[15:53] <marjo> hi ara!
[15:53] <ara> hello marjo :)
[15:54] <skaet_> hi marjo, ara,  - cool,  we'll have a crisp start.  :)
[15:57] <marjo> skaet: i think it's going to be a lively start!
[15:58]  * joshuahoover waves
[15:58] <rsalveti> skaet_: I'll be replacing ogra today
[15:59] <rsalveti> for arm
[15:59] <Daviey> o/
[15:59] <mvo> hello, I'm here for Colin
[15:59] <skaet_> thanks rsalveti, mvo :)
[15:59] <skaet_> Daviey, you or zul today?
[16:00] <Daviey> skaet_, me
[16:00] <skaet_> coolio,  and on that note,  I guess its time to begin.  :)
[16:00] <skaet_> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet_.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <pitti> o/
[16:00] <skaet_> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet
[16:00] <skaet_> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-02-25
[16:00] <skaet_> Milestoned bugs for alpha3 can be found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33573.
[16:00] <skaet_> A3 release is March 3rd.
[16:00] <skaet_> A3 freeze is Feb 28 at 2300 UTC (for those who are pushing to the last minute to fix bugs :) )
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet
[16:00] <skaet_> There is alot of cruft in our bug database right now, and its showing up in the report.  I'd like to request the leads to please review the bugs in your section, and let me know which ones, in your opinion, are really critical to focus on for A3 over the next couple of days when you go through your status.
[16:00] <skaet_> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
[16:00] <skaet_> Any questions?
[16:01] <skaet_> ..
[16:01] <pitti> AWTY?
[16:01] <skaet_> ?
[16:01] <pitti> (ignore me, SCNR)
[16:01] <pitti> skaet_: "are we there yet"
[16:01] <skaet_> thanks pitti.  :)
[16:02] <skaet_> ok, not seeing any questions,  bug please let me know which bugs are critical in your mind (or if the critical ones are even on the list) when we get to your turn.
[16:02] <skaet_> time for the roundtable then...
[16:03] <skaet_> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
[16:03] <marjo> hi folks
[16:03] <marjo>  * Natty Alpha 3 Work Items
[16:03] <marjo>  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:03] <marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
[16:03] <marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-qa-n-testing-different-architectures
[16:03] <marjo>  On track.
[16:03] <marjo>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
[16:03] <marjo>  Work items blocked on: server ISO not installable
[16:03] <marjo>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-installer/+bug/724822
[16:03] <marjo>  Previously blocked on:
[16:03] <marjo>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/723148
[16:03] <marjo>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/724242
[16:04] <marjo>  QA Dashboard
[16:04] <marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
[16:04] <marjo> Note unity and xserver-xorg-video-intel are in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics.
[16:04] <marjo>  * Testing status:
[16:04] <marjo>  Desktop Automated Testing results
[16:04] <marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
[16:04] <marjo> jibel is investigating a failure with aboutme
[16:04] <marjo> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
[16:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
[16:04] <marjo>  Server Automated Testing results
[16:04] <marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
[16:04] <marjo>  22 failures are mostly due to images not installing.
[16:05] <marjo>  Automatic Upgrade Testing
[16:05] <marjo>   http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
[16:05] <marjo>   per mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/690873 and the main-all bug is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/715075
[16:05] <marjo> ..
[16:05] <skaet_> thanks marjo!
[16:05] <pitti> impressive increasing of #tests over time!
[16:06] <marjo> pitti: thx and QA team continuing to add tests
[16:06] <marjo> thx to jibel, patrickmw, pedro, hggdh, bdmurray
[16:06] <marjo> ..
[16:06] <skaet_> marjo,  which bugs are still blocking for A3 image creation right now?
[16:07] <skaet_> in what you're seeing?
[16:07] <marjo> skaet: a3 image creation?! i can't speak for that
[16:07] <jdstrand> skaet_: I plan to start looking at that stuff btw, now that we are past FF
[16:07] <skaet_> heh, should reword,  sorry.
[16:07] <jibel> skaet_, empathy is not installable
[16:07] <marjo> skaet: ??
[16:07] <jdstrand> skaet_: and fix what I am able to
[16:07] <skaet_> install blocking...
[16:07] <pitti> jibel: on amd64?
[16:07] <hggdh> the last known one was today's d-i bug (just fixed)
[16:07] <jibel> pitti, right,
[16:08] <pitti> jibel: fixed around noon
[16:08] <skaet_> jdstrand, jibel, hggdh - cool.  thanks!
[16:08] <pitti> was fallout from last night's unity and dbus update
[16:08] <marjo> skaet: ah, hggdh & jibel just answered that
[16:08] <skaet_> thanks
[16:08] <skaet_> any other questions?
[16:09] <pitti> skaet_: CD builds failed this morning due to aptdaemon, I fixed that
[16:09] <pitti> otherwise they should work
[16:09] <skaet_> pitti,  :D  thanks.
[16:09] <marjo> pitti: thx much!
[16:09] <skaet_> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - ara
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - ara
[16:09] <hggdh> of interest is bug 723482, which seems to affect installations with multiple filesystems
[16:09] <ara> Hello!
[16:10] <ara> This week has been a bit of a nightmare in terms of testing. We haven't had a good image all week, so we were not able to test Natty in our labs.
[16:10] <ara> The alternate image had 3 issues (one new everyday):
[16:10] <ara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723148
[16:10] <ara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724242
[16:10] <ara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724822
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/723148
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/724242
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/724822
[16:10] <ara> The Live Cd has a memory leak, that it is preventing us for testing it as well:
[16:10] <ara> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/714829
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/714829
[16:10] <marjo> ara: bugs look familiar :)
[16:10] <ara> Good news on the Live CD: Daniel is testing the fix proposed in the above bug, and he thinks that it might solve the issue. He needs to do some more investiagation.
[16:10] <ara> Let's hope next week we get a good image that finishes installation and we can go back to our HW testing and bootchart metrics.
[16:10] <ara> ..
[16:11] <skaet_> thanks ara.
[16:11] <marjo> ara: thx looking forward to it!
[16:11] <skaet_> any questions?
[16:11] <skaet_> hggdh,  bug noted.   thanks.
[16:12] <skaet_> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
[16:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
[16:12] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:12] <jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
[16:12] <jdstrand> We got apparmor 2.6 uploaded before feature freeze. It is currently in NEW because of the new python-libapparmor package -- since I uploaded it, I can't process it so if a listening archive admin wants to take care of it, that would be great.
[16:12] <jdstrand> We have no remaining milestoned features or bugs for alpha-3. We are below the trend line on work items overall.
[16:13] <skaet_> :)
[16:13] <jdstrand> Other than what is in the links, that's it
[16:13] <jdstrand> ..
[16:13] <skaet_> thanks jdstrand.   of the bugs I've got listed in your area that you're interested in - are they the right ones,  or am I missing some?
[16:14] <skaet_> area of the agenda report?
[16:14] <jdstrand> skaet_: let me check
[16:14] <skaet_> jdstrand, thanks!
[16:15] <skaet_> any other questions before I move on while jdstrand is checking?
[16:15] <skaet_> [Topic] Kernel team update - smb
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - smb
[16:15] <smb> Hi there
[16:15] <skaet_> hi
[16:15] <smb> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
[16:15] <smb> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:15] <smb> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:15] <smb> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:15] <smb> We are a bit above the line on the burn-down but that is mostly an artifact of there being so very few specific items for our team.  The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-5.32 (v2.6.38-rc5 based).  Overall we have most of our development out of the way, with just the ecryptfs long filename work ongoing, we are now tracking mainline and fielding issues as they appear.  Mainline progress towards a final release are continuing satisfactorily.  The
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
[16:15] <smb> main concern currently is the vesafb interaction with the intel DRM drivers which is triggering GPU hang reports, this is next weeks focus.
[16:15] <smb> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as below:
[16:15] <smb> #344878 ecryptfs long filename prototype continues to evolve with a second push going to upstream, the on-disk format is not yet agreed and this is highly unlikely to be resolved in time;
[16:15] <smb> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, testing with upstream recommendations are ongoing;
[16:15] <smb> #542660 still present, further upstream testing requested;
[16:15] <smb> #630748 remains waiting on Intel for updated wireless firmware;
[16:15] <smb> #634487 investigations just beginning;
[16:15] <smb> #636091 is looking like a locking issue in USB, possibly to do with the BKL, waiting on reporter; and
[16:16] <smb> #702090 looks to be an interaction with vesafb, upstream are saying "don't do that".
[16:16] <smb> The other "driver" bugs have yet to be reviewed; status will be added to the kernel report next week (first link).
[16:16] <jdstrand> skaet_: you are missing 712662 714908 714958
[16:16] <smb> As people may have noticed, this is the brain dump of apw (who may be able to listen but has too big fingers to type quickly enough on his phone.
[16:16] <smb> ..
[16:16] <skaet_> lol  :)
[16:17] <skaet_> thanks smb.
[16:17] <skaet_> of the bugs listed in the agenda - which are the true blockers in your mind for A3 image release?
[16:18] <skaet_> if there are no other questions for smb,  I'm happy to go on and let him look in the background.
[16:18] <skaet_> other questions?
[16:18] <skaet_> jdstrand,  thanks,  will add them.
[16:18] <smb> skaet_, Will look.
[16:18] <skaet_> smb,  thanks.
[16:19] <skaet_> Topic] Foundations team update - mvo
[16:19] <mvo> I stand in for Colin today to represent the foundations team
[16:19] <mvo> What we did:
[16:19] <mvo> barry release a new computer-janitor; evan worked on /home preservation and a great new partition page in ubiquity; doko packaged python3.2-final and jamvm plus bootstrap work; cjwatson was doing bootstrap work and biosdevname packaging; mvo merged a new apt, uploaded apt-btrfs-snapshot, software-center work and worked on testing python 2.6 -> 2.7 upgrades in the auto-upgrade-tester; jhunt merged all the upstrart work into lp:~upstart-devel/
[16:19] <mvo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:19] <mvo> features for a3:
[16:19] <mvo> packageselection-foundations-n-finish-upstart: in progress, jhunt has a PPA ready
[16:19] <mvo> packageselection-n-network-stack: done, waits on NEW/MIR
[16:19] <mvo> bugs:
[16:19] <mvo>  #638307 - under investigation, needs coordination with debian
[16:19] <mvo>  #684083 - waits for confirmation of the reporter that its fixed (or not)
[16:19] <mvo>  #692691 - only affects grub1, still needs fixing
[16:19] <mvo>  #684703 - packages should update their symbol file to use (c++) tag
[16:19] <mvo>  #709191 - under investigation, could be correupted apt cache file
[16:19] <mvo>  #711896 - looks like a badly timmed upgrade when the archive was in a lot of churn (i.e. the right packages not yet rebuild)
[16:19] <mvo>  #712173 - waits on debug logs
[16:19] <mvo>  #712554 - pitti will look at it
[16:19] <mvo>  #712654 - unclear if its a bug outside of virtualbox
[16:20] <mvo>  #655950 - should get fixed with the new parition screen evan works on
[16:20] <mvo>  #605042 - we need help from someone with a arm board here (ogra?)
[16:20] <mvo>  #634487 - invalid for java
[16:20] <mvo>  #672177 - fixed, just needs uploading
[16:20] <mvo>  #675347 - waiting on upstream, we have a workaround
[16:20] <mvo>  #719129 - under investigation, there is a upstream patch now
[16:20] <mvo> (done)
[16:20] <mvo> we will do some cleanup on the buglist, there are some dubious ones on it really
[16:20] <mvo> (really done now :)
[16:20] <skaet_> thanks mvo  :)
[16:21] <skaet_> can you also let me now asynchronously,  which are the real ones to focus on unsticking for A3.
[16:21] <skaet_> ?
[16:21] <skaet_> I agree there are some dubious ones being turned up on the list right now.  :P
[16:21] <mvo> I guess the grub and ubiquity ones
[16:23] <skaet_> ok,  give me the bug numbers, and I'm probably going to into the agenda and do something to make them stand out, for focus, while we clean up cruft.
[16:23] <skaet_> any other questions for mvo?
[16:23] <mvo> thanks, I will do that async then
[16:23] <skaet_> thanks!  :)
[16:23] <skaet_> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
[16:23] <Daviey> o/
[16:23] <Daviey> == Status ==
[16:23] <Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:23] <Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:24] <Daviey> == Milestoned Bugs ==
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 580319 - Spamaps currently Investigating.
[16:24] <smb> skaet_, Only 702090 seems really of importance
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 590201 - hallyn currently investigating
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 697753 - Will be fixed in next upload
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 711587 - RoAkSoAx investigating
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 517300 - Waiting on upstream to land fix from maverick, then sync.
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 717166 - Daviey working with upstream to resolve
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 724470 - Daviey working on. Good progress
[16:24] <Daviey> bug 600174 - doko pushed a new upstream version to PPA which builds, disecting to find the resolution has been hard.
[16:24] <Daviey> == Work Items / Specs ==
[16:24] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-image-rebundle
[16:24] <Daviey> Outstanding commited work items are purely out of archive documentation work, not restricted by the release schedule.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-containers-in-uec
[16:25] <Daviey> Making good progress, requires some further work, upstream review, merging and a FFe.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-cloud-images
[16:25] <Daviey> Over the hump of the alpha-3 work items, remaining is one is to verify a feature (hopefuly complete today) and secondly a new tool to manipulate the an image, where the FFe is being composed at the moment
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-java-library-housekeeping
[16:25] <Daviey> Remaining work item for A3 is to regress test and file a FFe for a main sync.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-cluster-stack
[16:25] <Daviey> Work items for A-3 complete, or suitably postponed. \o/
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-cloud-init
[16:25] <Daviey> Remaining work items are documentation, out of archive.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-openstack-integration
[16:25] <Daviey> Tracking upstream nicely, awaiting update on dashboard progress - If that makes Natty it will be a universe NEW package.  Possible it might just be a PPA upload.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-containers-finetune
[16:25] <Daviey> Totally complete, \o/
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-hudson
[16:25] <Daviey> Excellent progress, spec is mainly a (complicated!) semi-supported PPA and nearing completion.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-openstack-integration
[16:25] <Daviey> Good progress, appears to be below trend as most of WI are regarding tracking upstream for snapshots.  All Universe related work.
[16:25] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-install-service
[16:25] <Daviey> Making progress, the main assignee has been travelling - but pace should increase soon.
[16:25] <Daviey> == General ==
[16:25] <Daviey> We are making good progress on release critical issues, the primary concern for me at the moment is some of the eucalyptus issues.  The items that appear to be behind trend are largely documentation refresh, or PPA related work items; which are not subject to the relevant freezes - but are still on track for A3 release as a target.  Most of this week we've had a non-functional daily ISO.  We should be expecting more daily testing next week, w
[16:25] <Daviey> hich may uncover more issues - but generally the platform is looking reasonably stable.
[16:26] <Daviey> ...
[16:26] <skaet_> Daviey thanks!   sounding very good indeed.
[16:26] <Daviey> skaet_, groovy!
[16:27] <skaet_> Is the list I've got in the agenda for your bugs, got the important ones on it?
[16:27]  * Daviey rechecks
[16:27] <skaet_> any other questions?
[16:27]  * skaet_ will let Daviey recheck asynch
[16:27] <Daviey> skaet_, I'll make a point of double checking out of band
[16:27] <Daviey> thanks
[16:28] <skaet_> thanks!
[16:28] <skaet_> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
[16:28] <pitti> Blueprint implementation:
[16:28] <pitti> - On track for entire cycle
[16:28] <pitti> - Alpha-3: got close to trend line after some cleanup
[16:28] <pitti>   * a lot is DX integration (which we need to wait on); biggest one is Unity
[16:28] <pitti>   * a11y support, for which there is another code drop planned next Monday, to
[16:28] <pitti>   * close some (not all) WIs the quickly ones are blocked on landing additional
[16:28] <pitti>   * Launchpad API; moved to beta-1 now, will most likely be moved to o-series
[16:28] <pitti> General status:
[16:28] <pitti> - feature development has settled down, working a lot on bug fixes now
[16:28] <pitti> - new Unity/Compiz/nux releases caused some temporary archive breakage, but settled now
[16:28] <pitti> - new LibreOffice 3.3.1 microrelease uploaded; part of it is bringing back the Human icons
[16:28] <pitti> - utouch stack is in main now
[16:28] <pitti> RC bug status: details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
[16:28] <pitti> - most of them are coming in and get fixed without much noise, but these two are worth calling out:
[16:28] <pitti> - bug 710582: getting behind; asked Robert about the status, will get some extra hands on Monday if he doesn't have time
[16:28] <pitti> - bug 637827: still no response from Mozilla despite repeated poking
[16:29] <pitti> There's one thing I'd like to discuss and point out here:
[16:29] <pitti> we currently have swt-gtk in main, since eucalyptus builds against it; however, it's not really maintained, and uses the old xulrunner-1.9.2, which we must remove from main (and possibly from the archive)
[16:29] <pitti> the best thing would be if we could drop eucalyptus' dependency on swt-gtk (it doesn't have a GTKish frontend anyway, does it?); Daviey, is there any chance we could do this?
[16:29] <pitti> alternatively swt-gtk needs to be ported to xulrunner-2.0; Chris already looked at this, but it's a huge task, and neither the current nor the ported version actually work; we don't have a Java specialist in the desktop team, so if this should be done, we need help for this
[16:29] <pitti> ..
[16:29] <skaet_> thanks pitti!
[16:29] <pitti> (sorry for the broken enumeration in the first part)
[16:29] <pitti> skaet_: as for A3 blocker, that's mainly #710582
[16:29] <Daviey> pitti, I had a couple of outstanding questions with chrisccoulson... I should have chased them
[16:30] <pitti> we'll open a bug report about this now, to track/discuss the issue
[16:30] <Daviey> pitti, If i can have a swt-gtk package built without xulrunner, would make things much easier to regress test.
[16:30] <skaet_> pitti,  am in awe of your burndown chart record this release.... very impressive.
[16:30] <pitti> Daviey: are we going to keep euca for natty, or will we move to openstack?
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> Daviey, the issue with that is it breaks eclipse :(
[16:30] <Daviey> (ideally one that works on *maverick*, natty euca platform is too unstable to check it against)
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> (eclipse is using the browser part of swt-gtk)
[16:31] <Daviey> pitti, openstack is purely universe for this release
[16:31] <pitti> Daviey: does euca actually use anything desktop-ish? I thought it was a web frontend
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> i don't really care about the other packages that are using the browser part of swt-gtk (vuze, tuxguitar etc), but if I break eclipse then I will be very unpopular
[16:31] <Daviey> pitti, it is purely web based
[16:31] <pitti> Daviey: right, that made me wonder why it needs gtk at all
[16:31] <Daviey> pitti, but note, that the gwt library is an abused version.
[16:32] <Daviey> (as in, heavily modified... and everyone is scared to touch it.)
[16:32] <pitti> it should also be noted, if we go the porting route, this will need to happen every three months
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> which is why i want to get xulrunner out of main :)
[16:33] <Daviey> chrisccoulson / pitti: other than supporting xulrunner in main, what is the main gain for this work?
[16:34] <pitti> Daviey: that very; xulrunner API/ABI will change every three months now, and thus we get rid of it where we can
[16:34] <Daviey> Oh i see
[16:35] <pitti> it'll also help to reduce some space on the server CDs, but that's secondary
[16:35] <Daviey> pitti / chrisccoulson: if you can get be a package built without xulrunner, i'll make sure it's tested
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> also, having it in main implies a commitment to support it for the life of an ubuntu release
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> which is going to be difficult
[16:35] <pitti> Daviey: I'm afraid we dont know euca at all
[16:35] <Daviey> pitti, oh, not expecting you to touch euca! :)
[16:35] <pitti> this was brought into main for euca
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> we already backported 1.9.2 to all supported ubuntu releases (to replace the obsolete 1.9), and that was a significant amount of work
[16:35] <Daviey> pitti, i mean, a swt-gtk package built without xulrunner
[16:36] <Daviey> Or have i missunderstood the predicament?
[16:36] <pitti> Daviey: we can't
[16:36] <chrisccoulson> doing that every few months on 4-5 supported ubuntu releases is basically a full-time job ;)
[16:36] <pitti> Daviey: swt-gtk needs xulrunner
[16:36] <pitti> Daviey: the question is to drop swt-gtk from euca
[16:36] <Daviey> Ahhhhh!
[16:36] <Daviey> Okay... i didn't understand the issue correctly.. sorry
[16:36] <pitti> since euca doesn't actually seem to need any GTK/SWT stuff (being a server/web frontend app)
[16:37] <Daviey> pitti, I'll test a maverick euca cloud without swt-gtk, and therefore xulrunner this week
[16:37] <Daviey> I'll update the bug that is about to be raised :)
[16:37] <pitti> Daviey: great, many thanks
[16:37] <skaet_> cool.
[16:37] <Daviey> maverick being a working platform is a better comparison
[16:37] <skaet_> pitti,  thanks for highlighting the A3 blocker,  will make sure its left highlighted in the scrubbing.
[16:37] <skaet_> any other questions for pitti?
[16:38] <skaet_> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
[16:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
[16:38] <joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
[16:38] <joshuahoover> details on where we're at with blueprints and releases are in the link above
[16:38] <joshuahoover> we nearly got everything in prior to feature freeze yesterday but missed a (relatively small) feature that we'd still like to get in for notifying users they've exceeded their quota, which is made up of 3 tasks: bug #702172 #702176 #702183
[16:38] <joshuahoover> i haven't filed the exception yet as we're seeing if we can have it ready by tuesday, if we can't then we're not going to try to get the freeze exception
[16:39] <joshuahoover> early next week we're reviewing ui changes and finalizing them so we hit ui and string freezes
[16:39] <joshuahoover> we're now busy prioritizing u1 bugs to fix since new features are complete...i should have an updated list on our release status page by next meeting
[16:39] <joshuahoover> and that's it for this week for u1 - questions?
[16:39] <joshuahoover> ..
[16:39] <skaet_> thanks joshuahoover!
[16:40] <skaet_> are the bugs I've got listed on the agenda matching up with the ones you're focusing on?
[16:40] <joshuahoover> skaet_: yes, plus possibly others :)
[16:41] <skaet_> joshuahoover, cool.   let me know the others asynch.
[16:41] <skaet_> any that you consider blockers for releasing A3 at this point?
[16:42] <joshuahoover> skaet_: no
[16:42] <skaet_> cool.   just wanted to double check.
[16:42] <skaet_> any other questions?
[16:42] <skaet_> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
[16:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
[16:42]  * skaet_ looks around and sees that Riddel is away on the status... anyone else from Kubuntu?
[16:43] <debfx> shadeslayer: ^
[16:43] <Riddell> hi
[16:43] <Riddell>  * kdebindings now compiling on ARM, hopefully the rest of the KDE packages will be able to compile on ARM once that's done
[16:43] <Riddell>  * qt broken on ARM due to multitouch patch and for some reason has started using egl bug #724867 fixing now being tested
[16:43] <Riddell>  * we were due to get upstream 4.6.1 tars yesterday but confusions in the git transition have delayed, looks like we'll end up having some different source tars for 4.6.1
[16:43] <Riddell>  * CDs building and not oversized (except PPC)
[16:43] <Riddell>  * 11 bugs milestoned for alpha 3 http://goo.gl/yGhJd
[16:43] <Riddell>  * Desired features are in, no notable FFes expected https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[16:44]  * skaet_ happy to see no notable FFes expected
[16:45] <skaet_> ..?
[16:45] <Riddell> ..
[16:45] <skaet_> thanks Riddell.   Any of the bugs listed in the Agenda true blockers for A3 in your opinion?
[16:46] <Riddell> no, nothing I expect to be a blocker
[16:46] <skaet_> thanks!  good to hear.
[16:46] <skaet_> any other questions?
[16:47] <skaet_> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
[16:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
[16:47] <dbarth> hi, the report is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus#preview as usual
[16:47] <dbarth> of note this week
[16:47] <dbarth> unity 3.4.6 released, including 31 new features or bug fixes: https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.4.6
[16:47] <dbarth> compiz 0.9. released as well
[16:47] <dbarth> we also received beta versions of proprietary drivers to continue testing (and developing!) unity: thanks for the xorg team and vendors
[16:47] <dbarth> on the unity foundations front:
[16:47] <shadeslayer> darn
[16:47] <dbarth> final installment of libunity, with the additional soundmenu API
[16:47] <dbarth> datetime indicator upload late, scheduled for monday now: features a new prefs dialog with a timezone selector; calendar monitor supporting remote cals as well
[16:47] <dbarth> Even more appmenu fixes from the amazing mterry and chriscoulson
[16:47] <dbarth> LibreOffice making its way into natty/universe
[16:47] <dbarth> gir introspection issues resolved, which provides python bindings and a new call documentation set
[16:48] <shadeslayer> sorry Riddell ... :(
[16:48] <dbarth> qa, alex is full on bug triaging
[16:48] <dbarth> and provided the HW cert team with the autopilot tool
[16:48] <dbarth> bug status
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:175874 - Bug, not feature, for monday
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:657771 - Bug, not feature, next week
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:663030 - mterry is on it
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:676166 - just received beta drivers, work resumed on investigating it
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:685682 - same
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:686698 - same
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:689179 - assigned to ted
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:690537 - asked for more info
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:692823 - Incomplete
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:694596 - Dupe of multi-monitor bug, not released but ready for trunk merge
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:706754 - fixed
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:708188 - assigned to ted
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:709138 - fixed
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:709380 - fixed
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:711749 - assigned to mterry
[16:48] <dbarth> Bug:711378 - assigned to smspillaz
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:711916 - assigned to jay
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:711916 - assigned to smspillaz
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:720895 - assigned to chriscoulson
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:722298 - fixed
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:723014 - assigned to sam
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:723873 - confusing
[16:49] <dbarth> Bug:724093 - assigned to sam
[16:49] <dbarth> (sorry for the spam)
[16:49]  * skaet_ appreciates the details.  thanks
[16:49] <dbarth> we'll have some ffes but the exact list will depend on how much we can still pass on monday for the ultimate upload window we've negotiated with didrocks
[16:49] <dbarth> before the final feature freeze curtain comes down
[16:50] <dbarth> we keep getting a lot of help from platform
[16:50] <dbarth> i want to highlight the contributions of mterry and chriscoulson this week in particular
[16:50] <skaet_> :)
[16:50] <dbarth> but the usual suspects haven't slowed down helping us as well
[16:50] <dbarth> didrocks, we love you
[16:51] <dbarth> ...
[16:51] <skaet_> thanks dbarth!
[16:51] <dbarth> questions?
[16:51] <skaet_> can you please let me know before you're dropping packages on monday?
[16:52] <dbarth> for the ffes? yes, will do
[16:52] <skaet_> dbarth, thanks.
[16:52] <skaet_> also,  which of the bugs we have right now, do you consider true A3 blockers?
[16:53]  * skaet_ wants to make sure the dependency chains resolve out.
[16:53] <skaet_> dbarth, feel fee to think about it asych
[16:53] <dbarth> ah
[16:53] <skaet_> s/fee/free/ even.:P
[16:54] <dbarth> thinking
[16:54] <skaet_> any other questions for dbarth before we move on?
[16:54] <skaet_> [Topic] ARM team update - rsalveti
[16:54] <dbarth> (asynchronously, let the other teams pass, that may take some time)
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - rsalveti
[16:55] <rsalveti> Status is at:
[16:55] <rsalveti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[16:55] <rsalveti> ..
[16:55] <rsalveti> Summary:
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * 705689 is still waiting for a gcc upload, this bug now also affects KDE, QT has a workaround that will be dropped.
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * TI is preparing a kernel pull request for OMAP 4, adding support for DVI, Wlan, audio and syslink/tiler, should hit us on monday (too close to be the default one for Alpha 3, but we'll try)
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * SGX GLES driver for natty was updated to 1.7, a lot more stable than previous release (still at the TI PPA)
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * WI work progressing well, but some FFe will probably be needed
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * Jasper rewrite BP is basically done, with plymouth since first boot! Just need more testing.
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * Mono ARM SMP support is done upstream, testing is on going and then backport is needed to fix the mono issues with Pandaboard.
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * Unity-2D was updated to latest available release.
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * python-qt4 FTBS is fixed, should help clean KDE again.
[16:55] <rsalveti> ..
[16:55] <rsalveti> Image status:
[16:55] <rsalveti>  * Current builds are failing due to unity FTBFS which fails due to some non arch independend casting, bug is being inspected
[16:55] <rsalveti> ..
[16:55] <rsalveti> Specs:
[16:55] <rsalveti> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[16:55] <rsalveti> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[16:55] <rsalveti> ..
[16:55] <rsalveti> Serious Bugs:
[16:55] <rsalveti> bug 705689
[16:55] <rsalveti> ..
[16:56] <rsalveti> the only real blocker issue for A3 now is the unity ftbfs
[16:56] <rsalveti> that we're looking at it already
[16:56] <rsalveti> probably the same issue we had with nux
[16:56] <dbarth> rsalveti: the nux pb?
[16:56] <dbarth> right
[16:57] <skaet_> thanks rsalveti!   what's the bug number for the unity FTBFS?
[16:57] <rsalveti> other than that it seems we're fine for a3
[16:57] <rsalveti> skaet_: we don't have it yet
[16:57] <rsalveti> just saw it before the meeting
[16:57] <rsalveti> will fill one and let you know about it
[16:57] <skaet_> rsalveti, heh,  real time status indeed.  :)
[16:57] <skaet_> thanks!
[16:57] <rsalveti> np
[16:57] <rsalveti> ..
[16:57] <skaet_> any other question?
[16:58] <skaet_> [Topic] MOTU team update
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update
[16:58] <skaet_> ScottK isn't able to make it today,  anyone else here?
[16:58]  * pitti has to disappear, sorry
[16:59] <skaet_> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
[16:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
[16:59]  * skaet_ looks around for JamieBennett?
[17:00] <skaet_> [Topic] any other new business/kudos/comments/questions?
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other new business/kudos/comments/questions?
[17:00] <skaet_> doko?
[17:00] <doko> when to take a snapshot for another (the last) test rebuild, such that there is no major Gnome or KDE update ongoing, and almost nothing broken
[17:01] <doko> that should be with enough time to fix things, but late enough, that most of the packages do build
[17:02] <doko> ahh, pitti left, so Riddell ?
[17:02] <skaet_> hmm,  we just lost pitti,  anyone else from desktop have an opinion on the Gnome?
[17:02] <skaet_> Riddell?
[17:03] <skaet_> doko,  how about I give them an action to come back to you with a time ;)
[17:03] <doko> skaet_: ok, thanks
[17:04] <skaet_> [ACTION] pitti, Riddell - advise doko of recommended timing for snapshot test rebuild including Gnome and KDE close to final.
[17:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti, Riddell - advise doko of recommended timing for snapshot test rebuild including Gnome and KDE close to final.
[17:04] <skaet_> ok?
[17:04] <skaet_> any one else have questions/comments?
[17:05] <skaet_> Thank you to all the teams for the awesome amount of work getting those last features in.   Very impressive!
[17:05] <skaet_> and on that note...
[17:05] <skaet_> #endmeeting
[17:05] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:05.
[17:05] <marjo> skaet_ thx!
[17:06] <skaet_> thank you marjo, jibel, hggdh, ara, jdstrand, smb, apw, mvo, pitti, Daviey,  joshuahoover, dbarth, rsalvetti, doko
[17:06] <ara> thanks skaet_!
[17:06] <doko> thanks
[17:06] <rsalveti> skaet_: the unity ftbfs: bug 724615
[17:06] <rsalveti> skaet_: and thanks :-)
[17:06] <mvo> hanks
[17:06] <skaet_> thanks rsalveti,  noted. :)
[17:08] <joshuahoover> thanks skaet_
[18:58] <AlanBell> hi all
[18:58] <AlanBell> Ubuntu For All meeting will start here shortly
[19:00] <hakimsheriff> AlanBell, Hi
[19:00] <AlanBell> #startmeeting
[19:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is AlanBell.
[19:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:01] <AlanBell> hi everyone
[19:01] <AlanBell> who is here for the Ubuntu For All kickoff meeting?
[19:01] <michaelwigle> Me.
[19:01] <Pendulum> o/
[19:01] <Mkaysi> o/
[19:01] <michaelwigle> o/
[19:02] <leoquant> o/
[19:02] <michaelwigle> Although, sadly, I had a meeting conflict and will have to bail in about 10-15 minutes
[19:02] <AlanBell> ok
[19:03] <AlanBell> I was expecting a few more folk to join, but that is OK
[19:03] <AlanBell> we will probably pick up a few as we go along
[19:03] <michaelwigle> Yeah, 5 seems a little low...
[19:04] <Pendulum> I know there's someone who would have wanted to be here who's sick
[19:04] <AlanBell> ok, well I want to go through the agenda anyway, we can always get further discussion going on the mailing list afterwards
[19:05] <AlanBell> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll/Meeting
[19:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll/Meeting
[19:05] <AlanBell> [TOPIC] Purpose and scope of the team
[19:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Purpose and scope of the team
[19:05] <AlanBell> ok, so this team is an idea that has been kicking about for a number of years
[19:06] <AlanBell> elky put together an area on the ubuntu wiki at
[19:06] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll
[19:06] <AlanBell> and started to define the project, and I picked that up some months ago
[19:06] <hakimsheriff> Im here
[19:06] <AlanBell> the way I would like to see it, is as a kind of support team
[19:06] <hakimsheriff> sorry I was busy
[19:06] <AlanBell> the way I wouldn't like to see it is as a governance council
[19:07] <AlanBell> we have enough of them alreadh
[19:07] <AlanBell> already
[19:07] <AlanBell> the idea is to gather together all of the existing Ubuntu teams that address issues of diversity, equality and outreach
[19:08] <AlanBell> each in different ways to a different target group of Ubuntu users
[19:08] <AlanBell> the somewhat tentative list of supported projects is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll/ProjectList
[19:09] <AlanBell> different projects are at different levels ranging from very active to dormant, or not started
[19:09] <AlanBell> I would like to see this team helping each of the projects in the list to maintain their desired level of activity
[19:09] <AlanBell> (which could well be dormant)
[19:10] <AlanBell> so we would provide some level of ensuring continuity, helping make sure meeting schedules were working
[19:10] <AlanBell> team reports done each month if the team wants to do such things
[19:10] <AlanBell> and generally being an available resource for support tasks
[19:11] <AlanBell> does this make sense so far?
[19:11] <hakimsheriff> Yes, Of Course!
[19:11] <Pendulum> yes
[19:11] <Mkaysi> Yes
[19:11] <AlanBell> what do you think of the project list?
[19:12] <AlanBell> any more to add to it?
[19:12] <AlanBell> any that shouldn't be there?
[19:13] <michaelwigle> Not that I can think. Miind you, my focus is more toward the accessibility aspects.
[19:13] <Pendulum> michaelwigle: oh good! come join us in #ubuntu-accessibility :)
[19:13] <AlanBell> yes, I would expect many people to have a particular focus
[19:13] <hakimsheriff> I would think the list is small but since the team is just starting out it think it is good
[19:14] <AlanBell> however it is also a way to get people who don't fit into any of the target demographics to feel that they can contribute to those teams
[19:14] <Pendulum> :)
[19:14] <michaelwigle> I intend on doing that as well. Just not today.
[19:15] <michaelwigle> Sorry, have to run but will try to keep up through the mailing list. I couldn't move this other appointment.
[19:15] <AlanBell> ok, thanks for your time michaelwigle
[19:16] <AlanBell> ok, so I think if we are in rough agreement on the purpose of the team (helping the teams) and the scope (the list of teams) then we could move on to the next topic
[19:16] <hakimsheriff> I sugest you read the meeting logs
[19:17] <AlanBell> I will put the logs on the wiki and mail the list
[19:17] <AlanBell> [TOPIC] Activities we can do
[19:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Activities we can do
[19:17] <AlanBell> so I have a little list of things, quite willing to have stuff added to it
[19:18] <AlanBell> ensuring meeting schedules of the teams that have meetings don't drift
[19:18] <hakimsheriff> btw... hakimsheriff = hakimsheriff2 same person different devices
[19:19] <AlanBell> meetings do get missed from time to time, but if multiple scheduled meetings in a row don't happen then we should help get that back on track
[19:19] <hakimsheriff> yes that is important
[19:19] <AlanBell> monthly team reports, reminding the teams to do them, and helping fill them out as required
[19:20] <AlanBell> one thing I already do is maintain some monthly statistics for the Ubuntu Women team, that is the kind of activity I can see this team doing
[19:20] <AlanBell> open to other ideas at this point
[19:21] <Pendulum> I know as a team leader for one of the teams involved, I'd love it if U4A could help with raising profiles of teams
[19:21] <hakimsheriff> Pendulum, You said it as I was typing!!!
[19:21] <AlanBell> yes indeed
[19:21] <Pendulum> there's only so many times AlanBell or I can blog about a11y without people just ignoring it, for example ;)
[19:22] <hakimsheriff> Help raising profiles of new teams too
[19:22] <AlanBell> and possibly helping to form new teams
[19:22] <AlanBell> I did have an idea of an Ubuntu Younglings project, for children of known community members
[19:23] <hakimsheriff> Do teens count as well?
[19:23] <hakimsheriff> or just children
[19:23] <AlanBell> there is the ubuntu youth team for that
[19:24] <hakimsheriff> I would really like to help out with the Younglings Project
[19:24] <AlanBell> the -youth project is one where continuity issues are inherent
[19:25] <AlanBell> so easy for a bunch of enthusiastic members to leave as a school year starts or ends
[19:26] <AlanBell> but other teams can also go quiet for long periods, a11y did for a time
[19:26] <AlanBell> any more activities?
[19:27] <AlanBell> oh, I will chuck one in to discuss
[19:27] <hakimsheriff> I am a bit lost what is a11y?
[19:27] <AlanBell> accessibility
[19:27] <maco> hakimsheriff: abreviation for accessibility
[19:27] <AlanBell> there are 11 letters between a and y
[19:27] <hakimsheriff> creative, i like it!
[19:28] <AlanBell> internationalisation also gets abbreviated to 118n
[19:28] <maco> i18n you mean
[19:28] <maco> and localisation is l10n
[19:28] <AlanBell> yup
[19:28] <AlanBell> hi maco
[19:28] <maco> hello. i'm at work. don't mind me
[19:29] <AlanBell> there has been a bunch of recent discussions about UDS and the diversity and harassment policies
[19:29] <AlanBell> I can see that as something that this team might end up getting involved in for the next UDS, but not this one coming
[19:29] <AlanBell> too soon, too new
[19:30] <AlanBell> although I know some individuals have be involved in it already
[19:31] <AlanBell> any other activities to discuss?
[19:31] <AlanBell> anything you think we shouldn't do?
[19:31] <leoquant> noisy  hakimsheriff
[19:32] <leoquant> ツ
[19:32] <hakimsheriff> sorry, I am trying to connect my phone to the IRC channel so I can use the text-to-speech on my phone So I don't have to constatnly be on this channel.
[19:33] <AlanBell> ok, lets move on to the last topic
[19:33] <AlanBell> [TOPIC] Resources for the team Wiki/IRC/Mailing list
[19:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Resources for the team Wiki/IRC/Mailing list
[19:33] <AlanBell> so this one is just a list really
[19:33] <AlanBell> we have the IRC channel #ubuntu-for-all
[19:34] <AlanBell> we have a mailing list
[19:34] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-for-all
[19:35] <AlanBell> a chunk of the slowest wiki in the worldhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll
[19:35] <Mkaysi> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll
[19:36] <AlanBell> thanks Mkaysi, and the launchpad team at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-for-all
[19:36] <AlanBell> is there anything else you would see as useful?
[19:37] <hakimsheriff> nothing that I know of
[19:37] <AlanBell> ok, does anyone have any other topics they would like to raise for discussion?
[19:38] <hakimsheriff> We should raise the profile of this team
[19:38] <hakimsheriff> Not many members yet
[19:38] <AlanBell> I will blog about it, there are more members than are here at the moment
[19:38] <hakimsheriff> What's your blog?
[19:38] <AlanBell> 15 in the IRC channel and more on the mailing list
[19:39] <AlanBell> it will be on planet.ubuntu.com
[19:39] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/author/alanbell/
[19:39] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.theopensourcerer.com/author/alanbell/
[19:39] <AlanBell> my main personal blog
[19:40] <AlanBell> I don't imagine this will become a high profile team in itself really, but yes some more members would be good
[19:41] <AlanBell> any more to cover?
[19:41] <AlanBell> in which case, thanks for your time everyone, I will mail the list with minutes later for wider discussion
[19:42] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[19:42] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:42.
[19:42] <leoquant> thank you AlanBell
[19:43] <AlanBell> also feel free to continue discussions in the #ubuntu-for-all channel