggling since day one with Android being so strong
[06:02] <Myrtti> in theory it's on a strong basis in comparison to Android, which in many ways is a closed box
[06:02] <Myrtti> but...
[06:02] <Myrtti> theory doesn't work like that
[06:05] <Myrtti> but then again, feel free not to join my fragile optimism, it is a bit mandatory for me but I can fully understand why others don't feel the same :-/
[06:55] <HazRPG> morning gues
[06:55] <HazRPG> guys*
[06:55] <HazRPG> and gals*
[06:56] <HazRPG> hmm... what does the red "42!" mean in byobu
[07:09] <AlanBell> morning
[07:09] <AlanBell> HazRPG: 42 updates available to apply with apt-get upgrade
[07:09] <HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, awesome :)
[07:10] <HazRPG> AlanBell: muchas gracias :)
[07:11] <HazRPG> would explain why I couldn't find any results for it in google
[07:11] <HazRPG> my first thought was "wow, meaning of life, the universe and everything"
[07:13] <alexcockell> Morning..
[07:13] <HazRPG> morning
[07:14] <alexcockell> Looks like we're all watching the Meego news...
[07:14] <HazRPG> :P
[07:15] <alexcockell> I was a little concerned about why it was a half'n'half blend of Debian and Red Hat... would that have described it accurately?
[07:16] <HazRPG> hmm, latest apache2 seems to be very different from what I'm use to (config-wise)
[07:16] <HazRPG> they've moved all the files around
[07:16] <alexcockell> So a bit like GRUB2 was to GRUB?
[07:16] <alexcockell> Not that I would know - preinstall user here...
[07:17] <HazRPG> alexcockell: nah, I use apache2 on my existing server, but I only patched it up every so often
[07:17] <HazRPG> the whole config was pretty much one file though
[07:18] <HazRPG> now it seems to be at least 4
[07:18] <HazRPG> that I can see
[07:18] <HazRPG> I like it the idea, means stuff is only placed where it needs to be... but still learning where stuff is meant to go
[07:21] <shauno> morning
[08:12] <DJones> Morning all
[08:30] <shauno> half tempted to go back to bed already
[08:40] <HazRPG> morning
[08:40] <DJones> shauno: Looking at the weather forecast, today is supposed to be quite good, if you go back to bed, you might miss this years summer
[08:40] <HazRPG> heh, after securing my vps up and doing a bit of config
[08:41] <HazRPG> under "Technical Info" it says "Server Status: SSH login failed"
[08:41] <HazRPG> that's on the website for my vps
[08:41] <HazRPG> I wonder if that's because of the way I've set it up
[08:44] <HazRPG> I've set it to only allow ssh key logins, and restricted root access, and only one user is allowed to login (me)
[08:44] <HazRPG> that's pretty rock solid surely...
[08:44] <HazRPG> unless I've got neighbours already trying to access my server
[08:56] <dwatkins> hi folks
[08:56] <HazRPG> I think I should give ubuntu server a rest for a little bit
[08:56] <HazRPG> let some of the stuff I've done so far sink in lol
[08:58] <HazRPG> I think I've wrote about ~200 lines of stuff so far of things I've learned!
[09:06] <BigRedS> HazRPG: that's pretty good! But, yeah, you can overdo the experimenting! :)
[09:06] <HazRPG> its why I'm documenting everything I do in my own words :)
[09:07] <HazRPG> that way its sticking in my mind better
[09:07] <HazRPG> plus it means I have something to reference that I'll be able to understand at a glance
[09:08] <HazRPG> one reason why I love commenting my code too
[09:08] <HazRPG> they're like little notes to yourself to remind you about stuff :)
[09:08] <HazRPG> I think coding is where I got this habit from :P
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just remember to comment on the "why".. the how should be obvious from reading the code ;)
[09:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've been commenting since I was 13, so I learned that the hard way ;)
[09:09]  * MartijnVdS has to wade through lots of "what" comments every day... people tend to forget to document the "Why" :(
[09:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I feel your pain
[09:10] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:10] <HazRPG> I'm currently going through the same thing for the site I'm working on :(
[09:10] <HazRPG> czajkowski: hey :)
[09:10] <AlanBell> yay
[09:10] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[09:10] <screen-x`> morning :)
[09:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: fancy seeing you here
[09:11]  * HazRPG waves to AlanBell :)
[09:11]  * AlanBell is on the other side of the room to czajkowski 
[09:13] <czajkowski> so when does this thing start
[09:18] <JamesTait> OHAI!
[09:20] <czajkowski> grrrrr
[09:22] <screen-x`> this is among the things I was hoping not to see when running do-release-upgrade "[: 22: bin: unexpected operator"
[09:22] <screen-x`> I see that JamesTait is speaking lolcat today..
[09:23] <JamesTait> I can haz cheezeburger?
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> http://lolcode.com/
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, unit tests -- they make life easy :)
[09:25] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: +1 for unit tests.
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: we write them religiously at work.. we've learned a lot about writing testable code :)
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: also, http://misko.hevery.com/code-reviewers-guide/
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: (java-oriented, but adaptable to other languages)
[09:28] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Same here. TDD and code reviews and pylint for style. And I think only a bot and a small subset of "admin" users can merge branches into trunk, and the bot runs the tests and makes sure they pass before doing the merge.
[09:29] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: unit tests?
[09:35]  * czajkowski mutters
[09:35] <czajkowski> I hate being touched and patted in a condescending way
[09:35] <czajkowski> drives me batty
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check that link I posted :)
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: extra code (tests) you write to confirm that the other code you wrote does what it should :)
[09:37] <czajkowski> patting me on the arm saying there there is not a good way to get in my books!
[09:37]  * kazade pats czajkowski on the arm
[09:37] <JamesTait> HazRPG: But for TDD, you should write the tests *before* you write the code it's going to test. It sounds weird, but it forces you to think about how your code will work before you start trying to write it.
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: we do that 50/50 at work
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> sometimes we do tests first, sometimes code.. depends on what we're doing really
[09:38] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't get what I'm doing on this site :S
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: read, watch videos :)
[09:39] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Yeah, we're pretty good with it, and I'd say we do it pretty consistently for all bug fixes except the simplest, but for new code, sometimes it just grows from something simple and we write tests for it afterwards.
[09:40] <HazRPG> JamesTait: I tend to find either writing them down, discussing them with people, or writing it out in a text editor (what its meant to do and how) works best
[09:40] <danfish> AlanBell: stop patting czajkowski on the arm ;)
[09:40] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: There are times when it's a bit of push and shove - you write a few tests to figure out the interface, you write some implementation to make the tests pass, then you experiment a little bit and end up with something that appears to work, so write the tests to verify it.
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Look for "Clean Code Talks" on youtube -- he's done google tech talks to explain :)
[09:40] <HazRPG> previously I use to even do mockups in a presentation app, vb6 or flash - just to get a rough idea of how things are going to piece together
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yeah, but knowing a few good patterns for writing easily-testable code helps a lot as well :)
[09:41] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: One trick I tend to use it to hash stuff out in comments first, then add the code afterwards.
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but can you be sure all old functionality works the same as before after adding a new feature?
[09:41] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS: +1 for patterns too.
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yes, I write code as comments first (in Dutch or English), then replace those comments with real code :)
[09:42] <shauno> that was something I liked about the google code uni exercises.  each one is a file full of empty/skeleton functions, and a test at the end.  you code to match the test
[09:43] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I try my best to make my work as modular as possible, that way instead of having massive amounts of code mashed into one, your only doing the essentials on the main pages, everything else is managed in classes/modules/functions
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you should seriously consider writing unit tests then :)
[09:44] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: your making me feel like I'm a bad coder lol
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't know that.. you might be :P
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you might be the best coder ever to walk the earth.. :)
[09:44] <HazRPG> I wouldn't go that far :P
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: anyway.. if you have time, check out those videos.. they rock :)
[09:45] <HazRPG> no code is ever perfect - no matter who the programmer is
[09:45]  * BigRedS really needs to get into this whole planning-the-code thing
[09:45] <HazRPG> the lolcode ones?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, the "Clean Code Talks" and http://misko.hevery.com/code-reviewers-guide/
[09:45] <BigRedS> everything I write is a quick-and-dirty script that stays in place until I try to modify it and find it incomprehensible
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://misko.hevery.com/presentations/ == clean code talks (among others)
[09:46] <HazRPG> BigRedS: its not that hard really
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: recognising that there is a problem is the first step in solving it :)
[09:46] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh, yeah I've got one on now - clicked the sub button too ^^
[09:47] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: much like my fear of using only a CLI for servers :P?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: probably, yes ;)
[09:47] <HazRPG> I must say I'm really enjoying working with ubuntu server :)
[09:48] <HazRPG> found myself having several terminals open now as standard haha
[09:48] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: It's also the smallest and easiest step :)
[09:49]  * HazRPG currently has htop running in the background for some of the machines in the house to keep an eye on them ^^
[09:49] <tugrik> anyone out there running an up to date 10.04?  Can you tell me what the output if of "sshd -V"?
[09:49] <HazRPG> tugrik: one moment
[09:50] <HazRPG> tugrik: I've got: OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu4, OpenSSL 0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009
[09:51] <tugrik> it is 5.3, ok, cheers HazRPG
[09:51] <HazRPG> tugrik: no problem
[09:51] <tugrik> btw - what are you looking out for with htop?
[09:51] <HazRPG> just general monitoring to make sure nothing is going haywire
[09:52] <tugrik> cool, look at "monit" if you want notifications about certain processes or the overall load on the box
[09:52]  * HazRPG hates it when my sister just tells me "its not working" and not giving details as to why
[09:52] <tugrik> :)
[09:53] <HazRPG> from what I can see, it's a web interface?
[09:54] <BigRedS> yeah, you stick a bunch of monitors on your box, and it displays what's wrong
[09:54] <HazRPG> cool, might have to give that a try
[09:54] <BigRedS> I think you can plug active notifications in, too, so you can sit there reading the paper safe in the knowledge that if anything breaks your phone will go off
[09:54] <BigRedS> unless the bit that does the phone breaks :)
[09:55] <HazRPG> :P
[09:56]  * HazRPG really likes the "shutdown -h now" command ^^
[09:56]  * screen-x` uses twitter for phone notifications, so theres 40% chance that if something breaks, he'll know about it
[09:56] <HazRPG> unless it's the internet that  breaks
[09:56] <screen-x> HazRPG: hence the low percentage..
[09:56] <HazRPG> :P
[09:56] <screen-x> also the unreliability of twitter..
[09:58] <shauno> I get sms when things don't look right.  rather annoying, because it's usually while I'm sat in front of it
[09:59] <screen-x> HazRPG: although actually the internet connection failure issue is somehwat mitigated by monitoring from local and remote boxes -- one of them is likely to be able to twitter.
[10:11] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh so far this is how I code :P
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "this"? :)
[10:12] <HazRPG> the class/function testing as you go along
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: automated tests, or manual? :)
[10:13] <HazRPG> both
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: this is all about having/using an automatic test framework
[10:14] <Jibadeeha> screen-x, are the SMSs free if you use twitter for phone notifications
[10:15] <HazRPG> I use google calendar for free sms's :P
[10:15] <dwatkins> I used to have twitter updated from a script, I need to learn OAUTH to find out how to make this work again.
[10:15] <Jibadeeha> good idea HazRPG
[10:16] <HazRPG> originally when someone told me about it, I thought it was daft to use a calendar for dealing with sms's but you'd be surprised when you actually start doing it
[10:17] <Jibadeeha> HazRPG, it is quite a clever way to do it
[10:18] <HazRPG> also means that its not shown in public eye :P
[10:18] <HazRPG> or even your own if you use the calendar for other things (like I do)
[10:18] <Jibadeeha> HazRPG, google calendars it is then
[10:19] <HazRPG> its not that hard to do either
[10:20] <Jibadeeha> what API do you use
[10:20] <HazRPG> even better, none ;)
[10:20] <Jibadeeha> just URLs
[10:20] <HazRPG> google calendar can be set to just monitor a url of feeds
[10:20] <HazRPG> (I have a url feed for birthdays from facebook)
[10:21] <screen-x> do-release-upgrade doesn't seem to have many options, is there a way to get it to choose the default answer to all questions?
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: no, becuase you never know all questions in advance
[10:21] <Jibadeeha> nice - this is a clever idea
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: packages might ask the dreaded Yes/No/Diff question
[10:21] <screen-x> Jibadeeha: (really slow response) but yes, the sms notifications are free
[10:22] <HazRPG> Jibadeeha: you have to send your data into a file on a webserver somewhere in a format that the calender can understand
[10:22] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: in that case, I want to keep my locally changed version
[10:22] <HazRPG> Jibadeeha: and then just use the basic functions inside of google calendar as to when you want SMS's to be sent
[10:23] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: I'm pretty sure apt/dpk have the required options, just need do-release-upgrade to pass them..
[10:23] <Jibadeeha> HazRPG, so i could put an alert in the feed on my webserver for the calendar to pick up - sounds easy enough
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: patches welcome, I guess ;)
[10:23] <screen-x> ;)
[10:24] <HazRPG> so you could have it set to send an SMS as soon as a new event has been found, or you could have it so that it's sent closer to the date (like few days/hrs) that you've set it for
[10:25] <HazRPG> just make sure you add a few minutes or so onto the stamp you put in your feed to allow for uploading/download etc
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> if you use the gdata API to add the event to a google calendar, it can be almost instant
[10:25] <HazRPG> otherwise it might just count it as being in the past and not send an sms
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> and you don't need web space to upload an ics to
[10:26] <popey> morning all
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
[10:26] <HazRPG> could do it that way too...
[10:27] <HazRPG> Jibadeeha: the whole thing is well documented if you just search for it
[10:30] <czajkowski> hmmm
[10:31] <popey> HMMMMMM indeed!
[10:32] <HazRPG> popey: \o hi :)
[10:36] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: wow, that room looked empty!
[10:36] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: during the Q&A
[10:37] <screen-x> Bought otterbox case for HTC Desire, not quite as sturdy as it looks in the pics, but fits well.
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's not a celebrity speaker :)
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's*
[10:37] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might have to re-watch that later when I can fully take in what he's saying... I don't think I've ever done it that way before, I do tend to do a lot of the other stuff that he talks about
[10:38] <HazRPG> I always try to write things in such a way that classes aren't trying to connect too much into other classes, but that's just me
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?LawOfDemeter
[10:40] <HazRPG> heeh
[10:40] <HazRPG> hehe*
[10:42] <HazRPG> right, I've gotta grab some zzz's before my brain melts
[10:42] <HazRPG> might be back online in 6hrs or so
[10:43] <screen-x> HazRPG: sleep well :)
[10:43] <HazRPG> toodles o/
[10:43] <HazRPG> screen-x: will do :)
[10:43]  * HazRPG might wait for electricsheep to run before leaving ^^
[10:48] <popey> AlanBell: upgraded ubuntu-uk.org to wordpress 3.1, looks like nothing is broken
[10:53] <czajkowski> popey: you're missing over there
[10:53] <czajkowski> popey: AlanBell is at the plugfest
[10:55] <AlanBell> popey: great
[10:57]  * czajkowski waves at AlanBell 
[11:02] <davmor2> morning all
[11:07] <popey> YES!
[11:12] <danfish> popey: ??????????
[11:12] <popey> ??????????????????????????????????????????
[11:13] <danfish> heh - YES! to what? Won the lottery?
[11:13]  * mungojerry wonders if he could buy a real gold crown for his head at the price he just paid the dentist for a little one on his tooth
[11:16]  * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
[11:20] <dwatkins> popey has changed languages, we may never understand him again...
[11:20] <popey> BEEF!
[11:20] <dwatkins> are you talking in hex now?
[11:23] <danfish> dwatkins: no - mad cow disease. It's finally got him ;)
[11:26]  * exobuzz backs away slowly from popey
[11:31] <kaushal> Can someone recommend complete replacement of Outlook 2007 on MS Windows XP including Calendar/Meeting Rooms in a suitable Email Client on Ubuntu ?
[11:31] <czajkowski> davmor2: dealing with old school boys club
[11:31] <czajkowski> :(
[11:31] <czajkowski> so not nice
[11:32] <BigRedS> kaushal: what sorts of servers do you need to speak to? There's not a lot that speaks Exchange very well
[11:32] <davmor2> czajkowski: :D this from the woman from the all girls club right,  do they know what they let themselves in for?
[11:32] <kaushal> Microsoft Exchange Server 2007
[11:32] <czajkowski> davmor2: oh I got told it was just the dutch mannerism
[11:33] <czajkowski> by tthe british buy who then started to pat my arm also
[11:33] <BigRedS> I've never had much success making free software talk to Exchange. MS don't like people doing that, so they do try to make it hard
[11:33] <exobuzz> joggler users: new jolicloud - xbmc installed by default as well as mplayer with vaapi support) - http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/ (and squeezeplay as before)
[11:33] <screen-x> kaushal: the standard answer is google apps, but that is just as proprietary exchange..
[11:33] <BigRedS> Evolution's probably as close as you'll get
[11:33] <davmor2> czajkowski: haha!
[11:33] <czajkowski> :(
[11:33] <popey> screen-x: depends what the motivation is
[11:33] <popey> screen-x: if the motivation is to "get off exchange" then google apps is fine :)
[11:34] <popey> screen-x: if the motivation is "get control of our own mail and get off exchange" then may not ;)
[11:34] <BigRedS> ah, I thought it was just 'replace Outlook'
[11:34] <popey> well, we dont know do we, limited spec :)
[11:34] <BigRedS> "complete replacement of Outlook 2007 on  MS Windows XP including Calendar/Meeting Rooms
[11:34] <BigRedS> " sounds very client-side
[11:34] <exobuzz> i couldnt handle evolution.. went to thunderbird,. evolutions odd way of searching just sucked vs thunderbirds lovely full text index
[11:34] <screen-x> BigRedS: complete replacement, includes server..?
[11:35] <BigRedS> thunderbird 3's way of searching irritates the hell out of me
[11:35] <exobuzz> but of course it has that server client support
[11:35] <BigRedS> screen-x: not if it's for Outlook. That's the client
[11:35] <popey> kaushal: can you be more specific about which bits need replacing?
[11:35] <exobuzz> BigRedS, i really like it. its lovely and quick
[11:35]  * BigRedS wants exobuzz's evolution
[11:35] <mungojerry> BigRedS: the thunderbird 3 search is great for me
[11:35] <BigRedS> er, thunderbird
[11:35] <screen-x> BigRedS: ah yes.. I tend to lump them together.
[11:35] <exobuzz> BigRedS, and tyou have both quick message filter and full search ;-)
[11:35] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-February/240387.html
[11:35] <popey> looks like just the client
[11:35] <BigRedS> Every time I do a search, my pc freezes for about twenty seconds
[11:35] <exobuzz> and evolution devleopment is SLOOW
[11:36] <mungojerry> BigRedS: did you upgrade from evo 2 ?
[11:36] <exobuzz> evolutions search is way slower than thunderbirds though
[11:36] <mungojerry> i had problems in tb2
[11:36] <mungojerry> and trashed my local cache and started again
[11:37] <exobuzz> mostly i wish ubuntu didnt integrate "their" choice of apps as much as they do. i dont user the evolution calendar, so remove it from the panel..
[11:37] <mungojerry> re: kaushal question, there's also a proxy app that can sit between exchange and your client to talk "exchange", i froget the name now tho
[11:38] <BigRedS> mungojerry: nah, I meant tb. tb's always been freeze-happy for me, but now the searches take longer 'cause I keep getting the 'search everything' bar by mistake
[11:38] <mungojerry> BigRedS: usually i use the tb3 "filter these messages" box, but occasionally use global search which isn't bad either, but used to be worse in lower versions
[11:39] <mungojerry> how many gb's is your mailstore
[11:39] <BigRedS> If I do the global search, it also does all teh folders i'm subscribed to, which is several million messages
[11:39] <mungojerry> ugh
[11:39] <BigRedS> 'cause it doesn't bother to do imap properly, and insists on having *every* message from the last ten years
[11:40] <mungojerry> i turn off the download/store locally stuff
[11:40] <BigRedS> yeah, even so it wants all those headers
[11:41] <mungojerry> i used evo 24x7 against my zimbra server for a year, then switched to tb in 2010 & 2011
[11:41] <mungojerry> evo used to crash on me all the time without a trace
[11:41] <exobuzz> well. isnt it great we have a choice of FREE mail clients. so we can all use the ones we like ;-)
[11:41] <mungojerry> especially when i went near the calendar
[11:41]  * popey notes that kaushal has disappeared
[11:42] <mungojerry> lol
[11:42] <mungojerry> it's a bit like asking for directions in a room full of men
[11:43] <screen-x> mungojerry: ask the question, wait for them to start arguing about the best route, then run away?
[11:43] <exobuzz> a friend sent me an animated gif that killed my evolution dead some years back. was a gtkhtml or something issue i guess.
[11:43] <screen-x> exobuzz: thats a compatibility feature with outlook
[11:43] <exobuzz> heh
[11:44] <exobuzz> still got the gif! http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/animated.gif
[11:44] <exobuzz> tis a lot of frames
[11:44] <screen-x> sfw/
[11:44] <exobuzz> yeh it's safe
[11:44] <exobuzz> tis the whole intro sequence to turrican 2 as a gif anim ;-)
[11:45] <exobuzz> the same gif also brought down mediawiki
[11:45] <screen-x> chrome seems ok with it
[11:45] <exobuzz> yeh the browsers seemed happy.
[11:46] <exobuzz> mediawiki used imagemagick and it decoded it in ram frame by frame. wasnt very happy
[11:47] <mungojerry> vmware-tools insists on creating a xorg.conf even when X isn't installed :(
[11:50]  * BigRedS is reminded of mongodb
[11:50] <BigRedS> that pulled in a shedload of x-dependent bits and pieces
[11:50] <mungojerry> was there a webos tablet launch yesterday?
[11:51] <popey> i saw a video of an HP one on click.
[11:51] <popey> from mobile world congress
[11:51] <popey> but they wouldn't let the reporter use it
[11:51] <screen-x> the hp touchpad isnt released
[11:51] <mungojerry> i reckon if i had a tablet i'd get one of these things to go with it : http://www.senacases.com/apple/apple-ipad-cases/keyboard-folio/
[11:51] <mungojerry> (minus the ipad)
[11:52] <screen-x> atrix style
[11:52] <davmor2> popey: do me a favour open up gwibber drag you scrollbar to the bottom and then use your mouse/trackpad to scroll down again is it the top of you feeds again only at the bottom?
[11:52] <popey> davmor2: at work, no ubuntu, sorry
[11:52] <popey> davmor2: i have filed a bug about it
[11:52] <popey> i bugged ken about it and he said he'd take a look
[11:52] <davmor2> popey: I thought that was it showed as you scrolled
[11:52] <popey> its various manifestations of the same thing IMO
[11:53] <davmor2> ah okay :)
[11:53]  * mungojerry has no unity launcher or panel today :(
[11:53] <mungojerry> after running last nihts updates
[11:54] <mungojerry> unity --reset doesn't fix either
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> back to classic gnome :)
[11:55] <davmor2> mungojerry: ditto
[11:56] <mungojerry> davmor2, makes me feel better :)
[11:56] <davmor2> ubuntu1 is going potty too
[11:58] <mungojerry> how can i stop u1?
[11:58] <popey> u1sdtool mungojerry
[11:59]  * czajkowski dislikes disorder
[11:59] <screen-x> cat /stuff/cz* |sort
[12:00]  * czajkowski sends screen-x to the naughty step with davmor2 and MooDoo 
[12:00] <screen-x> wut? I was being helpful..
[12:02] <mungojerry> arggh i wish alt-f2 worked in unity
[12:02] <screen-x> it dosen't? is there an alternative?
[12:02] <davmor2> screen-x: My job to annoy czajkowski your job to calm and sooth don't mix them up it confuses her else bless ;) (that should get you off the naughty step incase I become a bad influence)
[12:03] <screen-x> mungojerry: does gnome-do work?
[12:03] <AlanBell> mungojerry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
[12:03] <screen-x> "special mode" haha
[12:05] <mungojerry> AlanBell: thanks but launcher is not appearing right now
[12:05] <popey> :( 500 error on the wiki
[12:05] <popey> le sigh
[12:05] <mungojerry> gonna revert to classic mode :)
[12:06]  * popey notes that some of those features dont work
[12:07] <mungojerry> unity-panel-service: no process found: ...
[12:09] <AlanBell> mungojerry: if you or anyone else discover additional keystrokes please add to that page
[12:11] <mungojerry> sure
[12:32] <gord> woo, only have to be at uds for three days this time, traveling during the week \o/
[12:39] <SuperMatt> guys, is there a nice easy way to dump your current PPAs to a file so I can get it back later?
[12:41] <dogmatic69> cp path/to/ppa path/to/tmp
[12:41] <SuperMatt> I don't know where ppa information is stored
[12:41] <dogmatic69> i cant remember right now either, but i was deleting some the other day
[12:42] <dogmatic69> its just a bunch of txt files
[12:45] <Tommeh> SuperMatt: Just backup /etc/apt/sources.list & /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[12:45] <Tommeh> Unless you've added PPAs manually via editing the sources.list, you should find that the sources.list.d directory contains all of your PPA information.
[12:46] <SuperMatt> tbh, I've looked at my ppas and there's only a couple I really need, so I've marked them down
[12:46] <SuperMatt> cba to copy info
[12:53]  * mungojerry is debugging latex documents :(
[12:53] <Tommeh> SuperMatt: in some cases, all you need is a mental list :)
[12:55] <daubers> Afternoon
[12:57] <daubers> Anyone a genius with python and TarFile?
[12:57] <Tommeh> Isn't there a #python for that? :)
[12:57] <Tommeh> I mean, if you're really trying to narrow down the ones that know the most about python.
[12:57] <daubers> Tommeh: Yeah, not really had much like in #python
[12:57] <Tommeh> Ahh
[13:03] <mungojerry> from what i've seen #ubuntu-uk is the place to go with windows problems, food hygeine, and android issues :)
[13:04] <mungojerry> i hear it's better than google+wolfram alpha for producing worthwhile results :)
[13:05] <Tommeh> I must remeber to debug the firmware issues in my routers here next time :p
[13:07] <gord> woo another angry letter from tv licensing because i don't want to watch tv
[13:08] <mungojerry> the iplayer thing sure is a big loophole
[13:08] <gord> i don't even use that
[13:08] <mungojerry> :)
[13:08] <dwatkins> I thought you needed a license to watch iPlayer?
[13:08] <gord> they just don't seem to understand what "i don't watch broadcast tv" means
[13:08] <daubers> gord: Ring them up and threaten them with action because the bad wording of the letter suggests you must pay a licence even if you don't have a TV
[13:08] <daubers> gord: WFM :)
[13:08] <kvarley> dwatkins: Only the live streams
[13:09] <kvarley> dwatkins: The ondemand stuff doesn't come under the tv license I dont think
[13:09] <dwatkins> kvarley: aha I see
[13:09] <mungojerry> for the memory
[13:09] <mungojerry> s/memory/moment
[13:09] <kvarley> dwatkins: Not sure though, we have a TV license anyway
[13:10] <dwatkins> kvarley: I just moved my license with me when I moved house, the BBC is good enough I feel it's only fair to pay for it
[13:10] <kvarley> dwatkins: Ah ok, they are good but could be better :P
[13:10] <mungojerry> think the bbc shouldn't produce tosh though
[13:10] <kvarley> dwatkins: Proper support for linux would be nice
[13:11] <mungojerry> populist trash soaps etc aren't exactly what the bbc was created for
[13:11] <kvarley> Their air installer never, ever, worked for me :/
[13:11] <mungojerry> if it was called ilinux you'd be sure it got the support it deserved
[13:12] <mungojerry> the android app is really poor too
[13:12] <kvarley> It's basically just their website
[13:12] <kvarley> mungojerry: It's alright I guess but the fact it uses flash means it crashes half way through a tv episode usually
[13:13] <mungojerry> get_iplayer is what u need
[13:13] <kvarley> And you have to have the screen turned on while using the app which is annoying when you want to listen to the radio
[13:13] <kvarley> mungojerry: Yes indeed
[13:13] <mungojerry> actually flash has improved latetly
[13:13] <daubers> Woot!
[13:13] <daubers> Finally got the damn thing to do what I want
[13:13]  * daubers puts the sledgehammer away
[13:13] <mungojerry> until recently the flash player would pop out of full scren every 5 mins
[13:14] <dwatkins> kvarley: I suspect it's just a matter of browser market share that means linux isn't supported (although that's probabyl a chicken and egg situation)
[13:15] <mungojerry> and also the decision makers at the bbc are trendy isheep who don't realise that standards and open-friendly stuff is important
[13:16] <mungojerry> doc files clicked from the internet now open in my firefox browser, i've been wanting this for years :)
[13:16] <mungojerry> i just never realised it was possible
[13:17] <kvarley> mungojerry grats
[13:18] <kvarley> dwatkins: hehe...iSheep
[13:19] <dwatkins> kvarley: I havn't had any problems with iplayer in the last couple years from linux
[13:29] <BigRedS> What's the current favourite for a small plug server?
[13:30] <BigRedS> Er, I meant cheap. Small is sort-of implicit in the term 'plug server'
[13:34] <danfish> BigRedS: guruplug
[13:35] <BigRedS> danfish: hah, that's the only one I've found so far, too :) cheers!
[13:38] <andylockran> howdy
[13:39] <danfish> BigRedS: :)
[13:39] <danfish> o/ andylockran
[13:39] <andylockran> hows things?
[13:42] <andylockran> please don't kick me
[13:42] <andylockran> phew
[13:43] <popey> also
[13:43] <popey> (
[13:43] <andylockran> what's up ?
[13:43] <Laney> )
[13:45] <X3N> BigRedS: have you looked at pogoplug?
[13:45] <andylockran> popey: does banshee eat CPU on your machine?
[13:47] <andylockran> just disabled a few of it's plugins, and that's stopped the fan spinning :)
[13:48] <popey> andylockran: i do not use banshee
[13:48] <popey> i use spotify
[13:49] <andylockran> me also, however, some of my local mp3s are playing doubletime in spotify
[13:52] <andylockran> ah, actually, all my mp3s are playing doubletime
[13:54] <BigRedS> X3N: nope. I have noted that openWRT does pretty much all I want a plug server to do though...
[13:55] <BigRedS> ooh, it's certainly prettier
[13:55] <ali1234> bug 396268
[14:03] <ali1234> bug 396268
[14:03] <ali1234> \o/
[14:07] <daubers> 5000328623092
[14:07] <daubers> oops
[14:08] <mungojerry> daubers: is that your credit card number?
[14:08] <andylockran> I'm guessing it _was_
[14:09] <AlanBell> it isn't
[14:09] <AlanBell> fails luhn check
[14:09] <daubers> Nope, someone gave me a barcode reader to play with
[14:09] <daubers> I now have a document with every barcode in sight in it :)
[14:09] <mungojerry> i need one of those to inventorize my book collection
[14:09] <daubers> I think thats th barcode for some walkers crisps
[14:09] <daubers> 000200437774
[14:09] <daubers> 000200437774
[14:09] <daubers> 000200437774
[14:09] <daubers> 000200437774
[14:09] <daubers> 000200437774
[14:09] <daubers> Blast, wrong focus
[14:09] <andylockran> 4929492949294929
[14:09]  * DJones kicks daubers for spam
[14:10] <daubers> Sorry :(
[14:10]  * andylockran has a barcode reader to hand :)
[14:10] <daubers> Focused on the wrong window
[14:10] <gord> i learnt the other day that barcodes actually just have the data they contain written underneath them
[14:10] <gord> i mean, i knew that sometimes the shop people put in numbers, but i thought they were just *magic* numbers that only they knew
[14:10] <mungojerry> lol
[14:11] <mungojerry> andylockran are you using the podcast extension as per the banshee bug
[14:14] <mungojerry> my banshee uses 10% cpu
[14:14] <ali1234> the BPM plugin also causes high CPU
[14:15] <mungojerry> i disable that one too,
[14:15] <ali1234> you basically have to disable all plugins
[14:15] <mungojerry> i disable everything i would never use
[14:15] <ali1234> also 10% CPU is still obscenely high for an MP3 player
[14:17] <kaushal1> Hi
[14:17] <kaushal1> popey: back again
[14:17] <kaushal1> sorry was away for sometime
[14:18] <kaushal1> Please let me know about the post to the ubuntu users mailing list
[14:18] <mungojerry> ali1234, i disabled some plugins,...now 5%
[14:18] <mungojerry> i'm more concerned about my firefox spiking up to 50%
[14:18] <ali1234> nvidia?
[14:18] <popey> kaushal1: if you're going to ask a question, you might want to hang around for the responses
[14:19] <mungojerry> intel
[14:19] <popey> kaushal1: if you look at the logs for this channel you'll see people asked some further questions
[14:19] <popey> !logs
[14:26] <kaushal1> what does one mean by reclaim the inbox in Thunderbird ?
[14:27] <mungojerry> rhythmbox is using more CPU than my banshee
[14:29] <popey> kaushal1: its marketing
[14:29] <kaushal1> still not clear
[14:29] <BigRedS> it's just Thunderbird's slogan
[14:29] <popey> its just a marketing term for "use thunderbird"
[14:29] <popey> it doesn't _mean_ anything
[14:30] <kaushal1> oh ok
[14:30] <popey> other than "We're better"
[14:30] <kaushal1> popey: thanks
[14:30] <ali1234> still waiting for someone to make a desktop email client that is better than gmail's web interface
[14:30] <BigRedS> I find gmail's 'threading' _really_ irritating
[14:31] <popey> i love it
[14:31] <ali1234> i find evolution's "inbox soup" really irritating
[14:31] <popey> tasty
[14:31] <BigRedS> yes, I don't particularly like any other client, though :)
[14:31]  * TheOpenSourcerer very rarely uses gmail's web interface. It's  Thunderbird and K9 for me :-)
[14:32] <kaushal1> whats K9 ?
[14:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Android email client
[14:32] <popey> http://www.apple.com/uk/thunderbolt/
[14:32] <kaushal1> oh ok
[14:32] <popey> ooooo
[14:32] <gord> also a dog
[14:32] <davmor2> kaushal1: it's a dog in dr who
[14:32] <popey> which is funny because...
[14:32] <popey> 14:30:36 #ubuntu-community-team: < jcastro> BARK BARK HELLO POPEY BARK BARK
[14:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was a robot. Not a real dog.
[14:32] <popey> jcastro is also a dog
[14:33] <gord> uuugh BAD APPLE
[14:33] <gord> no
[14:33] <gord> we just started standardising on usb, lets not screw it up again :(
[14:33] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Shhhhh he's got ears doth he not hear
[14:34] <AlanBell> popey: throw your mac away, here comes a new one
[14:36] <ali1234> "Thunderbolt enabled products are compatible with existing DisplayPort  devices so you don’t have to go buy a new display to take advantage of a  Thunderbolt technology enabled computer." - unless your monitor only has DVI, VGA, and HDMI
[14:36] <mungojerry> arggh
[14:37] <mungojerry> sick of apple
[14:37] <popey> AlanBell: clearly
[14:37] <ali1234> it's an intel invention
[14:37] <mungojerry> "apple were instrumental in popularising usb"??
[14:38] <mungojerry> as i recall, devices used to be firewire only didn't they?
[14:38] <ali1234> yes
[14:38] <shauno> I do believe they were the first vendor to ditch legacy ports completely  (where fw isn't legacy ;)
[14:38] <ali1234> apple was basically the only computer that came with firewire as standard
[14:38] <gord> yes but it sounds bad to say "we made firewire and then usb beat us"
[14:38] <mungojerry> lol
[14:38] <ali1234> everyone else had to buy a PCI card
[14:38] <ali1234> gord: exactly, yeah
[14:38]  * AlanBell has a video camera with firewire, and a laptop without :(
[14:38] <mungojerry> even now, they hardly give many usb ports on their devices
[14:39] <shauno> everyone thought they were crazy when they ditched floppies, and moved mice & keyboards to usb.  and now they pretend it never happened :)
[14:39] <ali1234> nobody puts enough damn USB ports on their devices
[14:39]  * BigRedS 'only' has three usb sockets on his laptop, and still hasn't managed to run out
[14:39] <gord> i ahve one usb socket on my netbook, still not run out there either
[14:40] <mungojerry> apple users have been conned into thinking usb doesn't matter because they can buy apples wireless bluetooth keyboard, etc
[14:40] <ali1234> when you plug your laptop into a keyboard and mouse, then you only have 1 port left
[14:40] <ali1234> in the case of my netbook, that port is used by the bluetooth donle
[14:40] <ali1234> so then i can't plug in a usb flash drive
[14:40] <shauno> I don't think I've been conned at all.  and I find being told what I'm thinking to be rather offensive.
[14:40] <gord> if i enable bluetooth on my netbook the wifi doesn't work... so i don't use bluetooth
[14:41] <ali1234> reverse here
[14:41] <ali1234> wifi is too unreliable, so i always use bluetooth for transfering files
[14:41] <BigRedS> ali1234: that I can understand, but I never plug in a usb keyboard, and very rarely a mouse
[14:42] <BigRedS> the last time I had a laptop as my main PC, and so did want that, I had a usb hub that connected all the gubbinses in one go
[14:42]  * daubers forsees the new MacBooks having Mobos riddled with issues due to esseintially having two northbridge chips to take advantage of this new connector
[14:42] <shauno> BigRedS: that's pretty much what I do.  a poor-man's docking station :)
[14:43] <ali1234> i haven't run out of usb ports on my desktop yet, but specifically bort a motherboard with 12 USB sockets and firewire
[14:43] <ali1234> bort?
[14:43] <ali1234> really?
[14:43] <BigRedS> shauno: hah, yep. I did know someone who, with duct-tape and cardboard wedges, aligned all his plugs along the back of his desk so he could just slide his laptop back into it and everything was plugged in :)
[14:43] <gord> bort is a perfectly cromulant word
[14:44] <shauno> BigRedS: hah, I haven't gone that far.  but moved as much as I sensibly could onto a hub so I don't have to replug 8 devices
[14:49] <Mez> is it just me, or are natty's notifications missing the bottom and right fades?
[14:53] <gord> Mez, works fine here
[14:54] <andylockran> Mez: what driver are you using?
[14:54] <Mez> intel, afaik
[14:55] <Cepheus> my desktop is economy; I have 6 USB ports and no firewire
[14:55] <gord> Mez, screenshot?
[14:55] <Mez> gord, just pushing it now
[14:56] <Mez> http://img41.imageshack.us/i/screenshotbd.png/
[14:57] <Mez> ok, is imageshack stupidly slow?
[14:57] <gord> tis
[14:57] <Mez> Well, the image is there anyway
[14:57] <gord> waiting for the zoomed in view... wonder if it will ever load
[14:59] <Mez> http://ubuntuone.com/p/en4
[14:59] <andylockran> how to kill ubuntu one in natty?
[14:59] <gord> Mez, i asked, its a known bug. it'll be fixed in the next release ;)
[14:59] <popey> andylockran: define kill
[15:00] <andylockran> at the moment I log in and i just get the background
[15:00] <andylockran> ubuntuone-syncd is going crazy
[15:00] <Mez> gord... in... orange orangutan ? (or whatever)
[15:00] <andylockran> yet each time i kill it, it comes back :)
[15:00] <gord> Mez, next notify-osd release :P
[15:00] <Mez> gord :D
[15:00] <gord> hopefully this weekend
[15:00] <andylockran> is there a cli interface to prevent auto-login ?
[15:01] <davmor2> andylockran: it's an issue with lib unity apparently should get fixed soonish
[15:01] <Mez> ew.... auto-login ?
[15:01] <Mez> andylockran: yesterday I had a notifcation every 10s that ubuntu one couldn't gonnect to server.
[15:01]  * Mez slaps aquarius
[15:01] <davmor2> andylockran: just click on the don't notify on reports from this app and it will stop
[15:02] <andylockran> davmor2: sure - that's what i've done - but nothing loads past showing the wallpaper
[15:02] <andylockran> it's a very nice wallpaper (not my face) - but I could do with some 'added functionality'
[15:03] <davmor2> andylockran: that's the libunity issue,  hit the power button restart, when you click on you're name at gdm change the drop down to classic desktop for now
[15:03] <andylockran> davmor2: how do I disable auto-login :p
[15:03] <gord> or ctrl+alt+f1 - type unity
[15:04] <davmor2> gord: no it's broken
[15:04]  * Mez hasn't bothered with unity.
[15:04] <andylockran> yeah, core dump on accessibility loading
[15:04] <Mez> Its confusing as hell for me.
[15:04] <gord> really? i don't get that
[15:04] <Mez> I should report bugs on it really... but meh
[15:04] <Mez> btw
[15:05] <gord> upgraded lately?
[15:05]  * Mez slaps davmor2
[15:05] <andylockran> moi, I upgraded at lunchtime
[15:05] <davmor2> Mez: what for?
[15:05] <Mez> gord, yes.  This is a fresh install from a couple of days ago.
[15:05] <Mez> gord: simply put, it only allows me to find an app by searching, but doesn't allow me to search...
[15:05] <andylockran> Can someone goole how to disable auto-login.. I've got no other machine to hand...
[15:05] <gord> Mez, not you :P
[15:05] <Mez> (confusing description, but meh)
[15:05] <Mez> davmor2: for being you :P)
[15:06] <gord>  i don't need opinions on unity today
[15:06] <andylockran> no worries
[15:06] <andylockran> it's in the gdm/custom.conf file I think.
[15:06] <Mez> andylockran: vim /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[15:06] <gord> andylockran, load up a vt, type DISPLAY=:0 gnome-panel
[15:06] <gord> and maybe DISPLAY=:0 metacity --replace
[15:07] <andylockran> gord: yeah, tried that.. disabled auto-login in custom.conf and was able to change session
[15:07] <andylockran> thanks for your help
[15:07] <popey> i have discovered a new jolly jape
[15:08] <popey> you know those sugar sachets you get from restaurants
[15:08] <popey> you can feed one through the gap in the hinge of co-workers laptop
[15:08] <popey> then the sugar goes through the gap, and you end up with a bulb of sugar on both sides
[15:08] <popey> you can't pull it through, and can't push it through
[15:08] <popey> sugar everywhere over laptop
[15:08] <popey> \o/
[15:08] <gord> non of our laptops will ever be safe again
[15:09] <andylockran> popey: I hope you filed a bug.
[15:09] <DJones> daubers: Something like that, I think popey is the bug
[15:09] <DJones> That was for andylockran
[15:10] <daubers> DJones: I wondered...
[15:14] <popey> yay!
[15:14] <popey> sugar all over laptop
[15:14] <BigRedS> sweet!
[15:14] <BigRedS> today is obvious joke day
[15:14] <dogmatic69> anyone played urban terror?
[15:16] <andylockran> dogmatic69: too soon
[15:16] <gord> dogmatic69, i think i tried it many many years ago
[15:23] <dogmatic69> i just downloaded it...
[15:25] <dogmatic69> http://oi53.tinypic.com/28arcsp.jpg
[15:29] <gord> dogmatic69, run it in a window and maximise it, sdl sucks with multiple screens and does that
[15:29] <dogmatic69> gord: if i make it not full screen then its a little box and has no maximize button, just minimize and cloase
[15:29] <dogmatic69> close
[15:30] <gord> dogmatic69, increase the resolution in its options then
[15:30] <dogmatic69> 1600xwhatever
[15:30] <dogmatic69> that made it smaller o.o
[15:31] <andylockran> popey: geteting some strange behaviour in spotify
[15:31] <popey> good good
[15:31] <popey>  /join #spotify
[15:31] <popey> :)
[15:31] <andylockran> ta
[15:31] <popey> they are nice
[15:33] <andylockran> ta
[15:34] <diplo> Some advice guys, not overly ubuntu related but could be :)
[15:35] <diplo> We have some web hosting, after 3 failed htpasswd failure attempts they ban the IP
[15:35] <diplo> We don't want that, not sure how they are doing it, any suggestions on how they are doing it and secondly
[15:35] <diplo> Any ideas on a way of overiding with htaccess ??
[15:35] <diplo> Ta fanx
[15:35] <andylockran> fail2ban/denyhosts ?
[15:36] <andylockran> ah, in apache?
[15:38] <diplo> yeah
[15:38] <diplo> So our customer is trying to login, failed 3 times with htpasswd and the web hosts banned the IP
[15:38] <diplo> So want to over ride there settings
[15:40] <Tommeh> diplo: could be something like Atomic Secured Linux
[15:40] <Tommeh> Difference is that will (I believe, by default) lift the block after 10 minutes.
[15:42] <dwatkins> Sounds pretty severe to ban an IP like that; I could understand it with ssh, although I'd increase the threshold to 10.
[15:42] <Tommeh> Depends highly on the hosting
[15:42] <Tommeh> If you've got IPs routinely trying these all day long, it's a big drain on resources (not to mention what might happen if someone gets through)
[15:43] <Tommeh> Though having an outright, infinite rule again the IP, is a little bit OTT, in my eyes.
[15:43] <Tommeh> *against
[15:45] <BigRedS> diplo: you'll probably find that the block happens too early - the connection never gets as far as apache so there's nothing a .htaccess file can do
[15:47] <diplo> Exactly what I said to my colleagues dwatkins, fail2ban seems to read apache/error_log
[15:47] <BigRedS> fail2ban defaults to a 10 minute ban
[15:47] <diplo> So I'm guessing it reads the thaccess failures and then adds to iptables ban
[15:47] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:47] <diplo> This is permanent
[15:47] <diplo> :/
[15:47] <BigRedS> no, ten minutes later it removes the iptables rule
[15:48] <BigRedS> (by default)
[15:48] <diplo> Have to ask them to remove, just about to read up and see if there is way of whitelisting certain IP's rather than keep removing from blacklist
[15:48] <diplo> nah I mean the our hosts it doesn't remove it after 10, it's still there a day or so later
[15:49] <BigRedS> ahh, yeah, you can make it do that, which is slightly dumb :)
[15:50] <diplo> Yep, exactly what we said :P
[15:51] <BigRedS> It's odd, though - Fail2ban, when it works (and it does with apache) is pretty effective by default
[15:51] <BigRedS> it keeps track of bans, so if the same IP address keeps getting banned, the bans get longer
[15:51] <BigRedS> they've actively broken it
[15:52] <diplo> So may not be fail2ban, could be as tommy says be Atomic Secured or somethng
[15:52] <diplo> Not being overly helpful, but I can't stop customers being stupid @ typing
[15:52] <diplo> :P
[15:54] <BigRedS> hah, yeah. really, not letting you whitelist stuff is generally pretty dub
[15:54] <BigRedS> *dumb. 'cause they'll just get yet more support requests from you asking for unblocks
[15:56] <dwatkins> I assume you can't just change source IP address, diplo
[15:57] <diplo> Nope, but I was just wondering whether if I add "allow from x.x.x.x" into the local htaccess that it won't log failures
[15:59] <BigRedS> diplo: I don't think you can do http auth only to some IP addresses in pure apache
[16:00] <BigRedS> that'd be approximately what you're after, though
[16:00] <dwatkins> yeah, assuming it's processing the apache log, then if you can stop it logging failure, you're sorted
[16:00] <dwatkins> assuming you want to stop it logging all attempts to break in...
[16:01] <mungojerry> i have many users logging into server with fail2ban enabled - never had any complaints
[16:01] <diplo> yeah, this is basically just stopping our customers  customers looking at the site till it's ready
[16:01] <mungojerry> plus it does block a lot of jerks too..or at least limit them
[16:02] <diplo> I totally understand it for ssh/email protocols etc but for htpasswd I think it's just dumb, at least failure @ 3
[16:03] <mungojerry> so u think they are trawling the logs and running a cron script to ban via iptables?
[16:03] <dwatkins> diplo: can you call the hosting people to discuss it?
 So may not be fail2ban, could be as tommy says be Atomic Secured or somethng
[16:04] <Tommeh> Probably not, but worth asking.
[16:06] <diplo> Colleague already has and basically won't do jack
[16:06] <diplo> :P
[16:07] <dwatkins> diplo: that sounds like cause to consider switching hosting services, you should be able to escalate to someone who at least cares
[16:11] <mungojerry> sounds like classic british customer service :(
[16:11] <Tommeh> Ahem
[16:11]  * Tommeh is British and works for a hosting company
[16:11] <Tommeh> I therefore take offence ;)
[16:12] <jpds> Tommeh: Just another generalisation.
[16:14]  * dwatkins is British also
[16:14]  * dwatkins even works in customer services, so is doubly offended
[16:14] <diplo> I'd love to move, but don't want to move 80+ sites to find the nex tcompany is the same
[16:15] <diplo> Tommeh, who do you work for :) Someone worth recommending ?
[16:15] <daubers> Serious "Someone stop me wanting to attack this thing with a hammer" question
[16:15] <dwatkins> diplo: I could reccomend you a b2b hosting company, but I think my friend sold the business, so I wouldn't want to do so then for you to find it's the same as the company you're using.
[16:16] <daubers> I'm trying to control a tape drive through python with the ioctl commands, but getting no sense out of any of it
[16:16] <daubers> What the hell should I be doing?
[16:16] <Tommeh> diplo: dropped you a private message to avoid spamming the channel
[16:16] <diplo> ta
[16:28] <mungojerry> OT: "A woman in Brazil was  shocked to find an alligator hiding behind her sofa after heavy rains  flooded her house in the town of Parauapebas, in Para state.  She said she was alerted to the reptile's presence by her three-year-old son,  who was patting its head.  "
[16:28] <popey> heh
[16:28]  * mungojerry thinks his son would do the same..
[16:28] <popey> daubers: poking /dev/nmt type stuff?
[16:31] <Amanda__> Hi :)
[16:32] <Amanda__> I'm trying to compile Apache2 from source, when I come to the ./configure part, how can I use the same structure as the default one in ubuntu/debian?
[16:33] <Myrtti> is there a specific reason you're compiling it from source?
[16:33] <directhex> you can read the package's debian/rules file to see what it passed to configure
[16:33] <Amanda__> Myrtti: to play with the latest version
[16:34] <Myrtti> right.
[16:34] <Amanda__> directhex: is that, "./debian/rules binary" without the quotes
[16:35] <directhex> Amanda__, that's in order to execute one of the targets in debian/rules, which is a makefile.
[16:35] <directhex> Amanda__, if you open it in a text editor, you can read it to see what it's doing (likely in a configure or configure-stamp rule)
[16:36] <Amanda__> directhex: ill have a look, thanks
[16:38] <shauno> hm, that's fun.  apt-get source apache says to use 'bzr get http://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2' to grab the latest.  running that tells me it's not a branch
[16:44] <Amanda__> directhex: do i open the rules file?
 Amanda__, if you open it in a text editor, you can read it to see what it's doing (likely in a configure or configure-stamp rule)
[16:57] <Amanda__> directhex: sorry, where is the file please?
[16:57] <directhex> download the source package
[17:00] <andylockran> which software can be used to play blu-ray on ubuntu?
[17:00] <popey> VLC?
[17:00] <shauno> I really hope there's backups, because this sounds like it's sizing up to be an educational experience ;)
[17:01] <X3N> Amanda__: why not just install it with the default options?
[17:01] <bigcalm> andylockran: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/BluRayAndHDDVD
[17:02] <X3N> sudo apt-get build-dep apache2 && ./configure --prefix=/usr
[17:03] <popey>  /usr?
[17:03] <popey> rly?
[17:03] <X3N> that's the prefix that the package would install into
[17:04] <mungojerry> /usr/local/apache surely?
[17:04] <shauno> which is why it's a bad idea.  it'll take forever and a day to clean that up enough to have the package install sensibly in future
[17:05] <X3N> you can just reinstall from the package..
[17:05] <X3N> make uninstall if you want to as well
[17:09] <Amanda__> X3N: thanks but I just want to compile the latest apache2 with the same ./configure as the debian/ubuntu install does :)
[17:09] <mungojerry> x3n you should never overwrite software shipped with the OS with custom compiled stuff
[17:10] <shauno> I'd be more tempted to grab the source package from natty, and try to rebuild the .deb's on the current platform.  apache's not a simple package.  it's not even a single non-simple package.  fighting dpkg on home turf is never going to be pretty.
[17:11] <shauno> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/apache2 is 2.2.27, which is the latest on httpd.apache.org.  sources on the right.  take full advantage of the work the regular maintainer have already done.
[17:11] <shauno> er, 2.2.17
[17:11] <X3N> mungojerry, I compile software for my system all the time...
[17:14] <shauno> still not sure this is something I'd do just to get from .16 in maverick to .17 current ;)
[17:14] <X3N> if you compile and install an older version then yes, you'll get problems
[17:15] <X3N> and obviously if you use the package updates it'll overwrite your compiled version
[17:15] <Laney> ♥ seesmic in chromium --app mode ♥
[17:23] <Amanda__> shauno: how can you use natty apache2 on maverick?
[17:24] <shauno> grab the source package & build it
[17:25] <popey> is it worth it?
[17:25] <daubers> popey: Yup, it's horrid
[17:25] <daubers> re:tape stuff
[17:25] <popey> maverick has 2.2.16, natty has 2.2.17
[17:25] <daubers> dealing with all the structs is a bit of a pain, and figuring out what the IO commands are is also a bit of a pain
[17:26] <Amanda__> popey: i like bleeding edge
[17:27] <Amanda__> updates
[17:27] <popey> what does 2.2.17 give you that 2.2.16 didnt have?
[17:27] <popey> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.2.17-1ubuntu1/changelog
[17:27] <popey> doesnt look worth it
[17:27] <popey> just for a number
[17:27] <Amanda__> a higher version number
[17:28] <popey> http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.2.17
[17:29] <popey> and the administrative overhead that you will have to rebuild it bugs / security updates require it
[17:29] <popey> sounds OCD to me
[17:29] <Amanda__> ocd?
[17:29] <popey> Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
[17:30] <popey> people who want the latest version of stuff with no discernable reason other than "it's a higher number" smack of OCD to me
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> CDO, at least put the letters in the correct order 8-)
[17:30] <popey> MartijnVdS: last time someone cracked that joke, I spat port at them
[17:30] <popey> (as I laughed)
[17:31] <Amanda__> o.o
[17:31] <popey> Amanda__: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/130894/how-to-build-a-debian-ubuntu-package-from-source
[17:33] <Amanda__> I think ill just accept defeat
[17:33] <popey> It's not hard to do
[17:34] <popey> I have rebuild newer packages before, very easily
[17:34] <davmor2> Amanda__: Don't forget that the version in maverick has all the security updates backported to it and there is no guarantee that the natty version won't rely on something not available in maverick
[17:34] <popey> It's mostly just a pointless waste of time though :)
[17:35] <shauno> certainly not worth it just to get a bigger number.  if you had something specific you were trying to test, maybe
[17:35] <popey> well, it's a learning exercise, if nothing else
[17:35] <shauno> just tried it myself, it's complaining my version of libssl-dev is too old
[17:36] <shauno> eg, it's not going to be a non-minimal task to satisfy it
[17:36] <popey> you could use pbuilder :)
[17:36] <dutchie> pbuilder is cool
[17:36] <popey> it is
[17:37] <shauno> well, that machine is actively using libssl for things I'd rather didn't fall over :)  so I'm not going to push any further than idle curiousity
[17:38] <popey> :)
[17:38] <shauno> I'd pop open a fresh vm if it was going to be useful, but I'm not sure this is :)
[17:39] <Amanda__> why does ubuntu not have mysql 5.5.9?
[17:39] <Amanda__> only 5.1
[17:39] <Azelphur> Sigh, ordered stuff from deal extreme nearly 2 weeks ago and it hasn't even left the warehouse yet :/
[17:41] <popey> Amanda__: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.1/+bug/690925
[17:42] <popey> because nobody has packaged it yet
[17:43] <shauno> Azelphur: 2 weeks ago would have been just before chinese new year?  I'd poke 'em & make sure it hasn't been forgotten about over the holiday
[17:43] <Myrtti> popey: nice aversion ;-)
[17:43] <andylockran> anyone use lovefilm ?
[17:44] <Azelphur> shauno: yea, I just poked em
[17:44] <popey> I like surprises from there
[17:44] <popey> i order stuff then forget about it
[17:44] <Azelphur> haha
[17:45] <popey> i have ordered some proper tat from DE
[17:45] <shauno> that's what they're best at :D
[17:45] <Azelphur> omg, they have a ninja mask :o http://www.dealextreme.com/p/thermal-fleece-one-hole-balaclava-facemask-53822
[17:45] <Myrtti> hee, my sodastreamer dandelion&burdock concentrate has been shipped today
[17:45] <popey> I ordered some Hulk Smash gloves
[17:45] <Amanda__> popey: is mysql the only available database programme?
[17:45] <popey> utterly pointless
[17:45] <shauno> I got my pirate flag from DE :)
[17:46] <Azelphur> win \o/
[17:46] <Myrtti> nevermind that the shipping doubles the price, want d&b!
[17:46] <popey> Amanda__: no
[17:46] <popey> Amanda__: its one of the most common ones
[17:47] <Azelphur> haha, they have a G2 ripoff, http://www.dealextreme.com/p/a5000-lcd-touch-screen-android-dual-sim-dual-network-standby-quadband-gsm-tv-cell-phone-56402
[17:47] <popey> they have some awful cheap tablets
[17:47] <shauno> Amanda__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_relational_database_management_systems   knock yourself out.   mysql 5.1 is perfectly functional tho, and postgre is the "runner up" (debatably better at some tasks, but less mindshare).
[17:48]  * Azelphur looks
[17:48] <Myrtti> mmmm d&b
[17:48] <Amanda__> thanks
[17:48] <shauno> Amanda__: I would warn tho, that striving to have the absolutely latest version of everything is liable to come back to bite you.  it's called the 'bleeding edge' for a reason
[17:49] <ali1234> i thought postgre was generally considered to be better than mysql
[17:49] <popey> i think he meant in mindshare
[17:49] <popey> not in features/performance
[17:49] <ali1234> right, it's the betamax to mysql's vhs
[17:49] <popey> yes
[17:49] <popey> the squarial to mysql's dish
[17:49] <shauno> ali1234: bingo.  mysql's winning feature for me, is that it's available on every 2-bit host going
[17:49] <Azelphur> $93 is their cheapest, not bad :)
[17:50] <shauno> postgre is better at most other tasks, but mysql wins at availability
[17:50] <popey> Azelphur: see if you can get one that will run a PS2 EMY :)
[17:50] <popey> *emu
[17:50] <Azelphur> haha
[17:50] <Azelphur> I see a $129 one with an ARM 11 800Mhz
[17:50] <Azelphur> that might do it, specially if you overclock
[17:52] <Amanda__> I think the reason I've been going with bleeding edge was because i was brought up on windows
[17:53] <shauno> the key difference is that for changes that really matter (generally security & obvious stability fixes), they're merged back into the packages being currently shipped
[17:54] <dutchie> Amanda__: in unix-land, "stable" really does mean stable (most of the time)
[17:54] <dutchie> ;)
[17:57] <Amanda__> why is there so many linux disto's with most having the same software
[17:57] <Amanda__> seems a bit silly that
[17:57] <ali1234> because nobody can agree whether the window buttons should be on the left of the window, or the right of the window
[17:57] <ali1234> etc
[17:58] <Amanda__> take linux mint, the only difference that i can see is the start menu, so why not make it a package instead of another os
[17:59] <Tommeh> Mint has a bit of a different philosophy too. From what I remember, it includes non-free software.
[17:59] <ali1234> hmm... make a package? would that be deb, rpm, ebuild, or tarball?
[17:59] <Tommeh> Out of the box.
[17:59] <ali1234> if you pick the distro that is closest to what you want it saves a lot of time customizing everything
[18:01] <Myrtti> "install gentoo"
[18:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Amanda__: Take a look at this map - There are quite a few distributions http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/11.02/gldt1102.svg Most are made for a specific purpose or to scratch someone's itch. It's Free Software so you can...
[18:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> PS - You might need to change the zoom level a tad.
[18:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> ROTFL: http://www.damnvulnerablelinux.org/
[18:05] <shauno> hah, I hadn't seen that chart before.  both awesome and terrifying
[18:07] <shauno> kinda reminds me of the old 'unix family tree' one.
[18:07] <popey> i had that printed out and on my wall for a while
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> There's a png version too for those on inferior browsing technology
[18:08] <shauno> svg is fine, I'm on a mac :p
[18:11] <Amanda__> i think i'm going to go for a different tac tic
[18:11] <Amanda__> not worry about version numbers
[18:14] <shauno> just make sure you stay somewhat recent with the updates provided, and you'll be fine
[18:27] <Amanda__> Thanks everyone bye
[19:35] <n1md4> BigRedS: Game tonight?
[19:51] <kvarley> n1md4:  game of what?
[19:53] <bigcalm> Humm, server attacks?
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> Mars Attacks
[19:53] <bigcalm> Terrible film
[19:54] <shauno> I liked it :(
[19:54] <shauno> btw, shuttle launch in 2 hours if anyone's bored/nerdy.  http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ in various freedom-hating formats
[19:55] <n1md4> Alien Swarm
[19:56] <n1md4> kvarley: You're welcome to join us.
[19:56] <n1md4> kvarley: Do you have the game?  It's available free on Steam.
[19:57] <kvarley> n1md4: Steam...brrrrrrr *shivers down spine*
[19:57] <n1md4> :P
[19:57] <n1md4> I'll accept that as a no.
[19:57] <kvarley> I have steam but only for black ops which I rarely play
[19:58]  * n1md4 shrugs
[19:58] <n1md4> You asked ;)
[19:59] <bigcalm> Bring on Portal 2
[20:04]  * popey hugs vlc and http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163
[20:04] <popey> which gives a lovely quality video
[20:06]  * MartijnVdS looks around on Astra
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> someone _must_ be relaying it
[20:07] <bigcalm> Wow, that is great quality
[20:07]  * MartijnVdS has heard nice rumours about internet speed at work
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> too bad network management people almost had heart attacks when they heard them :)
[20:17] <popey> The following packages will be REMOVED ubuntu-desktop unity
[20:17] <popey> uhhh, no thanks
[20:17] <brobostigon> evening everyone.
[20:17] <popey> brobostigon: seen there's a shuttle launch later?
[20:18] <brobostigon> popey: i intend towatch, :)
[20:19] <brobostigon> popey: what time roughly ?
[20:19]  * DJones hasn't watched a shuttle launch since 1986
[20:22] <shauno> brobostigon: 21:50 our time
[20:22] <gord> little tip, thursdays are not good days to update on ;)
[20:22] <brobostigon> shauno: thank you, :)
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> gord: if it removes unity, it's the best day to update on, imho :P
[20:26] <gord> uhuh
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> it seems Apple hasn't renamed Mission Control and Launchpad
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/FE-y5sQ0Z7s/Mac-OS-X-107-Lion-Developer-Preview-Available
[20:40] <daubers> Evening
[20:40] <brobostigon> noswaith dda daubers
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[20:40] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[21:04] <brobostigon> micromen, bbc4, :)
[21:31] <AlanBell> evening peeps
[21:31] <popey> lo
[21:32] <brobostigon> evening AlanBell
[21:36] <bigcalm> Hi kids
[21:38] <brobostigon> evening bigcalm
[21:45] <bigcalm> Are there any web dev tools for Safari?
[21:49] <shauno> just the built-in inspector really
[21:50] <shauno> same as chrome's, it's in the wbekit engine
[21:56] <gord> finally updating my phone to gingerbread, woo
[21:58] <bigcalm> 2.3 or CM7?
[21:58] <gord> 2.3.3
[21:58] <Azelphur> my phone runs cm7 with a custom kernel >:)
[21:59] <brobostigon> that is both dangerous and exciting atthe same time, going in to space onthe top of a fire cracker.
[21:59] <bigcalm> CM7 stopped my N1 from being useable as a phone. So went back to 6.1.1
[21:59] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:00] <Azelphur> my G2 is fine on CM7
[22:00] <gord> i don't go in for all that custom rom stuff
[22:00] <brobostigon> no cm7 for my g1 :(
[22:00] <Azelphur> :(
[22:00] <brobostigon> although thecode is sitting there in their git.
[22:01] <ali1234> compile it then.........
[22:01] <brobostigon> ali1234: if i understood how, i would have alreadydone it.
[22:01] <Azelphur> brobostigon: is there anything >=2.3.2 for the G1?
[22:02] <ali1234> android is actually quite easy to build, you more or less just run a script and get an image
[22:02] <brobostigon> Azelphur: not with the cm tweaks you need for the g1, like keep messaging in memory.
[22:02] <Azelphur> ah :(
[22:03] <brobostigon> Azelphur: i did not know that.
[22:03] <Azelphur> brobostigon: you mean ali1234 :P
[22:03] <brobostigon> Azelphur: yes, sorry.
[22:04] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:04] <ali1234> but tbh if they didn't make an image it probably doesn't work right
[22:05] <brobostigon> ali1234: no aosp 2.3 build for g1 i have seen up to no, works right. but i dont see why it shouldnt.
[22:05] <brobostigon> or otherwise.
[22:05] <brobostigon> now*
[22:05] <ali1234> probably because the binary hardwawre drivers only work on an older kernel version that isn't new enough for 2.3
[22:06] <ali1234> the MSM kernel is a complete mess :(
[22:07] <brobostigon> however i hve tried an aosp 2.3 build for g1, and it worked mostly fine, however without certain tweaks, i mentioned earlier, it doesnt make things as good as they could be.
[22:08] <brobostigon> http://sandbox.devnull.name/android/gingerbread/
[22:09] <gord> ooooh 2.3 is pretty
[22:09] <brobostigon> like without, messaging in memory, sms can get dropped, when memory lacks sometimes.
[22:11] <ali1234> i'm still waiting for someone to give me an android phone...
[22:12] <gord> give? ;)
[22:12] <ali1234> yeah
[22:12] <ali1234> apparently HTC are not quite so desperate for app developers as nokia
[22:13] <gord> android doesn't have a problem with lack of app developers
[22:14] <ali1234> does HTC even have their own app store?
[22:14] <Azelphur> ali1234: don't think so, that sort of behaviour is discouraged by google I think
[22:15] <gord> eh no, few different retails have their own app stores, its fine on android
[22:15] <gord> don't know if htc do, its kinda dumb when people do do that
[22:15] <Azelphur> yea it's fine but it's discouraged I think
[22:15] <ali1234> i dunno why nokia is so obsessed with "ecosystems"
[22:15] <gord> its not discouraged
[22:15] <Azelphur> which it should be, unless you have a special case there's really no need to roll your own app store
[22:15] <ali1234> they are good at making hardware
[22:16] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[22:17] <gord> they are obsessed because they wanted to make android/iphone before those things existed, but it wasn't the right time. puzzled, they started questioning if they had enough app developers, what was wrong with their "ecosystem"
[22:17] <gord> in truth, nothing was wrong, it was just the wrong time
[22:17] <ali1234> if you buy one of these new nokia-wp7 it will likely have three appstores on it: ovi, microsoft, and the operator store
[22:18] <gord> is microsoft allowing app stores that aren't microsoft backed?
[22:18] <ali1234> well the thing is, all of them will be the same thing, rebranded
[22:18] <ali1234> so everyone will take a cut no matter which one you buy from
[22:19] <ali1234> basically it will just be a confusing mess for no reason, because everyone wants to be king of the "ecosystem"
[22:19] <ali1234> then you have intel's "appup"
[22:19] <gord> i am now going to take a photo of my phone using cheese then use my phone to take a photo of that photo. because its marginally easier to upload through my phone to picassa than it is otherwise
[22:20] <ali1234> which is basically a white-box appstore that anyone can rebrand
[22:21] <gord> hehe when you power off 2.3 it does an old tv like power off animation
[22:21] <gord> thats so nerdy
[22:21] <popey> going to a dot?
[22:21] <gord> well not quite a dot, but nearly
[22:22] <gord> if it just faded out a dot over 30 seconds like an old tv i would be convinced my phone was busted ;)
[22:22] <Azelphur> gord: indeed :D
[22:23] <Azelphur> gord: haha first time I saw it it startled me I thought it was broke :P
[22:24] <gord> geez, android games are crazy pretty now that there are tegra2 devices http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzGLmeuUV4c&feature=player_embedded
[22:24] <gord> i mean geez
[22:26] <Azelphur> gord: have you seen the playstation emulator?
[22:26] <ali1234> that video had better graphics than any platstation game
[22:26] <Azelphur> *shrug* have you seen the NDS emulator? :D
[22:27] <ali1234> i would say about equal to NDS
[22:27] <Azelphur> :)
[22:27] <Azelphur> there's an NDS emulator in the works, you can actually use it but it's not optimized at all yet so slower than a snail in reverse
[22:28] <ali1234> playstation is now 16 years old... wat
[22:28] <Azelphur> lol
[22:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Goodbye, Rory - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/02/24/goodbye-rory
[22:42] <gord> i have a nintendo ds, don't need an emulator thanks :P
[22:42] <gord> eeee i'll have a 3ds in a month
[22:43] <popey> what kind of ds do you have?
[22:55] <jacobw> what does one do when the parents buy a new netbook with XP, expect you to set it up and say "well, i want this one to stay a windows computer"
[22:55] <jacobw> so fustrating. i'm not interested in furthering the use of 10 year old operating systems :|
[22:55]  * jacobw rants
[22:55] <rattleStuff> i'd advise installing ubuntu and saying 'what netbook?'
[23:00]  * jacobw waits for 11.04 to be released with new netbooky goodness
[23:00] <popey> :)
[23:01] <AlanBell> how do I pipe stderr as well as stdout into pastebinit?
[23:03] <AlanBell> never mind, found it
[23:04] <Thingymebob> anyone running natty?
[23:04] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/571958/
[23:04] <AlanBell> Thingymebob: in a VM, but not right now, unity is broken for me
[23:05] <Thingymebob> Yeah been using it with classic desktop. Updated Today and totally killed networking, no wireless no wired!
[23:06] <popey> yes, today was a bad day to update
[23:06] <jacobw> is anyone watching question time?
[23:06] <Thingymebob> Oh yes! Glad I still have maverick on here
[23:09]  * Cepheus shakes fist at mercurial
[23:10] <popey> :)
[23:11] <Cepheus> it's times like these I wish Unity run on linux. Stuck on windows doing dev stuff.
[23:12] <Cepheus> *ran
[23:12] <Cepheus> (the gaming engine, not the shiny new desktop in the upcoming Natty
[23:12] <gord> popey, ds lite at the moment, was going to order a dsi XL because those look great but they announced the 3ds that week ;)
[23:14]  * brobostigon tries a new gingerbread for g1 build.
[23:14] <AlanBell> gord: is there a quick fix I can do to get past a unity core dump following GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.desktop.interface' does not contain a key named 'accessibility'
[23:14] <AlanBell> would adding that key to gconf or something be a good plan?
[23:15] <gord> AlanBell, latest version? did a new release today
[23:15] <AlanBell> yup
[23:16] <gord> the problem is that gnome switchd to gsettings and they didn't update the accessibility stuff to gsettings, they  just left it using gconf. which means the schema doesn't exist in gsettings. its a pain, don't know what the fix is right now
[23:16] <AlanBell> from this afternoon, I will update/dist-upgrade again now
[23:16] <popey> gord: what colour ds lite?
[23:16] <gord> i'm sure i can find one, but tomorrow, i'm "off the clock" :)
[23:17] <gord> popey, ruby red of course!
[23:17] <popey> :)
[23:17] <hamitron> evening all
[23:17] <popey> lo
[23:17] <Cepheus> my black DS lite is looking a little worse for wear. :(
[23:18] <gord> with an apple green stylus, because i think clashing colours look good, i don't care what people say
[23:18] <hamitron> they do :)
[23:18] <gord> words can't bring me down
[23:18] <hamitron> colours must either match perfectly, or clash, else it looks wrong
[23:22] <popey> hmm
[23:22] <popey> launchpad seems ill
[23:22] <popey> alan@mbp:~$     bzr branch lp:ubiquity
[23:22] <popey> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: Couldn't resolve host 'xmlrpc.launchpad.net' [Errno -2] Name or service not known
[23:22] <popey> alan@mbp:~$ host xmlrpc.launchpad.net
[23:22] <popey> xmlrpc.launchpad.net has address 91.189.89.224
[23:22] <popey> xmlrpc.launchpad.net has address 91.189.89.225
[23:22] <gord> ouch
[23:23] <popey> is it just me?
[23:23] <Cepheus> bazaar acting bizarre
[23:23] <Cepheus> heh.
[23:24] <gord> popey, seems to work here
[23:31] <AlanBell> yay, done a dist-upgrade that failed, did dist-upgrade -f, that uninstalled unity /o\
[23:32] <popey> i have switched to safe-upgrade
[23:32] <AlanBell> bother, and it broke networking /o\
[23:32]  * AlanBell goes to bed. Night all
[23:33] <popey> nn
[23:33] <popey> Golly, Movies4Men really is shockingly bad telly
[23:34] <Cepheus> i tend to ignore the telly for the most part
[23:55] <Thingymebob> Yay \o/ fixed!
[23:55] <brobostigon> i am watching quadrophenia, and sting definatly cant dance.
[23:57] <popey> Aliens :)
[23:57] <popey> on ITV+1289
[23:58] <Cepheus> where's my ITV -1?
[23:58] <Cepheus> that'd be handy for the grand national
[23:58] <brobostigon> :)